I thought I had settled on a 56 inch recurve for the upcoming hunting season, but I made the mistake of dusting off one of my 66 inch longbows.
The draw on that bow is ten times smoother than the shorty recurve, it is like butter!
Now, I do have a few questions.
First of all: do all 66 inch D-style longbows have hand shock? By this I mean a real "bounce" in the handle upon the shot.
Second of all, do I need to really change the way I grip the bow to compensate for the hand shock? Will I end up with a broken arm if I don't shoot with a bent elbow?
Most of the past 19 years I have been shooting takedown recurves, so the change in the handle is certainly something I need learn.
Thanks for any help you can give. I'm excited to start shooting more longbows.
Brett
Brett,
I haven't shot a D bow that had zero hand vibration and I have shot a few that had substantial hand 'shock'. Put on an 8 strand skinny string if your bow is capable and I think you will find a substantiall reduction in hand shock/vibration.
Some D bows seem to shoot better with more heal in your grip.
check out the HH bow thread... tons of info on grips, handshock, strings, etc there.
I'm certainly no expert, and others may take issue with my opinons, but here is my experience. Hand shock has never really been an issue for me, as it just doesn't seem relevant , perhaps I am just a bit of a Neanderthal ( a lot of people certainly think so). I shoot mainly Hill bows with straight or dished grips.
I find that a different grip is beneficial. Hold the bow firmly, not necessarily a death grip choke hold, but a strong, solid hold down on the heel of the hand. You don't lightly grasp it, but you do hold that sucker. With tradtional longbow style grips such as straight or dish, a lower heel down grip sort of comes naturally for me. My arm is slightly bent, but that is my natural style that was there even when I shot recurves.
I think some people make too much out of the severity of hand shock, or perhaps they are just more sensitive to it than some. Probably a firm, low heel grip will make all this a manageable thing. Or, to put it another way, if you don't worry about it, it won't become a worry.
Some on the forum have stated that they have had very significant problems with hand shock and will totally disagree with me, but the short answer is "No, you will not break your arm without a perfect longbow grip - whatever that may be!
In short, shoot the longbow and concentrate on the fun and don't worry about hand shock. If it does becomes an issue,some of the form experts can give you far better advice than I can. Enjoy!
I have 2 Bama 66in straight limbed longbows a Hunter and a Royal both 50@28, I use D97 strings on both, both are very smooth, hunt with both of them! But I have shot some staight limbed longbows that are a little jumpy but I do not have any previous injuries to deal with!
Heal of the hand down is key. When I first started with mine I felt like I needed a mouthpiece. Now I try to have low grips on my recurves too.
I would more than agree with Pete about D bows shooting better with a low heel grip. Every one I have shot demanded it. There might be some fine tuning as well as heavy arrows to help soften your bow's hand shock but some Hill style bows just have it.
I notice you have a Toelke Whip already and can assure you if you want an exceptionally "well-mannered" Hill style with nearly zero hand shock, shoot one of Dan's Super Ds, you will be amazed.
If it's an older bow it probably has a dacron B50 string. You will no doubt find a sweeter, milder shooting bow with a different string. I have been making D97 strings for my longbows and without fail they all are more pleasant to shoot. I make 12 strand strings but add extra strands of B50 in the loops to build them up there to about 16-18 strands to better protect the limb tips. The difference seems to be greater on some than others but all exhibit milder manners.
As Pete pointed out, you can reduce the shock of any bow considerably by replacing a dacron string with a fast flite string. How skinny you go with the string is up to you.
Of course, a heavier arrow absorbs more of the bow's energy and reduces hand shock.
Finally, a fairly gentle/loose grip helps a lot. If you grip the bow tightly, all the excess energy at the shot is transferred right up your bow arm. If you hold the bow lightly, the bow still vibrates, but less of the excess energy is transferred to your bow hand. Good luck.
I am trying to hold the bow with more pressure in the heel of my hand. That grip difference is not too difficult to deal with.
I suppose I will move to an SBD string or somethiing like it. This is a FF capable bow.
At 55# I am shooting 550 grain arrows, so I probably will not change the arrow part of the equation.
Thanks for all the info.
Brett
"First of all: do all 66 inch D-style longbows have hand shock? By this I mean a real "bounce" in the handle upon the shot."
I've never shot one that didn't--some worse than others.
"Second of all, do I need to really change the way I grip the bow to compensate for the hand shock? Will I end up with a broken arm if I don't shoot with a bent elbow?"
I couldn't say there. Shock is shock--maybe the way you grip the bow will change the way it feels to you, but it's going to be there.
As already noted, if you have a dacron string on the bow switching to a FF type (if the bow allows) can make a huge difference. It does NOT have to be a low strand count string.
I agree with David Mitchell--12 strands of Dynaflight '97 with dacron padding in the loops works great. 12-14 strands of 8125 is also good (smaller diameter string), or 16-18 strands of 8190 (a "skinny" string without the low strand count).
Keep in mind you will need to re-tune, might even need to make arrow or point adjustments.
My #1 hunting bow is a 66" longbow, but it's a d/r design--don't have to worry so much about shock.
Chad
OK so now someone needs to invent, and market, a lightly gel padded shooting glove to remove some of the inherent shock in D bows.
ChuckC
Already have them Chuck. Motorcycle riding gloves with the fingers cut off. Harley sells them, among others. :bigsmyl: Never used them for that purpose though. Really has more to do with the firmness of the grip, however, placing something between the riser and hand might help a little.
I just got a set of 64" limbs for my Zipper sxt riser to go along with my 58" recurve limbs. They shoot w/in 3-4 fps of each other, so now I can shoot the same arrows, same riser and alternate limbs for my need. Boy do the 64's feel so much smoother and are much easier on the ring finger at my 30" draw. My release is much cleaner. Other than blind hunting I'm not sure the curve limbs will get much use now.
Being able to use the same riser helps with the transition and you're not tinkering with a new way of gripping your bow, making slight tweaks to form, etc. I'm a big fan of picking one piece of equipment and sticking to it - seems like come hunting season I have more confidence when I'm familiar and proficient with my weapon. I'm the same way with my hunting guns as well. I own two guns that I hunt with here in Indiana and will add one 300 win mag when I move out west next year and will use it to hunt everything.
If you have a Hill or Hill-style longbow that has a straight or dished grip (no locator) then you'll need to hold the bow differently from what your recurves like. I suggest going to You-Tube and finding a video clip for Howard Hill. Look carefully at how he holds the bow...firmly nestled into the PALM of the hand, as opposed to loosely nestled into a straight-wristed grip typically used for recurves. As mentioned above, holding the bow into the palm of the hand helps to get the heel of your hand down into the grip, and it also helps to keep a bend in the bow elbow rather than shooting with your bow arm straight and locked (the latter not a good thing). Hold onto the bow firmly but not tightly...it should not move loosely in your hand. Putting light tension on the string as you draw and letting the bow settle into your hand will help you determine how much palm to give the bow for your particular hand shape and the bow's grip shape, and help's get the bow aligned properly so it will not torque as you draw/shoot. Beyond that, shoot it like you normally do and make adjustments as needed. It'll take some practice (these bows are light in the hand, and the heel-down kind of grip will feel odd at first), but give it a chance and you might find the new experience addicting.
Do yourself a favor and put a kink in the elbow of your bow hand.
Imagine holding a bunny by the ears out to your side, now just drop your elbow a little so that it is bent down a little. Now try shooting, handshock boing??? hardly.
It is not that difficult to allow a little bend in the bow arm. With time your own reflexes will take most of the hand shock away, but you will lose a bit of draw in the process and that is a good thing. Healing the grip, bending the arm, body forward, head forward and bingo, the next time a deer comes trotting by, you will know right where your arrow is going. DON'T SHOOT THREE UNDER, I hate it when guys try to shoot three under with Hill style bow that was not designed for it, it recreates more problems than it is worth.
Glad to know that I am on your unfavorable list Pavan! And we haven't even met yet.
Shooting LH - I shoot *everything* three-under - especially my 66" Hill longbow which IS my go to bow....
Shooting RH - I used to shoot everything split-finger - except I do not shoot RH any longer....
Keep the wind in your face!
Shoot straight, Shinken
:archer2:
All great point. Heel down, hold the bow firmly (like a baby bird, tight enough not to get away but not to tight to kill it), I also like to ensure to apply little more pressure with the bottom three fingers of hand. Keep elbow bent, natures shock absorber. I would make a new string and see if it helps, also would try a heavier arrow, my longbows love a heavy arrow and it helps with any shock that may happen. Hope this helps, good luck and keep the string waxed.
So, Pavan, how do you really feel about three under? :confused: :dunno: :D