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Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: fnshtr on January 06, 2013, 10:29:00 PM

Title: "Natural Altitude Sickness Prevention"
Post by: fnshtr on January 06, 2013, 10:29:00 PM
I've hunted at high elevations several times and for the first time this past fall had a somewhat severe bout with this. I live at 600' ASL and slept at 5000', then two nights at 8500' and thought I was "acclimated". Hiked up to 9500' the next day and had a terrible night on the mountain. I was in better physical shape this past year than I had been on previous hunts at higher elevations.

The best description I can give briefly would be to say I felt like I was dying "over and over again". I seriously considered grabbing a flashlight and heading the 6 miles off the mountain to get some relief. I didn't get any rest that night... but trudged on up to 10,500' for the duration of the hunt and experienced no more problems.   :knothead:  

Can anyone recommend a "natural" supplement that you have had good results using?

Mostly interested in "prevention"... I've used diamox and don't like the side effects.

Thanks!
Title: Re: "Natural Altitude Sickness Prevention"
Post by: screamin on January 06, 2013, 10:45:00 PM
Boy, if there is an answer to this I'd like to know myself. Last yr I camped at 8900 and hunted at 10,000, after a couple of days I thought my head was going to explode. Hunted lower for a couple of more days after that but in the end I had to get out of there. After dropping to 6000 I was ok after about a day. Never went back up there, stayed around 8000 for the rest of the hunt without any problems.

I buddy of mine told me, he lived at 2500 like I do, after he moved and now lives at 6000 it took him 6 months to fully acclimate.
Title: Re: "Natural Altitude Sickness Prevention"
Post by: chanumpa on January 06, 2013, 11:16:00 PM
Time is the only cure I know of to acclimate for elevation.As you guys said,usually hits hard when you near 9,500.Seems that it can last about 24 hrs.,and can take 5 days before you are really use to it.Need the Colorado guys to chime in here.They might know a trick or two.
Title: Re: "Natural Altitude Sickness Prevention"
Post by: stalkin4elk on January 06, 2013, 11:37:00 PM
Wildernessathlete Altitude Advantage is a product that I have never tried. Their drinks and bars are high quality with good ingredients and minimal sugar/junk.
Might be worth a try.
Title: Re: "Natural Altitude Sickness Prevention"
Post by: knappinman on January 07, 2013, 12:40:00 AM
I live in Utah at 5,000 ft and routinely hunt at high altitude above 9,500,  sometimes well above, unfortunately because we live this high we just don't notice much of a change, so Consequently I don't  really know any remedies either, I will say when I visit lower climes I find myself easily able to out pace others as my lungs are used to hiking with thinner air and man do I have energy  ;)
Title: Re: "Natural Altitude Sickness Prevention"
Post by: ozy clint on January 07, 2013, 06:19:00 AM
garlic is well known amongst the sherpas in nepal. it thins the blood. clove oil heaps too apparently. drink heaps of water!
Title: Re: "Natural Altitude Sickness Prevention"
Post by: wigeon on January 07, 2013, 06:38:00 AM
I used Wilderness athlete advantage this year and had no problems.I took the altitude pills and had the drinks to rehydrate and recover .Check out their website  it works
Title: Re: "Natural Altitude Sickness Prevention"
Post by: L82HUNT on January 07, 2013, 06:53:00 AM
I had it once to where I was vomiting. It's no fun.  But since then I've talked to a few people and the best advice I got was just never stop drinking.   I take the powder Gatorade and drink this 75% of the time when I am up there and water the rest.   But what has really helped me was that I always drive out there so I wasn't drinking a lot so I didn't have to stop.   Not anymore I don't care if I stop every 2 hrs I drink water the hole 17 hrs there and have never had a problem since
Title: Re: "Natural Altitude Sickness Prevention"
Post by: Tater on January 07, 2013, 07:36:00 AM
I live at 5200' and hunt anywhere from 9000' to 11,000' so altitude is not really an issue for me.

    Never actually tried this but I have read that regular antacids, like tums, rolaids etc. can be helpful with reducing the affects of altitude sickness. I'm no chemist but something in the antacids helps.
Title: Re: "Natural Altitude Sickness Prevention"
Post by: Butts2 on January 07, 2013, 07:49:00 AM
Times 2 on on what Tater said  ^
Title: Re: "Natural Altitude Sickness Prevention"
Post by: bamboo on January 07, 2013, 08:15:00 AM
tums----WATER
Title: Re: "Natural Altitude Sickness Prevention"
Post by: Onions on January 07, 2013, 08:17:00 AM
I have been told and read that TUMS works very well (do a google search and you will find lots of info on TUMS). Usually two tablets/day. I always carry a roll in my pack, when at high altitude, but so far have not needed it.

chris <><
Title: Re: "Natural Altitude Sickness Prevention"
Post by: Whip on January 07, 2013, 08:24:00 AM
X3
I have hunted higher elevations a number of times, coming from the low land of Wisconsin. I'm sure it varies for some, but the things I do that seem to work for me are:
Lots of water
Lots of antacids
Arrive a couple days early if possible, or at a minimum take it slow and easy for three first couple of days.
That has always worked for me. Hope it continues, because I sure hope I have at least a few more high altitude hunts left in me.
Title: Re: "Natural Altitude Sickness Prevention"
Post by: Roughrider on January 07, 2013, 08:25:00 AM
Altitude sickness is extremely dangerous - people die from it - don't take it lightly.  If you feel symtoms of altitude sickness, immediately go to a lower elevation.  

The only natural preventive I've ever heard of is acclimization.  Do this by climbing higher, in stages, than you will be spending the majority of your time.  For example, the first day climb, or drive, (if you drive, gain and give up elevation slowly) to 7000 feet and spend a couple hours, then return to a lower elevation.  The next day go to 8500' for a few hours and return to 7000' for the night.  COntinue this progression and you should lessen the chance of altitude sickness. A few years ago we climbed Kilimanjaro in Africa (19,500'), and each day we would hike up to an elevation higher than where we slept. On the third night we camped about 15,000', then hiked to the summit the next morning, and had little problem with altitude sickness, but man, it's hard to even think in the thin air @ 19,000'!

 As others have said, drink lots of water.
Title: Re: "Natural Altitude Sickness Prevention"
Post by: fnshtr on January 07, 2013, 11:00:00 AM
I really appreciate all your comments. I had forgotten about the antacids. I have heard that before.

I do drink lots of water when I hunt higher elevations. In fact, I'm constantly drinking water. I know another individual that had hunted many times at high elevations and was in tremendous physical shape. He drove from AZ up to CO for a solo hunt. He hiked in 7 miles up on a mountain and got sick. He then hiked all the way back off the mountain and drug himself into his truck where he spent the night. Feeling better in the morning he started back up the trail and got about halfway up when it hit again. He had to abandon his hunt altogether.

I know another hunter (he's a trad guy and frequents this website) that told me he found a "herbal" preventative that works. I'm waiting to hear back from him. He says he has used it with great results (never had a problem). My only concern about it is that I had never had a problem either (taking nothing but water) in several trips. Others have shared the same experience with me.

Thanks again for all the responses... and I'll let you all know if/when I hear back from this other guy.
Title: Re: "Natural Altitude Sickness Prevention"
Post by: hunt it on January 07, 2013, 11:31:00 AM
A good friend of mine hunted Blue sheep in China at 17,500ft he was 68 at the time. When he arrived in camp his sherpa guides told him to throw the diamox out! Do as we do - a clove of garlic with breakfast another clove with lunch and another with dinner and one more before bed.

He said prridge and garlic no mix so good but he spent 10 days at 17,000ft+ and had no issues at all. Would not have wanted seat on plane beside him on way home, but he got his sheep!
Title: Re: "Natural Altitude Sickness Prevention"
Post by: ChuckC on January 07, 2013, 12:00:00 PM
Be careful with "herbal" or "natural" remedies.

Just saying
ChuckC
Title: Re: "Natural Altitude Sickness Prevention"
Post by: fnshtr on January 07, 2013, 12:06:00 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by ChuckC:
Be careful with "herbal" or "natural" remedies.

Just saying
ChuckC
Exactly why I posted this. I didn't like the side effects of the diamox... and have heard that some have had good experience with "natural remedies".

Now I'm wondering if garlic would be a good "cover scent".    :confused:    :D
Title: Re: "Natural Altitude Sickness Prevention"
Post by: screamin on January 07, 2013, 12:13:00 PM
I'm definitely going to give the tums a shot this year, I'll also make sure I drink more as well.

Garlic makes no sense, as far as I know its a diuretic when taken in giant doses like that. Seems like it would defeat the purpose? Buuuuttt, who knows, the sherpa's might be on to something.
Title: Re: "Natural Altitude Sickness Prevention"
Post by: hunt it on January 07, 2013, 12:54:00 PM
Garlic is a natural blood thinner. Thinner blood circulates better at higher elavations.
Title: Re: "Natural Altitude Sickness Prevention"
Post by: John Scifres on January 07, 2013, 01:12:00 PM
My first couple hunts out west were bad.  But as long as I can get 1-2 days in between 5,000 and 8,000 feet, I don't seem to have a problem anymore.  

I think there a lot of variables involved, some physical, some attitudinal (mental, psychological, however you wanna put it) for me.  When hunting is good and I have something to look forward to, it just doesn't bug me as much.  

Eating and drinking normally really help too.  Conditions will also affect the way I feel. Cold and rainy/snowy days make altitude sickness much worse.  Congestion related to colds or sinus issues also will kill ya.  I take a decongestant every day on the mountain.  And an antihistamine every night.  I also used gingko biloba as well as ginger root the last couple mountain excursions I was on and believe they helped.  Gingko helps the brain and ginger root the gut.
Title: Re: "Natural Altitude Sickness Prevention"
Post by: fnshtr on January 07, 2013, 01:36:00 PM
John:
Good to hear from you! I may have to try the decongestant/antihistamine thing. I have allergies and suffer occasionally with sinus infections. That may have been a contributing factor to my bad experience.

The Gingko and ginger sounds promising, from your experience.

Like I said before, I've hunted high many times, have used the diamox on one occasion, always drink plenty of water (constantly drinking in fact), and usually spend several nights at increasing altitudes trying to acclimate...

Last year it was 2 nights at 8500' with no problems... and then the BAD night at 9500'.

I have not tried the herbs you mentioned NOR have I tried the tums.

I guess my biggest fear is that it can hit just about anyone at any given time... no matter what precautions/meds are taken. I hope I'm wrong.
Title: Re: "Natural Altitude Sickness Prevention"
Post by: Tom Leemans on January 07, 2013, 02:48:00 PM
I know a guy who climbs mountains for sport. Of course, they handle it by going up to elevation "X", then back down a little, then back up, several times to acclimate before heading for the summit. You have to have time available to do that though.
Title: Re: "Natural Altitude Sickness Prevention"
Post by: Roadkill on January 07, 2013, 03:20:00 PM
At the Marine Corps Mountain Warfare Center we get Marines from Hawaii.  needless to say the altitude difference is substantial.  Our routine is to make them drink all the time and start with day hikes and jogs.  These guys/gals are in shape when they get there.  i assume being in great shape helps mitigate and that the lungs are used to working hard.  Try jogging a bunch, stair climbers and stairs with heavy packs on-so that you breath heavily.  Cannot stree drinking water all the time-all the time.
Title: Re: "Natural Altitude Sickness Prevention"
Post by: Steve O on January 07, 2013, 05:43:00 PM
No. Simply no.

Go out early, ease into things at altitude and you will be fine.

Take shotcuts and you may be fine, maybe not.

Those sherpas popping garlic are not living at 600' and then hopping up Mt. Everest with the rich enviornmentalists 250# pack...

Rolaids are the ones that work, straight original Rolaids.

You may find this article, written by a very accopmlished high altitude hunter (and pharmasist) interesting.


  High Altitude Hunting (http://www.wildsheep.org/pdf/high_altitude.pdf)
Title: Re: "Natural Altitude Sickness Prevention"
Post by: Pete McMiller on January 07, 2013, 06:16:00 PM
Terrific article Steve, thanks for posting it.  Very informative with a scientific bent to it.
Title: Re: "Natural Altitude Sickness Prevention"
Post by: fnshtr on January 07, 2013, 07:03:00 PM
Thanks for the link Steve. Still researching.
Title: Re: "Natural Altitude Sickness Prevention"
Post by: Pointer on January 07, 2013, 07:34:00 PM
Ginko Biloba worked great for me this past summer when I went out on a hiking excursion into Rocky Mountain National Park in Colorado...
Title: Re: "Natural Altitude Sickness Prevention"
Post by: screamin on January 07, 2013, 08:35:00 PM
Steve, great article, thanks for posting it.
Title: Re: "Natural Altitude Sickness Prevention"
Post by: Mike Vines on January 07, 2013, 09:54:00 PM
WOW, that makes for some good reading Steve.  Thank you.  You tend to have all the CORRECT answers.
Title: Re: "Natural Altitude Sickness Prevention"
Post by: T Sunstone on January 07, 2013, 10:15:00 PM
I have never had a problem but my friend has.  He's OK under 6,500 but over that it's like his time of the month.   :scared:  Two times we camped over 10,000 and he was hell to live with and didn't want to hunt.  First time he blamed it on a bad Tex Mex food the day we packed in.  Maybe it is the antacids because I take them everyday and he didn't.  I used to ski a lot and never had a problem there either.
Title: Re: "Natural Altitude Sickness Prevention"
Post by: medic77 on January 07, 2013, 10:47:00 PM
I take an aspirin a day for about a week before hitting the altitude.  Seems to help.
Title: Re: "Natural Altitude Sickness Prevention"
Post by: fnshtr on January 07, 2013, 11:01:00 PM
I finished the article that Steve gave us. I hate to take the diamox, but that appears to be the best alternative. I am also on the aspirin regimen. I guess that may be why garlic helps some as it also thins the blood.

Thanks for all the input guys.

I hope none of you ever have to experience it.
Title: Re: "Natural Altitude Sickness Prevention"
Post by: Homebru on January 07, 2013, 11:09:00 PM
Requesting medical advice on the internet is like asking for legal advice on the internet.  You get what you pay for and it's easily worth twice the price.

homebru
Title: Re: "Natural Altitude Sickness Prevention"
Post by: fnshtr on January 07, 2013, 11:19:00 PM
I never asked for medical advice... only recommendations based on other peoples experience.
Title: Re: "Natural Altitude Sickness Prevention"
Post by: Mike Vines on January 08, 2013, 07:55:00 AM
Acclimation is the only true way to acclimate yourself to altitudes.  When I arrived at White Sands Missle Range, we were MADE to run 2 miles the 1st full day we were there.  Elevation was near 5000' (I know it's not that high, but coming from 700', it was a killer).  I don't remember my time, but I failed the time I need to be under 15:54 for 2 miles (I believe I was over 18:00 minutes)  1 week later we were MADE once again (I view running as a spectator sport), my new time was where it shoyld have been, well below 14:00 for 2 miles.  I did not use any suppliments, or wive's tale remedies, just time at that elevation.  

That's about all I can add to this topic, except to say...Bonjour...
Title: Re: "Natural Altitude Sickness Prevention"
Post by: LongbowArchitect on January 08, 2013, 10:59:00 AM
I use Gingko Biloba for my high altitude cycling training rides (14,000' Mt Evans) here in Colorado with much success.  I start taking it a couple of days before each high altitude ride and it makes a huge difference.  I haven't experienced high altitude sickness since I started using Gingko Biloba about 6 years ago.
Title: Re: "Natural Altitude Sickness Prevention"
Post by: jax on January 08, 2013, 11:21:00 AM
Blood doping
Title: Re: "Natural Altitude Sickness Prevention"
Post by: Jon Stewart on January 08, 2013, 11:36:00 AM
Hunted in Co a couple of years and friends who lived out there recommended to bring hard candy and suck on it while hiking and drink lots of water.  I either didn't get the sickness or that worked for me.
Title: Re: "Natural Altitude Sickness Prevention"
Post by: fnshtr on January 08, 2013, 11:54:00 AM
Thanks all... I  really do appreciate helping me get this taken care of before my next hunt.

A friend sent me the following link; he says it really works. For what it is worth...

www.altitude-adjustment.com (http://www.altitude-adjustment.com)
Title: Re: "Natural Altitude Sickness Prevention"
Post by: skilonbw on January 08, 2013, 12:42:00 PM
I dated an ER doc for a while here in CO and she had treated a few patients from lower elevation that had altitude sickness. So I asked her once what she usually recommended to prevent this for friends visiting for skiing and that was to drink Gatorade and water both a lot in equal parts to you have your pee the 3 c's clear copious and continuous. So while you may think you drank enough I think what I have seen on hospital walls here in Denver is something like for an average adult male he needs like 64oz of fluid to prevent dehydration. SO start from there and see if you match average or not and adjust.
Title: Re: "Natural Altitude Sickness Prevention"
Post by: fnshtr on January 08, 2013, 01:07:00 PM
Thanks skilonbw.

I have two 64oz. bladder bags and usually go through both in a day of hunting/hiking. I also use the gatorade packets to add flavor to the water... and occasionally use tang for a change up.

I have noticed I feel the best when drinking the most at higher elevations.

Thanks.