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Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: zipper bowss on July 04, 2012, 10:16:00 AM

Title: small game head idea, WHAT DO YOU THINK?picture added
Post by: zipper bowss on July 04, 2012, 10:16:00 AM
I was laying in bed this morning thinking about what I had to do for the day.  That's when the idea came to me. How about turning some of these Grizzly's that get culled into small game points.  Small game points are kind of tricky. What I mean is  we want some of the shock of a blunt but we also need the cut of a broadhead.  Maybe this is a good compromise between the two.

What say you?
(http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e305/zipperbows/DSC00368640x480.jpg)
Title: Re: small game head idea, WHAT DO YOU THINK?picture added
Post by: zipper bowss on July 04, 2012, 10:18:00 AM
The front of the head is not ground. It is flat to add some shock. I took this head out of the junk pile to see how the idea looked. Its nothing revolutionary but it just may work very well.
Bill
Title: Re: small game head idea, WHAT DO YOU THINK?picture added
Post by: Jake Fr on July 04, 2012, 10:22:00 AM
I think that they will work just fine on small game. Let us know when you will sale some id like a dozen for rabbits this fall
Title: Re: small game head idea, WHAT DO YOU THINK?picture added
Post by: Rob W. on July 04, 2012, 10:28:00 AM
I like it!   :thumbsup:  Looks like bad squirrel medicine. I'm not a blunt fan for squirrels. Just too tough sometimes. Those should do the trick.


Rob
Title: Re: small game head idea, WHAT DO YOU THINK?picture added
Post by: Green on July 04, 2012, 10:28:00 AM
Looks like a great head for the Texas corn bandits.  I'd be up for some as well.
Title: Re: small game head idea, WHAT DO YOU THINK?picture added
Post by: owlbait on July 04, 2012, 10:28:00 AM
Looks good Bill. Great idea to use some of that cull stock for a new product.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: small game head idea, WHAT DO YOU THINK?picture added
Post by: Shedrock on July 04, 2012, 10:30:00 AM
Excellent way to recycle. I think those would work great. What does it weigh in at? Cost for a half dozen?
Title: Re: small game head idea, WHAT DO YOU THINK?picture added
Post by: ChrisM on July 04, 2012, 10:34:00 AM
Looks like the trick for squirel as said above the are too tough for blunts.
Title: Re: small game head idea, WHAT DO YOU THINK?picture added
Post by: Recurve50 LBS on July 04, 2012, 10:42:00 AM
IMHO it should be effective.
Title: Re: small game head idea, WHAT DO YOU THINK?picture added
Post by: adeeden on July 04, 2012, 11:18:00 AM
I like it, but it would be 100 times better if there was a stop of some kind  about  1/2 inch past the tip to stop penetration on hard stuff and to keep it from burying under leaves/grass. Great reuse of a scrap pile though!     That's my biggest complaint on broad heads for squirrels to many get burried in trees, that's why I have went to a sharpened wing nut style head for them.
Title: Re: small game head idea, WHAT DO YOU THINK?picture added
Post by: KentuckyTJ on July 04, 2012, 11:25:00 AM
What I like to see in a small game head is when shot from the ground most of them are designed to keep them from slipping under the grass and losing your arrow. With that said, I think you are onto something here if you can somehow address that issue. Maybe the answer is as simple as adding one of these behind the head.

   (http://i.imgur.com/lrQLF.jpg)

 (http://i.imgur.com/f9TzM.jpg)

What I do is bend the aluminum wings foreward on these things and they really stop in the grass that way.
Title: Re: small game head idea, WHAT DO YOU THINK?picture added
Post by: KentuckyTJ on July 04, 2012, 11:28:00 AM
If these were made from steel they would also get the weight back up that was lost in grinding the head down.
Title: Re: small game head idea, WHAT DO YOU THINK?picture added
Post by: zipper bowss on July 04, 2012, 12:12:00 PM
Loosing them in the leaves may be an issue. I like the star washer behind the head that would surely keep you from loosing them. With the broad flat tip I dont think sticking too deep in a tree would be much of an issue. I guess I need to shoot one into a tree and see. I may be wrong.

As for the weight. The green one in the picture was a 120 grain Grizzly head. After the tip was ground down it weighs 112 grains. I did the same thing to a 170 grain Kodiak and it ended up at 147 grains. The thicker steal of the 170 Kodiak made a much more broad flat point.
Title: Re: small game head idea, WHAT DO YOU THINK?picture added
Post by: zipper bowss on July 04, 2012, 12:49:00 PM
As for a price? $20.10 for a six pack plus shipping will cover them. Keep in mind there will not be alot of them. At least I hope there will not be a lot of them.
Title: Re: small game head idea, WHAT DO YOU THINK?picture added
Post by: Rick Butler on July 04, 2012, 12:51:00 PM
I like em, should work well on upland birds too, thin skined but you don't want them flying off with your arrow!
Title: Re: small game head idea, WHAT DO YOU THINK?picture added
Post by: wingnut on July 04, 2012, 02:31:00 PM
Bill,

I've done that for years with some old MA3 heads I had.  Work great on small critters.

Don't see why the griz won't be just as good.

Mike
Title: Re: small game head idea, WHAT DO YOU THINK?picture added
Post by: RonD on July 04, 2012, 02:42:00 PM
In Mississippi, to the best of my knowledge, broadheads cannot be used to hunt small game. Points, such as judo points and blunts, can be used to hunt small game. Whether this applies to private vs. public land regulations or to all hunting scenarios in the state, I am not certain. Other than that, the head would be great where it is legal.
Title: Re: small game head idea, WHAT DO YOU THINK?picture added
Post by: Tyler C. Moore on July 04, 2012, 02:47:00 PM
they look awesome to me. I agree on the star washers behind them.  I can see them being very effective on coons and larger varmints
Title: Re: small game head idea, WHAT DO YOU THINK?picture added
Post by: RedShaft on July 04, 2012, 02:59:00 PM
Bill what about a head similar to what you got, blunted end with sharpened edged sides and hooks or flats that stick out from the rear edge of base so that you get shock, & penetration on the initial hit, a cutting edge down the side and hooks so that it dont pass through the animal? and make it beefed up so we can smash it off stuff and call it the small game machete.
Title: Re: small game head idea, WHAT DO YOU THINK?picture added
Post by: ozy clint on July 05, 2012, 04:05:00 AM
i'd try turning them into a broadhead again. leave the backend alone so you don't lose width and grind the edge down to form a point again at the tip.
instead of 'grizzly el grande' they could be 'grizzly la petite'. it would be very strong as the ferrule runs right to the tip, just like my favourite blackstump broadheads. plus it would add another model to your list and add value to your rejects. unless the reason they are a reject is something other than the original tip that is missing.

as a broadhead, if the tip of the point was just beyond the tip of the ferrule and they were double bevel i'd buy them in an instant.

those 170gr ones that end up being 147gr might work for me. by the time i ground it down to a broadhead again it might be around 125gr.
Title: Re: small game head idea, WHAT DO YOU THINK?picture added
Post by: Terry Lightle on July 05, 2012, 07:34:00 AM
When?
Title: Re: small game head idea, WHAT DO YOU THINK?picture added
Post by: Terry Green on July 05, 2012, 09:31:00 AM
Yep ...they would make good small game heads for sure ......a little shock with a lot of slice.
Title: Re: small game head idea, WHAT DO YOU THINK?picture added
Post by: Birdbow on July 05, 2012, 10:21:00 AM
Bill,
 Think you've got a winner there. Been using 'bobbed' broadheads ( damaged, bent, etc. then ground the points down) for years for squirrels in particular. Like many, don't like blunts of any kind for those tough bushytails. What you describe should also be perfect for larger varmints, coyotes, etc., too. Good use of the culls - good thinking. Todd
Title: Re: small game head idea, WHAT DO YOU THINK?picture added
Post by: Zradix on July 05, 2012, 12:32:00 PM
looks promising.

Here's a thought...
I'm not sure if any of your heads are filled solid with braze right at the point of the ferrule.

Maybe having a cut out like the pic below might add some more shock and keep the blades from digging into the dirt as much.

My thought was also if you were able to cut up into the ferrule a bit it might add more shock.
If the complete ferrule is hollow it might be a little weird with a hole in the end getting packed with dirt and trying to push the shaft out.

...maybe don't cut it all the way to the ferrule..?

  (http://i748.photobucket.com/albums/xx121/Zradix/DSC00368640x480-1.jpg)
Title: Re: small game head idea, WHAT DO YOU THINK?picture added
Post by: Terry Green on July 05, 2012, 12:46:00 PM
Like others....been doing this for years...here's a post from 2005.....

  modified small gamers (http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=000055)  

If I owned a bhead company...I'd sure find a way to use the culls if i could....at least try and get the cost of materials back.  I like the original pic....again, a little shock and a lot of slice....just what i have found to work really well on a host of small critters.

I use the talons for tree shots.
Title: Re: small game head idea, WHAT DO YOU THINK?picture added
Post by: LongStick64 on July 05, 2012, 12:54:00 PM
Great idea there Bill, I'd like to get a six pack and try them out on some bushytails, do you have any ready to go.
Title: Re: small game head idea, WHAT DO YOU THINK?picture added
Post by: raghorn on July 05, 2012, 02:02:00 PM
Will the single bevel improve penetration on small critters? Split bone better?   :bigsmyl:  

30 years ago we had trouble with blunts not working well with rabbits so we switched to broadheads. Then we found that the broadhead would/could skip and go airborne. That was a problem with the other shooters in the area. Modifying these heads like the picture stopped the bunnies and the skipping.
  (http://images.imagelinky.com/1341511299.jpg)
Title: Re: small game head idea, WHAT DO YOU THINK?picture added
Post by: KentuckyTJ on July 05, 2012, 02:33:00 PM
Now that's a great idea Raghorn! Bill could your hardend steel be cut and bent or would it break?
Title: Re: small game head idea, WHAT DO YOU THINK?picture added
Post by: Zradix on July 05, 2012, 02:49:00 PM
raghorn...

Are those MA's?

Look cool.
Title: Re: small game head idea, WHAT DO YOU THINK?picture added
Post by: buckcrazy825 on July 05, 2012, 03:41:00 PM
looks good to me. i was thinking about getting some blunt small game tips for squirrels but i know they are kind of tough. that should work great
Title: Re: small game head idea, WHAT DO YOU THINK?picture added
Post by: Todweelz on July 05, 2012, 03:46:00 PM
Bet that cut and bent concept would work great with the first pic posted. A blunt grizzly with a twisted blade wouldn't need a star washer behind it and it would'nt bury itself and skip as much.
Title: Re: small game head idea, WHAT DO YOU THINK?picture added
Post by: raghorn on July 05, 2012, 03:51:00 PM
MA-3 Large
Title: Re: small game head idea, WHAT DO YOU THINK?picture added
Post by: JamesKerr on July 05, 2012, 03:52:00 PM
Those look great!
Title: Re: small game head idea, WHAT DO YOU THINK?picture added
Post by: owlbait on July 05, 2012, 03:54:00 PM
Cut them so you can glue an insert into the tip and screw a blunt into the end! ::goldtooth
Title: Re: small game head idea, WHAT DO YOU THINK?picture added
Post by: zipper bowss on July 05, 2012, 08:34:00 PM
Some good suggestions here. I like Raghorns mods. I cut some groves in to each side of the blade today. I think it should stop loosing them in the tall grass or brush as well as add more shock.I'll see if I can get Tracy to post some pictures for me tomarrow.

There is no bending these blades. The Grizzly head is so hard that it will only bend so far then it will break. It will not stay bent.They would have to be reheated to bend the blades. If it is reheated the temper will be lost. Also one thing to consider the more time and resources I have to put into these small game heads the more they will cost.

Ron is sending me any of the heads that did not make the cut as broadheads.I'll have them to turn into small game heads next week.
Bill
Title: Re: small game head idea, WHAT DO YOU THINK?picture added
Post by: frank bullitt on July 05, 2012, 08:54:00 PM
Exactly Bill! Your are looking from a business aspect first!

Sell as is, let those who purchase do the modifying.

Those who have responded know what works... for them!
Title: Re: small game head idea, WHAT DO YOU THINK?picture added
Post by: Gen273 on July 05, 2012, 09:44:00 PM
Bill,

one of the things that I love about you, is the fact that you are always thinking.

The Head looks good and with Tom's Idea of the washer; I think you Just may have something there.

Raghorn has a good idea as well, but it will be a little more work on your part.

How about, sell them with a steel Star washer from the Hardware store(I am sure you could buy them in bulk) and then we can buy a complete package from you.

you could call them the Grizzly Small-stuff or the Grizzly Furball, because I can just see a bunny shot with one. I am sure that there would be fur everywhere!
Title: Re: small game head idea, WHAT DO YOU THINK?picture added
Post by: Cyclic-Rivers on July 05, 2012, 10:08:00 PM
What if a small hole was drilled through the end of the ferrule?  

Then people could install a finishing nail half way through if they wanted to?  Not only is it replaceable but It would stop the arrow from skipping or penetrating too much. plenty of shock and slice. also people can modify it the way they want.
Title: Re: small game head idea, WHAT DO YOU THINK?picture added
Post by: RedShaft on July 05, 2012, 11:03:00 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by raghorn:
Will the single bevel improve penetration on small critters? Split bone better?    :bigsmyl:    

30 years ago we had trouble with blunts not working well with rabbits so we switched to broadheads. Then we found that the broadhead would/could skip and go airborne. That was a problem with the other shooters in the area. Modifying these heads like the picture stopped the bunnies and the skipping.
   (http://images.imagelinky.com/1341511299.jpg)
Thats similar to what i described! nice..
Title: Re: small game head idea, WHAT DO YOU THINK?picture added
Post by: JamesKerr on July 05, 2012, 11:18:00 PM
Bill let me know when you get some ready to ship and I'll order a six pack to try.
Title: Re: small game head idea, WHAT DO YOU THINK?picture added
Post by: owlbait on July 06, 2012, 07:23:00 AM
Yep, TJ, Ron, and Charlie have great ideas. Sell the culls as is, no warranty, and let innovation take over with the buyer!
Title: Re: small game head idea, WHAT DO YOU THINK?picture added
Post by: zipper bowss on July 06, 2012, 07:51:00 AM
QuoteOriginally posted by owlbait:
Yep, TJ, Ron, and Charlie have great ideas. Sell the culls as is, no warranty, and let innovation take over with the buyer!
Frank and Owlbait make good since. Maybe we will just go with the original picture and let you all modify as you see fit.
Bill