I've seen video, although I can not remember where, of an older bowhunter file sharpening his broadheads and once sharp, finishing the edge by "notching/serrating" the edge. It looked like he held the file from the opposite end and raked it down across the finished edge to give it a saw cutting effect. Does anyone know what I'm trying to describe? Is there a video, or some pics to show the method? How effective is it? Thanks...Ed.
I'm not sure about "notching" but if you raise a burr then stand it up without removing it has a "grabby" serrated effect.
I personally see no need for serrating a broadhead. I don't see how it can be any more effective. Serrated knives I have are made for sawing, like a slice of bread. We don't "saw" when we shoot an animal.
One of the Wensels had an article in TBM years ago about serrating broadheads. Maybe you can find that.
Sorry if I got away from your question, I just wonder why you would want to serrate them?
I'm more interested in the process I saw used by the old bowhunter. It appeared that he used just the thin edge of the file and raked it down along the sharpened edge from the point to the rear. He did it quite quickly with just one stroke. More or less, I'd like to know the history behind this process. I'm very curious to learn who used this method of file sharpening.
That may have been Fred Bear you're thinking of.
Charlie Lamb has an excellent tutorial st this link:
http://tradgang.com/noncgi/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=
Here's the method I use.
http://www.bowyersedge.com/broadhead.html
Maybe it was Fred Bear, can't remember. So far, I can not find anything relating to the method which I'm trying to describe.
I've been sharpening broadheads with a file since the 60's and have gotten pretty good at it. Some are easier than others.
I want to find out why someone would take the time to file sharpen a broadhead and then rake the the narrow portion of the file across the edge to improve it. It would appear to do just the opposite.
Yeah, Howard Hill did this and called it a sawtooth edge. He said it was more durable when moving through bone/cartledge.
Using the edge of the file and holding the front end of it here is what you do:
1. hold the arrow in your left hand with the broadhead horizontal and pointing toward your chest,
2. hold the file in your right hand by the front end of the file,
3. position the file vertically at the edge of the broadhead and angle it at 45 degrees from horizontal with the top of the file slanting away from you. Then positon the file 45 degrees from vertical with the top of the file slanting to the left or over the top of the broadhead,
4. with the file in positon described in #3 rake the file across the cutting edge of the broadhead from the back to the tip,
5. Repeat for all four edges. You'll have to alternate file hands for two of the edges.....you'll see.
Howard Hill did this in one of his videos and described what he was doing and why.
A sharp stick will kill an animal if placed in the right path. Although I am not one who thinks shaving sharp is required, I also don't think serrated blades are the way to go.
A thread ages ago brought the comment " when I eat a steak I grab a serrated knife". Yup, and for cooked meat they are the bomb. I don't hunt pre-cooked deer (but if I ever do. . . ).
ChuckC
Thanks Pete! That's what I was trying to describe. I'm wondering how many archers actually use this method. I'm going to try it on a couple 190 grain Ribteks just to see what happens.
http://smg.beta.photobucket.com/user/Patterson/media/Sawteeth.jpg.html
I only serrate one stroke per edge, as per the Hill instructions, it is the method we have used on several dozen of deer kills with Hills, my own single bevel Hills, Grizzlies, Deltas and Hunter's Heads. I am always asked if it pulls hair through the wound, that has never happened with any our deer kills.
http://www.3riversarchery.com/images/misc/SharpeningHowardHillHeads.jpg
Ed,
I remember Jim Abel who bought Harry Elburg's broadhead business first demonstrating that at a shoot...
He did exactly what you were describing and then would take the broadhead and put it against his thumb and the "little teeth" that were formed from raking the file down would hold it right there...
I never understood the purpose, but that was the way he did it...
Jonathan
first true serrating is done with a small chainsaw file and leave a true serrated (Buzzcut type) edge. What you guys are describing is not serration but is a rough file leaving a wire edge. I serrate all my two piece heads with four serrations on the back of the blade on each side and have done so for many years/ They will not pass an artery or blood vessle without cutting it like a smooth blade will. It is not necessary to serrate the entire edge but they definately do cut better. Meat is meat and blood vessles are blood vessles and a serrated , sharp edge cuts better.
God bless you all, Steve
If you are after penetration, it's been basically proven a clean, shaving sharp edge is what you are looking for. Dr Ashby has written a pretty detailed account about how effective it is, and in what designs, and until someone is able to study and prove otherwise, I'll stick with his results whenever choosing and sharpening a broadhead.
I disagree with meat and serrations. I use very sharp kitchen steak knives, no serrations, and they make short work of any meat. My gutting knife is equally effective in splitting through whatever part of hide, cartilage, and the like.
Not just my opinion...
My friend did some of his broadheads this way and he used a checkering file to do it. There was an article in TB I think, about it, but this was probably 12-15 years ago. He made 4-5 serations on each side of the 2 blade broadhead, at the back of the head. With a checking file you cut all the serations at once. He cut the serations and then sharpened the heads. Wicked looking and he killed some animals with them.
Here are links to the videos you are looking for. file sharpening/ serrating (http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=17;t=000002)
Drag the edge of the file across the sharpened edge then stand it up on the other side using the same edge.
A razor's edge through bone, the razor's edge will no longer be, put jagged edge through bone you will still have teeth left to cut with.
I've been known to use both razor smooth edges or heavily serrate . It depends more on where I am and what I'm doing... if I'm field sharpening with a file I do the serrate thing. If I'm at home prepping for the hunt I do the honed razor edge.
As long as the edge cuts every thing it touches it matters not which style edge you choose.
you might want to check your local regs first though, here in OR mechanical, serrated and barbed broadheads are illegal for big game.
Would they harass you for a non-scalloped appearing, micro burred, edge on a smooth appearing beveled edge? That is just embarrassing.
This is illegal? (http://i688.photobucket.com/albums/vv247/pukingguts/DSCF5611124181918_std_zps6c76b75c.jpg)
How lazy are they? can't even research the effectiveness. What a bunch of lazy slugs.
A couple of years back my wife using a Darton recurve that was 42 pounds at 28", she pulled to about 26&1/4". A large doe came behind her while she was sitting on a downed tree trunk, it passed by her at about 4 yards. As it was leaving it turned a bit giving her a shooting window, but just as she released the doe jumped. The arrow struck the right rear hip, cut a slot in the hip bone and continued all the way through and buried ferule deep low in the front left scapula. The arrow was a 420 grain tapered cedar, left wing fletched with a right wing 125 grain original Grizzly, file sharpened, simply filing the main bevel from heavy to light strokes, I flipped the head with one short stroke flat on the back, one light stroke on the main bevel, and then a single serration with the teeth of a Grizzly file from back to front on the flat side edge. That poor doe did not stand a chance with that hit. Not saying a thing against shaving sharp, most of the time I make her arrows shaving sharp. This time I merely wanted her to have a couple of extra arrows in case the birds came through. I did not expect her to shoot a deer with the older arrow. This was the way we used the Grizzly heads when they first came out. Most of our arrows were made right wing in those days, but a few were done with left wing feathers. I myself had switched to left wing bevel Hills with left wing arrows for my right hand longbows, but a few of hers were done with left wing fletching and right wing broadheads. I know that technically that it is wrong, but every deer hit with the miss matched combo put the deer down fast. This was the only time that one of them did not get a pass through, but then considering it was only a 37 or 38 pound bow at her draw and the arrow was only 420 grains and hip bone and the low end of the scapula got in the way, results are results.
A good "serrated" broadhead edge appears much like a well sharpened axe or hatchet edge. "Serrated" is not visible as seperate teeth to the naked eye. I believe the original poster, and several subsequent tips, are just referring to the process of feathering an edge and then clearing the feather with a single file pass against the prior passes. It will still pop arm hair or slice a rubber band held with the slack just taken up lightly between thumb and inder finger (a great test for a proper edge)
Here you go. All three heads below are file sharpened intially. The Magnus II on the left is then honed on ceramic stones while the other two are "serrated" with the file. You'd need an 10X loupe to spot it.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v169/Stumpkiller/Bowhunting/HPIM2178.jpg)
QuoteOriginally posted by swampthing:
Would they harass you for a non-scalloped appearing, micro burred, edge on a smooth appearing beveled edge? That is just embarrassing.
This is illegal? (http://i688.photobucket.com/albums/vv247/pukingguts/DSCF5611124181918_std_zps6c76b75c.jpg)
How lazy are they? can't even research the effectiveness. What a bunch of lazy slugs.
as screwed up as this state is anymore they'd probably throw the book at you. If you don't remember I wanted to donate a bunch of rattler skins but the state informed me I'd be violating the law. That taught me to check and re check the regs about everything. That's why I said I'd double check, the south dosn't seem to be near as screwed up as the west but it doesn't hurt to check.
Stone heads are an exception. Obsidian may be knappped to a sharper edge than is possible with steel. Flint too?
Kind of neat, really, how the oldest, natural tools are still so effective.
Pavan, that's impressive penetration!
I know when the Grizzly heads were introduced, basically a file sharpened edge, wire and all, with a final backwards drag for serration was recommended, and demonstrated. It's effective, but I have personally experienced a dramatic improvement in all aspects of blood trails, distance game travels, and penetration once I figured out how to get them scary sharp. Ashby's experiments have payed off for me. I use diamond stones.
I do a serrated file edge with a round chainsaw file..filing from back to front. Filing one side also like the grizzlys on all ny heads. Heads blow through game and good blood trails.
I think one of the reasons steak knives are usually serrated is that they are usually used to cut meat on a porcelain plate. The serrations stay sharp because they don't contact the plate - just the high spots. I'm not sure that applies to shooting through a deer, even if it hits bone.
buy the DVD from Terry Green. Helped me alot
I have been using a 3/16" round Grobet file some this year. On the Grizzly head sometimes it seems that I have used too much pressure, because the rough edge seems to want to roll over a bit more than I would like. I use a stroke with a flat file pushed flat on the back side to pick that up and make it stand up a bit.
Pete, Pavan, and Charlie, thanks so much for the links! It shows exactly what I was trying to describe. I've never tried this method before, but I will now. It's an old time method and most interesting to me. I'm amazed I havn't heard more about it. It has to be old fashion for Harry to have used it Jonathan. Thanks to all for the interesting comments.