I am going to start buying Kuiu gear over the next month in preparation for my upcoming hunts. I want to see what you guys feel is the better choice between the Vias pattern and Verde pattern.
I mainly (75%) hunt whitetails, hogs, and turkeys in the north central part of Texas. Its a combination of treestands,tripods, and ground blinds and I also spot and stalk hogs in the spring and summer. The terrain is mostly live oaks, mesquites, and no cedars.
I have an DIY backpack elk hunt in Co. during the archery season coming up as well as a spring bear hunt in 2013. I will eventually start expanding into whitetails in the Midwest (KS, IA in 2014), caribou and moose (2014/2015), and Aus buff, Africa, etc. in the future.
I consider the Kuiu an investment for my future hunts and dont mind spending the money for the quality. I just want to make sure I pick the pattern that will be suited for the different terrains.
I know that there are a lot of guys that use Kuiu hunting in the different terrains and I would like to hear your opinions and thoughts.
I hunt hogs every year in Texas. I would go with the verde it blends in well with all the surroundings you just described. I'm very impressed with the verde camo this fall in the whitetail woods.
I just purchased a few items from them myself. In my honest opinion, the VIAS is the most versatile....and the pattern I chose with little hesitation. It has similar characterists and profile shapes/shade contrasts as other top notch camo (PREDATOR, A.S.A.T!) If animals see the way they've been saying they do for years now, the VIAS seems like better medicine. Go with the VIAS and sleep easy I say :thumbsup:
here i my thoughts from experience of owning and hunting in 4 different states in past 2 years.
Pro
The attack pants are perfect, they fuzz pretty quick ( southern briars) but made right. can walk all day in them in 110 degrees to 30 degrees.
Wool is light and dry quick
Open Camo i am a big fan, they nailed it.
Vest is perfect, light, warm and fits tight.
great t-hirts
I wear the truckers logo hat every other day.
Cutting edge of outer wear fabric
Con
Arizona bush ripped 180 wool with no problem. Do not wear Merino wool as an outer layer.
Which brings me to my second beef.. They have NO pocket shirt in their line. NONE!! remember this is a company built on Ultra Light MOUNTAIN hunting.
HEY Jason......how about a shirt??? broaden your marketing to us redneck stalkers.
joebuck- Thanks for the information. So you think the Vias pattern is the most versatile overall? Would you wear it hunting turkeys in the South? (By the way, I was in Oxford for the Texas vs Ole Miss game, I should have tried to have dinner or lunch with you when I was there)
DirtyBird- I like the verde pattern, but afraid it might suffer from the blobbing affect.
LMNOS- Thanks!
Bingo Jace! the "blobbing affect" you speak of....thats what you don't want! The VIAS is more of a broken-up pattern and IMHO way less apt to come across in anythings eye sight as a blob. Gotta be great for the thickets, swamps, timber and sticks......where ever you end up I'd say! What they SHOULD do at KUIU, is incorporate color/hue variations within the VIAS! That way, you'd have your green-ish VIAS for spring turkey and such. White VIAS for the snow, predator hunting....see you where I'm going with it!?
Hey 4B thanks for that scull dragging! How in the hell ya'll didnt give Johnny Football a scholarship makes me think Mack needs a brain transplant.
It works on Rio's..... now for SouthernEasterns....?????.....different bird :)
(http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i150/jmb1221/nebraskakuiu-1.jpg)
Joebuck- Rios is all I got, so totaaly sold on the Vias pattern.
Totally shocked me about that game. I thought with a young team that it would be a lot closer, especially at Ole Miss. Ole Johnny Footballl? Well, lets just say that the Texas staff recruited and signed a kid that makes Vince Young look slow and Colt McCoy inaccurate. They signed a kid from deep east Texas that needs about 2 years before he can be turned loose. I think Texas passed on JF because they wanted him as more of a Wes Welker type receiver and he was stuck on playing QB.
LMNOS- i see where you are going and I like it!
I have both and don't notice any blob bing affect. Just look at the kuiu blog and see what it looks like in the mountains.
Either way I think it is a good choice.
I am hopefully going to be able to puchase some KUIU for when I move out to Missoula, looking into the VIAS pattern for big game, and possibly Verde (If I can talk my wife into letting me buy it) for turkeys
Does anyone know anything about the super down filled parka? Looking for something that can be used as a good outer layer for COLD Midwestern treestand sits.
Both patterns are great, get some of both. The animals don't care if you match
Verde should be good for most purposes, but outstanding for spring turkey hunting. For everything other than turkey, I like the Vias better. I would also prefer a green Vias over the Verde pattern for turkey. With the Vias, I have had whitetail deer standing 10 feet from me under my stand staring right at me and still not be able to find anything dangerous. They finally just lose their interest and mill around below me like I'm not there. To me, some other camo patterns look better, but it's the animals' perception that counts, not mine. No other camo pattern has worked better in avoiding detection from animals I am hunting (except turkeys) than Vias, and I have used all of the best camo made.
If I were you, I would buy the Vias camo, and when going after turkeys in the spring, put on a different top that has colors that more closely match the typically green surroundings. Remember, unlike ungulates, turkeys have excellent color vision. A couple of years ago, I set up in a patch of green bushes while wearing an ASAT leafy suit -- one of the best forms of camouflage ever made. When the turkeys came within 70 yards of me, they immediately saw me, even though I was not moving at all, and would not come any closer. They saw the brown and tan colors of the ASAT in a field of green bushes. I set up a pop-up blind in the same spot and sat there the next day. The green camo ground blind did not spook the turkeys at all, and I got a shot when they walked by. The Vias would have worked better than the ASAT, but Verde or some other green-colored camo would have been the best.
I love the Kuiu Attack Pants and wear the solid colors almost every day to work and everywhere else. For much of my hunting, I prefer the Guide Pants because they are made of soft shell material that rarely snags or picks up plant materials. The Guide Pants are also warmer, which can be good or bad, but I love them and will definitely get another pair.
I have been encouraging Jason from the start to design a light-weight collared shirt made from synthetic material that has button down flap pockets and can be layered as part of the Kuiu clothing system. I have not yet seen the perfect shirt for that can be worn alone for hot weather or layered with other clothing as the temperatures drop -- sometimes becoming very low. I bet Jason could create a great shirt of that type.
You can't go wrong with Kuiu. Their new DWR-treated down jackets look nice, but I'm going to wait to hear the reviews before I buy. I'm highly invested in PrimaLoft jackets, including the Kuiu Spindrift, so I want to have more information before I decide to buy down again for the hunting conditions I typically encounter.
Allan
I had several pieces of the Vias camo, and I sold 100% of it last summer. I'm not a high-contrast camo fan for close range encounters. As soon as I saw Verde, I was pretty well convinced that KUIU had just introduced the pattern which would ultimately out-sell Vias. Time will tell whether or not that happens. I now own several items in Verde, and I'm confident that nothing better exists in close-range camo today.
I had several pieces of the Vias camo, and I sold 100% of it last summer. I'm not a high-contrast camo fan for close range encounters. As soon as I saw Verde, I was pretty well convinced that KUIU had just introduced the pattern which would ultimately out-sell Vias. Time will tell whether or not that happens. I now own several items in Verde, and I'm confident that nothing better exists in close-range camo today.
Verde looks very good, especially when turkey hunting (as I said) or close up hunting. It also does very well at longer distances. As I said before, the Vias does not look as effective to my human eyes as some other patterns, such as the Verde, but my experience with actual animals looking at me while wearing Vias tells me that it, like ASAT and some of the Predator camos, is actually more effective in fooling animals than it is at fooling people, while some of the other patterns have the opposite effect. The perfect hunting camo would let all the other humans see me clearly while none of the prey animals could recognize me as the predator I am. Vias doesn't make me obvious to other humans, but it sure has kept me from being recognized by the animals I am hunting (even when I have been closely examined by deer from just 10 feet away). That said, Verde is a great pattern that should do the job very well, and do it better in some conditions when hunting some animals.
Kevin, did you sell the Vias because animals were spooking when looking at you while standing/sitting still, or did you simply prefer the way the Verde looked to you? I'm interested to hear other folks' experiences as opposed to relying exclusively on my own. I know Curt Cabrera has described the same reaction by deer to Vias as what I stated here. Also, can you tell us about your experience with the reaction of animals when you have worn Verde and how that compares? I know you are a very experienced and savvy hunter, and I greatly value your observations and opinions.
Allan
Is this Verde camo good for the northern woods? I am in the market for some new camo for the early season archery here in Pa.
I just bought the verde 185 &230 zip t and it blends in perfect out west with the pine timber, grass and sage floor.
Jace, I've taken a bunch of pix over the years since I started using KUIU. My first hunts were in proto-types that Jason sent me to test out.
I recieved the Vias proto-type gear in late December and put it to use the next day on a late season doe here in NY...she looked right thru me just seconds before I shot her.
Then in early jan. I took the gear to TX and shot two hogs and a nice buck wearing the proto's. These were ulta skittish deer that know where the stands are. he looked right up at me, but he also never acted like he saw a thing...I killed him a couple minutes later at 12yds.
Since then I've killed a bunch of deer and a few more hogs wearing Vias.
This fall I got some Verde and also think it's great! Not quite as sharply contrasting, slightly toned down...but still much better contrast than most other patterns. I've used it all fall and had several close encounters with deer that had no clue I was around. One 6pt even looked right up at me from the very base of my tree after sniffing my treestep...looked thru me...never spooked...just lost interest and walked away.
No "blobbing effect" whatsoever in my opinion. Here's some in-the-field pix of Verde from this fall...
• (http://www.tradgang.com/upload/curt/v-vkuiu001.JPG)
• (http://www.tradgang.com/upload/curt/v-vkuiu002.JPG)
• (http://www.tradgang.com/upload/curt/v-vkuiu004.JPG)
• (http://www.tradgang.com/upload/curt/v-vkuiu005.JPG)
• (http://www.tradgang.com/upload/curt/v-vkuiu006.JPG)
• (http://www.tradgang.com/upload/curt/v-vkuiu007.JPG)
• (http://www.tradgang.com/upload/curt/v-vkuiu008.JPG)
• (http://www.tradgang.com/upload/curt/v-vkuiu009.JPG)
• (http://www.tradgang.com/upload/curt/v-vkuiu010.JPG)
• (http://www.tradgang.com/upload/curt/v-vkuiu011.JPG)
• (http://www.tradgang.com/upload/curt/v-vkuiu012.JPG)
• (http://www.tradgang.com/upload/curt/v-vkuiu013.JPG)
• (http://www.tradgang.com/upload/curt/v-vkuiu014.JPG)
• (http://www.tradgang.com/upload/curt/v-vkuiu015.JPG)
• (http://www.tradgang.com/upload/curt/v-vkuiu016.JPG)
• (http://www.tradgang.com/upload/curt/v-vkuiu017.JPG)
• (http://www.tradgang.com/upload/curt/v-vkuiu018.JPG)
• (http://www.tradgang.com/upload/curt/v-vkuiu019.JPG)
• (http://www.tradgang.com/upload/curt/v-vkuiu020.JPG)
• (http://www.tradgang.com/upload/curt/v-vkuiu021.JPG)
• (http://www.tradgang.com/upload/curt/v-vkuiu022.JPG)
• (http://www.tradgang.com/upload/curt/v-vkuiu023.JPG)
• (http://www.tradgang.com/upload/curt/v-vkuiu024.JPG)
Now that is colder I will be mostly wearing my oversized Guide Jacket and pants to allow the necessary layering...they are in Vias and I'm 100% confident it's a great choice for the bare trees of late season.
In my opinion, for the hunting you are describing, ESPECIALLY the hog and turkey hunting...Verde would be the best choice.
Although I've had close encounters on the ground with turkeys and hogs in Vias and have mostly made out ok...but from now on it'll be Verde for hogs and turks.
I have a ton of other in-the-field pix wearing Vias if you'd like to see them.
Thanks Curt. Very helpful information and pictures. Mostly, I like knowing the reaction of the animals when they are looking at you. That's the ultimate test. Sounds like you have had similar experiences with both patterns. I have always thought that Verde would be better for turkeys, as you know. Interesting to hear your thoughts on hogs too.
Allan
Allan,
I'll preface this by saying that my opinions are my own, and I'm not surprised when guys don't agree with my thoughts. I know several very good hunters who own, wear and love Vias camo. They kill game quite easily while wearing it....so I'm in no way anti-Vias.
Many years ago I wore and experimented with high contrast camo such as Skyline, Predator and others....I'm talking 20+ years back. My experiences and observations taught me that they were very effective when used against the right background and lighting. Used incorrectly, they frankly stuck out. I recall an incident where I got 'picked' 3 times in one morning wearing new Predator Fall Brown. This happened in a stand where I'd not been looked-at before. After a few more episodes of being noticed, or barely escaping such...I rid myself of it entirely. I simply had no time to spend mixing and matching camo to specific settings. The Skyline camo I used to own was remarkable at 'hiding' a hunter in a barren winter tree, like a sycamore or maple. That same pattern was a sure formula for getting noticed if I wore it against any darker background. I felt like a snowman walking out of the darkening woods in late November. I learned that high contrast is a specialty camo for me...one pattern doesn't cover most situations.
I agree that h-c camo like Vias confuses the animal eye. They don't 'see' the hunter...even if they see the camo. That's my personal problem with h-c camo at close range. I've experienced animals noticing the contrasting camo, even though they might not 'see' the man. I don't imagine this...I've seen it in action. I've watched deer pay attention to it. I think the h-c camos make me more 'catchable' at extremely close range...especially if I'm moving with a bow or stalking in tight on an animal which hasn't yet looked my way. Used against the right background, h-c can make you almost invisible...or just the opposite if used incorrectly.
The reason I sold my Vias had nothing to do with a bad experience. I think KUIU has evolved quickly into one of the best garment suppliers on the planet. I bought my Vias in anticipation of using it in Alaska moose country. Much dark green spruce cover, and larger expanses of open light-colored areas. After seeing Vias in use there...and finding it easier to pick out than other patterns...I decided mine had to go. I don't expect anyone else to see it that way...and I would never try to convince anyone that my way is the best. I just won't wear a camo that I think will eventually cost me an opportunity. I have always preferred camo which is 'softer' to the eye and more blending in its nature.
I haven't worn my Verde for deer hunting, nor will I. KUIU is ultralight gear and I didn't buy it with any thoughts of using it in Ohio. I'll only ever wear it on active hunts away from home. I'm not too surprised that guys are buying KUIU for deer and turkey hunting...but I have no plans to use mine that way. I do think the Verde pattern of 'macro on micro' (and with less overall contrast) is a far more versatile approach to camo. I also believe it will perform extremely effectively at the ultra-close ranges I enjoy. I'm watching KUIU's marketing and sales of both Vias and Verde....and I wonder if Verde is gaining ground? There is no doubt that Verde is receiving the lion's share of marketing effort and development currently. Time will tell the story.
KD
Nice post. I'm setting up a Christmas 'buy' for my wife and will go with the Vias camo (I'm a big fan of Predator). My main purpose is to buy a shell for my 2013 Caribou hunt in AK. I know the Chugach shell is perfect for fall rain but can it be used for other hunts in the lower 48's?
Curt- wow! Thanks for the pics. I went hunting this weekend and spent some time looking around the ranch and after looking at your pics I think verde will be the better option. Our ranch has a lot of live oaks which stay green year around and that's where a majority of my stands are placed for deer and hogs. Kuiu should use your pics on the web for the Verde
Amar- after reading what you stated about the ASAT and turkeys, it really sunk in after Curts pics.
I spent some time on the kuiu blog and really looked at the pics Jason had posted in the verde while hunting and the verde did a good job out in the tundra.
I can't help but think that the 185 top in Verde would be just right for some spring time hogs or turkeys
Eric lost me as a customer the day he decided to ship production to China, and not tell customers that had already ordered "made in N America" gear first.
Sorry, but its a deal breaker for me.
Kevin,
I use the Kuiu clothing for hunting in the mountains and moose country too, but it sure works well for deer hunting in Oklahoma and Texas much of the time too. I also wear a lot of Kuiu solid clothing on a daily basis -- like almost every day at work. Your points are all well taken, and I agree with many of them. When the environment is greener, the Verde is undoubtedly better most of the time. I also agree that the pattern itself in the Verde may be marginally better close up, but so are other patterns like Mountain Mimicry that have more subtle gradients in contrast. My biggest problem is lack of contrast at longer distances where animals are often looking more carefully before approaching. Once they are close, I have not noticed them being as concerned about figuring out what I am if I don't look like a human, but they don't like blobs. The Verde does represent a good compromise for both longer distances and close up, much of the same concept as the Gore Optifade. Both the Kuiu camo patterns are outstanding, in my opinion, with each having its own advantages. Like I said, there are times I prefer the Verde.
Allan
I like the pattern and the gear, I just don't like the fact that most of it is just water resistant. It's NOT waterproof similar to gor-tex. That is an awful steep price to pay for clothing that isn't Gor-tex or something similar. Personally I want to stay dry and NOT have to pack and extra rain suite. Just my 2 cents.
I do agree that KUIU (and Sitka) is just fine for deer hunting...in my case whitetails from treestands. It simply wasn't designed with that type of hunting in mind...evidenced by this quote from the KUIU website: "I wanted to make the lightest and highest performing Mountain Hunting clothing possible."
I think they're doing that, and I'm glad guys are using it for deer. I don't use it for deer, primarily because I own plenty of whitetail gear which is warmer, quieter and much better suited to treestand sitting. Most of it is also much less expensive on a per-garment basis than KUIU or Sitka. I try to always use the best gear I can for every setting or hunt. For my active hunts, it is KUIU or Sitka currently. For sedentary stuff like sitting stands for whitetails, I'll usually be found in a much softer and totally silent fabric...not a softshell. Again, that's only me and I get that guys have their individual ways.
The old Mountain Mimicry is outstanding and I still use it. So is Optifade (both) and many other patterns which offer subtle shadings and transitions within the pattern. I'm big on Predator Deception and Cabela's Outfitter Camo patterns. I do think Verde could be the pattern which outsells Vias...but who really knows? I like Verde a lot, but it's not about the green in it...it's about the patterning of the camo and the shadings which are not nearly as sharply edged as Vias pattern.
Very good discussion...and nice to see an American entrepreneur building his brand.
KD
Kevin,
I like, own and routinely use all the camo patterns you mentioned, along with ASAT, Max 1 and some others. For the sage hills I often hunt in western Oklahoma, Max 1 is nearly ideal. I also used Max 1 shirts exclusively the two times I was hunting buffalo in Australia, and it was a great pattern for the area I hunted.
You're also right about not needing Kuiu or Sitka for whitetail hunting in the flatlands and about finding other clothing quieter or warmer than most of the Kuiu and Sitka clothing. On the other hand, my Sitka Kelvin jacket, vest and pants that are worn as mid-layers are very warm, comfortable, compactable and light-weight, making them very nice when traveling, especially by plane. I also have a Kuiu Spindrift jacket that is similar to the Kelvin jacket and some Core4Element prototype PrimaLoft insulated bibs that are similar to the Kelvin pants, except having the bib portion and an integrated outer shell. The outer clothing from Kuiu, Sitka and Core4element is not as quiet as the fleece or wool that I also have in my closet, but I personally have not had much of an issue with the noise factor unless I am walking around or happen to brush against a tree or some other fairly hard surface, and they don't tend to pick up vegetation like fleece, wool and other fuzzy clothes.
Sitka has developed several clothing items specifically aimed at the whitetail hunter in cold weather, and the Forest Optifade pattern was designed, in large part, to satisfy the demands of whitetail hunters, who comprise the majority of American big game hunters. Actually, my "mountain" clothing with PrimaLoft insulation is about as warm as anything else I have, and I have already paid for it, so I don't mind using it for flatland hunting too. But I also use other less expensive clothing for whitetail hunting, like you do, and those clothes work very well too -- sometimes significantly better in certain conditions.
Heck, I have more clothes for hunting than most people have for all their clothes combined! :D It usually takes me a long time to get my gear ready for a hunt, not because I'm trying to get everything packed, but because I'm trying to decide what are the fewest items I need that are best for the conditions I will probably encounter.
Allan