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Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: Archie on September 15, 2012, 08:30:00 PM

Title: So THAT'S why chisel tips are better...
Post by: Archie on September 15, 2012, 08:30:00 PM
After reading another post here of somebody shooting through a telephone book, I thought I'd do something useful with one of my old (softcover) college textbooks...

  (http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc248/romangrayjr/photobucket-27102-1347754874460.jpg)

  (http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc248/romangrayjr/photobucket-28075-1347753310001.jpg)

This is a much heavier book than a phone book, and I was shooting with a 48# at 31" (I pull 30.5") longbow shooting about 700 grain arrows.  The Wensel Woodsmans are 125-grain glue ons, over inserts, so tips are 175 grains overall.

I backed up and shot it at 40 yards, and ended up hitting close to the spine of the book.  And look what happened!  

  (http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc248/romangrayjr/photobucket-22324-1347755024350.jpg)

This week I am planning on getting my broadheads sharp for hunting season anyway, but now I have extra motivation for taking off those needle points.
Title: Re: So THAT'S why chisel tips are better...
Post by: Duker on September 15, 2012, 08:57:00 PM
Great pics  :thumbsup:  THANKS  :archer2:
Title: Re: So THAT'S why chisel tips are better...
Post by: JamesKerr on September 15, 2012, 08:59:00 PM
Yep a chisel or tanto tip works better when something hard is hit. I am suprised that tip bent that much though from just hitting a book.
Title: Re: So THAT'S why chisel tips are better...
Post by: skychief on September 15, 2012, 09:00:00 PM
Thanks for reporting this technical information!  :D
Title: Re: So THAT'S why chisel tips are better...
Post by: Rob W. on September 15, 2012, 09:03:00 PM
I found that out the hard way when I started out. Curled a few on bone that first season.

You guys are making me want to put a VPA through something!  :D
Title: Re: So THAT'S why chisel tips are better...
Post by: Archie on September 15, 2012, 09:10:00 PM
Well, Rob, with my track record, that book may be the only thing I shoot all season!

By the way, my book is only about an inch thick, much thinner than the phone book in the other active book-whacker thread.
Title: Re: So THAT'S why chisel tips are better...
Post by: WidowEater on September 15, 2012, 10:31:00 PM
A trick that is advocated by a few who know Woodsmans well is to sharpen a new point onto them at a much steeper angle.

Kind of like putting a secondary bevel on your broadhead edge but only on the point.  It is done to attempt to prevent the tip from curling like you experienced here.

Was your head modified this way by chance?  I have never seen any after shots of the modified point Woodsmans so I really dont know if that trick works or not.
Title: Re: So THAT'S why chisel tips are better...
Post by: Archie on September 15, 2012, 10:36:00 PM
Mine were absolutely stock at the time of shooting today, just as out of the package, not even sharpened yet.  I'm planning on doing the same thing you're talking about, Troy.  I think that the long skinny shape stretches out the tip all the more on these Woodsmans, putting more leverage against a thinner tip.
Title: Re: So THAT'S why chisel tips are better...
Post by: Stumpkiller on September 15, 2012, 10:46:00 PM
Is 45# enough to hunt a Webster's Dictionary?

But seriously, I lop off all the tips to a flat point (not chisel - I'm still a double-bevel dinosaur).  Years of stump shooting with my hunting broadheads taught me the same thing you learned from a book.  (Pun intended).  Also a good way to decide on a tough and easily resharpened broadhead.
Title: Re: So THAT'S why chisel tips are better...
Post by: WidowEater on September 15, 2012, 10:48:00 PM
Ive heard it called putting a pyramid on the point.

I did a search on Woodsmans on here and from what I can tell pyramiding the point does in fact work very well.  It would be interesting to see the results of shooting a book with the modified head or a stubborn offside shoulder on a game animal.
Title: Re: So THAT'S why chisel tips are better...
Post by: BUCKY on September 15, 2012, 11:12:00 PM
I wonder how a thunderhead style broadhead would do.
Title: Re: So THAT'S why chisel tips are better...
Post by: on September 15, 2012, 11:16:00 PM
Hey, Rman, I think I recognize that arrow! I hope they are shooting well for you.

Bisch
Title: Re: So THAT'S why chisel tips are better...
Post by: Archie on September 15, 2012, 11:28:00 PM
Hiya, Bisch!  The arrows I got from you are working great.  This experiment was with my lighter bow and setup, shooting 2117s.  I plan on going out and firing a couple of those 2419s out of my 69#er either tonight or tomorrow, at the same book.  If it looks interesting, I'll post some pics of that too.
Title: Re: So THAT'S why chisel tips are better...
Post by: Kamm1004 on September 16, 2012, 12:09:00 AM
I'm not surprised at all. Paper is a tough target! You should watch the episode of Mythbusters where they bulletproof a car by shoving phonebooks in the door panel. It stopped alot of heavy loads. I think only a deer slug and a 308 punctured a phonebook that was only 3in think. It stopped all the other bullets dead in their tracks. Granted broadheads are different especially tanto tips or chisel tips but still...
Title: Re: So THAT'S why chisel tips are better...
Post by: Rob W. on September 16, 2012, 10:19:00 AM
I try to re-create the tip that comes on VPA's with my older heads. I clip the tip and use a dremel with a stone. Don't curl, penetrate well, and put plenty of blood on the ground.

(http://i1225.photobucket.com/albums/ee391/rjwalton8/P1000918.jpg)
Title: Re: So THAT'S why chisel tips are better...
Post by: Terry Green on September 16, 2012, 06:59:00 PM
I've had no problems with the ones I've pyramided.....it don't take much to make the tips stronger.
Title: Re: So THAT'S why chisel tips are better...
Post by: D on September 16, 2012, 10:09:00 PM
Glad I seen this.  I am shooting snuffers and have been sharpening them up and have a serious needle point on them.  Hum guess I'll have to fix that.
Title: Re: So THAT'S why chisel tips are better...
Post by: JamesKerr on September 16, 2012, 10:56:00 PM
Overspined, I don't get your point no one here has said anything about poor shot placement.
Title: Re: So THAT'S why chisel tips are better...
Post by: 30coupe on September 17, 2012, 12:09:00 AM
Just make sure whatever you use it is good and sharp. I've shot deer with both Snuffers and Woodsman with the needle point with no issues. Deer ribs are easy to shoot through and don't bend the tips. If you hit shoulder bones bending the tip is the least of your problems. I do pyramid the points now though when I use three blades. I mostly shoot Zwickey Deltas though.

I did get great blood trails with the three blades though, so I'm not knocking them.
Title: Re: So THAT'S why chisel tips are better...
Post by: Scattergun2570 on September 17, 2012, 12:40:00 AM
It`s a good thing deer are not made of thick paper.
Title: Re: So THAT'S why chisel tips are better...
Post by: 30coupe on September 17, 2012, 02:37:00 AM
QuoteOriginally posted by Scattergun2570:
It`s a good thing deer are not made of thick paper.
:clapper:
Title: Re: So THAT'S why chisel tips are better...
Post by: Archie on September 17, 2012, 07:42:00 AM
QuoteOriginally posted by Scattergun2570:
It`s a good thing deer are not made of thick paper.
I hear guys talking about paper tuning...  so I was just giving it a try...     :knothead:
Title: Re: So THAT'S why chisel tips are better...
Post by: Terry Green on September 17, 2012, 09:11:00 AM
I do mine like Rob's pic.....like I said, it doesn't take much as you still want a sharp point on your Bhead.


(http://www.tradgang.com/upload/terry/IMG_3121.JPG)
Title: Re: So THAT'S why chisel tips are better...
Post by: Archie on September 17, 2012, 09:49:00 AM
Terry, I see you took the back corners off of the blades, too.  Any specific reason why?
Title: Re: So THAT'S why chisel tips are better...
Post by: JamesKerr on September 17, 2012, 10:04:00 AM
Archie I believe that picture is of a head Terry modified for bunnies. He took the back corners off to make the heads easier to pull out of a back quiver.
Title: Re: So THAT'S why chisel tips are better...
Post by: AWPForester on September 17, 2012, 12:00:00 PM
D, there is a huge difference in the points on a snuffer and woodsman.  I have shot snuffers into 4 by 4's, hickory trees, and a bunch of other things, mostly on purpose 8>), to try and see if I could bend them, and have yet to curl a tip.  If I were shoooting the Woodsman broadheads I would definately tanto tip it.  God Bless
Title: Re: So THAT'S why chisel tips are better...
Post by: Terry Green on September 17, 2012, 12:09:00 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by Archie:
Terry, I see you took the back corners off of the blades, too.  Any specific reason why?
Oh....I should have stated...those are my small gamers.....and angling off those corners make them come out of a back quiver very easy as compared to them being stock. If left stock, they drag pretty hard and also catch on any 'lip' at the top of the quiver.

I have been on a few hunts where we hunt hogs and javies AND bunnies....and I put my real Bheads in my bow quiver and my small game heads in my back quiver....that way I don't get my bheads for the larger animals mixed up....once the big critters are spotted, I drop the back quiver all together for the stalk.


  (http://www.tradgang.com/upload/terry/bern3.jpg)
Title: Re: So THAT'S why chisel tips are better...
Post by: JimB on September 17, 2012, 02:46:00 PM
I once shot an antelope using a 2 blade head with the factory,needle tip and the tip curled,drastically affecting penetration.I was very lucky to be able to stalk within range and get a second arrow in him.That was a hard lesson and I have never hunted with a tip like that again.

We used to clip the points off Bear Razorheads but I didn't like it because you couldn't spin the arrow to check alignment.I always like to check alignment after shooting any broadhead arrow.For that reason,I had stopped clipping them and it caused a situation with that antelope.A big mistake on my part and I want no repeats of that.

Anyway,these days I would use a tanto tip on any 2 or 4 blade and if I ever switch to 3 blades,I'm sure I would file a small pyramid,just to be safe.

I like to use a tip alignment jig to get my broadhead perfectly aligned before I do any tip filing.Then after filing on the tip,I check it again on the jig to make sure I didn't file it off center.

A curled tip not only can drastically affect arrow penetration,it can steer it off course.Either one of those things can cause serious issues and it is easily prevented.
Title: Re: So THAT'S why chisel tips are better...
Post by: trick00 on September 17, 2012, 03:14:00 PM
Great demo/info guys! I have seen this before on my practice woodsman broadheads but thought I had hit a rock or something similar. Ive had my snuffers do it a little also.