Trad Gang

I have a recurve for my wife, I'ts A Bear Kodiak Hunter 35#@28", I'm figuring with her short draw she might be pulling about 33#.Would this be enough for whitetail? She will be hunting on the ground only.I need your opinions.
Thanks everyone.

People have used less.I mean I would probably go with at least a 450-500gr. arrow with a hair poppin cut on contact 2 blade.Relatively close shots that are completely broadside or very slightly quartering.Thats just my opinion you can take worth a grain of salt.

Hope This helps.

I know a man who got complete pass thru on a doe using a 36#, shooting a 340 grain shaft! He hit the lungs.

That's pretty light.  I'd see if she can work up to 40# or so.  What's the MI reg minimum?

might want to check with your local DNREC officers.  I know in Delaware that they REQUIRE min of 45#

My first hunting bow as a kid was a 35# Tamerlane, the same one my grandmother killed numerous deer with.  Proficiency is the key with any bow no matter the draw.  I agree with String Tracker, check with your DNR to see what there requirements are.  Most minimums that I've seen nowadays is between 40-45lbs.

In Ohio it used to be 45#, but now it is 40#.

Honestly?  It may be enough....but I personally would not hunt with that poundage.

My son killed his first deer (8 pt buck) at age 13 with a youth longbow pulling 33# @ 24" which was his draw length at the time. Cedar arrow with a 2 blade Magnus penetrated to the feathers.

It will be enough, she just needs to take her high percentage shots with sharp heads.

My first bow was a 40# recurve.  I called the DNR and asked what the minimum poundage was for deer hunting.  The officer told me Michigan doesn't have a minimum and that his aunt hunts with a 35# bow.

The deer I killed with that bow was with a 2 blade Magnus sitting on a Chundo pine shaft.  The arrow didn't pass through, but buried itself to the nock.  Double lung.  Arrow broke and did some good damage.  I found all 4 pieces.  2 in her and 2 on the ground.  Glued it all back together and have it hanging in my shop.

I'd say if it gets her hunting, she's practiced A LOT, has the knowledge of vitals and can keep her cool to take a high-percentage shot while on the ground, her setup is SUPER tuned, and the heads are sharp, then do it...

I would, however, recommend a good piece of cover, or better yet, a ground blind, to allow her to concentrate on getting to full draw, and getting her form in place to make the shot, so she doesn't have to worry quite as much about getting busted at ultra-close range.

Moving your body millimeters to make that draw can take a lot out of you, and your concentration for the shot, while you're in the deer's "sixth sense" zone, and they can sense any movement just barely outside their vision cone.

In a nutshell, anything to boost her confidence during the final shot sequence (and accuracy) can help to offset a light setup.

And I'd also recommend the two-blade around 400 grains of arrow, maybe a hair more.  Any more than that will drop really quick...and tuning is the most important part...heavy doesn't work if it's wobbling on the way there...

Just my thoughts,
Marc

Back in the 50's it was not uncommon to see game taken with bows in the 30's. But, yes, it is enough given a good shot angle and if you are shooting within the laws where you are hunting.

i second otto's opinion.....yes you COULD kill a deer at that poundage but i'd go higher if at all possible. my 2 cents

29# RD longbow in one side out the other don't ask how i know that.

If she can excercise the restraint necessary to take high percentage shots within her effective range she will kill as many deer as the rest of us.  Have fun.  Be safe.

Jerry Dishion (SP?) from Stotler archery told me along time ago he shot through 17 deer with his first bow which was 37#--> I was young and wondering about #40 for whitetails and he among many other people said 40 won't be a problem providing the shot distance is not beyond 20yds w/ two blade and everything is flying perfect.

If she's hitting good and everything is set up right, why not!

I would say no.  The perfect, perfect, perfect senario doesn't always happen in actual hunting situtations.   If your wife should wound and not recover her first deer, she will likely feel so badly about it she may never hunt again.

I know I am at the other end of this light bow thing, but it is my opinion and I am sticking with it.

Cheers.

you are kidding, right? No? You have to plan for the worst....work for the best. 33 lbs is too light for the worst.

If you didn't respect the game you wouldn't be asking...so have enough respect for them to have your wife work up her poundage, and arrow weight, where she can responsibly shoot a living creature with a bow and expect to get the results she is looking for.

One bad experience and your new hunting partner might quit. You don't want that to happen, do you?

Notice I didn't say it "can't be done"...what I am saying is that though you CAN do something, it doesn't mean that it's something one ought to do. Some natives shot some really wimpy little bows..while subsistence hunting....but we aren't hunting to feed ourselves..we are hunting for other reasons. Just food for thought.

There's enough guys weighing in on for or against, so I'll add a different twist to the pot.

You mention she has a short draw and it appears as though it might be 27"s+ (based on the #s you figured).

Keep in mind that most guys who tell people they have a 28, 29...30 inch draw always seem to draw 27"s when I see them on the courses, etc...

In a hunting situation, even a well practiced, seasoned archer who draws 28"+ might short draw the 27-28 they are likely getting...you see where I am going...

Just something to think about when you are right near the line.

Sharp broadhead and good placement... 33# ... easy kill.
DR

BJK-

BUT, those same people would probably come to full draw if they were shooting 33#.  Maybe end up with a faster arrow too.

I didn't want to make this an easy decision. :^)

Carl

Let me say up front--I'm not being a smart aleck. But I'm not understanding some of these answers. I don't know if 30# bows are enough bow or not myself. I haven't tested.

What I don't understand is all this "If you make a well place shot" stuff. You have to make a well placed shot with a 50 or 70 pound bow. What are we saying here? Shoulder blade?

You should have razor sharp broadheads with anything you shoot. You should make the best shot at your game as you possible can with any bow.

I see these guys on Videos shooting elk and moose with traditional bows, and a lot of the times the arrow doesn't pass all the way through. I'm sure they are heavy bows. I've never hunted eld or moose.

Are y'all suggesting a 30# bow with razor sharp broadheads will not punch through a deer's chest cavity? Are you saying you can be a little more sloppy with a heavy bow?

I had a fellow tell me that no recurve was enough. He said they just didn't shoot fast enough. ????

I would like to ask that y'all explain your reasoning, because I sincerely--sincerely don't get it.

I do know that since the mid seventies, I've killed a good many whitetails with my old bear compound at 50# without complete pass throughs. And to be honest, I've had a few get away with pass throughs and not that I don't know what happened.

Again, I don't know the answer; I just don't understand how we know it's not enough bow.

I think an experianced bowhunter could certainly kill a deer with a 33lb bow.Since your wife is new she is subject to make the same mistakes as most bowunters starting out on picking the wrong shots.We have all done it and might still screw up at times.Personally if she wants to bow hunt and can not pull more weight I would set her up with a nice light weight compound bow to hunt with.She can shoot and have fun with the stickbow but get some experiance under her belt before hunting with it. jmho

Hey Carl,

I agree with you, most guys I see who use 40-60Lb bows and have a 28-30 inch draw would likely get to full draw with a 33# bow, even in a hunting situation (if they haven't already gotten too accustomed to shooting low weight).  

My guess is this nice lady is shooting less poundage than she/we believe, but it is all speculation really.  Checking it during a practice session, then monitoring over hours, days, weeks will show you the real deal.  

If it were me making the decision, I would look at this aspect carefully and make my decision based on what is actually happening, not what I think might be happening.  Fact is, this is on the low range when discussing poundage...we wouldn't be talking about it if it weren't.    


Brian

+1 on the compound.

My daughter killed a doe with a 28# compound last year and had no problem. Michigan doesn't have a weight minimum. I've thoroughly checked the regs.

There is merit to the question of whether or not she is actually getting 33lbs of draw weight.
If she is, a close range, broadside shot
will not be a problem.

I would stick to a two edge head, and practice, practice, practice. Real hunting situations.

Thin hide and ribs are all that seperates her broadhead from the lungs. As we all know, get both lungs and the deer WILL NOT go far.
Shot placement is the key, whether she draws 33
or 65 lbs.

I pray she gets a bunch of point blank, in your face, encounters with deer. Wait till you see her face when some old doe snorts at her from ten yards.   ;)

might do the trick but might not be legal in your state. in any case you wil need a cut on contact

jojatater,

Plan for the worst- practice for the best. The worst that can happen is to hit the shoulder joint with a broadhead.

I have blown completely through both shoulder blades with MY setup, but NEVER through a joint. I shoot considerably more weight than 33 lbs at my draw, and I shoot very heavy arrows.

Momentum - the resistance of an object to stopping, is greater, with more poundage and weight. Think of it this way- throw a brick and an angel food cake the same size at a snowbank. Which one will penetrate farther into the snow?

Errors are common with bowhunters just starting out- I've had guys who were experienced tell me they shot something "right behind the right shoulder, or the left shoulder" I can't tell you how many times, and they ended up having shot it in the butt, on the opposite side, as an example.

Things happen...plan for the worst, practice for the best.

A new hunter, with a 30 or 33 lb bow or whatever, if they make a mistake, might get soured on the sport if their first shot is a bad one. I would not want to take a chance were it my wife, that she would make a bad shot...because I know she would not handle that well.

Anyone can build muscle, technique, and increase their weight to a higher level. I think 33 lbs is too low a bow weight for the taking of game in a quick clean manner, because everything has to work PERFECTLY every time you shoot, or you end up in trouble.

You don't have to be involved in many late night, flashlight, hands and knees woods walking expeditions to get fed up with marginal hits and no deer at the other end of that trail to decide that you need to execute better to stop it from happening again....there's plenty of reasons to have a sleepless night...worrying over a deer you made a marginal shot on is not a reason you want your wife sitting up at night for.

jojotater

Most people that make the comments that you ask about understand that while we strive for perfection, stuff happens.  In the event of a marginal shot, they want to tip the odds in their favor as much as possible.  Thus they argue for higher draw weights and more mass weight.  It is pretty sound logic to my thinking except...

...Many people are overconfidant about the performance capabilities of their high draw weight bows and this line of thinking actually can contribute to the decision to take lower percentage shots.  Some of these folks will end up with a higher wounding loss percentage than if they lowered their draw weight, improved their shooting form, and excercised some restraint.

If I could only pull 33 pounds, I would hunt deer sized game or smaller and limit my shot distance to 12-15 yards or less.  I would go home without loosing an arrow even more than I do now, but when I did, I would have confidence in cleanly killing what I shot at.

In NC the minimum is 35# for compounds and 40# for traditional.
So she would legally have to hunt with a compound.

Check your game laws. WI. has a 35# min. But, I have no idea if thats actual draw weight, or whats on the bow. I'd be more comfortable with at least 40#'s, a 2 blade head, and shots at or under 20 yds. IMO.

Gotta have confidence. Why don't you just ask her if she feels ready to kill a living creature so close you see the whites of their eyes. May as well learn from the start ya gotta be honest to yourself about ethics & everything else. We bowhunt to accept it's challenge.

It's not the poundage, it's feeling ready.

The only way to get experience, is to do it,....when you're ready to.

bjk;
I'm the opposite! Heart pounding, big buck standing there, draw back slowly,....right past my anchor!....LOL

Good hunting

Your wife may well have a blast hunting without ever unleashing an arrow; ground hunting and stalking is a real rush! Set a shot distance goal with her, and let's face it the worst that can happen is the same regardless of #.

Might be enough but is it legal in your state . In Texas the minimum is 40# at your draw length.

No draw weight restrictions in Mi. Whether you decide to or not, on the deer, don't rule out the rabbits/small game. Plenty of shooting, lots of fun and good times.


Steve

It also depends a lot on the bow. An old hill style bow, maybe, maybe not. A Black Swan or ACSCX than yes, both would need good shot placement, see what I mean! Shawn

In New York you must pull 35# at your draw to be legal. Lets say it is legal were you hunt, and for the sake of argument that is the max this person can pull. your options are hunt with it or don't hunt at all. I would choose hunt with it and no matter what people will say now, i would think that given the choice of hunt or don't hunt they would pick hunt. With that said, I would be very picky about yardage and also would take nothing but  a quartering away shot that would miss the ribs all together. Just my opinion to be taken for what it's worth.

I would say do it, I wouldn't worry about what people say. As long as she is able to shoot the bow in an accurate matter there is nothing wrong with her equipment. If it is legal in your area do it. We shouldn't be in the practice of disagreement of equipment that she chooses to use as much as we should be supporting a new hunter or archery shooter to the sport. Some people are going to argue the facts but they will do this simply because they beleive they are right and they like to argue until everyone just agrees or chooses not to argure with them and lets them get the last word. Tell her to keep her head up and tell her I said good luck.
Chris Kiefner

I have read ALL of every single post on this thread and most of it leaves me very disappointed. The "yeah go ahead and do it", don't seem have any regard for the animals or bowhunting in general. Bowhunting isn't easy, now add in a beginner and give them a bow that will work IF, she pulls it all the way, waits for a close, perfect angle shot, with the right heads, perfectly tuned arrows(can't really add "heavy arrows" with that weight bow) AND has perfect shot placement and the deer dosn't move and the wind dosn't blow etc.! Sounds like an awful lot of "ifs" to me. EVERY time one of these threads comes up, you hear from all those that know someone who killed umpteen animals with whatever very light equipment, you NEVER EVER hear of the animals they hit, but did not recover, WHY? Do not tell me its because it didn't happen, I KNOW better and I have seen some good potential bowhunters give up because of it.

I would take her out and do all the small game hunting that you guys possibly can, while that was going on, I'd see if she could build up her weight to 40lbs at her draw, if she can build up to 40lbs, and with some small game under her belt, then I would say lets hit the deer woods.

35# is the legal minimum for whitetail in PA......

#35 is legal in Indiana also. But if it was legal to use less I wouldn't see a problem, what is 2-5 lbs. You can screw up with 50lbs as you can with 30 lbs. If you screw up you screw up, it doesn't matter how many lbs you are shooting. You shoot a deer in the guts with 70 lbs. compound chances are it is going to go as far as a deer hit in the guts with a 30 lbs recurve. And plus, I don't think we can talk about deer that we wound during deer season anyway, they told us last year that they didn't want that posted so you are going to be one sided on this anyway.
Chris Kiefner

Rick, how many animals are not recovered with heavy bows? You don't hear bragging on that either. You make it sound as if you can take sloppy shots with heavy bows.

I've asked earlier "How do we know 35# is not enough weight." Maybe someone should do some tests. Maybe it is and maybe it is not, but this bad hit stuff is possible with all poundage.

I read that people have taken a lot of deer with light bows, but I seldom read where deer get away with bad hits from heavy bows. I've been bow hunting for over 30 years, and I know it happens.

I haven't seen proof yet that a 35# bow is not more than enough. I don't know, but I would like to, because I have a young daughter just starting out with her first bow. She is shooting a 16# now. I hope some day she will make it to the 40# limit that Arkansas requires if she decides to hunt. I don't know if she will make that poundage because she is small--very small for her age. If lighter bows ARE enough I will push that in this state. If not, well, it is just is not enough and she will not be able to hunt with a bow.

Does anyone know if there have been documented tests on this subject?

I'm with Rick, there is more at stake here than a single shot at a single animal. TV has soured allot of the public perception we've taken years to instill of Fair chase and bowhunting ethics. Adding to the problem by shooting a lightweight bow shouldn't be encouraged.
Bowhunting is not for everyone although the compound device and allthe gadget manufacturers want you to believe otherwise.
If you think hunters and non-hunters make the laws on hunting and seasons, you have allot of catching up to do.

jojotater, I think I better reread what I wrote, because I am very sure I never said that heavy bows allow sloppy shots. I KNOW that I have seen animals taken with heavier than the minimum gear and less than perfect shots, that I am sure would NOT have taken with lighter gear. Nearly everytime this discussion comes up, the light gear advocates bring it to,"a good shot with a light bow vs a bad shot with a heavy bow", yeah, so what? I haven't noticed that there is ANY corellation between bow weights and shooting skills. The thing is that with very light gear EVERYTHING has to be perfect, with heavier bows, arrows and bigger broadheads, they can do a better job if everything isn't perfect.
   I have posted THIS question a number of times and am still waiting for the first answer, "suppose you have that very light setup and determine that it is fine, if everything is perfect, on a average sized whitetail, that is broadside and not more than 15 yards away, NOW the monster buck of a lifetime, 200#'s plus, comes by at about 20 yards, quartering away, are you going to pass up the shot, really?"  
  I don't know, I guess its the common thread running through our society, when I started bowhunting, the question was always, "how much weight do I need to work up", now the question is ALWAYS, "what is the minimum".

Every bow has a limit. If you see a deer of a lifetime at 50 yards, will you pass with a heavy bow?

Speaking of limits: That's why we hunt tradional anyway, isn't it? Limits=more challenge. Why not use a state of the art compound or a rifle.

It's like comparing a 30-30 to a 7 Mag. A 30-30 will get it done, but it has more limits.

I didn't ask the original question here, but I still would like to see some concrete evidence on what a 30 pound bow will do to a deer. Is it enough or not? I know what a 50# compound will do. I also know what it will do on a bad shot. I know what a 200 pound crossbow will do on a bad shot too. "You want a good shot!"

The question: Is a 30 bow enough if you hit where you are suppose to within its limit--maybe 18 yards?

Just for kicks I took a 35# Quinn recurve and shot it thru the chrono.  462gr arrow clocked at 150fps (course that's a 28" draw).

Rick,
a thread just about like this one, and another one where guys were advocating 100 yard shots at elk were the reason I left the "other" site.

It is obvious to me that you are wasting your time here.

I'd check your game laws first but I'm sure it wouild kill a deer, Ive heard of Native American Indians using bows as low as 30lbs of draw and killing buffalo.

yep you can kill a deer with a .22 rifle too....
That don't make it right

Ok, I'm curious. What is the least poundage you fellows think is ok since many are of the opinion that 35 is not enough?

I agree with both sides to a point, were the archers of yesteryear any less moral than us, or ethical. Who can answer that, because I know for a fact a lot of hunters shot deer 45-50 years ago with 40# bow and a lot of them were not pulling a full 28"s. Respectfully, Shawn

QuoteOriginally posted by Rick McGowan:
I have posted THIS question a number of times and am still waiting for the first answer, "suppose you have that very light setup and determine that it is fine, if everything is perfect, on a average sized whitetail, that is broadside and not more than 15 yards away, NOW the monster buck of a lifetime, 200#'s plus, comes by at about 20 yards, quartering away, are you going to pass up the shot, really?"  
 

Well then, let me be the first. Not only is the answer yes, but hell yes. What your question is basically asking is if, as individuals, we have the restraint to stay within our limits, no matter the trophy caliber of the animal in front of us. And that queston's not exclusive to those hunting with lightweight equipment. Quite honestly, it's a question every hunter, bow gun or otherwise, should answer before going afield.

Asking a person with a 35# bow if they'd extend exceed their effective range by a third because they're looking at a buck of a lifetime is no different than asking you if you'd exceed your range by a third under the same circumstances.

In twenty-plus year of bowhunting I've lost track of how many "whatevers" of a lifetime I've passed up because they were a bit too far away, the angle was wrong, there were obstructions like brush in the way, or any other list of reasons. As a matter of fact, I passed up shots on the first two P&Y-class whitetails I ever saw from a treestand. The first one was because he was 5 yards beyond my effective range. The second was only 4 yards away, but he was facing me with his head down, and I don't consider "base of the neck and between the shoulder blades" a very good shot angle.

I understand what you're saying, Rick, and to be honest, I have no idea what minimum poundage is good for whitetails. But a person who would exceed their limitations or effecive range with a 35# bow would do the same if he or she was hunting with 40, 50, or 60+ pounds. I think we've all spent enough late nights tracking animals for folks who said "I know it wasn't a good shot, but it was the only shot I had" to know that people don't suddenly become responsible and ethical just because they bought heavier limbs for their bow.

Hell if somone tried to answser they would just get badgered to death.

These threads get so old.......do want you want within the law and don't blame anyone for the outcome but please learn from your mistakes.

Well said Jason. I have read articles in TBM on the owner of Rancho Safari, he took some out-of this world shots. Am I advocating that, hell no, but it does come down to a person knowing his equipment and knowing and staying within their limits. Shawn

Ray, you are right. Biggie, you are too!
jojo, still no one has ever answered my question!

Rick, Jason just answered it and that would be mine as well, I have passed up many shots at quite a few large deer because I felt I could not make a quick clean kill, not only with a bow but rifle and sluggun as well. Shawn

QuoteOriginally posted by Rick McGowan:
jojo, still no one has ever answered my question!

:wavey:

It's a simple answer to me...certainly it can be done. I wouldn't want somebody zipping broadheads at me out of a 33# bow.

But NO, I wouldn't do it. To much at risk. Regardless of how hard we try, every shot isn't perfect.