Iam thinking on asking local club to sponsor a trad. shoot. I would like to do Fred Bear scoring. Can anyone explain the scoring, I'v forgotten. Thanks
There is a ton of information on it if you Google it. But anyway, here it is.
**PLEASE NO OF SITE FORUM LINKS**
10, 8, -5, 0
Any wound, outside the kill zone is minus 5 points.
Bisch
That's how we use to keep score. Can't understand why you get 5 points for a wound.
Thanks alot fellow archers. I feel the same barebow17 about getting 5pts, for a wound.
" MINUS" 5 points
Where do you hit to get 0 points
A miss should be -0- points. I believe I shot with that scoring system up at Sugar Hill in NY.
Shick
I like that minus five for a non kill shot. I always had a hard time why you should be awarded 5 points for a wounding shot.
Good Shooting,
Craig
You get 5 points for a "wounding" shot because 3D is a game of target shooting, not hunting. You don't get a minus score on a bullseye target once your beyond the 7 ring do you.
Everybody can set up their own course as they see fit but it's still a target match if your scoring it.
Forgive me if my opinion seems shallow or entirely inaccurate,
I feel that a 5-point penalty is justified for a wounding shot.
Let's put this in a hunting scenario.
I find it more comforting to know that my prey is down with minimal pain and suffering. A wounding shot only serves to prolong it's imminent death. I think it's not right to shoot to wound, shooting to kill is more ethical and moral.
Wound you rather die with 1 stroke of the knife or letting yourself bleed to death slowly?
I have to disagree with you there Bruce, When I am at a 3-d shoot I am there to make a kill shot.
I go for the realistic practice it gives you for the upcoming season. The guys at the club use to shake there head when I would hand in my score card. It would be marked with K,W,or M.
Kill,wound, or miss worked for me.
And you are right,beyond a 7 you don't get a minus score. You just get a low score.
Good Shooting,
Craig
If you are shooting at a local club where a large number of club members will be larticipating then I suggest using their scoring scheme. It will save you a lot of confusion and unnecessary griping.
I know you just asked for the scoring system and not opinions, but there are a lot if reasons why this scoring system has never really caught on.
I have heard the wound argument before... Are you going to draw a ten ring (line) for the femoral artery and an 8 ring for the liver? Can I wait twelve hours to turn in my score card after I track and recover the gut shot foam? Less than perfectly shot game is recovered all the time. Besides, if you throw a slight quarter on a 3D target the lines are in the "wrong" place anyway.
Are you going to let everyone approach the target to their ethical and comfortable shooting distance? Are all the targets wide open and broadside with the near leg forward and twenty yards or less?
And what is the ethical shot distance on a giant foam mosquito anyway? Where do you stop?
All this is somewhat tongue in cheek, but after setting up some pretty decent sized shoots for eight or so years now this is the stuff you hear. Too much brush is not ethical. Too little brush is not enough fun...
While 3d targets are animal shaped, it is still really a form of target archery. When you set up a 3d shoot you are setting it up for everyone from kids to seniors and from novices to experts. Novice archers and kids are happy just to hit the target. Negative scoring is negative reinforcement for these folks. It is also negative reinforcement for people who are trying new methods, equipment, etc.
Sorry for the winding road.,.
QuoteOriginally posted by gregg dudley:
Can I wait twelve hours to turn in my score card after I track and recover the gut shot foam?
That is some funny stuff.
I actually shoot the 3-D courses like I am hunting. To me, if i mentally draw a line up the leg bone to the back, a very low 10, an 8 and a high 5 are my preferred spots for hitting a broadside animal.
Gregg did make sense there.
There's really many considerations, especially since it's more likely to be a open-for-all type of shoot.
The penalty will be really unfair to novices and amateurs.
But taking it in a more professional or competitive perspective, I still find the penalty pretty legit. Not that a penalty can cause anyone to do less harm to animals, but it's just the "guilt-factor" for the game. Makes everyone more focus on landing a kill shot I feel.
And I read a little on 3D target shooting, seems like most clubs uses 11~12 for small circles, 10 for heart, 8 for lungs, 5 for body, 0 for antlers and hoofs.
QuoteAll this is somewhat tongue in cheek, but after setting up some pretty decent sized shoots for eight or so years now this is the stuff you hear. Too much brush is not ethical. Too little brush is not enough fun...
While 3d targets are animal shaped, it is still really a form of target archery. When you set up a 3d shoot you are setting it up for everyone from kids to seniors and from novices to experts. Novice archers and kids are happy just to hit the target. Negative scoring is negative reinforcement for these folks. It is also negative reinforcement for people who are trying new methods, equipment, etc.
Sorry for the winding road.,. [/QB]
This^^^^^^
3D is a game; it is not hunting. 3D is great practice. There are all levels of skill by participants who play the game. Having a scoring system that renders horrible looking scores (even less than zero scores! I have seen scorecards turnedin at Fred Bear scoring shoots with a total score less than zero) tends to drive people away. That is not the goal. We want to keep all we can involved and trying to get better.
Bisch
Fred use to have a favorite game. He shot 20 arrows, a hit on the first shot was 105 points, all others were 5 ea..
Max was 200 points put you needed a hit on the first to break 100.
Seen the other scoring at a lot of shoot, never heard it being related to Fred though.
It always boils down to this. Regardless of how you personally participate in the shoot, it either has to be set up as a competitive event or a fun shoot.
If it's just for fun, or hunting "practice" then no scoring system really matters other than the one you decide on for yourself.
If it's a competitive event then those competing should score in a way that actually reflects their skill level. Giving a guy -5 for being just behind the 8 ring on a couple of targets hardly seems fair against someone who completely blows a couple of shots and doesn't even hit the target.
Here is an example of the complaints you can expect to hear......
"I had 6 arrows less than an inch from the 8 line and lost 30 points. My buddy completely missed those same 6 targets, some by a foot, and his score was better than mine".
Personally I like the -5 for a wound, but if I was putting on an event I would not do it because most people will gripe about it.
We had a club in Washington try this scoring. After a few shots I would look at the target and tell the score keeper to give me a zero as I passed the shot as unethical. Ended up shooting 10 of the 30 targets and scored 90 something. I was about 50 points in front of the next shooter.
The club said that I cheated because I didn't shoot all the targets. I said they set up an unethical coarse that contained too many risky shots that could end in a wound.
Now does this sound like a fun day of 3D?
By 10 that morning they had changed the score system back and gave everyone a free card.
I went home.
Mike
We have fun with Fred Bear rounds. We usually do 5 for a kill which is the whole 8-10 area on the 3D target, -5 for any other part of critter and a -1 for a miss. The -1 for a miss is to help prevent somebody from "sandbagging". It's conceivable that one could have enough of a point lead that they could "0" out and still win.
This is just a game as anytime your shooting you ought to be trying to make a "kill shot". Archery can be for fun too.
If we're doing with youngn's we generally try to make misses a whole lot less painful though, like "0". Don't want to get anyone discouraged.
It's fun when things happen like last year I missed on the javelina target and they all had the prettiest group in what they thought was a good kill shot. When we got to the target their group was about 1/2" out of the kill. Ha! My -1 beats a four -5's anytime.. But that's what it's about, better to miss than to wound.
QuoteOriginally posted by wingnut:
We had a club in Washington try this scoring. After a few shots I would look at the target and tell the score keeper to give me a zero as I passed the shot as unethical. Ended up shooting 10 of the 30 targets and scored 90 something. I was about 50 points in front of the next shooter.
The club said that I cheated because I didn't shoot all the targets. I said they set up an unethical coarse that contained too many risky shots that could end in a wound.
Now does this sound like a fun day of 3D?
By 10 that morning they had changed the score system back and gave everyone a free card.
I went home.
Mike
That is funny stuff right there!
Wingnut, that was hysterical!
Gregg, you made a lot of sense with what you had to say. Having a bunch of kids with me at the shoots, I want it to be as fun as possible for them, and dealing with their disappointment at having a negative score would be no fun at all.
I think it would be pretty challenging to try the FB scoring sometime, but it would be much less of a hassle if people would do it on their own, instead of trying to have everyone do it their way.
I try to not keep score! I always shoot better when I don't...
We don't have score cards at Long Hammock! Gregg D knows all about setting up targets at a 3D shoot..one thing he knows is that..you will never make everyone happy..
I like the scoring system at the shoots I go to or I wouldn't go to them. I don't shoot well enough to rank in the money rounds, but I go because it is fun, it helps me to practice during the off season and I want to support the traditional shoots and clubs that put a lot of effort into the shoots they hold. Plus I get to hang out with like minded folks and shoot with my boys.
Just as a thought, it might be a good fund raiser to offer a "hunter scoring round". Take and split up the pot from shooters who participate and the club. It could even be broken down into age groups the way traditional shoots are now. Heck it would give me another reason to shoot another round and support the club with another entry fee!
At our area shoots usually you can shoot for score OR have a fun round. I typically don't use a scorecard at all. I try for a hit that would quickly bring down the animal and cringe when I do not get it where I want it.
And I agree that the -5 for a shot outside the 8 is not inviting for those still learning. A quartering away -5 for score would be a dead animal if placed correctly.
Increasing the fold is what 3D shoots should really be about; not driving folks away.
What was the question?
The tenderloins are better in the McKenzies than the Deltas.
3-D is a game. The vitals aren't even anatomically correct, especially when it comes to the 10 and 11 ring. So play the game or if you are a die hard hunter play your own game. Just remember, we are all out there having fun playing a game on Sundays rather than sitting on the couch.
I as a bowhunter like the -5. But, I can see where it would be a turn off to a lot of folks.
My buddies and I usually score
K=kill
W=wound
M=miss
Each target gets a shot, and some get the "I would never take this shot" but, we shoot all targets and have a lot of fun.
A guy from our club set up a small shoot last year for a group of us that were all in the club. So we didn't have to worry about other people complaining about the scoring system. Talk about brutal, 5 points for a heart, 3 points for a lung/kill shot and -10 for any wound. I ended up winning with a -33 score. Couple of my buddies were at -100 points or more. Now this was just a fun thing between us, but you had to have at least 3 good shots to offset 1 bad shot.
I have shot the Fred Bear scoring on ranges before and I personally don't care how it is scored. I figure if I do my part I will do ok regardless of scoring method. I know some people say they shoot for fun and shoot better when they don't score, but how do you know if you don't keep score? Writing it down shows you what you have done.