Well I just got a pair of Yew staves today and I called the guy I got them from just to let him know they had arrived. Now he told me to let them season a bit more to acclimate to the weather here in Iowa versus the West Coast area. Ive never heard of that but figured maybe you guys had and could confirm this.
Anyhow on to some stats and pictures. The first and smaller of the two staves is 74" long, 2" wide at both ends, 2 1/2" deep at both ends. It has a bow in it (no pun) the ends bend toward what will be the belly of the bow, I think they call that follow in a finished bow. Its 3/4" bend on one end and 1 1/2" bend on the other and that kinda worries me. Also it has a pretty good knot on the side of the stave about 33 1/2" from one end. Here are some pics.
(http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa29/rascal_382/YewStaves0112.jpg)
(http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa29/rascal_382/YewStaves0022.jpg)
(http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa29/rascal_382/YewStaves0032.jpg)
(http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa29/rascal_382/YewStaves0042.jpg)
The second and larger of the two staves is 74" long2 1/2" wide and 2" deep at one end, 3 1/2" wide and 2 1/2" deep at the other end. it appears very straight no bow to this one but it has a crumbly looking knot in one side in the heart wood that I think might cause an issue. Again here are some pics.
(http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa29/rascal_382/YewStaves0062.jpg)
(http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa29/rascal_382/YewStaves0072.jpg)
(http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa29/rascal_382/YewStaves0082.jpg)
(http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa29/rascal_382/YewStaves0092.jpg)
I guess really my questions are pretty simple so far. Do I need to let this wood acclimate to my state and if so how long? Is that knot in the side of the smaller stave gonna be a big problem? How much of a problem is that bow in the smaller stave gonna be? On the larger stave what do I need to do for that big knot?
I want to make a rigid handle longbow (think Glen St. Charles style) that will be used for hunting, target shooting, stumping, etc. Im trying for 55-60 pounds and both of them will be shot by persons about 5' 6" tall. That brings up another question I guess how long should the bow itself be if the shooter is 66" tall? both bows will be comfortable drawn to 28 - 28.5 inches draw length.
Oh and here is one more picture to show that bow in a larger view on the smaller of the two pieces.
(http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa29/rascal_382/YewStaves0052.jpg)
Hopefully I can get lucky, or maybe Ill just have the right combination of skill and patience to make two bows out of these staves... Who am I kidding Ill hope for luck.
Here's a yew buid along from my website that may help. Click on the thumbnail to enlarge the pictures and read text use the drop down box for pages 2 & 3.
http://groups.msn.com/ferretsarcherywebpage/buildingayewflatbow.msnw
Be sure and use a respirator, yew dust can be highly toxic.
Doesnt look like I have a lot of sapwood to work with so from what Ive read I should probably just clean it up rather than try to take much off.
Yes the sapwood on yours looks fine as is. Debark and start building.
I never even thought of Yew being toxic. I just built my first selfbow and did all the shaving and sanding without any protective gear.
Looks like I'll add a respirator to my tool list. :eek:
yew wood makes a great flatbow.1 3/4" wide to mid limb,down to 5/8" tips. for a 28" draw i would make the bow 64" tip to tip.keep just alittle radius to the belly. back with goat rawhide from tandy leather.you can put snakeskins over the rawhide if you like. just another option to consider.
Hadn't considered backing the bow to be honest, do I have to back it? Ill probably let the staves rest a bit since it cant hurt at any rate. Ill work off some of the sap wood soon though. More pictures will surely follow as I procede.
if your shooting for 55#-60# i would highly recommend backing it with rawhide.
Well I took the bark off the smaller of the two staves tonight since the fella I purchased them from said that would be alright. I used a draw knife turned upside down and a couple of pieces of glass that I cut as a scrapers. Couple of very small mixing spatulas out of my tool box took care of the stuff I couldnt get with the larger tools. Im pretty happy with the results and will post more pictures tomorrow, probably some as it is now and after I do layout marks.
I noticed Im not gonna be so lucky on my second stave it has a couple of cracks in it that go through the bark and into the sap wood. Gonna have to chase a deeper ring on that one, Oh well its all good experience right?
Kendall .. I guess Ill have to check into backing it then. Do I need to make any special considerations while making the bow if I back it versus not backing it or is it just an additional step after completion. I guess if I gotta back it then I would rather see snake skin if I cant have the wood showing. BTW where from in N.E. Iowa, close to Fort Dodge at all?
Shad, Do the cracks go length wise or across? Don't worry about length wise cracks.They won't be a problem unless they run off the side once your bow is layed out.
Back your staves once you get them to floor tiller.I am by know means an expert with yew so I won't even try to comment on the know in the second stave. But the knot on the first stave should be OK if you leave that area a little stiff.
Amen on what Micky says. I finished a boo backed yew bow a few months ago and didn't heed the warnings. After sanding I spent a couple of days feeling really bad!!!!
Rawhide gets added after bow shaping and prior to finish tillering.
If you use thin rawhide..clarified calfskin or doe skin rawhide from near the belly, it is hardly visible on the sapwood and really protects the soft yew wood back.
I have made them both ways, with and without backing. The one in my yew build along is without, but on my wife's elb I backed it with doeskin rawhide.
HB..only a couple of days? You got lucky. After finishing the 2 bows mentioned above I was REALLY SICK for almost 2 months.
You can back them with silk also,...can find great patterns that will help cover the whiteness of the sapwood for hunting porpuses.
I was down right nausious(sp) for a couple of days.
A month or so ago, I decided to clean up the wood shop-Vacked out the mountain of shavins and dust from under my jointer and again, sick as heck for a few days. Took me a couple of days to figure out what was hitting me. I guess the shop vac was kicken out fine dust from the exhaust.
I have two more staves of the stuff and I'm gonna be xtra careful the next go around.
And come to think of it, I haven't been feeling all that well since-Thought maybe I was just allergic to work or nagging :) :)
OK as promised here are some more pics of that debarked stave and after layout lines were drawn (if they dont show well enough I may draw them with marker). I decided to lay this out a little on the long side (72" long, 1" wide at the handle, 1 1/8" wide at the fade out and 5/8" wide at the tips. As mentioned earlier Im going to try for 55-60# @ 28" longbow with rigid handle of about 12 ". Im sure that will all change a bit after final shaping.
Think I may have a little twist in the stave. It shows a bit in this one.
(http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa29/rascal_382/YewStaveLayout0012.jpg)
That pesky knot isnt going to be a problem now that I see the lay out lines are quite far in from it. Although Im kinda nervous about that bend in the stave.
(http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa29/rascal_382/YewStaveLayout0022.jpg)
If these layout lines dont show up well enough Ill hit em with a fine marker.
(http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa29/rascal_382/YewStaveLayout0032.jpg)
Linc I dont think any of the cracks go off the side on the other stave Ill know more when I get the bark off. Its a relief to know that I didnt get a junk stave.
Ill make sure to pick up a few dust masks at the store for sure after hearing the stories here.
I guess Ill need to start looking for backing material, Id rather be safe than sorry. Any good sources for the raw hide backing?
Are you trying to finish this bow for this coming season? If not, I'd suggest setting the yew staves aside and working on another less costly stave first.
In my experience (been building about six years) new bowyers usually ruin at least their first couple staves before they get something that can stand up to long-term use without being backed. The exception to this is if you're lucky enough to have an experienced bowyer who can personally mentor you and be around when you're working to remind you to SLOW DOWN.
Please don't think I'm trying to put you down or anything. I'd just hate to have you ruin these staves as I'm sure you paid a pretty penny for each. Money doesn't grow on trees, at least not for most of us...;-)
I dont have a time table for completion actually, Ill finish when Im done I suppose. As far as the expense of the staves and my patience I am well aware of the cost and Im not gonna hurry this at all. Ive spent about 6 hours doing what little you see done right now. Although I do appreciate the reminder all the same.
Im pretty set on using the staves Ive got right now, Ive got my brother (lucky to have a brother whos a tree trimmer) getting me some black locust logs for next year.
Aree you sure you want a 12" rigid handle?That's A LOT of non bending wood.
A 4 inch handle and (2) 2" fades totals 8". Where is the other 4" of rigidity coming from?
I was going by some measurements out of Billets to Bows by Glenn St. Charles, 4 inch handle with 4 inches either side of handle for fades for a total of 12 inches. I would think the length I planned on would be plenty for that sort of handle. Is there a reason you go with 2 inch fades Ferret? Im no bowyer by any stretch of my imagination so if you can tell me a better way or tell me why one is better than the next way Ill be happy to listen.
Just went and looked at my copy of Billets to Bows (the Book) and Glenn was using sister billets with a long W splice. I can only assume he used the long fades to keep bending away from the ends of the splice which covered about 8" looking at the pics. I also see he was building the deep cored American Long Bow or ALB which favored the English Long Bow or ELB only the ALB has distinctive fades and dips.So now it make sense.There aren't a lot of bowyers around who still build that type of bow.
If you were going to build a shorter flatbow with a shallow d crss section ala Chet Stevenson, say 66" tip to tip or less, most bowyers go with a 4" handle and either 1 1/2" or 2" fades. A 1 1/2" fade will be steeper and a 2" fade will be more gradual in the dips (where the handle dips to the belly of the limb).The shorter fades would be required on the shorter bow where you have less wood to woork with for your bending limbs.
Mickeys point is that with shorter fades it is easier on the limbs because there is more limb to be working. When you get to the tillering stage sometimes the extra length on the limbs makes a difference. At 72" it will be fine for the 4 inch fades but if you miss your weight and start shortening it to make up weight things could get a bit trickier when it comes to tillering.
When it comes down to it you can basicaly try whatever you want to try to get your desired bow at the end. Some things work others don't. Everyone finds their own ways as they build a few. But thats the fun of it realy.
I haven't worked yew so I'm not sure what it likes. I've built a few Osage selfbows and others here have built just about everything (Mickey and other LOL) I rely on them alot if I have a question.
Have fun and keep us updated with these pics. We love seeing then.
Cool project Rascal, keep us posted. I second the yew dust precautions. Osage dust makes my throat sore but yew dust makes me feel real sick. Be careful when sanding or making fine dust. Use cutting tools like drawknife, scrapers, etc. as much as possible and use rasps and sandpaper with caution for dust. Especially post pictures when you start to tiller. Lots of good advice will come your way.
Hey Ferret, if you get a chance to put some dimensions down for that flat bow design I would be interested in looking them over. Im not sold on any one design at this point and I think the staves would lend themselves to virtually any bow design. Is there a benefit to a flatbow versus the ALB when using Yew? It was my impression that Osage made the better flat bows and I want to tackle Osage in the future. I basically picked this design because of the resource I had to go from, mainly Glenn St. Charles book. Who am I to argue with the likes of Glenn. Ill probably follow Al Herrin's advice on Osage since Ive read his work but again thats about the extent of my resources right now. I tried not to get too many ideas going at one time, just wanted to focus on one thing and see how things turned out.
Im not brave enough to just go my own direction at this point and these two staves wont be the last that feel the bite of my tools. I dont plan on doing cookie cutter versions on every piece of wood I tackle so any ideas you pass along wont be wasted I have a note book with all kinds of stuff written down already.
Thats the way to do it rascal. This stuff is adictive. I have a few staves just waiting for me to have the time to work on them. Each ends up much different than the ones before it.
I second what that guy said earlyer, ...I would go buy a couple of 5 $$ boards and get used to the tillering process and the use of the tools before taking on a precious YEW stave.
Well I think its time I made a decent bench for working these staves, got some oak 1 1/4" thick and lots of heavy treated timbers. Probably just mount the 2 home made wood vises I fabricated (helps when you are a millwright by trade) onto this so I can clamp it at both ends if needed. Jaws are wood padded so I wont be marring the stave when I clamp it. Should make working on this a little easier than just single vise on an old greasy bench. Ill have to improvise some lighting no doubt.
OK managed to get a lot done today after putting a decent work bench together. I stuck with my original layout, perhaps a bit wider after the fade from handle but the rest is the same. Of course its still just rough shaped so all of this is subject to change as called for by the process. Anyhow here are some pictures.
Heres the bench with dual vises. Actually it has a clamp on vise on the end as well.
(http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa29/rascal_382/YewStaveRoughout0012.jpg)
One more shot of the layout, still doesnt show perfectly.
(http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa29/rascal_382/YewStaveRoughout0022.jpg)
I used a hand power plane to take off the bulk of the wood, much easier than anything else I had access to (note to self bandsaw = good). You can see the plane in the bottom of the picture if you look.
(http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa29/rascal_382/YewStaveRoughout0032.jpg)
Im still quite worried about the follow thats built into this bow and plan to attempt to clamp it up and take that out if I can. By my estimate its 13/16" high at center when resting on the belly wood.
(http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa29/rascal_382/YewStaveRoughout0072.jpg)
Here is a series of pics after using a 14" farriers file on the stave to reduce it to the lines and close to final shape (minus any work on the belly).
I have a couple of knots that are bothering me on the sides of this stave, this one is on the fade from the handle. I think its just gonna be a beauty mark, just a tad thicker in this area for safety.
(http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa29/rascal_382/YewStaveRoughout0082.jpg)
This one is close on the limb but I think Ill end up cutting it out by the time is done. (notice I have 2 sets of layout lines right now? Thats cause Im a chicken and dont wanna get too close to final dimension too quick.)
(http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa29/rascal_382/YewStaveRoughout0092.jpg)
Here is a knot on the other side that may or may not be an issue it doesnt really touch the layout line but those are just rough lines for my benefit right now so who knows.
(http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa29/rascal_382/YewStaveRoughout0112.jpg)
The follow didnt improve much with working the stave. I can pretty well flatten the stave out with the 2 vises without even working the belly of the bow not sure if I should just lock it up like that and leave it for a week and see if that has an affect or try to make a form to put some reflex into it (likely only managing to get it straight).
(http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa29/rascal_382/YewStaveRoughout0122.jpg)
Anyhow thats whats happening right now with my project it will slow down after I take a bit off the belly Im sure. I havent done anything about getting the backing for it yet so thats quickly becoming a priority.
Hey quick question, earlier in the post goat skin rawhide was suggested for backing the bow and I saw that it was reasonable enough at tandy Also if Im gonna back this bow then Im inclined to get some snake skins to cover the limbs with, now were do I get them? Ive read Ferrets page on applying the the snakeskins, is the process the same for backing with rawhide?
rascasl..one thing I notice is your belly lines do not follow the back. They must follow the back on each side. If the wood on the back humps the wood on the belly must follow the same contour
Check out my pictorial below, page 7 about 1/2 way down the page to see how this is done. Don't do this and you get thick and thin spots int he limb and possibly a bow ruining hinge
http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=000046;p=7
Your knots don't look like they will cause any significant problems to me.
If you're worried about the backset, the easiest thing to do is to rough the bow out and then bend it with heat to reflex it. When you try to bend the wood, I'd recommend drawing the limbs down enough so you can bend them about 5 inches. You can make a fancy steam deal, but the last couple bows I had to bend I just heated the stave over a burner on my electric stove. Worked fine, as long as you GO SLOW.
Also, I must admit that reading of your decision to use saws has me quite worried. Nothing ruins a first bow faster than a saw blade. I understand that you want to see results fast, but if you want this first bow to be usable you MUST SLOW DOWN! And I'd also recommend not worrying so much about having all lines be straight. Wood grain usually isn't straight, so if it is your intent to follow the grain then you need to get used to incorporating subtle curves into the design of your bows. It doesn't have to end up looking like it was made by a machine !-)
And I stick with my original recommendation to set the yews aside and find a couple cheaper pieces of wood to start with. This way if you end up ruining them with a bandsaw it won't break your heart!
Again, just my two cents...
-Eric
Spot on Eric ! :bigsmyl: :bigsmyl:
Ferret, just read that link excellent information there. You have a knack for making things very clear that will help me a lot.
Eric thanks for the advice on reflexing, you think this will take 5 inches of reflex to take that set out of the limbs? I actually used a power plane to take the bulk of the wood off not a saw. It takes 1/64" per stroke and never tears the wood like a block plane. I worked it down to within about 3/16" from my lines and then switched to the file Im still over 1/8" to 1/16" from finish dimensions depending on where you measure.
As far as the lines call it a bad habit its just something for me to guage by not a final destination. All the work so far has been to get this down to a rough shape of a bow it still takes 2 wood vises just to bend it a little. So far Ive only used this one power tool, granted it saved me a lot of time but the point was the control it gave me. I started with a block plane and it was tearing the wood, I tried the draw knife but again I was taking more than I cared for. Basically after using this I had a piece of Yew that was about 1 3/4" wide end to end.
I still have a bit of wood to work with for width its cautiously close at this point. My plan was to do about the same to the belly. If I get the basic handle shape and then trim the belly of the limbs down to something reasonable close to the lines maybe 1 1/4 inch thick I shouldnt be in any danger of going too far should I? Right now I probably have 2 1/2" of wood from back to belly and that runs tip to tip. I wouldnt think I am in any danger of messing this up at this point. Ill slow this down and take another hard look at what Ive got so far but it seems I need to at least get some of the wood off the belly before its even roughed out.
Thanks for keeping us posted. You can straighten or backset the bow with a heat gun and a caul (form to clamp to) as on Ferrets page or other threads. This is easiest to do when you are close to rough demensions but not yet bending past floor tiller. I like your confidance working with the yew stave first. What's the worst that can happen? A spectacular explosion of wood pieces and a couple "that'll leave a mark" dings - no big deal.
LOL well thats one way to look at it Shaun, faint heart never won fair maiden eh?
Anyhow I applied what I gathered from Ferret about following the contour of the back in a somewhat unique way. I first used blue painters tape to cover my original (and what I deemed as cautious) rough layout lines and then plotted a 3/4" line following the back. Then with an exacto knife I cut the tape on the line and removed the excess. As it turns out the closest I would have gotten to my original line was 3/16" and that was near the tips.
Basically I figure that I should be at least 1/8" - 1/16" over width at any give point on the bow and thats roughing it out to the largest dimensions Ive found on an ALB. Im not cocky but I am pretty confident that Ive left plenty of meat on the stave to work with. I guess time will tell, but hey you gotta make some chips if you plan to end up with a bow right?
I use a pencil and my fingers to scribe the line like using a compass to mark a thickness from the back that follows the back. This ends up close to following the grain of the wood. As a millwright, you should have the skills to do some fine woodworking. I spent many years as a union carpenter and did some millwright work. Mostly working with metal machines instead of the wooden shafts and gears that turned in old mills - where the term originated. Have fun and post lots of pictures.
Shaun Ill make sure to post lots of pictures for sure. In fact Im due for some more now that Ive taken the back down to approximate dimensions this evening. I took the handle down to about 2 inches in depth and the limbs down to about 1 inch in depth. The stave now is starting to resemble a bow at his point. I can just start to bend the limbs now when I brace it against the floor. After getting it close with the draw knife I used a glass scraper to feather the grain down the limbs and work around a couple of knots. Made sure to leave plenty of wood in the one knot that was in a flexible part of the limb. Long slow work, all that scraping, but Im pretty happy with the results so far.
Ive clamped it to the bench for the evening in hopes of taking a bit of that follow out before I try to reflex it on a caul. Still trying to figure out what I have handy to heat the stave while clamping it down to the caul. Oh well thats a problem for tomorrow.
Ill take a few more pictures tomorrow after I pull the clamps off it and before I try to make a caul and do the reflex with heat. Hmmm I guess I should have asked Eric some details on what he meant about reflexing this 5 inches. Does that mean making the caul 5 inches lower on the ends than in the center? Sure seems like a lot to me if my goal is just to end up with a bow that is straight or just a slight bit of follow.
Well I still havent managed the time to get anymore pictures today. I made a caul to reflex the roughed out stave, copied what I saw on Ferret's site for that. Also made a tillering tree since Im pretty sure Ill need to take a bit more off of the stave before I attempt to reflex it.
How far along in the tillering process should I be before I reflex the bow anyhow. Right now Im just able to start bending the limbs while bracing them against the floor and even then I feel Im using quite a bit of force.
Your caul will need to be flat for the middle 8"(non bending part of the bow or maybe in your case 12") and bend gradually to the tips from there. I make mine lower on the tips by about 2 3/4" over a 68" spread. You will lose some of that when you pull it off the caul and some more when tillering, but my goal is to come out with it even to less than one inch of reflex in the end. You will want your limbs less than 3/4" thick before you put it on the caul. It should bend pretty well at floor tiller. If you have another bow feel what that feels like at floor tiller to give you an idea of how much pressure it takes to bend that kind of weight. You won't want it that easy of course cause you still have to remeove wood to get the limbs to bend evenly, but it will give you and idea.
5" of reflex is just nuts. Hard to tiller , hard to string, and touchy to shoot.(IMO)
Thanks Ferret that helps a lot, guess its back to the woodshop to make another caul. Already made a 74" caul with 5" of reflex as suggested earlier, Oh well may yet use that on some wild experiment another day.
I did make the caul with a 12" flat for this bow, Im a bit curious as to what affect the extra 4 inches of limb I have will do to the measurements on the caul. If yours is 68 I have an additional 4 inches in length to consider wouldnt this require slightly more reflex? Perhaps 3" would do it?
Well Ill have to make a trip to the lumber yard and get more material for the caul and will need to take a touch more off the bow limbs, busy day. Ill get a few more pics up today as well, I know Ive gotten behind :)
Yeah, I see that what I wrote is easy to misinterpret. I didn't mean that you should reflex the bow five inches. What I meant was that you should tiller the limbs down until you could bend them five inches, with the idea that this level of "bendi-ness" would make them easier to heat and bend as needed. I didn't say how much you should reflex the limbs, as that'll depend on what you want your bow to look like.
Five inches of reflex would be radical overkill! Sorry for the confusion!
All the best,
ELG
3" over 72" wouldn't hurt a thing, and would probably give you 2 1/2 at 68". You'll lose about 25% of any induced reflex when you pull it off the caul.The nice thing about a 72" stave is if you do happen to miss weight you can shorten it and make some of your weight back.
and I agree with Eric.... get the limbs bending a few inches before inducing your reflex.
Yup spent some time with the draw knife earlier and took a bit of meat off the limbs, got it bending pretty well now. Just checking to see that they are bending somewhat evenly now before I heat and form them.
Well Ive been lazy but I finally got around to some pictures again, mostly things have went well since the last update. Thanks again Ferret your advice and your site have been a real asset. Eric dont sweat the confusion, Im easily confused and quick to recover =).
Speaking of confusion heres what a 5" reflex caul would look like if anyone were silly enough to build one.
(http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa29/rascal_382/Yew%20stave%20reflex/YewStaveReflex0012.jpg)
Now on to more serious matters this is what a 3" x 74" caul looks like, seems a bit more manageable dont it?
(http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa29/rascal_382/Yew%20stave%20reflex/YewStaveReflex0022.jpg)
I also took the time since last posting to build a simple tiller frame just so I could stretch this thing out a bit.
(http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa29/rascal_382/Yew%20stave%20reflex/YewStaveReflex0042.jpg)
Here is a quick look at what the stave looks like roughed out and getting "bendy". The blue painters tape is a real help for me, I mark approximately where I wanna be and cut the tape off to that line. Then I can work my way to the tape.
(http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa29/rascal_382/Yew%20stave%20reflex/YewStaveReflex0032.jpg)
I managed to get the stave to flex about 5" as suggested before going after the reflexing step. The left limb was pretty stiff due to a couple of knots I was avoiding, I took more off of them before trying it on the Caul.
(http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa29/rascal_382/Yew%20stave%20reflex/YewStaveReflex0052.jpg)
Now I dont own a heat gun, the closest I could get was a radiant heater and a propane torch to heat this up, I tried to make sure not to scorch the wood while getting it hot but there was a little. Good thing Im not down to final dimensions eh? It went fairly well and I think the one "OOPS" is repairable, maybe you can tell me for sure.
Heres the left side getting the heat and form treatment.
(http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa29/rascal_382/Yew%20stave%20reflex/YewStaveReflex0062.jpg)
Heres the right side getting its heat and form treatment.
(http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa29/rascal_382/Yew%20stave%20reflex/YewStaveReflex0072.jpg)
Ands heres the "OOPS" I mentioned earlier.
(http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa29/rascal_382/Yew%20stave%20reflex/YewStaveReflex0082.jpg)
I managed to crack the handle just up from the fade while forming the left side. That was the side I had to work the knots down on but apparently it was still a little on the stiff side. Not sure what the best repair is for this but since it is in the nonbending portion of the bow I gotta believe it is repairable. Ive got some nice Brazilian Koa that I can glue up for the handle if I have to cut this portion off.
Any advice on this one?
Geez a heat gun is $10 at Harbor freight
I'd CA glue and clamp the handle. I think it will be alright. Bummer.
Nice job on the caul. That should leave you with a pleasing profile.
Coming along nicely. Yeah, heat guns are cheap, get one for the next bow. In the pic on your tiller tree, you are getting a "hinge" just past the stiff handle section on the right. This is a place where it bends too much in one spot. Look out for these and mark the area "NO" to keep from removing any more wood there till the rest of the limb catches up.
It came off the caul with just a bit of reflex, perhaps an inch is all. I did some sanding and shaping to the limb and handle profile just to get into a basic shape that I wanted and went back to the tiller tree. I flexed it a few times just to get an idea of how that stiff limb was acting. After flexing a few times it has under an inch of follow, I can live with that.
Shaun I see that hinge now that you point it out, Ill make sure to pay special attention to that area as I try to get the other limb bending. This is the part that Im dreading the most. I think I still have lots of meat left on the limbs, its not real easy to bend or even close to weight so I should get lots of practice fixing my mistakes.
Ferret thanks Ill try that CA glue, I dont think its even gonna show to be honest. It was disappointing to hear that pop while I was clamping it up though.
The handle turned out quite well after applying a little glue and clamping it up. Im confident its not gotta be an issue. I had to do some pretty good prying to open it up just to get glue into it.
Well it took a trip out of town but I managed to purchase another bow scale (you just know Ill find the old one now that Ive driven to Des Moines and back). Luckily I slipped in a little family fun in the process so I could keep in the good graces here at home.
Ill be starting the tillering process straight away the next chance I get. Gotta get a little more stock off the limbs for sure as its still way to stiff. I dont think Ill be using much more than the scraper at this point though and Ill get some pics up with this bent on my tiller tree for your review.
Ok I think I am going to have some time to do some tiller work on this soon and wanted to drop a couple of pictures here for advice yet again.
Here I used a tight string and pulled it down to 22" and 43#. I didnt excercise the bow much before this one.
(http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa29/rascal_382/Tiller/YewStaveTiller0042.jpg)
Here again a tight string and pulled down to 22" went 40# after excercising the limbs 40 times.
(http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa29/rascal_382/Tiller/YewStaveTiller0032.jpg)
I could probably brace this to 3" and take some more pics but I think there is some work I can see by looking at the current pictures. Lemme know what the experts think on this one. Im taking baby steps here, I dont wanna go under weight or snap a limb by rushing.
Yeow :eek: First off there is no way this bow should be on a tight string or pulled to 20" yet. You are asking for follow big time.
Never draw it ONE INCH further than you see a problem and correct that problem.
You are near a hinge wher I have marked red (write NO in this area and stay away from it. You need to work on the areas I have marked green
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v247/theferret111/yewbow.jpg)
Thanks Ferret, Ill work those areas you mentioned and get some more pics up after that. Now when I say tight string its not like the string I have on it is flexing the bow without my assistance (drawing). Ill mind drawing it past the first peg (12") on the tiller tree after this as well.
Also the area you have marked in red has a significant hump in the wood, natural imperfection not by my hand. Is there anything special I need to consider for that?
Im only using a scraper to work the limbs so I dont know that this made a lot of difference. I marked the hinge with blue tape so I would stay well away from it and took a close up of that area just so you could get a good look at it.
I pulled this down to the 12" mark to check it which was about 20#. If thats still too much I can modify my tiller tree so it has more pegs.
Heres that natural hump in the wood.
(http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa29/rascal_382/Tiller/Tiller20012.jpg)
Heres a pic pulled at 12" I dont think I changed much with what little scraping I did.
(http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa29/rascal_382/Tiller/Tiller20022.jpg)
How much should I be removing in order to see a change in the profile?
Not sure Ive accomplished a lot here but wanted to gather some opinions on how this is looking after working the limbs a bit as suggested by Ferret. I took some pictures with the limbs unflexed and some with just to give a more complete picture of what I have going on.
This is unflexed
(http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa29/rascal_382/Tiller/One001.jpg)
Unflexed right limb
(http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa29/rascal_382/Tiller/One002.jpg)
Unflexed left limb
(http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa29/rascal_382/Tiller/One003.jpg)
Flexed to 12"
(http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa29/rascal_382/Tiller/One004.jpg)
Flexed right limb
(http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa29/rascal_382/Tiller/One005.jpg)
Flexed left limb
(http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa29/rascal_382/Tiller/One006.jpg)
Im hoping that gives a better scope of what Im working with but if the unflexed pictures arent helpful I wont bother with them anymore. I didnt take any weight measurements this time but it seemed a lot easier to pull down and I feel as if Ive taken a fair bit of wood off the areas suggested.
Any thaughts on what I need to do next would be appreciated.
Tillering uneven limbs is a lot more difficult than it has to be. If it were me, I'd take another run at it with the heat except this time use a heatgun and really take your time.
What kind of weight are you getting at 12"? I don't heat bend until I am real close to floor tillered. For me that means weighing 10# under my desired draw at 16" or so. That put's me close to desired draw weight at 20" although I rarely bend it that far this early in the game. This makes it a lot easier to heat bend.
I guess Im not completely sure what you are getting at when you say "take another run at it with the heat". Do you mean to straighten out all the uneven spots in the limbs? I was getting about 20# last time I checked at 12" John. I want a final weight of about 55-60 @ 28", from what Ive gathered here that will eventually leave me with closer to 50-55 after some initial break in period. Not sure what weight that means I should expect at 12" though.
Looks to me that you are not following the contour of the sapwood, go very slow as you are getting some of the heart wood pretty thin in spots.
Good luck, Bert.
Ill take some measurements tomorrow on the limbs and see if I can even them out, I guess I was more concerned with getting them to bend correctly. One spot on the left limb has a pin knot that Ive been leaving extra wood around so that might be part of it.
Yes, I'd heatbend it again. But only if it is down to floor tiller. Assume 3# per inch of draw so 20# at 12" means about 32# at 16". This is pretty light if you are working to 55-60#. You can still make it but you have to be super careful on tillering. It's fine for heatbending.
Let's back up just a bit. When I tiller, I don't like to bend much at all before I am positive my layout is a perfect as it can be.
I rough the bow out and get it all cleaned up. Then I basically lay it out again, being very careful that my width profile is perfect.
Then I you start floor tillering. Bend it just a few inches and feel the weight. If you have a bow that you can compare it to, this helps a lot for you first few times.
The rest of tillering for me is explained here: Tillering 101 (http://residents.bowhunting.net/sticknstring/tiller101.html)
The bow looks like it's coming along, but as I've said before I think you're moving a little too fast and that you're going to miss you draw. Not a big deal, I suppose, as you can always cut 1/2 inch off each nock and retiller until you reach it, but you won't end up with a bow the length you wanted.
If I were in your shoes, I'd set the bow aside and take a few weeks off. Then come back to it and try and work a little slower. But as my previous posts have shown, I'm definitely biased towards going more slowly...
Hope you end up with a bow you're proud of!
-Eric
Checked out that tillering 101 and will definetly use that page thanks John.
Eric Im not nearly as concerned about length on this one to be honest, I intentionally made it long because I figured something could go wrong and I might need to shorten it a touch. I havent really touched the bow (taking wood off) in close to a week now, Im not arsed about finishing it on any time table. I knew the tillering was gonna be the most difficult portion of the build for me and would take the most time. Ill get back to the tillering when I feel comfortable with the process, not sure how long that might take me though =).
Rascal, Sorry I have'nt check this post for awhile. I'm in Allamakee co.N.E.corner of Iowa.PM me if I can be of any help.