I recently had to drop bow weight. My set up is a 47# ACS CX 3 pc longbow. Arrow, Easton Axis, Razorcap 3 blade 200gr broadhead, 100gr insert, total arrow weight 540gr, foc 27%, speed 160fps. Arrow tuned very well really happy with results.
Good to go? What I was shooting just pushed the arrow a bit faster hoping this is the right set up for the season. Mostly deer, making a trip to KS in Nov. Please let me know your thoughts.
Thanks
ALDO
Sounds like a winner
I imagine you'd be fine with that setup. :)
Sounds like a great setup. Very similar to mine.
Speed is like getting hit by a Porshe at 70mph you will just bounce of and go flying through the air. Getting hit by a mack truck at 40mp and pieces of you will be flying all over the place. The heavy arrow at a slightly slower speed will pack a punch on impact- mass matters!JMHO
All of the speed, mass, weight, or whatever number pops out of your calculator, in the world means nothing if you can't put it where it belongs. How is your accuracy with your setup? Therein lies your answer.
QuoteOriginally posted by Jason R. Wesbrock:
All of the speed, mass, weight, or whatever number pops out of your calculator, in the world means nothing if you can't put it where it belongs. How is your accuracy with your setup? Therein lies your answer.
:thumbsup:
Jason summed it up nicely... with that said... you could actually lighten up your gpp a little if you decide you wanted a flatter trajectory... as it stands you're definitely good to go though.
you're good, make sure to post pics of your kills!
How could one have possibly harvested a deer with trad gear prior to the chronograph?
QuoteOriginally posted by Friend:
How could one have possibly harvested a deer with trad gear prior to the chronograph?
your good to go.......
Shot placement and a quite bow are a lot more important than speed. My hunting bow shoots 160fps.. I killed all kinds of critters with it..
I need to chronograph my set-up. ALDO,we are close. Those ACS bows really motivate an arrow.
I would think your deadly. I am very curious now to how many f.p.s. my set-up is. I do not think it is a deal breaker,but I am curious. Happy hunting,rat'
If you can hit the spot you will be a cold blooded killer.LOL
Speed doesn't matter. Now go kill something.
Ahem.
"Speed doesn't matter."
Doe that make you feel better? Because that's the main thing: confidence in your setup. You could be pushing a 3000 grain arrow at 400 fps out of a ballista, and if you weren't happy with the way the thing shot, I'd say leave it at home.
Shoot it, have fun, and put it in the boiler room!
Speed is like getting hit by a Porshe at 70mph you will just bounce of and go flying through the air. Getting hit by a mack truck at 40mp and pieces of you will be flying all over the place.
I wouldn't want to get hit by either one. LOL
Aldo,
You have a great set up! You have over .38 of slug force, not including your FOC wich is a force multiplier. You have enough zip ... and then some. If you are confident in your shooting and the bow is quiet, put your arrow in the zone and the criters will die quickly. Absolutely nothing to worry about.
:archer:
Bob.
There use to be billboards around our town that read "Speed Kills".
By popular opinion it seems the only thing left is the hunt and the fun!! :thumbsup:
Good set up
Aldo, If you can put the arrow where it should be, you should not have a problem. I know as a fact 43# @ same speed will do it every time.
Accuracy is more important, but slow is no good if you undershoot. :archer:
I hit better with a faster recurve than a slower recurve or longbow, but another archer might consider all of my bows slow. :dunno:
You are good to go.... pick a spot and fire up the BBQ
Thanks everyone, this is the first 3 pc longbow I have shot had to drop weight due to elbow issue but I have the bow quiet and had a real good shooting session yesterday with it. I will be in the tree this weekend here in NJ. I actually feel better with a little lighter weight.
Hunt Hard!
ALDO
Last year I was shooting 43 pounds with a 62" Super Shrew with around a 575 grain arrow arrow with great success. My guess I was only shooting around 150 fps and had a couple pass throughs. Sharp heads and true flight attribute to more penetration!
J. Westbrock nailed it.
If it matters, I know a young lady who has killed a few deer with a recurve, pulling less than 25#, with about a 25" draw, and arrows around 400 grains.
We have no idea what her K.E., momentum, slug feet, etc. etc. etc. are. Deer didn't care either. She put the arrow in the right spot, deer died, end of story. One of the shots was 26 paces (approx. 26 yds). Deer went about 65 yds.--a large doe.
Good arrow flight, sharp broadhead, and shot placement are essential. Other than that, if your set-up is legal, it will do the job.
Almost forgot...don't know how many fps she was getting either, but pulling about 25" and shooting around 18 gpp, I feel safe saying she wasn't burning the fletchings off.
to me I wont go over heavy on arrows. I like having a flat shooting bow with a decent weight arrow. It doesnt take much to kill deer. so the 50# bows shooting a arrow almost 500gr or more is enough for me. heck a guy on another forum is using a 47# bow 360gr arrows and 1.5" rage 40ke expandable broadheads and he take out a few nice doe last season.
:clapper: What LBR said.
I think a happy medium (if you can get there)is to shoot the heaviest arrow you can and still stay around 155-165 fps (always at least 10 gpp). This will get the job done and is a good balance (I think) for momentum and trajectory. No real science behind my thought, just feels right FOR ME.
This is assuming you can get there with the poundage and length you draw. If I had to choose between heavy and fast, I'd choose heavy. The lighter the bow, the more I would rely on heavy arrows.
After that worry only about your COC blade being SHARP and hitting where you aim!
A sharp broad head and an accurate shot is all you need
QuoteOriginally posted by Jason R. Wesbrock:
All of the speed, mass, weight, or whatever number pops out of your calculator, in the world means nothing if you can't put it where it belongs. How is your accuracy with your setup? Therein lies your answer.
Amen,brother!
The majority of the deer I have killed with traditional bows were with a bow that shot 150 fps. The only reason I know that number is because I was at my local archery shop one day with it and a guy asked well how fast does it shoot. Speed nor arrow weight make a difference if you're not accurate with it though.
You have a momentum above 0.38 and thats more than enough for deer and mostly any game in the Northern hemisphere!
Just use sharp bh's in the business end and shoot straight :archer2:
if you are comfortable with the trajectory and are not shooting more than 20 yards. you'll be fine.
Speed matters a lot to some folks, and not at all to others.... i like the flat shooting trajectory of 190+ fps personally. That and i can shoot a lighter weight bow with more hitting power....
if you want I'll tell you that "Speed doesn't matter" There...You feel better now?....
but..... it does matter to a lot of hunters, and a whole lot of 3D competitors..... Kirk
The ideal would be a very heavy arrow at a very high speed. Unfortunately, it is difficult to have both. My preference would be reasonable speed with as heavy an arrow as will shoot accurately out of the bow. Most emphasis would be on arrow mass over speed (still assuming the accuracy is there). Yes, speed sorta matters... but not a hell of a lot!
If your broadhead is sharp and you can hit the mark, you are good to go.
The chronograph is the single worst piece of equipment that has ever been invented in regards to archery IMO. I've never chrono'd any of my bows, either compound when I was shooting them or recurves now, because I don't want to get hung up on trying for an extra 5 fps.
I know a guy who bought a new compound a few years back rated at around 320-325fps. He shot 70#, but only shot a 26" draw. He tried a lot of different arrow setups, but the fastest he could get it to shoot was around 295. He didn't even bow hunt that season and sold the bow the next year because he honestly believed he couldn't kill a deer with less than 300fps. By the way, he spent over $1200 on the rig. I've heard of guys doing the same thing with recurves trying to get to 190.
Wait a minute....
You mean, if I use both a sharp broadhead AND accurate shot placement, Ill be able to kill an animal???
Somebody better be writing this down....we may be on to a traditional archery breakthru here!
Speed doesn't matter? Ofcourse it does or we would still be throwing sticks instead of shooting them. The question is not does speed matter but why does speed matter and how much does it matter to me?
BTW. It seems that setup is fairly slow for the bow you have unless you short draw it. I would think it would be in the 170s somewhere. However if you are happy with the setup it certainly will kill animals if you place the shots properly.
God bless you all, Steve
Aldo's got a 26" draw length if I remember correctly... so the speed he's getting with 11.5gpp seems pretty good for a lighter poundage bow.
ALDO I think your good with that. The drop in weight may make you more accurate. JMO. Mike.
Bow stability and a straight flying arrow trumps everything else, IMO, as long as the broadhead is razor sharp. However, for myself, a flat shooting bow is a bonus. Trajectory and arrow weight are beneficial for me. I like my arrow weight in the head end like you so penetration is maximized. Have a good season and post pics.
I agree with Sixby.
Speed isn't the end all be all of it, but it sure don't hurt to have as much of it as you can get as long as you don't go to the extreme light side in weight of your arrow to get the speed.
Your rig will work.
I posted this on the phone book thread. Not a definitive study but seemed consistent to me. For me it's the speed weight combo that is important. I like a fast bow so I can shoot an arrow that matches my mental computer that will produce sufficient penetration. If I can get that at a lower draw weight then I shoot more accurately which produces clean kills.
Well here's what I came up with using 2 very different arrow weights. Both arrows fly true out of my bow. I want to do this with a better medium say 1/4" mds with a foot of foam behind it. This should give greater penetration which would give better numbers to work with. As it is it looks to me that penetration follows momentum pretty close. The 430 gr arrow is no slouch though. Just happens that the 708 gr @ 160 matches my mental computer.
- Weight 708 gr 160 fps 40.26 KE .503 Mo
Weight 430 gr 204 fps 39.75 KE .390 MO
- KE increase 708 vs 430 = 1.27%
MO increase 708 vs 430 = 22.56%
Phone book = 1 3/8"
- 708 gr = 4.0625" penetration = 300%
430 gr = 3.125" penetration = 227.3%
Penetration 708 vs 430 = 23.08% increase
You want to know if speed matters
Here's a 40# cedar self bow with Magnus broad head and its harvest. Any questions?
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v107/doublelung/UltimateExperience.jpg)
Nice pic Sidebuster!
Here's another thought. Watch the old Ben Pearson, Fred Bear, Bill Negley, Howard Hill, etc. etc. etc. movies.
Some of them (Negley and Hill) shot very heavy weight bows, but none of them were getting blistering speeds. I don't recall ANY of them mentioning how fast their arrows travelled. They seemed to do o.k. killing stuff and some of them were pretty good at shooting at targets too.
Back to the question, does speed matter? If you are asking for opinion, obviously it does to some folks. Admit it or not, "speed" is a big selling point, both on this side of the sport and the other too. The guys in Primitive Archer would probably argue that dead is dead, no matter how fast the arrow was going when it went through the vitals.
Does speed kill? Not by itself, and it isn't required in extreme portions to do the job.
Do some folks shoot better with a faster bow? I guess. I've shot some of my best ever 3-D scores, including wins at the Howard Hill and TN Classic, with selfbows. I've shot much higher scores with selfbows than some other folks did with much, much faster laminated bows. I've shot two classes and had my selfbow score be better than my other score. So, just like speed alone doesn't kill, speed alone isn't accurate, and isn't required in extreme amounts to be accurate. The young lady I mentioned before couldn't have been getting 150 fps--she has a very short draw and was shooting about 18 gpp--but she cleanly killed deer, beyond 20 yds.
Bottom line, before the discussion got off track, is your set-up will be fine for deer as long as you do your part with tuning, sharpening, and accuracy.
Enjoy yourself and go kill a nice one!
Chad
LBR X2
I remember about 1980 when I was shooting 60lbs to get that kind of speed with that weight of arrows. That was considered a good elk bow. Bow design and materials have improved some.
One particular scene from "The Legendary Hunts of Ben Pearson" comes to mind--he was stringing his bow before the pheasant hunt. Heavy wood arrows, short draw length, long bow length, string was so fat it looked like a clothes line, big feathers on his arrows...
It looked like you could out-run his arrows when they were shot...and he was shooting pheasants out of the air consistently. On that same video he killed a javalina at approximately 160 yds with the same or a similar set-up.
Seems we keep trying to re-invent the wheel rather than spend more time learning to drive better.
THanks Sidebuster, no more questions! Yes I do have a 26" draw and just try to maximize my penetration. I feel confident with this set up, just need to prove it. Hopefully this afternoon.
Thanks to all,
ALDO
Have a good time out there Aldo! :thumbsup:
Speed doesn't matter !
Go get them!!!!!!!
Regards.
Bert.
QuoteOriginally posted by LBR:
Seems we keep trying to re-invent the wheel rather than spend more time learning to drive better.
X2
If you have a chance look up Bill Langer's video of his son shooting his first deer last year. I believe he was shooting around 38 pounds of draw at 24" and shooting a 2016 aluminum with outstanding success.