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Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: Lashbow on March 24, 2012, 11:20:00 AM

Title: my first Flemish string-failure...why? help please
Post by: Lashbow on March 24, 2012, 11:20:00 AM
After hours of you tube videos i decided to give it a whack at making my own 3 bunch flemish string.
Made the jig, and started going along. after a few practice runs at getting the twists right, I finally had a completed string. looked pretty good too.
I strung it on my bow and before I could let out all of the tension of my stringer the top end unraveled or just came apart? It did not look real loose and I had about 5" of splice. with it off the bow I took the other loop that is still intact, put it on a hook and gave it some good pulls. Sturdy as an OX.
Why did this happen? At this point I am nervous as can be about putting git on my bow, I would not like to have it go at full draw.
16 strands of B-50, 64" 62# bow

Thanks,

Lash
Title: Re: my first Flemish string-failure...why? help please
Post by: Grey Taylor on March 24, 2012, 11:42:00 AM
I'm going to make an educated guess that you twisted the first loop one way and then did the second loop the other way. It's a very common mistake but it will result in the string immediately coming apart when tension is put on it.
Both loops need to be twisted the same way, regardless of what your brain tells you, twist them both the same way and it will work fine.

Guy
Title: Re: my first Flemish string-failure...why? help please
Post by: JRY309 on March 24, 2012, 11:46:00 AM
Did you twist both ends the same way?I had a buddy many years ago wanted to make up a string.He twisted one end one way and twisted the other end the opposite way and it unraveled as soon as it was under tension.This was before you tube and he had no instruction,just wanted to learn to make his own strings.A learning experience for him.Next time hang it up on a nail and hang a weight on it and see if it unravels or holds the weight.
Title: Re: my first Flemish string-failure...why? help please
Post by: Red Tailed Hawk on March 24, 2012, 11:47:00 AM
Sounds like you may have twisted the 2 end loops in different directions. When string gets tensioned  it should want to tighten at the ends, if one unravels it probably was twisted the wrong way.

16 strands of B-50 should be fine for a 62# bow.
Title: Re: my first Flemish string-failure...why? help please
Post by: Lashbow on March 24, 2012, 12:15:00 PM
I actually did the loops the same. I twisted the bunches clockwise then folded the two bunches one twist counter CW.once that loop was done, went to the other side of the string and exact same thing. CW twist bunches the CCW the bunches back over each other. It was a 3 bunch string so I know I am not explaining the 3rd step but basically that same thing just with the 3rd bunch. Each of the strands of the bunch are different lengths to help it gradually fold back into the string. I have about 5" splice from the end of the loop to the longest strand. So to the shortest strand in the splice it might be a bit shorter of a splice. The splice does not look much shorter than the string that came with my bow.
I actually shortened one end just now and made a longer splice in the end that came out. Re strung it and now both loops came undone. Can it be too short of a splice? I am going over in my head and I swear I can't see how the loops are going in the opposite direction. I am making them the same way on both ends. Any other ideas? Am i missing something?
Title: Re: my first Flemish string-failure...why? help please
Post by: wingnut on March 24, 2012, 12:22:00 PM
Yep going opposite directions otherwise tension will tighten the string.  I did it on the first 4-5 trys myself.

Mike
Title: Re: my first Flemish string-failure...why? help please
Post by: Grey Taylor on March 24, 2012, 12:42:00 PM
Jasen, do you have any way to post pictures of what you're doing?
String making is one of those things that just dies when you try to describe it with just typed words.

Guy
Title: Re: my first Flemish string-failure...why? help please
Post by: anchorman on March 24, 2012, 01:23:00 PM
I am going to say like everyone else you twisted it the wrong way, don't feel bad I know several people who have done the same thing. Myself included. But either a video or some sort of pictures would help alot...

"Garfield"
Title: Re: my first Flemish string-failure...why? help please
Post by: Orion on March 24, 2012, 03:30:00 PM
When you put the string on the bow, do you give it 25-30 twists before stringing it?  If you don't, the string will unravel when you put it under tension.
Title: Re: my first Flemish string-failure...why? help please
Post by: Lashbow on March 24, 2012, 03:42:00 PM
Thanks guys,
I will try to get some pictures.
If you can see both loops in the picture will you be able to see if it is twisted wrong? I want to make sure i post pictures that are helpful

Jasen
Title: Re: my first Flemish string-failure...why? help please
Post by: Lashbow on March 24, 2012, 04:01:00 PM
My 1st attempt at posting a pic
1st loop

http://i1234.photobucket.com/albums/ff412/lashbow/port150.jpg
Title: Re: my first Flemish string-failure...why? help please
Post by: Grey Taylor on March 24, 2012, 04:02:00 PM
Both loops and the splices in the picture will be a good start. I'm sure we'll start hollerin' if we need more.

Guy
Title: Re: my first Flemish string-failure...why? help please
Post by: Grey Taylor on March 24, 2012, 04:04:00 PM
(http://i1234.photobucket.com/albums/ff412/lashbow/port150.jpg)
Title: Re: my first Flemish string-failure...why? help please
Post by: Lashbow on March 24, 2012, 04:20:00 PM
(http://i1234.photobucket.com/albums/ff412/lashbow/port153.jpg)
Title: Re: my first Flemish string-failure...why? help please
Post by: Lashbow on March 24, 2012, 04:21:00 PM
Sorry wrong one, and sized wrong
Title: Re: my first Flemish string-failure...why? help please
Post by: Lashbow on March 24, 2012, 04:29:00 PM
OK I hope this works
(http://i1234.photobucket.com/albums/ff412/lashbow/IMG_0400.jpg)
(http://i1234.photobucket.com/albums/ff412/lashbow/IMG_0403.jpg)
(http://i1234.photobucket.com/albums/ff412/lashbow/IMG_0404.jpg)
(http://i1234.photobucket.com/albums/ff412/lashbow/IMG_0408.jpg)
(http://i1234.photobucket.com/albums/ff412/lashbow/IMG_0415.jpg)
Title: Re: my first Flemish string-failure...why? help please
Post by: Lashbow on March 24, 2012, 04:30:00 PM
I swear i re sized to 550 wide. Sorry they are huge
Jasen
Title: Re: my first Flemish string-failure...why? help please
Post by: Grey Taylor on March 24, 2012, 05:27:00 PM
You got me... those splices look fine so far as both being made in the same direction.
If that's not the problem then I'm stumped.

Guy
Title: Re: my first Flemish string-failure...why? help please
Post by: Lashbow on March 24, 2012, 06:01:00 PM
I did make a 6 strand 2 bunch string for my daughter. I am not stringing on a heavy bow, but it holds great under me tugging at it.
I am puzzled too

Jasen
Title: Re: my first Flemish string-failure...why? help please
Post by: yaderehey on March 24, 2012, 06:09:00 PM
The couple of times I've had flemish strings I've made pull apart I twisted the loops just fine, but when I went to put the final twist in the whole string before bracing the bow I twisted the wrong way.  Sometimes it seems to me it's kind of an optical illusion where it looks like you ought to twist it one way when it actually should be the other.
Title: Re: my first Flemish string-failure...why? help please
Post by: Orion on March 24, 2012, 06:48:00 PM
That's what I suggested earlier.  Need to twist the string about two turns per inch, (n the correct direction, of course) before stringing the bow.  Are you doing that?
Title: Re: my first Flemish string-failure...why? help please
Post by: Lashbow on March 24, 2012, 07:45:00 PM
I did twist it but not near 2 turns per inch. I was thinking to brace it first then after it stretched twist it up.
Is that the issue. Not enough twists in the string?
I know I did not twist it much
Title: Re: my first Flemish string-failure...why? help please
Post by: Red Tailed Hawk on March 24, 2012, 09:46:00 PM
I am kinda stumped, those pics of the loops look pretty good to me   :dunno:
Title: Re: my first Flemish string-failure...why? help please
Post by: Red Tailed Hawk on March 24, 2012, 09:47:00 PM
I will say that I find fast flight much easier to work with than b-50, but thats really not relevant to your post.
Title: Re: my first Flemish string-failure...why? help please
Post by: koops4 on March 26, 2012, 02:31:00 PM
I would have to agree with Orion about the twisting of the string.  I had the same problem when I started making flemish twist strings.
Title: Re: my first Flemish string-failure...why? help please
Post by: Lashbow on March 26, 2012, 02:58:00 PM
I will remake and this time make sure I have the twist in it. Just curious, on a 61" string, how much can I expect it to stretch?
Title: Re: my first Flemish string-failure...why? help please
Post by: wingnut on March 26, 2012, 03:05:00 PM
My photoshop is down but if you take the last pic and place them end to end you will see they are twisting in the opposite way.  The twists of the string need to go from end to end.  Otherwise it will unravel when stretched.

Mike
Title: Re: my first Flemish string-failure...why? help please
Post by: wingnut on March 26, 2012, 03:07:00 PM
double post
Title: Re: my first Flemish string-failure...why? help please
Post by: L82HUNT on March 26, 2012, 04:32:00 PM
A string should look like this when twisted right laying next to eachother.  Hard to tell but are you twisting the string and wrapping the bundles in the same direction?
   (http://i631.photobucket.com/albums/uu36/L82HUNT/utf-8BV2VudHp2aWxsZS0yMDEyMDMyNi0wMDI5Ny5qcGc.jpg)
Title: Re: my first Flemish string-failure...why? help please
Post by: Jasper2 on March 26, 2012, 04:57:00 PM
Your loops don't look too bad to me....the only thing that I notice is that your string will have to be twisted counterclockwise before putting it on the bow.  The picture that Glenn posted would have to be twisted clockwise b/c his twists are the opposite direction.....I guess it doesn't matter as I've seen and had strings both ways???
Title: Re: my first Flemish string-failure...why? help please
Post by: Lashbow on March 26, 2012, 06:55:00 PM
In my last picture, they appear to ME anyway, that they are twisted the same direction. Am I missing something.
I am twisting the bundles one way and then wrapping the opposite way.

Jasen
Title: Re: my first Flemish string-failure...why? help please
Post by: L82HUNT on March 26, 2012, 07:01:00 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by Lashbow:
In my last picture, they appear to ME anyway, that they are twisted the same direction. Am I missing something.

Jasen
It looks that way to me to.  What are we missing.     :knothead:  

Have you tried a 2 bundle there easier to start with I think.
Title: Re: my first Flemish string-failure...why? help please
Post by: cjgregory on March 26, 2012, 07:11:00 PM
Twist away and wrap towards.  when this happened to me I was twisting towards and wrapping away. (holding loop end in left hand and twisitn and wrapping with right hand)
Title: Re: my first Flemish string-failure...why? help please
Post by: Grey Taylor on March 26, 2012, 07:19:00 PM
It doesn't matter which way the loops are made so long as they are both the same.
For instance, Lashbow's last picture and L82hunt's picture shows strings that are made opposite to one another... BUT, the loops on both strings are made the same as their brother so they'll be fine.
What we can't see and has been noted as a possibility is the center section maybe being twisted in the wrong direction. Look at the splices and then look at the body of the string. The strands should continue in the same twist from the splice to the body.

Guy
Title: Re: my first Flemish string-failure...why? help please
Post by: Jasper2 on March 26, 2012, 07:43:00 PM
I agree with Guy, As long as the center section is twisted counterclockwise (the same as the loops in that picture), there shouldn't be a problem with that string.  Otherwise, I have no idea what's going on?

Jason
Title: Re: my first Flemish string-failure...why? help please
Post by: lpcjon2 on March 26, 2012, 07:44:00 PM
You should just do a two strand till you get the hang of making the twist.
Title: Re: my first Flemish string-failure...why? help please
Post by: cjgregory on March 26, 2012, 08:11:00 PM
"I agree with Guy, As long as the center section is twisted counterclockwise (the same as the loops in that picture), there shouldn't be a problem with that string."

I agree.  Hes twisting and wrapping the wrong direction.  It will unravel.  Done it myself.  Two times in a row until I figured it out.
Title: Re: my first Flemish string-failure...why? help please
Post by: landman on March 26, 2012, 08:26:00 PM
Kudos for trying it.   Keep at it, you'll figure it out.
Title: Re: my first Flemish string-failure...why? help please
Post by: L82HUNT on March 26, 2012, 08:41:00 PM
Made a few short videos.  They take along time to load so I will post as they load.  Maybe it will help.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGuWOL3YcmU&context=C458aceeADvjVQa1PpcFP1OTmvpXPeGD4OAbdF5BlGEWtKMVC2-IU=
Title: Re: my first Flemish string-failure...why? help please
Post by: L82HUNT on March 26, 2012, 09:16:00 PM
Not the best but trying to use your video on your phone twist a string and film it at the same time is tuff.

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8mp4kYyIWI&context=C458aceeADvjVQa1PpcFP1OTmvpXPeGD4OAbdF5BlGEWtKMVC2-IU=  


 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_15M017kCZE&feature=channel


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hp_umijyljQ&context=C458aceeADvjVQa1PpcFP1OTmvpXPeGD4OAbdF5BlGEWtKMVC2-IU=
Title: Re: my first Flemish string-failure...why? help please
Post by: JamesKerr on March 26, 2012, 10:42:00 PM
I would try making some 2 bundle strings and see how they come out. I can make 2 bundle strings fine, but when I try a 3 bundle it comes out all wrong.
Title: Re: my first Flemish string-failure...why? help please
Post by: Lashbow on March 29, 2012, 02:44:00 PM
I made another attempt at the string. Re made the loops and made sure I put a sufficient twist in the string in between the loops. Well it ended up a bit too short for my longbow, but I twisted it some more and made it at least string on my recurve, It is really too long but it did at least put a good amount of tension on it. pulled it back a few times and seems to be just fine.
The problem was not twisting the entire string before stringing on the bow.
Thanks all for your help!
Jasen
Title: Re: my first Flemish string-failure...why? help please
Post by: Orion on March 29, 2012, 07:05:00 PM
Yep.  That's what I figured.  Glad it's working for you now.
Title: Re: my first Flemish string-failure...why? help please
Post by: Jeff Strubberg on March 29, 2012, 08:39:00 PM
When you twist the first loop, you will get counter twist in the body of the string.  If you don't take precautions against that, the first time you put pressure on the string one of the loops will unravel as you described.

Some put twist in the sting before they start.  I always ended up with too many or too few twists when I tried that.  If you just use your fingers to comb through the bundles after making your first loop, you will remove the counter twist and the string will come out fine.
Title: Re: my first Flemish string-failure...why? help please
Post by: Lashbow on March 29, 2012, 09:55:00 PM
OK all, I am confused again.
To see how short I was on the string, so I can adjust next time. I stuck it on a nail and measured. just shy of 60". HMMM, I wonder what the string I have on the bow is. just shy of 60"
OK so I brace it with the string I made. 9" brace height. Too much. I unstrung and restrung with the string that came with the bow. Brace is at 7.5"
So I measured the two strings again, just to make sure. They are within a 1/4" of each other.
How is this possible. My 1st thought is it has something to do with the new string needing to stretch, but it was brace on my 60" curve the entire day yesterday, granted it is too long for that bow, but it was under tension.
both string B-50
What gives?

Jasen
Title: Re: my first Flemish string-failure...why? help please
Post by: Grey Taylor on March 29, 2012, 10:23:00 PM
All I can say at this point is that it takes more than just being braced for a string to stretch out. Some guys shoot it for a couple weeks, some guys hang heavy weights on it overnight. But simply putting it on the bow won't do enough.

Guy
Title: Re: my first Flemish string-failure...why? help please
Post by: Lashbow on March 30, 2012, 09:33:00 AM
It shrunk by 3/4 of an inch overnight. Oh I am talking about the string I made in case we have anyone just tuning in. I'll put some arrows through it this weekend and see what happens.
Funny that when unstrung they would measure the same.
does it stretch that much from loose to being strung?
Title: Re: my first Flemish string-failure...why? help please
Post by: Jeff Strubberg on March 30, 2012, 12:21:00 PM
They stretch a lot when you apply pressure, especially B50.  

The more twists you have in the body of the string, the worse the stretch will be.
Title: Re: my first Flemish string-failure...why? help please
Post by: gringol on March 30, 2012, 12:30:00 PM
I think you might just need more wax.  B-50 is pretty slick on it's own.  The first string I made was with synthetic sinew, which is heavily waxed; I had no problems.  I switched to b-50 and had the same problems you are having.  I couldn't fix it until I waxed heavily before the twisting began and a little during the twisting.  Also, but sure you twist and tighten as hard as you can.
Title: Re: my first Flemish string-failure...why? help please
Post by: Lashbow on March 31, 2012, 06:59:00 PM
Since my brace decreased a little. I decided to serve the string. I have shot a few arrows through it and checked my brace height. 7.75" right where it needs to be. I will continue to check as I shoot to make sure it where it needs to be. All in all I learned a lot. What not to do, and that I was doing a lot of things right,
Now I just need more bows to make strings for.
Thanks again

Jasen