In the past year I have called no less than 5 places where pigs are a serious problem. When I ask if my son and I can come down and spend a week with our bows hunting hogs, the guy tells me how much it costs.
Cost? I thought there were pigs ripping the place up? lol So what I'm gathering, not only do they get money for damage done but also charge hunters. LMAO
I don't quite know what to think of that. It would be a bad thing for the hogs to go away I would think. I'm not being critical I just don't think there is a pig "problem". Pigs aren't a problem...too much money to be made with the pigs there. Am I off base on this?
I live here and cannot get anyone to let me hunt hogs for free! Pigs are very destructive and can be quite a nuisance (sp). If you were to ever own land where pigs a prevalent, you would know what I was talking about. That being said, there are too many people out there who are willing to pay to hunt them so the landowners down here look at them as another source of income (almost all hunting down here is on private property and on a by fee structure - either day lease or yearly lease).
Bisch
That's messed up. I've heard it's hard to get on ground for free down there. I'm hoping to get down to TX next year but I'm planning on doing a public land hunt.
its like that anywhere. the deer hunters complain of the hogs in MS but nobody wants you to come hunt them in the off season. I know if we ever get pigs I'll prolly put the bow down for a 12 ga cause we dont want them anywhere close to our deer hunting ground
I do not know about free but it is cheap. I got an offer of $100 a day with unlimited number of hogs so if you willing to pay little and can book in advance then you can have fun.
I wonder who hire those helicopter operations and pay them for killing hogs?
-Inder
I guess a hundred a day wouldn't be too bad. Still I don't think they want the hogs to go away unless you took away the crop damage insurance against hogs and the feds clammed down then I think the hog problem would be gone in less than two years.
The only thing a Texas landowner hates more than pigs on his land is someone traipsing around on his land unattended. I had a time finding ranches to hunt on, even for money. A couple million dollars of liabilty insurance coverage helps to open the conversation regarding access.
Pretty much agree with Bish. Not looking to get into a debate, but I don't see anything wrong with charging for hog hunting. The fact is that there are enough people that will pay to hunt them and the Texans can get money to help fund the repairs of the land. It works I think. Secondly, when you talk about $100 a day to kill as many hogs as you can, that's a dang site better than the $500 or so a day we pay to hunt deer there. Cheap deal, take it.
I also don't see any difference in the crop damage deer do in the mid-west, we are charged to kill deer there. I for one would not expect anyone to let me hunt for free on their land
The days when I grew up, when landowners gladly let you hunt are sadly long gone. I don't think you will find anyone letting people hunt when they can charge for it. Just saying
A lot of these places that are charging hunters, don't want the pigs eradicated. They do use them as a source of income. But the hunters also assist them in being able to keep the populations in check, and therefore not having the poopulations get out of control. In this instance it is win win, because for the most part the hunts are fairly cheap. If you would like to hunt for free, you can come set up on any of WMAs and have a go at them. The only problem is it has to be during an open season for other game.
It's all about, $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Just plain economics. There is a greater demand to hunt hogs than there are ranches to hunt them on. the fact that hogs cause damage doesn't change that. It only depresses the price.
But for what you get it's pretty cheap compared to deer, or even in some cases waterfowl or upland birds if you want to get fancy.
Can you insure a grain crop against hog damage?
Most of the ranches you will pay to day hunt on have feeders filled/tended by the ranch owner/foreman, stands placed for various wind directions, game cameras so they know when the hogs are hitting the feeders to help you be successful, and they'll take you out and pick you up from your stand. Corn is $10+ a bag and a man's time isn't free....especially if you're hunting hogs that aren't hitting the feeders until 10pm or later.
$100 a day is cheap for that kind of operation and to kill as many as you can. Just do an internet search for hog hunting by the name of the county and look for recent articles about county wide hog killing contests. These contests involve lots of dog running, etc. and can really throw the hogs off their pattern.....don't ask me how I know. :banghead:
ScottL wrote: " lot of these places that are charging hunters, don't want the pigs eradicated. They do use them as a source of income."
I believe this is the real reason. Pigs are here to stay. It is a good idea actually. You can get hunters to hunt year round.
HOWEVER...I think it should be recorded as so it can be subtracted from the insurance amount. If you do this and become legit...you can write off all the farming expenses as contributive to the hunting venture. Then if you thin the hogs out too much you can still sell the crops.
Double dipping at the taxpayers expense is not something I want to pay for as a tax payer. I have lots of hay and know how the insurance works. NOthing like driving up our insurance costs as well.
"Can you insure a grain crop against hog damage? "
Oh yes Pat. Its not actually "hog damage" it's ANY damage or loss of a farmers crop. This also includes the yield. If it costs more to harvest the crop than its worth then its a loss and insurance covers this. Dry land farmers experience this all the time a dry year will still grow the crop but there is not enough yield to harvest it without loosing money or making 5 cents a bushel (just an example).
I know because I grow horse grass hay. If a lightning strick comes in and burns it down right before I cut it then I'm covered. That is an extreme of course. I don't have insureance on it.
This are federally funded. The premiums could never cover a loss or damage. It is subsidized.
Pigs, elk....they're all the same. Before elk season landowners don't want anybody spooking them off their property because they bring $$ into their pockets. As soon as the seasons are over they want the elk eating the neighbors hay and not theirs. If elk aren't producing $$$ for them, they call G&F asking for help moving them off or paying 'damage fee's'. I imagine its the same for a number of other wildlife species.
Yea, I went down there 100.00 a day. Supposed to be over run with hogs, got all hyped up. 900 miles later pulled in set up camp,hunted five days didnt even see a hog. No one did.They blamed it on the weather. Iam not a pig expert by any means so maybe the weather did have some thing to do with it. But the weather was the same for several weeks before we got there.(70's during the day 40's at night)We did get a few javelina though and had a good time,but I think the over run with hog issue is to get people down there to spend money.When they are truly "over run" with them I hope they will pay us to come "choot um"
:knothead: Sorry ranting deleted
Another thing to consider is a bowhunter wont make even the slightest dent in the pig poulation....
So, as mentioned earlier, why let a stranger traipse around your land with no real incentive. Money becomes the incentive. Its called a trespass fee. Texas is mostly private land...just the nature of the beast.
Also, they're mostly nocturnal. They arent always as easy to hunt as you might think.
In Texas, hogs are considered a cash crop to be hunted all year long. And the vast majority of them are nocturnal.
It's the nature of the business......and the beast.
I hunted and trapped hogs for some of the local land owners for 3 years. Spent lots of money and time without being paid anything. We could come in the first of march and get out before Oct. not to interfere with their hunting deer. They were doing us a favor by letting us get rid of their pests. Now I let them deal with the problem themselves.
I live in the country of Texas. 100 bucks a day keeps out the riff raff, which there is plenty. Most ranchers love honest hunters, but remeber, for every 100 well intentioned hunters, there is one dude that gut shoots everything, throws trash everywhere, and bad mouths the ranch on the web. 100 bucks is a small tariff to pay to visit our fine country.
Hey cj. How goes it?
Pigs are a problem here, but the money a farmer or rancher can get for allowing the hunting goes a long way toward keeping them in business.
I don't have a problem with a property owner charging for hunting. I kinda cringe at the amounts most of them charge, but it's their property, and "People Will Pay".
You can't compete with money Bro. Unless you have a lot of it, and want to.
Rick
QuoteOriginally posted by SaltyDawg:
Hey cj. How goes it?
Pigs are a problem here, but the money a farmer or rancher can get for allowing the hunting goes a long way toward keeping them in business.
I don't have a problem with a property owner charging for hunting. I kinda cringe at the amounts most of them charge, but it's their property, and "People Will Pay".
You can't compete with money Bro. Unless you have a lot of it, and want to.
Rick
Rick head the nail on the head! Yep,if you don't pay it,their's going to be someone that will.
Ernie
Texas or as someone said above "the Country of Texas", is pretty much private and they like it that way and don't mind telling you about it. Have spent the last 10 winters (1 month )in Texas. As a maatter of fact I just got back to the "land of the free, Michigan, Tuesday. My buddy, paralyzed Viet Nam vet, who we visit explained hunting to me this way. You pay a trespass fee according to the size of deer you want to kill and someone sits in the blind with you and after the dinner bell go's off (the corn feeder) a few minutes later the deer come out. The guy sitting with you tells you the cost of the bucks that stand in front of you. You make a mistake and your $3,000 buck could turn into a $15,000 buck with the pull of a trigger.
I don't listen to the grumbling of the hog damage much.
QuoteOriginally posted by Jon Stewart:
Texas or as someone said above "the Country of Texas", is pretty much private and they like it that way and don't mind telling you about it. Have spent the last 10 winters (1 month )in Texas. As a maatter of fact I just got back to the "land of the free, Michigan, Tuesday. My buddy, paralyzed Viet Nam vet, who we visit explained hunting to me this way. You pay a trespass fee according to the size of deer you want to kill and someone sits in the blind with you and after the dinner bell go's off (the corn feeder) a few minutes later the deer come out. The guy sitting with you tells you the cost of the bucks that stand in front of you. You make a mistake and your $3,000 buck could turn into a $15,000 buck with the pull of a trigger.
I don't listen to the grumbling of the hog damage much.
Oh geez
A ranch just West of Eden,Texas shot 165 hogs in four days from a helicopter. They still had two days left from the helicopter. The guy stated they would still have plenty of hogs to hunt. They have never hunted hogs with bows on the ranch. I asked about a hog hunt with 10 hunters and I would be responible for the ten hunters(gates shut,trash,things left the way they were found) etc etc. and at a sweet price for $70 a day. I called twice without a reply! Come to find out they were still hunting the hogs from above. TxAg had it right, their thoughts were we would spend a weekend chasing hogs around and not take enough off the ranch. I asked them to give me a call when they were through from the air and let some trad guys have some fun while taking some of the probelm away and make money to pay the helicopter. Still waiting for that call :)
Calif used to be an easy hog hunting state. They now charge a bunch. Money talks in these tough Econ times.
Its the landowners land, he can charge a trespass fee if he wants to or he can choose to let you hunt for free. As a landowner, why would you just let someone you have never met hunt for free and entrust your life's work or dream to? Will that person care for and tend to the land like it was their own while they are there hunting? Would you just let someone have full access to your land because he sounds like a nice guy or he had a solid handshake? The problem that your facing is one guy did sound and act reputable and honest, but did a lot of damage to the farmer and ranchers place and never offered to help pay for it in the past.
Yes, it would be nice that I could just accept a handshake and trust someone to hunt my place and know that the place will be better than when they arrived or that THEY will call me in the middle of the Texas summer and offer to do chores and just general work around the place.
I can understand your frustration, but I think there is more to the sorry than just money. If you might have noticed, Texas is coming off the worst drought in a very long time. So many long time farmers and ranchers had to sell all their stock, lost so much money feeding them out, paid an exorbitant amount of money for round bales or even worse lost their land. Wouldn't you charge a trespass fee if meant you could make a little money (notice the word a little) and rid your farm of a nuisance?
I am not trying to stir the pot, I just wanted to give a landowners side of the story.
Good post 4BTradArchery
I am really not trying to stir the pot, I just thought maybe some would want to hear a landowners perspective on the issue.
I have land to hunt on just no hogs! Perfect example this past weekend while we were working on fence. Individuals on the place for free let their sons take the vehicle. While out on their joy ride they ran through every mud hole and a low area that holds water when we have a alot of rain in a short period of time. They ran through the water with their 4x4 and made deep holes and ruts without a care. They came very close to turning the vehicle over right in front of our face. The dad's are pi$$ed because now they are looking for another place to roam for free. This issue was not totally the dad's fault as they were not in the vehicle but they were told about the one's son doing this before. He would still have a place to go if he would have made a good decision to not let the son drive alone.
Been there, done that, bought the t-shirt
QuoteOriginally posted by cjgregory:
.......unless you took away the crop damage insurance against hogs and the feds clammed down then I think the hog problem would be gone in less than two years.
CJ- if u were turned loose along with 1000 of your closest friends armed with machine guns for 365 straight days dawn to dark there would be around the same number of hogs in TX at the end of that year as there were when you started- you'd barely be able to keep the population static.
I agree it's counterintuitive given conditions but when was the last time you said to yourself "you know I really am impressed by the level of logic displayed by the average American these days"
That is the way it is in Texas, If there is one univervesal truth its "Dont try to change Texans, and dont tell them what they can do with their own land".You will only make them dig in and push harder. Actually I have always admired them for that
Land and the costs involved in managing it arent cheap and if you want to hunt a mans ground that he pays for from his pocket, helping him a little with that burden is only fair.
There is no free lunch, plain and simple as that.
I just got back from my first trip hunting in Texas. Awesome country and really nice folks. Atleast the few I met.
But the statement one Texan made to me kind of embodied the feeling I got about how folks hunted down there.
He said, " You should come deer hunting down here some time, we killed a 180 buck last year that had only been on protien for 3 years."
HUH?
:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
QuoteOriginally posted by Bisch:
I live here and cannot get anyone to let me hunt hogs for free! Pigs are very destructive and can be quite a nuisance (sp). If you were to ever own land where pigs a prevalent, you would know what I was talking about. That being said, there are too many people out there who are willing to pay to hunt them so the landowners down here look at them as another source of income (almost all hunting down here is on private property and on a by fee structure - either day lease or yearly lease).
Bisch
Yep...
I agree it's counterintuitive given conditions but when was the last time you said to yourself "you know I really am impressed by the level of logic displayed by the average American these days" [/QB][/QUOTE]
:knothead: possibly sad but true
On a hunting note... I'd love to hunt hogs someday!
messed up that quote thing from Ray
nobody mentioned -the State of Texas requires a license for out of staters to hunt hogs. That tells me they don't consider them very much of a problem.
If you don't live out here you just don't understand. We have been in a serious drought for years. Most of our county burned down last year. The cattle are dying and there is no feed or water for them. Land owners make more money from hunts now than cattle. Any kind of hunt. Hogs are a cash crop.
Running a legit hog operation requires a lot of startup capital for feeders, stands, trail cams, lease cost, insurance,fuel, advertising,time,sweat equity, etc.(not complaining, it's part of doing business)
I would be suspicious of an operation charging only $100 a day, unlimited hogs.
Hogs are by nature mostly nocturnal. Timed feeders keep them a little more active during daylight hours but definitely isn't a sure thing.
We have plenty of daytime hog activity in central
Florida.Hunting pressure, or lack of, is the key.
Sometimes one gets lucky.
Since I live in southeast Texas, there are a lot of hogs in the dense woods.
A lady who lives a half mile from me down the same road, saw me one day practice shooting my recurve in my front yard as she drove by. She backed up, pulled into my drive way and chatted with me for a awhile.
Long story short. She told me she has quite a few wild pigs on her property causing some damage and if I wanted, I could bowhunt them at no charge as long as I eat them. I told her if I kill it, I eat it.
I've killed two wild hogs on her place. One was 115# and the other was 95#. Both made for some very tender eating. I made sure some of this tender meat was given to her too.
Sometimes, even in Texas, one gets lucky and doesn't have to pay to hunt wild hogs, but these situations are very far and very few inbetween.
I live here in Texas,and have seen that the people that are really serious about not wanting hogs on their place because of damage usually set out a lot of traps. I am fortunate to have a couple of friends that have places with hogs on them,and I get to go hunting on them from time to time.
QuoteOriginally posted by John Nail:
nobody mentioned -the State of Texas requires a license for out of staters to hunt hogs. That tells me they don't consider them very much of a problem.
Residents have to have a license as well
I understand your situation; if you can't beat 'em, then find a way to work a deal. Maybe run an ad, or check with local Agricultural Extension Agent, or Wildlife Biologists familiar with a county or two your interested in start.
Find an area with hog problems, ask for a yearly lease if you have enough friends to split expenses.
I have never hunted the hogs, but we go down every year for javelina. I won't tell you the price - it is really cheap. We have become good friends with everyone on the ranch and they look forward to us coming. Yes they charge the whitetail deer and mule deer hunters quite a bit. For us - cheap. They think we are crazy to drive from Colo to shoot arrows at the javelina. However, I also know a neighboring ranch that charges as much or more to hunt javelina than hogs. It is crazy - I would not pay it myself, but each to his own. If you have that kind of money you will spend it on some kind of recreation - hunting, fishing, cruise ship, etc.
Here in ca the ranchers will stand in line to tell you no at least u can buy day hunts or leases in Texas.
Hmmmm....This thread has been enlightening for me. I agree that a landowner has the right to charge trespass fees for hunters. However, there's just something about a farmer/rancher who gets subsidized for the damage caused by hogs through public funds yet doesn't let the public hunt that just doesn't sit well with me.
I guess I won't be making any plans to hunt Texas hogs.
Common down to Mississippi and kill our hogs FREE. Over 100,000 acres of public land to hunt with lots of hogs just out my back door. All you need is your liscense, well... and some arrows. Can hunt hogs during turkey season which opens April 1 and runs for a month.
James
QuoteOriginally posted by jsweka:
Hmmmm....This thread has been enlightening for me. I agree that a landowner has the right to charge trespass fees for hunters. However, there's just something about a farmer/rancher who gets subsidized for the damage caused by hogs through public funds yet doesn't let the public hunt that just doesn't sit well with me.
I guess I won't be making any plans to hunt Texas hogs.
No subsidizies for my pasture land or hay meadows! Just me fixin it.
QuoteOriginally posted by jsweka:
Hmmmm....This thread has been enlightening for me. I agree that a landowner has the right to charge trespass fees for hunters. However, there's just something about a farmer/rancher who gets subsidized for the damage caused by hogs through public funds yet doesn't let the public hunt that just doesn't sit well with me.
I guess I won't be making any plans to hunt Texas hogs.
Allowing bowhunters to hunt their land will do nothing to control the population and will not lessen the damage - it only gives recreational opportunity to the hunter with nothing for the landowner.
Land owners do incur some liability (risk) when someone is on their land.
Ground Hunter hit it right there. As the son of a cotton/peanut farmer here in South Alabama... we get all sorts down here wanting to hunt for free on the property that we own and lease. We have 4000+ of row crop land. We have to pay insurance for liability, including if some dumby rides onto our property with or without our knowledge and injures themselves... therefore you have to pay a trespass fee, so we can pay for the insurance. I frankly dont see the problem here.
Blame our sue-happy society where people do stupid crap all on their own, yet you are responsible bc they are standing on your land, whether they have permission to be there or not.
Also, when it comes to the insurance thing. Farmers pay for those premiums, it is not directly subsidized by the government. We sell crop insurance as well, and if there are catastrophic losses in a region, then the company we sell for has to have the investments to pay the losses. The insurance companies have insurance as well in case there are problems like that. It's funny how so many think that all farmers are on the government dole. We havent seen a subsidy in the south in decades, not that I am complaining. All those go to the states who have different political leanings further north of us.
Been preaching it for years – Leasing and pay to hunt is cancerous and will be the demise of hunting we once knew, and unless hunters wake up and take a stand, someday all hunting will only be for the wealthy. Ask the Europeans...
Personally, I have never paid to hunt and never will.
I wouldn't mind paying a trespass fee or something towards the upkeep on a place. I would gladly sign a waiver of liability too. I also wouldn't mind helping out any way I could. The problem is I don't know where to find a place that has hogs and is willing to do that. The places you see in the newspaper are probably overrun by everyone and their brother. I am around Houston and am new. I have no clue where to find places like that that are within a couple hours drive of me. I can't exactly just hop in the car and drive around asking people.
Where are these places that are trad friendly for hogs?
Nalajr
QuoteOriginally posted by Nala:
I wouldn't mind paying a trespass fee or something towards the upkeep on a place. I would gladly sign a waiver of liability too. I also wouldn't mind helping out any way I could. The problem is I don't know where to find a place that has hogs and is willing to do that. The places you see in the newspaper are probably overrun by everyone and their brother. I am around Houston and am new. I have no clue where to find places like that that are within a couple hours drive of me. I can't exactly just hop in the car and drive around asking people.
Where are these places that are trad friendly for hogs?
Nalajr
Try Craigslist, try the local co-op feed store, try tpwd website for public land, or even corp of engineering land
I dont know where folks get the idea tha landowners get subsidies to repair hog damage, it aint so. Every landowner I know, myself included, spends time and money every year repairing damage.
If you combine the liability issue with having strangers roaming your land and the fact that they are not going to kill enough hogs to actually impact the population.... it makes it hard to justify.
Viron is hitting the head of the nail. There's certainly no shame in landowner's asking the Hunter's to put a little skin in the game to help offset their overhead expenses.
There are free WMA's in TX which can be utilized for those wanting to hunt without a fee.
I have to give my opinion here.....a long time ago...hunting was more simple...You asked the landowner permission and if they gave you permission it was FREE... You gave him your name and number and licence plate if he wanted it..you thanked him and if you were lucky, you gave him a roast and maybe came back and helped him throw hay bales if it was a local hunt...I STRONGLY DIAGREE WITH PAID ACCESS,,to hunt wildlife that the landowner does not own...This will eventually lead to what has happpened in parts of Europe where only wealthy people can hunt. I personally don't believe a landowner should charge access....if you don't trust the hunter...don't let him on your land,,,pretty simple....this is my opinion...I guess I an ols fashioned and don't believe in charging to hunt.
QuoteOriginally posted by trubltrubl:
I have to give my opinion here.....a long time ago...hunting was more simple...You asked the landowner permission and if they gave you permission it was FREE... You gave him your name and number and licence plate if he wanted it..you thanked him and if you were lucky, you gave him a roast and maybe came back and helped him throw hay bales if it was a local hunt...I STRONGLY DIAGREE WITH PAID ACCESS,,to hunt wildlife that the landowner does not own...This will eventually lead to what has happpened in parts of Europe where only wealthy people can hunt. I personally don't believe a landowner should charge access....if you don't trust the hunter...don't let him on your land,,,pretty simple....this is my opinion...I guess I an ols fashioned and don't believe in charging to hunt.
True there are some guys out there, but what about the guy that shook the farmers hand and managed to make a mess of the place? Then what about the next guy that that left gates open, rutted up his field, or managed to think that grain bin was an oversize target that was put there just for him to blow a few hundred rounds through after a few too many cold ones? Did those guys ever once volunteer to pay for the damages or was it me that had to be out there fixing all the repairs?
Why can't anyone see that the problem guys have ruined it for the good guys? How do I know how to distinguish the good guys from the bad guys? Is there a website or hunter review page that will let me know if he is a good person to let on my place and will not cause any damage or will show up in the heat to help fix fence, dig cows out of the mud, or put up hay?
What about when someone acosts you at YOUR gate because you gave a buddy of his permission to hunt your place but you would not give him permission? I mean calling you names and using the most obscene language while your wife and children in the truck?
Its not what you know, its who.
tpwd website
I find it hard to believe that hunters couldn't eradicate hogs if given the chance. The same was once thought about the American Bison, flocks of migratory birds, and our ocean fisheries. If a landowner wants hogs off their property, you gotta kill 'em.
Maybe Texas should adopt some better programs that benefit both hunters and landowners. Check this link out for one such program in PA.
http://www.portal.state.pa.us/portal/server.pt?open=514&objID=620379&mode=2
This program also limits the liability of the landowner for hunters on their property.
Honestly, I have never heard of a specific case where a landowner was successfully sued because of a hunting accident on their property. Maybe there are cases, but I don't know about them. Not only have people become lawsuit happy in this country, but people have also become so paranoid about being sued that we trust no one - even our fellow hunters which are by and large still the best and most trustworthy people in this country.
Hog hunting = money. What's so hard to understand.
does charging for hunting stop the hunters that are irresponsible ? I don't believe so,
Charging pays for: chainsaw,fuel,oil,t post,wire,seed,fuel for tractor,combine,truck haul crops,water,hay,fertilizer,taxes,license for vehicles,insurance for vehicles,etc etc etc. This could go on and on and at a time when alot of folks are having to sell stock cheap and when it comes time to restock the prices are much higher. No rain = no grazing and no crops. Not complaining but when income is lost a family has to go with what makes them a living. All this said and we do not lease for any type of hunting on our land, is there any thing wrong with leasing NO. :thumbsup:
QuoteOriginally posted by jsweka:
I find it hard to believe that hunters couldn't eradicate hogs if given the chance. The same was once thought about the American Bison, flocks of migratory birds, and our ocean fisheries. If a landowner wants hogs off their property, you gotta kill 'em.
Maybe Texas should adopt some better programs that benefit both hunters and landowners. Check this link out for one such program in PA.
http://www.portal.state.pa.us/portal/server.pt?open=514&objID=620379&mode=2
This program also limits the liability of the landowner for hunters on their property.
Honestly, I have never heard of a specific case where a landowner was successfully sued because of a hunting accident on their property. Maybe there are cases, but I don't know about them. Not only have people become lawsuit happy in this country, but people have also become so paranoid about being sued that we trust no one - even our fellow hunters which are by and large still the best and most trustworthy people in this country.
Humans do a poor job controlling rats, roaches, coyotes, and mosquitos. A hog is just a bigger version....albeit one that's fun to shoot at. Hunting isn't going to solve the problem, though. Not a chance.
In My area back in the 60s there was a real problem with hogs. Enter God and hog collora and problem solved in a year. They are just now in the past ten years coming back.
QuoteOriginally posted by trubltrubl:
does charging for hunting stop the hunters that are irresponsible ? I don't believe so,
No, but it sure helps cover the damage done by those bad ones!
Maybe you can get some free bows to with your free hunt to "help" eradicate all these terrible hogs. Doing your civic duty. Well good luck with that. Nothing is free. Landowners will charge because they can charge. And many people gladly pay. Money talks!
CJ,
Try trading a hunt... We have friends in Colorado that hog hunt with us every year that works for both parties, they take us elk hunting.
I would be very grateful if somebody could explain the government aid to me, that's almost funny!!!
Hogs are very destructive but so are people with bad manners. Like mentioned, it's very hard to tell who is going to respect your place by an email or phone conversation. It is always easier in the long run to just say no to a hunter, bird watcher, 4 wheeler, sight seer, the headaches are not worth the aggravation or a $100 a day. It is bad enough the drive through the ranch and find beer cans littering the place up but it is even worse to find a gate open. When the cows get out due to a gate being left open it is usually no big deal unless they get on the road and get hit by a car or causes a wreck and someone gets hurt, after all it only takes a couple hours out of your day to get the cows put up. Now when a horse gets out now that's a different story; a good horse looses it's mind when it goes through a open gate and smells freedom. And once again the target practice thing, I start mowing a pasture and the my tractor starts getting hot only to find a bullet hole in the radiator. The excuses for the foul ups are always great but still not worth the headaches. Man the list goes on and on.
I don't like to pay for a hunt anymore than the next fellow. I have had very little success with day leasing, not to say that they're all bad. I will say that if you find a good day lease for $100, that's a bargain. Good luck with your hunt for a hog hunt!!!
Looks like you live where there are mule deer and antelope in your hay fields. If you offered to trade a hunt with a Texan you might have good luck. Do the ranchers in your area allow out-of-state strangers to hunt for free on their property? Do you?
Bow hunters do not "eradicate" hogs. We chase them around and kill a few. This is not a help to the rancher.
I have paid to hunt feral hogs in Texas for many years and found the fees reasonable and the hunting good.
Those of you not understanding the concept about being charged to hunt private land, maybe try thinking about it like this:
Would you, as a homeowner; allow a perfect stranger to come on in, rummage through the fridge, kick back on the couch and start channel surfing because he's "entitled"?
Is that how it should be? You're expecting a rancher to do that very thing, and I doubt seriously any of you would consider the above scenario.
Hunting in Texas is not like anywhere else.
Yes, there are a lot of pigs. Comprehending the vastness of Texas, however, is difficult (even for a Texan). There are approximately 172,044,800 acres in the whole state. That's a whole lot of area for the pigs to spread out in.
As for public land: There are 895,045 acres for you to traipse around on. This does not include any national forest land, just state. About ½ of 1 percent of the state is public access. Pretty much everything else is privately owned. Some of these ranches have been in the family since about the time of the Texas revolution, and they are a part of the family heritage.
Pigs are nomadic. I have been watching and hunting pigs since the mid 90's, and this is what I have observed. Some will argue otherwise, but in my experience, they are always on the move. The same sounder may stick around for a few days or even weeks, but eventually they move on, and another group will cruise through (or push the others off). You may see the same sounder come back through as soon as a few weeks, or even months later. You may never see that same sounder again.
What you saw yesterday, won't necessarily be what you see tomorrow. Just when you think you have them patterned, they'll change. I've spent a lot of hours (day and night) sitting on stand waiting on a pig to show because "they always come in at x time".
Those of you voicing concerns about licensing:
Texas requires all hunters to be licensed, and to pass a hunter safety course. License fees are reasonable, even for out of state hunters. All license fees go to TPWD where they can be used for law enforcement, land preservation, and education programs. They are not entered into some public slush fund to be dispersed irresponsibly by a wingding politician. Texas is very serious about that.
QuoteOriginally posted by Gummi Bear:
Those of you not understanding the concept about being charged to hunt private land, maybe try thinking about it like this:
Would you, as a homeowner; allow a perfect stranger to come on in, rummage through the fridge, kick back on the couch and start channel surfing because he's "entitled"?
Is that how it should be? You're expecting a rancher to do that very thing, and I doubt seriously any of you would consider the above scenario.
Hunting in Texas is not like anywhere else.
Yes, there are a lot of pigs. Comprehending the vastness of Texas, however, is difficult (even for a Texan). There are approximately 172,044,800 acres in the whole state. That's a whole lot of area for the pigs to spread out in.
As for public land: There are 895,045 acres for you to traipse around on. This does not include any national forest land, just state. About ½ of 1 percent of the state is public access. Pretty much everything else is privately owned. Some of these ranches have been in the family since about the time of the Texas revolution, and they are a part of the family heritage.
Pigs are nomadic. I have been watching and hunting pigs since the mid 90's, and this is what I have observed. Some will argue otherwise, but in my experience, they are always on the move. The same sounder may stick around for a few days or even weeks, but eventually they move on, and another group will cruise through (or push the others off). You may see the same sounder come back through as soon as a few weeks, or even months later. You may never see that same sounder again.
What you saw yesterday, won't necessarily be what you see tomorrow. Just when you think you have them patterned, they'll change. I've spent a lot of hours (day and night) sitting on stand waiting on a pig to show because "they always come in at x time".
Those of you voicing concerns about licensing:
Texas requires all hunters to be licensed, and to pass a hunter safety course. License fees are reasonable, even for out of state hunters. All license fees go to TPWD where they can be used for law enforcement, land preservation, and education programs. They are not entered into some public slush fund to be dispersed irresponsibly by a wingding politician. Texas is very serious about that.
That's the best "first" post I've seen. Well said.
I read a statistic a while back, that said for every hog killed in Texas there are 1400 more being born.
Rick
I'm thinking tough economic times are ahead, gas prices especially, and a lot of people won't have the money to drive to Texas to hunt hogs. The hog problem will really start to blossom when no one is there to hunt them.
5 or 6 dollar fuel, food and lodging and tresspass fees can really add up.
A friend of mine saw a guy trespassing/hunting on our lease.The nut ran when he approached him. My buddy knew the guy lived on an adjacent property so my friend jumped in his truck, raced over there, and started wandering around the guy's yard.
The trespasser asked "what the *&#@ are you doing"? My friend responded, "oh nothing, just checking this place out, just like what you were just doing on our lease!Any other questions?"
There weren't any.
Where I hunt in Florida, pigs will stick around if the food supply is constant and they have water.
I don't blame any landowner for charging a fee to hunt.
Just thinking about something. Wouldn't the ones that pay for the privilege to hunt be more likely to leave a mess and tear up jack? After all, they are PAYING money to be there and would think that the money they paid would take care of anything they do. Just like a rental car, they have no reason to care for it, they are paying for the "right" to treat it any way they want. The rental car company can take care of anything they may do with the car whether it be spill a BIG GULP in the passenger seat or drive the car with mud on their feet. The car company will clean it all up, I paid them to do it.
Just thinking out loud.
Nalajr
When I was in Florida I tried for a couple of years to find a place to hunt. I asked every person I met whether they knew of any place. When I ran across a shooter or fisherman I would ask, I ALWAYS got the same answers, either they didn't know any place or pay for a lease.
I joined a Florida hunting forum and asked about it and ran into probably the rudest bunch of hunters I have ever seen. Didn't have a single person say "hey I'll help you find a place" or give me a call and I'll tell you what I know." NOT ONE. Plenty of places wanting up to $300 per day to hunt though.
I never did go hunting in Florida. I hope it doesn't end up being the same way in Texas. I'm not getting my hopes up though. I'd love to try and pig hunt, I've never done it before, but I don't have the pockets to pay $750 for a 3 or 4 day weekend of hunting. I suspect I'm not alone, at least I hope I'm not.
I have been contacted by one guy here (months ago) that is willing to help me on public land hunts and I'm grateful for that. If that's all I end up having available to me, then that's the way it is. If I don't get any other leads, I'll simply just shoot at a foam target from now on and abandon the thoughts of hunting.
I fear that's what it's coming to anyway. Less and less hunters and even lower numbers of hunters that have the spare money to be able to pay a car payment for a weekend of hunting. It won't be long till there will be threads talking about the "good ole days" where hunting was a way of life and a past time for everybody. Now it is on the verge of being only for people of means that can pay LARGE SUMS for the pleasure.
Nalajr
Nala -
The public land permit is $48 on top of your license fee.
I recommend downloading and reading this book cover to cover:
http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/huntwild/hunt/public/lands/table_contents/media/pwd_bk_w7000_0112a.pdf <-- this is a 48 meg file, it's gonna take a minute to load the page
It outlines what can be hunted, when and where.
There are also maps of the areas, and now with the addition of Google Earth and Bing Earth, you can get a pretty good feel for the area before heading out.
As for day leases, I've not hunted them very much. I've seen day leases go from $75 on up to $400 per day for hog hunting. There are plenty of ranches offering package deals with an exotic and a couple of hogs for a reasonable rate as well.
I've always had family land and/or a year round lease. I've also traded hunts and done labor swaps in exchange for hunting privileges: I'm an electrician by trade, so I've wired a few barns and camp shacks; I've also built a lot of fence, hauled stock, run tractor, done some welding, car repair, pulled weeds and other things in exchange. The barter system is alive and well.
Hope this helps!
I have heard of a couple of people in Iowa that are getting paid to get rid of hogs on farmers land. I wish I knew who those farmers were, they could pay us to do the same. Just kidding, I am sure we would do it for free.
Feral Hogs
Feral hogs are trying to gain a foothold in
certain parts of Iowa. They use heavy cover, are
difficult to find and even more difficult to hunt.
Hunters are encouraged to watch for feral hogs
while out hunting other species and to kill them
on sight. It is legal to kill feral hogs on your own
property and on public lands where hunting is
allowed. Trespassing on private land to shoot a
feral hog is not allowed.
Feral hogs are not native to Iowa and no
permit is needed to take a feral hog.
Feral hogs are aggressive and prone to attack.
They spread diseases to humans, pets and
domestic animals. These animals damage crops
and forest lands which contributes to soil erosion
and siltation. They also compete with native
wildlife for food. They eat anything they can
catch including reptiles, amphibians, deer fawns,
bird eggs and newly born livestock.
If you should happen to kill a feral hog,
contact the local wildlife biologist (see p. 45).
The DNR would like to collect a blood sample.
I know I'm beating a dead horse here :deadhorse: But I've read all of the responses to this thread and there are a number of arguments concerning conservation. This has nothing to do with conservation. This is about income.
Ground Hunter,
They don't want to hear that people have a right to charge for hunting on their land. The pig situation is bad in places and the ranchers have turned lemons into lemonaid. If you don't want to pay the price don't look to hunt pigs here.
Mike
Paying to lease hunting rights, grazing rights, drilling rights, water rights, etc. have been a part of the Texas Rancher's income for decades. These are the rights of private property ownership here in the State of Texas.
Year after year the market has born out that folks will pay good money for the privilege to hunt on a man's land. That's the way it is, and as Texan's we accept that fact, just because we're talking about hogs doesn't mean a man should throw open his gates to all comers like they're doing him a favor. Free market economics at work here.....and our economy's not doing too bad.
The way I see it, let Texans pay other Texans to hunt and then when there is a mess they can blame Texans.
I do know that the hogs have gotten onto some golf courses down there. What a mess.
I do have one question about deer. Do the land owners own the deer or do the deer belong to the state like here in Michigan, excluding license deer farms in Michigan?
Having spent portions of the last 10 winters in Texas I find it interesting that legally I am not to pick up rocks off the river bed for flintknapping and have been warned from doing so. It is also illegal to stop and cut antlers off a roadkill deer?
I guess when you live in a state that allows you to do both its kind of hard to understand the reasoning behind their thinking.
I guess the problem with the first assumption is that bow hunting controlls hogs. I killed over 50 off of one of my farms in one year with a rifle when I counted, and it seemed to make no effect on the population. The only thing that helped is that my neighbor clear cut his place and made it into pasture land and the hogs no longer had a bedding area as close.
As they say - Don't mess with Texas!
say while we're on the subject.. I was thinking of a quick trip to TX for hogs. My long bow needs exercise. any suggestions..
The state own the deer, so I ask if I could get paid from the state for grazing their deer on my property :knothead: nope! You are not suppose to touch deer on the side of the rode here in Texas, I would definitely call tpwl and ask before I did.
Texas sounds more like Europe than the USA.
Aside from the state lands and WMUs in New York and other eatern states, farmers seem to be more receptive to hunting permission requests if you are far enough from metroplitan areas. How do you explain this given the wide "open"spaces of Texas? I do not know anything about hunting in Texas except what I have read., but it seems to be a consistent theme.
Del Savio 99% of Texas land is privately owned. I live in those wide open spaces you mention. As far as you can see - private land. All - private land. Land tamed not by force of arms. Land tamed by 2 strand barbed wire laid by fathers for their sons.
I'm a landowner from Texas and find this entertaining to say the least. If you don't like the way things are done in this state, and don't want to pay to hunt hogs...Then don't do it. Texas is not the only place to hunt hogs. I would love to hunt big game in other states, but just can't justify the expenses associated with it. I'm not going to complain about what they charge for licenses, guide fees, and drawings associated with those hunts. I accept it for what it is.
I also agree that hunters, especially bow hunters are not going to be of any realistic help to us landowners. They will just educate hogs and make them more nocturnal. Anytime you see or hear of hogs being consistantly killed by bowhunters, I would bet the place is high fenced and the hogs are killed at feeders. That opens up another Texas debate.
QuoteOriginally posted by Del Savio:
Texas sounds more like Europe than the USA.
Aside from the state lands and WMUs in New York and other eatern states, farmers seem to be more receptive to hunting permission requests if you are far enough from metroplitan areas. How do you explain this given the wide "open"spaces of Texas? I do not know anything about hunting in Texas except what I have read., but it seems to be a consistent theme.
Coming from NY....ah, the irony.
Look, not one Texas person has bashed any other person or their state in response to this debate. Saying hunting in Texas is becoming like Europe....lets just slow down there. If you want to see European ideaology or dictatorship, I can think of a few other states than Texas where that is more prevalent (well, except for Austin, but its only one town in this whole state:))
Lets just leave it as it is, which is Texas does things differently when it comes to land ownership and hunting. Its no different than any other state. I would love o hunt elk in Az. You don't find me knocking the draw system and having to be lucky in getting a tag. Its just the way Arizona does it. My complaining about it on the internet is not going to change anyones opinions nor is it going to make the AZ Fish and game department change theri ways.
QuoteOriginally posted by Jon Stewart:
[QB] The way I see it, let Texans pay other Texans to hunt and then when there is a mess they can blame Texans.
Already happens, everyday and year
:campfire:
hell, lets all pich in a couple hudred bucks and get a tradgang lease, and we all can take turns hunting the place.......sorry, i was just thinkin outloud......but really we are 36000+ strong. thats a lota dough!!
QuoteOriginally posted by arrow30:
hell, lets all pich in a couple hudred bucks and get a tradgang lease, and we all can take turns hunting the place.......sorry, i was just thinkin outloud......but really we are 36000+ strong. thats a lota dough!!
Oh, the headache that would be!!!!!!!
Ill never get over how any man can fault another over wanting to be compensated for the use of his land that his blood, sweat and tears pays for. It is truly no different than if a stranger approached you and asked to use your backyard for their family reunion cause they thought it was a nice place. Oh dont worry they,ll help you by taking all of the dandelions out of your grass before they leave.
If you are ever offered an opportunity to hunt private land for free consider yourself lucky and the landowner as a friend.
There really is a lot more to it than many of us consider. Even with signing a liability waiver there are still plenty of worries as many people have been sued after their guests have signed one.
The farmer that owns some of the land we hunt has had many chances to take money from those that want his farm all to them selves. The problem that he sees is that he looses control of controlling run away deer numbers on his land. Reducing hunters access by going to a lease or pay only system when game numbers are running out of control is not game management, especially with the threat of booming pig populations. While pig shooting down south may be fun, up here in Iowa, it would be an environmental disaster. The exclusive right to hunt private property would take on a different feel if the land was overrun with hogs that you had all to yourself.
Well lets talk about Texas manners. It is considered rude by most to ask someone for something like that when you have just met. Typically you have to be invited. That may seem like no difference but it is leagues apart. I have never asked to hunt a nother guys land but I have been invited. Kinda like the US we invited all of yall to be a country with us. :goldtooth:
Chris,
Ok, that was funny
I personally have no problem with the practices and customs of land use in the various states. We have a 400 acre family farm which is posted and restrict hunting to close family friends and some local people who ask. My previous comments only took note that an abundance of land does not mean more readily given access. No judgment here . Lou
QuoteOriginally posted by ChrisM:
Kinda like the US we invited all of yall to be a country with us. :goldtooth:
Thats a good 'un right there ChrisM.
Seriously, it is what it is and as long as there is a way for a farmer to make money, if you can call it making money, then they will charge people to hunt their land. I would venture to say that in soem areas of the state, say South Texas, most ranchers make more money leasing their land than they do off their ag operations.
I gues growing up here and having always been on a lease it just doesn't bother me a whole lot.
And like most Texans, I sure a as h e double hockey sticks dont want anyone telling me how I should treat my land or what should do with it.
Hopefullly I didn't ruffle any feathers and if I did let me know and I will apologize.
capitalism at its best. they have a product that someone else wants and a fair free market fee is charged and collected and every one wins...
There really is a lot more to it than many of us consider. Even with signing a liability waiver there are still plenty of worries as many people have been sued after their guests have signed one.
This is where Izzy hit the nail on the head
On the topic of helicopter management...
Landowners are offsetting the costs associated with the practice by selling the rights to be a "gunner" on the helicopter. I got an email the other day offering the opportunity to pay $850 to be a "gunner" for the day...
Which do you think is more attractive as a management tool to a landowner? A "gunner" who will offset the cost of a helicopter and shoot dozens of pigs or a bowhunter who might kill a couple of pigs over a weekend if things work out right?
When pigs fly.
Yaawwl forgetin things is bigger and better in Texas than everywhere else! Specially the hogs :cool:
As far as I'm concerned, hog hunting is Texas is one of North America's cheapest and finest adventures for a trad bow hunter. I don't imagine life as a rancher/farmer in Texas is all that easy given the lack of moisture and fertile ground (oil farmers & ranchers excluded). Can't blame anyone for capitalizing on an opportunity - you and I would do exact same in their position.
So, if there is no hogs in your part of the world, head south with a few friends and alot of arras and contribute to the economy and have more fun for your $$$ than you will in most places.
"Hey cj. How goes it?"
Hey Rick. Didn't see your post bro. Your right it is about money. Maybe in thier position I would be the same way. I just don't think I would be claiming how much the hogs are hurting me or my land. i would just say "Hey boys, I got some hogs. Pay this and shoot them up."
"CJ- if u were turned loose along with 1000 of your closest friends armed with machine guns for 365 straight days dawn to dark there would be around the same number of hogs in TX at the end of that year as there were when you started- you'd barely be able to keep the population static.
I agree it's counterintuitive given conditions but when was the last time you said to yourself "you know I really am impressed by the level of logic displayed by the average American these days""
Hey Ray. I don't know. I havent hunted with the rifle dudes in 20 years. All my land is in horse grass and of course no hogs.
I believe you when you say we couldn't even dent them. Well sort of. I do own a rifle and its an AR with a 2nd gen night scope with an ACC supressor on it. If I was going to thin them out it would be with that at night.
I wasn't really complaining. Except that I want them to deduct the income from the crop damage insureance they make claims on. One or the other or a reconcilled payment using both. By letting hunters handle it, it would cut down on the incurance subsistance paid out.
I don't know if any of you watched it but there was a show on discovery or history channel a couple of years ago that went through what would happen if humans became extinct suddenly. There was a huge emphesis put on what game would dominate. It was the swine. Biologists have already come to the conclusion that hogs would rule the land as a primary animal. In fact they can use a pig valve to fix your heart. We are closer genetically to the swine than a monkey.
Like coyotes, hogs are here to stay so I say lets wack some pigs.
"I would gladly sign a waiver of liability too."
Thats what I do. Colorado allows night hunting for varmints. I've been working here in alaska for 14 months so I haven't done much of it since. My son and I use use supressed ARs with night scopes. Sometimes you can take three yotes before they even catch on. A waiver is no problem for me.
"I dont know where folks get the idea tha landowners get subsidies to repair hog damage, it aint so. "
If you have a cash crop and its insured you get paid. If you have pasture or grass its on you. Insurance reports at our Ampride COOP publishes the claims. Texas has the lion share of the claims due to hog damage. So yes, its so.
Just for the record I have not been bashing any Texans or landowners. I might do the same thing in the same situation. I've made a lot of money from Texas the last few years. My horse grass hay sells very well down there. I've invested a lot of my money into my grass. Certified grass takes work. Less than 1% weeds.
"Yaawwl forgetin things is bigger and better in Texas than everywhere else! Specially the hogs"
lol Well just think hunt it...if alaska was cut in half Texas would have to move down to third place.
If you have a cash crop and its insured you get paid.
Yep if you buy your insurance you can get it. It is not just dolled out for free.
No of course not Chris. :) If I was a Texas Farmer...I would insure it knowing full well "the hogs is commin". Its pennies on the dollar. The policy is backed and run by the U.S. Department of Agriculture. It's not like its a State Farm insurance policy. State Farm would never insure a crop. They know better.
QuoteOriginally posted by Ground Hunter:
Del Savio 99% of Texas land is privately owned. I live in those wide open spaces you mention. As far as you can see - private land. All - private land. Land tamed not by force of arms. Land tamed by 2 strand barbed wire laid by fathers for their sons.
Hmmm. I'm reading a fascinating book right now on how Texas was very much "tamed by force of arms" from the Comanches who's archery and horsemanship skills took more than 250 years for Spaniards, Mexicans and Texans to overcome. The barbed wire came later.
Oh, and humans are not more closely related to pigs than monkeys..... It's just that the pigs heart is the right size and readily available. Even Dick Cheney would have a hard time getting his hands on a gorilla heart!