Just reading the heavy bow thread and was curious where string material comes into play.
Basically, will a high performance string make up for lower weight bow?
Compared to a b-50 dacron, yes it will. I gained enough fps to equate to 5-7 pounds of pull depending on the bow. YMMV
Quite an improvement. What type of string?
SBD 6 strand and 8 strand, depending on bow weight.
Thanks, I'll definitely be ordering one of those.
I hear so many good things about them.
SBDs are great strings. I had one on a hybrid longbow and loved it. I will say, I did not experience some of the tuning situations that others have.
Check out Braveheart Archery. Tims a sponsor here and has a good selection of SBD strings on hand. Braveheart is also first class all the way.
YES,, I got a 8 strand SBD and the performance turned my 50 Pittsley into a 60# pittsley, after bare shafting I needed stiffer spine from 150's to 250's with same point weight and could hear the fletch sizzling from 25yds away..
SO before over bowing yourself which results in bad accuracy and wounded animals, go with a lesser strand string and start picking a spot 6" lower than you usually do.
Just make sure first that your bow can handle it.
My experience mirrors the others on my Toelke Chinooks. Swapping from factory strings to SBD gave me #5 more performance.
Are the SBDS comparable to angel majesty strings?
don't know but they have wrapped loops and I opt for the installed silencers and they are quiet, to me they sound like a low braced B50 recurve. I also went max on the brace for stability and I still gained more speed.
I'm ordering one for my 52# alleghany MTN bow because even though it bare shafts the same arrow as my 50# palmer recurve it hits about 5" lower in the target at 27yds (bare shaft tuned) where speed is a factor and the 570gr arrow with big shields runs out of gas after 20yds,,,, I really try to keep the bows here shooting the same arrows and keep bows based alot on that so I'm betting the SBD string will even things out between the two bows,,,,,, I wont get one for my Palmer Classic because I have about 80 Heritage arrows here all made up and I don't want to be messing with that many arrows,, the preditor only had 10 arrows before the string so it was my demo bow.
the strings really are Awesome! if you do not bare shaft your shafts then you might not even notice any flight difference but not sure about broadhead flight but if you do bare shaft your shafts you will notice a weaker spine after the new string, SO just max out the brace/fistmele and/or drop point weight then order a few more stirngs because you will not go back.
Keep in mind where you come from. I mean, how many strands does your current strings have and how many will the SBD have?
It is my experience that you can say as rule of thumb that you will gain 1 fps for every strand less. So if you move from 16 strands to 8, you will probably gain 8 fps and that is a huge difference! This is where tuning comes to mind. When you go from 10 to 8, the difference in speed will be much less noticeable,but it sure will make your bow more quiet.
Follow the directions on the SBD site how to measure the lenght you need, or ask Pierre.Ordering the right lenght is important.
Wow.. I never thought about string strands making such a difference.. I could understand multiple string silencers but this has really opened my eyes..I will be ordering an SBD thanks guys!!!
As said above be sure your bow can handle the skinny fast flight strings. A lot of fast flight safe bows can handle the skinnier strings but it is transmitting more energy back to the limbs as well as the arrow.
An SBD 6-strand string will make a 50# recurve shoot like a 60# recurve -- at least that is my experience. The speed is impressive and the spine you need to be shooting will change because of the string.
They are amazing strings that maximize the power of a fast flight bow.
Jeez thats right the 6 strand,, rememeber though on both the 6 and 8 strand his string loops are built up I think with dacron so the loops look normal size.
QuoteOriginally posted by jkcerda:
Are the SBDS comparable to angel majesty strings?
I personally like angel majety more then SBD. Just seem to shoot my bows better with it
I put some SBDs on my bow a while back. I went from a generic FF to an 8 strand SBD. I don't have chrono numbers, but there was a noticable improvement in speed. The SBD was so much faster I had to buy stiffer arrows. I'll take that problem any day.
I think SBD strings are the best avilable on the market these days. Add Pierre to that who gives a great service and you won't ever look back!
I've made my own and used strings by the usual suspects and have never noticed the kind of gains others are talking about. On a chronograph the only time a string was faster are those of endless construction are faster than flemish. I think going up in weight will pay more dividends on performance than strings will.
Why should I go up in weight if I can get the same performance by using a different string? As I said ,the biggest gain will be going from b-50 to a skinny HP string. One bow in particular, I had to increase my arrow spine by 15lbs(40-45 to 55-60), but most were 10lbs of spine.
I also noticed about a 10lb spine difference. Love my Barbee string.
Going to a high performance string will not give you the same gains as going up 5 pounds of draw. Period. It is not my opinion, it is a fact. Put the hype aside and put it on a chronograph yourself.
sounds good,,, who out there has a chrono and still has one of their old strings around? test the difference in speed and then do a set of shots drawing the bow back an extra inch to see what the difference is,,,,,,, its a rough estimate but we'll get some cool numbers I think.
Jon, if you're getting different results than everyone else, maybe you've got something else going on.
Every bow I have put a skinny string on (two longbows and a production recurve) has picked up speed and dropped noise.
Matter of fact, there's no way speed could NOT go up. You're dropping weight off of the string. The limbs have no choice but to recover faster with less weight holding them back.
Onestringer has a comparison of high performance strings on his website that is well done. The type of performance gains people attribute to this is the same as saying a 50# with a skinny string and a 600 gr arrow is going to launch that same arrow with the same performance as a 60# bow with a conventional string. Thats the same thing as saying you gain the performance of 10 lbs of draw by changing the string. Just the speed isn't enough either, how about the cast of the arrow? Just changing a string will not pay the same returns as draw weight.
Look I don't want to get into an argument so I'll clarify my official position with this last statement.
Going up in draw weight will always add more performance (that is speed, power, and cast) than just upgrading the string on your bow.
People sold on Dyneema's magical properties will never accept that statement nor will they test it to see for themselves. So with my position clear I will bow out of this conversation.
I am sorry. We have chronoed several bows with the "old" string and with the "new" SBD skinny string, 6 or 8 strands. We used a good a good shooting chrony with a reliable read-out.
The speed we measured was every time clearly going up with the SBD strings. After we were warmed upo enough, we started some serious measuring. To be sure we shot each bow 20 times trough the chrony, 10 times with the old string and 10 times with the SBD string. As sad, this was depending on how many strands the old string had. We worked with averages, because we afre nor shooting machines. We held the averages very conservative. As rule of thumb we concluded that a SBD string increases your speed with at least 2 fps per 2 strands less. Sometimes we doubted if it shoudn't be 3 fps, but we kept it on a conservative 2 fps.
That was our (some serious fellow archers) conclusion after an afternoon testing. It was tested with 4 bows: two recurves and two hybrid longbows. All between the 45 and 52 lbs drawweight. All diffent strand counts on the old strings, all SBD 6 or 8 skinny strings as new strings. Each bow was shot every time with exactly the same arrow for measuring.
These were our true and honest measurements.
We also found out, that in the most extreme case, going from 16 strands to 6, the difference in spine would be 5 lbs or a lower front weight with 25 grains.
bigbadjohn, just want to clarify here--are you suggesting that 2 like arrows of the same weight, going the same speed, will not have the same "cast" because of the string they just left? The arrow doesn't know what kind of bow, string, or anything else launched it. It is just traveling a given speed and will follow the laws of physics. I really don't care that much as I'm not into speed--my set-ups work just fine as they are, but I'm just pointing out the flaw in the thinking of some folks regarding these issues. Unless somebody has proof to the contraray, I will remain of the belief that two identical arrows of, say, 500 grains, traveling at let's say 185 fps will go the same distance regardless of the bow weight or string material that launched them. Am I wrong here? Not a physicist but just seems common sense to me.
I said:
Going up in draw weight will always add more performance (that is speed, power, and cast) than just upgrading the string on your bow.
That is fact. That is my final answer. No clarification necassary.
I have done a bit of testing on this stuff myself-my conclusion is that all this really comes down to is the weight of the old string compared to the new one. If you replace a 16 strand dacron with a 16 strand FF and the strings have an equal weight your gain will be zero. If you knock off 70 grains; which is quite realistic by the way, you can have a new arrow that is 70 grains heavier, traveling at your former speed, or same weight arrow traveling at an increased speed. Yes you will have some tuning to do, which is expected. The bonus for me has always been a more quiet bow even if I left the arrow weight the same as before. Others may have different experiences. :thumbsup:
QuoteOriginally posted by bigbadjon:
I said:
Going up in draw weight will always add more performance (that is speed, power, and cast) than just upgrading the string on your bow.
That is fact. That is my final answer. No clarification necassary.
sure, if both bows are in all other respects the same. But, if you want to improve the performance of the bow you have, a lighter string is a great way to do it.
I just weighed a 63", 10 strand (16 in the loops), Dynaflight '97 flemish string with 8" served with .024 Halo serving. It weighs 128 grains on my digital scale.
Each of those 10 strands weighs 7-8 grains. Drop 4 strands, you dropped maybe 30 grains (on a 63" string--less on a shorter string).
This drop is over the entire length of the string--from the ends where the weight has very little effect, to the center that has the most effect.
Add whatever it takes to get a proper nock fit (padding under the serving, double-served, etc.) back to the string.
Draw your own conclusions.
I increased my speed by a minimum of 10fps. The accepted norm is 2fps for every pound increase in draw weight. That to me is a 5 pound increase in performance.
Well, my naked eye can't tell if it is any faster, but the target is definitely rocking more so I'm assuming I picked up a bit of speed. It still shoots quiet as well. I'm satisfied.
More than likely you did pick up a little bit of performance--60 grains off the string is enough to notice on most bows, especially lighter draw weights. It takes a calibrated crony and a Hooter Shooter to get the details.
Hooter Shooter??????? :laughing: Sorry, couldn't help it.
Yeah...danged if I know how they came up with the name. Got to admit, it gets attention.
Bigbadjon,,, I understand where you are coming from. I know I notice speed with my new strings but in reality its all theory without actual proof. now if I'm assuming my 50# bow now shoots like a 6olb bow because of the lighter string I just can't proove it but I understand that drawing a bow 10pounds more could be faster with a normal FF string or B-50 string I'm not even sure what string.
Is there anyone here that has a bow with two sets of limbs with a 10# difference,, hopefully the lighter one has a low strand string,,, not to get anyone fired up bI'm just curious now what the outcome would be.
and no offence to anyone but my original post was to avoid overbowing yourself and gain speed by going lighter on the string,,, by all means if you can handle 60# then do that if you have the money and still get the 8 strand string and you will have the best of both worlds..
If the arrows are going faster, it means they are having more energy transferred to them. They are 'carrying' more force. If you can measure this energy in a meaningful and consistent way (i.e. speed changes between strings on the same bow with the same arrow with the same weight) then you can even quantify that energy - just as you would draw weight.
People in this thread have tested these strings and found they increase speed (and therefore energy) in arrows of the same weight from the same bows. That is proof - not simply theory. Whether you accept that proof depends on how much scientific rigor you expect, but it's certainly not just theory.
The subject of string weight is discussed in a lot of detail in Trad Bowyer's Bible (forget which volume). Basically, the limbs can do a set amount of work. If less of that work goes into moving the weight of the string, the arrow goes faster. Obviously, a heavier bow has the potential to do even more work, but why not squeeze every bit of energy out of every bow?
Going from a 10 to an 8 strand string probably won't do much for you, but if you are using a generic string (typically 18 strands) you're losing a lot of energy in the string. I saw such a big difference in performance in my bows between the generic and skinny strings that I'll never use another generic.
I have seven bows with 9 strand ultra cam strings on them. Did have 10, but I sold three recently.
There has been a good speed increase with every bow, but the increase varied from one bow to the next. All of these bows are shot with 10 grains of arrow weight per pound of bow draw weight.
The lowest gain I got was 6fps. The highest was 13fps, and what surprised me most was that the highest speed gain was on my next to lowest draw weight bow.
All are super quiet, and very stable to shoot now. Even my old 70# grandma longbow is smooth as butter to shoot now with no hand shock. It used to make my hand numb after 4 or 5 shots.
Coming back to this I will give you a bit of information to think about. I just weighed my standard 16 strand string with loops padded to 18 strands single served for correct nock fit and it weighed 96 grains. I then weighed an 8 strand string with loops padded to 18 strands. This string had to be double served to make it work with my nocks. It weighed 72 grains. Keep in mind that the double serving probably adds a bit of weight but the string would not be usable due to no nocks fitting on it. 24 grains difference on a 59" string is not going to make hardly any difference at all. I also don't want to put my limbs on the line with the skinny string because with such few strands it is inherently easier to get cut while hunting.
JakesKerr
I understand your point, but the opposite point is made in my post above by saving 60 grains in string difference.
I suppose (as always) it comes down to experimentation for each archer.
The string weight thing really got my curiosity going, so I just weighed two different strings for the same 66" bow.
Both strings have been shot in, but I removed the silencers, and nock points before weighing them.
String 1 - 14 strand dynaflight 97 - 109gr - arrow speed with this string was 187 fps when set up with wool silencers, and double nock points
String 2 - 9 strand ultra cam, with loops padded to 18 strands, and serving padded & sized for mercury speed nocks - 79gr - arrow speed with this string was 196 fps with the same wool silencers, and double nock points.
The speed results were when using the same 9.2 gpp arrows with each string.
I use to be a non believer. Not anymore.