I've been thinking about getting another longbow, identical to the one I shoot (and love) now, but 10# heavier.. The weight isn't a problem... the issue is the $$$ cost.
I have really taken to shooting my BW longbow, 48# at 31". (I am actually drawing about 30.5", so I may be losing a pound or so.) I've shot a lot of heavier bows, but have come to love shooting this lighter one. Tonight I accidentally shot a Wensel Woodsman almost all the way through two sheets of 1/2" plywood screwed together, so it's no slouch.
So, taking my longer draw into account, and considering the added power, just what would I be gaining to get an identical, but heavier bow, 58# @ 31? It is likely that I will someday be hunting elk, moose, and caribou with it. I really want someone to convince me that a heavier bow would give me more power... but that I don't need it because I've got enough already.
I think you have enough, draw length trumps draw weight, BUT you never have too much power. I pull about the same length as you and my bow hits right about 60lbs at my draw length, my buddy that owns the trad shop said it will go through a moose longways. I like that!
If you want to go up in poundage I would just go 5 pounds at your draw. That would put you over 50# and you can hunt anything on the planet with that weight! And you will most likely get used to it real quick!! Good luck in your quest! :thumbsup:
48@31 is a powerhouse! Nothing you will encounter in NA including Buffalo will survive a well placed arrow.
So 'need' no; 'want' why not!
you only live once. I say get the bow. You will have more power, especially at your draw, and you never know when you'll need some extra pop like if you hit a rib or a thicker part of the shoulder blade. 58@30.5 with a good heavy arrow will blow thru some critters at reasonable ranges.
Like others have said, The weight you are shooting will kill any animal. With that being said, I myself hunt with a 63 pound bow because i like to shoot heavy arrows with authority. if you can handle the weight I say go for it..
If you do any regular physical training now, you will have no problems going up in weight. Since you stated you were going to possibly hunt elk, I would start my physical training now for the fall season. It's never too early to get strong and in shape. Good Luck.
If you CAN shoot more weight, I believe anyone should. We do not hunt haybales. We hunt muscle, tendon, bone and hair. Not in that order at any given time. Animals move, targets dont. You NEVER know when a good shot will go bad due to animal movement.
NEVER give up accuracy for more weight however. For example, If you shoot 45# better than 55#, then stay. If you can shoot 55# just as good, absolutely shoot heavier for hunting.
The issue really isn't weight. I have a 67# longbow that I work out with daily, drawing with both hands for muscle balance.
There's just something that I have grown attached to about the BW longbow that I really connect with, and it's what I want to hunt with. But I don't want to spend a pile of $$ for more power if it's going to be unnecessary.
Archie
5 lbs of draw weight does not add that much speed to your bow, nor does 10 lbs. While it helps and does increase penetration using the same arrow weight you have now. I would go ahead and get a 5 lb heavier bow and increase your arrow weight accordingly. The extra arrow mass will give you the increased penetration you are looking for. Particularly if you want to hunt moose or elk. Both are very tough when hit wrong. Put one in the boiler room and 40 lbs will kill them.
I say jump up 5 lbs and go for it with the heavier bow.
Thanks, YORNOC... I pretty much agree with that.
The way I see it, there's little that my current bow won't do. But there will be a few shots that I will take over the coming years (I hope!) that call for more. My dilemma is... is it worth it to spend $1,000+ for those few shots? Could be $100 per shot, depending on how many shots I'm going to take at bigger, denser animals or poor shot placement (bones).
Optimizing the over-all arrow design will likely provide you far more than a moderate draw wt in crease. A 10# draw wt. increase is not moderate, however an optimized arrow should quell any concerns.
QuoteOriginally posted by YORNOC:
NEVER give up accuracy for more weight however. For example, If you shoot 45# better than 55#, then stay. If you can shoot 55# just as good, absolutely shoot heavier for hunting.
I enjoy shooting the lighter bows, but I shoot 60-65# more accurately for some reason. I suspect I concentrate better and get off the string a bit more cleanly. Above 70# and my form suffers. My 50# bows, though, do not cause me any qualms when I find myself hunting with them.
A decision only you can make. Sounds like you really want to, and if you are that close to the edge...we'll be glad to give you a little shove.
If YOU don't feel confident enough in your equipment that any humane shot will get the job done on whatever animal your hunting then spend the money and buy a heaver Black Widow.
Agree with the accuracy point. In line with that if you can go up in weight you could get a little flatter arrow trajectory for adding a few more yards to your shooting. I practice out to 35-40 yards for Elk. My bow shoots pretty flat to 30-35 so not to much arrow drop to think about. Good Luck!
QuoteOriginally posted by YORNOC:
If you CAN shoot more weight, I believe anyone should. We do not hunt haybales. We hunt muscle, tendon, bone and hair. Not in that order at any given time. Animals move, targets dont. You NEVER know when a good shot will go bad due to animal movement.
NEVER give up accuracy for more weight however. For example, If you shoot 45# better than 55#, then stay. If you can shoot 55# just as good, absolutely shoot heavier for hunting.
This is dead on the money here... great post! :clapper: :clapper:
The time will come later on in life when you'll have to start lowering your draw weight so you don't hurt yourself. until that day comes... go for it!
Personally I don`t have money to spend on a lot of stuff that already working. I recently ordered a new bow that is the same weight as my other for a back-up and because my Wife let me..lol.
Less weight at an early age will save shoulders and keep shooting enjoyable. You can kill most anything with what you have.
10 lbs is a lot. Working out with a heavy bow and shooting one and actually hitting as good as you do with your bow of less pounds is two different things.
If you love your Widow and you just had to have one heavier I would order one just like it only 5 lbs up.RC
Why not used? You can get into a 5 year old PL for $550 to $600 easy.
Also, there are so many Black Widows out there, a little patience and WTB adds here at Tradgang, you hardly ever have to sacrifice length, weight, or color options. Someone always has "your bow" you are looking for sitting on a bow rack. It just takes someone asking to buy one and all of a sudden, $600 sounds much better than the longbow that collects dust on their rack.
I say buy a used longbow, in the exact specs you need. Someone on here has one for you.
I have two bows, one 48# and one 58# at my draw. I enjoy them both. Mostly, I plan on sticking wiht the 48# because it's 66" and shoots very sweetly. Still, I'm not turning lose my 58#. And, if I go Elk hunting, I'd likely take that.
There's a lot of talk about arrow design but, frankly, there's more potential energy in my 58# bow when I'm at full draw than my 48#. Arrow design is interesting, but one can only increase efficiency (and the effective use of that potential energy) so much.
All that said, make up your own mind and enjoy yourself.
Well let me ask this question. If you could really control and shoot well, a heavier bow, say 70#s, would you hunt it or your 48 pound bow?
I'll be 58 years old next month. I'm shooting 80#s right now - quite well. Do I need to shoot 80#s? No. Will I stop? Only if I have too.
Groundhunter,
I'd shoot a heavier bow, no question. If it weren't for the cost factor, the only limiting factor would be the health of my shoulders. I already have a 60# recurve that I shoot whenever I want, with no problems or lack of control.
Archie, I think you have answered your own question. Use your head and work up slowly, its not a race. There are a number of threads on this site where folks talk about how they gained bow weight. Go slow. No brain - No gain. Used bows are a good option. But, hunt only - ONLY - when you are ready with the bow. Good luck, I think you will do well.
If money is the issue, then don't order a new bow. Your set up is plenty enough. Times are a changing and you might be surprised that you might really need a lighter bow. I know I seem to be going that way.
Maybe you should try making a self bow. Good luck.
I wouldn't change a thing, if I were you. 48@31" with any modern longbow is enough juice to hunt moose.
A wiser man once said "Penetration into the ground behind the animal is wasted effort.".
You have a long draw, and that long power stroke can trump a shorter draw with more weight. A bow that fits right and feels right is a blessing -- and it sounds like that is exactly what you have right now. The curiosity and thrill of getting a new bow is pretty hard to beat, but a bow that is "just right" is far more important. With your long draw length you get great performance. If it were me, I would love to try a new bow, but I would probably know that I have a winner already -- and I would resist the temptation.
But that's me.
Technically speaking (this is conjecture, not fact and i am no expert) any bow of the same make pulled to the same draw shooting the same gpp arrow (48#=480 grns, 58#=580grns) should shoot the same trajectory (arrow speed will most likely be the same) with similiar bow noise and feel. The only gain I can think of would be an increase in kinetic energy and better penetrating capabilies at longer ranges. Using my comepletely made up theory I used an online KE calculator to assume that your are now shooting 10gpp arrows(480gr) at 180fps-the KE for this setup would be 34.54. Your new bow will shoot a 580gr arrow at the same 180 fps with KE being 41.74. (a 20% gain in weight and KE) If your bow happens to be FAST and it shoots these arrows at 195fps the KE goes from 40.5 to 48 which is only a 19% gain in KE for the 20% gain in weight. As most experts will tell you a KE of 25 is needed to kill deer with at least 40 recommended for elk and larger game; however I'm certain testimonies can be given of dead animals with much less KE. I'm sure you are all just as confused as I am right now.
So to answer your question Archie-I think the only things you would gain would be a tiny bit of regret and a lighter wallet....all of which I try to avoid.
Remember that a 48@31 bow is going to sling an arrow as fast as a 60@28 bow shooting the same weight arrow. You have more than enough power for any elk, moose, hog, or black bear. A lower weight wil be a lot easier on you, especially if you have to draw after sitting in the cold for a while, or need to hold at full draw for any length of time.
For what is worth I am trying to work my way up.I don't know why but shooting a lighter bow after you you work your way up a little, seems like you are handling a kids toy(not that a 45 pound bow is a toy,but you know what I mean)
If I was looking at this same dilema , I would go heavier on my arrow set up not bow set up. As said before optimize your arrow and you will gain far more then if you increase bow weight. This is all just mu opinion of course. Drew
If I remember right, I'm shooting about 650 grain arrows. (I've been fiddling with my arrow set-up a bit.) I've never chrono'd a bow, so don't know what kind of speed I'm getting.
I really do have a fantastic bow already. Not only is it as smooth as butter to shoot and shoot and shoot, but it is (in my opinion) the prettiest Black Widow longbow I've ever seen. If she were 53#, I wouldn't be asking this question; she would be the ONE.
AAHH but if she was 53 she might not be the one either . I have a long draw like you and shoot low 40's bows which get about the same as you are getting. I have complete faith in my set up and know it will get the job done.The arrows I have just set up for hogs are 850 gr and shoot about 140 fps but the fly great and are acurate . They hit like a ton of bricks and sail right through animals.
I believe that what you have now will do the trick......but.......I also believe that a person should hunt with the most draw weight that they can shoot accurately with. The extra umph is bound to help with bad shots on big bone, etc.
Bisch
QuoteOriginally posted by Bisch:
I believe that what you have now will do the trick......but.......I also believe that a person should hunt with the most draw weight that they can shoot accurately with. The extra umph is bound to help with bad shots on big bone, etc.
Bisch
Well said.
Archie,
Your getting plenty of knowledgeable responses, but the one thing I haven't seen mentioned is that some states have a minimum draw weight requirement for different large game animals. Alaska has a 50lb minimum draw weight on Moose. I believe 45lb on boo, black bear and deer. Just another variable for your equation.
~CB
Wow, Chromebuck... I guess I didn't realize that! I lived in Fairbanks for over 20 years, and even as a teen didn't hunt with a bow less than 50 pounds, so this was a moot point back then, and the rule never stuck in my mind. Ha! You'd think I would have known that...
QuoteOriginally posted by looper:
Remember that a 48@31 bow is going to sling an arrow as fast as a 60@28 bow shooting the same weight arrow. You have more than enough power for any elk, moose, hog, or black bear. A lower weight wil be a lot easier on you, especially if you have to draw after sitting in the cold for a while, or need to hold at full draw for any length of time.
Looper, is there a formula used to make that calculation? I'd be curious to run some numbers on my draw length and poundage to compare with a 28in draw.
I have really enjoyed the responses posted on this thread. A lot of guys have wisely pointed out that you don't necessarily need a heavier bow. I understand the idea of wanting a heavier bow if you are going to get an appropriate performance return. It seems that you already are squared away on the need and methodology of training up carefully for a heavier bow.The suggestion that you look for a used bow of the type you are already shooting make sense since cost is a prominent factor. You have a fun dilemma, because you won't be making a mistake, whichever choice you decide on. I look forward to hearing which way you go on this.
As one who is on the downward slide of weight, almost any bow will bring home the bacon on a good hit. The heavier bow will blow through some marginal hit that the lighter bow will bounce off. Pending your age & health, you can always come back to the lighter bow...but you ain't going back up later in life :) tippit
QuoteOriginally posted by GrayRhino:
QuoteOriginally posted by looper:
Remember that a 48@31 bow is going to sling an arrow as fast as a 60@28 bow shooting the same weight arrow. You have more than enough power for any elk, moose, hog, or black bear. A lower weight wil be a lot easier on you, especially if you have to draw after sitting in the cold for a while, or need to hold at full draw for any length of time.
Looper, is there a formula used to make that calculation? I'd be curious to run some numbers on my draw length and poundage to compare with a 28in draw. [/b]
Here is a link to a thread where this was recently discussed: http://tradgang.com/noncgi/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=112585;p=1 . Look specifically at John Havard's posts.
I might be a pound or two off up or down when I say that 48@31 will equal 60@28, but I've concluded that a good rule of thumb is to add 4# for every inch over 28" to get an equivalent poundage. So a 50@29 would equal a 54@28, a 50@30 would equal a 58@28, etc.
If you go to the A&H Archery site and look at the bow performance section, you can find a lot of useful information. http://www.acsbows.com/bowperformance.html
A 48# bow at 31 inchs - is still a 48# bow. See the original post.
QuoteOriginally posted by Ground Hunter:
A 48# bow at 31 inchs - is still a 48# bow. See the original post.
thats true but they are refering to the out put of a 31" draw compaired to a 28" draw....48# @ 28" and 48# @ 31" aren't apples to apples...
Since you asked what you will gain....
The answer is a more destructive arrow...either same arrow going faster, or a heavier arrow going the same....or somewhere in between.
Correct Blaino.....the 48#@31 will shoot like a 54#@28.
Thanks for a bunch of great insights.
I've tentatively decided what I'm going to do. I already have a 60# recurve to shoot. I'm going to start shooting it again regularly. That will give me the power I feel I don't have in the longbow. I'll also start squirrelling away some money for a future longbow purchase, around 60#. The 60# longbow should give me a balance of power and control, and the 30.5" draw should give me some 68-70# @ 28" actual power.
The added power may be like having a 4-wheel drive in San Diego, but it's always nice to have it when you need it.