I noticed on the 8 point post here in Pow wow a Buck Mike Mitten had gotten in the past with a jacked up/deformed side due to a broken leg injury...I wittnessed a buck at a outdoor show one day where some fella raised his Bucks from Fawns and he had one with a bad deformed side...I asked the fella I had read and heard of reasons why but his buck looked healthy so why the bad side.. The owner explained to me he called his vet to come check him out and He said that year the buck got a piece of straw clipping from the pasture stuck on the opposite nostril of his nose and it got infected and caused the jacked up antler...So even though I have yet to harvest one if you have taken a "Traditional Only bow kill" buck with a deformed antler from an injury could you post a pic and to what side the injury was on and to what side of his antlers had the deform? Some folks may not of known this could of been the reason why one side of a bucks antler grew wild from an injury the buck may of had...Is it a Fact or Fiction? I am not the one to ask but from what I have seen in my life usally it's from an injury and the opposite side of the injury may of caused that deformed antler....Mike Mitten could you please post yours? Thanks
Keefers <><
We have had camera pics of this buck for 3 years. Putting him at 4.5 we think he was injured as a button buck (his jawbone ages hin at 4.5). His front left leg had a mass as big as a softball. He weighed 215 and his front left leg never touched the ground.
(http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k313/wcocke/D037ED86-A9B0-4BF5-B042-B4CF81D7EF06-4860-000005862FE24F50.jpg)
Here is a pic of the front leg
(http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k313/wcocke/AAF6C1C0-2714-4B6C-B752-6CEE6040B395-4860-00000586448D42E4.jpg)
Here is the position of the left leg I tried to straighten it but this is the way it heeled.
(http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k313/wcocke/F996D499-E11B-4CCA-97BB-160F6855C4AC-4860-0000058674465427.jpg)
All the biologist that I talked to say it put so much stress on the animal that neither side grew properly
If I remember well I've red something on the subject in Gene Wensel's book.Weird how injury affect antler growth.
This is an interesting subject with some varied opinons. On Oct. 29th this year I passed up a good buck I probably should have taken. I had my reasons. One of my good friends, who is 72, finally drew an Iowa N/R tag after applying four years and was due to arrive the next day. I wanted him to at least get a crack at the buck. We named him Clubfoot because of an old healed injury to his rear left leg down near the hoof. I got over a half hour of great video footage of Clubfoot feeding from 15 to 25 yds. that evening. He never had a clue the boogie man was right there above him. I noticed he didn't walk with any apparent limp, but when standing/feeding he'd only rest his leg on the tip of his hoof so as not to bear weight. I almost shot Clubfoot as a "cull" in 2011 because I thought he wouldn't get any bigger. One evening in the early January late season he walked right under me. The only reason I didn't take him was the fact I only had one tag left and there was still at least one Booner in the neighborhood. Until this year I was under the impression a leg injury to a rear leg would neurologically cause a deformed antler on the opposite side of the injury. This is most often the case. But I also assumed the neurological deformity was permanent. After seeing Clubfoot and talking to two deer biologists I'm told the injury can heal and the deer can resume normal antler growth in a following year. If one of you computer gurus wants to forward pictures for me I'll be glad to document this case. Very interesting. BW
-----A common antler deformity results from damage to a deer's front or rear leg. Rear leg injuries produce a "contralateral" antler deformity (malformed antler on the opposite side from the injury), possibly due to one side of the brain controlling the opposite side of the body. After a very serious leg injury, a buck may never produce a quality rack. Injury to a front leg may produce a malformed antler on either, both, or neither sides. Body injuries may or may not cause antler abnormalities.------
This is the article he referred to
I had a history with this buck and passed it up a couple of years. He had a bad left leg that had healed. I assumed he would be messed up for the rest of his life. Its still a great buck to me regardless of score. He gave me great pleasure and nurishment in more ways than one. Mike
(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff289/MittenM/hero/11-27-2007-19.jpg)
Well this deer I am currently hunting... I mean watching. I don't want to take him this year because I have not seen him walk lately. Last year he was a 5x5 with the stickers near the brow, but now he is "jacked up". Well if you ask me I would say he injured his antlers on the left side while growing in velvet or he had some kind of an infection or illness. Without seeing him walk , I would guess and hope he will be normally HUGE next year. Ha! He will be 5 1/2 next season if he is still alive. Our gun season is over now and I like to hunt late season and get surprised by the warriness of these bucks as they reveal themselves too me from time to time. Usually at last light. Ha! Mike
(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff289/MittenM/hero/IMAG0338.jpg)
(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff289/MittenM/hero/IMAG0341.jpg)
(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff289/MittenM/hero/IMAG0339.jpg)
(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff289/MittenM/hero/IMAG0343.jpg)
Left side view
In ESENTIAL ENCOUNTERS,you guys have filmed a buck during summer that had some sort of a big pear shape antler hanging on one side,what is the reason for such an abnormality?
The buck at the top appears to have been chasing parked cars in velvet.
He wanted to be an Audad
ti-guy We also wondered about that, but I would think it could ahve gotten damaged or at least it would not suport osiphication and get hard. Like some drop tines, there seemed to be pooled blood and very porous. In any event, I don't think that antler would survive velvet shedding as it was hanging and swinging as it was. It would just drop off.
I hunted a buck that had a typical 4 pt. right side and multiple beams and points coming straight out of his left side. The left side was very thick at the base.
The interesting thing was that his antlers were covered in dried velvet in mid November. I didn't notice a limp. I often wondered if he may have had an injury to his testicles, due to the fact that he still had the velvet on both sides. Sorry, no pics. I missed him twice!
I guess it explain half rack buck we see.Is it recommanded or preferable to take them?Are they suffering? It sure makes unique trophies but is there meat loss near the injured area?Thanx for the info guys,very interesting subject...
This guy was a typical eight last year. But this year he's wearing this. Suspect it's from an injury but his walk is fine and he has no visible signs of trauma.
(http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e173/Yellowdog3822/IMAG0069.jpg)
Usually the bone injury hapened the previous year and the bone is healed. They may limp a little, but seem to be doing normal deer activity. I would say the meat will be fine. But its a case by case issue.
Here is buck Barry passed up in 2011. Clubfoot. I will let Barry discribe these pictures.
(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff289/MittenM/hero/IMAG0213.jpg)
Here is same buck in 2012!!!! This goes against my historical thinking, but I will let Barry describe what new information he has learned. Mike
(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff289/MittenM/hero/IMAG1305.jpg)
(http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff289/MittenM/hero/IMAG1306.jpg)
Thanks Mike. The first photo shows Clubfoot in 2011.If you look close you can see the injury just above his left hind hoof. You can also see when standing he appears not to put weight on the bad leg. But when he walks he does not have any detectable limp. A couple other things to scrutinize. Notice in the bottom photo on the leg around the joint, near his tarsal, the skin seems to be bunched up like it's wrinkled or something. You can actually see it better on the video footage. Also notice the hair near the healed injury appears more white than usual for the front of the leg. Also notice the left hindquarter muscles/ham appear to be atrophied (withered) most likely from less use. This is interesting. But the most interesting part is he obviously grew a "normal" right antler after he healed from the stress and trauma of the initial injury. The deer biologists I talked with confirmed this happens sometimes. Until seeing this I was always under the impression the neurological injury and antler deformity would be permanent. I also can't decide on this bucks age. He might only be 3.5 in the first photo (2011) and 4.5 in 2012. Or he might not be filled out as much because of his injury. He might blossom into a real giant next year. He better not try to walk by me again though or I might lose control. It just shows no matter how long we're out in the timber we're always learning stuff. BW
I predict this will be the next craze in trophy buck management. "Strategic wounding to elicit desirable antler traits." :knothead: :bigsmyl:
Amazing how they adapt and healed themselves! :)
Great thread that buck at the top of the thread is awesome. Yes we are always learning.
I have always heard that after healing the antlers will resume normal growth. It is nice to see it in real life situation. That is a heck of a nice buck you have there Barry.
Interesting stuff, thanks guys.
Barry, just curious but what's that bluish/ gray rope hanging down in front of the pic of 2012 pic of Clubfoot. Huge buck! My first thought was a pull- up cord hanging off your stand :D
The rope is a scent wick for pre-orbital scent facials. Gene wrote Part 1 of a 2 part article on them in the last issue of Bowhunter Magazine. Maybe it's online, I never checked. Part 2 has not been published yet but upcoming. You'll likely be impressed. bw
This morning when I started this post/thread I had no idea it would get the attention it has and I appreciate everyones photos and what you all have witnessed in your time in the field as well ...I was hoping Uncle Barry and Mike would jump in and post what they have seen in their time in the outdoors also and I thank both of you for stepping in on this ..Now a few years ago I was half way around the world adopting our second child and I was gone during the start of the rut here in Md. and was busting at the seams(not from the food I was eating) but not being able to be home to hunt...Well I was in touch with folks here on Tradgang and a good friend that was tormenting me by sending me photo's of bucks on his new trailcam ...He sent me about 8 photo's one day and one was a buck with a missing leg right up to the shoulder... I cann't remember which leg it was but it was a front one and the buck had a "Jacked Up" antler...The very next year my buddy and I were hunting together and he had his camera with him that night and took several pics of that same buck that he sent me pics of the previous year and the rack looked much more normal but I think one side was missing if I remember correctly..I'll call him to see if he saved those pics of the two seperate years but this buck looked much healthier even with a missing leg...Now the odd thing was he resembled a camel and we called him camelback because above his front shoulders his back was all swelled up looking..These are some of the most amazing creatures and how they survive things like this I'll never know.. Thanks guys for all your replys to this subject...
Keefers <><
We will soon have Gene's article and many additional photos on the brothersofthebow.com site. Stay tuned. The main thing about the wick is it is "velvet rack friedndly" and can be initiated as early as May with little or no damage to growing antlers. As far as I know, no one has studied wild deer interactions to scent and lure this early in the growing season. This time of year is generally associated with separation of the sexes, with bachlor groups finding areas of seclusion. Gene has shown that bucks and does communicate through the scense of smell all year long.
It is amazing how tenacious wildlife can be knowing they are surviving their injuries while dealing with the elements, inability to normally eat/drink, constant roaming predators and no sterile environment fighting off infections, etc. Ten years ago I was pre-season scouting in Sept. in Iowa. I was sitting on top of a farmers row of big round bales. Right below me, literally five feet away was a bedded, hiding fawn that obviously somehow escaped some coyotes or dogs. It's whole one hindquarter was almost completely eaten away. I had a camcorder with me and I got some footage to document it (I have no idea where the footage is now). I can't remember for sure but I believe it was the North American Whitetail Magazine TV show asked me for the footage. They aired it as a segment of their TV show so some of you might have seen it. Although I didn't get to inspect the animal closely, I question with that much trauma how the fawn didn't bleed to death. Another even more impressive example of a whitetail surviving extreme trauma, about 25 years ago I was bowhunting along the Milk River near Tampico, MT. I was just bowhunting and not filming so didn't have a camcorder with me unfortunately. I had an adult doe FOLLOWED BY A FAWN walk across the open field probably fifty yards from me. I hesitate saying this because people won't believe it but it appeared she was cut in half just in front of the hindquarters. There is a busy railroad track that goes right through this farm. I've been told if a train runs over a human arm or leg the trauma actually sears the cut through pressure. I don't know. I'm just saying what it looked like that I saw. She walked along completely normal on her front legs and was dragging what was left over on the ground as she walked. I put the binocs on her and decided to try to get closer for a better look. When I baled out of the tree she saw me and "hauled ass"...sorry.. well you know what I mean. All I know is she could run faster on two legs than I could. I swear this is a true story. You can believe it or not but I'll never forget it. BW
Barry believe it or not I have been told a similar story by a hunting buddy involving a doe that had lost both hind legs just below the hind quarters. He told me that the deer was dragging itself along feeding on acorns. At first he said he figured it had been very recently hit by a car. He thought he would try to put her out of misery and that he would be able to walk right up to her. But when he climbed down from his stand the same thing happened. Said she took off "running" much faster than he had imagined and got away!
One December, I rattled in what would have been a beautiful massive 10 point buck. I was hunting on the ground and as he came trotting down the field edge, I noticed he only had the left side. I assumed he had shed the right side, until he finally came to a stop on the other side of a bush I was hiding behind, a mere 5 feet away! Anyway, he stood there for about 30 seconds, no bloody pedicle, or anything on his head. He then turned back up the field edge. When he did, I saw a huge knot on his back, on the left side that was an obvious heal over spot.
When I was talking to my buddy about it later, he knew the deer. He had hit it high in the back the prior year and never found the deer or his arrow. That area was developed to build a new hospital the following year, so I never saw that deer again.
Back in the 1980's my Dad killed a nice buck that had been shot with what looked like a rifle wound in one front leg just a couple inches under the brisket. The wound was healed but the leg was drawn up and stiff. The deer was having no trouble getting around. That buck has the weirdest antlers. But both of his antlers are nearly matched. There doesn't seem to be any favoritism between left and right side. His G2's lay flat backwards and his G3's turn in level with the main beam. I call him "Flat Top" because he could have stood on his head on those antlers.
Amazing animal!
What do you think this guys antlers will look like next year.
http://trophypursuit.com/chris/2012/11/28/unreal-and-rare-video-ouch-thats-gotta-hurt/
Over the years I have killed 3 deer with bad injuries that had healed.
The first was an 8pt that had apparently been shot through the leg just above it's hoof. The hole was huge, you could see light through it, it's foot flopped around as it walked, the shattered bone and wound were healed. Antlers normal.
The second, a spike whose antlers dropped below it's eyes and curled up like elf shoes. It had 3 healed broken legs, the right front hoof was turned almost completely backwards and had exposed bleached bone on the out side of it's hide.
The third, a 3pt whose left antler was swinging loose before the season, hanging along side it's face. A month into the hunting season when I shot him the antler had "stiffened", but still hanging with some velvet still on it. When I caped it for a European mount, the antler went "limp" again (scar tissue had kept it stiff) when I removed it, the skull was shattered, it had not fully healed yet. Very tough animals!!
Flat Top. I dusted him off.
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8070/8248866802_18e7948e8d_c.jpg)
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8490/8248867486_8245ba969f_c.jpg)
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8200/8248869654_9d667919b9_c.jpg)
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8064/8248872488_9cb7ee7a9e_c.jpg)
Somewhere I have picks of at least 2 of these deer that I will try and post...
Flat top indeed! :)
Back in the eighties I killed a buck with a decent four point on one side and a three inch, pencil sized spike on the other.
He had one normal testicle, and one tiny one...I don`t know if the other deer made fun of him or not. :D
He seemed to be involved in the rut like any other buck, I watched him rub his eyes and forehead on an existing rubbed tree, and he smelled like a November buck smells.
I was using a compound bow at that time, so I can`t post the pics.
I shot this buck a couple years back. The second time I saw him he appeared to have a little limp. Looked like the limp was coming from his hind end somewhere. We gave him the nickname the gimp. The next afternoon I killed him He was missing one half of his hoof on his front left leg.
Here is a short video that you can kinda see his limp sorry for the unsteady camera.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNfBuIEM6lY
His rack was not affected
(http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k313/wcocke/F9C60241-ABCE-46F1-9E37-09A5E048F862-1390-000001E533AB41C0.jpg)
Sorry took me a while to find this pix. Not related to the antler/injury discussion.
This doe showed up at our bird feeder a few years ago with the chunk missing from her back leg. We saw her for about two months. I'm sure the Coyotes finally dragged her down. She could put some weight on it and got around Ok.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v196/Kagyone/tn.jpeg)
Since rifle season has ended here I am very happy to see these 2 hitting the corn. And even more happy they are on my place instead of the neighbors!
I'm not sure what happened to the buck with the abnormal side to his antlers. I have not seen either of these two during daylight hours while hunting. I only have a few pictures of them feeding together.
Interesting to see and read everyone's stories. I could only wish this buck would heal up and turn into what Uncle Wensel has to show off there!
(http://images.imagelinky.com/1355321604.JPG) (http://images.imagelinky.com/1355321604.JPG)