What is the best way to remove a aluminum insert that was crazy glued in a carbon shaft? Someone told me to slip a drill bit and whip it forward to push the insert out. It did work but I also cracked 5 of my carbon arrows in the process. I'm so pissed.
Try putting in a field point and heating it up slowly?
Eric
If it was craz glued in then I don't know of a way to get it out besides the drill bit trick. I would try this again except try to whip it just hard enough to get the insert out. I use a heat reversible bond on all my points and inserts that way I can take them out if the shaft becomes damaged. For gluing in inserts I recommend using Bohning's Insert Iron. It creates a bond as strong as epoxy but is heat reversible.
Do NOT use heat with carbons! You can make yourself a 3 foot "ramrod" out of a strong material that just fits inside the shaft from the nock end and bang them out from the back. I know some people have had troubles with the drill bit trick and maybe it is the sharpness of the bit? I always used a smooth steel rod instead of a drill bit..Henry
Don't put heat on a carbon shaft!!!!
heat can make carbon explode or at least seperate.
I've cut the flange off with the arrow saw, and then pushed it out with a rod, but have had mixed results. I have given up wrecking arrows and just bought new ones and used those for FluFlus.
If there is a good way, I a'm too interested
You do not actually heat the shaft, You apply the heat to the field point just enough to break the glue seal on the insert.
Then the next time you reinsert them use a hot melt type glue,been doing this for long time and never had problems.
When I use the drill bit I put the blunt end that goes in the drill against the the insert. You could also dip the end of the arrow in acetone for a few minutes. With the insert being hollow if you dip in the acetone deep enough so the liquid flows up through the hole inthe insert, and possibly gets between the arrow and the insert. It may weekend the glue to be able to use the drill bit.
I did use the blunt end of the drill bit. Just don't know why it would crack the end of the carbon arrow. I did tried heating the field point but that did not work well.
I replaced the aluminum inserts with brass and used hot glue to glued down the insert. Never again will I buy arrows that has been crazy glue in.
If the glue sticks really well the carbon can be compromised with the ramrod/drill bit trick. Also you have to be careful of "mushrooming" the back of the insert from the impact. (experience talking)
If you have a vise, place a field point in the vise and heat it up really well. Then screw on the carbon shaft quickly and as the heat transfers to the insert hopefully the insert will release as you twist the carbon shaft to a seated level on the point. If after a few seconds the insert does not give way, remove, cool, and maybe try once more. Have a cup of cool water nearby to cool down the carbon. Hopefully the heat transfer will loosen the glue before the carbon heats up too much. If the insert won't budge then and you can't get it out then you have a stumping arrow.
5 cracked??? I might have stopped after the second cracked arrow but I admire your determination.
I've had them crack with the heat method too. Guess there is no perfect way.
Maybe deep freezing them will break the bond? It sure works when you accidently epoxy a rifle into its stock.....don't ask.
QuoteOriginally posted by killinstuff:
5 cracked??? I might have stopped after the second cracked arrow but I admire your determination.
I've had them crack with the heat method too. Guess there is no perfect way.
I didn't know they were cracked until I installed the new inserts. I checked them individual by eye and didn't see any hair line cracks.
When I used super glue I couldn't keep my inserts in. Shoot them into a half rotten stump a few times and they will come out on their own.LCH
QuoteOriginally posted by oops sorry:
Maybe deep freezing them will break the bond? It sure works when you accidently epoxy a rifle into its stock.....don't ask.
I have often wondered that myself but haven't had a chance to try it.I did try the heated field point thing once and ruined a couple arrows.Getting a good epoxy hot enough to dissolve,assuming it is well bonded and these were,puts too much heat right against the carbon.
I really don't like to put heat on carbons.Thankfully,after a few years of using carbons,I can pick the right shaft,cut and glue in an insert and start tuning.
The drill bit method sounds pretty good and I just wonder if combining over night freezing before using the drill bit wouldn't help?
If I'm shortening the shaft I just cut it first, then use my torch to get the insert out of the remnant. That way there's no heat on the shaft.
I have used a drill that fits in the shaft and I use the blunt end and use a slight whipping/bouncing motion to drive the drill into the insert and with the blunt action and force it will drive the insert out..you dont have to go full force..I bounce it about 5 times to get the glue to break and then I increase the motion slightly harder and then it will come out all the way or leave a little to grab the pliers and do a twisting motion and all done..just clean up the glue and your back in business...I have used this on about 500 carbons and never damage one yet on shafts that used all types of glues...when I used heat on field tips..it was hit or miss at times..I ruined more shafts that way as alot of times you need to heat the heck out of the point to break the seal..you might get the insert out but now the tip of the carbon is weakend or melted
I tried the drill bit trick for the first time two weeks ago. My shafts had been out in the cold garage and the first time it did indeed split the carbon shaft at the point end. I was using a drill bit that was pretty loose inside the shaft too. I had to swing the bit/shaft combo probably twenty times before the insert came out. So the next time, I brought the shafts inside the house and let them sit overnight so everything (shaft, glue, insert) would be room temp. I then used a drill bit that was a better fit for the inside the shaft. I figure if it's too small of a bit then it might transfer the energy sideways and thus cracking the shaft. No idea if that is true or not, but it sounded good. Anyway, that second attempt with room temp shafts and a bigger bit worked like a charm. Only had to swing the shaft twice and it came out. Of course the downside was that the insert came out 100 mph and bounced off of everything in my shop before stopping. Lol! Be careful. I would suggest wearing eye protection and don't swing the shaft towards a window or other people. Seriously, it came out like a bullet. I was probably swinging way too hard and won't do that next time, but just be warned.
If all else fails, I figure it's a good excuse to just buy and make up some new arrows. Lol!
Buy a piece of all thread from the hardware store longer than the arrow(and diameter so it fits in the shaft) and slide it in and tap the end with a hammer.
BreakfastBoy, what do you mean by"swinging" the shaft and are you talking about a bit to fit the insert and not the shaft?? Thanks, George
The drill bit fitted perfect inside that shaft. I swing the arrow shaft like I was casting a fishing rod. It took 10-15 tries before it popped loose. I think I'm going to try the all thread instead.
I heat the field point with a small propane torch while it is screwed in the insert. But I do not snug the field point down. I only screw it in 2/3rds of the way to prevent wayward flames and keep the direct heat off the carbon. After the heat transfer, I screw down the point tight with my Leatherman, wait a second or two and the insert comes free. Been doing it for a while with no side effects.
Been using the heated field point for years. I would not suggest you do it willy nilly, but in a pinch it works.
I would say I damage maybe one arrow out of a dozen doing this.
I have done it on Grizzly sticks, GT, and Beemans. Occasionally on GT you will get a sliver of carbon rap on the internal surface that frays at the tip at the tip.
USE CAUTION and be patient. Use just a little heat at a time and check, with a twist. More heat, 5 second wait, check with a twist.
Once the first one releases, you'll have a good idea on the amount of heat it takes and the process speeds up.
QuoteOriginally posted by mongoose:
BreakfastBoy, what do you mean by"swinging" the shaft and are you talking about a bit to fit the insert and not the shaft?? Thanks, George
Like Bolo7735 mentioned, I swing the shaft like a fishing rod. And the bit fits down into the shaft, from the nock end (just pull your nock out and slip the bit inside). You will have to hold our hand over the nock end so the bit doesn't fall out on the back swing, but you can let go when you swing the shaft forward with the other hand.
I think I'll try to get some all thread and nock it out that way. Seems safer than the drill bit and swinging idea.
It's not the heat, but the rate of heat that is critical.
Hold the field point in a vice grip, heat it quite hot, then screw in while pulling out with as much force as you can manage. You really need a partner to do it well.
The idea is to get the heat to affect the glue before it affects the glue holding the carbon fibers together.
I've done a lot of them and never hurt the shaft.
Slowly heating the tip while in the insert is not as effective since the heat gets to the glue of the shaft.
Amazingly enough the coefficient of thermal expansion is very high for the aluminum insert and near zero for carbon composites....there is an excellant reason to try cooling the shafts. The insert will shrink away from the shafting at the same time that the glue goes below its glass transition temperature. So maybe a deep freeze or dry ice. If you ever epoxy a match rifle into its stock, overnight in the deep freeze and it pops right out. I see no reason that won't work here. but hey, ymmv