Trad Gang

A couple of weeks back, I made a verbal trade over the phone with a customer who insisted that he was honest and his word was solid.

The agreement, he was to send me his bow and a check and I was to send him a new Bear TD riser and limbs of his choice. It was also requested that I try the fit of the limbs in sockets of the riser and confirm that they fit tightly without slop. This I did and I boxed everything up and sent it on.

After returning from an event, I found a message on my machine from the same man claiming that I hadn't done what I promised and that he had to modify the limbs just to assemble the bow and he wasn't happy. The bow, while strung was now very crooked.

After a heated discussion and me being accused of being a liar, the man demanded his bow and check back (I haven't even opened his box to this day) and  he was sending me mine back.

I received the bow today, verified that he indeed modified one of the limbs (sanded away the mating surface of the limb). I strung the  bow to determine the damage and confirmed the crookedness of the altered bow.

I then mounted another new set of limbs and strung them to find out that with the unaltered limbs, the bow strung perfectly.

I have spoke to bear and explained the entire scenario. They told me "BigJim, we will replace them for you to help you out of this mess"

I told them that I didn't feel that it was their responsibility to take the loss just to keep someone from running down my name and refused to allow them to replace them.

Here's the question or questions:
Do you think I should have let a "big company" like Bear take a loss just so this man could have his way? Afterall, it is just a big company with lots of money.
Would you ask me to do this?
By the way, I still have his bow and check as I needed to see what damage he had done to mine first.
Thanks, bigjim

He should eat a set of limbs at a minimum,
Aint never known you to be anything but honest Jim. If it was crooked to start with, he should have sent it back straight away. No harm- no foul. And I think you did the right thing with Bear, they got no dog in this fight.

my 2cents

CTT

Everyone will have an opinion on this type of thing....some good , some bad. You are the one in business and only you can decide which way you want this to go.I guess I don't know why if they didn't fit properly in the first place why the customer would modify them...but he did! Hope it turns out well!

Jim,  As soon as he altered, sanded, played with the fit of any of the components, it is HIS.  If it didn't fit like you sent it to him he might have a point, but in dealing with you as I have in the past, I'm sure he wouldn't have been dissatisfied with the final outcome.  He screwed up when he took the sanding block to them.  Good luck with the outcome, but your reputation as a solid guy to deal with is secure in my mind.

To be honest, while it's not their fault, Bear is big enough to replace the limbs with no damage to their bottom line.  They know that these things happen and it's the least disruptive thing to do.  Unfortunately business is not what it used to be.  I think you are opening yourself up to some time in small claims court if you don't "use" Bear's gracious offer.

I would accept Bear's offer to replace the limbs and send that no good SOB his bow and check back and tell him that you have severed your "working relationship" with him and that he can get his riser and limbs somewhere else.  You sending him another set would be COMPLETELY off the table!

I agree with Chuck, he should eat the cost of a set of limbs. However....

Depends on what you personally willing to tolerate. If you can and are willing to just let it go that can be easier.

Looking to the end result: is there any realistic way you will ever get the cash out of him? Is keeping his bow worth the trouble of having him spew bad things about your company? This is an unfortunate situation for you and only you know the answer you can live with for you and the name of your company. Do what will give you the best results financially and business wise.


Just my opinion and sorry you are dealing with this. I have heard a number of good things about your company.

-Charlie

He at least owes you for messing up the limbs you sent. If you can get the cost of the limbs from selling the bow he sent you send him back his check and the damaged limbs and keep the bow, or send him the bow and cash his check. He may, however, may have stopped payment on the check. I would at least keep the bow.

QuoteOriginally posted by Bill Sant:
Jim,  As soon as he altered, sanded, played with the fit of any of the components, it is HIS.  If it didn't fit like you sent it to him he might have a point, but in dealing with you as I have in the past, I'm sure he wouldn't have been dissatisfied with the final outcome.  He screwed up when he took the sanding block to them.  Good luck with the outcome, but your reputation as a solid guy to deal with is secure in my mind.

x2!

Certainly the buyer is at fault - you just can't ruin the product and expect the business to eat it.  You buy a pair of shoes, you don't like them fine send them back UNLESS you walked outside with them on and scuffed the sole - then you bought them.  No different here.

The other side of the coin is this........how much stress are willing to put into this?  And #2 no matter what you do, the buyer will still likely bad mouth you.  You're damned if you do and damned if you don't.

Get out of it what you can and move on.  Those of us who have done business with you know you are an honest man.

QuoteOriginally posted by Guru:
 

QuoteOriginally posted by Bill Sant:
Jim,  As soon as he altered, sanded, played with the fit of any of the components, it is HIS.  If it didn't fit like you sent it to him he might have a point, but in dealing with you as I have in the past, I'm sure he wouldn't have been dissatisfied with the final outcome.  He screwed up when he took the sanding block to them.  Good luck with the outcome, but your reputation as a solid guy to deal with is secure in my mind.

x2! [/b]

X3    :mad:

For all Honorable Men... Do not read if you are not Honorable.

Big Jim,

God gave us a Metering Device of Customer Service. It is our gut. In our gut, we know, what is right or wrong.

You are an Honorable man. So, as long as you have done what your "gut" told you to do, it is the right thing.

Matt

QuoteOriginally posted by Bill Sant:
Jim,  As soon as he altered, sanded, played with the fit of any of the components, it is HIS.  If it didn't fit like you sent it to him he might have a point, but in dealing with you as I have in the past, I'm sure he wouldn't have been dissatisfied with the final outcome.  He screwed up when he took the sanding block to them.  Good luck with the outcome, but your reputation as a solid guy to deal with is secure in my mind.

X4

QuoteOriginally posted by Bill Sant:
Jim,  As soon as he altered, sanded, played with the fit of any of the components, it is HIS.  If it didn't fit like you sent it to him he might have a point, but in dealing with you as I have in the past, I'm sure he wouldn't have been dissatisfied with the final outcome.  He screwed up when he took the sanding block to them.  Good luck with the outcome, but your reputation as a solid guy to deal with is secure in my mind.

X5

Well put Bill!

The whole "Wal-Mart customer service expectation" (I can do anything / not bear any responsibility myself and YOU have no right to  ask any questions when I want my $ back) that some folks have is a real head scratcher. What I WOULD do is quite different from what I might WANT to do in a case like this.

Jim , You did the right thing with Bear and the customer is responsible for the damage and should take the hit for the limbs. You will have a bad costumer from time to time and thats part of dealing with people . You are solid gold as far as I'm concerned and everyone else that knows you as well I am sure .   :thumbsup:

QuoteOriginally posted by Bill Sant:
Jim,  As soon as he altered, sanded, played with the fit of any of the components, it is HIS.  If it didn't fit like you sent it to him he might have a point, but in dealing with you as I have in the past, I'm sure he wouldn't have been dissatisfied with the final outcome.  He screwed up when he took the sanding block to them.  Good luck with the outcome, but your reputation as a solid guy to deal with is secure in my mind.

X6

Per your post.....

"I received the bow today, verified that he indeed modified one of the limbs (sanded away the mating surface of the limb). I strung the bow to determine the damage and confirmed the crookedness of the altered bow."

He altered it, he pays for it. No question!

Matt

QuoteOriginally posted by Raging Water:
For all Honorable Men... Do not read if you are not Honorable.

Big Jim,

God gave us a Metering Device of Customer Service. It is our gut. In our gut, we know, what is right or wrong.

You are an Honorable man. So, as long as you have done what your "gut" told you to do, it is the right thing.

Matt

x2

Jim, Let yourself settle down from the initial frustration and anger, then go with your gut feeling on what you feel is right. Just by posting this issue you show your integrity. You will come out the winner, Jim, whatever your decision.

Everything has pretty much been covered. If he had a problem with what you sent, he should have returned it to you, untouched, and explained his issue. The minute he took it upon himself to make alterations, he bought it. If he wants a new set of limbs,he buys them.

LD

QuoteOriginally posted by Gen273:
 

QuoteOriginally posted by Bill Sant:
Jim,  As soon as he altered, sanded, played with the fit of any of the components, it is HIS.  If it didn't fit like you sent it to him he might have a point, but in dealing with you as I have in the past, I'm sure he wouldn't have been dissatisfied with the final outcome.  He screwed up when he took the sanding block to them.  Good luck with the outcome, but your reputation as a solid guy to deal with is secure in my mind.

X4 [/b]

Exactly!

I've done business with you as well and I know you are a well respected man of your word(not to mention the fact that you make beautiful bows!).

It's a tough decision about deciding exactly what to do about him, though.

I guess I would be very tempted to just send him back the Bear T/D bow with a letter stating that when he altered the bow/limbs without contacting you first, he made a big mistake. He should take the loss from being ignorant, not you.

QuoteBill Sant

Jim, As soon as he altered, sanded, played with the fit of any of the components, it is HIS.  

Yep--I agree.  That's standard with pretty much anything you buy.

Chad

QuoteOriginally posted by Bill Sant:
Jim,  As soon as he altered, sanded, played with the fit of any of the components, it is HIS.  If it didn't fit like you sent it to him he might have a point, but in dealing with you as I have in the past, I'm sure he wouldn't have been dissatisfied with the final outcome.  He screwed up when he took the sanding block to them.  Good luck with the outcome, but your reputation as a solid guy to deal with is secure in my mind.

I agree - once he took the sander to the limbs he owned it!!!!!  If it wasn't right when he got it he should have sent it back right then.  

These situations are tough...suppose you were to send the sanded set back to him and tell him since he sanded them he bought them...YOUR name NOT HIS would be drug through the mud from him blabbing to everyone how your screwed him over...his lack of honesty and good business would somehow be brushed under the rug.    

Despite that...I believe your reputation will stand on its own...I would send the limbs back and tell him tough crap...you should have never sanded on them!...Period!

I say it's His! But as others have said follow your gut feeling. Sorry you have to deal with it at all. On a lighter note I wonder if he'd been so quick to call you a liar in person while looking up at you?  :saywhat:

I wold agree with most.  If he felt the limbs did not fit to his liking he should have boxed them back up and sent them back with the expectation of his bow and check back.  But sanding the limbs to make them fit to his concept of proper fit ruined the limbs.  His bad, his loss, his lesson.

Jim I just got off the phone with your customers double (in my place of work)....  all I can say my friend is there are those in the world that are a half a bubble or better off plumb. They are just not honorable people. There ain't no fixin it, they are what they are. I feel for you Jim.

quote:
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Originally posted by Bill Sant:
Jim, As soon as he altered, sanded, played with the fit of any of the components, it is HIS. If it didn't fit like you sent it to him he might have a point, but in dealing with you as I have in the past, I'm sure he wouldn't have been dissatisfied with the final outcome. He screwed up when he took the sanding block to them. Good luck with the outcome, but your reputation as a solid guy to deal with is secure in my mind.
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X4

Whatever you do BigJim it'll be the right thing.

I think it says alot about Bear and how much they think of YOU!

I agree with "go with your gut."

It sounds like you've been done dirty to me, Jim.  But the "contract" will determine the rules of play.  If there are "no refunds" on altered merchandise -- and most people understand that if you break/modify it, you buy it -- then you have no obligation to eat the loss.  There may be a bit of a difference between what is clearly the fair and equitable thing to do, and what is "enforceable" per the contract.

Take a belt sander to his bow & mail it back to him. See how he likes it!

What Chuck and Bill said!

I am with everyone else.

I say he sends a payment for the limbs. You hold the bow and do not cash his other check (he probably cancelled it anyway). Once you get payment for the limbs and it clears, ship him back his bow, his check and his limbs (that he modified).

Then put him on your list of guys not to do business with.

That is just my opinion.

Until the deal was done, why anyone would modify the limbs is beyond me. Once he owns it and the deal is done he can burn the limbs if he wants but not before.

There are two sides to every story so I am basing my opinion on your side only.

Gil

It also makes me feel good about Bear Archery as a company, if nothing else. Nice going Bear, good job.

One day I have to get another takedown.

Gil

QuoteOriginally posted by coaster500:


quote:
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Originally posted by Bill Sant:
Jim, As soon as he altered, sanded, played with the fit of any of the components, it is HIS. If it didn't fit like you sent it to him he might have a point, but in dealing with you as I have in the past, I'm sure he wouldn't have been dissatisfied with the final outcome. He screwed up when he took the sanding block to them. Good luck with the outcome, but your reputation as a solid guy to deal with is secure in my mind.
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X4

X5

Jim, I would have done exacactly what you have done. Thjats the right thing and sometimes it hurts. Its one of those un-seen costs of doing business in a day and time where folks are sometimes a bit more dis honest and dis honerable than in times past.
You can look in the mirror and know you are right and thats what counts Bro.

Like some others have said , whatever you did I believe that with your reputation and work ethic that it would have been the right thing and that this guy that is doing this to you is more than a bit less than honest.

I hope he reads this and perhaps sees how the perception is most favorable to you and less than favorable to him.;

I deeply admire what Bear offered but do not feel that it is their responsibility. The deal was between you and him and that is how it should stay.
Sometimes its just a good thing to get one of these kind of deals behind you and forget it. Remember the name though and if you ever see him buying a bow from me please let me know. LOL

God bless you , Steve

Sounds like a bonehead.  They are out there.  Dealt with a few of them myself.

He shouldn't expect you to take the limbs back after he modified them.  He should have sent them back before he did that.

If he doesn't want to pay for the limbs that he modified, then just modify his bow and send it back along with his check and call it even.   :)

Big Jim, those of us that have done business w/ you know better, nobody's going to run your name down!  :nono:

QuoteOriginally posted by robtattoo:
Take a belt sander to his bow & mail it back to him. See how he likes it!

Oh, man - I like the way you think!

Matt

When dealing with the public, there has to be an idiot or two that turns up. Sounds like he is yours. He screwed up the limbs, and now you are somehow the bad guy in his feeble mind. Those of us who have dealt with you in the past know that you are a straight up guy, so even if he tried to bad mouth you on this site he would not be well received. Do whatever your judgement tells you to do in this case, but keep putting out the great work and the great service that we have come to know from you, and this little scenario will soon be history.
He had better be glad that it wasn't me he was dealing with; I probably would have included "and the horse you rode in on" in my response to him.

QuoteOriginally posted by robtattoo:
Take a belt sander to his bow & mail it back to him. See how he likes it!

There's the response I was looking for!!! I am with Rob on this one!

Jim, I have never done business with you (Well I bought a book from you at the Hill shoot this past weekend) but I have read and heard enough about you to know that you trusted this jerk to do the right thing and you got burned! I am also pretty sure that if the same scenario came around in a few weeks you would probably take someone at his word all over again because that is just how so many of us in the Trad community are. You also did not let Bear eat the cost because of your character. Don't let the jerk change who you are or cause you to change your values or moral compass. And if you would like anyone to go with you to hand deliver his bow back to him I am sure you can find a few of us to tag along with you for "Moral Support"!   :bigsmyl:

I agree with everyone else,he should have sent them back before he modified them,although I really like Rob's idea.LOL  :knothead:

QuoteTake a belt sander to his bow & mail it back to him. See how he likes it!  

I'd imagine that crossed a few minds--it has mine in similar situations--but if you give it a little thought you'll realize that going down to his level won't solve the problem, could likely just cause more problems, and it wouldn't be the honorable thing to do.

He bought the bow, he screwed it up, it's his.  Great to know that Bear will stand behind their products to that degree--sure makes me take another look--but no sense in throwing gas on the fire.  In my opinion of course.

Chad

his fault, his lost.

QuoteOriginally posted by Two Dogs:
Big Jim, those of us that have done business w/ you know better, nobody's going to run your name down!   :nono:  

+1!
Make him pay for the ruined limbs.

I think no matter what you do the dude will drag your name through the mud.  Do what you need to do to minimize your losses as quick as possible and move on from this bad situation.

I've never personally done any business with you, but your reputation based on what I've read here on Trad Gang suggests to me that all the bad mouthing this guy could dish out wouldn't put a dent in your business.

An older gent once told me in a somewhat similar situation where I was railing about idiocy of another person's behavior:"Son," he said, "if you're going to use logic to try to understand an illogical person's behavior, who's the fool?"

If this guy couldn't put limbs on and string a bow with functionally correct limbs, you've got a first-class, outa the closet, IDJUT.

Only way he could be dumber would be to be a wee bit bigger perhaps!

Whatever you do, do it for YOU and to your caliber of values. A man of his caliber cannot be made happy. Keep that in mind.

He chose to modify the limbs prior to speaking with you.......his choice, his cost.

I'd say the feller just bought a set of limbs...If he thought they were'nt right he should have sent them back untouched.

Eric

He owes you for the limbs, no brainer.

Wow, the guy should have called you before grinding on the limbs..I wonder if he tried to put the bottom limb in the top limb pocket??.. Not your fault BigJim or Bears fault, when the sand paper touched the limb it became his.. All new Fred Bear bows come with a factory warranty. If they didn't fit then send em back..

Jim,give it a couple of more days and maybe the guy will see that he is the one who is "at fault" and maybe he will send you the money for the limbs... Thumbs up to Bear Archery for the offer of limb replacement! But this is between you and the "other guy".. Like others have already said "BigJim is a good guy to buy from" I have bought many dozens of arrow shafts and accessories from you and will continue to do so.

BigJim,This is one of those deals that went bad.After having dealing with you myself I know what type of person you are.The guy is in the wrong and everyone here knows that.You are in a business that depends on the public for retail sales.This guy will never due business with you again no matter what you do.If Bear will help you out its because they respect you as a business man and a person.I would take their offer to replace the limbs.That way you know that you have done everything you can and it should feel good to know that Bear Archery has your back.You just have to laugh about being called a lier.We all know better than that.It would be foolish for someone to come on here and bad mouth you in public,they would get tarred and featherd to say the lease.Just my take on this cause you asked.

Now for the more serious things,wheres my TC.You know our deal is good.....    :biglaugh:    

Danny

Guess I'm outnumbered BY A LARGE NUMBER Big Jim.

The guy pays for the damaged limbs.    :readit:  

Sometimes doing what's right will not be popular, but you have to do it.  I was just trying to save you some headache and the more I think about it, I have to say the headache is the best way to go.

:dunno:   Has this guy never seen a picture of Big Jim?

Send him a picture of you holding a bill for the set of limbs he jacked up!!! LOL!

You don't owe the jerk anything,He damaged the limbs.
I'd send him him his stuff back and tell him have a nice life after the check clears.

I still think you should go with Robtatoo's idea

Big Jim....
   Sometimes ya wind up with a customer, that no matter what ya do, your still screwed....
   Ive had one so far, and dont want another....
Fred Bear respects you as their customer and are just trying to help ya....
   As mentioned above, go with your gut....
Good luck.

Jim ;  Also being in business I believe that if the man did not like the deal he should have sent it back after talking to you, as a adult not a jerk,  before he altered it. Since he altered it  I would try to explain that he has damaged the merchandise and to please send a money order for it. He can cancel a check. After it has been recieved I would return his bow andoriginal check.  Just my opinion .   Jim Pyles  J.P. Enterprises

Jim it would take a more than a couple guys to hurt your reputation. You are Man of your word and we all know that.

I have been self employed for 16 yrs and know it's not easy to please everyone, that said:

1 post his name here so we all know the bozo

2 send him his bow and a check for the riser. Make him pay for the limbs he ruined.

My opinion

quote:
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Originally posted by Bill Sant:
Jim, As soon as he altered, sanded, played with the fit of any of the components, it is HIS. If it didn't fit like you sent it to him he might have a point, but in dealing with you as I have in the past, I'm sure he wouldn't have been dissatisfied with the final outcome. He screwed up when he took the sanding block to them. Good luck with the outcome, but your reputation as a solid guy to deal with is secure in my mind.

Ditto....

Jim it would take a more than a couple guys to hurt your reputation. You are Man of your word and we all know that.

I have been self employed for 16 yrs and know it's not easy to please everyone, that said:

1 post his name here so we all know the bozo

2 send him his bow and a check for the riser. Make him pay for the limbs he ruined.

My opinion

I have no doubt, after the few dealings I've done with you that you've been fair with this person and he is unreasonable.

It seems that Bear values the relationship they have with you and they are eager to do you a favor they know they aren't obligated to do. Sometimes a company likes to provide legendary service because it is worth it's weight in Gold.

I hate to see a person (this customer) treat someone badly, do something ill-advised, and get off scott-free.  However, if the guy has even an ounce of decency he at least has been torn up by this whole thing, so maybe he's paid a price?

I'd cut ties with him pronto and return his goods and accept Bears offer to do you a favor.  No need to editorialize and tell him not to bother you again, etc. If he ever tries to do business again THEN you could let him know he is too difficult to satisfy and you choose not to try.

BigJim,
If the riser is is still in new condition maybe out of the kindness of your big heart refund him for that. By all means make him pay for the damage to the limbs by either keeping his bow or his check (which ever covers the value of the limbs) if he hasn't stopped payment on it yet. I wouldn't even concern yourself with this person hurting your reputation because you're way beyond a stand up guy and this guy sounds like nothing but HUMAN GARBAGE! Just remember trying to make this guy happy is impossible and only going to cost you. Thanks,
Jake

I agree the limbs are his. When did it go from him being a customer to beng a competent bowyer in his mind I wonder. Part of life is picking and choosing your battles and I think I would take this one head on just out of principle. No one will ever question your reputation on here and he wont run that mouth very far before being set straight by someone who knows better in the traditional brotherhood. Sometimes you just have to make a stand for right over wrong. Anyway, wish you the best on this.

I cant imagine why anyone would alter before speaking with you. Tough situation for you I'm sure. As Raging Waters said, go with your gut. You know what you need to do.
If Bear can help you, great. Very kind of them and it wont hurt them as much as it hurts the small business guy like you.
As far as the guy getting his way, what goes around comes around. Get rid of all ties to him,then forget about him. Not worth your getting all worked up over. Not worth it Jim. You've got a solid business going for you.

I apreciate all the kind words and really only posted this because of my frustration as of late.
I already knew what I was going to do and am a little ashamed that I lost my cool while on the phone with this guy (who will remain nameless).

I may not agree with someone, but I'm always polite or at least sarcastic in a fun kind of way.

As far as business goes, Bear knows as do those with experience that it is easy when there are no issues. A quality company can be measured on how they handle there problems. I commend them for there willingness to help, but this one's for me to handle.
thanks again, bigjim

Large, in my simple way of seeing things, he confirmed ownership of the Bear when he took it upon himself to alter the limbs. He had no reason to do that to a pair of limbs you still owned.

I don't see your reputation being harmed, if you decide to push back. Teach him a lesson and you just might prevent another bowyer from having to deal with same foolishness.

BigJim,
You haven't made it this far by not knowing what to do. I'm sure whatever you do will be right.

My opinion.  as soon as he altered the limb(s) he bought the bow.  He could have sent it back and complained, sounds like he would have anyway.

To me this is a no brainer and I would personally be ashamed if anyone I knew pulled a stunt like that.

I wouldn't accept the bow back in return without some recompense for the ruined limb(s).
ChuckC

Bill him for the limbs at a minimum.  That sounds low to me.  But, I'm not in the business.  Best wishes!

QuoteOriginally posted by robtattoo:
Take a belt sander to his bow & mail it back to him. See how he likes it!

Funny this is what the guy on my right shoulder was saying even though i agree with every one else as far as altered merchandise.

If it wasn't what he wanted, he should have immediately sent it back or at least called before he sanded it.

BigJim I've never dealt business with you personally, but I've interacted with many people who have, none of whom could come up with anything bad to say about you and the way you do business.  I understand your frustration with the situation and can't understand how this man thinks he has a case for reimbursement after he knowingly altered the limbs, making proper assembly impossible.  I have faith you'll make the right call on this and am glad you shared this with us.  I have, as yet, never had a problem dealing with people in the traditional archery community, but I know my day is coming.  The best we can all do it remember that there is another person on the other side of every deal and honor our word in such deals.  This man chose to violate your trust and the way you conduct business.  In my mind you have no more obligations to him.  I wish you hadn't had to deal with this, but we all know not everyone is as honest as our closest friends.  Best of luck in resolving this situation.
-Nathan

This guy is going to slam you no matter what you do.  But the people he will slam you to probably already realize the kind of guy they are dealing with.   :readit:  

Your reputation is solid.  Take the course of action that you think is best for your business.  I applaud Bear for offering to work with you on this and I applaud you for not taking them up on it.

If this was a personal transaction I would say lesson learned don't interact with this guy again.  But if I was running a business like you are, I would be more inclined to hold his bow until he paid for the damaged limbs.

Amen Gregg, that's going above and beyond.  Good luck Jim and good for being the Man here.

im my opinion if there wasnt a correct fit he should have contacted you instantly with pictures and sent the bow back. However he went ahead and made them worse, or ruined them himself and that makes it impossible to know for sure what happened. If I checked it and knew there was nothing wrong with the bow and he went ahead and did this I would not refund his money or bow. Even if I did he would be repplacing the limbs he screwed up.

As far as reputation and a stand up fella,they don't come any better than you my friend.With all your interactions with everyone on here no one will ever doubt your decision.If this person wants to knock heads with you and your intergrity he has as much chance as a dwarf in a slam dunk contest.
I applaud Bear,as they know which side to support and agknowledge.

He modified the limbs without contacting you, IMO he just bought the limbs.

If he has already mailed the bow back, he needs to pay shipping and HANDLING fees for the safe return of his limbs and riser. Or he could pick them up at your shop.

The bottom line is he is going to bad mouth you no matter what you do at this point. You know that he has cancelled the check (if personal check). Sometimes you have to just go with your heart. You will win any small claim court case or at least I would hope so in today's world.

Good luck, I'll continue to do business with you!!!

The way I would handle this would surly get me in trouble, so I'm not even going to suggest what I would do to the customer.

There is, however, one other thing I'm thinking about. If you decide to except this as a loss, would it be possible to repair the damage, resell as  2nds and recover a little bit?

Just a crazy thought.   :dunno:

Im sorry, but I was raised old school and I dont understand some of modern societys inabiltiy to take responsibility for their actions. The answer is black and white if the bow had not been sanded it would have been in the condition you sent it to him in, but alas it was not. This person sanded on a new product, not Big Jim bow company or Big Jim himself. You are entitled to compensation for your product, anyone who would suggest you or bear take it in the shorts for the stupiidity of another is just buying in to the socialist mentality of modern society.

I'll address my comments to the "other guy". Fellow, the instant you started sanding on that limb you owned it. Now do the right thing and settle up. I have spoken with Jim at length on several occasions and he has always come across as being up front and honest. Also, Jim is b-i-g! Did you know that he played college football? I believe that he is fair and a gentleman, but I don't think you ought to get him aggravated. Big Jim, like the rest of us is just trying to make an honest living.

  :dunno:

The right thing would be for the customer to take responsibility for what he has don't but we all know that won't happen. Unfortunately in today's society crap like this happens way too often and cause the honorable people to question themselves.
Jim,
This comes down to whether you care what this guy says or not. I know the worst thing for me is to question my word. As you can tell from all of the people on here, we are not questioning your word or your honor. We do all hate that you are in the situation that you are in, because we all know what kind of person you are. No one can really answer your questions for you, unless they have there own company and have been in a similar situation. I wish You and your company the best! Everyone that matters knows you are a great guy and an honorable business man.

Double post sorry

Dear other fellow,
Trade your vehicle in on a new one, then take that new one home and rewire it, then wanna trade it back, and see what they tell you.

Large has too many people standing in line, waiting on bows, to waste his time dealing with something that borders on premeditated stupid.

I guess if it was me I would have called you prior to altering the limbs! Once I would have altered the bow at all I would have considered it mine!

My book he just bought a set of limbs.If he wasn't happy with it,he shouldn't have altered the limbs but returned the bow.

If the limbs did not fit I would have sent them back to you . "fixing" them myself makes them mine in my opinion. I would not expect Bear to replace them as they are as innocent on the damage limbs as you are.The fellow that ground them is at fault and should pay for his actions.
A simple phone call before messing with the limbs could have saved a big headache for him. RC

The only person's workmanship you can stand behind is your own and not someone elses.

Straight up.. not on you! nor on Bear!

God's grace and peace, Mudd

He "broke" it, A.K.A. sanded it, he bought it.  My opinion though.

-Jeremy  :coffee:

QuoteOriginally posted by hardtimes:
 

QuoteOriginally posted by Bill Sant:
Jim,  As soon as he altered, sanded, played with the fit of any of the components, it is HIS.  If it didn't fit like you sent it to him he might have a point, but in dealing with you as I have in the past, I'm sure he wouldn't have been dissatisfied with the final outcome.  He screwed up when he took the sanding block to them.  Good luck with the outcome, but your reputation as a solid guy to deal with is secure in my mind.

X6 [/b]

x?

QuoteOriginally posted by rraming:
 

QuoteOriginally posted by hardtimes:
 

QuoteOriginally posted by Bill Sant:
Jim,  As soon as he altered, sanded, played with the fit of any of the components, it is HIS.  If it didn't fit like you sent it to him he might have a point, but in dealing with you as I have in the past, I'm sure he wouldn't have been dissatisfied with the final outcome.  He screwed up when he took the sanding block to them.  Good luck with the outcome, but your reputation as a solid guy to deal with is secure in my mind.

X6 [/b]

x? [/b]

Ditto.

We all need to be accountable for our actions and yes sometimes it hurts.  This buyer took it upon himself to alter the limbs.  He needs to pay the price for that.

Thank you for not passing it on to Bear because in some small way it works back to raise their expenses and then their prices for others.

QuoteOriginally posted by Thumper Dunker:
 

QuoteOriginally posted by rraming:
 

QuoteOriginally posted by hardtimes:
   

quote:

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Originally posted by Bill Sant:
Jim,  As soon as he altered, sanded, played with the fit of any of the components, it is HIS.  If it didn't fit like you sent it to him he might have a point, but in dealing with you as I have in the past, I'm sure he wouldn't have been dissatisfied with the final outcome.  He screwed up when he took the sanding block to them.  Good luck with the outcome, but your reputation as a solid guy to deal with is secure in my mind.

X6 [/b]

x? [/b]

Ditto.

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x ?