this is for u guys that have done some caribou hunting. im goin this year. im headed to alaska the end of september. going to be camping for 2 weeks. hunting unit 23.
i know the weather can change that time of the year. i am talking with the guy who is puting us on the animals so he is helping alot about gear and cloths. but i need some trad guys imput. this guy bow hunts himself and has killed alot of caribou with his bow so im confident he is going to put me on the animals. im more than confident in my arrows set up. im going to take the same arrows i killed my elk with this past year. should i take a pistol for grizzly protection? i got a 45 i can take with me.
please give me all the advise you can give
thanks john w
Yes take a pistol for bear problems. I'm not real fond of the .45 but if it's all you have it'll make a lot of noise.
Your elk setup will be more then enough for 'bou.
Mike
Get some good bear spray IMO; a 45 will not stop an adrenaline hyped bear.
You are more than likely in for a great time. Sounds like you have a good contact, but maybe I can add a few things.
Take lots of arrows, distances are deceiving and the tundra can really swallow up your misses.
Late September is almost early winter there, so definitely be prepared for cold weather, and a tent that can handle snow.
I would definitely bring a firearm, but would probably leave it in the tent. It's too remote an area to not have one in camp, but the chances of having problems with one except near a kill or salmon stream are kinda low. Having said that, I had to kill a very large black bear while working on one of the major rivers in that Unit years ago, it just would not leave our camp and it was a dangerous situation due to it's size and beligerence.
I would suggest bear spray and like Bjorn said .45 isn't gonna win a fight if it comes down to it. Now a short 12ga slung over your back would.
12 gauge with SSGs -- the best kind of bear spray
Only hunted Alaska a few times, but when I did, used a Remington 12 gauge 870 with a sawed off barrel and pistol grip slung over my shoulder loaded with slugs when in grizzly country. Will probably take my S&W 44 mag on my next trip because it's much lighter. Would take a 454 Casull if I could afford one. Still like the shotgun in camp though.
John, TAKE A SHOTGUN!!! I would like to see ya when ya get back.
Randy
I went on a bou hunt in 1999. I took a 44 mag in a shoulder holster. I would forget that I had it on. I did sllep better at night with it in the tent. I would also scent mark an area around the tent at ever chance I had. Here is the rest of the story. I was hunting on the other side of a lake from my tent. I had my pistol. waiting for a caribou to come around my end of the lake. About 200 yards away a Grizzly bear comes over the top of a small hill. It is just seasrching around, but heading my direction being around the finger of the lake.At about 80 yards I stand up and start hollering and waving my arms to scare it off. It keeps coming my direction. About 50 yards away He does not care what I am doing. And now I have to decide what I am going to do. In the flat tundra I was in I had no choices. I stopped waving and hollering and backed myself up against a boulder and propped my elbows on my knes and prepared for whatever it decided to do. The whole time I am now hollering agian. It stans up on its back legs and looks my direction and starts angling off . back to the bushes and skirted the lake farther out. But headed to the back side of my camp. That night I would gett up and beat my pots and pans together in an attemp to scare it away from camp. Having the gun will make you feel a whole lot safer in big bear country. Do try to get atleast 300gr bullets.
For the most part you don't have to worry about bears. I was there for 45 years and was only charged twice by grizz. Usually they'll run from you before you even know their around.
Stop worrying about bears and enjoy your hunt. It is a good idea to have a camp shotgun. The first round with number 8 shot will take care of a bears vision. After that slugs. In Cold Bay one year they took some bear skulls and tried 00 Buckshot. Didn't even penetrate the skull from the front.
Each bear is a new mystery. I've shot a .338 round under the nose of a sow with 2 cubs and she never even broke stride. Another bear which was watching my buddy do dishes from about 20 feet left the country when a slug hit the water by it.
Bear spray is best. I bet not one in 25 of the guys who post here could stop a bear coming fast and close with a pistol. I've killed many grouse with a .22 pistol by head shooting them and I would bet I couldn't stop the bear either.
Most charges are bluff. Had one charge our camp south of Prudhoe one year. I ran at it yelling and throwing gravel. It turned. I didn't do it because I'm particularly brave. He caught me by surprise and I did that while my brother got the shotgun.
I would suggest that you read some info online and books about grizzlies. Best policy that I have read is keep a clean camp. Store food, meat away from sleep area. If you did shoot a bear, be prepared for lots of legal issues. I did a float hunt years ago in Alaska, lots of dinner plate sized tracks but never saw a bear...thankfully.
While arguing the superiority of his bear spray, a guy once said to me...
"Tell you what: You give me your hundred dollar bill and I'll hold it with my hundred dollar bill in my left hand. I'll have bear spray in my right hand. If you can get to me and get the money, you win. You'll lose."
I said, "Okay, I accept your bet 100%. You get in your tent and get all zipped up. I'll turn out the lights. Ready?"
That pretty much ended the conversation.
" I bet not one in 25 of the guys who post here could stop a bear coming fast and close with a pistol "
I did but its more of a testament to the pistol not me. A 475 linebaugh in a freedom arms 83. Made me a believer in big slow moving bullets.
I've had a couple of situations where I just wanted to get a black bear to move on. In both cases, when I threw something in front of them, they just watched it bounce by without moving. But, when I threw something behind them, they took off like a scalded cat!
My theory: There is always a bigger, badder bear in the woods looking to pounce on another, smaller bear, so when a bear hears something behind them, they don't investigate the source, they just split, because it could be that big bear putting the sneak on them.
So, if the bear is not charging you (obviously) or facing you, I'd suggest throwing something behind it, or even shooting in the ground behind it to get it moving out of the area.
Bear story: While working in Skagway, our surveyors heard a commotion uphill of the highway they were working on. They just looked up, when a black bear came flying through the air off of a 30' rock cut, hitting the road with thump. The blackie didn't even slow down, even though that 30' plop onto the pavement had to hurt! He just jumped over the guardrail and continued down into the Skagway River Valley.
The reason for this paniced flight (literally)? It was being chased by a grizzly, which stopped at the top of the cut.
Will likely also carry bear spray, but recently bought a new Franchi 20-gauge semi autoloader youth model purposely for an Alaska trip someday. It's the lightest in weight autoloading shotgun on the market, compact and easy to handle and feel more to have on my person at all times in the bush up there (and more potent with buckshot) than any hogleg big bore bulky handgun. Gonna reduce the barrel length to around 19" and packing it with a back scabbard will be much more comfortable than a big handgun, plus getting it up there much more simpler.
As one gun writer once said when asked the best gun for personal defense? His reply – " The one you have on you".
In the mean time, my first grandson expected to arrive in a couple weeks can use it until I get up there...8^)
If I was concerned about bears and you should be, I wouldn't carry anything less then 454 casell. Always a good excuse to buy another bun lol.
Sounds like you have one heck of a great hunting trip planned. Go, enjoy it, take lots of pictures to show us, and most of all, do yourself a huge favor and file the front sight off of the .45, that way when the bear shoves it up your arse, it won't hurt as much. I'm a believer that the biger the caliber, the better.
All kidding aside, I wouldn't worry to much about the bears. Your guide up there will be the best advice giver for the simple fact that he knows the area already, and what to expect from it.
Yes, I carried a 44 mag pistol when I hunted Alaska. I had talked to Asbell about it before going at a WV Bowhunters convention and he recommended carrying a pistol. He said it is better than throwing rocks and I agree.
Comparison:
Can haze a threatening bear and possibly stop a charge? Gun-yes. Spray-no.
Can wound or kill a bear? Gun-yes. Spray-no.
Can defend before bear is within 20'? Gun-yes. Spray-no.
Can use during the night in tent? Gun-yes. Spray-not advised.
Can reload after using? Gun-yes. Spray-no.
Can ignore wind direction when using? Gun-yes. Spray-no.
Can practice with it? Gun-yes. Spray-does anyone practice?
Can fly it on aircraft? Gun-yes. Spray-not advised.
Can survival hunt with it? Gun-yes. Spray-no.
Can signal for help with it? Gun-yes. Spray-no.
Can be used without much practice? Gun-no. Spray-yes.
Can be bought at destination? Gun-no. Spray-yes.
Can be used in residential areas? Gun-no. Spray-yes.
Costs much less to acquire? Gun-no. Spray-yes.
Relies on compressed air? Gun-no. Spray-yes.
There are other considerations of course. This is the list which I created, and which led me to decide on a good, reliable firearm. I also asked a good number of guys who've spent a lot of time in Alaska's backcountry what they prefer. The overwhelming choice was a good firearm.
Something to think about. If you were injured or lost and forced to spend a few days in a survival situation in the Alaska bush; and if you had to immediately choose between a 12 oz can of pepper spray and a really good gun...which item would you choose?
With G & F when we had to 'work' a nuisance bear we generally never left the truck without our Rem. 870's. Spray has its place but when poop hits the deck I'd rather have the 12g. in my hands.
You'd be wise to have a firearm with you. Primarily for hauling meat and around camp. You don't often need a gun for bear protection but when you need one you need one badly.
I personally dont and wouldnt waste my time with bear spray, it takes a ton of practice or a truckload of luck to successfully stop a charge with a pistol, especially if you didnt even know the bear was there, and your chance of a bear problem is very slim, and a shotgun is tough to carry while bow hunting. BUT with all that said, I personally would bring a shotgun for camp and meat hauling, and if you aims off with the bow and you want some camp meat there are probly ptartmigan around
good luck and happy hunting
Fin
I was lucky enough to hunt in alaska twice. The first time I had my rifle or a 12 ga.with me all the time. I have a picture of a guy with a big brown spot on his back side, it was made at 3 am. I"ll take a 12 ga. any day. The second trip I camped alone on the penincula.I had a Blond Griz 100 yrds from camp the first day. At about 230 am I could hear somthing heavy moving around outside the tent. The only thing I could see was the night sights on my 44 mag.I do not think a 44 is enough gun for a griz but it"s better than letting him chew on your skull. Ended up being two caribou passing through. I"ll take a 12 ga. any day.
I was fishing in bird creek south of anchorage and after brownie #2 came sliding out of the bushes about 150 yds upstream I reeled up, headed back to anchorage, and went to wallmart and purchased a marlin model 1895 45-70 and some 405 grn softpoints. I felt alot better seeing my next bear with the rifle over my back than the 44mag I was carrying. The moral of this story even though Im a very decent pistol shot the energy from a large bore rifle or slug is several times more than any hand gun most can shoot accuately. I would really consider a marlin guide gun in 450 marlin. These guns are short, light, and plenty of power along with the accuracy to get the job done. Throw in some ghost ring sights and your all set.
As this thread has morphed into a 'gun or not' direction, I might also add a few additional thoughts.
You need to understand that your bear risk may be very low...or not. It depends on where you are hunting, and how familiar the bears are with human contact. Bears are curious, but their tendencies are to avoid contact with unfamiliar situations. If they almost never see or smell a human, they are far less likely to present a problem. Bears that are frequently in contact with humans do not always share the avoidance mentality, and may be willing to assert some 'authority' in an encounter. Know your bears and the risks, but also know that nothing is 100%.
If I felt I would be in an area known for risky bear behavior, I wouldn't carry my big pistol...but would opt for a bigger pistol or a stocked gun. No gun being perfect, I'd realize that a stocked gun is harder to carry, slower to access, and more cumbersome in tight quarters. Where I moose hunt, we do see grizzlies but they are extremely wild and not at all habituated to human activities. I feel well-equipped with my laser-gripped Smith & Wesson revolver. Better than spray, but not as potent as some weapons. The statistics favor never getting scratched by a bear. The gun is insurance, and an aid. I selected my specific weapon because I knew I would carry it every single day in the bush. A weapon left in camp is a useless weapon. Your best weapon however? That would be knowledge of bears in the specific area you'll be hunting.
Advise from a trad perspective?!?!
Take lot's of wool clothing or fleece and good water proof outer shell. Be ready for really cold and possibly wet weather. Extra wool socks and warm dry foot ware.
The weather will kill you before any bears...
Take an extra tent to store your gear in and use yourself in case something goes wrong with your main tent.
I spent quite a bit of time in Alaska when I was in the Army. A hot loaded heavy bullet 45 long colt might be enough if your lucky. A 45 ACP is a bad joke as bear medicine. Frankly so is a 44 magnum. If that is what you have get a bigger gun or bear spray! A 454 Casull would be the minimum pistol I would use, and it would be a back up. Never bring a pistol to a gunfight! Or a big bear fight. You really should check the bear risk for your hunting area. It may be really low. I always carried a riot gun with slugs on my personal time. I carried an M - 60 machine gun while on duty in the field, which I felt completely safe with by the way. We saw a lot of bears and never had a problem with them. If your hunting buddy has a heavy weapon stay together on your hunt and you're covered with one weapon. Good advice anyways. Getting lost in the tundra can make you dead real quick.
I've hunted AK twice, the first time without a gun, and we had enough issues with bears I took a gun the second time and would probably not go back without one. My brother took a short-barreled 12 ga. with slugs; I carried a .44 Magnum. I admit that it seemed inadequate when standing next to a full-bodied bear mount in a Kodiak, AK motel, but on my first trip I'd had a bear spray can de-pressurize to uselessness.
Nice thing with a .44 Magnum, you can get acquainted with your gun and work on your marksmanship and handling with the cheaper .44 Special ammo, and save the .44 Magnum rounds for the real deal. Practicing with the .44 Mag was really not much fun; but shooting the .44 Spcl load was enjoyable. In the heat of the moment in the field, I don't think the hotter magnum rounds would even be noticed by the shooter. I also thought that the ball of flames coming out of the barrel might be a deterrent or at least start the bear on fire if he got on me. :eek:
I think if I were to return, I'd consider the portable electric fence unit for around the tent to sleep better at night.
It depends on your level of comfort being our there in bear country. I do carry a pistol or bear spray when I bow hunt.
On my last grizz bow hunt I had the pistol drawn and aimed at the boar grizz as my buddy missed it at 35yards. The bear ran like a scared coyote.
Would the pistol have done any good?? I don't know. I shoot it a lot. I am always practicing. I hand load 300grn hard cast flat nose bullets for it.
It did make me feel more comfortable though.
If I were you I would carry it. It isnt going to weigh you down much as hunting that time of year you will have some heavy clothing and gear.
It may make you feel more comfortable and I think that is what you are looking for. The chances of actually having a serious encounter are statistically improbable.
Like others said. The best thing is to keep a clean camp. Be smart and enjoy the experience of a lifetime!!