Trad Gang
Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: buckeye_hunter on June 02, 2012, 08:23:00 PM
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I was curious to get some input on shooting deer, pigs, elk and other animals when they were looking at you.
I have always passed up shots on deer that were looking at me. I figured they would have no problem ducking the arrow and be gone. I let one good buck and a doe go just this last year in this situation on public land. The shots were very makable(5-15 yards)if the deer weren't looking at me. Maybe I should have taken the shot? By passing up those 2 shots I didn't release an arrow at ANY deer last year.
Anyway, I have shot at squirrels and groundhogs that were looking at me and they EASILY got out of the way of my arrow.
So here are the questions for those of you with experience shooting at large game animals that were looking at you or in your direction before you released the arrow...
1. Do you just aim lower since they are likely spookier?
2. Do you think it is a tough shot and should be passed up most of the time?
3. How did the animal actually react when you shot if they were looking at you? (I imagine they ducked and rolled left or right at the shot.)
4. Were you wearing plaid, camo or ghillied up?
5. How long did the deer look at you before you shot?
I probably missed a few questions, but look forward to your input. I usually only hunt public land and often a deer won't give me the perfect "looking away" shot. I am trying to decide from other hunter's real experience whether or not I should let an arrow go in this type of situation.
Thanks in advance for your advice.
-Charlie
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I can't remember a time when I've shot a big game animal looking at me for the reasons you list above.
Another reason not to shoot when looking at you is they can see the movement of the bow and your follow-through.
I do remember a Groundhog when I was a teenager that was sitting up. I shot 2-3 arrows that would have drilled him in the chest. He dropped each time and the arrow flew harmlously by. He didn't drop straight down but dropped the right or left on his front legs (I can't remember which direction -- it was in the 70's).
After seeing this happen too many times I decided to shoot where he was dropping. I launched that arrow and son-of-a-gun if he didnt' just stay upright and my arrow passed to his side where he should have been. I think he could see the arrow coming.
I have also seen flying doves actually swivel their heads to watch arrows I've shot their direction.
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I never shoot when they are looking- though I am curious on your story why you couldn't shoot when they finally did glance away. I just put tension of the string, and the moment they look away I am at full draw. . .
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Originally posted by KSdan:
I never shoot when they are looking- though I am curious on your story why you couldn't shoot when they finally did glance away. I just put tension of the string, and the moment they look away I am at full draw. . .
KSdan. Your question is exactly the kind of thing that prompted this post and the info I am looking for from experienced bowhunters.
Would I have gotten away with shooting after they finally did look away? I figured the deer would still be too spooky to shoot at after looking at me even if they didn't leave.
I have only ever taken shots at deer that didn't know I was there. It severly limits my shots.
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I read where Fred Bear said you couldn't hit a deer that was looking at you. I've never had any luck hitting an animal once they had their eyes on me. As soon as those limbs begin to move they are gone.
Ross
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I don't shoot at critters that are looking at me (I.e., they actually see me even if they don't quite know what I am) or in my direction if they're close and likely to see me move. They are very likely to jump the string, and it's impossible to predict which way they will turn. A shot would most likely result in a bad hit.
That's hunting. Don't always get the shot. In fact, I let a lot more deer walk than I shoot, some because I don't want to shoot, but just as many because they don't give me a shot, and that includes looking at me when I would otherwise have a shot.
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I will not try to draw on an animal while they are looking at me. If they look at me while I am at full draw, the arrow is already gone. Inside of 15 yards , with a good shot angle, you stand a great chance of making a good shot...I might add, if you are at full draw and you notice it looking at you, you're not concentrating on that spot you want to hit!..Don't shoot in that circumstance, you have lost concentration. imho..
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I shot a doe at 8 yards last season that I was making eye contact with. It was a shoot or blow the group scenario so I figured I would try it and she didn't even flinch. Took the arrow and was down in 80 yards.
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Also I was wearing a green plaid shirt in mid October. The deer hadn't seen me for very long but she didnt watch my full draw cycle. Just the last half.
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If you shoot at one down here that is looking at you it will definitely be on the move by the time the arrow gets there. No telling where you will hit it. I learned the hard way to never shoot at a critter that is looking at me or that acts really spooky.
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I never realized, until I started videoing my hunts, just how many animals I shot that were looking at me.
They are looking away when I draw but I concentrate so hard on the little spot I intend to hit that I never noticed a lot of them are looking right up at me when I turn the arrow loose
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The only animal I have shot while being eyeballed was a cow elk last year; but she was so close she decided to freeze. I shot her through the heart at 8 feet. I had good brush behind me and a little in front
and I could see her trying to figure me out.
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Did you see the Bowhunter TV show today? :knothead: :banghead:
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Alright, I wear camo but its not so much to blend in, although that is some what important, its because I like how the materials perform in the mtns. I also will slap on a little face paint because my skin sticks out like a homing beacon. I've taken quite a few shots at deer and one elk with them looking right at me. The bow was already raised so they didn't see that movement or I'm sure they'd be gone. But for some strange reason they can't seem to see my arm coming back to full draw. Because my bows are pretty quite, they just stand there as the arrow sales right thru em... unless I miss of course. As the arrow makes noise from bouncing off the brush on the other side of them, the noise spooks em and they run... or sometimes walk, off. Never once has one of them jumped the string!
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Watch the videos of deer jumping the string and you will notice that the ones that are looking at the shooter have their bellies dang near on the ground when the arrow passes over them. I can remember loosing arrows on three deer that were looking at me when I dropped the string. Missed all of them by a mile.
I have, however, killed several deer that had been looking at me moments before, but had decided I was just an ugly branch. All of them were at close ranges.
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Gotcha buckeye- I watch their body language. . . and if they look away, particularly if they start to walk I usually am shooting. And I have rarely, if ever, had a deer jump the string (at least to the naked eye) in the past 20 years. I like it when they are slowly walking.
I do not want to overstate camo- but I really do think ASAT and older Predator make a BIG difference too. IF they do look, they usually look "through" me.
I had a decent buck this past season at 30 yds that caught me hanging my rattling horns back up. I froze, and as he began to walk cautiously paralleling me, I would slightly move my arm behind me grabbing my bow when he was not looking directly at me. When he looked- I froze. When he walked- I moved. As he walked in to a possible shooting lane, I had to slowly crouch all the way down from standing to about my knees- I did that and drew all in a slow motion as he walked. Shooting under limbs I laced him. . . photo shows the outcome!
(http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m252/danrudman/2011bestprofile.jpg)
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And laced him well might I add. :thumbsup:
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Geez Charlie, your so ugly I wouldn't worry about it! :bigsmyl:
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I never shoot at an animal when it's looking in my direction.
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I've killed several that I had to draw and shoot while they were looking at me.
I take my first, best, shot and if a deer has made me out and I know it's getting ready to book, I'll draw on it in a steady, calm, movement and release in almost the same move.
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quote:
Originally posted by VTer:
Geez Charlie, your so ugly I wouldn't worry about it! :smileystooges:
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Can't remember ever shooting at a deer looking at me & hope I never have to (?). Shot at enough deer that jumped the string to realize I ALWAYS aim low at the heart & prefer quartering away which opens up the vitals. If/when they feint, duck, or fall my arrow finds lungs or liver. Prefer to wear darks & plaids but no camo for 35 years.
IMHO, you did good to pass the shot. Way to go hunter. There will be other chances. Integrity is what you do when nobody is watching.
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I have not had good luck with deer on high alert or that have me pegged. They are too quick, at least for my set up. I've only missed low a few times, but high that's another story. EX: Last season I had a doe come in and I mouth bleated to stop her. For some reason she really locked up and went into that high alert, waiting to explode mannerism. Having missed a deer out of this very stand the year before I aimed at the lowest hair I could see on her body. She tried to limbo and I caught her in the spine. She was able to move probably 12 inches or so and I think she was only 10-12yds away. As the pics show if she got lower another 1-2 inches she was gone. Joe
(http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg177/Joe-Mart/P1050928.jpg)
(http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg177/Joe-Mart/P1050954.jpg)
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nope never!!! I'll wait or pass!
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I try to avoid shooting at deer that are looking at me. They are so fast!! I have tried on small game but usually they dodge the arrow. :archer2:
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if i got a animals in bow range and it is looking right at me and its either shoot or blow and mess up my hunt i try and draw and shoot if a shot is presented. sometimes they high tail it out of there and sometimes i get the shot off
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I have found that once you start your draw at a very close range, at some point the animal will or can see you but I have already been burning a eye into the kill zone an I just follow through.If you stop or let down your done!!!! this is the point of no return just follow throught.
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I your realy close its not going to matter (realy close.).I beleave they can here and see the arrow coming at them.
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oops
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Thanks for all the responses guys. If there are any more of you out there please feel free to post.
Thanks,
Charlie
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This goes against everything we have learned about deer reactions, but my experience with two of my last few bucks have me wondering.
I have only drawn twice on bucks that were looking right at me, and both didn't move an inch until after the arrow hit. I can't explain why. A large eight point was at eight yards, and a big ten point was at seventeen yards. Neither deer went over fifty yards after being hit.
We've all had deer that were looking right at us walk off without a chance at a shot at them. With the results I've had, I won't hesitate to take the shot when they're looking at me.
Obviously we don't want this scenario, but sometimes you just have to do what feels right at the time.
Bernie Bjorklund
NC Iowa/SW Wisconsin
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Problem is. . . those critters have the ability to move. Making the shot really iffy. If it doesn't move, I will make a great shot. If it does. . . . then what ?
ChuckC
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ChuckC,
Thanks for your reply. Those kinds of questions are why I have not taken shots many times.
I wanted input from hunters who have taken that shot to get some real results from what happened after they let the string go on that animal.
I figured most replies would tell me it went badly or don't take the shot. I really want to find out how it went for them. There is always the chance that someone out there is having this happen consistently and has figured some way around it. Maybe, a situation such as confusing the animal by wearing a ghillie. I know in some posts about ghillie suits, people have said they had an animal look right at them and still got a shot off. Just curious to get some more input.
-Charlie
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Depends on the game. Whitetails looking at you...no shot. Pigs looking at you...not a problem.
Most of the time when an animal has you pegged, I would wait and hope they look away....unless it's a pig, then let her rip. They'll usually stand and take it. Did I mention that I love to hunt pigs.
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I do not shoot in that situation
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http://buffsblackwidow.com/oldvideos/mason9pointM.wmv
I never knew he looked up.
I was staring at where I wanted to hit so hard I couldn't see his head
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I think it has as much to do with the animal state of alertness or how nervous he is when he comes in. If you are a sprinter in the blocks you will react much quicker than if you are relaxed. If an animal is already in the blocks so to speak and he is looking at me I will pass. But on the other hand if he is just looking in my direction and not acting nervous I might take the shot.
I think Buff's video also shows that the buck that was looking at him was reasonably relaxed at the shot. He still dropped but I've had them drop more than that looking away....
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If you watch many hunting videos and see the slo motion shots, most of the deer shot are reacting and dropping, it just happens so fast you can't tell normally, especially when you aren't even watching for that.
On an earlier thread, we discussed the sound of an arrow in flight, and different ways to quiet the arrow.
At least one person cited experience, A friend shot an arrow nearby, to excite him, as he stalked by. He said he heard it coming most of the way and it scared the hell out of him.
If HE could hear it. . . .
ChuckC
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Good points Chuck and coaster.
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I don't. In the case that it just happens to be looking at you/in your general direction but hasn't busted you yet, just hope it looks away and gives you a decent shot. If not, oh well. That's why it's hunting rather than shooting. If it's already busted you, the jig is probably up, but maybe you can wait it out till it calms down.
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The only time I will draw when one is looking at me is if he's busted me. They think they see me all the time and decide not. However, if they catch me starting to draw..or whatever and it gets bug eyed..the jigs up.
If he wants to stand there and look at me while I shoot him, that's fine with me. If he bolts before I can draw and get on him..nothing lost.
I personally don't think they will bolt off from the sound of the shot any quicker if looking at you than they will if they don't know you are there and hear the twang...which no matter what anybody does to their string the deer will hear it.
The reason I say I don't think it matters is...when someone sneaks up behind you and pops a bag or scares you, do you react more or less if you had seen him first.
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Every deer I have shot was looking at me when I released the arrow. Usually inside 20 yrds, its been my experince that they will hear or sense you drawing back. As long as the deer has not moved or jumped I will shoot.
Gilbert
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Another reason I put this post up, is that I have only shot a few animals with my bow. I have been wondering if waiting for the "perfect" looking away shot is even realistic. I feel like I might have blown a number of chances from my lack of experience shooting big game animals with a bow. I only gun hunted before I started with trad some 6 years back. I always feel like I have to be completely undetected to get a good shot. That might not be realistic. That's also why I am counting on my Tradgang brethren to help me figure this part of the hunt out. This seems to be where everything falls apart for me.
I am very good at getting close to deer and finding them on public land. I have had many walk by me and I thought I would get busted drawing because they were so close. I have had deer directly under my stand and even just 1 yard away on the ground(other side of the tree trunk). I just need to close the deal when it gets this close and intense. Does that make sense?
Thanks,
Charlie
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You said you passed up shots at 5-15 yards. At 5 yards, I dont think it would matter a bit. Maybe someone can convince me otherwise. The only big game animal that has jumped at the shot for me was a bruiser hog last february. Must have seen my bow arm move on the release. He was around 25 yards away, broadside, feeding woth his head up. On the release he just flat out started running straight ahead. Bizarre. I now am really conscious of my bow arm on release. Don't know if it matters.
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I guess charging straight toward you is one way for an animal to "jump the string".
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Buff,
Great video. I just got to look at it. My other laptop wouldn't play it. Sure helps me with the moment of truth.
-Charlie
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Originally posted by buckeye_hunter:
Buff,
Great video. I just got to look at it. My other laptop wouldn't play it. Sure helps me with the moment of truth.
-Charlie
Thanks
Have another passed him up the first afternoon because I didn't,t like the angle.
He came back down the pipe line the next morning
http://buffsblackwidow.com/videos/riorojo8point.wmv
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Both those bucks were looking right at you when you released the arrow. From what I am seeing on your videos I have DEFINITELY wasted some good chances. They seemed to be looking, but not necessarily on "high alert". This is where I think I am making a mistake. I have let at least 10 deer go in situations that appear to be very similar to your videos. I think I might need to get a little more bold and go for it. Not if they are coiled to bug out, but looking and calm or unsure.
Big help and thanks again. Great Videos! :notworthy:
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Charlie as you know the perfect scenario rarely happens in the woods. My guess is that you are probably not capitalizing on some of your opportunities. A lot of times deer will see you. The question is are they alarmed by you? Do they know what you are? Reading body language is a big part of it. But in my experience if a deer looks at you and then looks away he is fair game. He may have seen you but if he looks away he did not realize what you were and does not know he is in danger. I have shot many deer that have done this.
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Jon,
By looking away do you mean straight ahead in their direction of travel? That has happened to me a ton of times.
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Put your finger along the back of the deer that Buff shoots and see how far he drops at the release of the arrow. Great shot Buff as you must have had to aim below the animal to hit that low with that amount of drop of the animal.
Excellent shot and video.
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Yea that's what I mean. If I can see their eyes I wait till they are walking to draw. They don't catch movement as well when they are walking. If I can't see their eyes I draw whether they are walking or not and regardless of whether or not they previously looked at me in the tree. I have to admit though it hurts my feelings when I go to a lot of effort to hang a seemingly perfect stand only to have a deer look up at me!
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In the hill country the deer are so spooky, I aim to shoot under the deer and play the drop.
Works every time.
They drop if they are alert or not
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Originally posted by BUFF:
In the hill country the deer are so spooky, I aim to shoot under the deer and play the drop.
Works every time.
They drop if they are alert or not
X2
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Always enjoy your videos Buff.Compile them all and send me a copy. Be glad to pay.RC
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Our Southern deer aren't near big as Northern counterparts but faster! And Barney Fife nervous!
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I would never take a bow shot with a deer (especially a whitetail)looking at me. Too much can go wrong.
I always "play the eyes".....if I can see a deers eyes, they can see me.
I'm not afraid of missing opportunities, I don't try and estimate how much a spooked deer will drop....again, too much can go wrong.
Bowhunting is the most rewarding sport I have ever participated in. Wounding a deer, especially because I was "pushing it" ruins a perfect sport.
My opinion, your mileage may vary.