I am interested in the overall dimensions of your Hill style bows. Here are my two current Hill bows:
Howard Hill Wesley 60# @ 27": 1/2" deflex, 16" riser length, 1 1/16" riser width & 15/32" at knock.
Howard Hill Big Five 70# @ 28": 1/2" reflex, 15" riser, 1 1/8" riser width & 1/2" at knock.
What are some of your bows specs, Miller, Sunset, Schultz, Pete George, Northen Mist and others?
All my Hill bows are 68 inches long. 2 Wesley Specials at 65@28, 1 Big Five at 50@28, 1 Cheetah at 40@28, 1 Cheetah at 55@28. I draw a hair over 27", so I don't quite get the rated draw.
Sam, I am interest in everyone's bows' dimensions, width of the limbs at the riser and tips, riser length and amount of deflex or string follow?
I am very interested in this thread. I'll measure my Union Jack when I get back in town
It may be interesting to list the bows year if known. I am wondering how much overall difference there is between different bows by the same manufacturers and between different manufacturers. Do the bow's dimension vary based on the bow draw weight? I like the traditional thick (deep) and thin ( narrow) limb bows and am wondering what is the average for each now maker.
You might want to standardize the data for easier comparison or tracking.
NTN length
Marked Draw weight and length
Riser length
Limb thickness, at riser, mid limb, at nock
Limb width at riser, mid limb, at nock
Handle width, depth, length, crosscut shape, type
Bowyer
Est. age or year of build
Number of lams
Limb core woods
Limbs trapped or not....on and on.....
This might be too detailed for some but it would be excellent data for many. You could also design a form to fill out to make it easier for those helping with detailed specs.
Thanks SportHunter, good input. Not sure how to post a form in the thread.
No body wants to participate?
Timberline "BamYew",by Pete George backset,straight grip 66" 66#@27"(I draw 26")
1 bamboo limb lam,2 yew under brown glass,back&belly.
at riser=1/2" thick,1-1/16" wide
at nock=3/8" thick, 7/16" wide
My favorite Hill style bow that I've shot,I love this bow!
I've got 4 more Hill style bows that I'll measure for you also.
Great thanks Goshawkin,
I plan on putting all this information that gets posted here on a spreadsheet and send it to all those that participate. I am hoping we get a lot of participation for a real good overview!
Joe
I can give you the dimensions of my HH longbow handle. The handle depth is 2 1/4" without any dish. I measured directly below the grip on the handle ,below the leather and it was 2 1/8". The width of the handle is 7/8". And the shelf is the same size as my wood arrows with the little piece of leather that is stuck under the grip leather. I love that handle. Dave Wallace of Wallace Mountain Longbows, overhauled it to these dimensions for me.
New to me Schulz American Longbow-
NTN = 68"
Deflex = 5/8"
Draw Wt = 64# @ 28"
4 laminations of bamboo, brown glass back & belly
Riser = 1/2" thick, 1-1/16" wide
Nock = 3/8" thick, 3/8" wide
Handle is 2 3/8" deep slight dish, 1-3/16" wide
Nocks are very small, much smaller than my HH bows.
Joe,good deal on that Schulz bow!
The nock width measurement was taken on the limb before the overlay.It is 3/8" at the string groove.The depth of the handle is 2 3/16" and the width is 1 3/16". Comparing our measurements I guess you can tell Mr.George was a graduate of Mr.Shulz's bow building school!
Compared to my H Hill's the Timberline's tips are quite a bit smaller with more limb taper.
L-R,Timberline,Wesley special and Black Bear
(http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc156/goshawkin/photo-101.jpg)
The Timberline's handle is deeper also.
L-R blackBear,WesleySpecial,Timberline
(http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc156/goshawkin/photo-81.jpg)
Belcher Union Jack 57@28
NTN: 66"
Width: riser 1 1/4" tip, 3/8
Thickness. Riser 5/8 tip 3/8
Handle 4 1/8 "long. 2 1/8 deep 1 1/8 wide. Cut 3/16-1/8 before center ( not center cut)
Measurements taken with a stick rule.
1/2" string follow
Oh, riser length from end of fade to end of fade 15"
I measured up three bows for this thread today, I'll email you full specs.
Good stuff so far, I hope we get a variety of bows to compare. The more we get the better the comparison. Keep them coming guys.
I wish more would play! I would love to see some more numbers. The NM I owned had 1" wide limbs at the fade. That's all I remember other than I will own another
QuoteOriginally posted by Goshawkin:
Joe,good deal on that Schulz bow!
The nock width measurement was taken on the limb before the overlay.It is 3/8" at the string groove.The depth of the handle is 2 3/16" and the width is 1 3/16". Comparing our measurements I guess you can tell Mr.George was a graduate of Mr.Shulz's bow building school!
Compared to my H Hill's the Timberline's tips are quite a bit smaller with more limb taper.
L-R,Timberline,Wesley special and Black Bear
(http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc156/goshawkin/photo-101.jpg)
The Timberline's handle is deeper also.
L-R blackBear,WesleySpecial,Timberline
(http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/cc156/goshawkin/photo-81.jpg)
Nick,
Very sweet looking bows, especially Mr. George's, very much the same lines as my Schulz.
Joe
Here are specs for three Hill style bows.
Bow Name/Label: Howard Hill, Northern Mist, Northern Mist
Model: Tembo, Classic TD, Shelton
NTN: 68'', 68'', 66''
Nock Width: 1/4'', 5/16'', 5/16''
Profile: Backset 1'' , Very Slight R/D , String Follow 1 1/8''
Lams/Type: 3 Bamboo, 4 American Elm, 4 Bamboo
Riser Width: 1 1/8', 1'', 1 1/8''
Handle Depth: 2 1/4'' to 2 3/16'' on dished grip, 2 1/8'', 2 1/8''
Handle Shape: Slight dish/Oblong, Straight/Oval, Straight/Oval
Handle Width: 1 1/4'', 1 1/16'', 1 1/8''
Riser Length: 15'', 16'', 15 1/2''
Limb width at nock: 7/16'', 1/2'', 1/2''
Limb width at midlimb: 15/16'', 7/8'', 7/8''
Limb width at riser: 1 1/8'', 1 1/8'', 1 1/8''
Limb depth at nock: 3/8'', 3/8'', 3/8''
Limb depth at midlimb: 7/16'', 7/16'', 7/16''
Limb depth at riser: 1/2'', 1/2'', 1/2''
trapped etc.: Trapped to belly, Trapped to back, Trapped to back
Bowyer: John Schulz, Steve Turay, Steve Turay
Est. Year Built: 1970s, 2011, 2009
Marked Specs: 64# @ 26'', 56# @ 28'', 56# @ 28''
Great stuff SportHunter, I will be sure to put this on the spreadsheet. Help me out with Trapped, what do you mean by this?
Trapped (trapezoid) changes a rectangular shaped limb to a rectangular limb with unequal length sides. You could have a wider belly or back of the limb. Trapped to back has narrower back, trapped to belly has narrower belly.
SportHunter, got it, thanks. I haven't seen a longbow trapped to the back, all the ones I have seen are rectangled (rounded) or trapped to the belly. My new to me Schulz is trapped to the belly. My Hills are rounded edges with the glass about the same size on the back & belly.
Any other Hill type bow owners out there want to provide info? The more we have the more information we all can share.
This is very interesting. Thanks for all the good info
Anyone else want to give up their bow info?
If i can figure out how to do all the measurements ill try to get schulz specs for you
khardrunner, that would be great, the more the merrier!
Joe
Looks like this post kinda fizzled out but I have a few questions... How much longer is the top limb on a hill bow than the lower limb?
I ask this because I assume the standard grip of a hill bow is around 4-4.5" long.. The arrow shelf being at the top of the grip would easily put the shelf at 2" above the center of the bow. IMO that would require some fun tillering or a longer top limb...
Also am I correct that the grip is roughly 4-4.5"? My local archery shops never have any hill bows in stock for me to look at.
QuoteOriginally posted by rmorris:
Looks like this post kinda fizzled out but I have a few questions... How much longer is the top limb on a hill bow than the lower limb?
I ask this because I assume the standard grip of a hill bow is around 4-4.5" long.. The arrow shelf being at the top of the grip would easily put the shelf at 2" above the center of the bow. IMO that would require some fun tillering or a longer top limb...
Also am I correct that the grip is roughly 4-4.5"? My local archery shops never have any hill bows in stock for me to look at.
Two of my hills have 4 1/8" long handles and one is 4 1/4". The leather is slightly larger by ~1/8"
The lower limb on my 68" Big 5 is 1.5" shorter than the upper limb. I think that is pretty much standard regardless of bow length, though I could be wrong.
Thanks for the information.
How close to center cut are Hill bows ? Anyone got any close up pix of a Hill style handle. . side and front / back views that they can post ?
Anybody got any experience installing a two piece metal sleeve (take down sleeves) unit into a Hill style handle ?
ChuckC
The true center of a Howard Hill and other Hill type bows should be about center of where your middle finger is on the handle. I replaced the leather on my new Half Breed and sure enough there was a mark with a pencil dead center of where my middle finger placement was on the handle. Its 1 1/2" below the shelf. Great info. I will get my 3 bows measurements and post soon.
David thanks. !.25 to 1.5" above center line is a pretty standard location for the shelf. How about the other center. . . ?
Is the shelf cut to the centerline of the bow's width or beyond (or shy of it). If you look at a strung bow, you can imagine the center line of each limb and see how the string, held over that line, compares to the shelf cut out on the riser.
Hill bows are kinda skinny and I don't believe that they are cut PAST center, I wonder if they are even cut TO center ?
ChuckC
Hey Chuck they are cut close to 1/8" before center. I shoot without a sideplate and it really helps them shoot better.
Here is a list of the few that participated!
(http://i1196.photobucket.com/albums/aa401/jaformella/BowDimensionsHHStyle.jpg) (http://s1196.photobucket.com/user/jaformella/media/BowDimensionsHHStyle.jpg.html)
Thx for all the info, after 28 years I, dust of my Howard Hill books,
And hooked again on archery, want to make a string follow easy to shoot, forgiving bow.
After Howards words, for hunting a sensitive bow does't works.
I have an Martin ML 10 50# longbow is there interest for the dimensions?
imho, all that matters with a hill style american flat longbow design is how the limbs are set (straight, string follow or reflex), the nock-to-nock length, the handle shape, and the cut depth of the shelf. riser length, limb core materials, glass, holding weight - all are important, too, but in a separate category. the other dimensions are best left to the bowyer. ymmv.
This does show more or less some of the numbers that bows have. My bows have some differences. Measurements of a loaded bow at brace are one thing, measurements at full draw can be another. While limb timing is easily felt, measurements at brace are not a guarantee. Bows with completely different specs can all have good limb timing. I can flip my new bow upside down and it shoots identical as right side up. The bows static measurements showed that it was possible and it is.
howard hill afl's are just elb's with flattened bellies. the cross section variations are many, and as long as they are in harmony with the bow's length, riser length, and fade out angles, they'll still be hh afl's.
there is a "look" to an afl, but there can be many dimensional differences from one to another, as well as materials differences and how they're fitted into the bow's design.
clearly, a reverse handled hill longbow is radical whence compared to his original creations, and certainly to any elb, but like it or not it's still an afl.