Can anyone give me some ideas on how to stay warm without bulking up too much?
Refried beans the night before?
Seriously though, I'm still trying to figure out the same thing. The little disposable handwarmers my wife uses skiing look tempting. Thinking of sticking one in each boot to start with.
Silk base layer, mid/heavy fleece, topped off with lightweight GoreTex outer layer. Gaiter around neck and good head covering...hands inside a belt type hand warmer with hot packs...good, quality insulated boots over wool socks....Arctic Shield boot covers over the boots.
Another helpful tip is to place the hand warmers under your arms, over your kidneys and around your neck..
Also, keep your body off the ground, it will suck the heat right out of you....plus, don't put anything but the sole of your boot against the ground. Most ground hunters get cold quick because their legs and butts are in contact with the ground.
Hope this helps.
Drawing on my Marine Corps cold weather training here...
Calories- impossible to stay warm without some extra energy to burn.
Loose fitting layers- I was out tonight for a few hours just had wool long johns, wool trousers, sweater and an Asbel shirt. Boiled wool hat on my head.
Feet- silk sock liners and a thick pair of wool socks over them, and my Maine hunting shoes to keep out the wet tonight. I was just right. Granted, it was only barely below freezing in my location so not too cold.
Hope this helps a little.
Tom
Ken has it figured out, for sure. Avoid cotton next to the skin. A silk base layer is great.
Layers, wool, stay dry, keep moving and adjusting the amounts of layers. Believe it or not, it is that simple.
Jarhead training rules. Phrog nailed it. Hat, neck scarf are musts and chocolate candy the instant you shiver. Bakked potato in foil in the pocket. Keeps hands warm, them provide nurishment. Layer up, and in windy conditions make sure you have a windproof layer, does not have to be the outer layer. Think about insulation between the metal tree stand and your boots. I retired from the Mountain Warfare Training Center and got to have the best equipment and training available. Those guys go all over the world reviewing techniques and equipment.
I would be in agreement with all of you with the exception of one fact that bubbaPa was looking for and that was the "Bulk"
Issue especially for archery. And clothes getting in the way of string. I've gone like others are saying.
Base SILK
MID: 240 gm wool (I like first lite) cause if I pull my outer layer off I'm still camo.
OUTER: something tighter to keep the bulk down wind and somewhat water resistant. The newer synthetics are ridiculous quiet too.
If not hunting I do what PHROG does and stay loose layered.
I've found that a merino wool liner sock, then a wool boot sock, and hot pads on my toes will keep me warm with 800g boots in weather down to 0*F. For the rest of my body I wear insulated pants, jeans, then thermals. My upper body is covered with a thermal coat, sweatshirt, then a t-shirt. Keeping the sweat away from your skin is important to keep from getting cold.
Yep, good layers. I also found a good wool vest is huge for adding warmth to core without adding bulk. Use a down vest if you really want to make some heat.
Primaloft and merino wool. Wind proof outer layer. Keep your neck head and wrists warm, that's were you lose the most heat. High fat content food. Mountaineers eat salami dark choc peanut butter and olive oil
Agree with above. Good silk base layer, wool and a good hat.
I wear and recommend Terramar long underwear from Sierra.
What about Zippo "heater", the kind you can put inside your jacket, that stay warm for hours, and are reusable, I have a friend that swear by them! Any one uses them?
Gray Wolf Woolens Vest is the best piece of clothing I own and will eliminate those bulky arms. I wear Ulffrotte' 400 gr wool long johns, then a heavy loose wool sweater, then the vest over that and I am toasty on top all the way down to 10-15 degrees as long as the wind is not heavy, then my arms would get cold.
On windy days I substitute the wool sweater mid layer with my Cabelas wind proof extra heavy lined sweater but it has to be 15 degrees and at least a 10 mph wind to break that out.
Agree with the above....and can't add much to the actual gear since gear has been covered pretty well. With that in mind I'll add that you need to do everything you can to avoid sweating while walking to your stand or between stops while still hunting. If I am hunting from a stand I carry my outer layer or even two outer layers in my pack. For my hat while walking I wear a light weight stocking cap and switch to my warm stocking cap when I get settled in. Feet are a big issue too...it's hard to wear enough thick socks inside thinsulate boots and not have your feet sweat when walking. Your feet will stay warmer in thinner socks if your boots aren't tight. If you can't wiggle your toes and flex your feet your boots are too tight. Tight boots restrict blood flow, don't allow for insulating air space, and actually conduct the cold from the outside in. Another big tip that will help is to WALK slow. Keep your heart and breathing rate low and your body won't build heat and cause you to sweat. I like to leave my truck early enough that I can walk very slowly if it's dark or still hunt to my stand if it's daytime. Not only do you not break a sweat as easily you might also stalk within bow range and release an arrow if it's daytime.
Quality clothing, in layers. I walk in with very little clothes on, once settled in my stand I add layers as needed. If you get sweaty, than you will later get cold. Getting damp from sweat will make you miserable. The "hothands" chemical handwarmers are good too. I use boot blankets vs heavy insulated boots. The insulated boots just sweat my feet walking in, than freeze them later. I use uninsulated boots, than ad boot blakets over my shoes after settling in. A hot hands pouch in these will keeop you toasty. Keep feet, hands, and head warm, you will do fine. vests are good too, keeping the body core warm, but giving good mobility for bowshooting.
David Yukon, I used a Zippo hand warmer while hunting and ice fishing when I was younger. They work great, and I've been thinking of getting another one.
Thermacare back warmers.
Heater Body Suit
Hunt in Hawaii ..... :biglaugh:
Hand warmers behind the knees, in the arm pits and an icy hot heat wrap on my kidneys, also a hand warmer between two stocking caps on my head and tow warmers in my boots. I set on stand for 6 hours with temps in the low teens the other day. I had Longjohns, 1 pair of those columbia wool pants underneath the columbia wool bibs (cheap stuff) on top I had t-shirt, some rocky thermal shirt, carhart longjohn shirt and a cabellas wool sweater. on my head I had two stocking caps, a neck gator and a face mask. The warmers make a world of difference.
The single most important thing is wearing a hat and using a scarf or high neck like a turtle neck.
you are better off with 3 thin layers, with one being wool for arms and legs. i'm a firm believer in vests too....
when it gets below 20 degrees, stay home and read hunting magazines in front of the wood stove... take a nap and dream about that next hunt. :thumbsup:
Find merino wool sweaters at thrift shops,and get a good wool hat.People sometimes dont realize how much heat you loose when you dont have a good hat.
If your layers are are a little loose but not too bulky an arm guard should be able to save your sleeve. It all boils down to having a little space around your body for the heat and a means to kept it from leaving. Wind resistance is a must. Good hat, boots, and hand warmers go a long way too.
Depends on how much you move - with lots of sweating you need wicking layers & wool & wind protection - without a lot of movement down is the best bet - its the only way the family females venture outdoors; one of them also has a fleece with a built in heating pack that I got her from LL....
QuoteOriginally posted by elkken:
Hunt in Hawaii ..... :biglaugh:
I thought the same thing till I did that. Woke up the 1st morning to temps in the 40's. Warmed up to 90 by noon though.
antiperspirant on your feet,and a good vest.
If you are just sitting in a stand you don't need to wear bulky clothes to stay warm. Sit on a good thermal pad that also has a back and small wool blanket on your lap. You can sit all day this way.
Lots of good advice here to keep you "warmer." But when it's really cold, if you stay out on stand for any length of time without moving much, you're going to get cold regardless of what you wear. It's just the nature of the beast. Some people can just handle the cold better than others. But even they get cold under the right conditions.
So many threads on this lately and no-one listens!! Heater body suit all the way. All the warmth with no bulk at the time of the shot.
People that say you'll get cold eventually if it's really cold have not tried a HBS. All day sits at temps well below 0 should attest to it's abilities to stay warm.
http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=096770;p=3
Not sure if this will work (I'm not a computer guy) but this link MAY work to see a pic of me in my HBS staying warm in really cold weather.
Yes Ryan....never tried one....yeah, at times it seams no one listens....and they do it over and over.
Hand warmers placed in pockets work wonders....have a vest with kidney pockets on the back as well as hand warming pockets on the front....foot warmers in boots....hand warmers in cargo pockets of wool pants.
Cover neck and head....
Hand warmers are much more than just for warming hands.
If you are cold, put on a hat. If you are still cold, put on another hat. Your body will rob blood flow and therefore heat from the rest of you to try and keep your head warm.
And loose layers, always. If you put on something tight, you are crushing the air out of your layers, which is where the insulation comes from.
I've been lucky to be able to accumulate a lot of good hunting clothes over the years but I have found that no matter what I wear once the temperature gets down into the 'teens or there is s stiff wind, it's only a matter of time until I'm cold no matter what I wear.
The key to staying warm for me is not just sitting there waiting to get cold. For one thing, I stand almost all the time. Even though I have had back surgery and am dealing with more degenerated discs, standing uses more muscle than sitting and generates enough body heat to make a big difference over sitting. Sitting also compresses your layers where standing allows them to maintain their loft better. Standing offers much better visibility too, I get surprised a lot less often when standing.
Isometric exercises of the big muscle groups will definitely keep you warm with little if any movement. Full body clenches, "most muscle" hero clenches, lots of others can be done and there's really no movement at all, but lots of body heat generated.
A very slow partial squat, 6" or so, then hold as long as you can, back up. Any of these little exercises will help keep you warm on stand. Best to start them before you are shivering though.
build a fire. :campfire:
I took Ryan's advice and using his dimensions and a hell of a lot of material, decided to build my own HBS suit. If I can find the time and figure out how to post pics, I will do a photo build along with details. Let me know what everyone thinks? If there is enough interest I will do it. Rich.
Manitoba: You are correct. I've never tried a body suit. No doubt, body suits are the ultimate defense against the cold. However, most don't have arms in them. I can't help but think I'd miss some shot opportunities while trying to unzip one and grab my bow. In the thick cover I hunt, I don't see deer a long way off. A few seconds notice is a lot.
The initial poster asked for suggestions for keeping warm with non-bulky clothing, and I offered my observation in that context. And any way you cut it, heater body suits are bulky. They're a big package to carry to the stand. Sleeves on models that have sleeves add bulk to an already heavily dressed hunter. I'm sure those who use them have figured out ways to open the top half and shoot fairly quickly, but there's also a good chance the extra fabric when open can impede the bow string.
When I referred to cold, I didn't indicate how cold. To me, that's 10 to 30 degrees below zero. A body suit might make hunting in that kind of weather bearable, but I seriously doubt one will be all toasty inside.
Layers, including one that will cut the wind ( a golfing wind shirt and even pants are secret ingredients here).
Bowhunters should consider getting more into using vests, including big ol heavy wool with stuffing vests, with lighter shirts beneath. You don't need near as much covering your arms as you think. That sure makes it easier to shoot.
Cover your head and part of your face. You lose a lot of heat via your head.
ChuckC
Yeah, undoing the HBS is one extra thing to do before grabbing your bow. I've got it down to an art.....as I stand up I undo the suit in one motion and grab my bow. Anyone who holds their bow in cold weather will not be there for long. Anyone who doesn't know what I'm talking about hasn't hunted in extreme cold.
I've never had an issue with the suit getting in the way as it is behind you when you shoot. That said, the reality of it is there is more material which at some point will interfere with mobility. I'd rather have that issue than not be able to sit all day. My home brew suit goes in a stuff sack which I wrap my safety belt around and wear like a haversack on the way in. Lightly dressed on the walk allows my body temperature to stay down which later aids in staying warm.
The temps you referred to is just the weather I have used my HBS for and down to -40. Although I only attempted 6 hours at -40, I've done all day sits at -27. With hand warmers inside the suit and my fur hat on I've been toasty the whole time. I'm not sharing this info trying to seem like a know it all but rather have discovered something that I should have been using for years.
I kind of sit here and chuckle to myself knowing that many guys here will think back once they try a suit and say to themselves..."Man....that punk kid from Canada was right"!
Again...the last thing I want to say is "I told you so" and sound like a know it all. I have so much to learn about Trad archery and hunting and love the info that people here share that makes me better at what I love. One thing that you NEED to know during the Manitoba rut is how to stay warm. That's one of the few things I've got nailed down. Stay warm...Ryan
Jerry I disagree. Just what me and Manitoba said,Heater Body Suit!
I may have to try one of those. In the past, I've used insulated coveralls with hoods. Warm boots, of course, and plenty of headwear with scarf, balaclava and and a muff with handwarmers. Lots of layers, too, of course. That would suffice on day long sits in sub-zero weather. Can't say I was ever warm though. Always cold, but I could bear it enough to stay.
As I get older, I find that I can't take the cold as well and now seriously consider going out when it's much below zero. Have seriously curtailed my December hunting as a result.
Bet those suits would work pretty well for ice fishing as well. Hmmmmm. That might help justify the price. There may be one in my future. :bigsmyl:
I sat out all day in damp fog pay of the day and never got higher than freezing mark with fleece long johns and regular camo clothes with a long sleeve canvas shirt. Had hand warmers in my gloves, a body warmer in the pocket of my tree stand and a body warmer stuffed down my shirt, still got a little chilly but was manageable. I rarely bow hunt in really cold weather so I don't have a lot of the really good cold gear to dress with like mentioned above. Have also layered up with my rain gear on really cold days, that worked good too.
Camouflage snuggie! See it on TV all the time :biglaugh:
Being from the south I haven't hunted in extreme cold . But, when it is cold I have a neck gaitor that I pull up over my head and ears, put my cold weather had on top of that. Also I have a couple pairs of the leg Warner's that were popular with ladies in the 80s. Put them over merino long johns then top layer of pants. Really helps to keep my legs and knees warm without any bulk.
Do not be afraid of the heater body suit. Once you get it down,it is so much better. I also have it down to science,even with my safety vest. I also use bunny boots on occasion when it gets down to single digits.
QuoteOriginally posted by cleopatra:
I took Ryan's advice and using his dimensions and a hell of a lot of material, decided to build my own HBS suit. If I can find the time and figure out how to post pics, I will do a photo build along with details. Let me know what everyone thinks? If there is enough interest I will do it. Rich.
Rich - I would love to see that.
It doesn't get anywhere close to -27 in Oklahoma, but when it gets in the teens or single didgets with and a wind, I seem to get cold no matter what I wear. A few days ago there was. Windchill of 8 degrees and after sitting four hours I had a doe come in and I couldn't pull my bow back! Literally I couldn't reach my anchor point. I think it was a combination of being to bundled up and getting stiff. So a couple questions for you Canada guys...
At what temperature do you start wearing the HBS?
Do you periodically pull back your bow during your sits?
Ryan, is that some kind of special fur hat or just the kind you get at Cabela's or something? That's worth wearin just for the look! :biglaugh:
When stand hunting from trees with temps in the mid 20s to mid 30s, I get by well on the cheap.
I start out with Rocky mid-weight, thermal, long underwear, top and bottom(Wally World). Over that, I put on my gray Ralph Lauren, with 67% wool blend (the rest polyester) pants that I got at Goodwill for $3.00. On my top half, I put on my tan L.L. Bean 100% wool zip-up sweater that I got used off the internet for $25.00. Then, I put on my ASAT cotton/polyester non-insulated coveralls over everything. For a hat, I use a Thinsulate headcover that is VERY warm. Also, I wear a thin polyester, pull over head, face cover. On my feet, I wear a pair of wool blend boot socks under my Muck Wetland boots. For my left hand, I wear an insulated Jersey glove and I keep my right(shooting) hand in my pocket until I see a deer. All this works well for about 3 hours on stand for me.
Tim, I start wearing the suit after the temps are reularly below freezing. If it's around freezing I just wear less under the suit and add more as the colder it gets. The fur hat is just a cheap fleece and synthetic fur one from the mall, but it's plaid and super comfy! When it gets really cold I wear a balaclava under the fur hat and have the ear flaps down.
As far as pulling my bow...yep...every hour or 2.
Key is, stay dry! Fast wicking expedition weight poly long underwear. 20oz+ Wool on top and bottom. A "shirtjac" for down to 10 deg or so, and put a coat over that for less. Wool hat with a poly liner, 75% + wool sox, poly liners. Add a windlayer, if windy, in between. You will be smiling.
We used sleeping bags before the body suit, they kept you warm . I now use a ground blind and a buddy propane heater I stay warm till I have to get back to the truck or blood trail.
Here in NJ our season runs until February. Temps can be in single digits. Wind chills below zero. I use an oversized insulated coverall as an outer layer. The heater body suit looks to be very similar construction but without the arms. I like my arms free for the shot. There are often fleeting shot opportunities as our deer are quite spooky in January after almost 2 months of gun hunting where the preferred method in the area is driving the deer. That second or two getting into shooting position could cost you the shot around here. Considering similar construction its hard for me to justify the cost difference of a sub $100 insulated coverall vs. $300+ for the HBS.
This morning it was 14 degrees when I got to my position. I had on the following: 200 weight wool power base layer. Next a 400 weight wool power mid layer. Next light cotton pants and an unlined wool coat by grey wolf. Neck gaiter and two stocking caps. I was fine. There was no wind though. If it were windy I would have exchanged my light wool outer layer coat with something with a harder shell. Anyway three layers and I was good to go. My partner on the other hand had four layers of cotton and fleece and then a set of carhart overalls and he froze his but off!
For wind"proof" bottom layers, check out the big auction site for "windproof pants" or tights. I just purchased a pair made specifically for bicycling. Under $35, well made and as windproof as you can find. 2 pairs of wool long handles under them with wool pants over the top good to go on the bottom for me down to -20.
Thanks for all the help.
Yesterday it was 13* with a 10mph wind for a chill of 2*. I wore Core4 merino wool baselayer, a fleece shirt, fleece vest, and wooltimate jacket and pants. Also wore a wool stormy cromer hat, fleece neck gaiter, lt wt fleece gloves with wool gloves over, and liner and heavy wool socks and pack boots. If any colder I would have added a asbel wool hooded pullover.
My 13 year old son and I just spent a week hunting in WI. Thee temps ranged from -7 to low 20F the entire time.
We wore:
Sitka Gear Merino Wool base layer
Sitka Gear Traverse Layer
Sitka Gear Fanatic jacket and bib
We put a small chemical handwarmer in the built in muff of the Fanatic jacket. We were warm and toasty the entire time.
We hunted till noon or so in a Double Bull with no heater then tree stands till dark every day.
He killed this turkey when it was -4F
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b351/osminski/Daniels%201st%20bow%20turkey/2ded43a3f99a895c3784036934aa5291.jpg)
BTW, Sitka Gear's moto is "warmth without bulk"
Layers are the secret plain and simple. While it does not get as cold in North Georgia as in other places. It does get down into the 20s from time to time and my humble opinion is that 20s are cold enough to test your choice of clothing if you are in a stand or natural blind and have to be still for hours at a time.
I start out with a base layer of compression type clothing. I do not look for brands, Under Armor just costs too much. I have several sets in varying weights from Nike and some other brand I forget. If it is not likely to get above freezing I have a Duo-fold Union Suit that goes on next. For pants I use wool. I have both Columbia wool range pants and some other wool pants picked up on auction sites or classifieds. For upper body I have a few Pendleton wool shirts, and a couple of Merino wool turtleneck sweaters in various thicknesses. Lastly I like the Asbell wool pullovers. My greatest challenge is keeping my feet warm and this year I have tried a couple of different tactics. I wear 16" rubber boots all season. These are the non-insulated version. I start with thin, silk socks, then heavy merino socks. Surprisingly what I found that made the biggest difference was a set of felt wool insoles from Chuck at Two Tracks. HUGE difference at keeping my feet warm. I also will sometimes use the chemical type heated insoles but these are usually not needed. Hope this helps!