First off I'll say that I've done the search thing and read the good info on quieting BW bows. However I am really getting frustrated in trying to get my 2000 model MAII quiet. It's 46# at 28" and I'm shooting Beman MFX classic 500 arrows at 29" with 200 grs up front, 9" brace height. These arrows shoot great. My BW is noisey even while shooting my heavy cedar arrows. At this point I don't know if it is worth my time to make a dacron string for it or try some insert tubes to get the arrow weight up. I really don't want to shoot a fishing arrow out of this thing. I finally grabbed my 1966 Bear Kodiak just so I could remember what a joy it is to shoot a quiet bow. At this point I'm ready to send it back to Black Widow. It has always been a noisey bow. It may just become a wall-hanger or I may just sell it. HELP!
Have you tried putting some moleskin on the limbs and yarn around the ends of the string? What silencers are you using and whats your arrow weight? Might also be a flaw with the bow. Might also try to go up on the brace height even more. Have you had someone else shoot it while you listened to see how loud it is?
I have to run my brace height between 8 & 8 1/2" on my b/w, also use two sets of beaver ball puffs on the string. Having someone else shoot it while you stand off to the side is a good idea too. I also use dacron strings on mine, I think it's quietere with them.
I used Bow Hush and whoolie wisps on a BW SAV I had,I got comments on how quiet it was.AlsoI had a padded loop 8 strand D97,which I feel helped.
I've got the fuzzy part of some velcro on the string groves. I'm using musk-ox yarn thingys plus some wooly whiskers on the string. I don't really want to take the brace height up anymore than it already is. My next step is to try some 5 gpi weight tubes but I have little hope that this will work. The bow was noisy from day one. I almost sent it back the week it was delivered. I shot the bow quite a bit for a couple of years and then got out of archery until last summer. I may give them a call and see just how good their warranty is. I've been very disappointed in this bow.
Try a brace height between 8 5/8" and 8 7/8 inches. Also Try a different string, BW recomends a D97 string and thats a great material but I tried other strings made from FF plus, 452, 450 etc with padded loops...I never needed any thing more than some wool Hush Puppys to get my BW bows quiet, I can get 3 sets of string silencers from 1 set of the Hush Puppys. This is a pic of some bows i used to own showing the Hush Puppy material on some widow Recurves and one RER bow, I think I used to install it arround 12- 15" from end of string (http://i596.photobucket.com/albums/tt46/Robertfishes/SANY0178-1.jpg)
About the only thing I haven't tried is padding under the limb pockets. I'm getting more of a whack or a crack sound along with a loud string thump when I shoot. I swear my c--pound bow is quieter than this thing.
Ask SBD strings, a Sponsor, what he made for my widow.
I have on of his strings, BowHush and Hush Puppies on my PCH and it is quiet. Randy Burtis heard it in MO...and then after I quieted it in TX and he said he couldn't believe the difference.
send it to me. I'll check it out for you and see if I can figure out whats up. :goldtooth:
For the price I paid for this THING it should be at least as quiet as the 1969 Super K that I bought in a pawn shop for $50. I spend $800 or so dollars on this thing and then have to spend another $200 or $300 just to get it quiet enough to take hunting? Give me a break!
I had a black widow that made this cracking noise everytime I would pull it back. I didnt like this bow at all. didnt take me but a couple of days to get rid of it.
It really is sad. I love this bow and love the way it shoots. I just wish it wasn't so loud. I'll make up a dacron string for it tonight and I guess I'll order some weight tubes to bump up the arrow weight. More money to spend. At this point I'd never buy another Black Widow bow.
My MA is very quiet with the D97, spider silencers and 550 grain arrows. Brace ht. is 8.625. Warranty on a 12 year old bow-good luck with that.
Sounds like it could be a problem unique to that particular bow. Did you buy it used? Did the former owner have the same problem?
I've got two widows that I have no noise issues with.
I bought this bow from the factory brand new. If it didn't have my name on it I would have already gotten rid of it. I may try some of the stick tammers from 3Rs. At this point I'm willing to try anything. If I had the time and money I would drive to BW's shop and tell them to fix it or keep it. It may be time for me to look at some other custom bowyers. Any suggestions for a smooth quiet bow?
Give the Bow Hush and Hush Puppies a try. I had one that was loud and once I installed them it made a huge difference.
As far as the warranty, you said it was 2000 model. I wouldn't expect alot since the bow was made 12 years ago.
I would give them a call and ask for their advice though. They're a great group to deal with.
I have owned / own several widows and they are all quiet. Run my brace height at 8-5/8 and 9.5 grains per pound arrow weight, shoot BW stock strings. I would shoot SBD but they take more time to get than I care to wait, but have tried them.
If you are shooting an old string you my want to change it to a new one, they do wear out. Or if you really want to be sure put an SBD string on it they are super quiet. If its still nosy with the SBD string on it there is something really wrong. If you shoot a tab that may also be worn out.
If your shooting a t/d check the alignment pins they can loosen up. I had that happen and its an easy fix, just super glue them back in and clamp. Also make sure your rubber o rings are good, I would just replace them.
Good luck, I hope you can find the problem because widows are exceptional shooters. Glen
I never really thought my BW was loud until I started shooting longbows. I think in general recurves are louder than longbows, but should not be to the extreme that it seems you are getting.
Try skinny fast flight string, pad string at recurved tips with yarn, and try multiple string silencers if needed.
Could your arrow be hitting the riser and making noise?
The reason I ask is because it seems your arrows would be too stiff for that draw weight bow and that will sometimes cause the tail end of the arrow to hit the riser.
You may also want to take the stuff out of the string grooves you could twist the limbs if they arent already. If BW wanted stuff in the grooves they would include it with all their bows. They also don't recommend putting anything under the limbs, there needs to be some space, that's why they use the o-ring system.
I hope I'm not coming across pushy. That is not my intent , I just really enjoy my bows and what you to be able to do the same.
Glen
Try an SBD string.
doug77
Ross, what is your brace height and nocking point height?
I've had real good results with the sticktamers.
Also consider stik tamers. I have them on mine. The are not the greatest looking things but they do a good job of helping quiet things down a bit and it adds some protection while hanging on my bow holder in the treestand. If you don't like them they are easy to take off. Pretty easy to put on also.
Keep in mind, quiet is subjective...
I've been to trad gatherings hearing guys brag on how quiet their Widow is. When I hear their bow go off, I wonder about how many years they had to have worked in a foundery with no ear protection.
I've never heard a quiet Black Widow. Ever. And I've been around a ton. But...they just weren't quiet by MY standards. The guy shooting them thought they were quiet as a mouse fart.
Everyone thinks their own Widow is the quietest and everyone thinks their own kid is the cutest.
Vanilla Gorilla is correct, a recurve is not as quiet as a hill type bow. They are two very different animals. It really depends what you used to shooting. Sounds are subjective to the listener. Lots of critters fall to widows every year just take a look at the widow wall photo gallery.
If you were a lefty I bet I could find one in my collection to trade you that is quiet......stabow
Be sure to get in touch with Pierre of SBD.
My PCH has absolutley no sound issues.
Note: I tried many different options and she remained far too loud for my taste until I turned to Pierre.
BW's are wonderful bows and sometimes we have to go the extra mile to satisfy I personal requierments.
It is quite likely that you could utilize a 6 strand SBD.
Been there done that. The only solution IMHO is a SBD 8 strand string with Navaho Wool silencers from Centaur Archery. I had a PMA that drove me crazy until I put that combo on it, went from a loud pop to a silent thump. It's all I shoot on all of my bows now and the Widows are now as silent as the rest.
Send it in for BW to fix. They should stand behind it or at least tell you what needs to be done and the cost.
I've quietened a few, and didn't have to go to extremes.
I agree "quiet" is subjective...I shoot primarily longbows and selfbows, so I think I have an idea of "quiet".
The solution I've found is simple. Do the obvious tuning. The best string I've used on one is a 12 strand Dynaflight '97 with the loops padded to 18 with dacron. Pretty simple, and the difference was amazing.
Add a set of cat whiskers, tune them (you can tune the silencers like anything else, by moving them up or down the string), and the bow should easily be hunting quiet. Not longbow or selfbow quiet, but much quieter--no hoops to jump through.
One other thing that some folks don't think about is nock fit. A tight nock can be noisy--very noisy in some cases.
Chad
Before you give up on the bow, see if someone will make you a 12 strand D 10 string with 16 strands in the loops. I was at a shoot the other day and noticed one of the guys shooting a Widow that was very quiet. I mentioned it, and he said it was all in the string and was nice enough to take my name and address and said he would make me a new string for my Widow bow. It came in the mail today with cat wiskers deviding the string in thirds. I can't believe how silent the bow is now.
Try lowering the brace height. I have one that was loud, kept raising the brace height because that is supposed to make recurves shoot quieter but it didn't work. Went lower with the brace height and it got much quieter.
I have been using my vintage Bear recurves as a comparision on how quiet I want my BW to be. I'm going to reglue the limb studs since they were a little loose when I checked and replace the O rings. I'm also going to make a couple of new strings, one FF and another of dacron, and compair the two. To be honest I've been down this same road ten years ago and had no luck. The only "new" thing that I haven't tried is the stick tammers. I also want to aid some weight to my arrows to see if that helps. Thank you guys for all your suggestions and help. To be honest I'll probably just end up getting a new bow. If ya'll can offer any suggestions on a recurve that is both smooth and quiet be sure and let me know. My vintage Bear Kodiak will most likely be my hunting bow this year barring any miracles with the BW. The Kodiak isn't as smooth as the BW but it is whisper quiet even with the "noisy" spring arm quiver.
Once again, Thanks
You guys are great.
Ross
I had the same problem with the psa 11 I bought from black widow, got tired of trying all of the things to make it quiet, sold it, shouldn't have to go through all that with a bow that cost that much.
i'm sure your vintage Bears are shooting dacron, that alone will make a diffrence, I am of the opinion the earlier widows were a little louder than the later ones with the wider limbs, But as mentioned several times try a SBD string they do make a diffrence, My PSA is huntin quiet with a d97 string and tuned properly and I am a quiet freak with a hunting bow. a little brace variation makes a big diffrence, I can tell by sound when a new string has stretched..
I have personally shot at least 8 or 10 black widow recurves ahd have been around many, many others being shot by fellow competitors at 3d shoots. They are practically all noisy and that is just a fact. Black Widow owners are very loyal and mostly rave about how well they shoot. The guys in Nixa, Missouri are doubtless a great bunch as you never hear anything but positives about customer service. That said, they are in a large majority and in a word, noisy!
You said it bluej and that's the truth. I don't mind paying for quality but surely there's a bow out there that is smooth, reasonably fast, and quiet. This ordeal with the BW has gotten ridiculous. I don't mind tweeking my equipment but give me a break.
QuoteOriginally posted by Widow's Son:
The bow was noisy from day one. I almost sent it back the week it was delivered. ... I've been very disappointed in this bow.
What kept you from sending it back if it was that noisy when it was new?
Been shooting a SA 3 widow for 18 years. Never had a deer jump the string. I do wonder about the arrow hitting the the shelf. I also wonder if they are just a bit noisier than you want. I will say that wool yarn on the loops really helped mine.
Dan
I have shot quite a few Widow's and with a good string silencer like Bow hush and hush puppies they were extremely quiet. I would highly recommend using the Bow hush on any recurve with a fast flight string.
Don't ask me. I guess I thought it would get better or I could fix it. I've gotten particular about bow noise in my old age.
Adjust brace height to the higher end of the range in the catalog. Use Yarn wraps on the ends of the strings. The string spiders do fine on both of my Widows. Lastly,install a set of Limbsaver recurve limb silencers on the back of the limbs about 1 inch past the ends of the fadeouts.
I will also tell you a SBD string will go a long way to making that bow quiet as well. I switched out the BW string that came with my bows for a SPD and that alone solved about half the problem.
But raising the brace height is probably most important.
You need to lower your brace height to 7 3/4 and shoot it some then start adding twists a bit at a time. I would put a new string on it and start this process. You could get a string built if you wanted to go that route. I have always been able to adjust the brace height and get it quiet. If you use two sets of silencers spread them out about 4in apart.
An 8 strand D97 will fix your problem.
Sounds to me like you've gotten some great advice and you really don't really want to listen to it.
You've already made up your mind and no matter what you do to the bow, it's not gonna be "quiet enough" for you.
My suggestion....sell the bow...I bet someone else will be real happy with it ;)
QuoteOriginally posted by Guru:
Sounds to me like you've gotten some great advice and you really don't really want to listen to it.
You've already made up your mind and no matter what you do to the bow, it's not gonna be "quiet enough" for you.
My suggestion....sell the bow...I bet someone else will be real happy with it ;) [/QUOT
Bingo
Loose pins? I can't even imagine how that could happen. Have you tried the obvious and talked to BW about it? They may have their faults, but customer service isn't one of them! :)
Keep in mind that with a new string you can get the brace height you want and a quiet bow. Then the string will stretch and you will loose your quiet brace height, perhaps your knocking point and you'll need to add some twists to the string to get it back to the old brace height and reset the knocking point. I've had to do this several times on some bows before the string finally settled down.
I've had several PSA's. Some loud some not.
Experiment with a couple different strings. I went to B-50 and they where dead quiet. I know you loose a couple ft/sec but that is way better than a noisy bow.
Limb Savers worked well on one I had.
I use B-50 on my Bear Take downs too so it's not just a BW thing. Now my Hummingbird is SILENT with FF and no silencers on it and that is nice.
Our LRU D-10 8-strand, padded loop bikini string will take the bite ouuta that spider. I should know since I have a PSA, PCH & PLX.
Plus, we guarantee our strings 100%, offer best prices & free shipping!
One more post and out of here. Sorry if I stepped on anyones toes by blasting BW bows. This bow is noisy and it's not just "my opinion". I have two other bows to compare it to. Guru, if you had read my replies you would see that most of the tweeks I've already tried and the ones I haven't I'm going to. My main complaint is that on a bow this expensive I shouldn't have this much trouble. Swamp Yankee, checking the take-down studs was one gentleman's suggestion and one of them was loose. Oh well, time to basically strip this bow down and start over.
Thanks for all your help. I'll let ya'll know how it comes out.
Ross
How about the operator. No offense intended, but does the bow sound as noisy when someone else shoots it? Could your release have something to do with it?
Over on another site, they have regular BW bashing threads and all sorts of pretenses are used to get them started such as having a "problem" and needing "advice".
I have a 1992 model MAII and have no problems with my bow being "too loud". I use B-50 endless loop strings on my bow and a couple of those puffy wool things---my bow is as quiet as any other brand. Oh, and I shoot 2117 aluminums and have no need of all the fancy weights etc. to make it shoot like it should.
I think you should get rid of the bow since it has been a pain for so long instead of complaining about it.
One more suggestion, try some Limbsavers ( the size made specifically for recurves are smaller and less obtrusive) on the limbs applied on the limbs about an inch below where the string contacts the limb in the string groove. I tried them along with an 8 strand SBD string with padded loops and my recurve is VERY quiet. The Limbsavers also take all vibration out of the bow at the shot which is nice, but not a necessity. ~Steve
Thanks again to everyone for their suggestions and advice. Today I made and installed a 14 strand B-50 string and with the afore mentioned musk-ox wool silencers and the bow is very quiet and with a 7 1/2" brace height. At this point I feel very comfortable hunting with this bow. Hopefully it will remain quiet.
The Black Widow is back!
Ross
One other thing. Don't know if you have antler burr knobs or not, but I have a pair and the epoxy on one was loose it viberates when the bow was shot and made some noise. Didn't feel loose, caused me some irritation untill I found out what was making the noise.
Glad to hear it's working out for you. A quiet widow and sharp broadhead will get the job done!!!
do you have the rubber tip protector on the bow, mine fell off of my widow and it sounded like a shotgun going off without it...put another RUBBER tip protector on the bottom limb....night and day difference!
First off there is something about them that I like, I have owned a pile of them and still own two, but the bottom line is that they are noisy and you'll work overtime to get them nearly but not as quiet as some other bows that need little silencing work at all. The Widow is no longer my go to bow but far from being my last choice as well, I will probably always own at least one but the fact is that they are not as quiet as some other more affordable and faster shooting bows, so work with it and if it works out then great and otherwise cut your losses and move on.
They make and sell a quality product with excellent customer service, but the bow has got to work for you.
8.5" to 9" brace height with bow hush and cat whiskers. That always quieted my Widows. I now also put 6 strand 450+ padded loop strings on all my bows.
Gil
I read where someone above said use a D97. In my expierence that would be the last thing I would do. No such thing as a quiet D97 string.
However, just call pierre at sbd and be done with it. God Bless
AWP, I have had the opposite experience. And never knew a B50 that didnt sound like a banjo string.
i tell ya, Ross, why don't i just give ya a couple of "c notes" and take that bad boy off your hands. it's the least i can do to help out a fellow Tradganger. since i'm half deaf the bow will sound real quiet to me.
Bill
QuoteNo such thing as a quiet D97 string.
I've made and used thousands of them, and had plenty of people comment on how quiet they can be--on my bow and others. A little tuning goes a long way.
I love the bows and would like to keep them but that thwak I just cant get over. I have had new PCH
and Ma 2
My MA II is the quietest bow I own. Rubber string silencers at 1/4 string points and felt under the string grooves. Whisper quiet.
I spent yesterday afternoon at the Black Widow shop and shot many, many of their bows. Strangely, even bows of the same model and poundage all had different sounds. Some were very quiet and some were making a loud "POP" for lack of a better term. I would have bought a beautiful little PTF if it were not for the noise. It was the sweetest shooting bow I have ever shot. Felt like it was drawing ten pounds lighter than it was. I did, however, end up purchasing a Bacote (dark) PCH... another bow I fell in love with. It also felt like it drew much lighter than it's actual weight. Weird thing is, you could shoot the bow next to it at the same draw weight and it would feel MUCH heavier! Don't know what causes that.
I bought that PCH because it drew so SMOOTH and was VERY quiet!
That's two custom bows in two weeks... Momma is going to flip if (when) she discovers bow #2!!! Hee!
I have to thank Toby for all his patience yesterday though. He worked hard for me and got arrows bare shafted and set up for the new bow too.
Great folks, great company.
In my experience the best thing I ever did was put an SBD bowstring on my PL3. Turned it into a completely different bow. I have SBDs on just about all of my bows and I have several. The next string that goes on my PSA will be an SBD. My son just put an 8 strand SBD on his 64" Bill Stewart recurve and all you hear now is a whisper. Amazing strings.
QuoteOriginally posted by The Vanilla Gorilla:
Keep in mind, quiet is subjective...
I've been to trad gatherings hearing guys brag on how quiet their Widow is. When I hear their bow go off, I wonder about how many years they had to have worked in a foundery with no ear protection.
I've never heard a quiet Black Widow. Ever. And I've been around a ton. But...they just weren't quiet by MY standards. The guy shooting them thought they were quiet as a mouse fart.
Everyone thinks their own Widow is the quietest and everyone thinks their own kid is the cutest.
Posting can be subjective as well..... I sense a little hostility in this one, and not sure why.
I mostly shoot longbows, and on occasion shoot a recurve, and I don't own a loud bow...but I know what one sounds like. So, my widow is not loud or I wouldn't own it.
Sounds like the author of this thread now has a quiet widow too. Good to hear.
Are your nocks too tight on the string.This may cause a loud noise.I have three widows and all are pretty quiet.I have people tell me this, that is how I judge my bows.If you pluck your string it is loud on a widow. The sliencers need to be in the right position on the string. I use the stock string.Also the stock sliencers or the wool puffs.Very few bows are as smooth to draw back to 30" as a widow recurve.I have shot a few different brands.I guess this is the main reason i chose to shoot a widow,if I drew only 28" or less I shoot a less expensive bow. Most bows are smooth to 27 or 28".Anyway sorry about the rambling.Good luck.
try a 12/18 astroflight string with 25gr quiviut silencers (no more weight on them)...you should get a huge difference...the astroflight is significantly quieter than the D97 and the more you wax it, the more it is...