I am curious what is an average speed for an aggressive D/R longbow with an arrow that weighs 11 gpp? One of my bows is shooting 171 fps and another one with similar design is shooting 154 fps. Can limb materials make this much of a difference?
I'm not quite at 11 gpp with my Kanati, 10.32 gpp, but I got an average of 175 fps with it the other day. I thought that was great for a 46# bow and 10+ gpp. The Kanati has Actionboo limbs under clear glass. I think limb material can make quite a difference as can limb design.
Your 171 fps sounds pretty darn good to me. I always thought the Kanati was pretty quick. Now that I have a chronograph, I have confirmed that. I was drawing 28" and using a cordovan tab, but my shots were very consistent speed-wise. In fact, when I shot my RER XR, I think the first three shots were exactly the same speed, and it never varied more than 2 fps.
My first couple of shots with the Kanati were 171 fps, but I hadn't warmed up at all first, so I probably drew short on those. Once I warmed up, the shots were again within 2 fps.
According to the tests of Pete Ward The Caribow Peregrine delivers 178 fps at 11 GPP (with a 10 strands string)So I think you're smokin' fast!
I don't think limb materials make much difference, but a different design sure does!
My specs are in my signature below. 11.3 gpp and wool puff string silencers. I have a relatively short draw length. Makes a big difference.
QuoteOriginally posted by JamesKerr:
I am curious what is an average speed for an aggressive D/R longbow with an arrow that weighs 11 gpp? One of my bows is shooting 171 fps and another one with similar design is shooting 154 fps. Can limb materials make this much of a difference?
Which bows are they?
I've only chrono'd a couple of bows, but they were aggressive R/D bows and all shot between 165 and 175 with arrows between 9 and 12 gpp.
Nativestranger the one that is faster is a tomahawk diamond series ss and the other is a tomahawk legacy series
WHY? Worry about speed, that is. Worry about where the arrow hits, that is of greater importance.
Just an old dinasouar thinking out loud!
QuoteOriginally posted by JAG:
WHY? Worry about speed, that is. Worry about where the arrow hits, that is of greater importance.
Just an old dinasouar thinking out loud!
He said he was just CURIOUS, not worried about it.
Why do some get bent out of shape when someone mentions the word speed? Nothing wrong with a fast bow, is there? One doesn't have to shoot a light arrow in a fast bow. A fast bow also shoots a heavy arrow with more authority than a slower, less efficient bow.
Just sayin'.
Not bent out of shape. Just curious as to why some folks are curious so much about speed!
Like I said just an old dinasouar thinking out loud. If I hurt your feelings, my apologies!!(can't spell either)
Johnny/JAG
Arrow speed interests me, just as does bullet speed. I have a chrony, so I play with it. However, I don't ever remember even contemplating either arrow speed or bullet speed when game was in sight. Accuracy interests me waaaaay more than does speed. One thing I've found about chronographing arrows, though, is that tiny variations in form and release can make huge velocity differences.
Anymore unless a bow is shot through a machine with no human error involved and with really good artifical lighting and preferably double chronograph from 4 ft. I pay not attention to any speed anyone mentions. There are as Andy says , so many variables/ human, lighting,. ect that its almost useless even is one person is doing the testing and doing his best/ The 171 sounds good, the other not great but good nuff to hunt with/
God bless you all, Steve
No offense taken guys I am just curious as both of these bows are toted as being high performance bows and one is quite a bit faster than the other. My take on speed is that it's not the most important thing at all but when you can pick up two different bows and shoot them equally well why not shoot the faster one.
QuoteOriginally posted by Flying Dutchman:
According to the tests of Pete Ward The Caribow Peregrine delivers 178 fps at 11 GPP (with a 10 strands string)So I thaink you're smokin' fast!
I don't think limb materials make much difference, but a different design sure does!
178 is really good for 11gpp. Does the Peregrine have carbon laminates in the limbs?
No, Peregrines have a limb core made of action boo.
QuoteOriginally posted by JAG:
Not bent out of shape. Just curious as to why some folks are curious so much about speed!
Like I said just an old dinasouar thinking out loud. If I hurt your feelings, my apologies!!(can't spell either)
Johnny/JAG
No hurt feelings here. Okay, maybe you're not bent out of shape, so my apologies there.
Originally you said "worried about speed" instead of "curious about speed". Big difference. I just don't think that when people talk about speed in a trad bow that they're worried about it, just interested or curious about it. ;) :archer2:
The interesting thing to me about speed posts. There's just about as many or maybe more posts about deer jumping the string and being quicker than Superman. Then about as many or more about how fast your bow is doesn't really matter.
I would think bow speed matters very much if you deer hunt. It does to me.
QuoteCan limb materials make this much of a difference?
James,
To answer your questions without getting off on a tangent. There is no average speed for an aggressive R/D longbow, and limb material is just one part of the equation.
The shape of the limb typically dictates energy storage capability. The type of materials used in the limb can effect energy storage too in some cases, and will effect the mass weight of the limb.
There are lot of factors involved that dictate how much of the stored energy gets transferred to the arrow shaft.
You can have two bows at identical draw weights with "aggressive" looking reflex to the limbs that easily shoot 20 fps difference. actually you don't need a chrono to see the difference either. just step back to 30 - 40 yards and see which arrow is still in the target, and which one is in the dirt..... There are many archery hunters that prefer a flat trajectory that increases their accuracy at longer yardage.
But Of course..... everyone knows "Speed doesn't matter" :rolleyes:
"But Of course..... everyone knows "Speed doesn't matter"
LOL...good quote
I don;t have a chronograph and have never used one, but I do care about speed. I care most about accuracy and lethality in hunting situations. But as it turns out speed does have an influence on that. I like to shoot really heavy arrows and I shoot light poundage bows...the difference between a faster bow and a slower bow really effects where my arrows hit and what I can get away with in terms of high GPP.
I think about it as efficiency (which is something I like). If I am going to be pulling 45 lbs either way of course I want a bow that is going to do MORE with the 45lbs then less. I really don't want to be shooting a bow that is heavier unless I'm actually getting more energy going where I want it.
QuoteOriginally posted by Kirkll:
QuoteCan limb materials make this much of a difference?
James,
To answer your questions without getting off on a tangent. There is no average speed for an aggressive R/D longbow, and limb material is just one part of the equation.
The shape of the limb typically dictates energy storage capability. The type of materials used in the limb can effect energy storage too in some cases, and will effect the mass weight of the limb.
There are lot of factors involved that dictate how much of the stored energy gets transferred to the arrow shaft.
You can have two bows at identical draw weights with "aggressive" looking reflex to the limbs that easily shoot 20 fps difference. actually you don't need a chrono to see the difference either. just step back to 30 - 40 yards and see which arrow is still in the target, and which one is in the dirt..... There are many archery hunters that prefer a flat trajectory that increases their accuracy at longer yardage.
But Of course..... everyone knows "Speed doesn't matter" :rolleyes: [/b]
Great post. What makes a bow more efficient than another with light arrows given the same energy storage? Are carbon foam limbs far better than regular wood glass limbs? How about narrow longbow limbs vs wide recurve limbs?
We took our bows to a shop with a chronograph to test our bows. Some of the numbers came in high, I think, and some came in lower. The testing told us more about our release than all that much about our bows; a hard release is not only more accurate for me, but it also delivers a much faster arrow. I was surprised how often my release was soft. I will say that a certain longbow that I had at the time shot the same arrow slower than my wife's Lost Creek by enough of a margin to make me sell it. It bothered me that I was pulling that much more weight and getting a slower shot with the same arrow. It also bothered me that such a light spined arrow could fly so perfect out of that bow. Funny thing, I suspected my wife had me on the fps thing and that my arrows may have been a bit over spined with that bow, but once I saw those numbers, that was it. I was also relieved to find that my remaining three Hill style bows and my Robertson longbows are not lacking in speed, relative to my wife's bow, but then she is shooting about 11.5 gpp compared to my 9.5 to 10.5 gpp with my bows.
QuoteOriginally posted by duncan idaho:
"But Of course..... everyone knows "Speed doesn't matter"
LOL...good quote
better yet,
speed don't kill. :saywhat:
i got caught up in experimenting with all my bows and speed tests...while it was fun to play it was VERY frustrating. I could not control the "little" differences in form between bows and did get some strange results. Bottom line if you really want to know sent your bow to Kirk and let him put it on the machine to test it.
mike
Not being mean or triing to say something is all important but speed does matter in a way. The reason for the bow is to throw the arrow faster then you can throw it by hand.
QuoteWhat makes a bow more efficient than another with light arrows given the same energy storage? Are carbon foam limbs far better than regular wood glass limbs? How about narrow longbow limbs vs wide recurve limbs?
I've got to try and answer this question even though we are drifting out on the tangent a bit here. :p
What makes a bow more efficient using light weight arrows over the next bow, is typically being able to stop the mass weight of the limb moving forward clean and transfer more energy to the shaft.
Carbon /foam limbs are much more desirable to some discriminating archers.... they can feel the difference and they do perform very well. but to say that they are "far better than regular wood glass limbs." would be a stretch.... A great comparison would be a bamboo fly rod vs a top of the line graphite rod.... both catch fish, but there is a world of difference in the feel, and the actual performance..... but by golly you'll always have guys that swear by those old bamboo buggy whips.
A guy could write a book or two on LB vs RC limbs comparisons, so i'm not going there. The highest performing bow in the world is going to be a very narrow limb static tip recurve bow. IMO
There is a large difference in measuring the "efficiency of the bow itself" and "How efficient the arrow cast is compared to the stored energy in the draw cycle." you can increase any bows efficiency by shooting heavier shafts. but some of these, heaven forbid "Faster bows" will shoot those heavier shafts a lot with a lot flatter trajectory, and hit a lot harder..... THAT is good stuff for any archery hunter....it's still your responsibility to put the arrow where it needs to go.... But the straightest distance between two points is.... A flat line.... or is that one word as in "Flatliner" :saywhat:
For those of you that are not interested in exploring the details regarding the complex nature of what a bow is really doing, or care about the advanced physics involved.... that's cool... but keep in mind here.....there are many Trad bowhunter's out there there that find it fascinating and are interested in guys willing to do the prototyping and raise the bar a bit in terms of performance.....
Some of these sarcastic remarks about arrow speed being unimportant get old.... but those same guys are probably saying the same thing about arrow speed threads...LOL! Gotta love it!
Core material can be a big factor in speed. Also, for comparison your draw length should be noted. At 26" I don't get anywhere near by partner even tho my bow is heavier.
Also, two bows can be made to the same design by the same bowyer and still come out different. The materials are not homogenous and differences are impossible to detect.
I hunt mostly out west on the ground and speed is a big deal to me. It helps extend my range and reduces my misses.
54 pounds at 26 inches my bow is 150 fps. The boe is a Pronghorn
QuoteOriginally posted by JamesKerr:
I am curious what is an average speed for an aggressive D/R longbow with an arrow that weighs 11 gpp? One of my bows is shooting 171 fps and another one with similar design is shooting 154 fps. Can limb materials make this much of a difference?
You bet it can, I have found the same, had some shoot over 10 fps slower than others and the faster one is a little less weight. I would like to get the most reward for the weight I pull, regardless of what that is. Trial and error or asking others might save some money. Nothing wrong with slower but faster sure is nice
If one has two bows that have the same feel, the same length, the same accuracy, and the both quiet, but one is way faster. The slower bow will get dusty or sold. However, that feel thing and how one gets off a shot when hunting can make a huge difference. I had a BW metal handle takedown years ago. I had a longer draw form with it, I fixed the cold hand problem by coating the grip, I could shoot tight groups at long range with it. However, I could not use that form at odd shooting angles and I was always distracted by the balance of the bow when not shooting. My fix was to shoot with a shorter draw length and to shoot bows with better balance. If one has a shorter draw some bows will perform better than others. Some bows seem to drop off at shorter draw, even if at 28" that particular bow may have been quicker. I imagine that there are a number of variables involved and different designs will have different mechanics that apply.