I need some more advice. Based on my other thread about poor accuracy with my broadheads it appears I might have to buy some new arrows at some time soon. When I got back into this I had the intention of ditching aluminum and carbon arrows and going to wood at some point. My question is with me still being fairly new and inexperienced to traditional tackle should I just jump in and go to wood shafts or should I stick to modern arrows until I gain more experience? I already fletch my own aluminum arrows. I was reading some of the tutorials here and it looks like all I would really need to buy was a tapering tool and I could just get one of those cheap plastic ones to keep the costs down and I could improvise some of the other tools needed. I saw a video somewhere with a guy who was hammering table spoons into trade points and hafting them onto his woodies. Things like that really appeal to me and I sure couldnt do that with aluminum arrows. I know the wood arrows will need more maintenance than aluminums. Should I just jump in with both feet and do it?
Thanks to all for your patience with a new guys endless questions.
Scott.
I think if you have the time to make wooden arrows and enjoy doing it go for it. Really good wood shafts are getting harder to come by it seems like every day. Most places where you can buy wood shafts will have them spined right but they are nowhere near being weight matched. There are quite a few guys on here much more knowlegable about wood shafts than I am. Welcome to the site!
Shoot what feels right to you. I have never shot anything but wood. Remember to have fun with it.
When you say weight matched are you saying individual shafts should be weighed and sorted like I would with bullets if I were reloading rounds for competition?
Scott.
Stick with what you know. I think wood arrows are for experts. Every time I try them, they humble me. I do not think beginners need the extra complexity a wood arrow brings. Carbon and aluminum make more sense to me and I am not a beginner :campfire:
Scott, woodies are great. Don't be afraid of using them.
Until, and unless you are into big tournament perfection, don't get TOO wrapped up in perfectly matched shafts (spine / weight). Get them close and shoot em.
I have also found that woodies fly best out of some of my bows.
Another trick, whether you bare shaft tune or not, get a decent spine match (to your bow) then use 5 or 5.5 inch fletch and you can shoot nearly any reasonable arrow, especially with field tips or narrower broadheads.
Have fun and shoot some arrows. Gain some experience before you get too into the perfection thing.
ChuckC
QuoteOriginally posted by Steve O:
Stick with what you know. I think wood arrows are for experts. Every time I try them, they humble me. I do not think beginners need the extra complexity a wood arrow brings. Carbon and aluminum make more sense to me and I am not a beginner :campfire:
X2
I started with wood and still shoot wood and some aluminum. Dont be afraid to use them but if you cringe at the sight of a broken arrow you might want to start out with something else.
Dont get me wrong i love wood arrows and love to build and hunt with woodies. Try them out and see what you think.
I love wood and it is all I shoot but I would not recommend it to a newbie-too overwhelming. Would not recommend reloading to a newbie either. Focus on shooting ability, form etc. When it is all under control and you are looking for more try some wood arrows and if you really fall in love-go for it!
Yes. We are talking wood arrows here, not rocket science...well I guess its sorta like rocket science. Really woodies aren't complicated.
That said, for me carbons are by far the cheapest arrows in the long run.
Wood arrows are neat. They are not as perfect as aluminum or carbon though. If you buy a dozen shafts, most likely 4 of them will be perfect and good for hunting, 4 will be ok and good for 3-D, and the other 4 will be good stumping arrows. All depends on what you want to get out of Archery. I number my arrows and take note of which ones fly the best, those are my hunting arrows. If I have one or two that just don't fly well, even after trying to straighten them, I brake them over my knee:)
If you can tune em shoot em, if you can't keep trying that's the only way to learn, and sooner or later you will get it.Lots of great advice on site, Good Luck and Happy Shooting!!!!
I like woodies a lot. Try to find a supplier who is willing to match a batch for you. My suplier handspines and weightmatches my shafts for me so they are all very equall and close to carbon.
I straighten them myself. I always check, before I go shooting, if they are all still straight.
When you have well matched, straight arrows, who are right for your bow, nothing equalls them!
I've shot both wood and aluminum arrows when I was starting out in trad bowhunting 48 years ago. I found an aluminum arrow was very easy to tune to a bow rather than a wood arrow.
To this day, I've always shot an aluminum arrow.
Turning out a matched set of woodies takes some know how and effort. Also maintaining them takes effort. They all warp some so must be kept straight. Buy a supply of reparrows while you are at it. You will need them.
they smell better than carbon.
You really dont need another variable in the equation when learnig. Find a carbon or aluminun that is spined correctly and get some instruction on tuning your bow and maybe a lesson on shooting and form. The lesson on shooting and form may just be the best investment you ever make!
I say jump in with both feet. Thats the only way you will know if they work for you. A fellow TG member gave me a dozen Sitka Spruce shafts. I love these arrows because I've learned to hand straighten them, put self nocks into them and add various field tips and broad heads. BTW, they shoot like darts.
Some here may disagree with me, but shoot what you want to shoot. I have bows that are cut to center that I shoot carbons from and I can get them to shoot with minimal fletching. But I also have bows not cut to center that when compared to center shot bows can be a nightmare to tune. Work hard on getting the best tune you can, but don't give up because you are not getting lasers out of every arrow. Slap some 5.5" bananas on there and get in the woods. I love wooden shafts, and like them specifically with particular bows. However, they tend to fly best with narrow broadheads and big fletching, which means they are not very forgiving and really hard to get to tune perfectly. I will never shoot aluminum again because I simply cannot find a reason to do so; I like wood and really old wood (carbon). My 2 cents.
Depends a lot on your free time, because there is a lot of other stuff to learn and master. I have not become good enough in other areas to take on wood arrows. I tried, but got frustrated because my time is very limited, and was first used for things like practicing and learning shooting, learning how to cut arrows, fletch arrows, sharpen broadheads, tune a bow . . . But it's something I look forward to doing one day.
Good luck.
Wood is cool, but stick with the aluminum or carbon as a beginner as some others have offered IMO.
Tradition hunting and shooting rocks, but take if from someone that only started shooting trad 6 or so years ago. Don't buy into the"how simple it is" crowd. There is a lot more complexity than some folks admit to. My theory is they have been shooting trad for so long that a lot of the complexity has become normal or simple through time and experience. That is great, but confounding to the new guys that are trying to learn.
I too started with wood, and now only shoot carbon as I don't want to screw around with arrows. I want to shoot and shoot. I work on form and go hunting...I have a great time.
Seriously, nothing wrong with wood either and I may do it later, I just would advocate eliminating some variables at the onset. Heck you can play and add more complexity as you go.
And I do agree have fun, but you will have more fun through success.
Every traditional archer should cut their teeth on wood arrows at some time. Most guys buy the bow, string, leather goods all made by someone else. You can buy arrows made by someone else too. If you buy a couple dozen wood shafts, stain em, seal em, put nocks, feathers and points on em...no matter how pretty they are or not...you made something and are contributing to yourself and the sport. You can do the same thing with tin or carbon shafts but it aint the same. I aint saying wood is the only way to go. I hunt with carbon arrows most of the time. But making wood arrows is just plain fun. You get to make em yours.
Still pretty new to archery. I like the woodies But I prefer to practice with aluminum because it is cheaper and if I ain't shooting right I can't blame the arrow!
In some cases wood arrows are much easier to predict for spine than carbons or aluminum for a beginner. It takes quite a bit of experience to tinker and tweak carbons to get them to fly for some bows and draw lengths. Woodies can be just as closely grained as anything, my last set only varied two grains for the entire dozen, I have never even had aluminum arrows get that close. Some bows will like to have the woods over spined and some like Hills will either be right on or slightly under for shorter draws, from the spine charts. Knowing what your bows is and your real draw weight and length could help you get more accurate pointers on which wood shafts to buy.
I am relatively new to traditional archery as well. I agreed with Heydeerman, jumped in both feet. Buy a dozen handmade arrows and have at it. I started out buying arrows now I am learning to build them. Like fly fishing you can tie your own flies or buy them. I know a very good arrowsmith if you need one.
It's all about what you want to get out of your Archery Journey. Yep, there are things that have to be learned about wood arrows, especially if you get into building your own. For some folks, it's right. For others, not so much. I've been shooting wood arrows all of my life, so I like to think that I know them pretty good. For me, wood arrows have a certain "life" to them that you'll never experiance with carbon or aluminum. It's another one of those wonderful things about Traditional archery, you can do what's right for you.
The other thing is, you'll never know unless you try. I'd hate to think that I missed out a possible, great experiance just because I didn't try it to see what I was missing!
And for the nay sayers, thank God that Aluminum and Carbon arrow shafts came along! I don't how anyone managed to kill anything with a funky old wood shaft! :bigsmyl:
LD
QuoteOriginally posted by Steve O:
Stick with what you know. I think wood arrows are for experts. Every time I try them, they humble me. I do not think beginners need the extra complexity a wood arrow brings. Carbon and aluminum make more sense to me and I am not a beginner :campfire:
A lot of good sense in that statement. I love wood arrows, but they are a challenge unto themselves....
I agree that we should shoot whatever hits the right spot on our quarry.
I started out with wood so have never considered there to be any greater learning curve with them than aluminum (I have never shot carbon). Just do the work necessary to tune up your equipment and go have fun. However, the "learning curve" with cedar sure smells good.
Sounds to me like you already might have an inklin' towards wood arrows. Get some stuff and slap 'em together, you'll love it!
Serious wood shaft/arrow providers can set you on the right path to a short testing period, which means more time to shoot!
Used to was wood arrows were the inexpensive way to go. I started with wood, briefly tried aluminum when I bought a compound in 1980 (some "pro" selected the dia. & wall size I needed). After two years I was disgusted that the aluminum arrows were ruined quickly when roving and went back to trad bows and wood arrows.
Now it's not the money savings it used to be, but it is still possible to turn out cheaper wood arrows.
Never tried carbon, and I have no idea how to order up an aluminum arrow now if I wanted to try. I consider aluminum and carbon much more difficult to grasp than wood.
Guys with one eyebrow and stone knives were making wood arrows before they knew how to write or make wheels. It ain't that hard.
If wood is what you want to shoot, then absolutely go for it. The sooner you start learning the sooner you will figure it out. Wood isn't some mysetrious substance that only a master can make work, just start with good shafts from Surewood/Braveheart. If you want some help with spine, shoot me a PM with your phone # and we'll figure it out.
Yes
I started out with wooden Bear arrows around forty years ago. Then went with aluminum when they were popular .And have been shooting wood again for the last 25yrs. So yes try them.
Wow, i can't believe all the responses on how hard it is to get wood arrows flying. To me wood arrows were always more forgiving to shoot and really not hard to get flying right. Ask another archer at a shootto try some of his woods to see which spine arrow flys best for you. Then get those spined shafts and try them out. You can always changed the point weight from 125gr down to 100gr or up to 160gr to tweak while tuning. might even have to cutthem down a little but by no means is it hard if you buy arrows close to what you need in spine.
I for one prefer wood and aluminum over carbon. I shoot wood for the additional weight,looks and noise reduction, and aluminum for cost, ease of building, and consistancy of flight. Tried carbons but never liked the challenges of weight, cost and problems with different types of glue. With that said, shoot what you like and can afford. :campfire:
Wow, some of you guys are really intimidated by wood. There really is no special skill in using wood arrows, other than straightening if they get bent. I do suggest you get better spine groups than the 6# variances commonly sold though. Drop a line to Tommy at rmsgear. They usually have shafting spined to the pound for about the same price as the standard groups.
A number of folks have spoken about the difficulty and maintenance issues with wood, but I just don't see it. They must be tuned to your bow like any arrow but are no more difficult than anything else. Maintenance has never been a problem, either sometimes a quick sight down thw shaft will show a bit of crookedness but a few flexes of the shaft usually puts things right again. I don't repair wood shafts, though. If one cracks I discard it, but replacing lost points, broken nocks, and damaged fletching is easy.I don't think it will be especially difficult for you. If somebody as unskilled as me can do well with wood, anybody can. After you break up a dozen or two, you will be an expert.Remember this, whether you go with wood or some other arrow material - Don't fall in love with your arrows, because they won't be around that long. That's just part of archery. Wood is fun, so jump right in..
I agree, Jump In With Both Feets!! :notworthy: I just Love to make my own arrows, and they are, in the long run, Cheaper to Replace!! You dont cry so hard when ya wreck a Woodie. :biglaugh: There is a Multitude of Dealers and Most of them, if not all will treat you Right!! Hint: If you are serious about staying with wood, buy a GOOD Taper Cutter! They are Invaluable!! I have used the Pencil Sharpener Types for Years, with no Complaints, Blades are cheap to Replace! Good Luck to You, and above All Have FUN!! :archer2:
I am going to give it a try. More my first batch I wont get fancy. I will just get some stain and polycrylic from the hardware store and one of those plastic taper tools. I already have a fletching jig and a few feathers. If they dont work out for me I guess there are still plenty of aluminum arrows floating around out there!
Scott.
Just remember to keep the eyes of the grain up
the first few dozen of shafts i started shooting was aluminum and then went to carbon, but now the last few dozens of shafts i have bought are wood. they just seem to suit me better, granted there not as fast, but they can shoot better than i can shoot them.
I got hooked on trad the other year, and jumped in both feet. Made my first set from a poplar board and varitas 3/8" dowel cutter. Then a pine set that flew great from my 50lb bamboo backed hickory bow, with my homemade flemish string. Just learned to keep the last one for memory sake. Making your own it really rewarding. Can sand, reduce shaft length, etc to match up pretty well. And just love the smell of sawdust.
Why not? I love wood arrows. The beauty of crested and stained wood is just like a beautiful bow. Combinations of feathers and paint is endless.
For a newb stay away from woodies until you have things down as in your form and how you shoot. Once you can recognize a poor arrow flight is due to a poor release (comes from using a balanced arrow-spine, weight, staright with the right FOC) then you can wander into the world of wood arrows. Otherwise it is a bit like fly fishing in the dark.
The poor release is not a slam against ANYONES shooting as we ALL have them to one degree or another at times. Some of us quite often :D
You would be fine with wood.
There are a few things to remember with wood:
1. Wood arrows have more "history"
2. You will likely break more arrows, but it smells good when you do break cedar!
3. Often, wood arrows will be heavier and quiet down a bow.
4. You will get more "fliers". Mark the ones that do and get rid of them or use as flu flu's.
5. You will need to straighten them from time to time.
6. They sure can be dipped and painted up fancy!
7. You will need some different tools, but not unreasonable.
All that being said, I shoot carbons. Love wood, but shoot carbon arrows....
God bless,
Charlie
QuoteOriginally posted by wapiti:
For a newb stay away from woodies until you have things down as in your form and how you shoot. Once you can recognize a poor arrow flight is due to a poor release (comes from using a balanced arrow-spine, weight, staright with the right FOC) then you can wander into the world of wood arrows. Otherwise it is a bit like fly fishing in the dark.
The poor release is not a slam against ANYONES shooting as we ALL have them to one degree or another at times. Some of us quite often :D
I completely disagree. If you like wood, shoot it. Wood is not so inconsistent that a newb should avoid it. It's supposed to be fun, and if wood is fun for you, then go for it.
I disagree with Steve O....wood is no different than others if you take the time to shoot them....they dont fly or react like carbon or aluminum. I have shot woodies forever....dabbled in the others...and if I was shooting poorly it was me..not the arrows fault.
if you want to shoot woodies then get some spined properly for your setup...or slightly stiffer than needed. Then shoot your bow and arrows until you are grouping...stop trying to do everything.
concentrate on form...dont worry about where you are hitting...get close...5 yards away...or less. Concentrate on form...bow arm, anchor point, focus on the spot, back tension, release, follow through...draw arrow and do it again...slow...methodical...with purpose.
I am re-reading Toxicated by Fred Anderson and this morning while reading my chapter per morning in the throne room... :) A story by fella with first name of Cassius that was pilot, shot down in WWII, held prisoner, escaped, settled in Oregon and got into making yew longbows and arrows for others and hunting.
Anyhow, this fella he knew named Stanley Spencer was the World Champion Target Archery for 1926 if I remember right....or maybe US Champion. To the point after talking about why the golden era of archery started in depression and for the 20 years following it was about hard work and satisfaction of working hard and gettings it reward>
Mr. Spencer was a proponent of athletics and physical training to become successful and NOT TECHNOLOGY. He said, "Why, oh why, do they fill up so much space writing about spine of arrows and just how to bend them around a bow, instead of making a rigid arrow and learning how to shoot it?"
This was the best target archer of his day....
I am of his belief that too much thought is put into spine, FOC, degree of twist on fletching, tapered shaft or parallel or barrel tapers shafts, single bevel vs double bevel.
Get your bow...get some adequately spined arrows better to be too stiff than too weak....and shoot the damn things.
I got a feeling some all knowing modern bow shooter or other like minded traditionalist told you that your problem was all in the arrow. Bullcocky....
The ancient hunters did not know spine....they got a stiffly flexed shaft...worked on it...tried to get all their arrows closely matched in weight and stiffness as close as they could tell by hand...and then they shot them..over and over and over again.
If you arrows are shooting to left or right due to too stiff or too weak....if your nocking point and "form" is good....then soon you will start hitting where you are looking as your mind and form aligns with flight of your arrows. It will all come together.... These are not machines that you tinker with and force to do your bidding.
They are wood and string and feather and steel....work with it and you will succeed.
If you can practice all summer and put 2-3 arrows in row in area size of your hand at 15 yards instinctively then you are shooting good. Very few that are not string walking or gap shooting can lay there arrows side by side in the X ring like can be done with pins for sights.
it doesnt take perfectly matched arrows....to shoot a traditional bow well.
It only takes the desire to put time into practicing and learning your bow and making your form consistent where your arrow has the opportunity to do its part. If your form breaks down...the arrows only does what you tell it.
I personally dont think it is wood arrows if they are even close to proper spine for your bow...you can be over or under spined and still wont make a huge difference. Your form is the greatest impact to accuracy...period.
I also see you talking about hammering out trade points from steel or spoons...how about work on one aspect first before you try to conquer the archery world and all the parts.
personal opinion...you want accuracy and all that goes with it now...not after putting some time and self-evaluation in first.
if that is the case...get some carbons as there are only 3-5 sizes to choose from....and start gap or walking the string for better accuracy.
just dont blame wood arrows....never had a reasonably straight, reasonably spined, or reasonably matched arrow that caused me to shoot poorly...NEVER.