Hi All, I am new to bowhunting and I need some tips. Here is my dilemna- I am shooting a Samick Sage 55#@ 30in. recurve. I have outfitted the bow with a fast flight string, beaver balls and felt pads on the string grooves as well as tuning the brace height for optimal smoothness and quiet performance. I am pretty confident my bow is as quiet as it can be but recently I have missed shots at does jumping the string at only 20 yards. I have been aimimng for the center of the lung heart region about 4" above the shoulder and am beginning to think i should aim lower but am concerned that the deer wont move and I will have a poor shot. I assume the speed of sound is faster than my arrow (420 grains total) and I am just wondering what other guys have learned in respect to hunting these incredibly agile fast creatures. Thanks in advance for any tips!!
thats very light for your poundage. if you go to a 550-600 grain arrow that will quieten your bow considerably. I usually shoot for the knuckle just behind the elbow knowing our deer will always drop at the shot. good luck.
Agree with BOHO...one of the easiest things you can do to quieten your bow down is shoot a heavier arrow.
Good luck!
You could try a heavier arrow as mentioned. That will most likely change your sight picture. Not a real good thing to do during hunting season...
Just aim lower. I've hunted some places where the deer were so spooky I had to aim at their knee to connect. Yes, the knee. Most places though just aim about an inch or two above the bottom of their chest.
x3 on the heavier arrows quieting your bow. Also I usually aim at the bottom 1/3 of the kill zone. Its a good idea to shoot when the deer are relaxed and not alert as well.
I have hunted with stickbows since the mid 70s and used recurves up until 1992 - when I switched to Flatbows and Longbows the first thing I noticed was that deer did not move until they were hit - and I could stop compensating for the "duck" aim I quit aaimiing low. I do not shoot at deer that have picked me out - only unalarmed - slow walk ok - head scuffling for acorns great. Not sure how many deer but I can't remember harvesting less than 4 in a season and the high number was 14 for one season and not a single deer ducked. For recurves deer did not duck breezy afternoons and during the rut. I see the heavy arrow comments and I agree 100% with that. I do think most hunters can get recurves close to longbow quiet - but for me - I use longbows only for whitetails - keeping recurves for moose, caribou, bears, hogs, muleys, elk since none of them react half as much as whitetails.
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Oldskool2
Well, the speed of sound is dependant on the temperature, but still you need to be in the 700 miles per hour area and then some to beat it, but you still have to deal with the pressure wave and sonic boom from eclipsing it. That is likely louder than your bow ... plus no way any arrow is that fast!
Ok, seriously, that is a light arrow combo and may be a little hard on your bow as you are around 7.6 grains per pound of draw. Upping your arrow weight is easier on your bow, and will quiet it as well. Your point of aim with even 100 more grains would be negligible.
Shooting at alert deer makes it hard to connect. Most guys aim low to get a heart or lung shot if they hit and a clean miss if they do not. If you make no changes in your set up, I would recommend to aim lower. If you miss ... heck you missed before, so no harm. If they are jumping the string, they will move into your arrow.
Good luck and post a pic when you get one!
Bob.
I always aim at the center of the lower third of the chest. If the deer does not move it is a heart shot. If the deer moves, it is a center lung shot.
Bisch
Heavier arrow would definitely help but dont think would do it during the season. I personally never had much luck with beaver fur keeping noise down as much as some other silencer materials. They do look better than some of the others though.
Couple of things:
1) It is pretty hard to shoot at alert deer. I usually wait until they are moving and relaxed.
2) I am not sure where you are aiming, but the lower one third (just 1" or so above the elbow), directly up the leg bone on a true broadside deer, is the spot. (though I really like them walking; as the leg comes back I draw on the elbow and release as the leg is furthest back)
3) You may be just shooting high- as that is really easy to do if you start "zone shooting", that is shooting at the entire shoulder instead of a small spot.
4) Finally, in all honesty, I can not hardly recall a deer that jumped the string on me. Now it may happen so fast I have not recognized it, but it has not been an issue. And I am sure my bow is not all that quiet.
Hang in there. It will come together.
Dan
I would go ahead and change to the heavier arrow. What you are doing now is not working so why not change it? I intentionally hunt with heavier arrows. My "range" arrows are 580 grains and my hunting arrows are 650. At hunting ranges the difference is only an inch or so.
As said above, if the deer is looking at you and you turn an arrow loose, you are rolling the dice.
great tips guys!! I will have to look into a heavier arrow. The arrows I am shooting are 30.5" long and have a weight of 9.3 per inch, I have a 125 grain broadhead with 50grain gold tip insert weights on them so that would be actually about 460 right? i dont know how much the screw in inserts or nocks weigh but I guess about 15 grains combined so maybe I am closer to 475. what is the formula for arrow weight per inch that I should be looking for? as for the deer being alert both of these deer were completely relaxed and had no idea I was there. Im sure there were nerves involved as well, I am a newby and its quite possible I just shot high but I did realize both deer bolted as soon as I loosed the arrow. Thanks again for all the comments!!!
First off, your arrow is on the light side. Screw a 200 grain head on it and be done. More than likely with it being carbon it won't affect the tuning. Carbons tend to shoot any weigh you put on them once they have proper trim. Being you are probaly shooting a 31 or 32 inch shaft for your 30 inch draw, you will be fine. Try it and see.
Second thing, type Rick Barbee into your search engine and buy one of his ultra cam skinny strings. It will absolutely quieten your bow to a hush. An sbd is a good one too but you gotta wait a while on them they are so busy. I like the ultra cam beter than the D10 SBD uses because it is quieter and doesn't seem to strech as much in my expierence, plus it has all the performance the D10 has. Both are great strings, and both will do far more than shooting a telephone pole to quieten your bow if it is tuned correctly.
I will say this, we all have an opinion, and they are all relative. But, shooting an excessively heavy arrow is not the answer to ever question about bow noise. The most imporant thing you can do to quieten any trad bow, ecspecially a recurve, besides proper brace height, is the string material, not arrow weight.
I have had a bunch of them and with the D97 strings and fat strings of other ff material, and the beloved B50, that were loud even when tuned with any arrow because of the string material. Put a quality skinny string on it and take appropiate measures for proper tuning and they are different bows. Quiet to the bone, regardless of 8 or 11 gpp. You can't tell the difference.
So just saying arrow weight is the answer when it is really the least most important factor is wrong. Change your sring to one of the above or some other quality skinny string, shott a moderate arrow and be done with it. God Bless
QuoteOriginally posted by Eric S:
Heavier arrow would definitely help but dont think would do it during the season. I personally never had much luck with beaver fur keeping noise down as much as some other silencer materials. They do look better than some of the others though.
what materials do you like for silencers?
QuoteOriginally posted by AWPForester:
First off, your arrow is on the light side. Screw a 200 grain head on it and be done. More than likely with it being carbon it won't affect the tuning. Carbons tend to shoot any weigh you put on them once they have proper trim. Being you are probaly shooting a 31 or 32 inch shaft for your 30 inch draw, you will be fine. Try it and see.
Second thing, type Rick Barbee into your search engine and buy one of his ultra cam skinny strings. It will absolutely quieten your bow to a hush. An sbd is a good one too but you gotta wait a while on them they are so busy. I like the ultra cam beter than the D10 SBD uses because it is quieter and doesn't seem to strech as much in my expierence, plus it has all the performance the D10 has. Both are great strings, and both will do far more than shooting a telephone pole to quieten your bow if it is tuned correctly.
I will say this, we all have an opinion, and they are all relative. But, shooting an excessively heavy arrow is not the answer to ever question about bow noise. The most imporant thing you can do to quieten any trad bow, ecspecially a recurve, besides proper brace height, is the string material, not arrow weight.
I have had a bunch of them and with the D97 strings and fat strings of other ff material, and the beloved B50, that were loud even when tuned with any arrow because of the string material. Put a quality skinny string on it and take appropiate measures for proper tuning and they are different bows. Quiet to the bone, regardless of 8 or 11 gpp. You can't tell the difference.
So just saying arrow weight is the answer when it is really the least most important factor is wrong. Change your sring to one of the above or some other quality skinny string, shott a moderate arrow and be done with it. God Bless
Good stuff, I will definitely have to try the ultra cam string!! Thanks!!
Sounds like you may be Overdrawing. That combined with faulty release make even a Hill bow loud.
Arrows smacking off the side of the riser upon the loose is not going to be favorably tuned out by messing with arrow weight. Once I figured that out 8-9gpp all the way baby.
Quote from Cory:
I do not shoot at deer that have picked me out - only unalarmed - slow walk ok
This is the single most important thing that I have learned over the years.
Keep the deer as calm as possible and do not get deteched.
I too have never had much trouble with deer jumping the string. It could be due to the fact that I hunt the large bodied deer of the midwest. I have seen deer in Texas that look like the miniature version of the real thing! I bet those deer really jump the string!
I have never had a deer jump the string. There is no movement until the arrow has penetrated the body and by then it's all over. My combination of a straight limbed longbow( Northern Mist Whisper)and 620gn. Douglas fir shafts is so silent, it's erie.
The advise of putting 200 grains on the front and being done with it may not allow you to be done with it. It may screw up your arrow flight to the point that shooting them are worthless. You will have to find that out for yourself, first. I speak this from experience. It depends on the arrow spine and how it reacts to different broadhead weights.
Truthfully, if a 45 pound bow shoots completely through a whitetail with a 450 grain arrow then your bow will do the same easily. If a heavier arrow quiets your bow but doesn't shoot worth a darn then better to have a bit more twang.
Start tuning the heavier arrows in the spring if the ones you are using fly true, IMHO.
If you study hunting footage then nearly all deer start the flinch by the time the arrow reaches them but few move far enough for it not to be a fatal hit if accurately placed to begin with.
Shoot the rig you have and are already accustomed to, 8-9 gpp is plenty, just don't pull back on an alert deer because as a rule you're wasting energy. Heavy, light, quiet, or loud won't make a bit of difference, they'll jump the string on a wheel bow past 10-15 yards if they're wound up and ready to spring and we ain't pushing near those kinds of speeds....
Get closer!
Ok, lots of good advice here. But speaking from recent experience, changing your string, silencer material, or weight of your arrows, will change the tune of your set up. So be advised! You may get lucky after all the changes and maintain your sight picture and accuracy, but that is something you will have to consider. Some bows may be more forgiving than others, but every bow I have tuned has changed which arrow set up it likes after changes. So do whatever you think may be necessary, but don't be surprised if your broadheads don't fly the same. My advice would be that if you have to make changes, start from the beginning. If you change your string, it'll need time to stretch and settle. Then new silencers will need the same. Once that part is good, start with the bare shaft tuning of heavier arrows. When your bare shafts hit with your fletched shafts, you should be ready for broadheads. At the very least you will need a week from the time you get your new string on, probably two. Then you will need to practice to know if your sight picture has changed, and by how much. Good luck, and let us know what happens. Perhaps aiming a little lower would be best for the remainder of this season.
Just one more piece(s) of advice. A skinny striing can change yur tuning, noot likely if you are already shooting a ff string, unless you are close to being out of tune already, which unlless yoour release is perfec every single time, you would know shoting a 7.6 gpp arrow. If it does, you already got the orginal, so you can always change back.
Swiching to the heavier head may change your spine, but I doubt it. Carbons juust shoot anything most of the time if yu have the proper trim for your setup. Being you are long drawed, your shaft is likely spined in the 55-75 range to get it long enough to be able to pull. So once again, a heavier head can't hurt because it will be much more likely not to change your spine versus doing so because they have that designation for a reason. They are very tolerant and accurate to designation when left 28 inches or longer.
But once again, if not, you can always go back to the heads you have use the new ones next year because one thing for certain, if you change nothiing but one thing, it beter be to get a heavier arrow. And head weight, weight tubes, or inserts are required in almost all carbon setups to reach desired weights, No loss possible.
String stretch could be an issue if you buy the wrong string. It won't be if you buy the one preconditioned and made of thhe best material no to. 5 minutes of form work should settle a properly made and conditioned string. At least in my expierence. No loss. It is the best investment anyone could make to quieten a bow. No stretch equals no noise or vibration. Win, Win for you in all categories.
The silencers, I am not sure how to respond to that because I have never gave it a thought and thank the Lord I have never had to. As far as he 2 week claim, it could be correct. Depends on your striing material now. But goodness, if it don't work just put the old stuff back in action. No time lost.
Sight pic? I shoot 7-11 gpp arrows at hunting ranges routinely. The only impact difference between the two is 0-10 yards and beyond 40. The first is going to be an inch or so with the heavier arrow hitting higher at karate range, the second might show a lite more drop off with the heavier arrow but, lets face it, a few minutes of shooting will reprogram everything need be to offset either of these extremes.
But more than anything, you got the old stuff, just chage it back until after season if it doesn't work. What is too lose? God Bless
Get a way heavier arrow and/or a much quieter bow and don't shoot at alarmed deer. Pass on those shots. Try a selfbow if you want an uber quiet bow.
Try to heart shoot them all. If they duck you get a double lunger.RC
I can't remember the last deer I shot that was standing. A walking deer doesn't jump the string.
I'm a new guy, but I got my 50# Sage really quiet with wool yarn puff balls. 16 wraps around 3 fingers, slide it through your string, cut the loops open. I have 2 puffs on my limb pockets and 2 more 12 inches from end. 4 puff balls total on the string. I shoot light arrows too and my bow just whispers now. You can do more wraps or more fingers if you want bigger puffs I guess. Good luck.
In 17 years of hunting with a recurve I've possibly had one doe duck my arrow. I also might have shot over her too. Who really knows. My arrows have never been lighter then 560 grains. I've always thought my bow was super quiet. Much quieter then the compounds are that's for sure. I think more people miss their spot or are shooting at alert animals.
Things change though when you get down to the southern part of the US and hunt Couse Deer. Them suckers will jump your string almost every time. Best of luck In figuring out your Issue or problem.