While discussing the upcoming season with a few coworkers, 3 out of 3 said that they have not so much as got their bows out of the case much less shot them since last season, with only 4 days left before our opener.
As archers, no matter our choice in equipment, is it not our responsibility to be the best we can be in order to make a quick and clean kill?
No matter how many or how few bells and whistles you may have, human error is always a constant, and without practice and tuning theres no way that you can become proficient with any kind of bow, trad. or otherwise without practice.
Sorry to be long winded, but it just chaps my a&%, to think that guys like these, with no ethics, or respect for the game they hunt, will be hunting in the woods with you, or adjacent to you!
Im sure these guys are the few and not the many, but when farmer Brown finds dead, unclaimed carcasses strewn around his property, it gives us all a black eye.
Seems sad that the many should have to pay the price for the few.
Yep guys around here were just this week draggin there bows out and trying to draw them.
"Seems sad that the many should have to pay the price for the few."
Always been that way brother, no matter what aspect of life we're talking about. The only answer is education, but even still not all students pass with flying colors. Some guys may not even know the deffinition of "ethics". Not to be pounding on compound shooters(because you didn't say what your coworkers were shooting)but I most often find this kind of outlook/attitude to be the most prevelent with them. Could be just laziness, but certainly shows no zeal or love for the sport. Me, I HAVE to practice all year long or I couldn't hit anything!LOL
Not taking this lightly, maybe a heart to heart talk would do more good than you might realize. ;)
are you saying 3 out of 3 traditional archers still have bows unshot since last season 4 days out from opening day ???
personally I have not seen traditional bowhunters not shooting till just before season 3 times in the last 40 years
The last lease I was on did not allow bow hunters anymore. She had seen a bunch of deer and hogs running around with arrows poorly placed hanging out of them. I guess it was people who didn't practice or wouldn't pass on an iffy shot.
I have a small archery shop here and I really believe "that" is the norm...people wait till the last minute to get things together...sad but true..seems more common with compound shooters ; but then that is the vast majority of "archers" here...just saying
My next door neighbor (compound shooter) just started shooting his bow 2 weeks ago. I have been shooting year round. I even was shooting my quiver full of broadheads making sure there were no issues with them. I then resharpened them and put them back in the quiver. I agree with you moleman. It chaps mine also.
Corey, they are not trad. shooters. All the trad. shooters ive encountered work to perfect their skills. For these guys its bells and whistles all the way, and i guess by there way of thinking, with all these gadgets, why do i need to practice, thats why i bought them.
I worked in an archery shop on and off for about ten years. Guys would come in on a friday night, buy a new bow and gear and plan on going out the next morning. Crap like that frustrated me. That's one of the reasons I stopped working there.
True- but I am also sure it has worked this way for years with firearms. The good news with bows- few of those folks ever hunt well enough to be of a concern.
moleman - thanks
no surprize - this is what I expect. It is disgusting. I have no other comments - this is tradgang
Bulldog, my neighbor hasn't shot his YET ......... he hasn't been hunting yet either, but I'm sure he will go sooner or later whether he's practiced any or not.
Alexander Traditional, the post you made hits home real hard.
I have nearly 300 acres that adjoin my property that i hunted for over 20 yrs, the experience that you speak of is part of what caused all of the no hunting policies of the land owner, that and the general disrespect for the property itself.
I shoot almost every day year round because its FUN!
thats sad. the compoung guys i know around here all take it serious, like we do. makes me sick to hear of anyone, trad, compound, or otherwise, who doesnt.
LITTLEBIGMAN, im with you, not only am i honing my skills, but i have a great time doing it!
I have known alot of compound shooters that pull their bows out a week before season and shoot a few times and say I'm good to go. It shows a complete lack of respect for animals and ethics. I always speak my mind and tell them you are not even close too ready for hunting. Thats where we usually part ways.
I'll have to put compound bows in the same class as crossbows. They are the preferred tools of lazy hunters. I know there are serious hunters in both categories who practice and prepare for the season ahead. The majority of compound hunters I know pull them out of the closet a week or so before the season tweak the sights and head for the woods. This goes especially for the younger hunters I know. It seems they want the easy way to accomplish whatever they do. My nephew who shoots pretty well missed a deer last week and the first thing out of his mouth was "If I had a compound I would have hit it" like this is some magic solution to making you a better hunter. I've seen compound shooters who can almost drive nails but as we all know this doesn't translate to hunting situations where yardage is unknown and other variables affect the shot. I'm not knocking compound bows with proper preparation they are a deadly tool, just lazy hunters and to be honest trad archery doesn't appeal to lazy hunters.
You are so right mickeys4, no matter what you shoot, theres no such thing as " instant success", and nothing can replace dedication.
QuoteOriginally posted by LITTLEBIGMAN:
I shoot almost every day year round because its FUN!
Me to.........But I know gun guys who never sight in from year to year and bow guys [not bow hunters] who do the same with their equipment. Thank goodness there are folks like the people on here who do the right thing.......at least most of us.
That is one of the reasons folks love their bells and whistles. They don't have to practice, they don't have to scout, they don't have to live the life. They want the glory of the Booner for very little cost in terms of expended energy. And they want it now. . That is our society. Look around you. It isn't just bowhunting, it is in everything we do.
Another sore point. . I have hunted deer with bows and arrows since I was 16 (I am 57 now), and for small game well before that. I am out in the woods a TON, yet I have seen only one animal that had an arrow in it that I didn't just place there. Arrows are fragile and break or are pulled out, almost every time, maybe every time.
Where do these folks see "too many", implying there are alot of them.
ChuckC
most of the compound guys I know take there bow to the range, sight it in and think the bow is what kills the deer. The beauty of trad hunting is we know it is the hunter that kills the deer and we approach it a greater reverance.
There are hunters...
there are slob hunters....
Then there are guys who go and hunt...
I know wheelie guys that fit all three...
I know gun hunters who fit all three...
Very few slob hunting trad hunters because the price of admission usually discourages most of the lazy ones from even trying...
But we all have our few....
I can count 5 guys I work with that I have been talking hunting with the past few weeks and still they have yet to even shoot there bows (compound guys). They haven't scouted, they haven't did anything but give me hell because I switched to traditional and I have decided to do it from the ground. They have been calling me Robin Hood for the past month poking fun at me. Dosen't bother me a bit because I have been shooting and scouting and when deer season opens up in Va I know I will be ready.
Well, while those guys are compounders, I am sure there as many guys that shoot trad bows that hasn't practiced enough either. It has nothing to do with the weapon, just the person. I am certain that moleman knows that because he didn't point it out until asked. Eitherway, some of you gus make me wander.
I am different from you a lot of you guys. While I hunt with a longbow or recurve, I also own a souped up, top of the line 2010 model Mission compound that has never seen the woods. It is a marvel of engineering. Super fast and quiet with my 500 grain arrows. 251 fps precisely. I shot it 2 weeks ago after not touching it since June of 2011. My first shot from 40 yards was within 2 inches of the bullseye and well within acceptable kill zone.
That is how they work. They are simply so tuned and precise, with the new string material being used that never stretches, they simply never lose tune. Making the time they require to be lethal mere minutes from the second you buy it. I imagine that if I don't pick it up for 5 years it will be the same thing. That is why guys like them.
With that said, I know some of each kind. The guys that wait till the last minute deserve no ridicule from me because they chose to coach the local football team or help out at church, or something else besides shoot their bow daily like me, unless it makes their performance on game questionable. I also know the guys that will shoot snuff can groups at 50-60 yards daily with their compounds because that is what they choose to do and feel it is nessecary to be ready when the time comes. So, what applies to one does not apply to all.
I know this is a trad site and a good one at that, but the one constant of them all is that alot of guys that hang out on them feel like they are ethically and morally superior to other hunters because they choose a stick bow. Ethics and morals are not defined by a weapon. They are defined by the person. If you extremists are not careful you are going to get what you give when the many compounders start arguing the same against us for even choosing the trad bow when a more precise and efficent weapon is avialable.
I didn't type this to argue and I won't. And I meant this only to the ones it applies. I hope this offends no one because it isn't my intent. But I am just telling you my opinion and what I see. It surely doesn't apply to everyone. Just be careful what you say and how you lump people into broad groups hased on their weapons choice because the arguement you use to try and prove your point can and will be looked at from different angles by different people. Good day and God Bless
Thanks awpforester.
QuoteOriginally posted by AWPForester:
Well, while those guys are compounders, I am sure there as many guys that shoot trad bows that hasn't practiced enough either. It has nothing to do with the weapon, just the person. I am certain that moleman knows that because he didn't point it out until asked. Eitherway, some of you gus make me wander.
I am different from you a lot of you guys. While I hunt with a longbow or recurve, I also own a souped up, top of the line 2010 model Mission compound that has never seen the woods.
With that said, I know some of each kind. The guys that wait till the last minute deserve no ridicule from me because they chose to coach the local football team or help out at church, or something else besides shoot their bow daily like me, unless it makes their performance on game questionable. I also know the guys that will shoot snuff can groups at 50-60 yards daily with their compounds because that is what they choose to do and feel it is nessecary to be ready when the time comes. So, what applies to one does not apply to all.
I know this is a trad site and a good one at that, but the one constant of them all is that alot of guys that hang out on them feel like they are ethically and morally superior to other hunters because they choose a stick bow. Ethics and morals are not defined by a weapon. They are defined by the person. If you extremists are not careful you are going to get what you give when the many compounders start arguing the same against us for even choosing the trad bow when a more precise and efficent weapon is avialable.
I didn't type this to argue and I won't. And I meant this only to the ones it applies. I hope this offends no one because it isn't my intent. But I am just telling you my opinion and what I see. It surely doesn't apply to everyone. Just be careful what you say and how you lump people into broad groups hased on their weapons choice because the arguement you use to try and prove your point can and will be looked at from different angles by different people. Good day and God Bless
Well said AWP.
To me, the most important things are:
knowing your limitations
passing on low percentage shots
sharp BH's
quiet bows
Taking shots at ranges you aren't proficient at, taking head-on/quartering to shots or shots at spooky animals, dull BH's, or shooting a bow that sounds like the kitchen sink just fell is as bad as not practicing, no matter the weapon.
I think this is true in a number of different aspects of life, not just hunting....
Traditional hunters have more dedication to practicing to become more efficient and it Requires more practice to be consistent.
This is not so true with compound bows that have sights with a peep on the string, and the use of a release aid....The last 3 years i carried a compound bow i could leave it on the wall all year long and with a couple practice shots shoot groups at 60 yards the size of your fist....
It's the same with rifle hunting. if you are an accomplished marksman that has been trained correctly there is nothing unethical about not practicing at all if you can shoot well.
Unfortunately the percentage of accomplished marksmen, and accomplished archers as well, is much smaller than the general population of hunters in the woods.....
I've known some darn good target and 3D archers that shoot constantly and absolutely come apart at the seems while hunting and can't hit the broad side of a barn....
Where does your ethics theory fit into this category of archers?
Your cup is either half empty... or half full depending on perspective. Ethics is nothing more than a moral philosophy......shall we define morality and see where it goes?
food for thought....
PS: i posted this at the same time as
AWPForester ..... Nicely said! :thumbsup:
The use of traditional bows whether it be a longbow or recurve takes a fair amount of shooting/practice to stay efficient. The reason I left my bows with training wheels is because I could go several months without shooting and pick it up and shoot softball sized groups at 40 yards and after a little practice I could shrink the group even more. The reason I would leave the bow sit for several months was because it was boring to me and offered no challenge anymore. Just about anybody can pick up a compound and with minimal practice be shooting good. That is not the case with traditional archery. It is a constant challenge to improve your capabilities within yourself and for hunting reasons that are never ending. I got my first decent compound when I was 16 years old and the only three 3d shoots I shot in I placed 2nd and 3rd twice shooting with adults. I am not saying that to brag but to make a point that it is a big difference between traditonal and compound shooting. To me their is a big difference in a guy who can leave his bow on the rack for 6 months and pick it up and start shooting with hunting accuracy over a man who has to shoot on a constant basis to keep his skills. In my opinion it is unethical to not practice using your hunting equipment before hitting the field whether it be traditional, compound, crossbow, or a firearm. I don't care who you are or how long you have been doing it we all owe it to the animals we pursue.
While we are on this subject ; I'll throw this out there...I noticed an ad on Craigs list for a horse..said it was used to pack in salt blocks and pack out elk..hmmm...the horse belonged to a "unusually" successful guy that is a member of a particular "religious" group in our area...seems like MOST of the group is "highly successful" ...all of them compound shooters...makes me wonder ?
:deadhorse:
In the coming months we will see a slew of "missed (1,2,3+)" and "missed again" threads by trad hunters they shoot year round. Overwhelmingly they are told to keep shooting - it will happen - it's all part of it. Anyone who practices a lot and still accept numerous misses/wounds is no different then one who puts in less time for similar results - and the missed/wounded animals can't tell the difference. How much someone practices with their choice of equipment is little indication of their ethics - results are.
I posted before reading Kirkall and AWP's posts - agree with them.
I don't own a compound. I know as many outstanding compound-using hunters as I do guys who shoot other bows. I've seen plenty of stickbow guys who...based on proficiency with their weapon...should be watching tv on Saturday mornings. There is a lot more to readiness and ethics than simply being able to shoot a bow, however. The bow doesn't make the man, or indicate his passion...dedication...or woods abilities. There are plenty of hapless trad hunters trudging to their hunting areas in October.
A final thought: I wonder how many of those 'last minute' compound dudes could out-shoot the average trad guy at 20 yards on opening morning? The answer might leave some guys feeling a bit uncomfortable.
QuoteOriginally posted by SteveB:
In the coming months we will see a slew of "missed (1,2,3+)" and "missed again" threads by trad hunters they shoot year round. Overwhelmingly they are told to keep shooting - it will happen - it's all part of it. Anyone who practices a lot and still accept numerous misses/wounds is no different then one who puts in less time for similar results - and the missed/wounded animals can't tell the difference. How much someone practices with their choice of equipment is little indication of their ethics - results are.
Thanks Steve, you just saved me from typing that.
I know a lot of guys who "practice" everyday who can't hit a pie plate @ 15 yards. Where are their ethics?
QuoteOriginally posted by Biggie Hoffman:
QuoteOriginally posted by SteveB:
In the coming months we will see a slew of "missed (1,2,3+)" and "missed again" threads by trad hunters they shoot year round. Overwhelmingly they are told to keep shooting - it will happen - it's all part of it. Anyone who practices a lot and still accept numerous misses/wounds is no different then one who puts in less time for similar results - and the missed/wounded animals can't tell the difference. How much someone practices with their choice of equipment is little indication of their ethics - results are.
Thanks Steve, you just saved me from typing that.
I know a lot of guys who "practice" everyday who can't hit a pie plate @ 15 yards. Where are their ethics? [/b]
THIS :thumbsup:
Just seems kind of lazy to me. I shoot both trad and compounds, while I am not proficient enough yet with my trad gear I am hoping to be come spring time. I have shot the broadheads I will be using on my compound since mid July, have sharpened and re-sharpened them close to 5 times, packed-unpacked and repacked my hunting pack, sharpened up my knife that was handed down to me by my grandfather, washed and sealed up my hunting clothes. It is all part of the fun for me, whether it be trad or otherwise it seems to me that the guys who don't pick up bows until a week or two before just must not enjoy archery???
QuoteOriginally posted by Iowabowhunter:
it seems to me that the guys who don't pick up bows until a week or two before just must not enjoy archery???
A particularly useful point. There are guys who gun hunt, yet don't especially enjoy shooting guns or get pleasure from it. The same situation applies to some bowhunters. They hunt and love hunting, but the bow is of no special interest. The bow is simply the requirement for them to hunt during archery season. It's not a mandate for guys to enjoy shooting/practicing with their weapon as much as they do hunting with it. It may actually be a chore to practice.
On the flip side: There are a number of guys who love to shoot traditional-type bows (and compounds too for that matter) yet have little interest in dedicated hunting.
You can't have bowhunting without archery, but that doesn't mean that a guy will love both.
I agree with SteveB and Biggie....go to a large shoot like Denton Hill, stand on the practice range, or shoot a course....and see the poor shooting, the "foam is good" mantra that abounds....and ask yourself....do these folks belong in the deer woods?
Yes, there are compound shooters and gun shooters who pull their equipment out before the season...and sight in and consider themselves good to go...are those people, who do that and hit what they aim for, less ethical or worse than the trad shooter who can't group, let alone hit vitals on a 3D animal at 15 yards?
Everyone comes at hunting from different perspectives....the guy shooting the compound may have totally different circumstances than a guy shooting a stickbow....
The guys who shoot compounds from my archery club shoot their bows year round....indoor target, outdoor field, 3d, etc...they are always shooting....they go out and scout....just as much as I do if not more....and they are as adept in the woods as any hunters I know...and usually end up with one if not more deer in the freezer.
This last minute preparation is nothing new...it has gone on as long as I can remember....and probably will continue to do so....it is not the equipment, it is the person....
Next time you attend a trad shoot....watch the shooting....start watching the "missed" threads that will start....
Perhaps we should be more concerned with the problems within our own circle before we start pointing fingers at others.....
Lee
QuoteOriginally posted by Biggie Hoffman:
QuoteOriginally posted by SteveB:
In the coming months we will see a slew of "missed (1,2,3+)" and "missed again" threads by trad hunters they shoot year round. Overwhelmingly they are told to keep shooting - it will happen - it's all part of it. Anyone who practices a lot and still accept numerous misses/wounds is no different then one who puts in less time for similar results - and the missed/wounded animals can't tell the difference. How much someone practices with their choice of equipment is little indication of their ethics - results are.
Thanks Steve, you just saved me from typing that.
I know a lot of guys who "practice" everyday who can't hit a pie plate @ 15 yards. Where are their ethics? [/b]
Yeah, I'm not too fond of the "I missed again" or "do you think this deer will recover" crowd. I have missed deer, and I have wounded deer. Nothing bothers me more. I am committed to NOT having that ever happen again.
Joe Skipp started a great thread, reminding us to keep practicing during the season. Awesome advice. The pic attached is a knot hole I shot at probably 200 times last week. It was on a berm where we parked the truck. I shot...I shot...every yardage possible....10 yards to 40 yards. The significance of this picture is that it was about a 40 yard shot.
(http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h227/rnorris/IMG_0124.jpg)
So I can shoot game animals at ths distance? Not a chance. I haven't shot at a deer further than 12-15 yards in a looooong time. So those are my ethics....practice, a lot. And only take slam dunk shots. Foam doesn't equal flesh.
I haven't bothered shooting my .22 since it was sighted in. Not unless I catch a house cat slipping through my place.
Ethics?
One word. Ozonics.
Look it up. This is where ethics has gone. There are no ethics in the bigger population. They've all been trained by tv to win at any cost and to do it the easy way. No hard work.
Wow I shoot every day, weather permitting, right thru the hunting season! I hunt from ground blinds so I spend a lot more time shooting from my blind postion to duplicate my hunting shot! Plus I small game hunt and stump a lot in the fall! I also shoot my longbow with my hunting clothes that I am going to wear during the season to get used the that too!
Almost all of my friends hunt with compounds.They'll all very ethical hunters and VERY good shots.Target and 3d shooting with them actually helps me alot. I can pick up my buddy's compound and shoot 6" groups at 30 yards.
In my opinion they are much easier to get good with than trad bows. I wouldn't have to practice anywhere near as much with one as I do with my longbow to feel comfortable to take it hunting.It doesn't matter what equipment you use to hunt with,each group has it's share of idiots.
I really hate when "trad" guys bash all the "wheelie bow,Training wheel,etc shooters". I have a couple friends that tried out recurves and just couldn't get the hang of them. They didn't feel they could shoot them good enough(after ALOT of practice) to hunt with,so they went back to compounds. I have alot more respect for them than a few trad guys I've seen at 3d shoots. Horrible shooting,missing very close shots,then saying "put hair on in it and I'll kill it in the woods everytime" Yeah,OK. You can't hit a piece of foam at 12 yards,but you'll do fine on a deer??? The equipment doesn't make you an A$$H*!e,you do that yourself.
I just sat through a hunter safety course with my son. The instructor stated that 10% of the US population are hunters, 10% are anti hunting and think it should be out lawed. The 80% in between are neutral on the subject and we should present ourselves in such a way that the 80% agree that our 10% should still be allowed to continue to hunt.
It doesn't matter what method of hunting one enjoys, if they are hunting, they are in our 10%. They are on our side. We should view and treat them like family.
I know plenty of compound hunters and fire arms only hunters who are totally committed to their weapon of choice and are very proficient.
Let us do something about the log in our own eye before commenting on the speck in someone else's eye.
Modern equipment makes shooting easier, precisely so that less practice is required. That's the whole point. I shoot my rifle once a year prior to deer season, but I can damn sure put a deer down at 100 yds with one shot. Compounds are the same way. They've all but eliminated human error. I know a few trad hunters that switched back to wheels because they didn't have the time to devote to the practice required to become and remain proficient with a stick bow. I love trad hunting, but I'm not going to pretend I'm more ethical than anyone else because I choose to make hunting a lot harder than it has to be.
I think that ther is also a contingent of people who do not even consider themselves bowhunters....but hunt with a bow during archery season because it gives them a month more time after the deer. I hang out in the local archery shop a lot and every September I watch guys come in who have not touched their bows since last season. There are quite a few who really have no business being in the woods with a bow in their hands....as demonstrated by their ability...or lack thereof.
As stated above, I shoot everyday because I want to be a good and prepard as I can and because it is FUN!!!!
Bisch
I am not bashing anyone or there choice of equipment. This will be my first season using traditional equipment and I expect it will be a tough season but that is what I like. I will use a flintlock or percussion muzzleloader this season as well on a hand full of days because like traditional archery it takes lots of practice to be proficient at it. Believe me carrying a 54cal flintlock thru mountain laurel straight up a ridge sporting a 36" barrel and constantly making sure the pan is properly primed (kinda have to use the gun as a walking stick in some areas) is hard work (and it weighs 11 lbs), but it adds to the challenge of the hunt. But I am an archer at heart I have always been intrigued by all forms of archery but I just happen to find my "love" for archery with my first traditional bow. I sold off all my wheelie's but I have a gun safe full of guns as well :dunno: I wouldn't dare knock anyone for there choice of equipment, I just think it takes a different kind of person to stick with practice it takes with traditional archery. And I know guys that shoot there firearms and compounds year round as well but I also know several people who shoot for sh#$ and they won't shoot there bow or firearm until they see the first deer in the woods this year and that burns me a new one.
This subject always ruffles my feathers
There's always something to hunt.....whether it be deer, varmints or just those big ole' grass hoppers along the field edge or rotten stumps along the trails. I shoot every chance I can and Im always hunting with my bow because I simply love to do it. It's my method of choice and I am proficient. I am an archer. I dont even understand that language of taking the bow out to get it ready cuz it hasnt been shot since last season.....I dont comprehend. Im guessing its piss poor preparation though, Im on the right track aren't I?! :rolleyes:
It is up to the individual to know their own personal limitations and the limitations of their weapon. I put a deer down at 407 yards last year with my .308. My longest shot ever. I only shot the weapon five times total all year. 3 to ensure the sights were on and two at two seperate deer. Both clean kills. I wouldnt even attempt a shot at a deer past 20 yards with my longbow however. But Howard Hill or Fred Bear would and did.
I know guys that shoot year round and guys that shoot when the season opens,it's up to the individual to have the ethics to practice and know their limitations.
Interesting thread, we are all hunters. Take the weapon of your choice and shoot it well. Give fair chase, its the very least we can do for the game we pursue.
Pass me the PREPARATION-H
I definitely know some of those people. The guys I know that drag the bow out the week before the season, don't need to practice because their bow is still sighted in from last year. They usually hunt hard the first day, maybe two (from the seat of their 4 wheeler) then spend the rest of the time nursing hang overs.
I believe the guys that shoot (and scout) all year get the most back straps.. definitely are having the most fun.
Joe
My choosing of hunting game with a recurve bow straight out makes me a less ethical hunter and a lesser respector of the game I pursue. Here is the reason I say this is fact for me. I am 35 years old and I have not shot a compound bow for 15 years. But I will bet I can leave work now go to the nearest place that sales compounds, buy one, spend and hour putting on a rest, kisser button, tieing a release loop, etc, and in 30 minutes of shooting at 25 yards be able to hit a skoal can lid every shot. In 15 years of practice I can not hit a skoal can lid every shot at 25 yards, and I bet there isn't a person on trad gang that can either. To take it a bit further I can take a scoped rifle and circumcize a knat every shot at 25 yards. So if I was truely fully concerned about ethics and respect I would use my silvertip recurve for kindlin and burn the thing. Then I wouldn't hunt with nothing but a rifle and only shoot things in the eyeball where they never knew what happened.
Sometimes all of this ethics, respect stuff from the traditional community is what really sets off a chapping of my A$$. Just because we choose to shoot a more challenging piece of equipment some folks thinks it rises us to some level of elitism. So we shoot our bows all year long and then go out and miss a deer and then post about the experience and how much we liked the simplicity and conectivness we felt, even though we missed. Well every miss was alot closer closer to wounding an animal than it was ethically killin it.
I understand where the post was coming from and yes the weekend warriors I don't condemn them but I do feel sorry for them because there is so much that they are missing. They don't know what they are missing by not being in the woods, practicing with their equipment, connecting with the critters, creating heritage, living their primal dreams. because they miss all of this i feel for them. Are they non-ethical and disrepectful, probably in general more so than the person who can be considered a hunter, no matter what their equipment choice.
I accept the choice that I made to hunt with what I hunt with. I know that I cannot "kill" as proficient with a recurve bow as well as I could with a compound bow. I have heard folks say that I just cant shoot a compund as accuratley as I can my recurve. I think to myself how in the heck is this possible, you must be severly toxophilte challenged.
I hunt with a recurve bow simply for the personal challenge. Sure I appreciate and respect the history, the romance, etc. But when I put a broadhead through vitals of a critter I thank GOD for providing me the critter to pursue and for giving me the ability to kill it. I am proud of myself for killin it, and I feel rewarded for the hard work and determination that it takes to get to that moment. It has happened alot in the last 15 years, not 2 or three times, not 40 times, but alot. Also over the 15 years there have been some misses and woundings. At those times I was pissed off and questioned my respect and ethics that I just displayed.
QuoteOriginally posted by Slasher:
There are hunters...
there are slob hunters....
Then there are guys who go and hunt...
I know wheelie guys that fit all three...
I know gun hunters who fit all three...
Very few slob hunting trad hunters because the price of admission usually discourages most of the lazy ones from even trying...
But we all have our few....
I agree!
QuoteOriginally posted by tuscarawasbowman:
QuoteOriginally posted by Biggie Hoffman:
QuoteOriginally posted by SteveB:
In the coming months we will see a slew of "missed (1,2,3+)" and "missed again" threads by trad hunters they shoot year round. Overwhelmingly they are told to keep shooting - it will happen - it's all part of it. Anyone who practices a lot and still accept numerous misses/wounds is no different then one who puts in less time for similar results - and the missed/wounded animals can't tell the difference. How much someone practices with their choice of equipment is little indication of their ethics - results are.
Thanks Steve, you just saved me from typing that.
I know a lot of guys who "practice" everyday who can't hit a pie plate @ 15 yards. Where are their ethics? [/b]
THIS :thumbsup: [/b]
Ditto.
I see it every year.
Hardly anybody at the range until Labor Day.
Then the two weeks leading up to the season bowhunters show up and make sure their equipment is still working and shoot a few shots practice. Next stop is deer season.
My future son-in-law is one of these folks. He comes over in late August and sights his bow in with a few shots on my 3-D targets. He shoots really well and in just a few minutes he is more accurate than I am even though I shoot daily almost the entire year.
He kills a couple deer each year and is happy as a clam. I have offered to set him up with traditional gear and he has no interest.
I am constantly reminded that my values as a bowhunter are not the same as the values of the next bowhunter. And in the end being of the "big tent" philosophy, I am fine with that.
When I shot a compound,after you got your set-up dialed in that was that. I would only get it out proir to the opener to shoot a dozen arrows or so thru it,check it all over well,and that was it. They are a gun in my eyes. Very little challenge,and very proficient at consistant shooting. If you LOVE the sport of archery,and love a never ending challenge with it. You MUST shoot traditional. I feel alot of compound shooters honestly don't know what they are missing. rat'
If they can't hit at 15 but only shoot to 10, right there are their ethics.
How about another point of view. . . Yes, they are easier. . . way easier, which is in large part why the argument starts every year and has since the compound came out. Once you buy the thing and someone sets it up, you can drag it out once a year, kill your deer at 50 - 75 yards (just like on TV) then they get to scream something (like. . I put the smackdown on it), wave their fists in the air and go back to watching the game.
There is a simple fact in our society. A large majority now feel that they should achieve something with little or no cost, be it in terms of practice, study, time-in etc. It is thier destiny and it is owed to them. That is the way it is nowadays, in work and in play.
Do I like it. . . no. . . do I matter to the big picture. . . bigger no.
For some of us, this is a way of life. . not just in choosing what bow we use, but how we act, how we live, how we view life.
Unfortunately we are dwindling.
ChuckC
I see it every year.
Hardly anybody at the range until Labor Day.
Then the two weeks leading up to the season bowhunters show up and make sure their equipment is still working and shoot a few shots practice. Next stop is deer season.
My future son-in-law is one of these folks. He comes over in late August and sights his bow in with a few shots on my 3-D targets. He shoots really well and in just a few minutes he is more accurate than I am even though I shoot daily almost the entire year.
He kills a couple deer each year and is happy as a clam. I have offered to set him up with traditional gear and he has no interest.
I am constantly reminded that my values as a bowhunter are not the same as the values of the next bowhunter. And in the end being of the "big tent" philosophy, I am fine with that.
I just shot my first real practice yesterday. Thanks to a cortisone shot I finally was able to receive on Monday. Not because of laziness but rather a bone spur. I am now able to for the first time in several months draw my bow. I shot again today and my shooting is not at the level it normally is at this time of year. I am however consistently making kill shots over and over at 15 yards or less. 90% of my shots are taken in this range so I still plan on being in the woods when the season opens on Monday. Ethics have nothing to do with how much practice you've had, it's about knowing what you can do and having the discipline to limit yourself to those shots.
With just over 7 billion people in the world its hard to find time to worry about what they are all doing.
Rob
HMMMMMM,
Why would the rest of the hunting world lable trad bowhunters ELITESTS?
Maybe threads like this?????????
Some people are naturally better at some things than others. Math, chess, painting, even archery! After 45 years of shooting I don't have to shoot everyday to be spot on. I can go months without shooting my recurve and be back into it in a short afternoon. I have the punched tags to prove it.
Others, apparently quite a few of them on this forum require daily practice. That's a problem. Maybe you shouldn't even be out in the woods with a stick bow? This isn't all that hard to perfect. Proper form, fitted gear, and a real understanding of what is going on. It shouldn't takes weeks upon weeks to get back into it after a few months hiatus. If it does maybe that wheel bow or crossgun is a better choice?
It comes in all walks of life these days.
It is unfair, and very inaccurate to place those labels on any single entity. The slobs, and nare do wells are among us all. Even among the ranks of our beloved stickbow shooters.
We are reaping what we have sewn for the last 50 years of instant gratification, and allowing our children to live lives laced in fantasy.
It can be changed, but people are going to have to step up, speak up, and be willing to take it on the chin, and stand their ground while being ridiculed for it. Even then it will take a while.
Pat
Lots of compound bashing and that's a no no! :readit: