I get questions about DIY hunts from some members here on Tradgang. I have been doing DIY hunts for a long time and have also gone on guided hunts. I thought I would provide some information for those that have asked me specifically about DIY elk hunting, but it can pertain to any other types of DIY hunting.
This year we are going on a DIY elk hunt in Colorado from September 6 through September 24. Last year we went to the same place and found elk heaven. This year we intend to send a few elk to heaven.
Next year I am going solo on this elk hunt, because my hunting partner is going halibut fishing in Alaska. This solo hunt is in my bucket list so next year works out great. The following year we are going to do a DIY hunt in Alaska for moose and caribou.
My hunting partner and I like to do DIY hunts. We enjoy the whole experience of planning, scouting, camping and doing our own hunting. In addition we can make our own time table for the hunt and are not restricted by time constraints of the outfitter. Also in our case it enables us to do these hunts yearly since the cost is much less. There is an initial cost for some equipment you may not have, but who doesn't like buying more toys. Once this equipment is purchased, it can last a life time if cared for.
With the tools we have today you can scout any place in the world from your computer and topo maps. With Google earth I can see the tree I post in Ohio, where I came within 20 yards of a monster herd bull in Colorado and look down at Lewellyn Glacier in North Western BC where I hunted Mountain Goat.
There is nothing wrong with guided hunts and I have enjoyed them very much, but for us DIY is the way to go.
You don't have to travel far to put adventure back in your hunting. You can do it right at home and if you are unfamiliar with camping and hunting for extended periods of time I recommend that is how you start.
Some of our most fun hunts have been close to home deer hunting, by camping on public land.
We all are pressed for time and try to grab any hunting time we can to get out in the woods with our bows. I do it too. I suggest you get much more out of the hunt by just adding a small amount of adventure to the hunt and little more time for yourself to enjoy the hunt and immerse yourself in it.
In our case it may be heading to Stokes State Forest in NJ, renting a lean-to from Friday night through Sunday. There are bear, deer and turkey there. For me I enjoy taking a deer fair chase with my bow and enjoying the whole experience of the hunt, much more than making it work trying to shoot a trophy buck. After a while trophy hunting becomes more of a job to me, rather than a labor of love experiencing the whole enchilada. For me a nice fat doe taken on an short local extended, camping\\hunting trip is worth more than measured inches.
I am not knocking trophy hunting. Trophy hunters have my utmost respect, because I know how hard they have to work to accomplish their goals. It has to be a labor of love to them, because it very time consuming and labor intensive. I am just saying that for me at my age (58), I have moved on to enjoying the experience more than just accomplishing the goal. Now my goal is enjoying the whole experience.
This will be a fun thread and thanks for the advice. I am wanting to start DIY hunting for elk as the cost of guided hunts is out of my price range. The solo aspect interests me as well as I've not yet found a hunting partner I match up with well for out of state hunts. Good luck out there and I'll be following along.
Well said.
When do we leave? I'm looking forward to this.
I am not going to go over any health requirements. That is something you should really go over with your Dr.
My Doctor knows I am not the sharpest knife in the draw when it comes to my health, so I sure can't give advice to anyone else. Both he and my wife call me an idiot! I tend to disagree, but not by much.
My Dr. made me get my heart and lungs thoroughly checked out, because I wanted to get a diet pill prescription to help loose weight and get in shape for the trip. He is smarter than I am, so he made get my lungs Xrayed and have a nuclear stress test for my heart before he would give the Rx. I believe in magic pills and boy did they work.
I checked out fine and got the magic diet pill. I worked out during lunch at a nearby gym. I did ½ hour everyday on a stair climber. I went on a low carb, high protein diet. I also did some bike riding and that was the extent of my exercise routine.
Now I was way out shape and needed all the help I could get. I went from around 244 lbs to 193 lbs by the time I was in Colorado. After 11 days in the back country I came out of the back country at 183 lbs. I went from a tight 40" waist to a loose 33" waist. Man it felt great!
If I can do it, anybody can. I was glad I did, because it made the trip more enjoyable.
The first step is deciding what you want to hunt, where and when. Then commit to it, giving yourself plenty of time to prepare.
There are so many resources for you today over the internet it is amazing and anyone can plan a back country hunt with your fingertips sitting in your man cave. You have so many neat tools, you can see where you want to hunt in 3d over the internet and get the exact GPS coordinates. Every resource for information in the area you want to hunt is posted on the internet, with their name, responsibility and phone number. I haven't encountered one person I have cold called that was not glad to help me. They usually answered more questions than I knew I even had.
When we started doing this before the Internet we had to call people locally, that put us in touch with other people and it was a chain that took a lot of time and effort. Even to get where we wanted to go, the best resource was either a Map Atlas or AAA Trip Tic (for old timers that may remember them). Then when we wanted to find where we wanted to be in the back country we used topo maps and a compass. I still mostly use a topo and compass. I do carry a GPS but I do not strictly rely on it, most of my navigation is by compass and topo.
All I am saying is that today it so much easier to get your home work done. What would have taken months of planning to accomplish, can now happen in an instant. So take advantage of it.
Once you have decided on a game animal and committed to do it. It is time to start the fun of finding the right state, time of year and area to hunt.
If you are going to do a back country hunt make sure you get some resources to prepare you for that type of hunting. If you will hunt out of a base camp prepare accordingly for that.
Both my hunting partner and I like to ensure we are hunting in areas most other hunters do not want to go. Whether it is elk or deer we find remote walk in only places to hunt.
Here are several examples of hunts we went on for elk. Each has it's advantages and disadvantages.
We went to Montana elk hunting several times along the Missouri Breaks in the Charles Russell Wilderness area along the Missouri River. In this area it is easy walking and there were many trophy elk. We hunted out of a base camp and each of us had opportunities at elk. This is a good area to start, since there are roads, you can effectively hunt out of a base camp and the walking is easy as compared to other areas. We packed out a P&Y 5x5 in about 5 hours, the whole bull, skinned and boned. The negative to this choice is that you have to draw a permit and they are expensive in Montana. If you are going with other people you have to try to get a party permit to make sure everyone gets one that is going. You also have to apply by March 15th. The laws and process probably have changed since we went, so you have to check with the current process. Because of the expense and permit process we no longer go to Montana. Also there were many hunters. You could rarely consider a bugle to be from a bull and not another hunter. We did see bulls bugle, but I was going to throw a rock at the 5x5 we got, because his bugle was so bad I really thought it was another hunter. i had all I could do from yelling shut up! Ha!
At the other end of the spectrum we hunt Colorado in mountainous walk in only wilderness areas and back country hunt for 11 or more days. We go in 10 or 11 miles on foot. There are trophy elk in the back country on public land and we were very surprised that there were NO other hunters where we went, while there were BIG trophy elk. Many hunters hunt out of a base camp and travel 3 to 6 miles in a day. We backpack in 10 miles and hunt between 3 to 6 miles from there each day. We found that in the area we hunted the elk were up high. That is nice for hunters, because once we got up to the elk elevation the alpine hunt was flat without a lot of up and down. Other nice features of alpine hunting is that there were no bugs and plenty of water. If we find the the elk moved so do we. We started out hunting by not bugling and cow calling only from our Montana experience. We thought that the bugles we heard may be hunters. What we found was that every bugle was an elk. We also got responses from elk bulls for nearly every bugle we made. We wound up hunting by bugling up high. When we received a response the other hunter would move to the bull. One legal bull I bugled at for 45 minutes. He answered every time and my partner got within 40 yards until he got winded. He said the bull was feeding and just lifted his head to answer my bugle and went right back to feeding. This was a small legal bull. Also if you back country hunt in Colorado there are areas that do not require getting a permit ahead of time and you can buy your license and permit right over the counter. That makes planning very easy and if plans or circumstances change you can change with them. One thing to realize in Colorado, is no matter how many hunting licenses you have, you have to have your hunter safety card to get a license. In my case I took my archery hunter safety course in 1968. That was before it was computerized. Because I have a resident license they printed me a new one. Otherwise I would have had to take the safety course again. These are some of the things you have to make sure about up front.
The negatives of doing a alpine back country hunt is that you have to work hard to get into where you want to be. You have to get accustomed to the altitude. Your pack is going to feel very heavy climbing up to 11,000' no matter how light you think you packed it. Another issue is getting the elk out from being so far back in the back country. Even if you have a lot of time you have to realize it will takes days for two men to pack out an elk. Therefore if you are successful at the end of the hunt you have to figure on more time to get the elk out.
Last year both my hunting partner and I came very close to scoring on big bulls. I have no doubt that we will do it this year. We found elk heaven, but if we had to pack out an elk on foot from there we were going to leave elk heaven for someone else and we were going to find someplace else to hunt, where we could arrange to get the elk out. My partner is 59 and I am 58. We packed in and out on foot 10 miles with heavy packs. We hunted between 3 to 6 miles everyday. When we packed out we were truly glad we didn't shoot an elk near the end of the hunt. If I remember right it took us about 16 hours to pack out. On the way out it was up and down and 10 miles in this area is like 24 miles along the Missouri Breaks. I have packed out elk, moose and mountain goat. Packing out a elk from here would have taken at least 3 or 4 days and doesn't count any time to sleep in between.
We are going back to elk heaven this year and I have locked in a packer to get the elk out on horse back. We also arranged for the packer to pack us and our gear in and out on horse back. This will add many more days of hard hunting on our trip. If I hadn't been able to arrange a packer we would have looked for a new elk heaven. I can't begin to express how monumental the effort would be to pack out on foot, at least for two sea level landlubbers. If you do decide to do it on foot you can consider you are only hunting one elk. Because as soon as someone scores the hunt is over for both of you and 3 or 4 days of very hard work will begin. Once you are done with packing out the last of the elk, you won't have the energy to go back or desire for a second elk. Believe me when I tell you.
DIY elk in Colorado has been my dream for some time. Good stuff. :thumbsup:
Rob
Great information. Once you hear the bulls bugling you can never forget it. I have been on several DIY elk hunts and hunted from a base camp each time, which just never worked out good. Too much time wasted coming and going.
Finally !!! An elk thread. Oh boy. Been waiting to start reading some of these. I am going DIY to CO on my first elk hunt this year. I have been acquiring gear and making plans for the last 16 months.
Thanks Gil ! Will be watching and reading :D
:campfire:
Looking forward to this as I just moved back to MI from CO and won't get back to hunt this year...
The first part of the preparation is in regard to where, when and how.
The resources that can help are the Internet, books, services provided by BLM, State Fish and Wildlife, ranger offices for the area you will hunt, national park offices, state and federal biologists, game wardens, sporing goods stores in the area, the list can go on and on. The nice thing about it, is you can find as much or as little information you want on the Internet with a keystroke.
My first step many years ago was books in regard to doing western DIY hunts. Here are a few books that helped me greatly.
To determine the where and when I recommend the following books to start you off.
Bugling for Elk by Dwight Schuh. This is an older book but still holds a lot of valuable information. This is the book that started me on my DIY journey for elk. I had the desire but Dwight set the direction. Dwight has another book for mule deer, which is also great for DIY information and that book is Bowhunting for Mule Deer.
Elk Hunting the West by Mike Eastman. This book is more current and the Eastman's are all about hunting DIY public land in the west.
For back country how to information, there isn't any better book (it also comes with a DVD) than Backcountry Bowhunting by Cameron R Hanes.
I have experienced what Cameron writes about in his book and it is all great information that works and can be followed for a successful and safe back country hunt. I disagree with very little he writes and learned a whole lot about back country bowhunting. It saved me from a lot of lessons I would have had to learn the hard way.
I started with the desire to do this, then these books fueled the fire, then some smaller scale remote hunting gave me the confidence I could do it. Then I committed to it and got er done.
I will do these DIY elk hunts until one time I do not come back. I told my family, my hunting partner will give them the GPS coordinates in case they ever want to throw some flowers out there. I also told them coyotes and bears have to eat too.
You will understand what I mean if you ever go and do it properly prepared. If I could have brought enough food I could have stayed there for 30 days (I can't rely on me or my partners hunting skills to feed us). Once you experience it you will be hooked. When you spend time immersed in the back country for long periods of time hunting, you come back a different person. Your view on the outdoors and hunting takes a turn that you can't turn back from. It is a good direction to go in though.
"Once you experience it you will be hooked. When you spend time immersed in the back country for long periods of time hunting, you come back a different person. Your view on the outdoors and hunting takes a turn that you can't turn back from. It is a good direction to go in though."
Truer words have never been spoken!
Before we go any further in planning and doing a DIY ELK hunt, I thought I would post some pictures of last years hunt. This should wet your appetite and get some of the juices flowing.
We spent our first night in base camp at 9000' at the trail head to acclimate ourselves to the altitude.
My hunting partner had a itch on his hand so he thought he would let the birds scratch it.
(http://i696.photobucket.com/albums/vv324/distantmeadows/Colorado%202011/DSCN0024.jpg)
Then some neighbors stopped by for a visit. It looks like this one was in a bar fight.
(http://i696.photobucket.com/albums/vv324/distantmeadows/Colorado%202011/DSCN0023.jpg)
Then a few more joined the party.
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The next day we headed out on the trail. This is what a 58 year old man that lives at sea level with a 80# pack looks like when he is going to take his first step on the trail to climb to 10,800'. My face looked much worse! If I remember right I think I was crying!
(http://i696.photobucket.com/albums/vv324/distantmeadows/Colorado%202011/DSCN0016.jpg)
Doing Wyoming DIY elk hunt this year. Can't wait!
Good pix
Cool thread. DIY is mostly what we do over here in NZ but love to see how others plan and carry out major hunts.
When we hit 10,200' we found a place with good elk sign. We thought we would hunt there that night and the next morning. We backed back down to 10,000' so we could set up camp and not disturb the elk. I cried again because I do not like to give up ground when climbing!
(http://i696.photobucket.com/albums/vv324/distantmeadows/Colorado%202011/DSCN0027.jpg)
At 10,000' where we set up camp we found that the mosquitoes were so bad, we thought if the rest of the trip would be like this we would be miserable. We had to wear head nets, gloves and long sleeves. Neither one of us brought any bug juice.
(http://i696.photobucket.com/albums/vv324/distantmeadows/Colorado%202011/DSCN0033.jpg)
This little meadow had a lot of elk sign and we thought why walk through this to go find elk sign while we had it right here.
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Quote
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I didn't know Kenny Rogers elk hunted.
Enjoying the thread.
I bet you didn't know Gabby Hayes hunted elk either. Man I was glad to make it here. I am at 10,800' and 5 miles in. We are nearing our first planned camp. We have 5 more miles to our next camp. I am on a snow pack here.
(http://i696.photobucket.com/albums/vv324/distantmeadows/Colorado%202011/DSCN0043.jpg)
Here is our first camp. Home sweet home. We hunted here for 3 days. Some elk sign and we saw several elk and mule deer, but not what we were looking for.
(http://i696.photobucket.com/albums/vv324/distantmeadows/Colorado%202011/DSCN0050.jpg)
I love BIG mountains and this place had them plus other great hunting terrain. This is what I live for!
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Now you've gone and done it Gil. I just broke out in a full blown case of elk fever!!
Fantastic thread, and great information for everyone who dreams of one day chasing elk in the mountains. You are absolutely right about how addicting it is, and can end up changing your life and adds so much enjoyment for the entire year, just thinking about it.
Come on September!!
80# packs! You guys are hard core! I made the mistake of carrying that much gear last year up a 3 miles incline and it almost killed my brother and I at 38 and 48 yrs old! We are both ex-infantry soldiers to boot. This year we are going ultra light and our packs weigh 45#.
We found there is no way you can go ultra lite when packing in and staying for 11 days. Just 11 breakfasts, lunches and dinners fill a pack. I made the opposite mistake, which I won't do again. I tried to scale my pack down and left clothes I should have had with me. I paid the price, which you will see later. My pack was probably 70# and I wish it was 80#. 70# kills you anyway so another 10# is just a drop in the bucket.
I bivy hunted and had a helium bag. I just brought the essentials but when going for extended periods of time you will have a harder time cutting down.
Here is my pack.
(http://i696.photobucket.com/albums/vv324/distantmeadows/Colorado%202011/DSCN0071.jpg)
On a serious note, there are things that can happen on these DIY back country hunts that can seriously injure you. If you are prepared and use common sense you will be fine. In my opinion there is nothing that can happen that we can't get out of.
Except one thing! It isn't bears or mountain lions, falling and getting injured, getting sick - IT IS LIGHTNING!!!!! This is a major concern when you are alpine hunting for extended periods of time.
Before I went last year I never gave it a thought. The week we arrived in the town we were jumping off from, a park ranger retired after 30 years in the back country. He spent his first week in retirement back country elk hunting. He was struck and killed one week after retiring. If it can happen to him it can happen to any of us.
At this first camp I got my first taste of it. We had blue skies and it was a beautiful day. We saw big beautiful clouds in the distance. Then we could hear thunder a long way off. Next it rolled in on us.
Here it is right before we got hit.
(http://i696.photobucket.com/albums/vv324/distantmeadows/Colorado%202011/DSCN0065.jpg)
Here it is when it moved in around us. It first split and actually went around our camp to the mountain in back and in front of us.
(http://i696.photobucket.com/albums/vv324/distantmeadows/Colorado%202011/DSCN0051.jpg)
Then it rolled in on top of us. When you are this high up you aren't under the clouds you are in them. You don't want to know what it is like inside a thunderstorm cloud. Neither did I, so I went to sleep.
I told you earlier that my wife and Dr call me an idiot, well so does my hunting partner. He has more brains than I do, so he felt we should split up in case one gets hit the other can save the day. I agreed with him.
He did what you are supposed to do. The picture above is right at our camp. He went low into that valley. He curled up into a ball. He stood on his toes until the storm passed.
I did what all idiots do. I stayed where I was. I went into my bivy which had a aluminum pole that held up the bivy from laying on my face. I figured this made a good lightning rod. I curled up in my sleeping bag and went to sleep!
When the storm passed and blood came back into his legs, he climbed back up to camp. He woke me up and told me how bad the storm was. It sounded very scary! Then it was time to go hunting.
(http://i696.photobucket.com/albums/vv324/distantmeadows/Colorado%202011/DSCN0064.jpg)
Awesome pics and story. Keep 'em coming.
Great pictures! Awesome thread!
Nice story and pix!
MOre pics More pics I can't wait
Well we hunted this spot for three days and decided to go on to our next planned camp. It was 5 miles from where we were currently camped.
We broke camp.
(http://i696.photobucket.com/albums/vv324/distantmeadows/Colorado%202011/DSCN0070.jpg)
Now we are ready to go. We are headed to the furthest, highest mountains in the distance in these pictures. Remember the snow field in this picture to left of the highest peak, you will see why later on.
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Now a very important element to hunting the back country is the hunting partner you choose. My hunting partner is very lucky, so we won't discuss me. Ha! I am pretty lucky too.
My hunting partner and I have been doing these hunts yearly for many years. We know we can both confidently rely on each other. We are both confident that we would jeopardize our own lives to ensure the safety of the other. I am confident in my partners skills, he on the other hand is not as confident in mine! Ha!
We both know - two go in, two come out or none comes out!
If you are going to do any extended hunt with someone, make sure ahead of time you both have the same goals going into it. If you are selfish and it is all about you, go alone or stay home. If the person you are going with is selfish and it is all about him, go alone or leave him home. Either way you will have a miserable time. If on the other hand you are there for the adventure and the hunting and it doesn't matter to you or your partner which one of you gets an elk, then you are in good shape and will have a great hunt. A back country trip like this requires team work.
The most important rule for choosing a hunting partner on a remote back country hunt, is to choose one shorter than you with shorter legs.
I am 6' my hunting partner is 6'4". His crotch ends at his neck. He takes one baby step and I have to take 6 giant steps to keep up. He trudges along and has to wait for me. He catches his breath and busts my chops. He lets me catch a couple of breathes and says, "well are you ready"? That stinks.
(http://i696.photobucket.com/albums/vv324/distantmeadows/Colorado%202011/DSCN0083.jpg)
Great story so far! Been there .... done that .... and IT IS SOMETHING EVERY MAN SHOULD DO IN HIS LIFETIME!!!!
Oh, and he's right about the lightning up there. I have lived through hurricanes and tornadoes, and lightning in the mountains above 10,500 made my you know what pucker!
Even as dimwitted as I am, I'm bound to learn something from this thread. Great stuff, keep it coming!
Great thread Gil .... very good info. Doing a few shorter back country hunts certainly helps you with the equipment list.
:campfire:
Well we headed off on our 5 mile trek to our next camp.
One of the most valuable tools I use, from whitetail hunting to elk hunting to soon to be moose hunting again is a topo map. I have used topos for so long when I look at the map I see pictures of the area. I do a lot of my scouting by topo. The areas we hunted on this trip spanned three topo maps.
I also use and swear by a compass. If my sense of direction tells me to go one way and the GPS tells me to go in a different direction and my compass tells me a third direction, I go in the direction of the compass. The compass NEVER lies and you have to trust it implicitly.
I would NEVER head into the woods with just a GPS. Here is why. You absolutely need a compass to ensure your GPS is correctly calibrated.
Last year my hunting partner and I purchased high end Garmin Rino 530HCx GPSes. We did this because my partner thought it was essential to have a weather band and walkie talkie. I knew better, but I went a long after some disagreement.
Every time we try to use walkie talkies while hunting they were as useless as, well you know the saying. These were no exception. By the time you could use them, you had to turn them off because the reverb was annoying due to being so close when they start to work, the echo of the walkie talkie drowned out his voice and I could hear better if we just whispered. It is also hard to coordinate when and how you will use them.
The weather channel worked great in clear weather once in a while. It was useless too.
One thing we found out was that you can't trust your GPS. They have a calibrate feature to help calibrate where you are and direction.
When we reached our second camp, my partners GPS would point southeast in a northwest direction. It was opposite in every direction. My GPS was OK and I confirmed it with my compass. I played with his GPS until I found this calibrate function.
You had to push the calibrate function and turn slowing in a clockwise direction for the GPS to clear out its marbles and fly right. Imagine if you didn't know that, brought in the GPS for navigation and it wasn't calibrated. That could ruin you DAY, especially at NIGHT.
As we headed to our next camp we followed a trail on the topo. When you are in big woods out west there are trails and then there are trails! When started on this trail, it had been used by horses and was pronounced. As we headed into the country we liked, it changed and you should know what to look for.
Here is the beginning of the trail. A blind squirrel could follow this.
(http://i696.photobucket.com/albums/vv324/distantmeadows/Colorado%202011/DSCN0077.jpg)
As we got more into the country we liked this is the trail. You have to keep your eyes out for piles of boulder and occasionally sticks like this one. It isn't hard but it is different. As campers and hunters go by they may continue to add rocks to the pile. You may also find brass plates installed in stones on the ground.
(http://i696.photobucket.com/albums/vv324/distantmeadows/Colorado%202011/DSCN0078.jpg)
One of the most awesome posts ever. How do you like the treking poles? I bought a pair on sale thinking they would help me with the heavy load PFFFFT!
My pack is only going to be about 40lbs! I'm almost ashamed to use them after seeing your pack! I took some clothing out thinking I wouldn't need it. It may be going back in. I hate to be cold!
I would leave my bow and arrows home before I left my trekking poles and Tyvek home.
Those poles saved me from serious injury and they carry 33% of the load. You wouldn't believe the difference.
Also when you do have to catch your breath, you can lean forward on them and it takes the entire weight of the pack off your shoulders.
Those poles I used are a $19.99 pair I got at Walmart. I had read where guys said buy expensive ones because these don't hold up. The ones I got were great! They will last this year and many years to come.
Well a little later in the hunt I will show you why I was sorry I did that same thing, in regard to clothing.
We finally got to camp number two and found where we would hunt the rest of the trip. This is where we are going straight back to this time.
As you can see as you get to 11,200' you are treated like a king. They serve you breakfast in bed. When I first woke up this first morning there were three cow elk moving through 20 yards from camp. That is a nice welcome to elk camp.
(http://i696.photobucket.com/albums/vv324/distantmeadows/Colorado%202011/DSCN0101.jpg)
And you get a room with a beautiful view. This is what I woke up to each morning. Remember earlier I said to remember the snow field to the left of the tall peak. Here is a piece of it. A nice view to wake up to.
(http://i696.photobucket.com/albums/vv324/distantmeadows/Colorado%202011/DSCN0116.jpg)
Food can be an issue for some of you. It wasn't for me, but I suggest you read Cameron Haynes book to discuss food in more detail.
We stripped our packs down as light as we could, but if you are staying for an extended period of time you need a lot of food. Not in quantity alone, but because you are staying out there for 11 days. That means you need 11 lunches, breakfasts and dinners. I had been dieting for 6 months to loose the weight, but when you are burning up energy like we did you need a lot of calories. We didn't do that, so don't follow what we did.
On this trip I lost 10 more pounds in 11 days after I had already lost 60 lbs in 6 months preparing for the trip. I felt great and it didn't affect me, but we did some other things to help us.
This is what I brought for food. 11 Mountain House dinners (DELICIOUS), about 15 Nature Valley bars for 11 lunches with a few snacks and 11 packets of Quaker Oatmeal for breakfast. I also brought 3 extra Moutain House side dishes like rice peloff, peas and corn. That was in case we took a grouse for a hot meal. I should have know we would just be eating the side dishes.
I brought tea bags and a plastic bag of Nescafe instant coffee. We brought in a few Cremora, lemon and honey packets for the tea and coffee.
To help supplement our intake of food we had EmergenC and Wilderness Athlete re-hydration drink and supplement. I had berry flavor and that is the pink liquid you see in my water bottle on my pack. That stuff worked great and I guess it helped because we were way below the calorie intake we should have been consuming.
My partner and I did great out there and had a lot of energy.
You will have to make sure you bring calcium (Tums) and Excedrin. They say that calcium helps fight off altitude sickness so I would keep some tums with me and take one each morning.
Altitude sickness is another danger. I have not suffered from it yet. My partner didn't this time, but the last time he did and was sick as DOG the first day. The next day he was fine and stayed that way for the rest of the trip.
Altitude sickness is a real danger and can kill you. We found that starting off slow and getting acclimated helps a lot. There is a saying hunt high and sleep low. When you hunt and ascend they say it is best to descend and sleep lower to prevent it. If you or partner experiences it the only way to take care of it before it gets too bad is to descend to lower altitudes.
Great thread, and I may have missed it. But how did you guys plan on getting the meat back? Did you have a packer lined out? If not, how far were you from the truck?
great thread, pictures and story.
In terms of altitude sickness, we did not suffer from it even though we camped at 10,500 or better the whole trip even though we live at about 32'. We were told, NEVER sleep with your head pointed down. It must have helped.
OH and drink A LOT even though you are not thirsty. I took altitude pills for the first three days also.
Trevor earlier when I was talking about different types of hunts I said this.
Quote
Last year both my hunting partner and I came very close to scoring on big bulls. I have no doubt that we will do it this year. We found elk heaven, but if we had to pack out an elk on foot from there we were going to leave elk heaven for someone else and we were going to find someplace else to hunt, where we could arrange to get the elk out. My partner is 59 and I am 58. We packed in and out on foot 10 miles with heavy packs. We hunted between 3 to 6 miles everyday. When we packed out we were truly glad we didn't shoot an elk near the end of the hunt. If I remember right it took us about 16 hours to pack out. On the way out it was up and down and 10 miles in this area is like 24 miles along the Missouri Breaks. I have packed out elk, moose and mountain goat. Packing out a elk from here would have taken at least 3 or 4 days and doesn't count any time to sleep in between.
We are going back to elk heaven this year and I have locked in a packer to get the elk out on horse back. We also arranged for the packer to pack us and our gear in and out on horse back. This will add many more days of hard hunting on our trip. If I hadn't been able to arrange a packer we would have looked for a new elk heaven. I can't begin to express how monumental the effort would be to pack out on foot, at least for two sea level landlubbers. If you do decide to do it on foot you can consider you are only hunting one elk. Because as soon as someone scores the hunt is over for both of you and 3 or 4 days of very hard work will begin. Once you are done with packing out the last of the elk, you won't have the energy to go back or desire for a second elk. Believe me when I tell you.
Quote
Same situation here Gil. We found the elk, they were just not killable without loosing at least 1/2 of the meat. We watched elk feed in the same meadow across the ridge for three mornings. Even the hunters from Colorado told us "they weren't going there for an elk!" To get to them it was 1200' down and 900' up and 1 mile as the crow flies across. It was crazy steep. One morning we walked 2 1/2 miles to end up 900' down and 1/3 mile from the truck!
The last area we hunted, it would have still been one miserable 15-18 hour day to get the elk out. I may have left a little happy not to have killed. lol
Arranging for a packer is a must if I go back. I'm a 51 year old flat lander.
Oh ok, I was wondering how that was gonna work. My buddy and I shot one two years ago 6 miles back. We both train daily and are in our 20s. We didn't lose any meat, but spent the better part of two days getting elk and gear out. I burned my tag because we were too physically and emotionally drained. We parked at 9,400 and shot the bull at 11,500. Never again, never again.
We were in 10 miles as the crow flys. We brought in light cotton game bags. We were going to bone out the elk, put it in game bags and lay it on the snow packs. We would have covered it with snow and pine branches.
You are right though. My partner was concerned from the get go. I told him the least of our worries are getting the elk out. I said lets get one and worry about it then. I told you he was smarter than I was and him, my Dr and my wife think I am an idiot! I have worked hard to get that reputation and work hard at keeping it everyday!
Well, when we packed straight out with these heavy packs and it took us 16 hours trying to hot foot it, I changed my tune.
That is why I want to warn everyone about it up front so you can plan.
Anybody can do what we did. It is no big deal back packing in 10 miles and hunting in alpine terrain, staying remote for 11 days and getting yourself out in one piece. That is all good and fun.
GETTING A BIG BULL OUT IN SMALL PIECES IS A BIG DEAL. If you are going to do a deep back country hunt, plan on a packer, otherwise consider the other hunt I mentioned.
I know if we shot an elk we would have gotten it all out, but how long and at what price, that is the big question.
Fred the reason we do it is what you said, "they weren't going there for an elk". We had undisturbed elk, no hunters and the elk answered every bugle we threw at them.
At this camp I cow called in a monster herd bull to 20 yards. I pulled him and his harem and 2 satellite bulls in from a long way. I cut them off in this valley and they were right on the other side of this little knob. I called that bull in to 20 yards and drew him from a large harem. The two satellite bulls drew him back before I could get a shot off.
Now that is elk hunting and why we go that far in. It is the stuff that dreams are made of and memories that become dreams to enjoy over and over again.
Man I am getting fired up to go back. Yee ha! I can't wait.
How do you communicate with a packer when you have killed an elk, and are ready for his services? ...given the fact you are in remote areas??
Awesome! Thanks for sharing Gil.
Originally if we were able to arrange a packer, we were going to go out to call him. Then we thought we would get a radio phone. They work every where and are recommended in Cameron Haynes book.
What we found out in camp is this. My partner's cell phone can't keep a call up and breaks up when he calls my home in NJ. We live 19 miles apart. When you get high up in Colorado you get great reception. He had better reception calling home from this camp 10 miles into the wilderness area, than he would have calling home from 19 miles away at my house on his cell phone. I left my cell phone in the truck. I figured it would be extra dead weight. He brought his because he had to try to call his wife every other day. I forgot to tell you he is PWed.
That does bring up a good point in regard to communication. I am only bringing a cell phone in this year, but when I go it alone I may bring in a radio phone too. If you are alone you are screwed, so you have to make sure you can communicate in an emergency. My wife wants me to get the Spot, but I heard a lot of bad things about it so that isn't happening.
I suggest that if you want to do a hunt like this, research what will be best for you to ensure communication. Remember my reputation and do your homework.
Great thread Gil. Well written and chock full of details, keep it coming :D
Realy good stuff.
You are absolutely right Gil, my buddies had a 300" bull at 70 yards on the second to last day. He was convinced that a hot cow was waiting for him just below in the forest. It was all over but the packing, then a real huzzy came up to him and said "you ain't taking MY MAN". lol
I saw 7 elk in 5 days and I saw the least out of the group due to getting a cold and not hunting hard a large part of the time. My old lungs just couldn't take it and I certainly didn't want to ruin the hunt for my buddies.
Oh here is a hint, if you feel a cold coming on DO NOT take antihistamines at 10,500, you will get nose bleeds in two days and for a week afterwards.
great info Gil, thanks for sharing
This is a classic elk thread IMHO.
Another issue that you have to take into account is weather.
You read articles about hunts in magazines and usually they talk about the good stuff and show beautiful pictures like this. That white spec in the background is camp. I took that picture as we headed out to hunt. Only 3 or 4 miles to go.
(http://i696.photobucket.com/albums/vv324/distantmeadows/Colorado%202011/DSCN0117.jpg)
We had a lot of nice September days with blue skies, puffy white clouds and comfortable temperatures. But we also had weather. We had one day where it poured for 24 hours non stop, another day fog, we had snow and hail, we had high winds and we had lightning.
I have hunted in many places and I did a lot of hunting in the Maine Big Woods. In Maine the saying goes, "If you don't like the weather wait a minute and it will change".
In the alpine area the same thing holds true, except it changes FAST. One minute we had beautiful blue skies, we started to feel the wind pick up and before you knew it fog and snow. We hunted in this weather and this is the day we found elk heaven. It was cold this day and I wound up with frost bite on one of my toes. Boots are another story that will come up later.
(http://i696.photobucket.com/albums/vv324/distantmeadows/Colorado%202011/DSCN0104.jpg)
(http://i696.photobucket.com/albums/vv324/distantmeadows/Colorado%202011/DSCN0105.jpg)
All that white stuff is snow and not sun glare.
(http://i696.photobucket.com/albums/vv324/distantmeadows/Colorado%202011/DSCN0108.jpg)
(http://i696.photobucket.com/albums/vv324/distantmeadows/Colorado%202011/DSCN0106.jpg)
This is the next morning and the snow was gone.
(http://i696.photobucket.com/albums/vv324/distantmeadows/Colorado%202011/DSCN0109.jpg)
Another day we had 24 hours of rain. We shared a Tyvek tarp in the interest of cutting back on weight. Big mistake. We each had a 9' x 15'. I had to position my bivy on an angle and the foot of the bivy was exposed. The water drained off of the Tyvek tarp onto the foot of the bivy and soaked me, my sleeping bag and clothes. Another mistake learned the hard way.
(http://i696.photobucket.com/albums/vv324/distantmeadows/Colorado%202011/DSCN0094.jpg)
(http://i696.photobucket.com/albums/vv324/distantmeadows/Colorado%202011/DSCN0102.jpg)
Gil, you may want to check this out. We used a bunch of these in the mountains of Afghanistan. It isn't cheap, but worth their weight in gold. Do a two week rental.
http://www.satellitephonestore.com/iridium-satellite-phone-rental
Thanks for the pics.
Thanks Trevor this is what I meant when I said radio phone. We checked them out last year and we were going to rent them for two weeks.
Last year I had decided on a model to get but I forgot which it was. I probably have it written down.
Do you know the model you used overseas?
I chose the model by reviews and if it had extra batteries. Some required renting them too.
Next year I am going solo to the same spot. I will have one then.
Thanks
Gil
Gil, one area we hunted ZERO phone reception, second place FULL RECEPTION. You never know.
Our weather, well it rained, sleeted and/or snowed every day for 10 straight days. One day it rained sleeted AND snowed on us five times in a matter of 10 hours. IT takes mental fortitude to hunt the mountains, but IT'S WORTH IT!!!!
I can tell Fred your hunt made a big impression on you too. I hear the love in your voice.
When are you going back?
Gil;
Did you put grommets in that tyvek or just fold it and punch holes with pocket knife?
Thanks, Kelly
We learned a lot of lessons with that too Kelly.
We folded it over and put in grommets. We will be doing it differently this year. I am also going to try the Tykek tape on the folded edges and then put in plastic grommets.
We had heavy wet snow on the tarp and we had very high winds. We both live along the coast and experienced hurricanes. These winds were up to 50 mph. We knew they were high, but the weather band on the GPS worked that day and confirmed the wind speed. In 50 mph winds you think your house is going to blow away. We had the tarp a little loose when it was windy so that wouldn't happen.
After many days it started to rip at the grommets in places from the heavy snow and high winds. The biggest problem was my partner tripping over the lines, oh wait a minute that was me.
We always bring duct tape with us. It is a first aid kit and fix everything thing.
We found you don't need grommets at all. What we did in some spots where a grommet was pulled out, is use an old Boy Scout trick.
It works great and I think it will work better than the grommets. What you do is take a small stone about one or two inches wide and put it into a pocket at the edge of the Tyvek. You tie the line around the stone on the outside of the pocket. That held up great. I am undecided whether to just do that with the folded and taped sides versus the grommets.
Tyvek can be painted too and still remain water proof. I am going to camo mine this year. We buy ours on the auction site. I bought a new one already for this year. I bought a 9' x 15' again. it cost around $30 shipped. It is light too.
It costs a ton to buy a whole roll of it. If you have a contractor friend you may be able to finagle a piece from them.
I also had a small piece of tyvek as a ground cloth under my bivy.
I had a very good bivy, but there is no way I could have lasted in it for 11 days with the weather we had. The Tyvek saved the trip for us. Next year we are both bring in our own and have two separate little camps set up in one. At least I will stay dry this time.
QuoteOriginally posted by Gil Verwey:
I can tell Fred your hunt made a big impression on you too. I hear the love in your voice.
When are you going back?
I'll try and make it up there next year Gil. The mountains are calling me again. I guess it's like birthing a baby, the memory of the pain fades in time! :bigsmyl:
It was the hardest hunt AND the best hunt of my life all rolled into one.
Right now I am looking for a more "target rich" environment, like Missouri whitetails! I want to get one with a longbow BAD!
Last year one of my goals was to see a big horn sheep or mountain goat. This is something else in my bucket list.
I love big mountain hunting. I hunted mountain goats in North Western BC a long time ago. If I had the financial ability, I would have been a sheep hunting fanatic. If it was legal to hunt Dall Sheep or Stone Sheep on your own DIY, I would be going there every year.
For me the hunt is an adventure. I am driven to hunt and hunt hard, but I like to smell the roses too.
One of my goals was to see a goat or sheep. So one day I took a long trek from elk heaven to where there were sheep and goats. I hunted there and back, but that was my secondary goal this day.
I have said this in other threads here also, if you are so focused on hunting only and have tunnel vision you miss a whole lot. I feel it is like a guy tracking a big buck in the snow in the Maine Big Woods. He is so intent on looking down at the track and following it, that he doesn't realize he walked up on the buck at 40 yards and the buck is watching him. You have to look up and around you also or else you miss a lot of the experience.
For me the whole experience takes my breath away, not just holding anlters.
Here is where I took my little trek for the sheep and goats. I just enjoyed the day and took a little break. I glassed, ate lunch and relaxed here for about 5 hours. I am pretty sure I spotted a goat, but I couldn't confirm it because it vanished into one of the crevices.
(http://i696.photobucket.com/albums/vv324/distantmeadows/Colorado%202011/DSCN0118.jpg)
(http://i696.photobucket.com/albums/vv324/distantmeadows/Colorado%202011/DSCN0132.jpg)
(http://i696.photobucket.com/albums/vv324/distantmeadows/Colorado%202011/DSCN0131.jpg)
You are right Gil, for me it's all about smelling the roses along the way. Not wanting to hyjack the thread, but I hope you don't mind me adding a few of the pics from my trip.
Above 11,000 there sure are beautiful, almost spiritual places
(http://i1254.photobucket.com/albums/hh601/ftrahan/Picture259.jpg)
The other side of the finger ridge
(http://i1254.photobucket.com/albums/hh601/ftrahan/Picture255.jpg)
It's fun to look up.
(http://i1254.photobucket.com/albums/hh601/ftrahan/Picture242.jpg)
Sheep country
(http://i1254.photobucket.com/albums/hh601/ftrahan/Picture253.jpg)
Here comes the weather
(http://i1254.photobucket.com/albums/hh601/ftrahan/Picture246.jpg)
What's there not to love!
No problem Fred I love BIG mountains. That looks awful nice too. That is my kind of country.
My hunting partner just called, he is fired up too. I had him looking for my bugle tube. It was in his truck. Naturally he found his (which is the same one as mine). I knew I should have put my name on it!
Another good tip is put your name on your stuff!
I told him I was writing this so he will probably look at it now. I am so sorry I said nice things about him! Another lesson learned the hard way.
Terry anything nice I said about you is all lies!
Hey Gil...great stuff...keep it going! Making me really miss the mountains of the Northwest!
By the way, what kind of camera do you carry with you? Any suggestions along that line? If you already mentioned it...I don't remember!
Thanks again,
Patrick
Fred I am glad you posted those pictures. That gives me a good comparison to talk about another issue.
If you look at Fred's pictures you will see a lot of healthy green timber. If you find green timber you find elk.
Look at the pictures I posted. Most of the timber looks like sticks. That is because of the pine beetle kill in Colorado. You can not believe the devastation this little beetle has done to the timber out there. It covers large portions of Colorado.
You have to be weary of this because of where you are going to camp. There are so many dead trees it is hard to find a safe place to camp because of widow makers.
We chose our second camp and tried our best to stay clear of widow makers. One thing we neglected to think about is wind direction. If you are in area like this it is easy to determine the prevalent wind, because you will notice nearly all the trees fall in the same direction.
Well we (I chose this one) chose our camp and yep you guessed it, we set up in the wrong direction.
All the trees had fallen in the direction of the camp in the past. The night we had that heavy wind we thought about it then. We had a restless night that night too.
If you notice all the trees fell from right to left in this picture. We even used one we used to tie off some our Tyvek.
(http://i696.photobucket.com/albums/vv324/distantmeadows/Colorado%202011/DSCN0103.jpg)
This one is even better. You can see behind camp how this monster fell in the same direction and would be right on our camp! Isn't it cozy though?
(http://i696.photobucket.com/albums/vv324/distantmeadows/Colorado%202011/DSCN0101.jpg)
Be very careful setting up your camp in regard to widow makers, the prevailing wind and water. You don't want to flood your camp by being in the wrong spot in a downpour.
Patrick I had a Nikon Coolpics. I wouldn't recommend it though.
It takes batteries that have to be charged in a charger. It doesn't take that good of pictures either.
I have another cheap Camera I bought at Walmart while on the way to another hunt, because I left the Coolpic home. It takes better pictures and uses AA batteries. It is a Kodak easyshare C1450. This camera takes the best pictures I have ever taken. I think it was $39.
I am also going to bring the Sport Vu camera this year. I am hoping to catch an action money shot when I shoot my BIG bull. It has a remote to start and stop it too. It looks like a car remote to open your car door. I am going to attach the camera to the side of my hat.
WE did see quite a few elk Gil, but they outsmarted the newbies last year.
Oh, and the mule deer, OMGosh there were mule deer galore! Nothing spectacular but the numbers were crazy. We did manage to see a bachelor herd of 8 with a couple of 180-190ish deer. I had to control myself!
I had to post a few trad shots too.
This is my buddy crocodile. I love this two piece longbow. A two piece is very handy while back country hunting or any big game hunting for that matter.
(http://i696.photobucket.com/albums/vv324/distantmeadows/Colorado%202011/DSCN0100.jpg)
Here I have my bow in the camo sleeve in my Arrowmaster quiver. A two piece longbow, a two piece bow sock and Arrowmaster quiver are great to free up your hands to backpack or drag out a deer. You can probably do the same with a 3 piece also. I had many A&H bows and I bet they would fit fine also.
(http://i696.photobucket.com/albums/vv324/distantmeadows/Colorado%202011/DSCN0071.jpg)
It is going to sound corny, but when I hunt with a longbow I feel like I am hunting with a friend. Any other bow feels like a tool to me. Enough of that before I get sentimental and cry again.
(http://i696.photobucket.com/albums/vv324/distantmeadows/Colorado%202011/DSCN0107.jpg)
Gil have enjoyed reading your thread and your pics do bring back memories of some great country.
Think you will enjoy the Alaskan hunt next year. A drop along a remote river for moose and caribou, and the raft does the lions share of packing your gear and meat. Kodiak Island for deer is also a great remote hunt often with no other hunters to contend with.
Will look forward to your report and pics after the elk hunt!
Clothes! I always hunt in wool, unless I am hunting in hot areas like South Carolina or Georgia.
From my experience in Maine it is well known that wool can save your life. If it gets wet it still retains insulating value. Plus it is quiet and since it is made from natural fibers, I believe it blends in better and is less noticeable by wildlife.
Because of weight I left my wool clothes in the truck. I will not do that again.
Last year I had two very light rip stop nylon hiking pants (one I wore and one was packed), a long sleeve camo tee shirt (worn on the way in and on some warm days hunting), two pairs of underwear (one worn one packed), two regular tee shirts (One worn one packed), two pairs of wool and two pairs of silk socks (one worn and one packed), one sage colored sweat shirt, two duofold tops and one duofold bottom, a light down winter underware top, light gortex rain gear and my hunting hat and a trapper wool hat. That was it.
When you only bring in that small amount of clothes you have to launder them occasionally. I time it to where my partner has to sit up wind and still gags during dinner. That tells me it is time to wash the old undies.
I will show you later some of the light very useful backpacking equipment we have for a solar shower, kitchen sink for laundry, backpackers towel and face cloth. These items are small they each pack down to the size of you wallet or smaller. They are very light and sturdy. I feel they are worth the investment. It will make your stay more enjoyable. Last year we went in for 11 days and worked very hard. Hygiene is important, at least that is what my partner keeps telling me. My affectionate nickname in elk camp is Stinky!
Next year I am bringing in my KOM Trapper shirt and a pair of lighter green wool Malone pants. Instead of the KOM trapper I may bring in one of Ron LaClaire's long hunting wool shirts. I have one of those also.
Another item I always feel is essential for me to bring is the turtle neck duofold tops. These are very warm and help cushion your neck from the straps on packs, quivers and bino straps.
Thanks Stu, for our first DIY Alaska hunt we are going to do a less expensive hunt, like we are used to doing. We always drive to where we hunt and carry our equipment this way.
Since we have to fly to Alaska we are packing our equipment and shipping it to a friend.
Our first hunt will be along the Tote Road. It is archery only there for 5 miles from the pipeline. We are going to rent or borrow a 4x4. We plan on backpacking in from the tote road quite a ways in. If by the time we are ready to go we don't find we will have good hunting along the Tote road, we have a connection to a good bush pilot that will fly us in.
I always wanted to do the float trip for moose. I will do that too, but not for the first time. Jay Massey hooked me on that idea too. I read his book 5 times. I bought all of his books from him as they came out back then.
Hey Gil, ever thought of writing a book!
Never Fred!
The only reason I am writing this, is not to talk about my adventures, but to inspire others to make some of their own.
The best thing I ever did was meet up with my hunting partner. We both had the same dreams of this type of hunting and together we started to do these types of hunts. Each year they got more and more remote for longer periods of time.
He introduced me into DIY camping hunting trips.
There are so many people out there that feel like us and would love to do this, but are apprehensive about trying it.
This is not magic or rocket science. I am 58 and my partner is 59. I told you my reputation and if a 58 year old idiot like me can do this anybody can. It is not hard. It is not that expensive. I will cover the costs later too.
If I pass anything along in this thread it is this, you can live this adventure yourself right in your home state hunting your local big game animals or small game for that matter.
The best example I can give of this is the Fred Bear video The Oldest Game. Here Fred and Charlie Kroll go an a short backpack weekend whitetail hunt in Pennsylvania. They camp by a stream not far from the road. They set up a canvas lean-to built by Fred. Watch that video and it explains it better than I can, just by watching. You can even turn the sound off and still see what I mean.
This is the type of hunting I am professing. This is the type of hunting that was the norm back then too.
I am saying to just give yourself the gift of time to hunt and enjoy the whole experience. For me the whole experience is staying out living in the woods while I hunt, even if it is for one night.
I would enjoy the following more than running out after work, scrambling to my stand for a few hours and shooting a big buck. That is great stuff too.
But I would enjoy going Friday night after work to a State WMA and camp and BS around the campfire. Make breakfast the next day. Take my bow and go squirrel hunting. Stay out all day, have lunch and relax in the woods. Maybe I will bring my reactor stove and take a break and have a nice hot cup of tea or hot chocolate. Maybe instead of packing a sandwich I may bring a delicious Mountain House dinner and cook it up. Come back at dark. Meet up with my friends around a camp fire and have dinner. Maybe have a sun downer or two. Sit by the campfire and BS. If you haven't noticed I am very good at BS. I believe I have been told I have a honorary PHd in BS! Go to bed, have a nice breakfast and break camp to head home early Sunday.
You will feel refreshed and recharge your batteries. You will feel more like you hunted than ever before. You will feel like you went on a 10 mile back country elk hunt in Colorado. You will be hooked and look forward to squirrel season.
Many times we sit around and say, "man I would love to do that". Then we don't, because we think to hunt like that you have to be in an exotic far off spot with premiere game animals.
I am saying you can do the same thing we did around the block hunting squirrels, but we chose not to. The only difference between the back country elk hunt I am talking about versus the weekend squirrel hunt is time and distance. Think about that.
I am not trying to tell anyone that they need to do a deep back country hunt for fulfillment. It is a rewarding hunt of a lifetime that will change you forever. I am trying to say you can add this same type of adventure to squirrel hunting.
I bet where you live there are mountains, you get rain storms, snow, lighting and wind during hunting season. You can still hunt squirrels and even call them in with a call like elk. You can use the same equipment to backpack in to hunt squirrels that you use to hunt elk. You can have all of the experiences hunting squirrels that you can hunting elk, if you don't have the time or money for the elk hunt. I even bet that if you hunted squirrels you would have beautiful scenery too like the fall leaves changing colors.
So I say why aren't you doing that? If you wait to do some exotic long distance hunt somewhere you will have missed out on a lot of rewarding local adventures close to home. If you never get to do the elk hunt, at least you will have experienced it for other game animals. Dreaming of doing it for elk, never going and missing out on the enjoyment doing it close to home would be a shame. Sometime we don't see the forest for the tress.
This is not for everybody. A lot of people like to hunt out of a car or use an outfitter and are pressed for time. Some people love hunting and hate camping. I am not opposed to any of it. To each his own. Each has its own merits.
I am just saying that for those of you that want to do the remote elk hunt you don't have to wait, you can do it squirrel hunting and can gain experience for the trip you do make out elk hunting.
What is stopping you?
If you want to do a 10 mile elk hunt you start by taking one step at a time. Get some experience locally. You may wind up saying heck with the elk I love squirrel hunting.
There are a couple of old saying I know and use.
One is a question, "Can an ant eat an elephant"? The answer is, "Yes if given enough time".
Another is, "How does a man eat a cow"? The answer is, "One hamburger at a time".
Give yourself the gift of time and do it one hamburger (or step) at a time.
On to this years hunt. Colorado 2012 at Elk Heaven
We leave NJ on either the night of Wednesday September 5 or the morning of Thursday September 6. We will arrive sometime on Friday September 7. I have a hotel room booked for the the night of September 7.
Saturday September 8 we meet our packer and head in on horseback to Elk Heaven. We will set up camp sometime in the afternoon and hopefully have some time to hunt. Setting up the camp we have will take no more than 20 minutes.
Sunday September 9 is our first full day to hunt. This will give us 12 full days of hunting from September 8 through September 20.
Friday September 21 we pack out on horseback. I arranged a hotel room for the night of September 21. Saturday we will enjoy some sights and have nice meal. We will probably head out mid or late morning for NJ.
We will arrive back in NJ on September 23. I have Monday off to unpack and relax before I go back to work on September 25.
Then I have to wait for 2013 to roll around to do it again solo.
The expenses aren't much except for gas. For us in 4x4 pickup the gas and tolls winds up being around $700 a piece. The license is $500. Two night in the hotel is around $130 for both of us not a piece. The outfitter is $600 a piece to bring us in and out. If we shoot an elk and need it packed out it is another $500.
Well I tried to give you and idea of what it is like doing a DIY elk hunt during the height of the rut. Back country is the way to go if you have a packer to get the elk out. If not, base camp in a place like I described earlier in Montana is an alternative. If you are going to do a base camp there are few ideas I can pass on that will help.
Well here is a toast to you and your next adventure. I will let you know how we do this year. If we can do this anybody can do this. Good luck this year with your adventures.
(http://i696.photobucket.com/albums/vv324/distantmeadows/Colorado%202011/DSCN0101.jpg)
I am planning Colorado 2013 already and have spoken to our packer. I am going solo in 2013 and since I will have to drive alone, I may ship my equipment to the packer, fly into Colorado and rent a car. This should give me two extra days of hunting making it 14 full days to hunt. This will be a good dry run for Alaska in 2014.
I anticipate that I will probably score the first morning in 2013, since I will be leaving my deer and elk repellent home, that being my hunting partner. Boy I hope he reads this now.
You are right Gil. CO public land for elk is a great deal and you can make it as hard or as easy as you want. A week In the mountains and you will field you got your money's worth either way
Very inspirational, Gil! I appreciate your story/advice/pics as it is all enlightening and telling. Your thread is very timely for me as I have been thinking/struggling about changing my hunting areas and habits! I feel like going on this adventure in Ohio, the one Charlie has invited us on. Life is short and I want to make more of my time in the outdoors and especially with my recurve. Thanks again and good luck to you!
Kenny :bigsmyl:
This is an awesome post, Gil. We used to do backpack hunts in Utah, and you've brought back some fond memories of those hunts. We tend to do base camp trips now, but both of us agree that the back pack hunts were some of our most enjoyable adventures. Thank you for this post.
This is an inspiration to all that have read this. If it doesn't make you long to do an elk hunt, you are hopeless. Although I started hunting Colorado in 1965, I have never done a backpack hunt. It sounds very romantic and I wold love to try it, but my physical ability and age tell me otherwise. I am already in camp here in the San Juans and will be here until after elk season but my hunts will all be from a main camp. I am a little envious of you backpackers though.
So awesome Gil! That si right up my ally...you may have crated a monster.lol
My brother has been to the mountains of colorado a couple times and we ahve been talking about this for a while.
I;m gonna make sure he redas this!
Thanks
Real good thread full of advice. Good luck and God Bless
Thanks I am glad you found some good stuff here.
As I get this years hunt organized I will post other pictures of equipment and go over what we use and some tips for using some of it, especially the water filters.
Water is another important part of the back country experience and I will give you a few tips that saved us a lot time.
There will be more to come as we move to 2012 Elk heaven. The preparation is part of the fun.
Whether you back pack or base camp, if you go back a few posts and read what my purpose is for this thread, you are doing what I profess. It doesn't matter whether you are elk hunting or squirrel hunting or if you do it for one day or 20 days.
As I go through all of this you will see just how simple it is to do and how little equipment you need to do it.
You will also see that this is no harder to do than the full day hunts you currently do for other types of hunting.
If you hunt deer like me most of the time, I drive to my spot and park, I hike into my hunting area, I hunt all day and I head back to my truck at the end of the day. I drive home and do it again the next day. This hunting is no different than back country elk hunting.
Instead of driving to my spot and parking, I walk to my spot and set up camp. I hike into my hunting area and hunt all day and at the end of the day I head back to my camp instead of heading back to my truck. The difference is instead of heading back home to sleep, I am home when I get back to camp. It is that simple.
In big mountains it is pretty easy to navigate and get around. Physically it is tough, but you can prepare for it and the longer you are out there the easier it gets.
Great job Gil. Can't wait to see the big bull (or I would be happy with a cow!) at the end of all the preparation.
I'm not gonna be able to get this out of my head!Great read Gil,I'll be looking for more to come.Thanks
Gil, Great pics. Thanks for the share. Looks to have been a great trip.Love to the great Elk.
Looking forward to the next installment, great thread!
Hey Gil, nice job, well done, very inspirational. I'd like to add a couple observations, hope you don't mind.
First and foremost, give that partner of yours a big kiss :bigsmyl: , I've partnered-up with a couple different guys for DIY elk hunts over the years and... well let's just say I'd rather solo than go through that again. Not that I would, I actually ended up with The best elk-hunting partner a guy could ask for, my son. And he just happens to live in great elk area in WY. I guess you could say I cloned my partner. ha
Secondly, I personally would not like your shelter. My last hunt in CO in 08 would have been a disaster, we had a 3 day stretch of constant rain, snow,sleet and high winds. We had wall tents, we packed in with beasts of burden, but no cots or wood stoves and nothing to read. I alternated my time laying in my bag and standing around a fire, getting soaked on one side and smoked on the other! If I were to do a backpack/horsepack I would look into getting a lightweight tipi w/woodstove. Just my .02 Bro
Tough gettin an "atta boy" outta fellow New Joisians
I understand Tad but we made out OK in weather.
We had heavy winds, heavy snow and heavy rain. When you backpack in you don't have much choice.
We hunted in all of the weather except for the heavy rains. If I were gun hunting I would have hunted in them too, but bow hunting and the need for a blood trail cancels that idea for me.
This year I already spoke to the packer and I may bring in my Kifaru tipi and stove. That whole setup is only around 11 pounds I think. That all depends on whether we can have a fire by then. Right now there is a fire ban due to the wildfires they had this year. Hopefully it will be lifted by then.
If we can't have a fire I am going to go the same way, since once we get there, elk heaven may wind up not being what is was last year, so we will be hot footing it with packs again, once we get dropped off. If we have to we will travel another 10 miles. We will be OK with packer doing that if we get an elk, we have to just make sure we pack it to the area the packer is allowed to come into.
As far as my partner is concerned, we get along great out there. He only called me obnoxious once on that trip. I must be slipping.
As far as kissing him he might have something to say about that. I have tried on many trips with him.
Great job! Someday after I retire from teaching I might get to do a hunt like that. I will definitely need to hire a packer though. Till then local hunts. Only 2 more years until I can apply for another moose permit.
You don't need a hunt like this since you live in Maine. Before we did this we would go to Maine for one or two weeks in November deer hunting. We would go in at Millinoket Maine and drive into timber company land up to Spider Lake. Moose Mountain is another home away from home. We will be going back there too. I shot a bear at Narrow Pond.
When I retire I will be doing elk or moose in September and BIG Maine whitetail in November. I should say if I can ever retire.
Gil,
Thanks for such a great Thread! It made me remember how great elk hunting in the west is. I think you should consider a writing a book.
Charlie
Awsome thread Gil, and very inspirational for me. Ive been dreaming of this type of hunt for serveral years now. Keep us posted, Ill be hanging on every word. Shane
Super thread Gil! I've done several DIY elk hunts and loved everyone.The first one was when I paid $25 for a NR tag. I got caught in a terrible storm above timberline with a friend one time and there was no time to get off the plateau we were on, so we set up a two man tent. What a night!Broke fiberglas poles on a good tent. Also, went on one with a less than enjoyable friend. Pick your hunting partners carefully! Thanks again for a great thread!
Great thread, thanks for sharing your experiences,advice and pics.
Well I just got back from REI to get my food and some other small stuff. I am set and will start setting up my gear and packing my pack tomorrow.
I will be hiking a couple of miles everyday starting tomorrow with the full pack. I need to get my legs, back, shoulders, heart and lungs in shape again.
Monday night I start the gym for the stair stepper everyday from now until I leave.
Before I pack everything up I will take some pictures of the gear and tell you what worked and didn't work. I found some neat little things that were very useful.
I have also settled on the bow, arrow and broadhead I will be taking with me.
Today I was shooting my usual crocodile go to bow and the other bow I wanted to take. I am going with a Howard Hill Big 5 takedown 70" 70# @ 27, tapered Surewood arrows and Abowyer Brown Bear heads. This year crocodile stays home.
I also have horses but haven't ridden in a long time. I will be getting back in the saddle again, so when I go out there I don't look like a jerk on horseback. I am hoping my hunting partner does though. Ha! I am going to tell him my insurance company said I can not let anyone ride my horses or else they will drop me!
As soon as I get my equipment laid out and sorted out I will post with that information.
Thanks for the comments about the post. I hope it is going to be helpful for you in the future.
Gil
This is going to get even better.
70#s at 27" Gil??? YOU DA MAN!
Gil, enjoying your experiences and adventures a ton! Keep up the good work!
Super thread Gil,thanks so much for starting it! :clapper:
Thanks Gil, the journey is truly the destination especially with hunts such as this. Your story here really highlights what a hunt can be.
Awesome thread Gil. You have inspired me to start doing some local camping and hunting. I would love to do an elk hunt but with my health I doubt that will ever happen. Thanks so much for the stories and pics.
You said you would have stayed 30 days if you had the food. Have you ever thought about having a plane or helecopter drop shot food in. I hope I don't sound dumb cause I know nothing about elk hunting..........yet.
When I retire, if I can arrange the packer, I will stay out longer. I will stay the whole month of September. Elk season will have been over, but I can fish the last week and search for sheep and goats with a camera. I can also grouse hunt with the bow. With a packer I can bring in extra food and make a cache.
I have hunted out west and way up north west and September is one of the most beautiful times to be in the wilderness. Any remote area that has tall pointed trees and the rut is in September is my kind area. Both moose and elk rut in September.
I can't wait to retire.
Right now I still work full time and will retire probably in four years when I am 62.
Both my hunting partner and I were very sorry to have to leave after 11 days. I can only stay away from work so long for now.
I am going this year.. FINALLY! I put it off for way too long. I have dreamed of doing a back pack hunt for years and years. You just have to get up and go. Set your mind to it, plan, save, etc.. it will come together.
This thread is perfectly timed!
Jim you will have a blast. Take your time and savor the whole experience. If you get an elk it is icing on the cake. If you don't, who cares.
If this is your first time it may wind up being a scouting trip and learning experience.
When you are out there relax and enjoy every minute of it. It is not stressful at all unless you make it that way.
Remember this isn't a competition it is a labor of love, something you have waited for, for a long time.
I look forward to your pictures and tales of adventure too.
I will start tomorrow with more pictures of equipment as I prepare for my hunt. I will describe what worked and what didn't work so well.
We might as well start off with sleeping quarters.
I used a Outdoor Research bivy. The bivy is light but it is confined. I also found that you get a lot of condensation inside. That may not happen to you since I am full of hot air.
I would put some of my clothes in the foot of my sleeping bag and used other clothes as my pillow. This about all you can put inside.
(http://i696.photobucket.com/albums/vv324/distantmeadows/Colorado%202011/DSCN0108.jpg)
My partner used my one man Eureka tent. This tent was also light but did not pack down into as small a package as my bivy. It had more room and less condensation. You could also keep much of your gear inside. I had to leave a lot of gear exposed under the tarp.
(http://i696.photobucket.com/albums/vv324/distantmeadows/Colorado%202011/DSCN0109.jpg)
I like either one. The bivy is a little lighter and packs down into a small package. I will probably continue to use my bivy though. Especially since I didn't put my name on my tent and can't find it. Hmmm I wonder where that went?
The Tyvek tarp was a life saver. You never know what type of weather you will get out there. With the weather we had I would have been in trouble with just my bivy. I think the tent also would have been less comfortable. It also gave us a weather proof area to store our gear and if we each brought our own we would have had much more comfortable living space.
I had a self inflating pad while my partner had a foam pad. The self inflating pad compacts nicely and is comfortable. If it pops you will be sleeping with no padding. I bought a light weight foam pad that packs down small too. I am going to try that before I go and may take that one instead. Since we are going in on horseback I may even bring both. The pad is also comfortable but not as much as the self inflating. It also doesn't pack as well.
My bivy and sleeping pad are packed into the black mesh pocket on my pack. The black stuff sack holds my bivy while the green has my sleeping pad. My sleeping bag may also in the mesh bag but behind the other bags or I may have put it in the fanny pack with my cooking supplies. It packs down to a smaller bag and I stored in both places during this trip.
(http://i696.photobucket.com/albums/vv324/distantmeadows/Colorado%202011/DSCN0071.jpg)
You can see my partner's sleeping pad - a mile away! I am pretty sure the blue bag attached to his pack is his sleeping bag. He also had a light down bag but it was heavier than the Marmot Helium and didn't pack down into as small a footprint.
(http://i696.photobucket.com/albums/vv324/distantmeadows/Colorado%202011/DSCN0074.jpg)
I am 6' but I bought the extra tall Marmot Helium down sleeping back. It fits people up to 6'6". I bought this one because I like room in my sleeping bag and I can keep some of my clothes in it to keep them warm and dry for the morning. I also had to get the longer bag because I know my partner may need to borrow it one day - and yes I made sure to put my name in it! Ha!
This bag is warm to very cold temperatures and packs down to a very small package.
The orange pad you see is my self inflating pad. You can really see now how it packs down small compared to how you see it here.
(http://i696.photobucket.com/albums/vv324/distantmeadows/Colorado%202011/DSCN0094.jpg)
I also have the marmot helium and that same air mat. Been considering going with a tarp and bivy sack instead of a tent. I have the MSR hubba 1 man tent. I think it weighs 3.5 lbs with poles.
I would stick with what you have. I would still get the Tyvek though.
I bought and will continue to use the bivy, but when I go solo, I want to actually hunt with my camp on my back. When I do that I will have a smaller piece of tyvek too.
Gil, On the Tyvek, you can buy a full roll of 9' x 100'for about $120-$130. Split it between you and have enough for several years.
Great Post and lots of good info. We're going with an outfitter this year on private land in Colorado - 53 days until we leave, but who's counting?
I have some Tyvek left over on a roll and I was thinking about tossing it last week. Guess I'll keep it now for my next adventure.
What kind of pack are you using?
Good luck on your hunt!
Good timing Brian because that was next.
I don't think you have to spend a arm and a leg on a pack. They are all pretty comfortable. I can't see spending $600 to save 2 or 3 pounds like some of the real light packs. I find the packs that are one big bag inconvenient and don't like them. If you were to get one you have to bring in a extra day pack or fanny pack so what ever you save on weight in the pack is lost. I personally think is all marketing BS.
If you are going to go in for 3 to 5 days you can keep you pack light, but if you go extended like we do, you can't. We go in 11 days or more so no matter what we do our packs are going to be heavy. Most people don't go in that long from what I read.
My pack is the Dwight Schuh Mega pack. It is an older one. It is 5600 counting all the pockets and mesh bag. I had a Badlands 4500 but sold it before I could use it and decided to go with this pack. I didn't like it.
My partner used a Badlands 4500 last year and this year he is using a Cabelas Alaska Outfitter pack external metal frame. He didn't like the Badlands either.
The reason neither of us like that pack is that you can't organize anything in it. It all gets shoved into the same pack. It has a couple of pockets but they open from outside and are inside the pack. It was hard to get anything in them or out of them. He actually broke a zipper trying to unzip it.
The weight of my pack is close to the Badlands but it is much more versatile and can actually hold more. The pack system has a neat system of hooking the packs to the frame. I unhooked my pack and used it as a day pack while my partner used the other pack on mine as a fanny pack. The fanny pack on the Badlands is useless and he couldn't use it.
My pack and now the pack my partner is going to use this year have external frames so that in the event we shoot a elk we will be able to lash large quarters to the packs.
This is mine.
(http://i696.photobucket.com/albums/vv324/distantmeadows/Colorado%202011/DSCN0073.jpg)
(http://i696.photobucket.com/albums/vv324/distantmeadows/Colorado%202011/DSCN0071.jpg)
(http://i696.photobucket.com/albums/vv324/distantmeadows/Colorado%202011/DSCN0035.jpg)
Here I took the one pack off for a day pack.
(http://i696.photobucket.com/albums/vv324/distantmeadows/Colorado%202011/DSCN0066.jpg)
This is the badlands.
(http://i696.photobucket.com/albums/vv324/distantmeadows/Colorado%202011/DSCN0016.jpg)
:campfire:
Great thread Gil :thumbsup:
This should be saved in the "how-to" forum.
Granted, everyone may not do it the same way, but your covering a lot of bases and making people think about it.
Eric
My goal Eric when I am done with this, is to show everyone how easy it is to do. And it is easy!
I am not being facetious when I say if I can do it anybody can. Anybody can do this, because it isn't much different than what we already do.
There is no secret to doing this. You don't have to be a guide or outfitter to do it.
I hope when I am done and everybody sees the equipment and how I use it, they will realize there isn't much to it.
It doesn't take a lot of equipment and you don't have to go out and buy the best of everything. I think the best, is just the best marketing.
That pack I use I bought used here on Tradgang. I bought the Badlands new from Cabealas for a lot more and found it wasn't as good (for me) as the lesser expensive used one I bought.
Like you say, there are many ways of doing this. One size doesn't fit all. Just like with bows there are all kinds. But if you see what I am doing and what I am using to do it, I think everyone will realize that this stuff is easy to do. It is just hunting and instead of going to your truck you go to your camp. Then just pick the flavor of equipment you want to use and the way you want to use it.
The great thing about a DIY is DO IT YOURSELF. You go at it the way you want for how long or how far you want to do it. The important thing is to do it.
I think the two things I would splurge on is a very good, light, warm, down sleeping bag (around $300). I would also get a good bivy or reasonable tent (between $150 and $250). Even the best of these are not that expensive.
I sure wouldn't go out and buy a $600 pack. I also wouldn't buy a $1,800 pair of optics. I know some guys are going to jump on me for that statement, but I have two pairs of Zeiss and have looked through Swavorski and Leica. For what we do and the amount of time we do it, my Bushnell Legend Ultra HD 10x42 were great. They were very clear with a wide field of view and did not fog in 11 days of hunting in all kinds of weather.
Just beacuse something is expensive doesn't make it good or us better.
We can stay within a low budget and do as well as anyone else with high end equipment. The equipment will not make you a better hunter no matter what the marketing tells us.
Great thread Gil ! I'm like you, tight as a banjo string. I get just as much pleasure out of saving bucks on gear and hunts as I do taking the animals.
I'm allways proud of myself when i can hunt somewhere for a week, at just the cost of gas getting there. I never count food, because i have to eat no matter where i am. KEEP THIS THREAD ALIVE!
I use a Dwight Schuh pack also. I did modify it a bit by having my wife sew me a second bladder pocket into it. I find that with only one bladder I have to go to water more often than I want to. That said... I'm usually hunting from camp and use the main pack, with both bladders. It is comfortable and gives me plenty of room.
I'm leaving on August 17th for Colorado... can't wait! Love your thread Gil. By the way... I'm 58 too. I've had arthroscopic knee surgery and currently have a ruptured disc. Exercise, weight control and stubborness allow me to do this. If I can... anyone can!
Great thread.
Wayne that is a good idea. I am going to over water next. I think I may do the same thing. You will see why later today.
At 58 we have our battle scars but still don't break like a cheap whiskey bottle yet. I bet you are like me and we still bounce pretty good yet.
I had a heart attack dragging out a 8 point buck (it was a nice fat little buck though), a head on car accident at 55 mph which left me with broken bones, 3 herniated cervical disks and 4 herniated thoracic disks.
When I bite the big one it will be packing in with a 70# pack or packing out with 100# of elk meat. Until then I am going to keep chugging. It confirms again that anybody can do this, even old bucks or does for that matter, with battle scars.
Water.
You need to drink a lot of water while you are out there to keep you hydrated.
You will also use water to cook all of your meals, except probably lunch.
We used Mountain House dinners. To me and my partner they were delicious. All you do is open the bag and take out the the little package that keeps it fresh. You heat up about a cup of water and pour it in the bag. Stir it up and seal the zip lock on the bag. Let it stand around 8 minutes and you have a great meal at the end of the day. We didn't find one meal we didn't like. If I could find the chef that came up with the recipes I would marry HIM or HER!
In the morning we heated water for oatmeal or a Mountain House breakfast. I didn't care for the breakfasts but my partner loved them. I traded the few I had to him for oatmeal.
I used the Wilderness Athlete Re Hydrate mix to put in my drinking water after it was filtered. It tastes great and has nutrients to help you on these trips. We also used EmergenC for the same purpose. My partner just had EmergenC. You can buy EmergenC anywhere, while Wilderness athlete you have to buy over the Internet. I had extra boxes of Wilderness Athlete with a lot of packets in each one, but he decided to leave the ones I gave him in the truck. Once he tasted mine in the field, he decided he loved them and guess what happened next. He already ordered his own for this years trip.
In addition to drinking water we carried in our packs while hunting we also made tea, coffee and hot chocolate during the trip.
There are many sources of water in the wilderness, but you can't drink directly from them. You need a water filter.
I had a good MSR hand pump filter while my partner brought the Platypus Gravityworks camp filter.
The hand pump takes a lot of time and effort. It also clogs fast. This year I am leaving that home and bringing in a second Gravityworks. When you stay out as long as we do you have to filter a lot of water. Once the filters in these purifiers clog they have to be back flushed to be able to clear them to get enough water in a reasonable amount of time.
The Gavityworks has two water bags with a hose and filter in between. It holds and filters a lot of water. You fill the top bag and the water filters down into the bottom bag. It is just as the name implies, you let gravity do the work.
These filters also clog. You would be amazed at how much stuff is in the clearest water. We innovated while we were out there. We had paper coffee filters. We cut the bottom off a small water bottle we had. My partner brought a large empty plastic container, you saw on his pack in earlier pictures. When he had that strapped to his pack, I said the same thing you probably were thinking, "what the heck are you going to do with that".
This is what we did to help the filter. Instead of just scooping water into the top bag we used the empty jug to get water. My partner held the bag open with the cut water bottle as a funnel and we put a paper coffee filter inside. We poured the water through the filter. This saved us from having to back flush the filter as much as we would have had to do. You can't believe the microscopic volume of stuff in the clear water. It would clog the paper filter right before our eyes where water wouldn't go through anymore and you couldn't see a spec of anything on the filter. When I was hunting in North West BC our water was right out of anywhere it pooled. Our water bladder was a collapsible cup. Those days are gone. This year I am bringing a small coffee screen filter with some paper coffee filters.
We are both bringing in the Gravityworks and my partner bought an extra filter for it too. I guess you can tell how much we hate to back flush filters.
Instead of filters you can use Iodine pills or Potable Aqua. You add these to water let it stand for a while then drink. They leave an aftertaste in the water, but if you add a supplement it may mask the taste. I brought Iodine pills as a backup in the event of an emergency.
Since you have to heat water you need a stove. There are all kinds out there. I did alot of research and got the Reactor stove. This stove boils water so fast you can't get bored watching it. You no sooner start it and the water boils very quickly. That saves on fuel as far as I am concerned. It was also good in high altitude and in the wind. It is almost like a catalytic stove and won't blow out when the pot is on top. It comes with a pot that stores it and one large MSR gas can. My partner had a very light MSR backpacking stove. It worked great in high altitude and didn't blow out much, but it had to be a little shielded from the wind. It boiled water fast but not nearly as fast as the reactor. I brought in 3 MSR fuel canisters. I used all three during the trip. There was some left in the third one. We used my stove most of the time because it boiled water so fast. When I go it alone I am bringing in my reactor and the very light MSR stove as a backup.
Gil- I hear ya about being stupid in lightning. lol. When I backpacked with NOLS for a month in the backcountry it rained every. dang. day. And they would tell us go "get in the lightning position" they wanted you away from trees. After 2 days of that crap I said screw this and always got under the biggest, driest tree I could find. I figured if I'm gonna get hit by lightning I'm gonna at least be dry.
Gil,
do you pack in a stove, or do you just use a camp fire? Also what do you use to boil water and eat out of?
Thanks
Charlie
Great stuff Gill.
Charlie I discussed the stove we used in the above thread. I used the Reactor stove and my partner used a light MSR backpacking stove.
Gil
Navigation.
This is no different than what you currently do. I use a compass and topo but I also use a GPS. Always trust your compass.
If you use a GPS always bring a compass with you. Before you use your GPS make sure it is calibrated by double checking it against your compass. I mentioned earlier what happened to us with the GPS. If it isn't in tune with the compass re-calibrate it.
Elk Calls. I could never ever use a mouth call until last year. I use the Woods Wise wooden cow call. Last year I bought a 3 piece combo set of mouth calls from Primos. They have a little plastic cup on top which lines them up in your mouth. These were the only mouth calls I have ever been able to use to bugle. I used a young bull call call and got a reply every time I blew it. I was more excited finally being able to bugle with a mouth call and get an answer than shooting a bull elk. I was going to let my partner do the hunting while I did the calling. I know now how turkey hunters feel when they call in a big tom.
I just ordered another pack. They are the Primos Elk 3-Pak Model 1650 Sonic Dome Series. Just like I said that if I can do this back country elk hunt anyone can, well if I can get a bugle out with these calls a possum can do it. I am that bad at it.
When I get all my equipment lined up I will take some pictures and show you that there isn't much to it.
I hope I was able to show you that this isn't hard and anyone that can hunt the whole day whitetail hunting can do this. It is no different from what you already do, except you don't have to drive home. Just like all game animals elk are hard to hunt. Imagine what whitetail hunting would be if bucks screamed here I am and I am a monster.
Just like game animals, when you go to the back country and stick around in it, you need food, shelter and water. You also have to navigate around. We are lucky, we have an advantage over the game we seek, because we can make our own food, shelter and water. We also have big brother in the sky guiding us and our GPS and little brother (compass) in our pocket.
If I can do this any of you can do this, and I do mean any. If your health isn't that good go to a area with flatter terrain, don't go in as far, get someone to help pack out game. If you can't make it out west for elk go whitetail hunting and camp, if you can't go whitetail hunting go do a squirrel\\camping expedition. It is all fun and great stuff.
I said it several times throughout this thread, give yourself the gift of time and take it one step at a time. You will be glad you did.
You will have added additional adventure in your hunting and be able to immerse yourself in it more. This will heighten the experience to where a weekend will feel like a whole season in regard to the rewards.
As I come up with stuff preparing for this hunt I will add it here from time to time and when I get back I will post the pictures and story. If you can't do 2012, maybe when I get back I will fire you up for 2013 or 2014.
Good luck
Gil
:thumbsup: :clapper:
Thanks Gil,
I must have missed your post on the stoves, I will look the thread over again.
You have given me back country fever!
Charlie it is the last paragraph in the water post.
I hope I did give you the fever. Life is short, back country is fun.
Gil:
Can't say enough good things about this thread. 60 pounds in 6 months is amazing weight loss. My hat is off to you my man. It is truly amazing what we can accomplish when we set our minds to it. Thanks for sharing. I'll anxiously await additional comments and pictures. God Bless and "Keep'Um Sharp". :thumbsup:
:thumbsup:
I keep checking back...lots of good info! :thumbsup:
I just spent the last 1.5-2hrs catching up on this one. Nice job Gil.
Need to read through this again...perhaps a dream can come true!
Thanks Gil.
Thanks guys.
I am waiting for a few items to arrive and then I will take pictures and describe the equipment I used. Also what we are doing to plan this years hunt. I have a contract with the outfitter and I am ready to sign it and ship it out.
Yesterday my hunting partner stopped by and he is fired up too.
This year I will be going in a little heavier since we have an outfitter packing us in on horseback. I will be bringing extra clothes and food. I will show what I bring when packing in and then what I am bringing in this year. This is to just give you an idea of equipment. Mine worked great but like everything else there are alternate makes and models.
What we do is a little different than what some do. We don't hunt with our camp on our back all the time. We backpack into the area we intend to hunt. We pitch camp and hunt from that camp for several days. If that area doesn't pan out we move to preplanned alternate areas.
In the next few days I will have everything ready to go and will pick up the thread again.
awesome thread....thanks for sharing so far and look forward to more!
Awesome post! Altitude is a killer, and i am in pretty good shape for being 64. When my knee heals from surgery last week i hope to out doing cardio. We live at 5000 feet and hunt at 9000 .
I did a DIY griz hunt in Ak and had a moose tag. Got up on a smallish bull, and declined. It would have been like taking out a VW a piece at a time over muskeg.
DIY hunts are made by a partner that is compatible. Miserable when your best friend turns....
I am very lucky in regard to a hunting partner. He genuinely is happier to see a hunter partner score than himself. He gets more excited when a hunting partner scores and he doesn't too. Plus he is a great woodsman and asset in camp. We both believe in letting the other guy hunt the way they want do what ever they want on these trips and we are each there to fully enjoy the experience. We both enjoy the outdoor experience and being there so hunting is just an added bonus.
If something happened to him or I, the other person would continue to this on our own, because we each love the experience of being remote in the outdoors, whether it is Colorado, Montana, Alaska, Ohio or Maine.
We are both lucky in that respect. Since I have had a great partner all these years I guess I have taken it for granted. I may have to give him two kisses this year in camp to make up for it. Ha!
Bump this one up to the top.
I'm enjoying reading this thread good information for anybody who wants to DIY an Elk hunt.
I DIY every year... :)
This ranks up there with one of the most informative and educational threads I have ever read here,, or the 'Wall. Thanks so much for taking the time with this Gil. I hope you are rewarded 10 fold on your upcoming hunt. I will look forward to the 'rest of the story'. ~Steve
Let's keep this one up guys. I will try to add some pics and specs on my bivy food in the next couple of days.
Thanks Gil for a great thread.
Everybody is welcome to add to this. I am interested in learning too. I would like to see other setups and what other people do also.
I think the more input we have on what others do and the equipment they use the better. The more information and insight the better. It will not only help others but also show them this is very doable.
We will all be helping each other and seeing alternative methods and equipment and that would be great.
I believe that once others that are very interested to try this, see many others doing it it will make them less apprehensive to try it themselves.
The idea that this thread may give someone else the confidence to try, makes me feel real good about it, because that is the reason I started it.
So Wayne, jump in and let it rip. Any others that do DIY please also join in with your insights and equipment.
This thread wasn't meant to be about me, it is meant to be for us!
Gil,
The way I have been reading it is, it is about us, with a lot of help from you and some others, this is some really good advice and pointers.
Thanks a lot for all of it!
I just thought I would add a little about the food I take. I think I am a little extravagant on the food... but maybe someone here will see something they like.
Breakfast:
I usually eat quaker instant oats. With the variety of flavors (apples & cinnamon, maple & brown sugar, peaches & cream, etc.) I don't get tired of them. I also have a hot cocoa as I'm not a coffee drinker. Breakfast bars could add more variety if you don't like oats. Oats really stick with me as they are a slow digesting carb.
Lunch: I love Peanut Butter, bacon and honey on tortilla shells. I use tyson pre-cooked bacon and make up my sandwiches ahead of time, sealing them in plastic wrap or in a zip-lock bag. Sometimes I do like you Gil and just have a Pure Protein bar and some jerky or trail mix. Oberto's BBQ Pork jerky from Sam's Club is the best, tenderest and tastiest jerky that I have found. If I'm real hungry and the hunting is slow during the day... I may have a hot meal. Either a MH or Ramen Noodles with chicken or tuna added. The Ramen Noodles are bad for you (very high sodium) so I use 1/2 of a flavor packet and then add tyson chicken (from the foil pack).
Suppers:
I usually have a MH meal and like most all their entrees. Sometimes I'll switch out and have the Ramen noodles with chicken or tuna. I'll also have Instant Potatoes at times. Those come in several varieties such as; buttery, garlic, and loaded.
Snacks:
Jerky (Oberto's BBQ Pork), trail mix (my own mix of peanuts, cashews, almonds, sunflower nuts and Reeses pieces), Pure Protein bars, Nature Valley protein bars, etc.
I rebag my MH meals in a 1 quart double lock zip lock bag (along with the preservation pack) and mark what entree it is. Then I take in a couple of the original mylar MH packages to use as "bowls". I also use the freezer bag inside the MH mylar bag for my ramen noodles and chicken.
Maybe I'm too organized, but I also like to bag each days food (Breakfast, lunch, snacks and supper) in a 1 gallon double lock zip-lock bag. The one in the pic below weighs about 1.2 lbs. That way I can just throw in my backpack the number of days I'm staying out and I'm ready to go.
By the way. I park my camper near the TH and make 2 or 3 trips into a "basecamp" and stash my food and gear. I put the food in bags suspended between trees and about 10' off the ground. Once my "basecamp" is stocked... I hunt from there on 2-5 day bivy hunts. If/When the basecamp gets low on food, I hike back out and resupply.
I'm retired and basically take the whole season off.
Pics coming up of some of the food... including a "one day of meals bag"... (hanging on the bow rack).
(http://i429.photobucket.com/albums/qq19/fnshtr/P1040783.jpg)
(http://i429.photobucket.com/albums/qq19/fnshtr/P1040784.jpg)
I forgot to mention my drink flavorings. I use tang (transferred to a double zip-lock bag) and gatorade packets. I add these to my water bladders after using both disinfection tabs and the tablets to remove the taste (to remove the residual chemical after disinfection).
I use filters (Katadyne) on occasion, but generally have very clear stream water to begin with. As stated previously, I use 2 water bladders while hunting... to cut down on trips to water.
One thing I havent seen mentioned yet is a little roll of fishing line and a few small panther martins or the like. Lots of brookies in some of the mountain creeks and they are very aggresive, will hit anything shiney. A nice fresh fish supper is dang good after a few days in and the gear neede weighs hardly anything.
Here is my cooking system. It's an Optimus Crux stove and 4 oz. fuel canister. This will cook my hot meals/drinks for 4 or 5 days. I use the larger 8 oz. fuel canisters in our base camp. The pot allows me to boil 2 cups of water in a very short period of time.
The billfold is to show how small the unit is.
(http://i429.photobucket.com/albums/qq19/fnshtr/P1040791.jpg)
Note that the fuel canister fits inside the pot.
(http://i429.photobucket.com/albums/qq19/fnshtr/P1040788.jpg)
(http://i429.photobucket.com/albums/qq19/fnshtr/P1040785.jpg)
4dogs:
Good point. We usually just take some line and a few hooks, then catch grasshoppers or other natural bait.
Fish or grouse are great to add to and extend the food supplies.
Gil:
Once again this is a great post but don't get too carried away with kissing your hunting partner. I've alwys heard that one kiss is a sign of love and affection; two marks the beginning of an affair. :laughing:
Well I am just about ready to start up the thread again.
In addition to hunting elk we try to take some grouse and we bring in a light fishing rod and some flies. We also bring in tin foil to cook it instead of a frying pan.
You can see the fishing pole on my partner's backpack.
(http://i696.photobucket.com/albums/vv324/distantmeadows/Colorado%202011/DSCN0074.jpg)
Once the elk is down this is what we do to bone out the elk. This is real good for Colorado hunters, since it goes over the necessity of what has to be taken and ensuring that you leave evidence of sex.
Here is how to bone one out without gutting it and even getting out the fillet minion from the outside.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGCAY5Amvn4
Did I miss the boots /footwear section?
Not yet, it is coming. I will do that next.
Gil
Did I miss the boots /footwear section?
Boots.
Here is what we did in regard to boots.
If you look at this picture, these alpine meadows are like a sponge. They are soft like muskeg but much wetter.
(http://i696.photobucket.com/albums/vv324/distantmeadows/Colorado%202011/DSCN0117.jpg)
Here are the boots we used. I used the Lowa Bamffs and my hunting partner used the Rockies. You can see I now have a pair of Rockies.
The first thing I did when I got back was buy a pair of these boots. I got them over the Internet for $89 free shipping from Dicks.
I paid about $280 for the Lowas.
(http://i696.photobucket.com/albums/vv324/distantmeadows/Picture156.jpg)
The Lowas were great for hiking. They were super comfortable. They had great ankle support. They were not waterproof. My feet were wet and cold for 11 days of hunting. The day we had snow I had frostbite on one of my toes. I even melted the boots around the campfire trying to warm my feet and dry the boots.
(http://i696.photobucket.com/albums/vv324/distantmeadows/Picture158.jpg)
(http://i696.photobucket.com/albums/vv324/distantmeadows/Picture157.jpg)
My partner walked through wetter terrain for more days than I did and his boots were bone dry. I have been wearing my Rockies for a long time now and they are comfortable, light, warm, waterproof and have great ankle support too.
The Rockies are the boots we both will be wearing this year.
In addition to boots I brought two pairs of Marino Wool socks and two pairs of silk socks to wear under the wool socks. We both do this and neither one of us had any blisters in 11 days of a lot of walking.
I use Meindls... but it is great to find a reasonably inexpensive boot that works well. I do the same with socks... wicks underneath of wool.
Hey Gil,
I spoke with Fred Eichler at the Muzzy shoot and told him how easy he made it look in that video. He said since he has done it so many times it is pretty easy for him but that even if somebody took their time it would be pretty easy for anybody to do a good job.
so you wear the silk or the merino on your skin?
Just read this whole thread all the way through. Gil, you have inspired me and I'm sure a lot of other folks on here.
Thank-you Sir and best of luck on your hunt this fall :thumbsup:
I wear the silk under the wool. It prevents blisters.
I am about to pack up and will post the rest of the pictures this weekend.
Rick I hope you give it a go. If I can do it anybody can and it is a rewarding experience.
Gil
Good luck on your hunt, Gil. I hope you have a great time.
I am leaving today for CO. Good luck Gil... look forward to the update.
Almost time, Gil!
I saw two huge bulls this week....velvet was hanging all over their heads, the morning was crisp and it smelled like fall, acorns were 'plopping' on the ground and the bulls were stretching their necks getting ready for the rut! Life is Good!!
10 days until I leave Al.
Wayne let us know how you did.
Gil
ttt. Good luck, Gil.
Anybody hear anything out of Gil? Did he make back out ok?
I too was wondering how Gil has done.
My hunt was great... but I didn't drop the string this year. I hunted the first 5 days solo and passed on a calf at 4 yds. as well as a couple of cows. One lone bugle that first week.
The second week was spent calling for my son. He missed his first bull (5X5) but got it on video (camera was attached to bow). His last evening I called in a HUGE 6X6 that I'm pretty sure would have made P&Y. He had thirds that were between 20 and 24". My son had him at 15 yds. but couldn't move as the bull had him "pinned down". Evening thermals gave him away before he could get a shot.
I then hunted solo the last 5 days. Called a 5X in to 15 yds. but didn't have the opening I needed for an ethical shot. Total bulls called in was 6.
Looking forward to next year.
Hope to hear from Gil soon.
Wayne
Well I got back about a week ago and I just got caught up on other stuff.
Our elk heaven turned into Grand Central Station with 22 hunters in addition to us over two weeks.
All the activity plus the dry year they had pushed the elk down low.
I blew it on a small bull at 25 yards when I got picked off and my hunting partner shot under a 4 X 4.
Camp 2013 is all picked out for next year.
I also met a great Tradganger out there in the back country, which was a plus. He will remain nameless since he doesn't want anyone to know he knows me! I also met up with another Tradganger in town. Another plus.
It was nice seeing young men taking advantage of this type of hunting. They will be doing it for many years.
I will post some pictures and stories.
We packed in on horses and mules and that was an adventure in itself, but is definitely the way to go. I nearly went off a cliff on the way in and on the way out got bucked off over the mules head - BUT I STAYED IN THE SADDLE! The only problem was the saddle came off with me, over the mules front legs and head! Yeee Haaaaa!
I thought I had been thrown off a horse every way possible but I was wrong, mules have their own sneaky way of doing it. Good thing I still bounce good and don't break like a cheap whiskey bottle yet!
Gil
Glad to hear you had fun gil! It was nice to meet you as well! I sent you a pm about our hunt which was a great adventure too. We had em bugling all around. Just glad to hear you made it safely.
David you are luckier than we were. I am glad to see you and your friends were into elk and had them bugling. The elk barely bugled by us because of all the human activity, including guys bugling their brains out. We bugled once the whole time we were there and three guys hunted us.
I am hoping next year will be like last year and the other hunters were put out by all the activity also. If not it will be time for a new spot.
Gil
Glad you guys had a good time and made it back safe. Gil, sounds like that mule has your number so pick a different one next year. Also sounds like you guys are really getting the hang of this elk hunting and it's only a matter of time before you both get that big P&Y.
Thanks for the pics.
This is a great thread, I have to periodically drag it out and read it again. Lots of good advice, I have dabbled in this some, doing it twice, and learning each time.
I've referred to it many times
Thanks for the advice! This is on my bucket list.
TTT for all those folks getting ready for Elk!! Lucky SOB's!!!! :D This is always a great one to read through.
tons and tons of great info here
Great thread, Gil! I hope you'll fill us in on your hunt this year as well. This is also my goal, but closer to home!
Great thread, you are an inspiration to all. I'm heading out for my sixth DIY Colorado elk bowhunt but we mostly car camp and just bivy for 3 nites at a time.
Great to see this thread back up top for us elk chasers.
Good luck all and please tell your stories here!
Gil, one thing I picked up here-and thanks again for posting all this-is the utility of a takedown bow! I hadn't thought much about it until last night, and after mulling it over, I realize with a takedown, that would leave both hands free for the trekking poles. I just may have to get a new Toelke!
Thanks guys for the comments I am glad you found the thread had some useful information. Good luck to everyone going this year. I am building a horse farm and have to take all my vacation for that this year. Next year Colorado elk again.
Last year we arranged a packer to take us in and out. We also arranged to have the elk packed out if we were successful.
I missed not backpacking in, but it added a lot of time to the hunt.
If you do go backcountry I would definitely arrange a packer to come in and get the elk out.
Going in on mules and horses are an adventure in itself. A lot of funny stories on the way in and out. Yee ha!
If you do go by horseback make sure to bring riding boots. Hunting boots won't do since the stirrups are narrow and can get your foot stuck in them when the rodeo starts!
Alex a two piece is very handy for hunting, even when deer hunting. Just take it apart put it in your quiver and you have two hands to drag. A three piece would also probably work well too. You can put the riser in your day pack and limbs in the quiver. A&H risers are small and all three pieces might fit in a quiver.
Good luck everyone.
Gil
:campfire: :campfire: up for looper
Thanks. I'll definitely be using this for a reference.
This was one awesome thread. Man the mountains are calling me!
Yes great thread. Thanks so much for sharing
This was a lot of fun to read. Hope those lucky enough to go elk hunting have a great adventure.
Super thread...
My last post to tradgang before leaving tomorrow morning for CO. Hope to have pics and a story in 2 or 3 weeks.
Good luck everyone... be safe!
An amazing thread...one of the best I have read. I am almost 55...waiting to retire from 30 + years of teaching. I am 6'2 265lbs...I need to lose weight (especially before DIY elk hunt). I am a "driven" person as many moons ago I was a two time all american and national champion in track & field (college). I did do a 11 mile hike in the Gila Wilderness with a 70lb pack this past summer. It kicked my butt but I noticed it got a little easier each day...The rockie boots are they lowa's? again thanks...I am pumped !
Awesome thread !!!!!
great thread
QuoteOriginally posted by awbowman:
Gil, one area we hunted ZERO phone reception, second place FULL RECEPTION. You never know.
Our weather, well it rained, sleeted and/or snowed every day for 10 straight days. One day it rained sleeted AND snowed on us five times in a matter of 10 hours. IT takes mental fortitude to hunt the mountains, but IT'S WORTH IT!!!!
You slept in the tent the whole trip !!
wow, glad this one was resurrected. a great thread. very inspirational. Thanks Gil
Was just reading over this one again. One of my favorites from a few years ago. Thought I would bring it up for folks to read in the off season. Some great stuff here. Thanks again Gil!
Hey Rob, Terry and guys....this one definitely needs to go into the classics!!