Hey guys just got my new ace super expresses in. I got me a chainsaw raker file or depth gauge file, it is a oregon and it says swiss made on it. I've spent hours in my shop using stones,steels,leather strops with compound on them, crock sticks, just about everything. And i think a file sharpened edge is sharper than all of them. It will ROLL the hair of the side of my calf.I can't believe a file will get a broadhead that sharp. After i use a file it seems like i dull them trying to strop them or use a stone to hone them. Im always trying to get the scariest edge i can. I just never thought a file would do that. Just thinking out loud.
In my opinion you are on the right track.
I use a raker file and use the smooth edge of the file like a butcher's steel to finish up. Good for two blade or three blade broad heads and gets them shaving sharp.
Raker files are inexpensive and very efficient.
I'm a big file guy myself. Lots of ways to get there but I'll take a file first any day.
Same for me after trying everything else around
But i still think that some broadheads are
better with a file ( Magnus ) and others better
with a stone . ( tuff head ) that i use in Afica.
File only for me please.
Ive had the most luck getting a nice ge with a file, though I do strop and tune up an edge with an Arkansas stone my father in law gave me. Gets hair popping with that.
I'm not that great with a file "free hand" but when I shoot Zwickey's, I use a 'Lil' Shaver' sharpener (3 Rivers used to sell them...may still do it) and I can get a shaving sharp edge with this. I'll file sharpend the tip angle down and then use the Shaver to do the entire edge and they really get sharp. For some reason I think a file sharpened edge tends hold an edge longer as well.
Sold my KME, good product by the way. I seem to get a very nice edge on zwickey's with a file.
file for me too....if I do my part, vittles in the pan......
Interesting to see this thread. I've been doing it 'file-only' for more than a decade. I can get any (seriously...any) broadhead shaving sharp with just one small file. I've used it on Zwickeys, Snuffers, VPAs, Magnus, Abowyers, Eclipse and others. As Smokin Joe says, I use the side (edge) of the file to steel my final edge. On a wilderness hunt, the only tool I take for broadheads is my file.
Couple extra thoughts...
At home I've been known to occasionally strop my finished heads on leather...just lightly. Some Simichrome or polishing paste smeared on the leather seems to enhance the final effect.
A piece of cardboard makes a very good strop in a pinch. Cardboard surface is just textured enough to do the job. I've used it to put the final razor edge on a 3-blade.
The top rim of a water glass (tumbler) makes a great final 'edge-setter' on all heads, but especially on 3-blades. The glass rim needs to be radiused (most are) and smooth to touch. Very lightly drag the almost-finished head across the radiused top rim of the glass, holding the same sharpening angle. On 3-blades, I put 2 blades on the rim and drag backward to the tip. The only pressure is the weight of the head. Glass being harder than steel, it will align the final micro edge (burr, bead, wire edge etc) to amazing sharpness.
Thanks Kevin. I'll try this.
Told a guy here once I'd never believe a hair popping edge from a file. I was wrong! Dont know how you file guys do it?
Agree w/above about LIGHTLY stropping or working the edge to perfect after sharpening. And, a small 30x-40X scope you can see the edge perfect.
Like Kevin, I've been doing the drinking glass trick for a number of years now and it is surprising the difference it makes. But Kevin is right though, that only very light pressure is needed. Pretty cool. Simple and effective. I think over all, the biggest problem most guys have with files, aside from keeping a consistent angle, is the use of too much pressure. Kind of like using a hand saw, you've got to let the file do the work.
yuk-chuck (sorry..couldn't resist!) is spot on his comment. Ultra-sharp always equates with ultra-careful (angle) and ultra-light (pressure). On the final half dozen strokes, I'm carrying some of the head's weight and just barely letting it contact the strop/steel/glass. A feathery touch is best. My all-time favorite file is the Kustom King broadhead file...I think I own 5 or 6 new and unused ones...and have 3 in service. I even made my own file sheath for use when traveling on hunts.
Incidentally, on new heads I often begin with an 8 or 10 inch mill bastard file for initial edge reduction. They cut faster and easier, saving time and wear/tear on a good broadhead file. I recommend a file brush (cleaner) to periodically remove the cuttings from file teeth. A partially-plugged file will have you muttering bad words while wondering why your broadhead isn't getting sharp.
snag....love your arrows...always!
This thread is reminding me that I have a new KME with accessories which needs to get listed on the classifieds. I never use it.
You are spot on Kevin about taking care of your file..... A good file card will clean a dirty file and restore it's ability to cut with clean gullets. Don't forget the chalk trick too.... clean your file with alcohol or acetone, then chalk it up before and during use. I always alcohol and then WD 40 my files before storing too. Rust KILLS a file. When I get it out I alcohol to remove the WD 40, chalk her up and get to cutting. The chalk will fill the bottom of the gullets, absorb any oils, and keep your metal filings free from sticking in the bottom of the gullets. Never touch the file teeth with your fingers, use a good wooden file handle. Finger oils and acids will eat your file and clog the teeth.
The old time machinists who trained me in my machining days would roll over in their grave if they seen how most try to use or worse yet, not care for a good file. You would be amazed at how long a good quality Nicholson, Sandvik, or other high quality USA or Swiss made file will last with proper care. :readit:
Files are a good thing at my cabin
I hope you guys know that you've got a lot of people a spittin' and a sputterin' for using them danged old files. Everybody knows you can't really sharpen broadheads with out fancy sharpening devices! :) I thought I was the only person left that used a file.
Good thread: When I worked in an office I kept my pocket knife shaving sharp by honing it on the bottom of a ceramic coffee cup. I will get my files together Monday and make sure they are clean and ready to go. I always use a file card, too. That is one thing that really helps.
I use a file too. Its an easy carry item in the field. Also use cardboard some. Mr. Charlie Lamb has a good tutorial on using a file. Its where I learned some finer points on how to use one properly.
Yeah Butch. Never said anything about sharpening with files cause I figured I be told how awful that was and didn't care to debate what I apparently know nothing about :rolleyes: . If shaving hair or slicing a thin piece of paper ain't sharp enough, so be it I guess. Been doing it for ever. It's a matter of teasing the metal off as opposed to taking it off. A little file fits well in my belongings when I'm out and about.
I never used to be able to get anything sharp with a file. But lately, I've been using them on knives and broadheads for the 'coarse edge' before polishing, and occasionally wondering if I should even bother going to a stone. Especially when I occasionally go to a smoother stone and make the thing less sharp!
Hey Harleywriter, I couldn't agree with you more! This is a thread long overdue. Lots of folks use a file to sharpen their broadheads. It's a very practical skill that is often overlooked.
I am interested in this as a file would be easy t carry on the hunt. What files do y'all recommend. I saw one person above likes a Kustom King file. Any others out there worth mentioning?
I went to my local Lowe's and bought a 6" Nicholson Mill Bastard file and the plastic handle to go with it. It has served me well. Not real expensive, either.
Grobet are the best in my opinion, but any will do the job if they are sharp. The difference is in how long they last.
The biggest mistake most guys make is buying a file and thinking they never will need to replace it. If you hunt a lot you'll probably need to replace your file each year. If not so much then every other year.
If the teeth look shiny...replace it!
QuoteOriginally posted by cahaba:
I use a file too. Its an easy carry item in the field. Also use cardboard some. Mr. Charlie Lamb has a good tutorial on using a file. Its where I learned some finer points on how to use one properly.
Is the file tutorial on TradGang?
Jeff,
Here it is from the "How To Resources"
file sharpening (http://tradgang.com/noncgi/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=000095)
I'm the guy who mentioned the Kustom King Broadhead File. I discovered years ago that this file has a fairly smooth and rounded edge, instead of the usual flat edge with file teeth. I use that rounded edge as a steel. I file-sharpen a head until it's cutting arm hair. Then I hold the file 'edge-up' and stationary (left hand) while stroking (steeling) the broadhead edges. I have my own very specific technique as does everyone.
One of the tougher things for most guys...when it comes to files...is sharpening free-hand while maintaining a consistent angle. When I reach the point of filing "this edge...flip, other edge...flip" and doing one file stroke per edge, it can be hard to maintain an angle. I have no secret for this. I've been doing it for so many years that I can just free-hand file from rough edge to totally hair-peeling sharp.
I don't know the maker of the KK file. Pretty sure it's not a Grobet, and for sure not a Nicholson. It's made in Portugal and stamped with a 'W'. Great file.
I can get broadheads very sharp with one of the polishing wheels and jewelers rough.
I watched Ray Hammond get some Grizzlies sharper than I could on the wheel in a minute with a file and leather strop. I was amazed.
Ray told me that the wheel is good but you can't take it with you. He was right.
QuoteOriginally posted by Charlie Lamb:
Jeff,
Here it is from the "How To Resources"
file sharpening (http://tradgang.com/noncgi/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=000095)
Are these on YouTube? My iPad won't pull up that type video.
Files are great, but KME gets my bleeder inserts sharper than I can with a file.
part of the success of the original poster was the fact that he is sharpening Ace broadheads.
Ace is all i shoot now cause they fly great, sharpen easily, and are American made.......
Beat that.
QuoteOriginally posted by PowDuck:
QuoteOriginally posted by Charlie Lamb:
Jeff,
Here it is from the "How To Resources"
file sharpening (http://tradgang.com/noncgi/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=000095)
Are these on YouTube? My iPad won't pull up that type video. [/b]
Downloaded an app called azul so I could watch them on my iPad. Works great.
I have only ever used a file. With zwickeys or ace or magnus or similar i can be shaving hair in 20-25 stokes per edge....I single bevel and it takes oh...about two minutes per head if I take my time.
Two "secrets"-
first don't try to "cut" with the file. Let the weight of the file do the majority of the work
Second- find a stationary object like the edge of a stair railing or table - something other than your knee that lets you hold that head at a consistent angle to keep from rolling the edge instead of sharpening it when you push against it with the file
You've all seen the video of Fred Bear sitting by the fire and sharpening freehand - well DON'T do that!
QuoteOriginally posted by roknjs:
QuoteOriginally posted by PowDuck:
QuoteOriginally posted by Charlie Lamb:
Jeff,
Here it is from the "How To Resources"
file sharpening (http://tradgang.com/noncgi/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=000095)
Are these on YouTube? My iPad won't pull up that type video. [/b]
Downloaded an app called azul so I could watch them on my iPad. Works great. [/b]
Thanks, Jeff. Worked like a charm.
I took the Kustom King file and removed the wood handle, replacing it with a Forester chainsaw file grip. I also used a piece of large-diameter heat-shrink tubing to create a light sheath. I simply heated the end of the tube gently and slowly...just enough for it to grip the last couple inches of the file. Someday I may have a custom Kydex sheath made, but the tubing works great for travel.
(http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g13/dillbilly/KKFile003.jpg)
(http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g13/dillbilly/KKFile005.jpg)
another couple of tips:
-- A file handle is a good idea, much safer than not having one. I just use a 3" long section of a stick that I have pre-drilled a little hole in for the file tang.
-- file to establish the edge and true it up -- then go light and stroke with just the weight of the file to sharpen. You get things sharp by stroking the edge lightly, not by filing it down.
-- Ray Hammond's advice about finding a solid surface is good. Sharpening a moving broad head would be beyond the limits of anyone's coordination.
Ray I wish you would do a video. That was the fastest and sharpest I have ever seen a person get a broadhead.
You tocuhed mine up and just watching you sharpen another I cut my finger on the one you sharpened for me and bled all over the deck at Hog heaven. That is the truth.
If you do one I will file it with the pork shoulder recipe.
Gil
QuoteOriginally posted by Kevin Dill:
I took the Kustom King file and removed the wood handle, replacing it with a Forester chainsaw file grip. I also used a piece of large-diameter heat-shrink tubing to create a light sheath. I simply heated the end of the tube gently and slowly...just enough for it to grip the last couple inches of the file. Someday I may have a custom Kydex sheath made, but the tubing works great for travel.
(http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g13/dillbilly/KKFile003.jpg)
(http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g13/dillbilly/KKFile005.jpg)
Nice!
Just found out I can use iPhone to do one Gil
Will try
Please Ray.
I no sooner left and forgot how you did it. I should have practiced with you with my files when I was down there but didn't.
With my old memory the video will help. Once I get your technique down I can sell all other sharpeners and be able to get the worst heads sharp anywhere and anytime in minutes.
Thanks
Gil
QuoteOriginally posted by sunset hill:
I have only ever used a file. With zwickeys or ace or magnus or similar i can be shaving hair in 20-25 stokes per edge....I single bevel and it takes oh...about two minutes per head if I take my time.
I'm a file guy, too. I use a flat file when I sharpen at home and a chainsaw file when in the field because they are so small and easy to carry in a pack. The round file will also let you sharpen the nicks in your broadhead rather than remove them, making a mini serration on the blade.
Those who sharpen their broadheads with a file do you use the same one for your knives or do you use something different in the field?
I don't use a file for my knives. I carry a good small arkansa stone for my knife. If you practice a file will sharpen a broadhead to shaving sharp in a very short amount of time.
Yup, good file, chalk and a file card. Shaving sharp in minutes.
Broadheads are much softer than knives so you would wear a good file out on a knife in short order. Knives and files are almost the same hardness. The softer knives I have tested were the carbon steel Uncle Henry and Schrades. Some of those were in the 45-48 Rockwell C hardness range with a file running around 55-60. Stick to the stones for knives like ChrisM said above.
So after reading this I busted out some old razorheads and my 6" mill bastard to give it a try. And it does work very well. I always carry a med arkansas stone with me that's about 4" long and 1" wide that I use for my knives and BHs which is my preferred method but the file is pretty cool. I'll stick with my old worn out stone though just because I can use it for my knives and BHs. Both work equally well I think. And I "hone" for lack of better terms in my coffe cup, or jeans or truck window. So all means to and end.
I have used a file since the 60's on my broadheads. I shoot mostly Zwickey 4-bladed Deltas and I can sharpen them super sharp in a short period of time. I've no quarrel with those who use something else, but filing works extra well for me.
Joe
When I get people into this I prefer to start them with Zwickey Eskimo two baldes and file sharpening. If they do not have the technique to get them shaving sharp and smooth, I teach them the Louis Armbruster version. Which is, sharpen all four sides, and try to make the file strokes very straight and machine like. Then reverse the file, using the narrow side flat and forcibly pull a burr edge up using as many strokes as it takes. It pulls up a strong ugly flat burr that holds up and kills very well. The method does not work as well on harder broadheads, but it is great on Zwickeys.
I was having a really hard time sharpening broadheads with my tiny little worn out file so I replaced it yesterday :goldtooth:
(http://thomjorgensen.com/bows/file.JPG)
I'll get a smaller one for my kit, but this one should last a good long while for doing the heavy work pre-season at home!
This thread has been great in picking up some tips for file care and maintenance!
Thom
this is mainly a ttt post.
this stuff from men who know is really neat.
i'm using the techniques described with my diamond hone, and getting great results, both on broadheads and knives.
i spent 40 years thinking i knew how to make things sharp.
now i DO.
thanks.
joe
trying to get this to post.
it will probably post 5 times now.
joe
Good info here, thanks everyone
was just at lowes and saw some files there, would a 8" medium "grit im assuming" bastard file work, it was 8 bucks
To get things really sharp -- sharp enough to "plow hair"-- then you have to go really light as you finish with the file. In other words, just the weight of the file without adding any pressure with your hand. So, for me, I like small files because "the weight of the file" is lighter.
I like a chain saw raker file best, and have several stashed in hunting packs and tool boxes. I always use a handle on the file to keep my fingers safe.
Remember -- go light to go sharp.
When you get the hang of it, you can make a broad head very scary.
:scared:
Over the years I have like alot of people used different things. but to me I think a file is the way to go on broadheads with the correct hardness. To me it just seems that once I use the file and have a hair popping edge, still slightly serrated, naturally. the keen edge of razor sharp broadheads, like any honed edge will in shorter time in field become duller. I feel alot of guys forget that moisture and/or just rubbing dull's the edge of a broadhead. That is why in the older movies Fred, Howard and others, would inspect and touch up the heads with a file, easy to carry, quick touch up, and kept that jagged edge for a great cutting through tough tissue. Just my opinion. Note: as already said, let the tool do the work, light for sharp.
Glad to see this thread. Now I can come out of the closet. For years now I've been hiding the fact that I use a file to sharpen my broadheads. :D
By the way, some excellent advice on here as to how to sharpen with a file and how to take proper care of files.