Looking at getting into some backpack hunting. I have two major issues. Fisrt, I am kinda hung up on the stove choice. Propane, butane, kerosene, fuel tablets? And what model.
I checked into the Peak one micro butane/propane and really like it but saw where the butane stoves don't work so well in cold weather. Also looked into the coleman bi fuel backpacker too, just unsure about the size of it. Are these good choices? Are there better one's?
Second issue is what type of water purificator do you recommend. Tablets, filter, etc... The pros and cons of each.
Your help is much appreciated. God Bless
Last year in CO, my buddy and I used my little Esbit Pocket Stove that burns the small tablets. If you are just heating water for dehydrated meals, that is a great light weight stove. It does leave a residue on the pot and I never have asked my buddy how difficult it was to remove. If you plan more cooking than that, I would go with a gas stove of some sort. Most of the years we have used my buddy's MSR gas stove.
I have used my MSR Sweetwater filter on about 10 elk hunts out west and it has performed flawlessly. I always carry some purification tablets as a back up if the filter messes up.
You can't go wrong with a Jetboil Flash stove and as far as water purification goes I use a MSR Sweetwater pump the only con to it is weight and bulkiness of it but i've never been sick from bad water yet so I'll deal with it. I am going to try a Katadyn filter bottle this year and see how it works. Hope this helps!
Steve
Butane works fine generally. It isn't great at high altitude (10k ft) or in very cold weather (0 deg F), but 99% of the time it works great. Kerosene can get messy. I don't like piggy back stoves (burner on top of tank) cause they get precarious with a pot on them. MSR makes great stoves. Peak stoves aren't bad either.
Filter all the way unless you like water that tastes like chemicals. I've had an MSR sweetwater for over ten years with no problems.
get a MSR pocket rocket. Toss a nagelene bottle and a light wieght pot in your pack. The bottle should fit in the pot.
frontier pro water filter, and a 2nd for the esbit tablet/stove. Mine worked perfect for a mountian house dinner at 13,000.
I use the Platypus Gravityworks filter. It works great. Much better and faster than the MSR Sweatwater pump filter I have and will leave home from now on. I have tables and never used them. There is no need to with the Gravityworks filter. This filter is lite and fast.
I use the MSR Reactor stove. It boils water extremely fast and is good on fuel.It packs down to the size of the water pot. I bring three MSR fuel cans for 11 days backpacking and have fuel left over at the end of the trek. I cook breakfast and dinner with it everyday and make a lot of coffee or tea while backpacking.
I own and use one of the Esbit fuel tab stoves, its great to heat up a cup of coffee on a cold day and you can heat water for a dehydrated meal, but for everyday use I really like my MSR Pocket Rocket.
As for a water filter, I carry a First Need filter available from Campmor. Its rated as a purifier, not just a filter, weighs about a pound.
Check this out. The Littlbug is what we use on our summer pack trips. It is a great piece of gear, and would work great on a backpack hunt. The best part is that you don't have to carry the weight of fuel in your pack. Even in very wet conditions we have never had a problem finding dry fuel for the stove.
Hope this helps.
Kevin
http://www.littlbug.com/
AWP forester, I use a duel fuel propane/butane stove made by PEAK - model 3140t-700t mirco stove, its a great stove for all temps and alts. You can use and get diff size tank, small for a 2 day trip or bigger for a 4-5 day trip, I also have a little MEC lantern that uses the same fuel. both units and fuel fit in my pot set.
your other issue is harder, but I really like my steri-pen its ultra violet and kills almost everything, I filter the water with a small paper coffee filter to make it look cleaner. you just have to carry a small plastic bottle with you as a treatment vessel.
1. Jet Boil- make your life simple
2. Katadyn Base Camp gravity filter- like having a faucet at camp.
I'm sure the other gravity filters work just as well. The Base Camp is the only one I've used.
MSR Pocket Rocket and sweetwater tab with neutralizer. Works for me.
Pocket Rocket for me and a Katyden (sp) hiker for water. Used this kit last 3 hunts "up top" and no issues. Good luck!
Soto Micro-regulator is unbelievable I just love mine weights nothing and heats water in two minutes or less for meals and a tank of fuel last long enough for a 10 day hunt. Widow
MSR Pocket Rocket and Coghlan water filter (about $20 and should last at least 5 years- I'm on my third one- they are light weight). I have the small dual fuel single burner stove by Coleman and really love it, but not for backpacking.
I have been using a brunton raptor for 5 yrs and its worked perfectly in temps down to 8* and elevations up to 12000. At the extreams it does take longer to boil water but still works. It folds down tiny and also has a piezoelectric self lighter, just push a button and go. Tablets are the lightest for water purification but you have to wait a bit to drink water (purify one bottle and let it set while drinking out of another). There is UV pen out that sterilizes water imediatly and only weighs a couple oz, but then you have to depend on batteries (maybe keep a couple tablets as an emergancy source of purification)
I use a MSR Whisperlite. Easy to maintain and re-build in the field if necessary. I have never been a fan of the butane stoves simply because of the disposable nature of the canisters. I like topping off my fuel bottle before a trip and knowing exactly how much fuel I have.
I have a katydyn water filter that I like. Great peace of mind, but a little heavy. I would like to try one of the ultra-violet "pens".
you lightest option will depend on the duration of the hunt.
for hunts upto 5-6 days a small canister stove will be your lightest option. i have a kovea titanium stove and evernew tianium pot. together they weigh 160grams. then you have the weight of the canister.
however on trips longer than that a jetboil titanium sol would be a better choice. it's heavier but it ends up being a lighter option because it's over twice as efficient on gas.
i just got back from a 2 week backpack hunt in NZ. i used my kovea stove and evernew pot my buddy used his jetboil. i used a 230gram can plus most of a 110gram can. he used one 100gram can and part of another. though the jetboil is heavier than my kit it is a lighter setup for long trips because you don't have to carry as much gas. plus it performed better in the cold weather and boiled his water at least twice as fast.
if you get a canister staove be sure to use a propane, iso-butane gas mix. straight butane won't perform in cold weather. butane boils into a gas at about 4 degress C.
can't help with the filter
The best advice I can give you... Start a backpacking hobby, and then one day take your bow hunting.
Since you asked... I use a Katadyne Hiker Pro (pull the cartridge out of it when you get home and let it dry) and an Optimus Crux Lite. The Soto Micro Regulator made it two trips before I broke one of the arms off that holds the pot. If it gets below freezing, toss your canister in the sleeping bag with you.
You could also save yourself a few years of hard knocks and track down EdT and go to one of his "Skills camps"
I've had really good luck with alcohol stoves, cheap and fun to play with. Google cat can stove and go from there. I've also had good luck with a kathadyn base camp, though any of the gravity options would probably make me happy. I'll probably pick up a filtering bottle for light/fast trips when I don't plan to do much cooking.
I'll second EdT's skills camp.
Katadyne Hiker Pro for water for sure.
I also like the Optimus products for the stove. It seems like the one I bought has been discontinued, but it the Crux Lite is similiar.
I like this http://emberlit.com/default.php for a stove and use a alcohol stove inside of it when I'm in a hurry or just want a cup of hot water.
For a filter I've been looking at the Sawyer inline
AWP,I used to backpack bowhunt a lot in WV and back then my stove was a Svea 123 which operates off Coleman fuel.An old design but super reliable.A few years ago I bought a Jetboil and I'm sure it would work great for what you want.They are quite an efficient little rig.
I assume you would be hunting mid October to maybe as late as mid Nov.I believe the Jetboil would handle that.It is a good idea to do a couple shakedown trips to familiarize with all new equipment,before you get into an actual hunting trip.
If you are talking about backpack hunting your home state,you sure have some beautiful country to do it in and opportunities for a bear are way better than when I lived there.Good luck with your venture.
Maybe some help from a chemist. re butane and cold weather ?
I believe the following to be true.
Both are simple hydrocarbons, composed only of carbon and hydrogen. Propane has three carbons, butane has four.
The boiling point of butane is listed as around .5 degrees C (in the low 30's F). That means below that point it is normally in liquid form. We are generally burning it in gaseous form, so it is not so easily available as a liquid.
Propane's boiling point is listed as around -42 degrees C. Realling stinking cold. Above that temperature it is in a gas form and is more available to burn in our stoves.
That is why propane works better in cold weather than butane.
Remember that liquid kept under pressure (in a can) can stay a liquid far above these temps, but to burn in our stoves, the stuff needs to boil and become a gas.
ChuckC
QuoteOriginally posted by AWPForester:
...what type of water purificator do you recommend. ...
IF you have water sources that offer fairly clear water where you hunt- more clear than lemonaid, than look into Steripen.
It uses ultraviolet light to transform the DNA of those little buggers that will make you sick into harmless nothings. I use mine in Colorado and love it. No filters for me anymore to clean or plug up or carry around. The Steripen is lighter, smaller and is easy to use.
They have used them in 3rd world countries for months on end and the peoples reviews for the last several years has been great- so its a tested in real life conditions product.
I like my SVEA 123 stove but they don't make them like they used to anymore so you would have to find an older used one. But if you prefer new things that you use, but don't need to understand, the 123 is probably not the stove for you. Google Svea 123 and read how trusted/beloved they are. Few wstoves work as well at elevation or when the chips are down.
Joshua
QuoteOriginally posted by Dan Adair:
The best advice I can give you... Start a backpacking hobby, and then one day take your bow hunting.
You could also save yourself a few years of hard knocks and track down EdT and go to one of his "Skills camps"
Great advice IMHO!!!
QuoteOriginally posted by Lost Arra:
1. Jet Boil- make your life simple
2. Katadyn Base Camp gravity filter- like having a faucet at camp.
I'm sure the other gravity filters work just as well. The Base Camp is the only one I've used.
Bought a JetBoil Flash for this year's elk hunt. I have been totally impressed with it in its tests here at home. it finished at 45 cups of water boiled at cold faucet low altitude. I believe it will do very well at altitude and really cold filtered stream water.
Click here for my thread on it. (http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=116238;p=1)
I, too, have used the Katadyn base camp and loved it, but...... I'm a gadget guy and bought a new filter this year. It's the Sawyer "All In One" system. Looks like it uses the same technology as my MSR Hyperflow without having to pump. Maybe ArkyBob will carry the Basecamp in his pack just for backup.
Snowpeak giga stove for me, similar to the MSR pocket rocket. MSR mini works filter works well.
My son and I each used the MSR Pocket Rocket butane stoves last year for elk hunting in Colorado. They weigh only 3 oz. and are 4" x 2" x 2". Wonderful little stoves that will boil one liter or water in four minutes. I would highly recommend this stove.
For water filtration, we used the MSR Sweetwater Microfilter. Another great product from MSR. You can't go wrong with either of these items!
Bernie
Ok, one thing to remember for Colorado for sure this year and probably some of the other Western States, you have to be able to shut off your stove, in other words the tablets you burn and the alcohol stoves aren't legal due to the burn ban restrictions, check the regs for where you are going, it's really bad this year for fire danger. Good Luck!
I found a Coleman Max butane/propane stove with one bottle of fuel and bought them for $25. a little hezvy but still light at 7 ounces. And it sure will burn hot. I also found the esbit and 18 tablets nib for $7.00 and bought it too. I came across a 2 litre bpa free bladder for base camp water supply for $8.00, a one quart Nalgene bpa free bottle with markings in ounces and .25 cup increments that weighs 8 ounces for $4.00 to carry while hunting and use for measured cooking water. I found a new aluminium US GI Aluminium quart cooking cup with butterfly handles for $4.00. And I paid .48 apiece for a heavy duty plastic coleman fork and spoon. I have a lot of the odds and ends to go with these
However, I still need a quart pot and aluminium plate to finish my custom mess kit, and a neoprene collapsable cup for hot drinks, a hammock, and 3 wool blankets as I intend to go with a hanging bedroll with a sleping pad under a tarp. I simply cannot justify the cost of a lite backpacking sleeping bag and a high dollar tent. This stuff is expensive! I intend to use the steri-pen and coffee filters for water.
I was fortunate enough to meet a fella that shared a pack list of his and a US Special Forces friend, that they used in CO the last 2 years and it has been very helpful. Get a 7 day hunt in the wilderness for under 35 pounds if you have a pack under 4 pounds. So my gear list is most definately being taylored to almost mimick theirs. I am losing about 3.5 pounds on my sleeping bedroll and hammock but am going to gain it back with a trail ax I intend to carry for base camp chores.
If anyone of you guys are interested in the list let me know and I will email it to you. I am getting pumped! God Bless
Plenty of good advice out there already but I'll chime in with my 2 cents because I've recently been tweaking my gear for this purpose.
Totally agree with all the filter recommendations. I have a Katadyn Hiker Pro and love it. After drinking that cold mountain water for a week the water back home will be a big disappointment to you. Downside to the filter is bulk and weight. Even if you pump it dry each time you use it, it will retain some water and with that factored in they'll all weigh close to a pound. That said, I wouldn't trade the taste of that filtered mountain water for all the super-small, super-light chemical treatments in the world.
For cooking, if you're only going to boil water for freeze-dried meals or coffee, check out the Halulite Minimalist cookset (~ $25) and pair it up with an iso fuel canister and a Snow Peak Giga Power Stove w/ piezo igniter. The whole works--fuel, stove, spork & pot gripper fits snugly inside the pot. That alone is priceless, but it also comes with a snug-fitting lid, which will shorten your time to boil and conserve fuel, and a neoprene sleeve to slide over everything when you stow it in your pack. All of these stoves will leave a little black soot on your cook pot, so the sleeve will keep everything inside your pack clean. The igniter is a nice to have...just speeds everything up if/when it works, but you'll want a backup lighter of some sort too.
I used an MSR Pocket Rocket on my last outing and it worked great, just won't fit inside the Halulite Minimalist like the Snow Peak will.
If you're really going to be miles out there, consider bringing an Esbit as a backup. You can fit several tabs in it when you fold it up, it weighs virtually nothing, and in a tight spot you can burn twigs in and get the job done.
FWIW...a few thoughts on what you just posted. My hunting buddies and I have been having these debates for years now, so I'm well versed. :)
The axe: forego the campfire and you can forego the 2 lb axe. Until you hike around in the mountains with 35 lbs on your back for a while, you just won't appreciate the need to bring ONLY what is required (including backups for critical items).
Mess kit: What are you going to be eating? If it's only freeze dried meals, all you need is one pot big enough to boil 2 cups of water, then you eat the meal directly out of the pouch. You can drink your coffee out of that pot too and it's easy to rinse out. And again, if it's only freeze dried meals, you don't need a fork AND a spoon--just one or the other and save the weight. If you don't want to spend the money on the freeze dried meals but you own a dehydrator, you can make your own in a ziploc bag & sew up a quick fabric pouch to keep from burning your hands. Lots of tips and recipes out on the web for this sort of thing.
Hammock: check out the DIY section of hammockforums.net. I sewed up my own double-layer (which allows you to put a sleeping pad in between the layers, where it will stay put) for probably $30. DIYgearsupply has the materials and the patterns that I used. My greater concern, though, would be where you are going and when? I'm not sure about the Rockies in September (bow season), but around 8,000 ft in CO in October, it gets down around 15-20 deg at night regularly and a foam pad just doesn't cut it for that.
I want to thank you for yor advice.
Concerning the mess kit, I have no plans on carrying all the pots and pans everytrip. I was only looking to acquire those to use on any given trip, depending on the cooking needs. Those fellas use those three items for any kind of cooking needs. I currently do not have but the old Military Surplus cup for oatmeal breakfast. And I will use it for the hot choclate as well.
I have also gotten the same advice from quite a few people concerning the ax. I reckon I am going to have to take your advice and leave it on the hunting expeditions. A lot of things you can do with an ax, and on summer trips where a campfire and staying around camp is reality, it has it place. But, chasing the Elk, bear, deer etc... all over the mountains of WV and Colorado, puts the priorities in order quickly. Thanks for saving me that lesson early.
Conerning the Hammock, I in fact plan on doing exactly what you suggested. I joined that forum last week! I have hunted in ColoRado at elevations above 10,000 feet in mid september and will attest to the 15-20 degree nights. I hope this bedroll idea is enough. I will have a hard time springing for the camping bags because I sincerely hate them. They bind me up and I flip out in them.
In my full size military mummy bag, I routinely wake up in a panic. It scares me for some reason. I flip out and just start writhng and I end up busting the zipper before I/they can get me out of it. I have put three zippers on it, so I have got to do something else. So hopefully the bedroll work.:>)
I sincerely appreciate your advice and thank you all very much for it. God Bless
3 wool blankets? You can't be serious, that's got to weigh 20 lbs. For a nice, cheap, backpacking sleeping bag look at the Kelty Cosmic 20 degree down bag. Usually can find them less then $100 and a darn good bag. Used one all last year withoit issue.
Here is a thought regarding a substitute for the wool blankets: Check out www.kifaru.net (http://www.kifaru.net) and look at their Woobie and Double Woobie. I think it would fit the bill perfectly for what you want in place of your mummy style bag.
Hope this helps.
Kevin
Biatholonman, refer to my last post. I am not kidding. In more mild weather of 20 degree or more 2 would work. They weigh less than 2 pounds a piece. Not idea but better than me in a mummy bag.
Kevin, Now that is what I am talking about. Thank you brother. One wool blanket, one woobie, or just one double woobie. Ought to work just fine. Thanks and God Bless
Glad to see you're willing to leave the ax behind. The campfire is a warm and welcome comfort at the end of a long day, but you could probably scrounge enough small wood that can be broken if it's really important to you.
Not sure what to say about your wool blankets. I know they're warm but the fact that the guys on HF never talk about using them would concern me a bit. Collectively, those guys have been around the block. I scrimped and saved for a down topquilt and down underquilt b/c it's super light and will keep me warm down to 0 or so, but you're talking about some serious coin for both, even if you find them used like I did. At a minimum, I'd wait for the coldest, nastiest night back home and try out your setup in the back yard. And again, you can make your own out of synthetics for a lot less, but they're bulkier. Thru-hiker sells good synthetic insulation as does outdoor wilderness fabrics. A thought if your wool doesn't work out...
Will do. The times that I will look to be backpacking is at different times of the year but the emps will minmic one another or close to it. So I will definately do that. I might just sew my own all together. God Bless
If the woobie interest you might I suggest the hill people gear mountain serape. Very light, warm and i think a little more versatile then the Kifaru offering.
Pocket Rocket and Iodine tablets. I like my water wet, could care less what it tastes like. Also saves money, weight and space.
If you are looking for an ultralight stove look into Aluminum Bottle Stoves (not to be confused with aluminum can stoves). A pocket rocket looks as big as a coleman two burner compared to these things. I just tried one for the first time this last weekend and I was impressed! Worked well in snotty weather here in the Chugach Mountains. I look forward to using it more in the future because it weighs nothing and takes up no space.
If you enjoy tinkering, you can make one w/instructions online. If time is worth more to you than money, you can buy them from Whitebox Stoves (http://www.whiteboxstoves.com/).
They run on de-natured alcohol solvent. I recommend bringing a wind screen or plan on using rocks, etc to protect the flame. I haven't tried them at altitude yet, but I'm sure someone has written their opinion about that online somewhere since these stoves are becoming popular on the ultralight scene.
I prefer Aquamira water treatment over iodine if you are going the chemical treatment route. More $, but lasts longer. I always seemed to get too much moisture in my iodine bottles (which ruins the tabs and renders them ineffective).
I have also been using a sil-nylon tarp and bivy combo instead of a tent a lot over the last couple years. This set up probably won't work for the O.P. since a bivy is way more claustrophobic than a mummy bag, but something to consider if you are looking to shave pounds off your pack.
I encourage the O.P. to keep an open mind and try another mummy bag. Maybe a larger, more roomy type of bag? Mummy bags do provide a good warmth-to-weight ratio once you get accustomed to them.
Msr pocket rocket and msr Titan titanium pot ( .85 liter). Fuel canister nests in pot. Ultralight and reliable. All u need if using dehy meals. Been using since they came out.... No problems
Second the hill people gear serape.
Msr miniwoeks backed up with katydine micropur tabs... U can save the weight and just go with the tabs, put some emergenc in it or something if it tastes to you. Lots of opinions there, google it.
You will find what works for u so go for it and keep at it.... It's an addiction, but a good one. Good luck.
Oh.... Surprised no has mentioned ti goat caldera stoves... That may throw a wrench in ur whole plan!
You can get pretty nutty with weight-saving if you want to. I used to go so far as to cut 70% of the handle off my toothbrush to make it lighter.
I agree with the other guys about the mess kit; keep it small, light, and simple. Dehydrated meals taste terrible at home, but are gormet in the mountains.
Campfires are definitely not required, and if you really need one you don't need an axe to pull it off. Just gather sticks and twigs and do it Indian style; build it small and sit close.
Weight is your arch enemy when backpacking; if you don't feel that way now, you will after hauling 60lbs uphill for a few miles. If weight is your enemy, a comfy pack is your best friend. Definitly don't go cheap on the backpack (or the boots!). Get the most comfortable one for you. All the bells and whistles will be just about useless if it hurts to wear it (same for the boots!). Once you get your gear together take the opportunity to get into the mountains for a few days and do some scouting. You'll want to be familiar enough with your gear that you can operate it all in the dark.
If you have never used a backpacking stove before, I highly recommend going with a butane/propane stove. They are by far the simplest to use. These stoves will work on butane or propane, and most canisters actually use a butane-propane mix to prevent the cold weather issues that you've heard about. I use an MSR Whisperlite that runs on gas (about 15 yrs old). It is super light and the stove sits on the ground, so it's nice and stable. MSR is making a new Wisperlite that runs on gas (butane/propane) and liquid (kerosene, alchohol, etc). If I ever need another stove I'd get that one. The control valve for the Whipserlite is mounted on top of the tank, so you can use a wind-screen and still control the flame. A wind-screen will save lots of time and fuel, and should always be used imo.
Good luck!
There is always down wood that you can break up with your hands and make a fire. X2 on not needing an axe. A wyoming saw will/can cut up some wood in a pinch and it does help in quartering an animal.
For some of you guys that pm'ed me about the list or are looking to make the perfect hammock instead on spending big bucks on it, check out DIY gear as 8Crow suggested. I just bought the stuff to do a very nice, strong, very lightweight hammock for uder $35 bucks including the suspension.
The prices for a commercial made hammock like this is going to push $150 minimium. I can build it in less than 30 minutes counting hemming time. When you consider the cost of a high dollar bacpacking tent, the hammock and DIY tarp is going to be less than $50 and 60-90 minutes of your time. All much lighter and less expensive than a tent.
Thought this might help a few. God Bless
As I love backpacking gear and usually only do so above 10000 feet. I've used many things my current favorite stove is the pocket rocket. Really small and light and a lighter fits nicely in the little plastic case. The snow peak canisters seem to last for 3days or so. If you're just boiling water most of these types of stoves work great. Big fan of the jetboil system as well. But I like the pots and packing systems of GSI soloist and dualist. As far as water treatment is concerned. I'm a fan of the steripen. I wasn't at first because I bought one and it failed me in the back country and thank god I took my old pump filter as a back up. REI returned it I got a new one and it's been great. Small light weight
This is a great little compact package. You might find it a little cheaper if you hunt for a bargain.
http://www.rei.com/product/783670/primus-etapack-lite-stove-system
Reading intently. Gearing up for my first Colorado hunt this fall. Got a blackwidow pack, Jetboil SOL Ti stove, MSR sweetwater system, Irish Setter Elk hunter boots, BA UL2 ultralite tent, Bean Katahdin 0 deg bag, frogg togg rain gear, thermarest neoair xlite pad. A few more items and I am ready. I am packing it all around 3-4 miles a day with a full 2L dromelite bladder. Weight has fully got my attention now for any more items going in that pack.
Msr hyperflow. Light packs small. High output.
Sterno folding stove is really really cheap but works great. I fried some in mine on my last trip.