Do the carbon weight tubes sold by 3Rivers change the spine of the arrow? I believe they claim it does not.
I used them for a while and could not tell a difference. I got too frustrated with them though as every time my arrow would hit something hard, the nock would pop out. I just use heavy inserts and heavy points now.
Bisch
QuoteOriginally posted by Bisch:
I used them for a while and could not tell a difference. I got too frustrated with them though as every time my arrow would hit something hard, the nock would pop out. I just use heavy inserts and heavy points now.
Bisch
Same experience.
I have not had spine problems either. To fix the jack hammering effect on the nocks i put some shoe goo on the last three or four inches of the tube before sliding it in all the way. It is elastic enough that it gives stuff like super glue does not work because it has no give. Have done lots of experimenting with the tubes:-) fmj also work really well w/ heavy brass insert and point. You almost cant get those shafts to fly badly. Good luck!
I have fixed quite a few flight issues for friends by having them take those worthless tubes out of their arrows. I tried them years ago and did not like what I saw. I have had much better results increasing arrow weight in the front only with brass or steel inserts and/or adapters.
QuoteOriginally posted by Steve O:
I have fixed quite a few flight issues for friends by having them take those worthless tubes out of their arrows. I tried them years ago and did not like what I saw. I have had much better results increasing arrow weight in the front only with brass or steel inserts and/or adapters.
What he said x 2! I hate those tubes and yes, my experience, they do change the spine of the arrow in flight.
I've got some weight tubed arrows and I believe that it does affect the spine of the arrow. How can anything that bears on the inside if the shaft not cause an alteration in flex and recovery? The jack hammer effect is quite a nuisance. I've been hit by nocks and had them fly behind me at up to fifteen yards. I like tapered shafts and weight up front.
They make the arrow act weaker, not by much but a little bit, enough to mess things up
If you do decide that you want to add them....use weed eater cord, wrap the ends and in the middle with yarn....it gets rid of that rattle noise and wont blow your nocks out!
A bit of silicone will hold them in place. they are worthless if they are loose... I'd rather buy a heavier shaft and use brass inserts than mess with the dad burn things myself.... Kirk
btw... they do stiffen up the shaft if run full length. Now how that would make an arrow act weaker is beyond me. :dunno:
The answer is - YES they do.
The dynamic spine of the arrow will be stiffer when the weight is added.
Think about something here.
Any weight you add to, or take away from the arrow, the bow, or the bow string changes the "dynamics" of the mechanism.
How can it not effect the "dynamic" spine of the arrow?
If you get the tubes securely installed, and tune your bow/arrow, then they work just fine.
Well I have a couple dozen of them, If installed correctly (as shown in the installation video)they will hold good inside of the arrow shaft. When I started using these I had a concrete block wall that was shielded by a sheet of plywood and that was my backstop, I was shooting at 19yds with a 55lb Super Grizzly, when I did miss my target I had a very FEW NOCKS blow out the back. When that did happen I would pull them partially out and crimp them again in a few more spots and I was good.As for the weight tubes affecting spine, IF THEY DID it was minimal. I did some experimenting with my 65lb Super kodiak shooting arrows with and without the weight tubes at greater distances like 50yds plus. The only difference I could actuallt notice was arrow speed. The weight tubes in question are manufactured much like a common straw only slightly thicker to add weight. The tubes do not carry any structural enhancements to the arrow. I am not an Engineer but I have done some indepth research with these. If you are looking to add some overall weight to your arrows, figure out how much overall weight you are trying to gain and order some accordingly, BTW: do yourself a favor and watch the installation video that 3Rivers put together and follow it exactly. I am sure you will be suprised, OHH Yeh! I use GTs exclusively anmd will continue to use them.
If you want some serious additional weight over weedeater cord, try 4mm plastic coated wire clothesline, they sell 100ft of it at wally world for less than 5 bucks. It gets you some serious additional gpi for cheap and you can add goo or yarn or whatever to stop any rattle/ potential nock popping. I tried some recently and works like a charm. Got some serious additional thump out of my arrows :)
I don't they impact spine at all
I've used 550 paracord to add some weight. It fits down the shaft perfectly and adds about 80 grains to a 28" arrow. Doesn't seem to affect spine and is soft so doesn't kick nocks out. It also seems to quiet the carbons some.
I have some 4 grain per inch ones that you can have,if you want to pay shipping to you for.I didnt try them long enough to have an opinion about spine.Ive seen guys use chainsaw starter rope with good sucess.Give me a shout,if you want those 4 grainers to play with.
QuoteOriginally posted by BowDiddle:
The answer is - YES they do.
The dynamic spine of the arrow will be stiffer when the weight is added.
Think about something here.
Any weight you add to, or take away from the arrow, the bow, or the bow string changes the "dynamics" of the mechanism.
How can it not effect the "dynamic" spine of the arrow?
If you get the tubes securely installed, and tune your bow/arrow, then they work just fine.
The extra weight causes them to bend more, creating a weaker spine, Don't know how you came up with this info, maybe I read this wrong, I have been on this discussion before and the facts really can't change. It's the most common misconception thinking they would be stiffer, they are not.
I shot about 25 shafts testing this once and it has been confirmed by others as well.
They don't get stiffer, they behave slightly weaker because the increase in weight makes the arrow more efficient.
And just glue the darn nock in. I cannot understand why folks would take a chance on a nock moving.
I like 'em. I did have to learn to crimp them and install them correctly... no more popping nocs off!
I shoot Trad Onlys w/o the weight tube for everything up to and including whitetails... and shoot weight tubes for elk. My experience has indicated better penetration with the heavier arrows.
Add weight whichever way is most convenient for you.
I hated them. Changed spine and nocks pop out. Just add weight somewhere else IMO. Or try first.
Worse than popping my nocks out they made my shafts spin terribly; I could never figure out why a dozen new Beman's wouldn't spin that well until I took all the weight tubes out (which was a pain) and now the shafts spin perfect. I'd say they're a no-go.
I've had them in the past and will never use them again. Never had worse flight issues than then. There are much better ways to increase arrow weight IMO!
The best weight tubes are made by PSE for their Black Mamba arrows. Not a traditional tube and they have a felt like coating that keeps em from slipping. Never had a nock come out using these tube. I bet you can find em on the auction site or direct from PSE.
QuoteOriginally posted by Thare1774:
The best weight tubes are made by PSE for their Black Mamba arrows. Not a traditional tube and they have a felt like coating that keeps em from slipping. Never had a nock come out using these tube. I bet you can find em on the auction site or direct from PSE.
I appologize for contradicting you openly sir, but I have been pelted with nocks from Black Mambas with weight tubes installed. When I used them regularly I had to keep a box of nocks with me just to get through a practice session. I have had the entire tube come out on two occasions and it was an interesting feeling to have an arrow that shoots back. If I were to use these tubes again I would apply some glue to the front end, reinstall them and swab the nock area with denatured alcohol. As is they are a no go.
To other gentlemen who claim the softening of spine or no effect on dunamic spine from internal additions:
I humbly beg to differ based upon my experiences. The only way I could conceive this being a possibility is if the material added was allowed to flop around inside and was not snug against the inner walls if the shaft. If it was snug, it would resist/impede the flexion of the arrow and thus enhance the recovery of the arrow from paradox and effectively increase the dynamic spine.
Caveat: All of my experience with both Black Mambas, their weight tubes, and weight added has been with bows around 100#@28". I have not always drawn 28" so to be candid the weight drawn was in a range of 85 to 100# at a length of 26-28". Your results may vary with other weight ranges and draw lengths.
Best Regards,
Forrest Halley
Besides the coated clothes line, the tangle free PVC decoy line holds some promise. I just got 100' for $4 to toy with.
I will say it AGAIN they DO NOT INCREASE SPINE. the weight tubes are basically a drinking straw with no structural stability!!!