Some of you guys that hang around here alot know that over the last couple of years my wife and I have really gotten into the blood tracking thing with our European Dachshund (Teckel) - I thought I'd give a pictoral update for those interested, and maybe get the word out a little bit more about the value of a well trained dog for recovery of poorly hit deer.
To begin at the beginning, we had mulled over the idea of getting a pup to try to develop into a tracking dog for a few years. My wife is from Eastern France and there, as in much of Europe, blood tracking wounded game with dogs is very common. She also had experience owning a (non-hunting) Teckel, and that is the way we wanted to go. Of course I had the typical preconceived notions of the "wiener dog" - but she's a dog person and I couldn't argue with her experience.
After reading John Jeanneney's 1st book (a good primer, by the way) - and doing a BUNCH of searching in the US - we finally found a breeder that was producing what we were after - standard sized smooth haired Dachshunds from pure hunting lines (European stock). These dogs are bred first, foremost, and last as hunting dogs, from only top bloodlines.
Of course who could say "No" to this face?
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v195/RyanRothhaar/OskarSep272009.jpg)
We brought our new buddy "Oskar" home at 8 weeks old, and with plenty of time, patience, and help/support from our breeder we set out to develop him into a blood tracking dog. Of course he taught us more than we taught him - the bloodline, abilities and desire were there, we just needed to develop the proper teamwork and relationship and learn how to read our dog on the lead.
By 10 weeks he was doing artificial bloodlines of 300-400 yards long, with multiple turns/tricks that were aged overnight. I think the real eye-opener for us was when we mistakenly laid a portion of a new track over a 3 day old track when he was 11 weeks old and he got onto and followed the 3 day old track with no problem....we just looked at each other and shook our heads...
He tracked his first real deer (an easy track) on a doe I killed behind our house when Oskar was 12 weeks old...the switch went firmly into the "ON" position!
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v195/RyanRothhaar/Oskarwithdoe.jpg)
I'm going to make sure my wife doesn't read this or I will be buying another dog!
Good stuff. :thumbsup:
Rob
That fall - with the season ending when he was 6 months old - Oskar found several deer, including a few that would have been very difficult, or totally lost without a dog...
Here is a doe that my wife Katia found with him for one of my family at Thanksgiving time that year. This would have been a very difficult recovery without the dog, but we made the 400 yard track in probably 1/2 hour...the drag up the hill took MUCH longer!
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v195/RyanRothhaar/DSC02098.jpg)
By 6 months old Oskar had been in on finding 12 deer, of course several were "training tracks" - but we felt he was well on his way to becoming the "Real Deal".
Here is Kelly Peterson with a fine buck we used for a training track. Oskar even won Kelly over! (And he's a grouch ;) )..
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v195/RyanRothhaar/kpandos.jpg)
more to come
We started taking calls from hunters - cold calls just by putting our name/number out there - in 2010, no charge, just to help folks find deer and to get Oskar onto more tracks. Unfortunately for posting pictures on here most of our calls are from "modern" type bowhunters, but we've had a great time and found quite a few deer. The biggest antlers have been a 150 class 8 pt and a 140ish 4X5 that my wife found for 2 hunters the 1st week of November last year...both were "deer of a lifetime" for these guys. Of course the dog doesn't care about horns, and the hunters are as happy when we find a little doe as a buck, generally.
We own two dachshunds, wire and dapple color. The only thing they can find is the food bowl. They have killed a squirrel, mole, snake and a bird. I friend of my wife tracked with dachshunds while we were stationed in Germany. Awesome!!
Cool!! He would come in very handy at times!!
A typical call that results in a found deer is generally a single lung/liver or full out gutshot. The hunter generally looks around quite a bit before calling us (I WISH THEY WOULDN'T!) and 9 times out of 10 jumps the deer - whether they know it or not. The track usually ends up something between 800 and 1000 yards and can get tricky after the deer is jumped. The reality is that the point of loss for the hunter is the HARDEST part for the dog - if we can get past the point of hunter loss then the odds go way up. The dog doesn't just track by blood, but by disturbed ground, deer scent, tarsal/urine scent and other factors that indicate that deer. If a hunter (or worse, him and 4 buddies) spend several hours mucking up the area then it really confuses things for the dog. Generally we can make the 200 yards or so to the point of hunter loss in a few minutes (this takes the hunter generally 1-3 hours earlier) then we spend the bulk of our time getting past the loss point.
As an example the largest buck Katia found this year was searched for by the hunters for several hours. She made it to point of loss in under 10 minutes, spent about an hour working things out, then went the last 700 yards of the track (no visible blood at all) in about 1/2 hour to the dead deer.
We have a typical recovery rate on all calls of about 35%.....keep in mind though that many of the deer we are called on (I'd say over 50%) end up obviously non-fatally wounded when you track them - usually high back or shoulder hits. We call the track off when we make this decision - usually after the blood sign and distance (usually over a mile) indicate that the deer is not going to die.
From the trackers I've talked with this is a very normal recovery rate.
For us the real indicator of success is dead deer in the back of the truck that wouldn't have been there without the dog. We did get a chance to test him in the German system this Spring though, and it was nice for us as we had never watched another dog track, and had no real idea if we were doing things right or getting lucky.
In March we did 2 tests with him - Katia handling him - VSwP tracking tests. These are very formalized blood tracking tests used to "qualify" dogs in Europe. The test is made by using 250 mL (that is about 1 cup) of deer blood to lay a trail that is 1000 meters (a bit over 1000 yards) long. That is VERY little blood compared to a real wounded deer. The track is then aged and worked with 3 judges following to judge the dog/handler. You are allowed to be called back to the track 3 times if the dog gets off of it, but after that you are disqualified. This test can be very tricky as there is little or no visible blood, and if you are called back the judges don't tell you where you were on/off the track. The track is also not marked so the handler can't "cheat" the dog through it - you have to trust your dog and be able to read when he is on or off of the track. There are 3 levels of prizes, with a Prize 1 only possible if there is no callback (ie. the dog works the track faultlessly). Katia and Oskar worked the 20 hour test track (aged 20-24 hours after laying the blood) to a Prize 1 in 15 minutes....he actually ran down the track to go 1000 yards in 15 minutes. The next day they worked the 40 hour test track (aged 2 days) in 32 minutes to a Prize 1. We really didn't know what that meant, we expect Oskar to not make mistakes on artificial lines, but the guy in the tie, the head judge thats been doing this for alot of years, said that Oskar and Katia worked better than any dog/handler team he has ever judged. Needless to say we were proud! This is where proper bloodline and a good relationship with your dog show through.
The woman with the horn is a judge from Germany, and the other fellow is a US judge.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v195/RyanRothhaar/vswp.jpg)
And yes, I know in the DD world the dog is not allowed to chew on the animal. For Oskar, though, this is the reward, no treat or toy at the end of the track for him...he only wants HIS deer!
Very, very neat, Ryan. What a wonderful and fulfilling "wrinkle" on enjoying our sport.
You Da "Man", Oskar!!!!!
This whole experience has been a real eye-opener for us, and if you haven't figured it out I'm 1000% sold on the value of a well handled tracking dog to find wounded animals. I think of it this way - a good woodsman will probably find virtually all of the deer he wounds mortally, it just may take a long time for some. Having a good dog available makes those long tracks (and possible heartbreakers) into a walk in the woods.
An example (and the last deer of the 2011 season for us) was this doe that my father shot late this season....this was Oskar's 24th deer recovery in his first 3 seasons of tracking.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v195/RyanRothhaar/dadandos.jpg)
You can see the hit was less than ideal, with about 2/3 arrow penetration to the offside back of the ribcage and no exit hole (he is shooting quite light poundage nowadays). Of course the Ol' Man has killed a few whitetails in his day, and knew his hit wasn't great. He backed out and we didn't fool with the deer that night. The next morning Katia, Oskar, and I tracked the deer about 350 yards to her last bed in under 15 minutes. The first 80 yards would have been pretty easy - open woods, reasonable blood - but then she got into a high weed field (CRP) and there was no visible blood for over 200 yards. This deer went the exact opposite direction we would have thought from having killed probably a dozen deer from this stand over the years, and crossed a fence into a brushy draw. 50 yards into the draw layed the doe. Now we would have probably found this deer, but based on the direction/distance it would have been a body search situation with no blood once into the CRP field and probably a 4-8 hour search. With the dog the deer is skinned out and butchered by then.
This is a good time of year to start a pup, and if you have the time, dedication, and interest in developing a blood tracking dog, then go for it! For us it has opened up a whole new world of enjoyment and given the wife and I something else to do together outdoors (she doesn't hunt, but LOVES to track!). Plus we've gotten a real buddy out of it and have been able to help a few folks find deer that may have otherwise been lost.
We also got to know fellow TradGang member Shaun Webb through this ordeal (thanks for the test pics!). He's addicted to this too, and his dog Graetche is Oskar's cousin. She's spoiled though. (If you see Shaun ask him about his sweet little girl fighting a boar hog in Texas this spring!).
Thanks for sticking with it this long, and I hope you found it interesting!
Ryan
:thumbsup:
I hope I never need one and hope one is available if I do.
Great thing you are doing Ryan! Love to see animals get recovered instead of wasted! :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
That great and really add to the overall element of hunting and woodsmanship!
What are other breeds to consider for tracking dogs?
Excellent information. Wish I lived/hunted a little closer to you. Thanks for sharing. :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
You'll get lots of recommendations for breeds. Get a type of dog that you can LIVE WITH first, then look for 1. Prey drive 2. Focus and 3. Intelligence...and you are set! This is why we looked for the right (hunting) bloodlines as this took care of 1-3 for us.
Ryan
That is a great story about your dog, and she/he is still so young, i'll look forward to the stories that will come over the years.
Thanks
Ryan looks like you have come a ways since comptons a couple years ago.Enjoyed the story about your dog.
Very cool. :clapper:
Sounds very interesting and fun.
Ryan this was a fascinating read. Thanks for sharing it with us.
Thanks Ryan for sharing,I have always considered to have such kind of buddy!
Thats realy cool. Nothing better than a good dog.
Cute little fella.
QuoteOriginally posted by Ryan Rothhaar:
and it was nice for us as we had never watched another dog track, and had no real idea if we were doing things right or getting lucky.
Heck, the rest of us already knew...
That is fine work..congratulation to you, Katia, and Oskar :thumbsup: wish you were closer.
Great story! I wish this practice was legal in West Virginia.
Thats great to certified Prize 1! You and Katia should be very proud. :clapper:
After losing Tanner last year I will be starting over with another Teckel this spring (Moe). Dont be surprised if I bend your ear again at the shoots this summer.As you know I'm still a rookie at this blood trail training.
Bill
Ryan
Thanks for sharing. I am totally fascinated with tracking dogs, and Teckels in particular
We have a bit more restrictive process to go through to do it in NY, but for those into bowhunting and working dogs, it's worth it.
Congrats on your early success. You can't go wrong with the "right" breeeding.
:thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Thanks for sharing Ryan,those weiners are my favorite dog also.
:clapper: :clapper:
Very enlightening and enjoyable read.
Tip of that hat to ya, Ryan.
Thanks for the update, Ryan. Great thread. I've been a fan of tracking dogs since watching Mook recover a gut shot moose in Michael's BC camp. (3/4 of a mile, no blood at all) Dogs are a wonderful part of the hunting world.
Very cool read.
I was stationed in Germany in the 1980s and hunted extensively. Almost every Forestmeister and guide I hunted with had a Schweizhund (tracking dog).
Most of them were mutts with some hunting breed mixed in. Most of them were smaller dogs. I hunted chamois in the Bavarian Alps and the guide had a little mutt dog that found a chamois I shot that ran into some blowdown that we would have never found. That dog walked with us and stayed at the heel of his master the whole hunt until he put him to work.
They are a great part of the sport in Europe and it surprises me we don't use them more here. Unlike most big hunting dogs like Labs or Pointers they aren't generally high strung and make awesome house dogs. Not that Labs don't make good pets. I have one and have had others. And had a German Shorthair for 14 years that was awesome as well. But living with a big dog like a Lab that chews until they are two and shed until they are dead presents its own set of challenges that little dogs don't.
:thumbsup:
Ryan, what a fascinating addition to an alreay wonderful bowhunting career. Great story, super pics and wonderful family. Best of luck, and thanks for sharing.
Shick
Oskar seems to be doing a fine job training you. Tell him to keep up the good work.
My daughter has a wire-haired from the New York stock. She was just bred to a male from Texas. Both of them have tracked deer for them this past year. I think their pups will have great potential. Its fun to watch them train on the artificial trails and when they are really working. Neat dogs with the family too.
Great update on Oskar,very cool story. :campfire:
My daughter's dog is due to litter about June 10th. If anyone is interested I can send you her information. Litter is expected to be 6-7 pups. 2 have deposits on them.
I love to see a dog do what he was born to do.
Kentucky Jeff, I was heavily involved with labs for lots of years as hunting dogs and field trial dogs. I agree a field trial lab is wired pretty tight but most hunting labs are pretty laid back as mine was and are a pleasure to hunt with and be around as a family pet. Mine didn't chew one thing we owned probably because my hobby for all those years was training him so he channeled the chewing thing into training and hunting. The shedding, well......
I miss my tracking Dachshunds both were great dogs lived long lives. Abby and Max came from german bloodlines and found some deer over the years-
I've always wanted a wirehaired Dachshund to do exactly what you're doing. I love seeing dogs do what they were bred to do. Kudos to you and your pup!
I have German Shorthairs now and have had a German Wirehair and Pudelpointer. When bird hunting once, I came across a guy that had lost a deer and we tried to use the Pudelpointer to find it. She was pretty young and had no experience but tracked it a bit before losing it.
I train my dogs and run in NAVHDA hunt tests which have some tracking along with field and water work. The tests are based heavily on the German testing system and we get many German bred dogs that are tested in the German systems where old blood tracks are required. It's quite amazing what a dog can do.
Unfortunately, it's illegal in Colorado to use a dog to hunt big game even if it's wounded.
My father has a wirehaired dachshund in MI that he uses to track downed game. I wish my home state of WA would pull its head out of its rear end and allow this. We can't use dogs for anything except birds, racoons, and other small game.
I'm with you. Colorado needs to get with the program. What's interesting is that the Colorado Bowhunters club has a lot of influence with the Commission. I don't know if they've brought this up with them or not.
Sorry, I don't mean to hijack the thread!
Terrific thread from one Teckel Man to another!!
Ryan,
I might have missed it, but what size is your dog, a standard or a miniature? Is there a difference when selecting a dog?
My family and I have two West Siberian Lika's that we use as blood hounds and for squirrel hunting. There is no better sight then watching one of them work a blood trail.
Wow. Awesome job. I have used my golden a little and it is very rewarding.
Very interesting, informative post, and congrats on the test scoring. You sound like folks who train labs for ducks - they get much more excited about the dog working and doing its thing than the rest of the hunt. Sounds addictive!
Ditto on Kelly being a grouch. :)
Owlbait - is the Michigan dog one of the ones that shows up at the Compton shoot?
Selfbow - Oskar is a standard (20 lb) smooth hair. I think the European standard dogs are probably on average a bit smaller than the US bloodlines. According to the FCI standard about 20 lbs is all the bigger a standard should be - US dachshunds - I mean "AKC show stock" not dogs of European bloodlines bred in the US - seem to run bigger, and I don't think you would consider most of them "hunting dogs".
As to picking a dachshund to use for hunting or blood tracking you can't go far wrong if you stick to European bloodlines - they are used for hunting much more than over here. In the US that most likely means standard wirehair (several breeders) or standard smooth (a couple of breeders). As far as a specific pup - I would be sure that the breeder is "doggy" enough to be able to match the pup with your needs - the Volhard puppy aptitude test is a good starting point to assess the pup's personality. For blood tracking you want some serious prey drive and focus. Of course look at the parents of the pup - are they REALLY hunting dogs. I think any dachshund has the brains (they are unbelievably smart dogs, in general), and most have the nose. The other aspects of the pup's personality should be such to meet your wants/needs for the other 10 months out of the year when you need to live with the dog. Oskar has VERY strong prey drive, that is what our breeder prioritizes - along with very good personality, brains, focus/determination, and some biddabilty. He's a pleasure to have around the house, but at 3 yrs old wants to play ALOT - and snuggle. He does not have the biddabilty to be left off of the leash much outside where we live (near a highway) as he would definitely go after the yard rabbits and be hit on the road, this is one compromise we have to make for the strong hunting instinct. I think, in general, dachshunds as they are hounds, do not have near the biddabiltiy of the pointer type dogs....also may in general have a bit more prey drive and focus when it comes to "boring" tasks like blood tracking than a bird dog or terrier. I would also be sure that the breeder has at least some experience with blood tracking or can give you a reference or two - hopefully someone willing to spend the time to help you get started. Some breeders of "blood tracking dogs" unfortunately lack either the tracking experience or willingness to help out puppy buyers getting started.
Feel free to drop me a PM if you get seriously interested and we can talk. We are certainly no experts on this, but we are learning!
Ryan
There's nothing better than watching a dog do what it was born to do. Great stuff.
QuoteOriginally posted by gringol:
There's nothing better than watching a dog do what it was born to do. Great stuff.
I love it when you can see a dog working in the field turn towards you and "smile" as it does exactly that!
QuoteOriginally posted by Hawkeye:
QuoteOriginally posted by gringol:
There's nothing better than watching a dog do what it was born to do. Great stuff.
I love it when you can see a dog working in the field turn towards you and "smile" as it does exactly that! [/b]
I've got a chessie that grins all the time. It looks a little like a snarl, but his tail wags and he acts like a goofy puppy. He was a great retriever in his day, but he's 12 now and doesn't have much left. I'm just hoping that he goes in his sleep, cause I don't know if I'll have the heart to put him down.
Reminds me of a quote from Eric Liddell in the old "Chariots of Fire" movie.
When Liddell's sister wanted him to shun the Olympics to concentrate on his training for missionary work, he said, "... I believe that God made me for a purpose... for China... but He also made me F-A-S-T, and when I run, I feel His pleasure!"
That's what I see in our hunting dogs.
Anyone thinking of purchasing his(her) first blood tracking dog should become familiar with United Blood Trackers (check out the UBT web site). They have a list of owners who will make their dogs available to others. I was getting tons of calls, but my knees won't let me work my dog anymore, unless I can carefully pick the terrain. Those same guys can be invaluable mentors. Find one near you (they are listed by area with phone numbers) and see if he is someone you would like to train with. It's just like any other aspect of hunting/shooting - most are more than willing to share their expertise and you can "cherry pick" what works for you.
Ryan, I'm sure you've had the same experience with hunters waiting way to long to call you. I got a call late Friday evening and didn't really want to commit to anything anyway, but the final turn-off came when I asked the guy when he shot his "once in a life time" buck. He shot it the previous Monday and didn't call sooner because he didn't have any money until payday. I told him most trackers do not charge, or if the do, just gas money. I also told him in no uncertain terms I wasn't going to do that to my young dog.
Ron
Ron - good advice about finding a local mentor!
Yep, you get all kinds of strange calls. Had one guy call on a Wednesday evening about a deer he shot the previous Friday afternoon. This was early season and like 80 degrees, hot and dry. He didn't know where he hit the deer - he shot at it through the brush because it was "so big he couldn't pass up the chance". Hit it somewhere, had a little blood an no arrow. He told me that this deer was so big if we found it that it would "make my dog a movie star" blah, blah, blah, and that "I'd thank him for the resume builder". Yeah, right. He waited to call because he didn't want anyone knowing about his "honey hole spot". He got pretty upset when I said no chance, no way, buddy. During his rant he asked me what I expected him to do and I told him to go sit in his truck and watch for buzzards. This is one reason I don't charge - I refuse to be the "employee" of a guy like this one.
A funny call came in a month or so ago - some lady from Chicago called me...."You are the guy with the tracking dog, right?" - Yep - "Well, can you come up and track my dog, he ran away last week"......uh, not THAT kind of tracking! I guess she wanted my dog to smell the scent of her dog on its dog bed and track it down....like a bloodhound chasing prisoners in "Cool Hand Luke"!
Ryan
WooHoo for Weenie ( Anything BUT Weenies) Dogs!! :thumbsup: Awsome Pets and Awsome Companions!! :clapper: :clapper: Great for You R.R.!! Fellow Hoosier too!! :goldtooth:
I sure like the idea of a helper when I need it. For those in states that do not allow the use of dogs, why can't someone just leave the gun or bow at home and take the dog for a walk ? How can they govern that ? Go with a friend and if you find the game (dead), one of you stays with the game for prep and the other continues on the dog walk. . back to the car or truck. If no guns or bows are involved. . how can they complain ?
ChuckC
As said many times before, watching a dog, especially YOUR dog that YOU trained, work in the field-preferrably hunting not trialing-it is so thrilling. And that swagger in their walk when they know they have done good.
i know im reviving an old thread but have you guys been on any more adventures lately? i really enjoyed this thread
Thats an amazing dog!
Where did you get the help along info for doing this? In other words, where did you reason to start from, how do you begin training, etc... God Bless
Ha, its funny to see this back up again! Oskar (or "The Wiener" as we call him) is laying on my feet right now.
Couple answers to questions:
BasilK - no tracking adventures since the testing - its TOO HOT for any of that foolishness right now! Katia just told me this evening as we were watching TV that she was glad she didn't have a dog to train in this heat, 106F today and 93F at 10 pm! Seriously, we don't really need to work him on artificial lines much anymore - we'll probably do 1 or 2 in September just to get the rust off (of us more than him) before deer season. But one thing is for sure....EVERY DAY is an adventure day with a Teckel in the house!
AWP-I read Jeanneaney's first book (Tracking Dogs for Finding Wounded Deer) many moons ago and that was one starting point when we took the plunge to get a blood dog. Really, though, 80% of the support/help we had came directly from our breeder - she was a fantastic resource - and REALLY knows her dogs from a psychological standpoint. She does some tracking, has done significant amounts of testing, and some versatile hunting with her Teckels so she knows what she is talking about. A good breeder is invaluable to a new owner. With more and more folks getting into this the opportunity for mentors is expanding too....I have been talking with Whip about his new pup (hope I've helped out some) and we plan to get over to Bill Dunn's place and work our dog and his new pup some later this summer.
Ryan
Ryan,
Nice to see how involved you & your wife have been in tracking. My wife Molly wouldn't consider going hunting with me but wanted to see one of our pups on her first track. From that time on she loves to go out tracking even in the middle of the night!
It is nearly impossible to keep a Teckel in your yard unless you use a good electronic fence. They will dig under any regular yard fence and be gone hunting on their own. The Pet Safe fence system you can get from Home Depot works great but you have to have the Stubborn Dog Collar turned up to the Maximum. It's easy to enclose an area by just laying the wire on the ground or just barely burying in places you don't want someone to trip over it. We even enclosed about 7 acres on our farm in Aiken, SC.
When Cash was a pup we had the small collar on her, she broke through the fence because unannounced to us a wounded car hit deer ran behind our house...20 yards from the electric fence line! Molly couldn't find her and had to take the other dogs out to see if they could. They found her on top of that deer 500 yards away. She brought her back home only to have Cash run through the fence again...that's when we got the Stubborn Dog Collar. It gives a good shock and we've never had a problem since. With 4 dogs in the house, it is impossible to keep them in a pen or tied up. They have free range of our yard in MA, our cottage in ME, and our farm in SC...tippit
Up for fujimo
thanks mate :thumbsup:
I have a Wirehaired Dachshund I'm training. Lack of blood trails on my part is slowng the process. I've put my phone number out there but no calls. Only put her on one real blood trail this season and she did an awesome job. She's just a year and a couple months old. Your dog is way ahead on mine. Congrats!
(http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f205/BasinHunter/82A6161A-D4F0-4576-AA44-412F309F75F0.jpg) (http://s48.photobucket.com/user/BasinHunter/media/82A6161A-D4F0-4576-AA44-412F309F75F0.jpg.html)
Ryan, PM sent your way.
Ryan,
Thanks Ryan. Interesting stuff! I have a wirehaired version. She can track way better than I can handle her but we have done ok. Like Basinboy mine doesn't get enough work!
The smooth coat sounds like a good idea especially where it's warmer. That dang wirehair fur never stops growing! But in cold weather it's great. The little buggers work so hard and can play themselves out and don't have the mass to stay warm when the work is over.
I like the photos!
Tedd
(http://i1347.photobucket.com/albums/p714/tas0323/IMG_4014_zpsa8a64000.jpg)
(http://i1347.photobucket.com/albums/p714/tas0323/IMG_4015_zpsfc7f8628.jpg)
(http://i1347.photobucket.com/albums/p714/tas0323/IMG_0838_zps50a8cae0.jpg)
Sent you another PM, Ryan.