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Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: cacciatore on December 30, 2012, 05:19:00 PM

Title: Question to the Pro Bowyers?
Post by: cacciatore on December 30, 2012, 05:19:00 PM
You professional bowyers, do you think that for some reasons a certain bow,with the same specs like the hundreds similar ones,can have for unknown reasons some better performances than the average ones?...And can you guess what makes such a difference?
Title: Re: Question to the Pro Bowyers?
Post by: A.S. on December 30, 2012, 05:46:00 PM
:campfire:
Title: Re: Question to the Pro Bowyers?
Post by: Gen273 on December 30, 2012, 05:51:00 PM
:campfire:    :coffee:
Title: Re: Question to the Pro Bowyers?
Post by: jsweka on December 30, 2012, 05:56:00 PM
:campfire:    :coffee:  

I'll be watching this one.
Title: Re: Question to the Pro Bowyers?
Post by: Mike Mecredy on December 30, 2012, 06:21:00 PM
Lots of things, materials can come into play, the length of the riser, the mass of the limbs, the string material.  I've never used carbon or foam cores, but I've heard that if you incorporate those into the limbs they'll perform better than the same bow without it.  Also different woods perform better thna others.  Limb profiles come into play.  Less mass at the tips, make a faster shooting bow.
Title: Re: Question to the Pro Bowyers?
Post by: jess stuart on December 30, 2012, 07:43:00 PM
I am certainly not an expert.  I will offer an idea that I think has some merit.  I have in the past built one or two bows that just seemed to shoot perfect for me, nothing I could ever measure or put my finger we just meshed.  Unfortunately I sold or donated them, always thought I could build anohter just like them.  Which I did they just don't seem to shoot as well for me.  So yes I think cetain bows have mojo for some and not for others.
Title: Re: Question to the Pro Bowyers?
Post by: wingnut on December 30, 2012, 07:58:00 PM
Yep, every once and awhile you run into a hot set of limbs or a hot bow.  It could be the glass or carbon or it could be the bamboo.  But for some reason it shoots a bunch faster then the norm.

Mike
Title: Re: Question to the Pro Bowyers?
Post by: Sixby on December 30, 2012, 08:46:00 PM
Having built a lot of carbon bows when you get a bow that is less than spectacular or is more than good it is usually the carbon if your build is all else equal . You did kind of state it that way. All things similar build but an exceptional bow. Either glass or carbon is usually the culprit. Cores can make way more difference than most believe. However we are making the assumption of the same build. That would mean using same core material. Temp range of cook and cooling time could make some difference too.
When you micrometer every lam and glass and carbon and all components the same It almost has to be glass strength or carbon strength.
I know that Kirk and I have had to carefully assess each different batch of carbon though and find it very difficult to get exactly the same stuff every time . Different carbon mfgs and quality vary from being no better than glass of same thickness to being almost three times as strong.
Therefore I usually build a proto or stock bow with each batch of carbon in order to test it out and know how it is working.

God bless and have a great New Year. Steve
Title: Re: Question to the Pro Bowyers?
Post by: eflanders on December 30, 2012, 10:19:00 PM
I am not a pro bowyer but as others have said, there are lots of subtle material differences from lot to lot even though you have ordered the same material from the same producer to the same specifications.  It doesn't matter what material you use either.  All materials can and often do vary from production lot to production lot even with all man-made materials.  But don't forget that no two trees are ever the same and even the same log will vary in strength from the outer layers to the inner layers.
Title: Re: Question to the Pro Bowyers?
Post by: Rick Wiltshire on December 31, 2012, 09:36:00 AM
This is why, when I am at a shoot and find a bow that I like I BUY IT and do not have one built to my specs.  In my experience, the bows I have had built never seem to shoot the same as the one I shot at the shoot.
Title: Re: Question to the Pro Bowyers?
Post by: KentuckyTJ on December 31, 2012, 09:59:00 AM
Felix, your wonderings are correct. I have had a bow and had two identical sets of wood core limbs at the same pounds that were vastly different.

I do think most bowyers have got the process down pretty well where their bows are consistent. When I went to visit Bill Dunn I shot many different bows of all his models and they were very consistent from model to model.

Good thread hope some other bowyers chime in...
Title: Re: Question to the Pro Bowyers?
Post by: ron w on December 31, 2012, 10:20:00 AM
For some reason it seems that the bows I have that have black glass seem a cut above in performance. I may be nuts, but it seems that way.
Title: Re: Question to the Pro Bowyers?
Post by: cacciatore on December 31, 2012, 12:40:00 PM
Ron,I heard something about the glass color that confirm what you are saying!
Title: Re: Question to the Pro Bowyers?
Post by: TxAg on December 31, 2012, 07:19:00 PM
This is an interesting thread. I'm tuned in.
Title: Re: Question to the Pro Bowyers?
Post by: legends1 on January 01, 2013, 12:38:00 AM
I agree with all my fellow bowyers, only thing I may add is tapper rate and parallel.
Title: Re: Question to the Pro Bowyers?
Post by: **DONOTDELETE** on January 01, 2013, 01:04:00 AM
I cannot add a thing to what's already been said except when you do get that exceptionally hot set of limbs now and then without any red line activity going on.  it will drive you absolutely nuts trying to figure out how to do it again consistently...    :dunno:
Title: Re: Question to the Pro Bowyers?
Post by: Bow man on January 01, 2013, 06:48:00 AM
QuoteOriginally posted by Kirkll:
I cannot add a thing to what's already been said except when you do get that exceptionally hot set of limbs now and then without any red line activity going on.  it will drive you absolutely nuts trying to figure out how to do it again consistently...     :dunno:  
Yeah we have all tried so many times to figure it out.
Title: Re: Question to the Pro Bowyers?
Post by: Sixby on January 01, 2013, 12:05:00 PM
Next time I get one I will keep it and build another bow for my customer. NOttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt!!!!


God bless you all and Happy New Year, Steve
Title: Re: Question to the Pro Bowyers?
Post by: cacciatore on January 02, 2013, 08:39:00 AM
TTT more bowyers must be here!
Title: Re: Question to the Pro Bowyers?
Post by: FerretWYO on January 02, 2013, 09:52:00 AM
Interesting thread Felix.
Title: Re: Question to the Pro Bowyers?
Post by: KentuckyTJ on January 02, 2013, 10:01:00 AM
Bob Morrison????
Title: Re: Question to the Pro Bowyers?
Post by: Sam McMichael on January 02, 2013, 11:23:00 AM
Is it possible that certain samples of wood have better characteristics that others pieces of the same wood? Perhaps growing conditions and seasononing could have a particular effect on it. This is only a speculation as I am not a bowyer, even though I have created a few pieces of moderately attractive kindling wood. But I have noticed also that some bows just seem to be special.
Title: Re: Question to the Pro Bowyers?
Post by: Sixby on January 02, 2013, 02:12:00 PM
Morels only grow under certain conditions. Perhaps exceptional bows are kin to morels.
Ya think? Temp, glue mix. accuracy of grinds.
quality of glass, wood ect.
They just all come together when all the conditions are right and Pop, you have an exceptional bow.
Morels also grow in certain places. Perhaps great bows grow in the places that bring the right conditions into play more often than in places that don"t.
Makes kind of weird sence or science to me anyways.

God bless you all, Steve
Title: Re: Question to the Pro Bowyers?
Post by: on January 02, 2013, 05:11:00 PM
What are the span differences between an exceptional bow to an average bow?  With my Hill style bows it is amatter of sanding the final tiller and getting that perfect feel, then the rest seems to come together as well. And yes, I have made some funny smelling campfire wood with all the experiments.
Title: Re: Question to the Pro Bowyers?
Post by: Chromebuck on January 02, 2013, 06:10:00 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by Sixby:
Next time I get one I will keep it and build another bow for my customer. NOttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt!!!!


God bless you all and Happy New Year, Steve
No,no,no Steve   :readit:  

I'mmm gettin a hotrod!

 :jumper:    :jumper:    :jumper:
Title: Re: Question to the Pro Bowyers?
Post by: Chromebuck on January 02, 2013, 06:11:00 PM
Hmmm...
Title: Re: Question to the Pro Bowyers?
Post by: Sixby on January 02, 2013, 09:24:00 PM
LOL, I wouldn't even think of it. haha.

Godbless you all, Steve
Title: Re: Question to the Pro Bowyers?
Post by: overbo on January 03, 2013, 07:02:00 AM
You always here about cores,carbon,glass,ect,ect but you never hear about the epoxy to put the limbs together.A little too much in the build of this limb or not evenly spread thruout the lenggth of that limb,90 degree temps this week and 35 degree temps that week,must have some effect,wouldn't it??