Well, I've been shooting woodies for several months now and just had one break and lodge in my left hand....it hurts. I must admit, I'm a little "gun" shy now. I'm really curious how it happened and the probability if it will happen again.
The rift was in the 12:00 position, but the arrow broke in several areas. I think the cause may be when I was bareshaft testing them. I was getting some severe sideways hits on the target and this possibly may have weakened the arrow??? Coincidently, several others out of the same batch had broke upon impact a few days earlier.
The spine should be okay. I'm shooting 51#@27", the arrows are spined 60-64# cut to 28.5", with 160 gr. field tips. I thought this would be a good starting point.
I've got a good investment in wood arrows now and sure hate to go back to carbons. Any expert advice out there on why/how this happened?
Bob
Seems somewhat possible that one of those severe hits may have caused the shaft to crack, probably ever so slightly. Just my 2 cent hypothesis...
I have never had that happen, but I have only been shooting woodies for 43 years. For it to let go on release like that, there had to be an existing fracture in the shaft when you put it on the string.
Carefully examine the rest of your shafts, flexing them to see if a crack opens up. How is the grain? Does it run from one side of the shaft to the other? I am real picky about grain runout, and cull shafts that exhibit it.
Your arrows sound stiff to me, but I don't know what bow you are using, etc. If they hit sideways when bareshafting, that sounds like a problem. :saywhat:
Killdeer
sounds like a good question for arrowmakr....but my guess is that the arrow was damaged before you shot it...probably had a split in the shaft.... you may also have some shafts with too much grain run off. I would always recommend using a arm guard for safety sake....but i think this is definitely a freak accident...Make sure that you run the rifts >>>> towards you on the bottom and <<<<<< away from you on the top of the shaft.... and that your nock is oriented correctly with the grain...It is not uncommon for a bareshafted woodie to hit the target and break....I would suggest using the tuning methods that are on foxfire archery site and tune with broadheads....if your woodies are shooting were you look with broadheads...then you know youll be ok with fieldpoints.... hope this was helpful and i wouldnt give up on woodies...
I think the culprit may have been a fracture obtained from poor arrow flight during the bareshaft testing, and was not detected because I didn't examine the shaft. I've been pretty picky about flexing with carbons, but I admit, I haven't with the wood. The grain appears pretty darn straight. Rifts pointing toward the tip were positioned on top as well, but the arrow pretty much broke in 3-4 places.
Killdeer, I thought they may be a little stiff too. Hildebrand has been right on with his suggestion of 10# over the draw weight (+5 for reflex/deflex, +5 for fast flight). My shafts for my 43# longbow are cut at 28.5, spined at 50-55#, and 125 gr. tips.
This sounds like a fluke, or just some carelessness for not checking them...thats something I can fix. I'm glad this isn't a common occurrence, and i get get some confidence mustered up. It sure does hurt to get stuck....something I won't soon forget. I guess I just have to get back on the horse soon as the hand heals.
Thanks,
Bob
I'm sure that having a wood arrow lodge in your hand is not "pleasant" BUT....."I'd sure hate to go back to carbons" (?????)!!!!!
I know that any shaft can break and injure your hand.
I had a few wood arrows break over the years,luckily only one made contact with my hand,that one made a good sized gouge across the web of my bow hand.
Several years ago there was a photo going around of a fellow who had a carbon arrow shatter and the splintered ends (about 7 of them) went through his bow hand. It looked like a piece of flailed bamboo!!!!! It gave me the shivers just thinking about it!!!!!
NOPE,I won't touch carbon shafts.....Some folks may think I'm silly.....But I wont touch them!!!!!
Whacking the shaft sideways into the target most likely cracked the shaft, so the shaft broke the next time you tried to shoot it. Should check the grain on all your shafts. I've seen a lot of junk where the grain runs off the shaft. Those are very prone to breaking. About all those are good for is tomato stakes. I've been shooting wood for more than 40 years and have never had an arrow break on release. Of course, I have broken a lot of arrows hitting and/or glancing them off of hard objects.
I think you're spined right for your draw weight. I've always overspined by 10 pounds or more. What kind of wood were you shooting? Doug fir can sometimes be a little brittle.
I've never been a big fan of bare shafting with woodies. It doesn't work for most people. Your experience of having the shafts hit the target half sideways is typical. Fletch and shoot them. If they fly straight and hit where you want, fine. If not, try some others with a little more or less spine until you find what flies well out of your bow. By the way, most bows, even non centershot bows will usually handle at least a 20# range in spine. Center shot bows will handle even more, as long as you don't underspine. This holds true for glass laminated bows, not self-bows. Good luck.
I had an old cedar arrow blow at release a couple of years ago. My only injury was string slap near my arm pit. I found out that there was an existing crack in the shaft that I didn't notice. I found the front 2/3 of the arrow the next day about 10' beyond the target. That arrow was probably shot 1500 times before it blew. I've been shooting woodies for 20 years or so and thats the only one. Pat
I've been laid open by a bow string breaking at the loop acting like a bullwhip across the back of my hand. I've had the bow of someone shooting behind me explode and beat me like a slave driver across my back. I've stabbed in the groin with the nock end of an arrow in someone else's quiver as they walked into me where it tore my jeans and made a 4 inch cut two inches away from something that doesn't need any further cutting. I've had my own bow explode in my hand at full draw and been hit in the face and chest and legs by pieces of the bow. I've even had an arrow I shot hit a sapling and snap back and stick in my thigh. I even had fletches embedd into me hand on shelfless or narrow shelfed bows; but I have never had an arrow break at release and stick me.Thank God! I sympathize for you.
I had the same happen to me, light weight fir arrow.Five pieces, just a small gouge in the back of my hand and the bow tip smacked my forehead. A Wake-up slap! Lucky me.
We had been shooting through a lot of saplings and evidently the arrow had slapped a couple, as I drew it my peripheral vision told me it was 'bent' a little. I should have let down, paid the price.Check your arrows regularly. Same advice as everybody I guess.
Chrisg
Never had an arrow do that but,I've had an osage bow (that I made too short) blow on me at full draw. Also, been striped pretty good by a string braking. Things like that ,as well as the ones the others have described, sure tend to increase the "pucker factor".
Ouch, I'd still rather have it happen with wood over carbon.
Carbons will not show up in x-rays and tend to splinter into thousands of little pieces when they explode. Hand that happen at one of our 3D shoots last year.
I would say the shaft had a crack in it which went undetected before being placed on the string. I have found the same thing a couple of times. Flexing the shaft will make the cracks stand out
I'll certainly be checking the shafts more often. Funny thing is, when I was at the hospital, one of the nurses asked me what type of arrows I was shooting (also a bowhunter). He gave me a strange look when I told him wood. I think I'll stick with woodies and aluminums.
Bob
Bob:
A lot advise has already been given, however I don't think you have given enough information about your bow to tell wether your spine is correct or not. How deep the shelf of your bow is cut is crutial in spine selection. And yes you could have cracked the shafts by bareshafting, one of the reasons I don't recommend that proceedure. If you use a simple formula for calculating spine, that is not necessary.
Killdeer talked about grain run-out, in a one piece shaft this is so very important. Shaft quality has declined over the past several years, its now more important than ever that you cull shafts that have sever run-out, they are accidents waiting to happen. Always check a wood arrow after each shot, for your own saftey. Glad your injury was not more sever than it is.
Bob
I did not read all t5he post but if you are shooting a high perfromance bow, even a longbow it sounds like you are under spined, with that much weight up front you should be a minimum of 15-20#s over the bow weight at your draw length, maybe a regular D-shaped longbow you would be ok but otherwise look out. I am sure Arromakers advice was sound without reading his post! Shawn
I was bare shafting with woodies a few days ago and had one blow up on me. I was trying different tip weights and the shaft was striking the target at a severe angle in some cases. Fortunately it blew upon impact with the target not on release. I'll bet the bare shaft hitting at an angle is what caused yours to go as well.
Yeah Ive had the fletching stab me in the hand when I was shooting a shelfless bow. That smarts. I have not had an arrow explode on my yet and I shoot every day in the summer and at least once a week in the winter for 3 years now.
A little info on the bow. I was shooting an Original Dwyer, 51#@27" and I don't believe the bow is center shot, but close to it. Fastflight string. The arrows are Sitka spruce, and the grain was pretty straight. I don't think I'll ever bareshaft woodies again as I believe that the severe angles of the arrows as they were hitting the target may have caused a fracture that I didn't detect. I did break three other arrows several days earlier bareshafting, but they broke badly on impact. I didn't think I would get such poor flight because I thought I should be right on with spine. Carbons and aluminums have always had some slight kick bareshafting, but nothing like the woods. The fletched arrows appeared to fly pretty darn good though...the few that I did shoot.
Bob
Starkman:
You didn't mention the source of your shafting which is fine. However I see a lot of posts on here of people making arrowshafts from lumber or some board that has "STRAIGHT GRAIN". These can be extremely dangerous, I hope you have not become a victom of this practice. Most people refer to GRAIN as the annual growth rings which is the VISIBLE grain structure of the wood. There is however a GRAIN in all woods that is INVISIBLE ( to the naked eye )called the RAY CELL STRUCTURE and it is every bit as important as that wich is visible when it comes to the strength and strightness of an arrow shaft. The only way of identifying this invisible grain structure is to split your wood PERPENDICULAR to the annual growth rings, it will follow the ray cell structure when split. Make sure your source starts from split bolts and not lumber for the utmost of saftey. If you want to learn more, PM me and I'll refer you to additional reading information.
Try to get in the habit of looking down each woodie prior to knocking , picking it up after the shot when stump shooting or treating them roughly (glancing blows, bareshafting etc.) Probably don't have to tell you this now. Learn to heal them up as an attempt to straighten it on the spot, if there is an exsisting weakness it will show itself either with and audibel "crack" or total breakage. In either case make sure it ends up in two pieces before putting back in your quiver, thus it cannot get mixed up and shot again. Make sure you know what you put on your string or back in your quiver is safe and your confidence in them will come back.
As for bareshafting, figure the deflection on the "aluminum and carbon" that are giving you the best results and get woodies with the same deflection, pretty simple.
I remember My Old Man Telling Me, When I was a "Wee-Nard", "With Fear Comes Respect" Its GOOD to Be Slightly Afraid of the Weapon of Choice.
That Sage-Advice out of the Way, DAY-UM-NATION!!! I am Sure Glad You didnt get Worse than You GOT!! :thumbsup: :goldtooth:
Take what "stumpman" say's to the bank, he's right on target. In the hay day of wooden arrow shafts all of the shaft producers split the bolts prior to cutting into squares for dowling. There is a lot of waste making shafts this way, a lot of material stays in the woods, instead of going to the consumer in the form of junk. Unfortunatly there are shaft producers that are more concerned with profits than a quality product.
A word to the wise, an old time arrowsmith and my mentor once told me beware of buying arrows that have the entire shaft painted. Paint hides the grain of the shaft, its a good way to sell inferior shafts to the unsupecting.
Bob
i had the same thing happen to me, but i was shooting a compound and carbon arrows. the arrow had a crack in it jus past the vanes. as i let it go it broke into two pieces and the back piece hit me in my forearm. it only hurt really bad. i just make sure i check all of my arrows now and i made the switch to aluminum.
Bareshafting wooden arrows is their kiss of death if they hit the target at an angle. I've had many that broke completely on impact. A high percentage also developed sinister cracks down their length, which were not readily noticeable. I have no doubt this was the case with your shaft.
Pay good attention to any shafts that don't go in the target fairly straight. Also, if you hear any "tick" or "crack" when the arrow hits the target, look the shaft over well for it WILL have a split or crack forming somewhere. In fact, you'd be just as well off just to finish it off over your knee.
I've had several wood shafts blow up over my life time and most of those have been spruce. You guys that are damaging shafts by bare shafting, first it indicates your spine was way off to start with and you were too far from the target. Start close and work back with wood. Starting at 60 yards with "soft" surounding will work too cause odds are you won't hit the bale! Or skip the whole process and use wide broadheads, they'll tell you the same thing bare shafting will, possibly better. :) ....O.L.
I have also cracked & broken wooden arrows trying to bareshaft them. I believe what Bob said about bareshafting woodies. Frank
I've been using the Traditional Bowhunter's Handbook as my guide for building arrows. Conrad does illustrate grain run-out, but I was wondering if anyone has photos of what is good vs bad. My digital camera is broken or I'd take some pics myself. I do want to add that I believe the supplier is a reliable source for spruce shafts. I don't think it was a quality control problem, but error on my part. How does cedar compare to spruce?
Bob
I may not know a whole lot about arrow building, especially where point weight affects apparent spine, but 160 gr for a point seems a bit excessive for a shaft spined at 60-64 lbs... You say the bow you were using is rated at 51#@27", and the shaft was cut at 28.5" as well. That means the shaft was actually bending quite a bit because of that 160 gr point.
See, the bowstring was forcing the shaft to move forward, but the weight out front of the shaft was forcing the shaft to stay put -- and the shaft had to go somewhere, and it seems to have chosen to go sideways, right into your hand. And has been said already: the fact that your shafts hit "sideways" on the target and several broke on impact says that something else is out of whack.
By the way, Killdeer, I have seen woodies break on release without first being cracked; Cedar shafting, new-made and **gently** flexed prior to launch to check for cracks. They were under-spined for the bow/archer combination by at least 10 lbs; spine-checked the "survivors" when the first one broke. The shaft has to be able to withstand the bending forces of "Archer's Paradox"; it doesn't have to be cracked to break apart on release, it only has to be too weak -- otherwise a shaft/point combination spined at 40# would be usable in a bow rated at 60#, even when that bow has a center-cut shelf. But you already knew that, I must assume.