Trad Gang

Is it harder to master a long bow than it is a recurve. It's kind of to late to ask this seeing that I'm hooked on Hill's, I just want to know.

Depends on the Bow... I would say.

i'd say yes but i don't have much yrs in with a longbow to be of much credit. in my opinion the longbow was just harder to tune arrow wise,,,,,for me. good luck in your shooting!

It might not be harder. I can shoot my long bows as well as my recurves except for one which I shoot better.  That makes it real easy to pick an opening day bow from the rack.

What Ron said.

Yes and no. I shot recurves for decades, then bought my first longbow, a straight stick from a very famous maker. I couldn't hit poop with it (even elephant poop)and blamed it on being "a longbow" but didn't have a clue what the difference was. In the several years since, I've moved through a complete transition so that now I shoot by far better with longbows, esp. the reflex-deflex hybrids that are currently, and correctly, very popular. What I've determined for myself is the difference between the deep handgrip of the recurve, so that the pressure and balance are between index finger and thumb, and the flat or semi-flat grip of the longbow and most hybrids, where the focus is on the heel of the hand. So today, even wonderful hybrid longbows like the Black Widow, with deeper semi-recurve grips, I can't shoot well. My selfbows and more traditional straight-handled longbows, like the Lightning, and certainly the Hills, come naturally. So, bottom line, I'd say either can be well mastered, but switching takes some practice. It's all fun. dave

It depends on the individual. I have a hard time with a bow that has a straight or a low wrist grip. I can shoot an LB as well as a curve if it has a medium or high wrist grip. Shawn

I've been shooting both for more than 40 years, though I've been shooting longbows almost exclusively for the past 15 years or so.  Recurves do have some inherent advantages.  All other things being equal, they generally draw a little smoother than longbows, they're generally faster for the same weight, which generally aids in hitting what you're shooting at, the usually larger and thus heavier riser mass adds more stability and reduces felt hand shock, and the fact that most are centershot makes them able to accept a wider range of arrow spines.  Of course, the hybrids meld most of these features with more of a longbow limb design, and they perform pretty close to most recurves, some better.

In my opinion, a Hill style bow and self-bows are among the more challenging longbows to master.

What ORION says seems to be what I find as well....I shoot both, Prefer the Long bow for some reason, But I find the ability to shoot a RC is increased.

I am sure many of you remember a quote from Howard Hill that he "was not good enough to shoot a recurve."  
 :saywhat:  
I always found that interesting.   :confused:

They are all easy to shoot well if the bow is tillered properly and you take the time to tune it and the arrows it needs.

Byron Ferguson states in a recent TB that the reason he does his trick shooting with a longbow is it is much more forgiving than a recurve. I shot a longbow better when I started but switched to a recurve because I liked the looks and genius of design about it. Now I shoot both.

I shoot better with my friends recurve. But I admire and respect the longbow more, so I hunt with my longbow. I'm not saying I shoot bad with my longbow, just sayin I shoot a little better with recurves.

I thought so, but then listened to Fred Asbell's advice...he says in one of his books that to learn a longbow, shoot nothing else for a year. I did that, and it worked. It's common sense if you think about it...dedicate some time to the bow, and you will figure it out. DON'T QUIT during the slumps!

p.s....for my money, a good locator grip is a trillion times easier to learn on than a HH style.

I switched to a lonbow last year and prefer it, I think because of the light weight.

It is harder to torque the limbs of a longbow, which tends to make them more forgiving of poor releases...I need lots of forgiveness, so I shoot better with a longbow. My 50's style recurve is close, but still not as easy to shoot well as a longbow.

You tell me bro....   I built this long bow in February, and the arrows in the photo were shot at 25 yards, and were built from 2 x 6's. These were out of the same batch I turned for you....

You think I'm ready to hunt with this bow yet? I'm no master, but I'm sure liking this long bow a lot....

PS: Have you got your woodies flying yet?
(http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u301/kirkll/DSCN1927.jpg)

I shot longbows exclusively for many years, heavy weights,72-80#. Then oneday could not control my shot anymore.Could still pull the weight and hold at anchor but could not control the shot. Went down in weight and still could not control it. Switched to a curve and was right back in the game. I think it is the physical weight of the td curves I shoot making my bow arm steadier. For me, now the curves are definately easier to shoot but the hybrid td longbows are up there as well.

Danny

To answer your question, no they're not harder to master imho. They're a little harder to tune at first, finding the right arrow spine and all, but once that's done it's just a matter of practice. I'm kinda opposite of a lot of folks because I find the recurve harder to master,not that I've mastered either one, but recurves to me are kinda finicky about release and grip.

Anyway, you mentioned that you're already hooked on Hill bows, so that should work out in your favor if you like em you'll keep shootin em and you're bound to improve if you stick to one bow.jmho

Kirk, I have been to busy going to shoots, after this week I'm going to get started on them.

What we believe about a bow is, generally speaking, what the bow will do in our hands. When someone says that they just can't shoot a particular style of bow accurately, it is almost certain that they had that belief before they picked up the bow, based on the statements of others, or of some brief encounter with a bow that created an unsatisfying memory.

Mass weight of a bow can contribute to the feeling of greater stability, but in the long run it is all about what we have become adapted to. Having said that, if you can shoot a bow with a very light mass weight and shoot it well, say a 52" sinew backed juniper selfbow which weights practically nothing, your bodies neurological and muscular adaptation to that bow will serve you well when shooting a heavier mass weight bow. The opposite would not be true.            

No matter what type of bow you shoot, a rock steady bow arm is critical.The arrow shelf must remain still during the shot, and release must be smooth and consistent. Let me say that again; the arrow shelf must remain still and release must be smooth and consistent. It sounds so obvious, but  these two basic skills often become overlooked in the hunt for the perfect bow.

If you can achieve these two basic skills, the type of bow in your hand will become less and less of an issue. Our ability to be accurate with a given bow is always more about us as archers and less about our equipment.  

Go to Dean Torges website and read "The Elements Of Style" for the most concise treatise on shooting a bow; any bow.     http://www.bowyersedge.com/elements.html

Ghost Dog, "if you can shoot a very light mass weight bow, say a little 52" sinew backed juniper selfbow which weights practically nothing, your bodies neurological and muscular adaptation to that bow will serve you well when shooting a heavier mass weight bow. The opposite would not be true."

I agree 100%...I think shooting qualities have nothing to do with what limbs are on it. Light recurves with "longbow" grips are as hard if not harder to shoot then anything. Bows don't decide how they perform or shoot, the builder does....O.L.

How the grip fits your hand is everything, in my opinion.

QuoteOriginally posted by Roger Norris:
How the grip fits your hand is everything, in my opinion.

I agree.  A grip that puts my hand in the same place (consistancy) every time seems to be easier to shoot.  I have to really pay attention to my grip on some of my straighter, low wrist grip longbows.  I also have trouble if the arrow is not close to my hand.  Scores in AL tournaments this year were almost the same between recurves and longbows (not sure that means anything).

Grip shape can be a factor if it becomes a factor. In other words, if you are automatically comfortable and confident with a specific grip shape, that grip shape will become part of how you define a fine shooting bow, but there are plenty of archers who shoot a broomstick grip or straight grip (Hill style) with precision. There are others who can shoot a bow with a small oval grip with no shelf and no nock and floss your teeth for you with an arrow, albeit a really, really skinny arrow.   ;)

from my experience....yea it is!!!

I guess what I was trying to say was that IMO one of these bows is easier to shoot than the others.  Maybe it is not all the grip, but I think it has a lot to do with it.
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y130/weagle1/3bows2.jpg)

Repeatable form, every time, makes any good bow accurate. Some bows are easier to keep "form" with. In my experience nothing makes a bow shoot better than time. It is why even though I buy new bows I always want to grab the old one. It feels natural and I know how the arrow will fly. No, I don't shoot straight handle bows well. But that is because my form suffers. The bow is good, I'm not. Not enough is said about muscle memory. JMHO.

Yeah...much harder.  and the guys that shoot longbows are REAL he-men      :bigsmyl:      Nah.  I don't think harder...just different.  People take a shine to what they use, for a variety of reasons, and just like to shoot "them".  I have a great recurve that I shoot fairly well, but I just love to shoot my longbow.  Don't know why.
ChuckC

I am with danny and others, I shoot a longbow fairly well, but just not as consistant as I would like. My recurve has a very nice grip (widow asbell) that is very consistant in hand placement, this and the mass weight of the bow I believe makes all the diffrence. I shoot the recurve quite a bit better than the longbow of the same weight. believe me I wanna shoot the longbow, but I am huntin and feel I should shoot what I shoot best. Shootin targets it doesnt matter. shoot whatever ya want

Overall i shoot a recurve better at a longer distance. Say 15-18yds in i shoot the longbow almost as good. I could proably switch, but just like the recurve better at this point.

Not for me.

Well, if results matter, the recurve is easier to shoot. Take a look at the difference in recurve and longbow scores at almost any big 3D shoot and you'll see that the recurve scores are generally higher. Also, Olympic archers shoot recurves and I'm sure they have tried enough equipment to have weeded out what works and what doesn't.

But, I like my longbow. Go figure.

Joey

For some reason mass weight seems to really help
my shooting. A chunky, stout, recurve seems to fit
my style.

The first real hunting weight longbow I ever shot
had handshock like you wouldn`t believe. I call it handshock, but it rearranged my entire spine.
No clue of manufacture.

Someone already said it depends on the bow. I think they are right.

QuoteOriginally posted by Stone Knife:
Is it harder to master a long bow than it is a recurve. It's kind of to late to ask this seeing that I'm hooked on Hill's, I just want to know.

I never did master the recurve I had (I was middlin' poor-to-ok with it), so I don't really know if it is easier to master than a longbow... I do know, though, that I like the longbow better than I did the recurve -- and I find longbow and recurve about the same regarding difficulty to learn. Now, if I could just master the longbow...

I found it a task to get good with a longbow after shooting a recurve for decades. But I like the longbow better. I think tuning a longbow to the correct shaft is a little harder.        
                                   
But I don't know ( after having shot a longbow for 6 years ) if my failures are because the bow is harder to shoot - or if its so much easier: my form and such are harder to concentrate on.

Ultimately I don't want a bow that shoots perfect with a gallon of sweat and effort; I want it to put an arrow where I want it- with the least effort.                            
                       
A purely instinctive arrow hitting home from a longbow- feels better in my brain; than a shot from a recurve.                
                   
KirkII - that's a great group- but you should have moved the block target- before you took the picture; and perhaps drawn a small circle around the arrow group  :)  LOL  :)   :)

I found that a "reversed grip" (courtesy of Steve Tourey - Northen Mist Longbows)  helped my shooting a great deal.  But nothing works if I  don't do the whole manual of arms---pick a spot, hook the string, draw, get the shoulder into it, anchor, release, follow-through---some days it just seems to flow, and others I stuggle.

Yes, it is true that the mass weight of a typical recurve riser will help to steady your bow arm. This is especially important if you don't have a chance to practice regularly. What is also true it that a longbow shooter who practices regularly (three or more times a week) will develop just as steady an arm from the physical adaptation necessary to hold a longbow steady at full draw.

The bottom line is this; you need to shoot the bow that makes you feel most confident during a critical moment.

Based on the responses here and my own experience I would have to say that it really depends on the individual. I started out shooting a recurve and stayed away from the longbow for over a decade because everyone told me it would be much harder to shoot well.  It seems I am quite different from others here in that I have never found a recurve that I can shoot as well as a longbow. The only recurves I have ever shot that came close to a longbow were the recurves my neighbor builds with a straight grip. So IMO it really boils down to the individual.

Joey, How many of the longbow "rules" are designed to keep longbows behind "recurves"?? Limits on length, arrows, rests, centershot, ect...  It's that type of bureaucratic politics that has falsely molded the preception that longbows are inferior. Given a level playing field, good ones hold their own better then most would think....O.L.

What about the way long bows are designed guys? they have heavier working limbs, and heavier tips than a recurve.....When we are talking heavier arrows, say 600-700 grains. i would have to say that a long bow could potentially out perform the recurve...with lighter arrows The recurve rules.... henceforth competition & 3D champs most popular choice..

i know the question was "Is it easier to shoot"....but from a bow builders outlook, a hybrid long bow with a shaped grip should be the most desirable choice of bow for casting heavy arrows for hunting.....am i wrong here?

Kirk

Kirk, Yes you are!   :)  ....The bow that shoots the lighter arrow fastest will do so with heavy arrows also. I know that's something folks have heard that such and such a bow "shoots heavy arrows better", fact is they all do.....O.L.

The only real differene I see is the cut of the riser. When I pick up a recurve, I have to subconciously adjust to the left. After shooting one for several weeks then switching back to the longbow, I have to adjust back to the right.
All things considered, I think it best to shoot one or the other, not both. i don't think either is harder to shoot, it's just whatever you're most comfortable with.

Gee Biggie, I've never noticed that. The arrows all shoot where they are pointed...O.L.

Here's my 2 cents.Most important is that the bow is properly tuned with the correct brace height, nock position , arrow, and point weight.I have shot both recurves and longbows,both pretty decent{decent enough to take deer}.I now only shoot hybrid longbows.Why because I've noticed I shoot longbows a little  better. I feel more confident with a longbow.They seem easier for me to shoot.

yeah OL I'm sure they do...but I don't point them so the paradox shows. Shooting instinctively demands a subconcious hand adjustment.

I can pick up and shoot most any recurve, but there have been longbows that I never got comfortable with... it's all in the grip for me....

Now if I never picked up a recurve again I suppose I would eventually get comfortable with the straight handles.....

too add to that....I've found that supposedly identical longbows shoot different as well...

If the older style longbows are so inferior, why has Dave Wallace won the IBO Worlds 2 years in a row with a bow that is very similar to a Hill with no carbon and a dacron string? His grip is just like a Hill.

The last IFAA World Field in AUS, a new world record was set in the Feild Round with a 15 year old Hill style longbow!

I think it is interesting that the elevated rests started showing up in archery about the same time as the curvy grips did.

It is obvious very little is understood about the straight risered/straight gripped longbow. That style of grip, when used properly, really negates the need for mass weight.

The limbs on a deep cored longbow may not be the fastest out there, but it is really harder to pull or torque them off track. In hunting situations where conditions are not perfect, it may get the arrow to it's mark, where a more sensitive bow would not.

There are advantages to both recurves and longbows, but to really understand and grasp the advantages of a real longbow, you need to ask someone who is really into it and don't listen to someone who is trying to re-define what a longbow is.

Look at the compound guys shooting 300 rounds with 60X, their grips are more like a Hill than the recurve grips are. Must be something to that low wrist, straight grip.

I personally shoot better with a recurve than a longbow. I also know folks who shoot longbows better than recurves. But If I had to make a generality about the two, I'd have to agree with what jdupre said about Olympic shooters. If longbows were more forgiving, you'd see FITA shooters using them.