I was just wondering what feet per second people were getting at different draw weight/length and arrow weight they were shooting? Recurves? Longbows?
When I get asked that question, I usually respond, "fast enough to kill".
But none the less, I was wondering. Thanks
My 45-50# recurves @ my 26" draw length shooting 415-515 grain arrows range from 158 FPS to 185 FPS.
My 55# dorado last time I put it through a chrono was clocking 196fps with an arrow weight of 480grn 26%foc at a 27.5" draw. :archer:
Light intensity affects chronograph accuracy. My Toelke Super D longbow shooting an 11 to 1 arrow at my 29" draw in a relatively well-lighted indoor range reads 168 f.p.s. The same chronograph in a small, not so well lighted enclosed paper tuning space shows 161 f.p.s. with the same arrow. I suspect if it were moved outside in bright sunlight the reading would be higher than the first reading.
For information's sake, Blackie Schultz does bow reviews for Traditional Bowhunter Magazine and with fingers and 9 to 1 arrows at 28"s, I don't recall seeing any bow exceeding the low 190's. Some chronographs may simply be more generous than others for there have been a number of posts here from time to time featuring considerably higher speeds with the same bows than Mr. Schultz obtained.
I realize that Jim, and great input on how light affects the chronograph. I guess I just wasn't going to get that specific, but you are right on!
There are many things that can effect chronograph readings. Light is the biggest one. The most consistently true readings are done indoors using in infrared light kit that are designed for the pro chronograph.
other things that can cause variable speed readings, or incorrect readings is a shinny field tip, the angle the arrow passes through the chronograph, inconsistent draw lengths, or longer than normal draw lengths, and the release.
A target archer that holds at full draw is going to get much lower readings than a flight shooter or snap shooter will..... every time. That's a fact.
The most accurate measurements to test the bow are taken using a shooting machine after accurately weighing the arrows and using a precise digital scale to measure draw weight to the same draw used on the machine.
This is where you see a lot of what seem to be really high numbers posted... The bow is marked 50@28" when in fact the bow is really 52.5 pounds @ 28", then it's being over drawn to 28.5" instead of 28". It's quite conman to over draw a bit when testing by hand.
Even using precise digital scales and a shooting machine it can vary from one test to the next, and It can vary a lot from machine testing to shooting with fingers depending on the release.
With a machine you are testing the bow itself for use in comparing efficiency ratings from one bow to the next. shooting by hand tells you what your hunting weight arrows are doing under realistic conditions.....
I've got long bows I've tested at 237 FPS using light weight shafts.... but it doesn't really matter if you can't use those arrows in your bow without blowing the bow up. 9-10 gpp is the normal range.
02 cents worth....
My appologies fellow archers.
I really had no intentions of getting into such a deep subject.
I was just kinda wanting to know speeds on an average basis. Everyone kinda has an "idea" of what their shooting. Just wanted to see and compare is all.
yes, I've seen many guys who step up to a chrono and give a bit more pull than they usually do in a normal draw. Many variables. Too many to compare to each other.
My hunting setups average around 180-185 for me and my tools. I shoot full length shafts, so I'll differ quite a bit I would think.
My go-to huntimg bow is a Trad Tech Titan with Winex limbs pulling 56# @ 32". It sends my 500-grain hunting arrows through a chronograph right at 200 fps.
My Caribow Peregrines (a 1 pce hybrid longbow): at 9GPP 193 FPS, 10 strands string, hand shot @ 28"
My Whippenstick Phoenix (a 3 pce take-down recurve:) at 9 GPP 199 FPS, 12 strands stringh hand shot at 28".
On the Hill web page it says that the bows should shoot at least 115 pfs plus the weight of the bow. i believe that is for 9 grains per pound and 28". Mine did it at 10 grains per pound at 26" and it was a bit slower than my other longbows. I don't think the deer noticed any difference at all.
I have only chrono'd one bow of mine and only did it one time. I shoot 628gr arrow, the bow is 67#@28" and i draw just a tic over 28". The Robertson Mystikal longbow shot 180fps on the money. That was about 10 shots in a row.
God Bless,
Nathan
QuoteOriginally posted by Capnrock:
My appologies fellow archers.
I really had no intentions of getting into such a deep subject.
I was just kinda wanting to know speeds on an average basis. Everyone kinda has an "idea" of what their shooting. Just wanted to see and compare is all.
Just be glad you didn't post this on one of the 'other' (at least one in particular) trad sites :biglaugh:
I generally shoot around 170 fps with my different set ups. I will add weight to an arrow to lower my speed just to keep all my bows shooting the same speed. It makes it easier to switch between bows...
My stats are in my signature below.
Speed doesn't kill, well placed *sharp* arrows do. :D
My Predator shoots a 425 gr. arrow at 198fps with my 32" draw, 52 lbs. Upside to a long draw is speed... downside is noise and the fact that it's hard to find 33" arrows! I like a little clearance between my fingers and the broadhead!
Not sure what my Widows are shooting as I have never chrony'd them, but they appear to be close to the above performance.
No clue...Fast enough to deadify any animal in north america.
Blackwidow CHX 53@28 517gr @ my 26.5 draw 177fps. Widow
Big Jim Thunderchild 63#my30" with a 10,0gpp arrow
= 179 fps average
Bob Lee Signature TD LB 58#@my30" with a 10,3 gpp arrow
= 186 fps average
Whisperstick Vodoostick 60#@my30" with a 10,1gpp arrow
= 194 fps
(all with 12 strand FF/Xcel string, fleece silencers and 4x4" fletch on the arrows)
Don't know what my bow shoots. But, I agree with Rob. It don't matter. I remember reading maybe even on here. (That if you are happy with the way your bow shoots don't shoot it through a chronograph.) I think its human nature to want something that goes fast. So if you don't know how fast it shoots but are happy with the way it shoots. You won't be disappointed.
My rig? 70 lb 70" longbow, slow but deadly, reason being, good arrow flight, sharp broadheads and proper arrow placement.
Rob S. pretty much covered it above.
Capn,
As with many a question you'll ask here, some folks just don't read and want to throw in thier own $0.02 cents worth.
How does fast enough or it doesn't matter answer the man's question??? He asked for bow - arrow length - speed and point weight. Give him what he asked for or start your own post.
Morrison Shawnee -82# - 29.5 inch arrow - 960grns - 160fps.
Hunt it, ill try to clarify my answer, 70" 70LB Hill style longbow, 29" Douglas Fir shaft, 160 gr. Hill head, never put it through a chrono. have no need to, but its not any faster now than it was on the last post, its still slow.
17" Das Dalaa carbon foam Dalaa LB limbs, #48, 539gr beman ICS hunter 400, 167fps.
I shoot the same 31" 680gr arrow/head setup for all three of my bows and my draw is 30". My Wallace Stealth 66# @28 gets an avg of 164fps, Brack Drifter 72#@28 avg 186fps, Stealth 72#@27.5 avg 195fps. I'm shooting 31" 2317's with 5" Bearpaw shield cut feathers, std aluminum inserts and 145gr Bear Razorheads and field points.
CapnRock,
Ask any question about the "speed" of any bow, arrow, or combination of the two, and the hypocrisy of the comments will astound you.
Martin Hunter- 60Lbs - GT3555 - 520grns - 183fps (drop to 320 grins - speed upto 205fps)
Martin Mamba - 55lbs - gt3555 - 420grns - 175fps
i now shoot 10 g,p.p., haven't chromed those as yet. Id expect 170 from the Hunter, 160s from the Mamba.
cheers
550 grain arrow from 3 setups and 28 "" +/- draw
17" Dalaa with Borber Hex limbs 48 @ 28 195fps
64" ACS 2 pc 46 @ 28 180 fps
60 JK Traditions Kanati 50 @ 28 170 FPS
QuoteOriginally posted by hunt it:
Capn,
As with many a question you'll ask here, some folks just don't read and want to throw in thier own $0.02 cents worth.
How does fast enough or it doesn't matter answer the man's question??? He asked for bow - arrow length - speed and point weight. Give him what he asked for or start your own post.
Morrison Shawnee -82# - 29.5 inch arrow - 960grns - 160fps.
au contraire, sir, imho, to the question
"arrow speed - what feet per second people were getting at different draw weight/length and arrow weight they were shooting? Recurves? Longbows?", a reply of
"it doesn't matter" is both a fair and apropos, and says that arrow speed, nor trad bow type, is not of the greater concern for what this forum is about - trad bowhunting. but, to each their own and that's fine, too. :wavey:
QuoteOriginally posted by Rob DiStefano:
QuoteOriginally posted by hunt it:
Capn,
As with many a question you'll ask here, some folks just don't read and want to throw in thier own $0.02 cents worth.
How does fast enough or it doesn't matter answer the man's question??? He asked for bow - arrow length - speed and point weight. Give him what he asked for or start your own post.
Morrison Shawnee -82# - 29.5 inch arrow - 960grns - 160fps.
au contraire, sir, imho, to the question "arrow speed - what feet per second people were getting at different draw weight/length and arrow weight they were shooting? Recurves? Longbows?", a reply of "it doesn't matter" is both a fair and apropos, and says that arrow speed, nor trad bow type, is not of the greater concern for what this forum is about - trad bowhunting. but, to each their own and that's fine, too. :wavey: [/b]
I appologize. I was just wondering as I am new to traditional. I had no idea what speeds were obtainable by using traditional methods. I asked for recurve or longbow only to distinguish the two.
And I agree that arrow speed does not define trad bowhunting as well.
I've had a Pro Chrony and light kit for a couple of years. In the beginning I was using it correctly. Then for some reason I got the idea that the closer to the machine I got the more accurate might results would be. I began getting extremely inconsistent results!
Kirk at Bigfoot helped me. He told me why I need to be at least a bit more than an arrow length away from the machine so the arrow had completely cleared the bow before entering the metering area. That fixed the inconsistencies from shot to shot immediately!
I find the machine a lot of fun. I don't use it often but from time to time I'll do some comparisons between strings (skinny vs. not), silencers (whiskers, wool, none, etc.), and of course different arrow set-ups. Generally I find when a bow feels "fast" or "slow" the chronograph confirms it.
Thanks Kirk!
In my reply I gave the performance figures that were requested. I also pointed out that because of existing variables, a great many of us do not know exactly how many f.p.s. we are getting. Because it's been pointed out so often I did not mention that it does not really matter much. I am glad that Rob did so and he is absolutely correct to point out that what is important is a well-placed sharp broadhead.
Most posts here concerning arrow speed seem intent on that single aspect and it is entirely possible to work up a very fast (for a traditional bow) arrow that is light, does not fly well and will be less than efficient. There is certainly nothing wrong with a fast arrow of sufficient weight tipped with a sharp broadhead flying properly. Exhaustive studies like Ed Ashby's point this out and there is nothing wrong with replies to posts about speed keep this in the equation.
I agree Jim. I agree with Rob as well. I just didn't know the speed that one might get. I realize now after you pointed out the accuracy factor how this changes everything. I assumed(I know) that accuracy and being efficient were not to be looked at as variables.
I have no idea
Cap, if you are considering the differences from longbow to recurve, the real question would be which kind of longbow. Most hybrids can be shot with the same form as a recurve and the speeds will be close. If you are thinking about going to a Hill style longbow, (and rob will disagree a bit on this), they are more commonly shot with more of a bent bow arm, the grip is healed more, the bow is canted more, the draw tends to be a bit shorter, the shot sequence tends to be a bit more fluid, and they are addictive. There are those that shoot them differently than John Schulz, Ron LC, or Howard Hill, but it a lot of people find that they end up following the master with increased success rather than reinventing the longbow wheel. There may some sacrificing of arrow speed, but not enough considering the other advantages in the opinion of almost anyone addicted to longbows.
Cap,
You have no reason to apologize for asking a question.
QuoteOriginally posted by pavan:
Cap, if you are considering the differences from longbow to recurve, the real question would be which kind of longbow. Most hybrids can be shot with the same form as a recurve and the speeds will be close. If you are thinking about going to a Hill style longbow, (and rob will disagree a bit on this), they are more commonly shot with more of a bent bow arm, the grip is healed more, the bow is canted more, the draw tends to be a bit shorter, the shot sequence tends to be a bit more fluid, and they are addictive. There are those that shoot them differently than John Schulz, Ron LC, or Howard Hill, but it a lot of people find that they end up following the master with increased success rather than reinventing the longbow wheel. There may some sacrificing of arrow speed, but not enough considering the other advantages in the opinion of almost anyone addicted to longbows.
You are absolutely right, Lawrence! Good point!
Randy, you asked a perfectly legitimate question. It is my observation from Traditional Bowhunter Magazine reviews and some "walk the talk" tests that have been done on this site that the quickest recurves chronograph 9 to 1 arrows drawn to 28's with fingers about 195 f.p.s. tops. A few deflex/reflex longbows come within 2/3 f.p.s. of that. I have not seen much on Hill Style longbows like I shoot almost exclusively but I suspect the low to mid 180s would be very quick. My Toelke Super Ds shoot arrows ranging from light to heavy (9 to 1 through 12 to 1) closer to the same speed than do the d/r longbow and recurves.
Besides variations between chronographs, carbon laminations and string material and type all affect speed and carbon commonly means louder. It is my personal opinion that many of the fast recurves are just plain loud, the d/r longbows much less so and the Hill style bows are very quiet. I'm giving more than you asked for again but I hope it helps. Best of luck, Jim
I've never tried it, but I would kinda like to see how fast my bow is shooting. I'm not gonna argue, makes me curious myself!
Jason
My results with long bamboo-cored Dryad ACS-RC limbs on a 25" Best Moon riser are:
46 pounds @ 30" Using 8.2 gpp arrows at 30 inch draw, average 204 fps, and with 7.3 gpp arrows average 211 fps, both finger released.
Mark
At one Sioux Falls shoot there was a shooting machine set up. The wheelie boys were convinced it was reading way low. I had a friend fire my Schulz through it with about 8.5gpp cedars. His draw was about a half inch longer than mine. Then the wheelie boys said that for some reason it read my cedars too fast. Then a guy with a recurve from a kit that he got from Utah, tried it and got more speed than my Schulz. Then they were absolutely certain that the chrono was way off. Every time I have seen a chrono set up at a shoot about half of the shooters swear that they are reading wrong. Most of the time bows are close enough that just going with one that you like the most is the best bow.
au contraire, sir, imho to the question "arrow speed - what feet per second people were getting at different draw weight/length and arrow weight they were shooting? Recurves? Longbows?", a reply of "it doesn't matter" is both a fair and apropos, and says that arrow speed, nor trad bow type, is not of the greater concern for what this forum is about - trad bowhunting . ......""
au contraire, sir Rob, imho i think it matters a lot, and i'm not alone...
Arrow speed is what makes an arrow shoot a flat trajectory and be more accurate on slightly misjudged yardage.
A flat shooting bow can shoot through tighter openings and above or below branches much easier too.
It also allows heavier arrows to be used with more power and less draw weight.
I think It is of great concern to many archers here, and around the country to have a flat shooting, hard hitting bow and fits in well with what this forum is all about - trad bowhunting.
"I think It is of great concern to many archers here, and around the country to have a flat shooting, hard hitting bow and fits in well with what this forum is all about - trad bowhunting."
Quoted for truth.
I think most of my hunting bows are right around 180 fps, give or take. That's what my eye is accustomed to seeing.
QuoteOriginally posted by looper:
I think most of my hunting bows are right around 180 fps, give or take. That's what my eye is accustomed to seeing.
You just hit on a very good point here.... What "your eye is accustomed to seeing" is trajectory.
When all things are the same and you are shooting the same yardage from 15-18 yards with an open shooting lane. I'd have to agree that flat trajectory isn't as critical. But the difference from 18-25 yards can make a huge difference in shot placement with heavy arrows that have a lot of arch to them.
Once you get your hands on a flat shooting bow the difference between 15- 25 yards is very small, and it will spoil you rotten.....
btw... 180 is not a bad speed for hunting weight shafts at all IMO. but i prefer 190's myself.
"I was just wondering what feet per second people were getting at different draw weight/length and arrow weight they were shooting? Recurves? Longbows?"
I haven't chrony'd a bow in years, but the last time I did I was averaging 187 fps with my longbow. Drawing 30.5", arrows weighing approximately 9.5 grains per pound, 14 strand Dynaflight '97 string, shooting with a glove. I'd think my release has improved since then, so I'm probably getting a few more fps, but I don't care enough to get my chrony out and check.
I've acquired a few selfbows since then--two given to my by friends, one I made myself with a lot of adult supervision. They are all noticeably slower than my laminated bows, but I've shot some of my best 3-D scores with them.
At one tournament (the TN Classic) I shot in the "Iron Man" (3 classes) plus the "Selfbow Challenge" (shoot the bow you made that weekend). Shot the same course 4 times, my best score (by far) was with the slowest bow (the one I helped make). Go figure.
Speed makes for an interesting discussion, and the promise of "faster" is big selling point with a lot of products, but does it really matter that much?
Well, as we've all heard or said at one time or another...if speed was the #1 priority, why in the world are we shooting traditional bows?
**EDIT** I just recalled a statement attributed to one of the Wensel brothers that sums it up nicely. "That deer don't care how fast your arrow is going when it flies over his back!"
I just read all this because I chrono'd a couple bows for the first time last weekend. I was surprised by the results. Not plesantly. I tested a BigJim TC (55@28") and a Raptor Signature (56@28). I draw to 29.5". I tried 3 arrows, 525 grains, 615 grains, and 650 grains. The TC was consistantly 5 fps slower than the Raptor and the fastest readout was 170 fps with the 525 grain arrow. My go-to hunting arrows (615 grns) came in at 160-165. I have four observations from this experience:
1) these two bows are for all I can tell so close is performance that they might as well be the same bow.
2) when all the old timers tell you not to chrono, that the fps doesn't matter if the bow "seems" fast to you, you should listen. If you don't, you're likely to be disappointed. I didn't expect 200 fps, but a nice 180 would have been cool.
3) If people have a tendancy to overdraw when using a chrono, than my arrows are going even slower.
4) TradGangers are great people, but may have a tendancy to inflate their speed numbers. Seriously, how do others claim to get 20+ fps more out of esentially the same set up? Maybe the chronos aren't calibrated? Who knows, but either way the data is suspect.
In conclusion, if you've never chrono'd your bow and you aren't BUILDING bows, DON'T DO IT! These two bows with these arrows are quick enough to do the job and that's really all that matters.
Your conclusion is right! And I never believe chrono results unless I can see the measurement with my own eyes.
There really is lots to the chrono/speed thing....lots of hassle too.......and I'd venture to say, there aren't many bows out there that aren't fast enough to do what they are meant to do :thumbsup:
I couldnt even tell you within 50fps of what mine will shoot....but i can tell you it blows through deer, and thats all that matters too me!!!
:readit: :goldtooth:
My arrows fly significantly faster when they are not shot through a chronograph.
my tom deputy hybrid shoots 10 gr per lb at 180 i hunt w 9 gr perlb . bow pulls 49 lbs at my drawlength . i think its plenty of wt for anything in no america . its a flat shooting bow and that makes instinctive aiming easier for me.
rt on kirk could not be said any better .
I have a sage 50#@28 with a draw of 31.5 and a axis arrow weighing 595 it shots 177. It is about 62# at 31.5
I tune all of my setups to shoot 175-180 fps, recurve or longbow, that's what my eye seems to like, or I am used to it. I can grab any bow off my rack and know the trajectory.
The advantage of a more efficient bow is I can shoot a lower poundage or higher gpp and get the same speed. But speed is nothing without and smooth and stable shooting bow.
"how do others claim to get 20+ fps more out of esentially the same set up?"
I think the same model bows that appear identical in poundage, length and brace from the same bowyer will preform differently, some are faster than others. Natural materials have variances. Also quality of release, tune and consistent draw length play a part, as well as variances from chrono to chrono. Ego probably plays a part also.
Sorry for the rant, to much caffeine, the tea was very strong. :D
I have chrono'ed one. A 48 pound maddog Prarie Predator longbow. 167 fps with a 420 grain arrow at 26 inches, dacron string.
I have plugged a couple new ones lately into a calculator. Nothing specific or written in stone. The numbers are higher than I expect to be true because they are spouting out well over 200 fps.
I can tell you hands down the fastest bow I own is a 60 pound KH. They are great bows, but the Rick Barbee string brought it alive. I would love to have a chrono to see what this one is doing. It's all about the string fellas. God Bless
I went and shot at an indoor range the other day. They had a chrono set up. My bow shot in the low 150's. it was kind of a let down as I thought it shot faster than that. My bow is a HHA longbow, about 45 lbs at my draw length shooting 575grarrows which comes out to 12.8gr/lb. HHA says 115fps + the draw weight of the bow (9gr/lb) so that would be 160fps. So I guess since my arrows are quite a bit heavier my bow is performing better than expected. Who knows though. I have never put my bow on a scale, the chrono looked pretty beat up, etc. I have my own Chrony and need to set it up and see how it compares.
lol i like these post cause all the fellow wanted to know was what kind of speed folks were getting out of their bows and all of the sudden speed doesn't matter. well i have 2 john jordan stalkers one at 51# and one at 52# i don't know how fast they are but both shoot the same for me. Now the statement that speed doesn't matter is an opinion,you see we have laminated limbs,and foam core limbs,laminated foam core carbon limbs, FAST flight strings,skinny Fast flight strings. what do you think all the above was for? SPEED lol
My Sarrels Blueridge takedown longbow chronos at 175fps. It is 50# @ my 29.5" DL and I shoot 530gr arrows.
Bisch
My Tomahawk Diamond series SS 55# @ 28" (I draw 27.5) came in at around 170 fps. My Legacy series tomahawk 60# at 27.5" managed to do around 173 fps with a 652 grain arrow. If you look at the last traditional bowhunter magazine you can see the speed results for the T-hawk legacy series by Blacky Schwartz on the opening spread. If memory served it shot 188 fps with a 9gpp arrow not the fastest bow ever but an extremely good speed in my opinion for a bow made with wooden cores. 3rivers now offers foam and carbon limbs for it and I would be interested to see what they would do. I bet they would be high 190's to 200 fps.
I have never understood why you cannot have a rational discussion about "speed" and traditional bows. The rules of this forum state, "debate is healthy, as one sword sharpens another".
However, in my opinion, you ask a question about "what is the fastest recurve?" or "how fast a design is XYZ bow compared to ZYX bow?" you will be "slammed" by all kinds of non-witty remarks, especially the famous" fast enough to kill" quote.
It seems, IMHO, that other people take that as a personal insult on traditional archery, yet all are pleased when a bowyer creates a more efficient bow that delivers the same speed at a lower poundage.It appears that most people on this forum shoot bows in the 45 to 53 pound range and I would think you would want the most bang for your buck.
There is nothing wrong about wanting a fast performing bow or discussing the various bowyers who make them.
If I am thinking of investing between 800 to 1300 dollars for a bow, which is the average price these days, I would certainly want the lastest in design and speed. Why have a custom bow built to subpar standards? The difference between 170 FPS and 190 FPS is substantial. I am lucky enough to own over a dozen custom recurves. There is a tremendous difference in shooting my 1997 Dale Dye and my 2012 Sasquatch. Both will kill, but, the Sasquatch delivers the arrow over 23 FPS faster, which make for, in my opinion, easier shooting. Shoot what YOU like, but, there is nothing wrong about talking about speed. IMHO.
Duncan X2
God bless, Steve
X3 :)
x4 :)
I can see several reasons why discussing speed when it comes to so called traditional bows might be a turn off for some. But it's not for me and was a big factor back when I shot recurves before compounds were invented and still is now. (Just in case compounds might be one of the reasons).
Back then I just wanted a fast bow, now I just want the most fps I can get with the highest poundage I'm capable of handling at my age...which isn't all that much and why I shoot a Big Foot Recurve with triple carbon foam core limbs.
I've never timed it, but it has a smooth draw and shoots very quick and hits real hard.
QuoteOriginally posted by AdAstraAiroh:
My results with long bamboo-cored Dryad ACS-RC limbs on a 25" Best Moon riser are:
46 pounds @ 30" Using 8.2 gpp arrows at 30 inch draw, average 204 fps, and with 7.3 gpp arrows average 211 fps, both finger released.
Mark
acs- so darned quick!
Duncan, I thought this was a rational discussion... :dunno:
W
Sorry about that,hit the button with my off hand.
For the most part, you are correct, this is a rational discussion. However,go back to the first couple of pages and you will find the OP apologizing for asking the question. I would start more discussions myself on various recurves and R/D bows but, I would have to endure the comments on "sharp broadheads kill, not speed" type remarks.
As I stated above, it appears to be delicate subject with a lot of archers and not worth the trouble.Top of the line bows are expensive, so you should be able to ask about their abilities. No big deal, we all have our opinions. Good Shooting to everyone.
The only problem with fps numbers is, I have a hard time knowing if they are accurate. We tested three of my bows years back, two of them were shooting 9 grains per pound and one was shooting over ten grains per pound,(my Black Widow target bow). the two heavy Schulz longbows were both over 200 fps and so was the BW target bow. At another shoot the same archer that shot my bows years before shot another of my Schulz longbows, about 66 pounds at his draw with 555 grain arrow and once again broke 200 fps. I am told over and over again that is not possible, so that must mean that no one around here knows what they are doing with chronographs. Regardless, if they are reading at least consistently high or consistently low, I think they can be useful tools for equipment selections.
Home made 55# recurve shooting 702 grain arrows at my 28" draw shoots 161-165 averaging 163 over ten shots with my fingers and 10 strand D10 string with yarn silencers. Can't vouch for the accuracy of the chrono. And I personally believe speed is very relevant in bow selection. Just behind accuracy and quietness.
Bonner
I think speed is important and chronos are a good tool, but we always blame or praise the bow. There are many more and perhaps better areas than the bow. A lousy release and shot cycle is good for 20 fps and the cost is only time and focus.
My thoughts:
1. If somebody created a traditional bow that shot arrows at compound bow velocities, I am certain that many of us would own one and that eventually such technology would become the norm.
2. 2 to 3 ft/s may not matter, but a 20 ft/s difference might matter. In my own simple terms from high school physics:
Arrow A: 150 ft/s
Arrow B: 180 ft/s
Both arrows are fired level at a target 30 yards away.
ARROW A
Time to Target:
t=d/r
t=60ft/150fps
t=0.40s
Drop Distance:
d=vi(t)+0.5(g)(t^2)
d=(32 ft/s^2)(0.40^2)s
d=2.56ft
ARROW B
Time to Target:
t=d/r
t=60ft/180fps
t=0.33s
Drop Distance:
d=vi(t)+0.5(g)(t^2)
d=(32 ft/s^2)(0.33^2)s
d=1.74ft
ARROW A vs B:
2.56ft-1.74ft=0.82ft, which is 9.8in
Arrow A (the faster arrow) impacts the target about 9.8 inches higher than arrow B. For the archer who has to shoot a projectile with a parabolic trajectory, velocity could matter. Of course there are many other factors that make a bow a "good shooter," and velocity is only one of them.
We shoot our bows for fun and not for science, but I find this discussion interesting.
I did a little searching on the web for chrono accuracy and a few people have tested them by lining two chronos up back to back and shooting a projectile through both at the same time. Here are the highlights:
-the 2 chronos typically showed 6-12 fps difference
-some tests showed 20-30 fps difference
-the same set of chronos would show more/less difference when tested on different days.
Those differences in measured fps are pretty significant for trad bows and could account for some of the wildly different numbers reported by different people. For me the conclusion is that reported absolute fps numbers should be taken with a grain of salt, but relative fps numbers from one person measured on the same day can be useful in choosing bewteen an arrow/string/bow etc.
On the day that Dick shot my 66 pounder through the machine, the wheel guys were swearing that it was reading consistently about 40 fps show. My bow was shot then a fellow with a screaming fast recurve from a Bingham kit shot, then the talk turned to "why does it read the old bows fast and the new bows slow." One of guys running the chrono said that it was simple, "The arrows out of cam compounds do not get up to full speed until they are 15 or 20 yards out, depending on the bow." Depending on the bow?
We did do one test that seemed interesting that day. We found that some bows shoot with much different variances in speed with different draw lengths, while other bows, Hill longbows, shot with much less variance in speed with longer and shorter draws. The thing got critical when the findings were that some of the bows with the higher variance were hardly any faster than the Hills when they were drawn short, but faster when each was drawn long. That is something that I always wish was included in bow tests, I tend not to believe the generalizations about longer bows always shooting faster at all draws. That may be true in some cases, but I have not seen that with the Bear takedown tests we did, nor does it seem to apply to all longbows. That is one area where a chronograph can do some real work.
QuoteOriginally posted by pavan:
"The arrows out of cam compounds do not get up to full speed until they are 15 or 20 yards out, depending on the bow."
:laughing: that's a dandy.
Comparing your chrono numbers to someone else's over the internet is like measuring, and-well you make up the rest. :D
I like my old bows. I enjoy replacing the tip overlays with phenolic so they will take fast flite strings. I've gotten 185fps from a Wing Gull that was 46@30 with a 475 gr gold tip 55/75..It's actually faster that my Trad-Tech Pinnacle II with the same arrow and with the same draw weight...that averaged 181fps
Omega Longbow 60#@28", 8.33 gpp arrow,GT 5575, 195 fps.
Throws 'em hard and fast!
OK, I would like to ask a stupid question: Are all chronos (other than price) operate by the same principle? Being a former sniper, I can tell you that in firearms, they were have very accurate. I assume the wild variant in traditional bows is the release? I have chronoed all of my bows, but, that was renting space at a wheelie shop. For the professional bowyers on this forum, do you use a model that is made just for archery or they all the same? Thanks.
I would be interested in the difference between the shoot through chrono and the one that is the tip of the arrow...i think bob lee bows use that one..i went on line and the screw on tip chrono is super expensive.
TTT
A chrongraph is a dangerous thing. I have one for rifle load development and have played with it for archery. I have found it only useful in comparing arrow speeds of different weights form the same bow on that day. i.e. 500 grain arrow vs 600 grain arrow.
In the past I played around with different bows and arrows and found that I got hunting bows to shoot from 160 fps for a longbow to 185 for a Fedora recurve. Honestly, I would not buy a bow based soley on arrow speed and encourage folks not to even worry about it. At a local archery shop the manager told me that the chronograph sells more new compound bows than anything else.
I equate it to asking about your wife's ex-boyfriends-- you might want to know at the time you asked but now, you wished you had not. :)