Ok, So here is my questions? First off I need to know if anyone has a source to authenticate a Fred Bear Signature I can get on paper? The next question is: I just won a Fred Bear 66 Kodiak that is signed "To Big Al" "Fred Bear" Would you have this bow authenticated and re finish taking " To Big Al" off the bow? Personaly I would rather own and shoot a bow signed by Fred without someone elses name on it. I would think the value would be higher yet a person brought up a good point to me. Everything on that bow was Freds writing. Maybe I could get a sticker like Widow does to cover up the who the bow is made for. Any thoughts? Either way I am proud to own this bow, even though it's a lefty. I will submit pics when I get the bow in. It just ended on the Auction site we all are familiar with.
Shane,i have seen that bow and the signature looks authentic.
About the dedication to the original owner I think it can disturb some guys,not me personally,and the value could be a little higher.
It is very easy to take off the unwanted writing,but if you aren't familiar you can ask to any bowyer or send it to some pro refinisher/restorer that are on this site.
I wonder if that is the same "Big Al" who was the sportscaster on the Laugh In show back in the mid to late 1960s.
Needs more research, maybe take this to the collectors' forum. Be a shame to make a big (Al) mistake.
Killdeer
Threre is a guy Named Al Reader from New Jersey who is considered the most knowledgeable Bear collector alive. He knows everything about Bear bows and history. Maybe it was signed for him?
HA! I saw this bow on **** also! I almost bid on on it! Would have had no idea I was bidding against ya and money was on the short side at that point. Congrats on the Win!!! Looked like a heck of a piece to me. As far as that writing goes it did look to be an authentic signature. I wondered the same thing about the "to big Al" on the riser. My thoughts were originally the same as yours on removing that if possible. In my own opinion...I suppose I would probably leave it on there but that is just me... Best of luck to you and congrats again! That was a neat bow!
If that bow was signed for Al Reader, then do not take that name off. He was a legend in the Bear collecting circles and was a wealth of knowledge in archery and Bear archery. Could make the bow more valuable.
Personally, I wouldn't even think of touching a thing. If Fred wrote it I would want it all original. Anything that you do to take away from original condition, including Fred's writings, would take away from potential collector value as well as destroy a small piece of archery history.
Just my opinion, but I would be proud to own a bow signed to Big Al if it was written by Fred - regardless of who Big Al is. The only way it could be better is if Fred had signed it to you personally, but of course that didn't happen, and deleting the writing can't alter history. And if Big Al turns out to be Al Reader, you have a real treasure!
Listen to Danny. If that bow was signed for Al Reader (who sadly passed away a couple years ago) then leave it. Al was "the man" when it came to Bear collecting.
A number of Al's bows have been sold already but the good ones are still to come..............that would be 'one of the good ones' or it is a different 'Big Al'. Either way sell it to someone who appreciates it and buy what you like.
its just a name why change anything it is good mojo.
This is a Al out of california who owned a hunting store. If that helps
I would not change a thing.
68 super k. I was the only one to bid on that bow. I put in a max of 450 the last 3 seconds and of course got it for 300. I have seen one more for sale same price on another forum. Trying to get the guy to answer me is the problem
If Fred signed it, leave it.
Shane, I bought a Howard Hill "Hunten the Hard Way" off the big auction site,it was a hard back $20.00 and inside was an autograph (to my hunting buddy Dale Allen signed Howard Hill) I checked with Jerry Hill and through the copy write date and distribution date it was obviously a fake, Howard was deceased before that date.
That being said be very careful the HH autograph looked just like Howards.
As I remember, that bow didn't sell very high so the signature didn't add much to its value this time around. The dedication and Fred's signature have sufficient space between them such that the dedication to Big Al could be easily removed without disturbing the signature. I'm not big on autographs, but I would leave Fred's signature. The other stuff, not so much. Your choice though.
Shane,
Yeah I understand that, some sellers are tough to get a hold of. Hopefully you have luck with that one. Well done on the bidding there btw that's awesome. It's always nice when there is no contest at all, and seems to be a great price! happy hunting
if it was to turn out
a fake i just drove up 66 kodiak prices. I do need to find someone to authenticate. Suggestions would be appreciated.
You probably need a handwriting expert to be sure. Perhaps a collector like Wade Philips might help you. You will likely spend more on the authentication than you did on the bow if you want it to be beyond reproach and not just an opinion.
Orion,
I have had many opinions on this bows Signature. Take the Big Al off or not. Most say not to because it will hurt the history. If I was to have the bow authenticated I am sure the value would go up, problem is will the value go down if I do take the Big Al off after authenticating? If I had another bow with Freds Signature this would be a much more easy choice for me. I am working on that though. Next task is to obtain a Grumley
Leave it...
It is part of the bow's history.
Most of the Fred Bear signatures tha I have seen on bows include inscriptions/dedications.
I never have understood why people have issues shooting a bow with someone else's name on it. All of my bows except one has another name on it. that how it goes when you buy a previously owned bows. its part of each bows history. each scratch, ding and name.
Additionally i cant imagine altering a bow that has Fred Bears inscriptions. Its a piece of Archery history.
Shane, enjoy that bow for what it is. Don't alter a thing.
I can just imagine sitting around a camp fire with Fred, at the end of a long and satisfying days hunt. After you crawl into your sleeping bag in your tent, Fred sneaks out and signs your bow, laughing and wondering when you will notice.
I had a friend who was once the top shooter in the county and was sponsored by Bear Archery in the 60s and 70s if I remember right. His name was Al Condiff and he went by the nickname "Big Al", even had this nickname embroidered on his jeans back pockets.
Al and his wife Viola won a total of 7 national championships, 35 state championships, had too many second and third place finishes to count.
Unfortunately Al passed away a couple years ago from a heart attack at 76 years of age.
Al had amassed a sizable collection of archery stuff over the years. As his health deteriorated and money got tight I sold a bunch of stuff for him on the net to ease his financial burden, Al didn't have internet access.
Al used to brag that he could out shoot Fred Asbel so I asked Fred if he knew Al at the Spring Fling last week, he remembered him well.
Al was never at a loss for words, matter of fact he could really get on one's nerves with his non stop talking. Al was a motor mouth to put it mildly, usually patting himself on the back for his past accomplishments.
In spite of his "gift for gab" he had a heart of gold and devoted the majority of his life to promoting archery and bringing kids into the sport.
He was still a great shot(wheels)in the year he died. He had perfect 20-20 vision and didn't wear glasses in spite of his advanced age.
Al told me a museum in Illinois had a display of his national championship trophies and a profile about his archery accomplishments. In his day he was the best.
I highly suspect the inscription on your bow is to the "Big Al" I knew. Al told me he spent a lot of time at Bear Archery having bows built for him. He was a big guy(long draw) and said they got upset with him for breaking so many bows.
Al's widow lives just down the road from me. I will check with her to see if the inscription might be to her "Big Al".
this is a cool mystery / Investigation
please keep this thread updated
Bingo! I just called Viola, she said her and Al spent a lot of time with Fred Bear and that Fred did inscribe a bow for Al like is mentioned in this thread.
I would not change one small speck of anything on that bow...
This is cool stuff.
You own a piece of history, dont change it. IMO
You own a piece of history, dont change it. IMO
the previous owners name was Alvin Wallner. He had a sporting goods store in LA. The guy hunted only once with Fred as I have been told.
Just change your name to Al and call it done!
I wouldn't change a thing.
Great idea Skipmaster1......
Skip,
I don't know if the name Al or Big Al could even grow on me ;o)
Could you post a picture of the inscription?I could show it to Viola to see if it rings a bell.
QuoteOriginally posted by Shane Reed:
if it was to turn out
a fake i just drove up 66 kodiak prices. I do need to find someone to authenticate. Suggestions would be appreciated.
Trust me on this one.......you contributed no impact to the prices on 66 or any other year Kodiak. As many of the collectors are aware, this is "prime time".....right on the cusp of spring and tax time. Keep an eye on Bear recurves on the big auction over the next two months or so and prepare to be amazed when it comes to nice or rare bows. It has already started.
BTW - you did well, price wise. Fred's signature appears authentic. The inscription is probably as well. As for the inscription, post a good photo of the riser so Eric can try to get that part authenticated as he requested.
Another thing, Al was 76 when he died but Viola is currently only 63, Al was 27 when he married a then 15 year old Viola. Nothing wrong with her memory, she is sharp as a tack.
They never had kids or owned a house, they crossed the country in a travel trailer Al's entire working career, I think he was an insulating contractor. When they weren't on a job they competed in archery tournaments where ever they happened to be at the time.
Very cool story - sounds like Big Al and Viola had some exciting times. Keep the bow as is.
It amazing how this internet stuff can bring all this info together so fast!
bow will be in on the seventh. I have a surprise for you all! I made another connection and have not only a mint never shot 77 super grizzly signed by Fred to another famous guy, a signed picture to him and a bunch of other hunting pics of Fred with this guy on the way to me soon. Tell all when they arrive. Keep an eye on this thread in near future.