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Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: ozy clint on October 01, 2012, 04:36:00 AM
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looking for some heavy 2 bladers for a setup i'm cooking up. something like the tuffhead. does VPA make a glue on?
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tuffheads are IMO in a class by themselves--being as well made as any head and better than most--precise--heavy--tough--factory sharp--
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You can always add weight with a Woody Weight
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I love my 190 tuskers.
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Ace 200 grain
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Originally posted by okla bearclaw:
You can always add weight with a Woody Weight
Anotehr vote for Woody Weights. I am using a 100 grain WW with a Simmons Tree Shark for 265 grains up front. Great arrow flight and devastating penetration! Good luck!
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Tuffhead at 225 or 300 grains would be hard to beat, Grizzly Kodiak at 200 gr is very good as well. The Woody weights can add weight to any head pretty fast.
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I would vote Tuffhead or Grizzly Kodiak for a glue on and VPA for screw in.
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If you are using wood arrows you choices are limited. However, with carbon and aluminum shafts and the variety of screw in inserts and bushings available I believe you can achieve any weight you want.
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I'm a dyed in the wool grizzly man - price and quality meet at the perfect spot with them forme ozy but I'm road testing tuff heads for the maker and I am very very impressed so far. A hog a coyote and a big raccoon have all felt the sting of them. None liked it at all. Big wounds lots of bleeding. They're easy to sharpen and nice and heavy for wood arrows
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I agree, the tuff heads are just like the name, TUFF.
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Ace Super Express, 175 and 200gr, triple laminated and tough as nails... and they won't break the bank when you buy them.
(http://acearcherytackle.com/attachments/Image/SE_175-200.jpg)
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After seeing what Tuffheads do on big Asiatic buffalo and on Brahma mix scrub bulls in Australia, I can certainly highly recommend them. I have no doubt they will do anything you ask of them, Clint. The only weakness I experienced was the bending of the relatively soft steel adapters I used with the broadheads, but those were not made by Tuffhead, and they would not be necessary with wood arrows. The 300 version is stronger and heavier, but the 225 version is probably enough.
Allan
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i'm planning on making up a super bombproof arrow for buffalo. i plan to use a glue in/glue on adapter then the broadhead. the adapter will be something i'll have to get machined. i want to eliminate the screw in adapter for this application for reason mentioned by amar911. i want to make it about 4" long then trim the adapter to suit the total mass i want and for tuning, as well as trimming the shaft. the tuff head seems to be the pick at the moment since it's the heaviest glue on available. VPA needs to make some glue ons. would anyone be interested in some glue ons from VPA?
this leads me to my other question. skinny axis shafts or standard 5/16" shafts?
i've had an arrow break behind the insert on a bulls ribs on a perfect broadside shot. something i want not to happen again. my next buff arrows will be as bombproof as possible.
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ozzy
vintage makes carbon inserts upto 200g- and they are not 4" long---it occured to me if you are machining your own-think about an outsert style w/broadhead adapter --footing and adapting in one shot --good luck
----------------------mike
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I like the Simmons Interceptors in 190grn or 205grn.
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Well, if I lived in Australia and wanted a real heavy 2 blade set up I think I would consider a 190 gr. Ribteks with 100 gr. steel inserts.
I sure wish someone in the States still carried Ribteks!
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Clint,
I would also encourage you to look at the combination insert/adapter sold by Vintage Archery. With the 200 grain insert/adapter and the Tuffhead 300, you would have 500 grains up front, which is what I have on my AD Hammerheads I described earlier. If you have some concerns about penetration, maybe you should think about skinny shafts with aluminum arrow shaft footing epoxied in place. Ask Andy Ivy about his arrows that he builds that way. I definitely would not be concerned about the screw-in VPA 2 blade heads having any problems with the screw shaft segments. I like being able to change heads simply by screwing them out and in.
Allan
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Aloha Clint,
I like the TuffHeads too and for bombproof--the 300gr should fit the bill sweetly. It features a heavier gauge steel (.080 vs. .060 in the 225 model) and subsequent wider single grind. Joe has put his very soul into this head and it is one serious piece of equipment.
I agree with Allan and although I did not get a chance to specifically test this head (it came out after I finished testing and too late for my visit with Mick and Andy), I absolutely tortured the 225s and 4 other brands of highly touted heavy BHs, and no others made it through. It certainly lived up to its moniker...
I have no doubt it will not only perform but well. However, Clint you have other weak points to assess as Allan has mentioned earlier (and maybe even some yet undiscovered to be revealed later through testing) including the adapter/insert area as well as the shaft. It need not be mentioned but I will say it anyway--ANY failure in the front /business end of the arrow will result in decreased penetration. Not acceptable. I applaud you for realizing this and seeking to make the head/shaft combination "bombproof".
Although no engineer, I would advise against making the adapter too long. Under the simple principles of leverage, any shearing force would transfer down the added length of the adapter to translate into easier bending and increasing the potential for weakness.
If you are going to go to the lengths of machining something, I would consider something along Mike's suggestion of a custom adapter with a footing/outsert/insert one piece combo thingy--possibly incorporating the priciples of the Morse taper, not only for alignment purposes (think of how a pen naturally centers itself into its cap) but also for uncanny strength. The hard corners are eliminated thus distributing the stresses more evenly along the length of the adapter instead of into one spot as regular adapters do. I'd make up a drawing 1st, and go from there. Choose a material and design wisely, and don't worry about it being weight adjustable for tuning--there are ways around that if kept reasonable. I have crude doodlings around here somewhere of an "adaptasert" that I thought of while bored at a conference...LMK if you are interested in going that way.
Like Allan and Pat, I too have bent the steel adapters rather easily during testing. I have not tested the brass insert/adapter combo yet for impact strength of a violent nature, but would like to see the results if someone does/has. Maybe DC and I can do it when he comes to visit--up for some destruction DC? I'll bet he's in! OK, I'll hold the camera while I get behind your rental.....
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Another thing I like about the TuffHead design is the wide aft end of the ferrule, it allows the adapter and therefore the shaft to be countersunk into that back end, again strengthening a potential weakspot.
If I had the means to do it Clint, I would pick a microdiameter shaft that could handle the front weight, like an FMJ DG shaft 250, then assemble target weight point (start the easy way 1st--all tip components available from Vintage). Brass insert/adapter combo, then glue on 300gr field points. Bareshaft tune, then assemble a BH arrow the same way and TORTURE it til it FAILS. If you need more weight up front, you can add various brass/aluminum inserts that are available for the skinny shafts from 16-100grs. This gives added benefit of stiffening the shaft from my experience, something you may not be able to do by cutting depending on length.
When you assemble the BH, use a good glue and technique--I used JB weld--and meticulously scratched/gouged the inside of the ferrule, then microetched/acid etched it to increase the surface area and clean, then applied a special low viscosity 2 part adhesive to increase the bond between the JB weld and head. I had some heads come off the insert before after hard impact testing, revealing the weak link--no way was I going to let it happen again.
After redoing the heads with this method and footing the FMJ shafts, I had no more failures in impact testing (74lb bow) except for a few bent BH tips.
Sounds like a fun project Clint, wish I was there to help you break stuff! If you need assistance, pm me. I'd send you my 300gr TuffHeads, but they already have 100gr steel adpters in, and they aren't coming out!
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Originally posted by xma:
Although no engineer, I would advise against making the adapter too long. Under the simple principles of leverage, any shearing force would transfer down the added length of the adapter to translate into easier bending and increasing the potential for weakness.
i'm not sure i agree.
consider this- the broadhead is the part encountering the resistance and it is being pushed along by the center of gravity of the arrow (the balance point) which is behind the broadhead. the closer you can get the back of the insert to the balance point the better. this gives the center of gravity less leverage against the back of the insert.
the closer the load (broadhead) is to the fulcrum (back of insert) the easier it is for the force (arrow center of gravity) to act upon the load. and if the fulcrum is weaker than the load it gives way, which is what i want to avoid. i suspect that breakage at the back of the insert would be significantly reduced if the back of the insert was behind the balance point. though i'm not sure that is practical.
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Ah, what you're saying is also what I understand-- what I thought originally and therefore misunderstood--was your idea of making the adapter 4" long total length with the main mass FORWARD of the shaft--NOT a good idea...we do agree Clint.
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Originally posted by xma:
Ah, what you're saying is also what I understand-- what I thought originally and therefore misunderstood--was your idea of making the adapter 4" long total length with the main mass FORWARD of the shaft--NOT a good idea...we do agree Clint.
not sure what you mean by that? the idea is to get as much weight up front as possible. i'm talking about a 900-950gr arrow. to get a shaft that heavy without weight tubes means the adapter insert will need to be longer than is curently available. though the vintage archery 200gr adapters might be enough.