Trad Gang

Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: Iowabowhunter on June 05, 2012, 08:35:00 PM

Title: Losing hope
Post by: Iowabowhunter on June 05, 2012, 08:35:00 PM
A fellow member on TG here has been extremely gracious in sending me arrows, field points and numerous tips hints and advice. He even spoke with me on the phone each time I called with any questions. What this boils down to is the bow I have was handed down to me by my grandfather, it is a Hawkeye Indian recurve, marked 50# @28 inches. I got a string made by Tom at Barefoot Tradition's here in Des Moines, a GN quiver (also from Tom) and some arrows online. I bought GT Trad 35-55's and left them full lenght. Thru trial and error, I have concluded that these arrows aren't going to work out. I tried a few of the full lenght, but mostly I have them cut at 29" (I draw just a little under 28) I tried field points ranging from 85-300 grains, and for the life of me cannot get good arrow flight. Ryan was gracious enough to send me some heavier spined GT 55-75's and other numerous arrows, along with most of the different field points. I have shot other bow's owned by friends and relatives, and can get them to shoot strait and have true flying arrows. For some reason, whoever shoots this Indian cannot get it to cast an arrow properly. My plan was to buy a Bear Montana longbow using the proceeds from my 2nd job, but unfortunately my wife and I came upon some financial struggles and that plan was nixed. I do love traditional archery, I do not however feel comfortable trying to harvest something with this bow, as the arrow flight with broadheads and field tips is unacceptable. Even target shooting has become stressful because with the bad arrow flight I seem to be unable to find any semblance of accuracy   :help:   I am hoping that things work out and I am able to purchase a different bow, any prayers would be appreciated! In the meantime I will continue to glean any helpful tips from the site, and will love the stories! Shoot straight and good hunting!
Title: Re: Losing hope
Post by: steadman on June 05, 2012, 08:40:00 PM
Keep your chin up Jacob, things will get better  :)
Title: Re: Losing hope
Post by: caihlen on June 05, 2012, 08:42:00 PM
I have a Martin ML 10 68 " 50 @ 28 that you can have for the shipping.  Say the word.  Couple of spare strings too...
Title: Re: Losing hope
Post by: Iowabowhunter on June 05, 2012, 08:45:00 PM
Thanks man, I am praying they do. At the end of the day our families and each other are still healthy, so we still find things to be greatful for. I realized that I spelled "length" wrong numerous times in my post  :knothead:   oh well. I do get to shoot the Montana at my 2nd job "Bass Pro" so that is nice!  :biglaugh:
Title: Re: Losing hope
Post by: steadman on June 05, 2012, 08:46:00 PM
Hey look at the post above yours  :thumbsup:  Good things happen to good people  :)
Title: Re: Losing hope
Post by: Rob W. on June 05, 2012, 08:46:00 PM
I would find someone in your area to take a look at it and watch you shoot. You could also post some pics or video of the bow setup and shooting. A 35/55 with around 175gr. up front should fly fine. I would look at other factors instead of the arrow.


Rob
Title: Re: Losing hope
Post by: Caughtandhobble on June 05, 2012, 08:47:00 PM
Keep at it bro... The 3555 with 175 should work out just fine for your setup or at least be reasonably close. Good Luck!!!
Title: Re: Losing hope
Post by: varmint101 on June 05, 2012, 08:48:00 PM
Man if you can watch those classifieds when you get enough extra cash.  I've almost pulled the trigger several times on a $200 Montana.  They don't shoot bad!
Title: Re: Losing hope
Post by: J. Holden on June 05, 2012, 08:57:00 PM
You didn't note trying anything other than different tip weights.  Have you tried adjusting your nock point on the string?  I would also second someone to watch you shoot or video yourself and post it.  There's a wealth of information on this site.  Hang in there and keep us posted.

-Jeremy   :coffee:
Title: Re: Losing hope
Post by: Iowabowhunter on June 05, 2012, 09:02:00 PM
I absolutely am just stunned by the generosity of the ladies and gentleman trad bowhunters. People I hardly know (if at all) willing to help one another out makes me proud to be a bowhunter   :pray:
Title: Re: Losing hope
Post by: Cyclic-Rivers on June 05, 2012, 09:02:00 PM
I almost gave up when someone asked if what my brace is at.  Turns out it was a simple solution but I never thought of it.  

Keep at it and things will improve.  

I would PM the post above yours, even if you only borrow the Martin bow  until things improve, sounds like a great gesture.

Good luck and dont give up.  Keep your chin up and things will improve at home sooner or later.
Title: Re: Losing hope
Post by: Iowabowhunter on June 05, 2012, 09:04:00 PM
Forgot to mention that Jerry! I tried a different string that was hand made at the trad archery shop, moved my nocking point from 1/8th all over, from 6.5-over 8" bh. What is worrisome was that much more accomplished trad archer's couldn't get the bow to shoot well, using the same and even some different arrows. I am beginning to wonder if there is an almost unnoticeable limb twist from the humidity in my grandpa's basement?
Title: Re: Losing hope
Post by: randy grider on June 05, 2012, 09:10:00 PM
I assume you are shooting feathers, and not plastic vanes ?have left the arrows full length? Add 100 grain inserts, than heavy points, and I bet they fly good. If all else fails put big feathers on, 5 1/2 " high profile, or even uncut if you have to.I have never shot an arrow out of a bow regardless of spine that flew bad with big feather fletchings. The plus to that is they sound really cool with big feathers!  DONT GIVE UP !
Title: Re: Losing hope
Post by: randy grider on June 05, 2012, 09:19:00 PM
I'll second the post about brace height too. A low brace hieght can cause really crappy arrow flight. A fat string will as well. The nocks should be just tight enough on the string to cling, but fall off if you lightly bump the string.
Title: Re: Losing hope
Post by: Iowabowhunter on June 05, 2012, 09:19:00 PM
Yep I am Randy 5.5 inch shield cut, they look really nice actually lol white barred cock feather and red barred hen feathers, they just unfortunately don't fly well! I made the mistake of putting insert glue on so I am afraid that the inserts aren't coming out
Title: Re: Losing hope
Post by: 2treks on June 05, 2012, 09:20:00 PM
I would look at the tiller, If savvy shooters can't get it to shoot well either then something is up with the bow,it sounds like you checked/adjusted what you can.
measure from each fade out to the string, it should be equal or better yet, about 1/4" more on the top.
what kind of rest do you have on the shelf?

Also, I would try some other arrow material like wood or maybe aluminum.
The secound hardest shaft I ever tried to tune was a GT.(1st was grizz stick)

CTT
Title: Re: Losing hope
Post by: Iowabowhunter on June 05, 2012, 09:33:00 PM
Yea thats what a much more accomplished and seasoned trad bow shooter said as well. It looks like a rug I would say? It isn't too hard but is stiff enough not to allow the arrow to fall down to the riser shelf either.
Title: Re: Losing hope
Post by: Wickles on June 05, 2012, 09:50:00 PM
Try a bear weather rest, it just might fix your problems.
Title: Re: Losing hope
Post by: Iowabowhunter on June 05, 2012, 09:51:00 PM
PM sent caihlen   :D
Title: Re: Losing hope
Post by: 2treks on June 05, 2012, 10:10:00 PM
I will check your bow out for you if you would like. Just let me know.
I think it would be cool to use your grandpas bow.
That Martin will be sweet as well. Nice offer Caihlen.
CTT
Title: Re: Losing hope
Post by: jonsimoneau on June 05, 2012, 11:22:00 PM
Hey bud. It's probably not the bow. Longbows and recurves are so simple yet can be tough to tune.  Carbon arrows can really be tough. Look at the charts and get some aluminum shafts to start with. Much easier to tune. If all else fails really work with your mock point and shelf. In my opinion the wrong nock point makes a major difference in arrow flight. A sixteenth of an inch can make a big difference. Even a handmade self bow can group arrows in a coffe cup at long range. It just takes a little work. You will get it. I would try paper tunning or bare shaft tunning.
Title: Re: Losing hope
Post by: Iowabowhunter on June 06, 2012, 03:16:00 PM
hey jonsimoneau, still pretty green when it comes to trad bows lol, what do you mean work with the shelf? I moved the nock point all over heck   :banghead:
Title: Re: Losing hope
Post by: Iowabowhunter on June 06, 2012, 03:19:00 PM
That's a fantastic buck in your pic by the way!
Title: Re: Losing hope
Post by: Jeff Roark on June 06, 2012, 03:26:00 PM
I'd put a bear weatherrest on it if you are shooting off the shelf. Maybe the riser is off someway.
Title: Re: Losing hope
Post by: Danny Rowan on June 06, 2012, 03:35:00 PM
How do your nocks fit on the serving? If too tight will cause eratic arrow flight. Should be just tight enough that if you tap the string the arrow will fall away. Also, if you are gripping the nock of the arrow with your fingers you can cause eratic arrow flight.
Title: Re: Losing hope
Post by: jonsimoneau on June 06, 2012, 03:36:00 PM
We can figure this out. First of all what exactly are your arrows doing when you shoot them?  Are they fish tailing cork screwing?  What does the shelf material look like?  Is the material possibly catching the quills of your fletching when you shoot?  As far as nock point goes it can be different for everyone but I would put it at 5/8ths to start with.   What exactly is your brace height set to?  Measure it from the deepest part of the grip to the string. Don't worry we will get it shooting right.
Title: Re: Losing hope
Post by: Jake Fr on June 06, 2012, 09:27:00 PM
well is it a radious shelf or flat also is she cut to or past center and you might dig around on the Web and see what the makers say bout it and chuck would be good to have look at her bowyers eyes often catch what we miss
Title: Re: Losing hope
Post by: straitera on June 06, 2012, 09:35:00 PM
Who is this Ken Cambell fellow w/55 posts wanting to give/loan a beautiful bow? Don't you know that's straight from the TG Heartfelt Handbook! Well done friend. God Bless you both! And the rest of my TG brothers involved. I can donate a stringer & glove. PM me.
Title: Re: Losing hope
Post by: Zradix on June 06, 2012, 09:43:00 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by straitera:
Who is this Ken Cambell fellow w/55 posts wanting to give/loan a beautiful bow? Don't you know that's straight from the TG Heartfelt Handbook! Well done friend. God Bless you both! And the rest of my TG brothers involved. I can donate a stringer & glove. PM me.
:clapper:    :clapper:
Title: Re: Losing hope
Post by: Zradix on June 06, 2012, 09:48:00 PM
I'd try paper tuning with your fletched arrows from about 5-6' away.

That paper will " take a snapshot " of your arrow flight.
It makes things LOTS easier when you can see the results of your adjustments plainly.
Title: Re: Losing hope
Post by: Gen273 on June 06, 2012, 09:49:00 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by caihlen:
I have a Martin ML 10 68 " 50 @ 28 that you can have for the shipping.  Say the word.  Couple of spare strings too...
This is one of the things that makes TradGang such a great place!

  :clapper:    :clapper:    :clapper:
Title: Re: Losing hope
Post by: huskyarcher on June 07, 2012, 11:23:00 AM
Got to love TG people, never seizes to amaze me. I had the same gift from Dannybows, he gave me this beautiful Howwatt for me to refinish. Here she is...

(http://i1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb428/huskyarcher/101_0299.jpg)

(http://i1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb428/huskyarcher/101_0300.jpg)

(http://i1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb428/huskyarcher/101_0303.jpg)
Title: Re: Losing hope
Post by: huskyarcher on June 07, 2012, 11:25:00 AM
And don't give up, anybody can pull back a contraption, settle the pin, and and squeeze, this is what makes Trad awesome! Keep at it, it will come man.
Title: Re: Losing hope
Post by: katie on June 07, 2012, 12:22:00 PM
Bass Pro, on my way there now. Will look for you. Good luck on the bow. Have you had the Bearfoot guys shoot it?
Title: Re: Losing hope
Post by: straitera on June 07, 2012, 01:08:00 PM
Killer bow Dalton!
Title: Re: Losing hope
Post by: H1tman7 on June 07, 2012, 01:12:00 PM
I am in the DM area, actually I believe you brought this bow into scheels when I was still working there.  You are more than welcome to run a few of my Easton FMJ's out of it to see how they do.  Also if you ever want to shoot, just txt or call me

Andy
816-three 9 two- 9 two 4 six
Title: Re: Losing hope
Post by: caihlen on June 09, 2012, 02:22:00 PM
Bow is on the way.  Enjoy.
Title: Re: Losing hope
Post by: huskyarcher on June 09, 2012, 03:29:00 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by caihlen:
Bow is on the way.  Enjoy.
good on you brother.
Title: Re: Losing hope
Post by: Iowabowhunter on June 11, 2012, 11:48:00 AM
Caihlen I can't tell you how much I appreciate it! I cannot say enough about the generosity found in this community, I hope to someday share a hunt with as many TGer's as possible!
Title: Re: Losing hope
Post by: Iowabowhunter on June 11, 2012, 11:52:00 AM
huskyarcher that is one sweet looking bow! Hope it shoots as well as it looks for ya   :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Losing hope
Post by: Iowabowhunter on June 11, 2012, 11:54:00 AM
Andy that would b cool, I'll send u a txt from a 515 #
Title: Re: Losing hope
Post by: on June 11, 2012, 12:09:00 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by caihlen:
Bow is on the way.  Enjoy.
T- gangers are kooool!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Losing hope
Post by: Iowabowhunter on June 11, 2012, 10:40:00 PM
The bow is in already!!! I will get some pics up when I find my wife's camera!
Title: Re: Losing hope
Post by: JamesKerr on June 11, 2012, 11:14:00 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by caihlen:
Bow is on the way.  Enjoy.
Good on you it is people like you that inspire me everyday  :clapper:
Title: Re: Losing hope
Post by: SELFBOW19953 on June 12, 2012, 08:25:00 AM
Jacob,

One thing to remember, make all of your changes 1 at a time and by small amounts.  All the things you have tried and all the things people are suggesting interact dramatically.  You can change the effective spine of an arrow by changing the arrow spine, arrow length, or point weight.  But you need to try them one at a time-if they don't work, put everything back to where you started and try something else.  Personally, I'd leave length as the last thing I changed-it gets expensive having to use a new arrow each time.

Another thing to remember is that recurves, especially older ones, have a pretty high brace height.  If 8" is as high as you've gone, that may not be high enough.  Hopefully, some others more knowledgeable than I will chime in.

For what it's worth, I plugged your general numbers into Stu's Dynamic Spine Calculator, and with GT 3555's 29" in length you need 200 gr points (assuming your bow is cut 1/8" from center).
Title: Re: Losing hope
Post by: KentuckyTJ on June 12, 2012, 08:58:00 AM
Jacob, do you have a nock tied on above and below your arrow nocks on your string?
Title: Re: Losing hope
Post by: Iowabowhunter on June 12, 2012, 01:12:00 PM
Nope just underneath and then I keep the nock down using split finger release. I am gonna buy some type of rest and hope that fixes the problem. Otherwise caihlen sent me a lobbied to try and I will be shooting that!!!