Trad Gang

Just got back from a week of entertaining [singing my hunting songs] for the Eastern Chapter of the Wild Sheep Foundation. Heard that in Reno a couple of weeks ago, one tag sold for three hundred thousand dollars! I spelled it out so you would know there was no extra zeros....

Yep, those Governor and Commissioner tags raise a lot of money for species-specific conservation.

Hunting is still the best deal around.  I spent more filling my truck's gas tank this weekend than I'll spend for an entire year's worth of hunting licenses in my home state.  A tank and a half will pay for my NR license in Indiana.  

My organization raised $22,000 with the sale of a single KY Elk Tag last year. We'll be doing it again shortly for this year.

Wasn't the deal with very limited tags and high prices just a way to fund the sheep restoration programs and also bring some public awareness by allowing a few people to harvest a few sheep?

I may be wrong, but I always thought the sheep setup was about the same as the elk hunt lottery here in Michigan. With Michigan charging like $4 for each of the 40,000 people that apply, it's an easy way to help fund the program, yet still allow some elk to be hunted.

I've never considered sheep hunting in the lower 48 a sport for the average joe. Frankly, sheep hunting in Canada and Alaska is out of reach for most guys.

Yes it's out of control here for sure. If I draw a resident big bull tag it will cost me $280. A nonres is even more ridiculous. We have a "sportsman" group out here that has really hurt the average Joe's chance to hunt. It's cheaper for me to hunt out of state. It's sad really.

Bowwild it cost me around $300.00 a year just to hunt deer, ad another 100-200 if you want turkey.Thats just permits and extra buck tags.

Now at 300,000.00 is that a guaranteed animal, And is the lodge a casino with showgirls...LOL

Here in KY I spend only about $110 for an annual sportsman's license (2 deer, 4 turkey, and all the squirrel you care to eat)) to cover all critters. I don't hunt em all but I like the one-stop shopping.  The IN NR tag is $150 for one deer (1 deer).

Sounds like you (Tim) must pay extra to hunt those NJ deer and turkey with NE accents?

Its amazing what they charge you to shoot dwarf deer. I think our NR is $120.00 now thats funny!

 You think with all the money each state brings in for license cost, ect. that there would be more state lands being protected or even purchased for the purpose of preservation. Instead we have to rely on other organizations like DU,RMEF,NWTF and others to do it for the states.What gives? I wish Teddy Roosevelt was still president.

I spend on average 300 a year for in state and out of state tags it would be more but I bought a lifetime license in WV in 1995 for $200 the best money I have ever spent.  With that being said hunting and fishing is cheap compared with many sports, when I used to golf it was typically $50 a day when you add in cart fees I can hunt deer here in ohio for under 50 for a year.

Ryan...I know of "that" sportsman group as well, thanks to a few of your fellow statesmen clueing me in to how they operate.  They have moved into our state as well, flying the wolf banner high to attract new members here.   I will be watching them with a suspicious eye.  

Jim, you are right-on.  The biggest danger to our sport these days, and in future days is access and costs and it's effect on "average" guys being able to participate.   It has to remain a sport of the common man if it's to survive "as is", for all of us to enjoy.  

Pick your "evil" as it relates to the problems of hunting these days, and you can trace it all to $$$$$.    These tags are often put up there with the lure of helping out the cause of conservation, and they often do....but they are a sypmtom of the disease that is creeping in on us from every angle.  My opinion.  

I understand the costs involved with most regular tag fees....and most are related to management and administrative costs involved with running a state's wildlife dept....I can live with that.    But selling off tags to the highest bidder - even if the monies are earmarked for a good purpose - somehow cheapens things, or "prostitutes" an otherwise noble venture.    What we need is attention taken to preserve the North American Conservation Model in this country as the premier model for the world, that it is.   Our wildlife is owned and accessible to the general public, and not the priveledged few.   I could go on, and I don't know if this is where you wanted this discussion to go, Jim, but like I said....it is all kinda connected.

Well said Mark.  It all makes me kind of sad.

Here in the state of Texas, it costs me $68/year for a resident Super Combo license.

This is a freshwater, saltwater and hunting license with all the tags (bull redfish tag, bowhunting, etc).

QuoteOriginally posted by Mark Baker:


Jim, you are right-on.  The biggest danger to our sport these days, and in future days is access and costs and it's effect on "average" guys being able to participate.  

Mark:

The future of hunting is what I work on for a living on a daily basis here in MN.

When I talk to my peers in other states including Western States like yours I am really glad I live and work here.

We have better than 10 million acres of public land open to hunting.

With recent dedicated funds from sales tax revenues we are acquiring additional public hunting lands every year.

That said, when we surveyed our deer hunters in 2000 and in 2005 we found that 75% of them utilize private lands for hunting.

So, even though we have lots of public land available most folks are still connected either through family and friends to private land access.

So, to make a long story short at least in our state access is not as big an issue as in other states.

As far as cost. A resident archery license is $26, I can buy one over the counter.

In the area I hunt I can buy an additional 4 doe tags at $15 per tag.

This license allows me to hunt for 3-1/2 months.

Hunting here in MN is pretty inexpensive and still pretty accessible.

Jay

I turned 65 last month.  Shortly thereafter I went to the DNR office and purchased my lifetime hunting/fishing/GMA license for $10.  The only thing I'll have to pay for in the future is doe tags.

Bill

Here in New York I pay about $100 for Super sportsman  Hunting and Fishing Lic. That has spring and Fall Turkey tags [2 each season],fishing, Archery, Black powder,Firearms and a doe tag that you may or may not draw. I get a turkey about every 3 years, I fish and practice catch and release and I average seeing 2-3 deer a year while hunting. It is what it is.

Hunting in Virginia is about 100.00 with gun, muzzelloader, bow, big game ,National and State Forest stamps. Considering that a dozen arrows can easily cost more than that-what a bargain. My deer cost me 33.00 each-not including all the fun and friends included. In our state hunting is still a bargain.
If you go on guided hunts you can expect to pay a bundle as you are buying the knowledge of a [hopefully] professional.
Just One opinion, Roy

Jay...not disagreeing with you.  I too, have been involved - because I love it so - in preserving hunting and fishing opps as well, for more than a couple decades here.   There are examples to further whatever comment you want to make everywhere.   My point is that hunting "in general", across the country, is under attack by groups from within our own ranks (whether they know it or not) who are seeking to control the resource for their own profit.   Their are arguments to be made for promoting tag auctions...and their are arguments against as well.   Game departments are not to blame...but they are not always blameless - like any govt agency having to "sell" thier efforts as credible - and we all need to be vigilant, and not be afraid to give critique when needed.  

Like I said, I don't know if this was where Jim was going with this, and perhaps I got carried away.   "Buying" an opportunity like that will never be in my ability, and even if I did, I could'nt really be proud of the fact I did....when I know so many try and do it the "real guy" way and will never have a chance, either.  It further promotes a rich-mans sport attitude among the populace, and does us no good, IMO, among non-hunters either.   Minnesota may not have problems.   And there is still a lot of opportunity out west...true.   But every year we fight multiple attempts through the legislatures and game depts., veiled as "opportunities", that really are a taking of a public resource for profit by a few.    

It never hurts to examine our actions to see if benefits outway the detriments.  I'm not saying this is one, just that it isn't always a good thing.  

It costs quite a bit more here in MT to hunt for us residents, but it is still a bargain in my book and as I said originally, I am not criticizing game depts. for raising license fees where needed.  Just pointing out some potential trends.   Doesn't help putting our heads in the sand to the issues.

I just turned 60 and here in Alaska that means all regular hunting and fish licenses are free from now on. What a place.  Ben

Now thats cool, Ben!

I agree with Mark.  Everyone should have the same opportunity regardless of financial statue.

When I had my first job, I saved up and bought a lifetime hunting/fishing La license for $500.00.  One of my best investments, especially when you have general game, deer tag, archery tag, muzzleloader tag, state duck stamp, general fishing, saltwater fishing, etc.  It adds up, AND it saves time - I can throw a line in the water at any time without worrying about it.

If you are young and in a state that has lifetime licenses, and you think you will be there about 5-10 years, you should definitely look into it.  With cash strapped fed and state budgets as far as the eye can see, you can almost bet they will be continually raising license prices (we are a minority that can be picked on to raise revenue).  Do the math and you will probably pay for it in 5-7 years of full licenses.

lpc - I hunt NJ as a non-resident, seems like the "fees" never stop.  ONE year I did archery and muzzleloader - was around $300 for licenses, not counting my PA tag and the western trip I make every year.  Surprised I'm engaged.

I was not meaning to be critical of anything. I sat in on a seminar concerning how the money was used to "put sheep on the Mountain" as they say. It is a very worthy organization and they are doing great work. It just amazed this poor boy
musician that someone would put out that kind of money for one hunt. At the auction they auctioned a small eagle figure which was bought and donated back about six times. A $29.95 statue ended up bringing in around $4500.00 for the organization. Go figure

Just look at what the pound cake does at the St Jude Auction. Thats amazing.

I'm over 70 and have lived in AZ for over 27 years so I get a Pioneers license for hunting, fishing. The permits have to be purchased, as well as a 2 pole stamp.

 Bill, when you get to the old farts group they figure you are not in shape to abuse the free-bee's. They may be surprised if get my 4x4 walker   :biglaugh:          Chort

I have to agree with Mark.  Yes tag auctions raise a lot of money for good causes, but there is just something about a public trust resource being auctioned to the highest bidder that doesn't sit well with me. It's just plain not fair to the regular guy.

QuoteOriginally posted by jsweka:
It's just plain not fair to the regular guy.

Then you have to ask, if that hunt doesn't sell for $300,000.00 (same as years past) would the animals be there for the "regular" guy to hunt?  The Golden Rule is a necessary evil.  He who has the gold, makes the rules.

Good to know your watching Mark. I'm sure Tim has clued youin a bit. As for the auction tags, this argument can go on and on, and probably will. This is a very hot topic. My question is if these auction tags bring in so much for "conservation", then why is the mule deer herd in UT at an all time low and the tags issued are at an all time low? Go figure  ;)  
I just hope my kids have a chance and something to hunt when they are 30  

I personally know people who have said and I believe mean it that this would be their last year hunting. I hate to hear this as I agree that something must be done or else all of hunting (guided, nonguided, rifle, bow, etc...) will be so expensive that no one will be able to go hunting.

Thought I would add that limbbender is right I have a lifetime license and it is well worth the money.

Jim,
          Good to hear you are still getting around entertaining !! We have been thinking about heading to your brother inlaws again soon.
       Take Care

QuoteOriginally posted by Mike Vines:
 

QuoteOriginally posted by jsweka:
It's just plain not fair to the regular guy.

Then you have to ask, if that hunt doesn't sell for $300,000.00 (same as years past) would the animals be there for the "regular" guy to hunt?  The Golden Rule is a necessary evil.  He who has the gold, makes the rules. [/b]

If it takes an additional $300,000.00 to insure that the animals would be there for the "regular" guy then the agency in charge should explain why they need an additonal $300,000.00 and raise the cost of a tag appropriately for all who apply.  A small increase for all is more palatable and democratic than giving special privilages to a chosen few.

Wildlife is a public resource and everyone should have an equal opportunity to utilize that resource.  If these tag auctions become more common, that public resource has now become the king's resource.

I'd gladly pay a few hundred bucks for more public land to hunt. A lease in TX (a good lease) can be a couple thousand. I used to play that game, but being a grown up is expensive...houses, wife, kids, etc.  I'm giving public land a go (license and tags are cheap), but there just isn't that much to go around.

Hunting in France is not "cheap" either, where I live I have to have a hunting licence, which is valid fo r life,a bow licence, then every year I pay 176€ validate my licence to hunt deer and boar, that all goes to the Federation de chases (gov). Then i can start looking for some hunting. I join my local hunt because there is a no stalking rule in my commune so to hunt deer and boar it's only beaten hunts. Not too easy with a bow! That costs an extra 80€. I don't get a tag though I take my chances with the guns and share the result at the end of the day.

In my home state I look at the cost of the liscenses/stamps/tags (about $100/yr) this way. If I go hunting 10 times a year it costs me $10/day. That's about what it costs to go see a movie and I hunt more than 10 times a year so it cost me probably a couple buck per hunting day. When I think of where the cost of hunting is going is with the guided trips. Some are just incredible. There has been many threads on here about the Do-It-Yourself way and how to save money to make a trip happen. All great stuff. An example for me would be like if I wanted to hunt elk I have 2 options. Option 1 is go with an outfitter. Option 2 is DIY. A guided archery elk hunt would cost me $5500 round numbers for the hunt, liscense, airfare, tip, etc... DIY cost a fair amount too. I could see $2000 being reasonable for DIY. But I've never hunted elk, or lived in the mountains. I lack the woodsman skills to feel confident doing DIY myself. I have close friends that hunt but I have yet to talk them into makeing a trip with me. (I envy those who have those hunting trip companions) Since I don't feel confident/safe doing a DIY elk hunt solo, I'm looking at option 1 and lots of money. I don't know. I just wrote all of that and don't even know if it makes any sense.  I guess I just wish a guided trip cost less. But then again I wish a lot of things cost less.   ;)

I have never been on a guided trip, per se. I have gone on hunts with buddies who knew the area very well. So, actually, even though I hunted on my own, those were at least "outfitted" hunts.

I didn't think I could afford guided or outfitted hunts so all of mine over the years have been DIY.  My success has been good for mulies, bear, and antelope. My success on elk (3 DIY hunts) has been elk 3 me 0.  There were extenuating circumstances on elk hunt #3 but I still went home without an elk.  I imagine that I've spent around $1,500 for each of these hunts.

While I probably would have been more successful with guides, I don't know if I would have enjoyed the hunts as much?

No doubt that the price of hunting is going up, but it's still an excellent deal in most places.  Compare it to the prices you pay for other things, gas, for example, or your bow(s) or hunting clothes, etc.  

Most game departments are strapped for funds, and most rely heavily on license fees for revenue.  They have little choice but to raise license fees now and then.  Now, some states do sock it to non-residents pretty good, but residents pay low or modest fees in most cases.  Even the non-resident license fees, when you compare them to all of the other costs of doing such a hunt, aren't terribly out of line.

Roy, I agree about the enjoying it more. If you'd get a guide that just didn't believe in traditional equipment it could make for a "long" hunt. I often thought too that if you don't just jump in the DIY you may never "learn" the skills I say I lack.

I as smart enough about 10 years ago to buy lifetime licenses. Since then they have increased the fees for them 3 times.

My typical license costs for fishing, small game and big game run around $260.  If I draw a sheep tag, it will go to $510  :scared:   Fuel can easily be another $300 for all the seasons combined (except fishing).  BUT, if I manage to bring home 250 pounds of boned out meat that is only $2.24 per pound.  Course, that does not include "labor"  ;)   or equipment, but I'm at the point where annual equipment costs are negligible.

here in ca it seems the cost to go hunting gos up every year 41 for the liscence and 27 for 1 deer tag .deer numbers are down 40% in the last 20 yrs from disease and food for cougars. also habitat loss i guess.

There are lots of hunting opportunities out there that have very resonable fees. Many opportunites are rather expensive or completely unobtainable for most. That is the way of life.

Complain about them if you will, but if everyone could afford to do them all, then we would be complaining about how long it took to get drawn to hunt rabbits in such and such a state.

I can't see how one should complain about non resident fees either. As someone who enjoys traveling to hunt as I do, I always have a moment to complain about them too, but just out of reaction. Yes they can be high, but I don't pay taxes in those states as the residents do yet I choose to partake in there bountiful resources and when I can't afford them, I save up or hunt somewhere else.

Remember, in a comunist country, where most everything is equal in classes, there are very few freedoms. At least here we have the right to complain abut how the goverment is over charging.

BigJim

Costs me about $1500 per year to fly to Texas to hunt, then another $1000 for a rental car and $330 for a hunting license. Gotta pay to hunt so normally another $2500 to do 3 or 4 different hunts for a month and that does not include what I pay for gas and food.