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Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: Fidelios on August 01, 2012, 05:41:00 AM
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Yesterday, I was stalking for deer to try and get some nice unzoomed pics. I climbed a tree and stood there for 4 hours. I had spotted a group of 8 Fallow deer in an opening, just grazing. As I stood up on the tree, I was hoping that they would eventually come back into the woods to rest. What happened next was really strange. The smallest of the deer from the group of eight stormed right within the perimeter of that particular area of trees. He stood there for a bit then ran twice more across the area. After the 4 hours as it was getting too dark to safely come down he tree I went to check if they were still on the clearing. They were and again, the smallest of the youngsters was the one that kept running around the group and stopping to listen. Whenever he did so all the group stopped and perked up, even the 4 adult females. Is this normal to have such a young member of a group of deer being the one apparently responsible for the perimeter and safety of the rest? Thank you very much. :confused:
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It sounds like the little one was just running around with to much energy. Like kids do. I have seen young whitetail do this and when they stop the mother always seems to look up and listen with them.
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What bugged me was that he ran into the forest area away from the rest. At that point he was completely on his own with only me on the tree watching him.I mean, he was tiny...but I am ready to accept that explanation too as it makes sense too. Thx for the reply.
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Very young deer don't make good look outs. Due to being the dumbest deer in the woods, yearling bucks are often killed by mistake, but they sure are a tasty mistake.
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Its when you see them wearing infra red goggles and ghillie suits that you need to be carful. They sure are sneaky devils.
ChuckC
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It has been my experience that half grown fawns do run interference for adult deer. There is a pecking order in a group of deer, small bucks come out first followed by mid sized, with the big boys appearing last.
I have been picked out by these pint sized deer more times than I can remember when the adults seemed oblivious to my position.
One time a little button head came to the small plot I was watching. It zigged and zagged through the trees around the plot, obviously on a mission. It finally got down wind of me and picked me out in the tree.
I heard another deer in the thicket where the button head came from but couldn't see anything but patches of brown, that is until the button head sorted, then the patches of brown turned into a monster buck headed the other way.
He was using the little guy for cannon fodder.
Young lone bucks and does are the dumbest deer in the woods but don't expect the same behavior when they are with a group.
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I have to go with the too much energy, and not enough smarts philosophy. I have had young deer run past me to get to a feed field while the momma took more time to check things out before stepping into the open. If the young deer had swung down wind first they would have busted me. Not from experience and smarts, just luck. Like young boy, young male deer seem the most energetic and reckless. I don't doubt older bucks hang back and watch the reactions or fate of younger deer before they come into an area.
I had a neighbor who was convinced that 1.5 and 2.5 year old bucks often shadowed mature bucks. Often they would appear in a field first, then the big boy. He often would see the younger buck, of different one sniffing the gut pile in the morning. This was from a farmer who watched his fields every night all rifle season, taking his deer with a long range shot from his back deck. Not my style, but he had a lot of hours logged watching bucks and does from that deck.
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This goes for elk too. Generally when a herd is feeding or traveling up the mountainside, or down, it'll be spikes and young cows out front, sometimes a good ways in front. I always know that If I see a couple spikes wondering together, there is a good chance that more elk will be following. I let them feed past and get in behind them.
I don't know that this is an organized thing per se though. I think it is generally the pecking order thing mentioned by eric being played out in real life. The spikes and young cows just aren't as much an integrated part of the group and are also very curious and not as patient. They just seem to wander and naturally get out in front. The older elk learn to take their cues from each other, rather then from themselves.
When they are calves they take all their cues from their moms. eventually their independent streak takes over and they learn to survive on their own a bit. Then, they melt into the herd better. That independent streak makes them the unwitting canary in the mine shaft. Many a spike has fallen to the ground as a result.
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I know many a guy who has let a doe or small buck go only to have a real beauty come in 5-6 minutes behind them. Seems the small ones are put to the task of trail breakers as part of the learning curve.......
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I've experienced the same thing with whitetails. One stand in particular, one of my favorites, a very small food plot with some white and red oaks scattered in and around it, not 40 yards from a pine thicket. A fawn will come out first, feed for 4-5 minutes and the does will lay back next to the heavy cover and watch. I can usually see at least some of the does on the edge of the thicket watching. The fawn goes back down to the herd and they filter out. I've been hunting this stand for three years now and it happens the same way almost every evening. Pretty cool to watch the whole thing play out. After seeing this countless times I believe that the fawn is running recon/scouting for the group.
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I have seen this behavior with pigs and deer and elk. It is not clear if the group is allowing 'practice' time for the young ones or if they are using the lightweights to deliberately humiliate us hunters.
Either way it is really demeaning to be picked off by some inexperienced little fart; and I demand to be treated with a little more respect! :o
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Bjorn...
awesome. Couldnt agree more. :-)
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Could be as simple as an impertinant child can't wait and goes on ahead and around, while the elders wait. Even without the child, the elders would wait and be cautious, so it appears to us that this is a planned event.
Wish we knew for sure. Kinda neat
ChuckC
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Chuck, I agree and that very well could be the case. In my limited experience the doe unit is composed of does and fawns of all ages and normally only one comes in first. The rest follow in with the remainder of the unit. Again just my limited experience. I've seen it several times in larger crop fields but I've always scratched it up to impatient fawns that just come in early. Who knows but there very well could be a hierarchy and the low man goes out first. Whitetail behavior fascinates me and I could be giving them more credit than I should. I do know often it works to their advantage... There have been many of great setups boogered up on young/immature deer taken before a hunter ever sees the full potential of his stand/setup. I'm certainly guilty of it.
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Caution around a food source (where we usually hunt) is a learned behavior. Adult deer have obtained the experience to have this caution. Fawns and yearlings have not. Older deer will watch for signs of danger much longer than younger deer will. Consequently the first deer in the field are younger deer. Are the older deer attuned to the behavior of other less experienced deer who run out into the fields early? Of course. Is this a part of their conscious plan? I don't think so.
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(http://i881.photobucket.com/albums/ac18/Warberg/2012-07-30114934.jpg)
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(http://i881.photobucket.com/albums/ac18/Warberg/2012-07-05155606.jpg)
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This is a few pics of living with lowland blacktails that dont get pressured in area I live. Before posting more pics hope these are sized right. I certainly have learned alot from them.
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Thanks a lot guys! Ther is a wealth of experience here that no none can buy! Thank God this site exists!!! :campfire:
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I don't think this is an orchestrated plot, but a simple "convenience" for the hierarchy of the herd. Younger deer are not yet smart enough to always be cautious, and the old, experienced ones are wise enough to watch what happens as the "kids" forge ahead.
I do the same with squirrels, birds, and deer I am watching that I don't intend to shoot. THEY don't know they're my scouts for incoming game.... but I do!!!
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Miguel,
I first observed similar behavior to what you are describing in back to back hunting seasons about 5 years ago and I posted about it here. It had to do with maternal does allowing yearlings to apparently act as "decoys" and I observed it too often to not believe that is exactly what was happening. I think it's simply their learned reaction to being legally baited and hunted from tree stands. Deer used to never look up either! Not so long ago, any yearling so anxious as to try to get ahead of its mother to rush into a place she associates with danger would surely have received a swift kick. Now yearlings coming in first is not at all unusual. I've watched "wind sprints" across my shooting lanes, knowing full well mommna is 50-75 yds behind my completely camoflaged stand in a tree I've never hunted before. I can accept that it was easy to let jr.'s youthful exuberance take over(just don't kick him upside the head). I'm just completely stunned at how she trained him to do the wind sprints before "go live"! What I observed was not merely playful behavior, it was precisely choreographed movement directly under my stand to get me to betray my presence. The only time the yearling stopped and rested was when it was safely behind brush. This was...dare I say it....teamwork!
P.S. The last episode turned out poorly for jr., I learned to snap shoot from a sitting position and drilled him the second she blew. I cannot abide conspiracy!
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Sounds like a breakdown of the moral fiber going on in the deer community. Mothers sacrificing their children to save their own hides. Whats the deer world comming to. :pray:
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Though I did not read all comments, I wonder myself from my high and low country deer and elk hunting experiance. If there is comunication that is not picked up with our hearing decimal level. Kinda simular to a dog whistle. Its only a theory based on stomach and muscle movement with younger siblings quickly responding. none of which was in a tree stand. Just being very close and wind in my favor. And I have good hearing. With pics posted above, noticed several times Mom(doe) was able to stop these fawns pictured above from getting any closer to the road. Again small chest and stomach twitching and immediate responce.. Anybody else experiance this? Or just a well known fact I never knew???
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(http://i881.photobucket.com/albums/ac18/Warberg/2011-11-03122859.jpg)
(http://i881.photobucket.com/albums/ac18/Warberg/2011-11-03122826.jpg)
These are 10 yard or less pics. The fawn in middle we called tripod as u can see it was hit by a car on back leg. But we simply share the property with them, and learn alot from them. Curious on others feedback..
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In the OP's case,i agree with the whole over energized and inexperience of the youngster.BUT>>>
I have on many ocasions witnessed an older doe leading the way and scoutin out the situation for the Bucks.I once watched it happen with a doe and 2 other bucks,comming off a mountain to water .I watched em for 3 days doing the same patterns.The doe would move ahead,watch wait test the waters and then look back to the bucks and they would then come as far as she did.then she would proceed further.This whent on 20 or 30 times untill they reached the water.
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Mind blowing stuff guys! Thank you!!