Any recomendations for books/videos on training a dog to hunt grouse? Any initial tips?
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Well it pertains to this site when you are hunting them with a recurve or longbow. My father was a dog trainer for 23 years and I was blessed to be an apprentice under him, and Tom dokkens "retriever training " is hands down one of the best books on dog training in my opinion. Naturally as the title suggests its about training retrievers , but there are pointing lab blood lines that are phenomenal also.
I hunt blues with a bow over a shorthair. My Lab is retired now due to age but she liked upland birds over ducks.
This fits the forum but I am not a moderator. I guess they agree as it has not been pulled.
I want to hunt grouse with my bow. I am not into duck hunting and can't use a dog for big game. Hunting grouse with a dog would be a great addition to my hunting season. My interest was sparked when I met a guy at a traditional archery shoot who used his lab to hunt grouse with a bow.
Thanks for the pm's fellas.
A lab is primarily a flushing dog on upland game and can be taught to work close. I used mine on pheasants, quail and grouse but he was primarily a waterfowl specialist. The challenge is reading the dog's body language when he starts to get "birdy" and get yourself within range before the flush. Once they wind a bird there's no stopping them to let you catch up.I'm talking the average lab, not a so called pointing lab.
I know of no good book for training labs for field work but suffice it to say obedience training is paramount. You need to control the dog tightly to keep him within your range. As he get older he will know what you want and work accordingly. They are great dogs. Make sure you carry water for him and some first aid things.
I'm partial to Brittanys
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My lab Arky was an outstanding uplander and would work very close and as was said before would tell you as he was getting birdy. He could be made to stop on "point" and he would just tense up in the "pounce" position while focusing on his birds location. Then you stage up and send him in. It's like an abreviated "whoa" compare to a GSP, Weimar , or English but was his specialty. He would duck, goose, dove etc but upland was his sweetspot, now Bo my current labs sweetspot is the couch, but that's his job
I can't help you with a book on training but I think just time spent with the dog and common sense would go a long way. I bow hunt squirrels with a dog and having a dog along just makes for a richer hunting experience.
Sir,
I would suggest that you go to as many kennels as possible and look at hunting stock and not bench dogs. You don't mention what type of dog you wish to purchase or do you have a dog already? I grew up in a family of dog men and was blessed to have English Setters for my first legal outings. I have raised both Britts and English Setters so if you pm me I will try and help with your concerns.
Regards,
Grouse
You want a dog with a good nose that'll get in there and flush them. I agree with Britts and Setters, but I've hunted them over a water spaniel as well. You want a sturdy dog because they'll be working hard. What I like about grouse is that you don't have to get up too early. They tend to get up and fly down a little later than most birds. Check the regs in your state. If you can shoot them in the tree, then you will want to get up early and hunt them like squirrels. I've never hunted them with a bow, but I bet it ain't easy to hit them.
I Have a lab and I got the book WATER DOG. It is a very good basic training for your dog and he teaches you for both I highly recommend this book. My dog is only 2 and people think he is older because he behaves so well. It takes a ton of time but it is worth it in the end.
Wolters , "water dog" "gun dog" and "game dog" are all good. He training methods are a little....rougher than what some now a days prefer, but they do turn out a fantastic dog
got a nice french brittany that got his first point at 7 months,all in the bloodlines,but what helped the most was a good e-collar,get one and learn how to use it,any book by delmar smith is a good one.
The issue we had with Richard Wolter's books on gun dog training is he made it sound so easy and the dog naturally progressed up the ladder without any muss or fuss, a far cry from reality anyone who has trained dogs knows.
Since my lab was a highly trained waterfowl dog and understood hand and whisle signals it was to my benefit using these skills to teach him how to cast in a windshield wiper pattern in the field. Also to send him farther or bring him closer in.
All the books listed are old and outdated. Good for basic dog control but that's it. There's only one way to train a dog on grouse that's grouse. Lot's of encounters with grouse. You don't want a flushing dog or a dog that bumps birds if you intend to ground slay birds with a bow.
gun dog -Upland hunting by Wolters
also other books by same author are good.
Initial tips:
Let the puppy be a puppy for that first year. Train them, but don't put to much pressure on them... make it fun, fun... or you can ruin a pup.
Get your basic obedience under control, then make a bird dog out of them.
The pointing instinct is there. A bird getting up and flying off makes the dig hold point as it makes them afraid they will fly off again... the key to training them to hold point.
The best training aid a guy can get is a piece of duct tape for the owners mouth while the pup is learning! :-) Get them on birds as much as possible and they will figure it out. After they are good and "birdy" and hold point, then you can work on retrieve.
Play fetch a lot as a puppy... it'll help with retrieving in the future.
When introducing to a gun, start at a distance and only when pup is distracted, chasing a marker or ball. If he stops and looks back, go futher and quieter. Gun shyness is a nightmare to fix, but easy to prevent for most dogs.
Gudogsupply.com is a good source of info and supplies. (I apologize if that is not to be mentioned here, but it isn't archery related).
Make it fun and don't over-do it. If the pup gets to the point it is a "drag" for them, they will regress. You keep them interested by giving them enough to want more, without "burning them out".
A good game preserve for bird hunting will really help to get the pup on lots of birds in a controlled environment. Try to NOT let the pup catch birds after they start pointing as it can be a hard habit to break.
Pigeons make good training birds as you can "card" the bird or put weight on a leg and they will only fly a short distance after you kick them up and you can retrieve them and use them again. Remember the comment above about a bird flying off makes the dog learn to hold point.
Search the internet as there is a lot of info on it. Pick a program and stick with it.
If you haven't got your pup yet... "buy the lineage" so-to speak. If their parents were good hunters and their grandparents... chances are they have it in them to make good hunters. Don't get all wrapped up in "papers" and world champion lineages. Nothing wrong with it, but there are outstanding dogs out there that the owners never put in a competition. A German shorthair won a world championship a few years back that was from a pound if I remember correctly.
Good luck and have fun. Traing a new pup is a blast!
My dog is a Rhodesian ridgeback. Does that change the approach.
What the "hoot" are you hunting?
A dog breed to hunt African lions should work for grouse LOL. Ridgebacks are very cool dogs.
Looks like I got some work to do. Been a long time goal of mine to hit the trail with a canine companion. I would even settle for squirrel hunting but prefer the taste of grouse. My mastiff only hunts the couch these days.
I would think seriously about a versitile pointer. Pointers will give you a few minutes to show up and get ready & you're going to need those minutes to shoot birds out of the air with an arrow. German Shorthairs are great bird dogs and couch potatoes.
My training advice is to find a local pointing breed club. The old guys there will be glad to get you started and fill you in on the rest. Much better than any CD.
Here's Lucy, she'll point Quail, Grouse, Chuckar, Rabbits and Squirrels. She'll fetch all of the above + kittens and other small mammals.
(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r243/7Lakes/Dog%20Pictures/100_2083.jpg)
(http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r243/7Lakes/Dog%20Pictures/100_2084.jpg)
That's a good looking pointer.
I'll second what 7 lakes suggested... but then again I'm partial to GSP's. I have hunted strictly with German Shorthairs for about 8 years now. Love 'em. Great dispositions, versatile, and beautiful, hearty pals.
Finally - a topic I know something about!
I didn't see the original poster specify pointing dog or flushing dog, but I am going to make some recommendations assuming pointing dog:
First, if you haven't done so already, try to find a NAVHDA chapter local to you (NAVHDA = North American Versatile Hunting Dog Association). To train a dog for grouse, you need simply need to start with training a hunting dog, and that is where NAVHDA comes in. You can learn a ton from attending training days with other members, and accomplish a lot more with multiple people helping. In order to hunt any upland bird, with a bow, I would recommend training your dog to be steady (wing, shot fall and retrieve). This is especially important if you are using broadheads as you don't want to risk the dog getting injured while running or retrieving when a broadhead is around.
As for books, NAVHDA has what they call "The Green Book", which is a basic training manual. Its been around for a while, and is very good. There is one better, though, in my opinion. It is called "The Orange Book" or "Training the Versatile Dog" by the American Hunting Dog Club. Its methods are very similar to NAVHDA's, it is just the book goes into better detail. Neither address e-collars, as that is not something to learn from a book, but rather from someone experienced in how to condition a dog to them and train with them.
Any other questions, just ask. I apologize if you have or are leaning towards a flushing dog. I can't help quite as much with those.
Merry Christmas!