I would post this on the Hill thread but there is to much to keep up with on there.
For you fellas that have owned both what do you think.Handshock plus or minus and accurracy and smooth of draw.Thanks,RC.
I will be watching this. I NEED A HILL!
RC, cool post. I do not know if others will agree with me but I will post my take on string follow. I have owned a Hill Cheetah with a very slight back set. I have shot plain straight as well. My Shelton from Northern Mist is a string follow bow.
First relative to noise, all have been very quiet. However, I believe the string follow to be the quietest significantly although I have no data yet as to decible levels.
Second, I do not notice any accuracy difference.
Third, as to smoothness of draw/release. I notice a big difference. The bow is much smoother at the beginning of the draw and seems easier upon release in my opinion, others my disagree, but for me it is very easy on my joints. I have a bad elbow and the string follow is very easy on my body. I think because it is so smooth on relaese, I may shoot it better than a straight or back set bow. However, this is an opinion, I have no data for this either.
Lastly, as to preformance, I notice no difference other than the bow is quieter and has NO hand shock. My Hill was smooth and not real shocky, just a mild thump. My string follow Shelton has none. It has less hand shock than my Deathwish and it is an R/D longbow.
I can not really think of any cons RC.
So, I love the stringfollow. It is quiet, smooth "unshocky" and shoots jsut as hard as a stright stick.
Bob.
RC, I really like a deflexed bow, referred to as "string follow", in a glass lam bow. It feels gentler in the hand after the shot and gives better shooting qualities similar to how a reverse handle bow acts. A well built deflexed bow will have good early string weight too. I cannot really feel or see any noticeable speed differences, but then again I am not looking for speed. The accuracy I can have is what I am after. Hope this helps.
X's 2 what Bob said.
All but one(Keeper Kat,Hill Cheetah 66") of my other bows have been replaced with string follow bows.
The one coming from Sunset Hill is also a string follow as will be my "Expedition" from Miller.(long time off yet)
It never hurts to dream a little and maybe skip a meal or two to pay for it...lol
God bless,Mudd
What Bob says is right.
They draw very smooth but feels different because of the lower tension at brace height. The draw starts soft and is a steady weight gain.
The release is where they realy shine. Once the string leaves the fingers you feel nothing, no thump, no nothing. And they are selfbow quiet.
I've noticed no sacrafice in performance from what I can tell. They push my heavy arrows just as well as my straight limb bows.
Like Bob, my stringfollow bow is a Northern Mist Shelton. I've never shot a Hill SF bow so cant compare the 2. I belive David Mitchell has Hill and Northern Mist SF bows so hpoefully he will add some of his insight.
Here is a Shelton, left, and a Classic. Steve puts just a hair of reflex in the Classic.
My 2 cents, a well made string follow bow is as good it gets. Eric
(http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h121/mandoman_2006/Northern%20Mist%20bows/P7270017.jpg)
I have 2 string follow bows....a Hill and a Apex Predator Cumberland. Compared to straight or slightly reflexed bows I think the string follow bows are smoother to draw and very easy to make silent, or real close to silent. Both are good shooters, the Hill Half Breed is 66" and the Apex is 68". I like the string follow design a lot!! :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
The Stringfollow is gentler in the hand, quieter, and more accurate for me. Performance does not suffer unless your comparing to a significantly backset one to one that has considerable string-follow. Most are 7/8" either way.
If you shoot arrows that are on the heavier side, 10gpp and up you might as well get the backset one, The arrow weight will dampen the bow nicely. If you shoot arrows on the lighter side of 8-9gpp, the gentle shooting characteristics of the string follow will be a welcome addition to your shooting experience.
Exactly what Bob B. said. I could not have said it better.
Especially that part about being easier on the body. I have a bad elbow and a flaky drawing shoulder. I could shoot my Shelton all day long, no problem. I foolishly sold mine awhile back, but as soon as finances permit I'll get another.
Everyone is talking about the positives of the string follow design, but nobody mentions the negatives. If anybody finds any, let me know because I haven't! I'm sure there are faster bow designs than the Hill style (Kanatis certainly are), but few shooters of Hill style bows are concerned with speed.
The aspect I most enjoy about my Shelton is how quiet it is. It is by far the quietest bow I have shot. I suspect the string follow design is a contributing factor.
Exactally, when you consider that a lot of arrows out of a 45# bows, kill and blow through tons of stuff, then the whopping 2-4fps loss from a backset bow seems pretty insignificant.
These posts make me wonder why so many R/D bows are out there. I need to shoot a Shelton one of these day.
Well here is my experience.
I have a few straight limb (Hill and Schulz bows), one string follow (NM Shelton) and one backset (Howatt). The bow with the heavy backset is the fastest Hill I own but is far short of being called smooth by any stretch of the word. While I personally have never noticed hand shock or felt anything near what others have voiced about Hill longbows, this one just shoots rough.
The Shelton is smooth, quiet, fast and accurate. Like others have said I can't say I notice anything negative about the bow or design.
Now, my straight limb hills are pretty much the same. Quiet as death, accurate and for me no noticeable hand shock. With that said, my Osage hill is deader on release due to the added heft of the Osage, where the bamboo and myrtle bows are lighter and there is a slight thump on release.
Still I prefer the straight limb bows but I think this is more of a nostalgia thing rather than a distinct advantage. When I ordered my latest bow from Steve at Northern Mist we talked about it for a bit and somewhat mutually decided to build a classic rather than a Shelton but it was so close a coin toss could have decided just as accurately which to go with.
Stringfollow, the way to go. :thumbsup:
I am glad to see all these positive comments about string follow bows. I have a Shelton on order from Steve and this makes me all the more anxious to get it. Supposed to be done in May or June, I'm ready now.
Three David Miller longbows, 1-straight limb all bamboo, string follow, very mild, 66" 56# @ 27". 1-backed bamboo Hawk, string follow, 67" 57# @ 27", and a 1-backed bamboo Hawk with more string follow, 65 1/2" 60# @ 27".
All are extremely quiet, smooth with no handshock and good performance. The shorter bow with the most string follow will stack the last inch at 3#.
String follows do not require string silencers, and are as quiet as an R&D with them. They are not as fast as a 62" 54# @ 28' Purist Longbow (R&D) by Robertson Stykbow, but smoother and more quiet. They carry a very low string 5-3/4" with the feathers touching the rest.
They are only slightly smoother, and quieter than my Old Tom, glass 68" 64# @ 27" longbow with 1/2 inch backset. The latter is maybe faster, and just as accurate.
The disadvantages of any string follow is the sense that it stacks. It is possible because they are sooo smooth to start, very little tension on the string and therefore, they reach the peak weight in a shorter distance.
The other thing about all Bamboo, other laminated bows without glass, or self-bows is they are draw length specific, if it is made for a 26", or 27" draw, drawing it another 1 or 2 inches will eventually ruin the bow.
I have a Hill style from John McDonald that has extreme reflex that's very fast, but isn't very well mannered. I also have a NM Baraga and a Shelton. I haven't shot any of the other Hill brands listed above. The Shelton is the easiest shooting, smoothest and most accurate bow I've ever shot. The bow feels much lighter in draw weight than it's listed and my only regret is that I should have ordered it a little heavier. Of my Northern Mist longbows the Baraga's probably slightly faster than the Shelton but it's very close, and hard to tell when shooting. I picked up both bows at Steve's shop and shot both through his chronograph, and the Baraga was 4-5fps faster with the same arrows, but the Baraga is also 5lbs heavier in draw weight. However to get the Baraga to shoot as quiet as the Shelton I have to go up in arrow weight, which cancels any speed difference. For me both bows are great shooters but the Shelton is more enjoyable to shoot and more consistently accurate. I hate to use this word but it's almost mindless accuracy. With the Baraga I have to pay a little more attention to my release and shooting form; with the Shelton it's always there, regardless of what I do.
Dave
RC I'd be interested in what your thoughts are now after all of the responses written here.
Inquiring minds want to know...lol
Thank you!
God bless,Mudd
As Westbrook said, I have both NM and Hill string follow bows as well as both brands in the slight back set models. In the photo you can see that with the Hill (on the right) there is not much string follow. The Northern Mist Shelton has noticeably more. Due to that, I think, the Hills in string follow are essentially no different--to me-- than regular Hills with slight back set. The Shelton is the smoothest drawing and shooting bow of the lot, but the difference I see/feel is not much. In fact, with my most recent acquisition from Steve I went back to the Classic. They all are sweet, enjoyable shooters. They will all shoot far, far better than I can :D , and the performance differences are not that noticeable--to me. Of all my bows, I give Steve's Shelton the edge in most areas--ease and smoothness of draw, quietness, pleasant shooting characterisitcs all the way around--but not by much.
One thing I have found--when I order a bow from Steve, I know exactly what I'm going to get as he always makes it "perzactly" to my specs. With Hills, I have ordered three new ones--none came in just as I had ordered in some respect--in every case heavier than ordered/marked by at least 4#, and one grip a good bit larger than ordered. That weight thing bugs me.
Here are the Hill Big Five string follow and Shelton side by side unstrung to show the difference in degree of follow.
(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy241/davidmitchell_6466/Hill%20string%20follow/BigFivestringfollow005.jpg)
Nah, nevermind.
Dave, that Shelton is a pretty bow. What woods? Do you have any other pics of it?
WOW! What an excellent thread. Very educational. I thank you all.
Shick
Thanks for all the info, I have a Miller on order and I think its going to be stringfollow.
John49, the limbs on this Shelton are stained American elm, riser is cocobolo.
(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy241/davidmitchell_6466/Brown%20Shelton/Salebows011.jpg)
(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy241/davidmitchell_6466/Brown%20Shelton/Salebows009.jpg)
(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy241/davidmitchell_6466/Brown%20Shelton/Salebows007.jpg)
(http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy241/davidmitchell_6466/Brown%20Shelton/Salebows008.jpg)
I have a all bamboo Apex Predator Cumberland with black glass and it is the most forgiving bow i have ever owned. I have shot my highest score in a 3-D tournament with it. The slight string follow design in the cumberland is a pleasure to shoot and it has plenty of speed a very easy bow to shoot
This thread is a conspiracy to make me order a NM Shelton
:bigsmyl: Yep, you are correct shortlongbow!
Thanks David. Very nice. I agree with Shortlongbow about the conspiracy and its working.
Of the SF glass bows I have shot, the NM was my favorite. I truly have noticed no advantage over the backset, and I tried to notice! Different draw, but slower(although not by much) and I didn't notice accuracy changes over standard backset.
The bow that IMO absolutely changes things more dramatically is the reverse handle by NM(never shot one from HH). Noticeably more accurate and still good arrow velocity. Ugly, strange at first, but a great twist on a Hill style longbow. Great to shoot with gloves on and so hard to torque. My dad has a bad wrist and torques standard hill bows, for years now he only shoots the whisper because his grasp of the bow is less meaningful. I only wish the shelf was cut a touch more to center, which I am sure is a custom touch any bowyer would do.
I have seen a ton of pics with Howard with glass and reverse handle bows, but mostly older pics pre-glass with the string follow bows, a few with glass I have seen at shows.
Thanks Guys. I`ve bout decided on a Tembo string follow. Now I gotta come to grips on the....grip.I like the locator...I like the straight but shoot the dished maybe a tad better....RC
If you are gonna order a string-follow, you should get the NM Shelton for $20 more RC and you could get it with either the locator grip or the dished....
I guess it just depends on how fast you want to get that string-follow in your hands....
Keep the wind in your face!
Shoot straight, Shinken
:archer2:
my Northern Mist Shelton is the smoothest bow i have ever owned, definitly feel the difference in the begining of the draw. extremly quiet and Steve is a top notch guy!
Since starting to build selfbows, string follow seems to be a natural trend. So far, I find them easier to string using the push/pull method, easier to draw, very quiet release and still lots of "oomph"
imho, a lot of the function and performance of a hill-style longbow hasta do with the longbow's design and the bowyer and the materials.
i've had all three types - backset, straight and bellyset (string follow). overall, the backset typically adds some speed, the string follow adds some "stability".
any limb design can be made harsh, stacky, stiff, shocky - again, look to the bowyer, design and materials.
my primary hill-style is a 69" david miller with backset, and it's every bit as smooth and stable as was my (rip) 70" hill tembo with string follow, only the miller is easily faster (both, very near the same digitally measured holding weight, with the miller being a bit lighter).
You know how every once in a while you see a bow and it hits you like "Wow, for me and my needs that might just be the perfect bow"? David Mitchell, that NM Shelton is a gorgeous bow and that length, weight, design, woods, all look perfect to me. Congrats on having a great one!
It almost looks like a tiny piece of short deer hair as a strike plate, can I ask what it really is?
Thom
Thom it's just a piece of brown suede leather that came on the bow--not deer hide. I had a Shelton on order a couple of years ago and found the one pictured on Steve's rack at the Baltimore shoot and just took it instead. I decided that I liked it better than the one Steve was going to make me.
RC I think you will be successful with whatever bow you chose but if any of the bowyers are acquainted with your exploits they'll just want to build you a bow so it could get shown off in your "hero shots".
I think it would be like putting money in their pocket...lol
God bless,Mudd
Optical illusion, it sure looks like fine hair running downward and slightly the wrong direction. If I had one on order and then laid my eyes on that I'd think I'd do the same!
I think you've got a great point there Roy!
Thom
QuoteRC I think you will be successful with whatever bow you chose but if any of the bowyers are acquainted with your exploits they'll just want to build you a bow so it could get shown off in your "hero shots".
Mudd, aint that the truth!
Eric
I haven't shot as many Hill style longbows as some folks here but I've owned 5 or 6 different ones. Three were reflexed and carbon backed, one was a reflexed-reverse handle, a straight bow and my newest, a Whippenstick Classic string follow.
The carbon backed reflex bows(66"-67") were definitely the quickest but had a lot of taper in both width and thickness. They didn't jar your hand much but they had a definite bump at the bottom. They also were a little twitchy and started to stack just a hair at 28". Good bows that I really liked to shoot.
The reverse handled reflex was a beast. Dang thing was ridiculously slow and quite literally hurt my hand when I shot it. That one hit the road very quickly. The straight bow was decent but also had a fair amount of handshock. Relatively smooth and had pretty good cast.
My newest, the Whippenstick Classic, is a string follow longbow. Out of the various Hill style bows I've owned I can say this one is the best I've shot, IMO. It's very soft on the draw and there is a very, very mild bump on release. It is extremely quiet and the speed is pretty good. It's not as quick as the carbon backed Hill-styles I previously owned but it isn't far behind and the manners are much nicer. It's actually quicker than other Hill-styles I've owned all things being equal.
I think much of the difference between them depends on the bowyer building them but I do know that I'm going to be ordering more of these string follows from my favorite bowyer. I really enjoy shooting them. Mine is so smooth and easy to shoot and so quiet. I can easily overlook the speed difference between this and the hybrids I normally shoot for the simple enjoyment and satisfaction of shooting a very simple design.
I think,
That to experience,the benefits,of string follow,it must not be less than an inch.Any less than that,and youd be better off with a straight or reflexed bow.
QuoteOriginally posted by Shinken:
If you are gonna order a string-follow, you should get the NM Shelton for $20 more RC and you could get it with either the locator grip or the dished....
X2, I would give Steve a call.
Curious - are these glass laminated string follow bows glued up that way or somehow became that way?
Thanx
Z - there glued up that way.
Eric
Thanx Eric
Not meaning to be contrary, but agreeing with Overspined, the most dramatic"feel" if you will, came when I shot Steve's Whisper. There is no question that the Shelton is smooth and forgiving, but the Whisper's reverse handle design places your hand in a position in relationship to the limbs that is quite dramatic. The Whisper is built identical to the Classic except as a reverse handle. All that being said, I can assure you any of Steve's bows are "shooters".
Bob Wesley ordered me a big 5 at my request when I went to his school. It wasto be made for me but it would be built the way he likesthem 70 inches builton the strait form. I think now that it is the ideal compromise for stability and speed.in a hill bow.the string follow bow and iv had two did not shoot any better for me. The newer hybrids are actually a lot faster at the same weights.if you can call 20 ftpersec a lot.what's that saying beware the man who only owns 1 bow because probably can really shoot it.Imho.
QuoteOriginally posted by Shinken:
If you are gonna order a string-follow, you should get the NM Shelton for $20 more RC and you could get it with either the locator grip or the dished....
I guess it just depends on how fast you want to get that string-follow in your hands....
:archer2:
I've been following this thread with interest as I am making many of the same decisions on getting a new Hill style bow. What is the difference in wait time?
Thanks.
Kevin
I think you can get a Hill in 4-6 weeks? maybe quicker?
Northern Mist is out about 9 months.
Not sure how much help Craig has besides himself and Jason.
Steve Turay is a one man shop.
Both have bows instock, somethin you might like. I know Steve is Alabama for the big shoot this weekend so you wont be able to reach him till later next week.
Eric
RC- lots of good advice here, and my experience echoes what has already been written but I have sold all my string follow bows and have stuck to the straight limbs because to me the differences in the two designs were minimal.
I'd have to agree with Mudd though, I think you will be sucessful with whatever you decide. Heck I think you could kill something with a tree limb and a piece of rope :biglaugh:
it will be a hard decision on weather i get a sunset hill or a hill .they are both suberb bows there just isnt a lot of difference in the top of line bows.there was a guy in alabama who won the hhill when jerry ran it he was shooting an old herters with a twisted limb.its not the bow but the man behind it.or women.
QuoteOriginally posted by WESTBROOK:
I think you can get a Hill in 4-6 weeks? maybe quicker?
Northern Mist is out about 9 months.
Not sure how much help Craig has besides himself and Jason.
Steve Turay is a one man shop.
Both have bows instock, somethin you might like. I know Steve is Alabama for the big shoot this weekend so you wont be able to reach him till later next week.
Eric
Thanks, Eric.
Robert,
I built my first string follow bow about 25-30 years ago and prefer them to just about any other style longbow.
I spent many years with laminated bamboo covered with fiberglass and enjoyed every minute as well as taking many pieces of big game with them.
For a while now I've been using laminated bamboo string follow longbows without fiberglass. Natural bamboo for a back.
For my purposes I find that the bamboo with no glass surpasses most other longbows of the Hill style. They are smoother in the hand at the shot, draw sweetly when built long enough, give up very little in speed when using decent weights (50+ lbs.} and they are almost always deadly silent with normal arrow weights.
Oh my Charlie!!
Please post up a few pictures of your all "naturals"!
Please, please, please!!!!!!!!!! :archer:
I think there is quite a difference between a string follow bow that is designed and built to your draw as a string follow, and a bow that is just reversed in the form to make it a string follow. I still like them all tho...
:) :thumbsup:
Careful there, Mudd! You want to catch another "bow virus"??? Looking at one may be all you need to get pushed over the edge. :biglaugh:
QuoteOh my Charlie!!
Please post up a few pictures of your all "naturals"!
X2, Please Do!
I agree Tim, with any custom bow for that matter, Should be built for the best performance for YOU.
Eric
He he I like that bow viris! ! I cant afford to get it.
He he I like that bow viris! ! I cant afford to get it.
OK guys, help me out here. I have had 2 "D" bows and shot them both more accurately than anything else. One had a straight grip and the other a VERY MILD locator grip. Both hurt my wrist. Neither "kicked like a mule", but after a dozen arrows I always had pain in my arthritic wrist that I dont get from my r/d longbows with "medium" grips.
Aside from the asthetic pains it would cause some people, would I be able to get the things I like about a straight or string follow bow with a handle that is just a bit more "medium" wrist?
I just got back from Alabama compton's. Steve was there, and he has some SF bows already made up.....just sayin'
QuoteOriginally posted by Charlie Lamb:
Robert,
I built my first string follow bow about 25-30 years ago and prefer them to just about any other style longbow.
I spent many years with laminated bamboo covered with fiberglass and enjoyed every minute as well as taking many pieces of big game with them.
For a while now I've been using laminated bamboo string follow longbows without fiberglass. Natural bamboo for a back.
For my purposes I find that the bamboo with no glass surpasses most other longbows of the Hill style. They are smoother in the hand at the shot, draw sweetly when built long enough, give up very little in speed when using decent weights (50+ lbs.} and they are almost always deadly silent with normal arrow weights.
I would like to know more about these all natural bows i.e. where can you get them, etc.
I'm with the others...want to see some pics!
Did Charlie,ever post pics of his Bamboo string follow bows?If so,where can i see them?