Trad Gang

I just came from the National Archery Buyers Association convention here in Reno.   There are some good looking longbows and recurves  from Samick to some really nice bamboo backed longbows from Rose City.  Then there is: a broadhead  with a laser in it.  Turn it on, point it, and center the laser dot on the target and trigger the release!,,,then a broad head that has this really long fold out blades-geez it is a taxidermists worst nightmare. The exit wounds are huge.
More laser sights, seats, packs and a great idea.  A canvas roll that allows a deer or elk cape to be rolled up for transport.  Really slick as it lashes it together for pack transport.  There is a plastic broad head looking device that's preloaded with scent.  Get in the stand and shoot it where you want a scent bomb

There are still a few trad guys, but I saw no broad heads we would recognize, no feathers, only rose city for cedars.  I spoke to Jerry at length about much bashing on cedar suppliers.  He took the comments seriously and went over his procedures.  I have used his shafts, and others, for years.  I can say thatwooden shafts take some additional love before they are ready for cresting, dipping and fletching.  Those who will not love them will have problems.

There was a guy with heavy carbon 10 gpi

Standby. The techno world of archery goes on unabated.  Luckily, we live simpler way of ARCHery

:confused:    

I am really worried where bowhunting is headed.

I guess that there comes a point where people are creating products -- any products -- to fill a niche... any niche.  There are passionate people on the other side of the fence who want to make a living doing what they love, and they have to make money at it.  I personally am not interested in most of what I see in the archery departments or pro shops these days, but I understand why it's going that way.

This is really nothing new, every manufacturer modifies their products constantly. If it's not better than the old one who would buy them. There will always be a new (gotta have) something to sell. Buy what you need for your style of hunting and let the other stuff stay on the shelf.

A lazer in a broadhead.......WOW..........wonder how much for a dozen with extra batteries???

James

Really not any different than the sights and levels that came out for recurves in the past. Then the compounds went thru many changes to arrive where they are today.
Like muzzeloader rifles- options run from flintlocks to the hotters 500 yard acurate in line gun shooting smokeless powder. Just shoot what you want and let the other stuff pass by.
I shoot longbows, recurves and also have a Drenalin compound. Shoot all with much joy. Roy

If lazer projecting broadheads get guys shooting bows, great.  Think about all the guys on this site who have come to trad after shooting compounds for years.    I think it would make me never release an arrow.  I bet my dot would be swinging all over the place.  The side of the deer would look like a Pink Floyd concert.

Bowhunting is going where its alway been going, further away from where it started.

With the exception of those who choose to hunt in the styles and traditions of the past its gonna keep getting further and further from the beginning..

Corporations are all abut business and profits. When sales of a paticular product are at or near the quantity demanded by the market there is pressure from management to expand the market for thier products. The easiest way to do this is to introduce new products to new customers. That is why we will always see the latest greatest new and improved gadgets trotted out every spring.

On the other hand the companies you most often hear praised on this site are one man or mom and pop operations who are passionate about thier products and care more about quality and putting thier name on something.

there will always be guys lokking for shortcuts and we probably wont win thwm over. All we can do is show them how much fun we are having and hope it catches on.

Thanks for the report Roadkill.  I didn't even know there was such a show in Reno.

I have little concern for the future of hunting. In fact, I believe there will be more hunters 10 years from now.

Habitat loss has been the greatest threat to the continued existence of ample wildlife populations ever since the abolition of market hunting about 100 years ago.

As long as kill is regulated by scientific principles, hunters and the equipment they choose to use has no negative impact on populations.

Lots of gadgets have come and many have gone. The market place, and in some cases, the FW agencies will weed em out.

The thing about the broadhead with the laser in the tip, how would it even work?  How do you sight in the laser broadhead to compensate for the arcing trajectory of an arrow?  Seems like a completely unworkable idea manufactured just to get the attention and money of people who fall for it.

QuoteOriginally posted by Izzy:
Bowhunting is going where its alway been going, further away from where it started.

With the exception of those who choose to hunt in the styles and traditions of the past its gonna keep getting further and further from the beginning..

Well said,my thoughts exactly.They used to teach archery in High School, now your lucky if the kids can spell archery(no kid left behind if they know it or not).

QuoteOriginally posted by maineac:
If lazer projecting broadheads get guys shooting bows, great.  Think about all the guys on this site who have come to trad after shooting compounds for years.    I think it would make me never release an arrow.  I bet my dot would be swinging all over the place.  The side of the deer would look like a Pink Floyd concert.

:biglaugh:  
+1

I'm glad that some of us (TGers, and others who like to use trad equipment) are still getting the job done without wheels, releases, laser sights (and now Broadheads??!!??   :banghead: ) rangefinders, etc, etc, ad nauseum. I'll just keep on being a dinosaur, shooting my longbows, wood arrows, and broadheads that you actually have to sharpen. What a concept.

I think a lot of compound hunters burn out on the all the super high adrenaline advertising and super high tech widgets after a while. I think at a point this makes some of them yearn for simplicity. I look at the member numbers here climbing quickly, and I see the guys coming into the shop looking at the used recurves and longbows. There is momentum. Of course there is the rest that seems to be eating up the newest gear and switching to crossbows. Seems to me like the best of this pool is coming over this direction (too bad we share the woods with the rest of them too.)

Then we have our challenge, a bunch of guys with 5-20 years of high tech background showing up wanting things to be simple, and immediately start asking questions about how many fps a bow will shoot and how do I keep my 350 grain arrows with vanes and a mechanical tip on them  :)  If they are here I have to assume their heart is in the right place, but they've been trained to ask the wrong questions at places like this expo.

I apologize if I mentioned any of the unmentionables, but if ever a thread would bring it out of me, this would be it.
Thom

Perhaps, as it gets harder and harder to find suitable places to hunt, trad equipment will keep archery alive.  Compound archery is all about getting from point A to point B with the least amount of variability due to human error.  That makes it less challenging, and therefore, less rewarding.  If all I had were my compound, I'd not do much archery, as I don't have many hunting opportunities, and I don't have the $$ to pay a technician to keep my bow in whiz-bang working order.  But also, I find it more rewarding to hone my abilities, even if I'm just shooting at a cardboard box in the basement, with a stickbow.  

Let's say it another way.  Just how many people would be playing basketball if there were lazer-guided magnetic balls and magnetic hoops to shoot at?

Well said Archie. A good friend once told me, 'the demise of this planet will come from the want of an easier way', and he is correct. I got away from the 200 fps wheels n pullies and the  endless bullseyes for many reasons; some being it is too easy, therein lacking any real effort or merit, and ultimately, lacking Soul. My Primitive Spirit is fulfilled when goals are achieved moreso by natural means, and not the static world of whiz-bang gadgetry only to rust at some point. I encourage the world of easy-seakers out there to pick up stick n string and share some moments with our ancestors, ancient, clean, and giving forward.

We do not own the land, we borrow it from our children.

Shame the whiz-bangers wont be reading this.

at so point archery is not much different that rifle and the archery season will turn into two seasons, 75 % traditional then they will open it to the rest for a week or so. just like rifle season. its already kind of happening here in Oregon.we have a few units that are open to tradititional only for the first few weeks of season. sad really because Im already seeing ccompound guys buying trad bows for those first to weeks but most dont practice and most of them just wing arrows out there. who know where it will end

Sad but true brother, sad but true.

It's all about making it easier, problem is before long it will be so easy it's boring.

...and without passion and earnestness.
After all, isnt that why we all joined TRAD-gang?   :)

Certain parts of the west are a different animal (pun intended) than the east.  Some game animals are concentrated in certain western areas due to habitat restrictions,which require strict regulation and allocation for permits. Think Arizona for most big game and other western states for many popular species.

With the demise of market hunting, eastern states couldn't wipe out white-tail deer if they tried. The majority of hunters (and I don't mean this as negative as it sounds) can't kill a deer every 2-3 years. Those who can only want 1.5 because that's all they can eat in a year.

It doesn't bother me that some folks choose methods that require less time to master. They expand hunter ranks and keep us all relevant to game management agencies and the public who don't want to be overrun with certain of our favorite beasties. Their "easier" choices don't make mine less difficult.

Of course organized archery is back in schools, 10,000+ of them so far and 2.3 million kids this year alone. Bigger than Little League baseball this year. Archery is one of the fastest growing sports in the U.S. and THE fastest growing shooting sport. The archery clock has been turned back about 30 years in terms of youth involvement.  Future generations will once again be able to say just what many of us 50-somthings can say,

I wish they would bring school archery up to the north east.

Eventually many good bow hunters get tired of GeeGaws,Lookthrus, Prettys and this years newest Trinkets. When they discover that they don't need all those things to be successful or get bored with their success many will switch to trad tackle.  I did.

Laser field points at 3d shoots for trad bows lol. Now that would put a mind game on compound shooters lol.

Rose City did have those longbows with bamboo.  Jerry let us shoot them.  We had to use underspined arrows, but they were well made and shot well.  We were the only ones with stick bows on the line.
Italian recurves were also well made and pretty.  We did not shoot them.  Lots of call makers were selling all manner of calls and vthe place rocked with elk, varmint squealing, turkey , duck and coyote helping.  I liked that background noise

Broad heads, not one glue on.   There are so very many kinds, all with a gimmick. I glanced, but did not hover over any as they did not apply to me.
They had the electronic archery devices.  Not one had a setup to actually shoot, but they have some great photography.

There was a guy that had shafts the diameter of my little finger.  They were for line cutting in tournaments.

Packs of all cammo's and sizes.

Not so much for out here, but for eastern hunt g, those preloaded scent points intrigued me as being something I would try.  He has all manner of scents and will have hog , elk and bear scents soon.  Check it out at racembac.com.  

Some of you may have seen a pic of a compounder with an arrow stuck in the web of Hans and thru the index finger.  They now have a Kevlar glove. The guy was jabbing the mitt with broad heads.  I hope not to shoot myself, felt I had to report.

Sights of all varieties, but I did not dwell as I did not need one on any of my longbows or recurves.

Nice to talk to Jerry at Rose City and shoot his bows, he was the only trad guy there.  He had some great insight on cedar, yesterday and today.  He has some inventory of raw wood saved up.  He had some great stories on some of the old greats of our sport.  

Targets from bags to blocks, and now special targets for xbows.  There were a few there, too.  Did you know Winchester is now in the bow business?  
Well I make no judgements.  Only report what I saw in my two days there

I do not know why a trad shooter would even go to that show by the sounds of it.  I also do not think this is a trad bow hunting thread.

lpcjon2,
I sent you a PM. I'm am getting too close to hijacking this thread but I sent you GREAT news about NJ!

Bowwild is right on about archery being popular with the kids. Thanks to him and some other dedicated people they have kids learning how fun archery is. I run an afterschool archery class at my work using NASP principles and equipment and just put in for a Olympic archery grant. One of the questions on the grant application was how many kids do you avg per class and over the last three years I averaged 14 kids per two week session and my classes run from Oct to Feb.  We are teaching them to shoot 3 under and instinctive using a compound bow that maintains a constant draw weight. I know a bunch of these kids are getting their own equipment and continuing on their archery journeys. Its a win for all of us.

How can we even debate where archery is going and sticking to an older time line on the internet with out being hypocritical.

We are as guilty of the changes in archery as anybody..

The good thing is the  good products will live the junk will die a natural death and be replaced with a new crop destine for failure next year.

It's pretty easy to look forward if we look back ward..

Just pick up the old magazines and see all the latest and greatest what nots that aren't with us today..and those that are.

Well done swp!

Xtrema , great you have an opinion, and thanks to the guys who defended us so you could.
Others appreciate knowing what is going on.  We went to order materials for all archers, recurves and longbow en, can use strings, targets, cedar shafts and such. Over ten grand this year so archers can get supplies without mail order.  Others may live in more domestic circumstances, but we have lots, measured in hundreds of miles, of space between cities.  When they come here from ranches and small towns, we like to have what they want.
We do keep kids bows braced up, and they learn on recurves. Thanks for your opinion, any complaints can be directed to the moderators,  they can pull any thread or off color remarks from the less educated or mean spirited

Xtrema,
My Buddy Skip,the op of this thread,is a LOT more diplomatic than I.Did you actually read what he posted?If not,ill give you,a rundown.We had very imformative discusions with Jerry Dishion and his wife,of Rose city archery.We hashed over subjects from Ishi to Howard Hill.We got a history lesson of Stotler archery and other notables in the archery world,some even controvercial subjects as well.We were the first to test a line of Natural materials laminated D/R bows that Jerry will be handleing for sale and i must say,they were quite nice.The folks at Ragim were friendly and informed us of the high increase in Interest and sales of traditional archery,world wide.What traditional archer,wouldnt be interested in that?

When I ran a gunshop/archeyr pro shop, and went to the trade shows every year, one thing was apparent. 75-80% of the new must have, gonna get the deer on the wall  gee whiz gadget was just junk and a gimmick. I worked hard not to buy into that stuff, but a lot of customers would ask about it, and had to order it for them.That was over 20  years ago, and I believe it gets worse every year. On a good note, I believe that these gadgets prove themselves to be just that, and folks find out in short order, and these companys are short lived, as folks have less disposable income, now more than ever. Anything that gets more hunters into the woods, even rifles and compounds are great, because then you can expose them to trad bowhunting. Here it is getting harder to get young folks away from PS@ and XBox and out to do aynthing physical.

I travel all over this country and compete in 3d and State and Local Archery shoots againist all kinds of bows and find that there are some who don't shoot trad because they don't want to invest the time. Others don't know where to start.
In the three short years I've been at this I've gone from the one asking all the questions to answering a few them.
People look at my stick and string asking why I do it that way when it is easier to do it with all new new gagets.I look at them and tell them straite that it is all about the journey.
I even win once and a while.
But the thing that pleases me the most is when they start looking to buy stick bows to start thier journey. Isn't that part of what TradGang is about?
One person says my thoughts real well here,"tradition is not the worship of ashes but the preservation of the fire."

We find the same thing.  "can I abbot that?" is often heard.  That is how to propagate our sport, not with gimmicks.  However, look at some of our sponsors' products to see how far our portion of the sport.has moved

To each his own, arrows in the 12 ring is what it is all about and most I know use minimum gimmicks

Roadkill    Thank you sir!   Ric

35% of the kids purchase their own archery equipment and 11% buy hunting licenses. This froma survey this winter by the University of Florida.

99.9% of the gimmicks and contraptions out there have nothing to do with what I consider to be bowhunting. I was walking through the archery section of a big sporting goods store yesterday and the only thing I saw that might be useable was some fletchtight and ferrule hot melt.

Like stated, the modern hunter relies on manufactured tools to replace good ole woodsman ship.

I went to the ATA show in 2011, didn't bother going this year.

Unbelieveable!  Couldn't believe everything I saw, couldn't believe how huge that show was.  Met the guy selling the laser broadheads.  He was a little put off by the hollow pointed tip of our 100 grain Talon as he thought it would infringe on his hollow pointed laser tipped broadhead patent request.  Too bad for him I already have a patent on the Talon    :D  

After talking to him a while he loosened up.  Nice enough guy, as are most that I met at the show, but in my opinion misguided.  Told me he had killed a deer with one of his broadheads by hiding behind a tree, pulling his bow back and sticking it around the tree on his right while looking around the tree on the left, lineing up the dot and letting fly.

I asked him why?  He looked at me kind of puzzled.  I said why shoot a deer like that, why not just play a video game.  We decided we didn't agree on hunting.

I think what you saw, Roadkill, is what I saw at the ATA.  The sport is now dominated by marketers.  Great marketers with bad products can make a fortune, even if the product is not a long lasting one.  In fact, I think they prefer that their products are not long lasting as they will obselete themselves with a new offering the following year, playing off the publics desire to have the newest, coolest thing.

As long as people are buying "easy" they will continue to sell it.  As long as the size of the animal is paramount to the quality of the experience, there will be gadgets that sell well.  It's a different mind set.

I remember watching an old Twilight Zone when I was a kid (loooong time ago) where a guy thought he'd died and gone to heaven.  Everything he ever wanted he had instantly.  He went to play pool and knocked in every ball on the break.  He was ecstatic.  Played again and knocked in all of the balls again.  Still smiling.  Played a third time and tried to miss the balls, after banking a couple of times the cue hit the rack and scattered all of the balls into the holes again.  He couldn't miss, literally.  Turns out he was in Hell.

"Turns put he was in hell"   lol lol lol

just saw in FB a bracket that turns your Iphone into a bow sight........Really?

gimme a break!

Is that the talk and shoot model????