I need some help. This has been a nightmare trying to tune my 45#@28 Grizzly. My drawlength is 29". Arrows are 30 7/8" Easton Gamegetter 2016 (500 spine). I've tried different braceheights, point weights up to 200gr and nockheight all the way up to 3/4. I can see a difference in arrow flight depending on nock point, but can never get the nockhigh flight to go away. I've been trying to tune this thing for a few weeks and do not know what else to do. I know my form is not the best, but I can get good arrow flight from the same arrows out of my Black Bear 40# bow. Shooting 3 under. Any ideas? Do I just set it to where its shooting the best? I'm kinda anal about things and want to get this thing tuned correctly, it's gonna be my hunting bow so I think it needs to be tuned to shoot broadheads accurately.
Wes,Bare shafting can be very frustrating. When using a bare shaft little things like your release make a lot of difference.
I'd suggest stepping back and trying paper tuning and go back and forth. I paper tune with a fletched arrow.
The easy way is to use a cardboard box, cut out a window in the bottom and tape newspaper over the hole.
Shoot from about 15 feet.
There is another thread here about paper tuning that has excellent info.
Ron
I normally paper tuned my bows when I was shooting compounds, seemed a lot easier to tune a compound for some reason. I've having a lot of trouble with the recurve though. I'll try it and see what happens.
At that length a 2016 is probably a little weak. I would move nock to where you get best flight, probably somewhere around a 1/2". then go down in point weight or increase arrow spine or twist up string to increase brace height. I have had bows that I never could bare shaft or paper tune to perfection, but broadhead point of impact was good and really thats what matters
I get good left to right arrow flight from what I can tell. I don't suspect them to be weak, but at this point I'm willing to try anything.
try larger fletching. A big rudder can help a lot.
Drop the head weight to 150 and see what happens.
Since you are shooting 3 under, have you tried your nock point at 7/8"? I know you mentioned 3/4. When I shot 3 under, my nock point was at 7/8" above center for good arrow flight.
Gringol, I'm Bareshafting so that wouldn't help much on tuning. If anything it would just "mask" the problem.
Jon, I've tried all different size points from 125-200 gr
Shedrock- when I get up to 3/4 it gets worse, they fly best around 1/2, but still nock high a good bit
do you have nock point under shaft .it helps my tuning issues
Inconsistant finger pressure.Bow w/ certain amount of finger pinch can be the cause
I do have 2 nock points. The thing is I can shoot my other Bear and can get good arrow flight. Is there someone in GA that I could take it to that could be of any help? Maybe someone with a little more knowledge than me.
one of the reason i suggest weak spine is the fact that they tune well out of lower poundage bow. And a string nock under shaft may help. I havee seen this fix your issue before sometimes the nock will slide down the string a little when released
Stick a rest on it!
I don't believe you would be getting a false nock high reading at 3/4 or even 1/2" above center. I don't know what to really suggest except maybe try some different arrows. There are some bow and arrow combinations that just won't work together for a particular archer.
I was hoping I wouldnt have to go with different arrows, but may be my only option at this point. Thanks for everyones suggestions.
QuoteOriginally posted by AMB:
Stick a rest on it!
Do you think that will make a difference? I guess with shooting 3 under it would make the tiller a little better. I don't mind a little nock high, and I know that it's preffered, but my arrows are diving low. More than I think they should.
I just re-read your initial post and found that you are trying to watch the way your bareshaft flies in order to be in tune. I don't suggust this as it is incredibly hard to shoot a bareshaft perfectly straight all the time. I would use O.L. Adcock's method of bare shaft tuning by which you tune according to how your bareshafts group with your fletched shafts.
sometimes you cant get rid of it I got one like that . if it flys good with feathers dont worry to much
I posted a few weeks back about a similar problem I was having, Spine looked good but I just couldn't find a good nock height.
I finally resolved it by setting the knock height to where I had the best flight. Then I dropped my brace height all the way down and worked my way up in tiny 1/8" increments. Once I found the sweet spot for brace height I fine tuned the knock point a little more.
The bow I was tuning just had a very small sweet spot and didn't give much indication I was close when I was making larger adjustments. 1/8" off with this bow on something and arrows go bouncing.
I would think 2016's cut to 30 7/8" would be weak for that bow. At a 29" draw length I'd start by cutting them down to at least 30 1/2" and putting 125gr field pts on them. If you wanted more tip weight I'd go to a heavier spined shaft.
QuoteOriginally posted by WJackson11x:
QuoteOriginally posted by AMB:
Stick a rest on it!
Do you think that will make a difference? I guess with shooting 3 under it would make the tiller a little better. I don't mind a little nock high, and I know that it's preffered, but my arrows are diving low. More than I think they should. [/b]
Just try one! ;)
First of all, a little nock high while bare shafting is ok. If you see the shaft kicking up and down when feathers are on the shaft, then you have a real problem. Some bows will never be rid of nock high, if the tiller is off, it is going to happen and you can not correct it. Check the tiller.
You may be over-analyzing this. If bareshafting worked so good, no one would use fletching. Just put some feathers on those arrows and get shooting. The beauty of Trad shooting is that you are 99% of the problem but also the solution. Let the wood fly bro.
You may be over-analyzing this. If bareshafting worked so good, no one would use fletching. Just put some feathers on those arrows and get shooting. The beauty of Trad shooting is that you are 99% of the problem but also the solution. Let the wood fly bro.
Assuming you are right handed, do you cant your bow alot when you shoot? If so some of the nock high could be weak spine. If thats the case try shooting straight up and see what happens. My first step in bareshafting is watching arrow flight and getting close,taking into account the cant of my bow, then I go to the Adcock method, works for me.
I agree with with AMB, an elevated rest will most likely get rid of your problems. On my metal riser bows with a NAP centerest flipper I can get perfectly level bareshafts with no problems. I have another recurve that I shoot off the shelf and I've tried everything short of an elevated rest, and I still can't get the bareshaft nock high out of it. It can be very frustrating, I know.
QuoteOriginally posted by AMB:
QuoteOriginally posted by WJackson11x:
QuoteOriginally posted by AMB:
Stick a rest on it!
Do you think that will make a difference? I guess with shooting 3 under it would make the tiller a little better. I don't mind a little nock high, and I know that it's preffered, but my arrows are diving low. More than I think they should. [/b]
Just try one! ;) [/b]
A couple bucks for a Bear weatherest! I had a Hummingbird that gave me the same problem. Put a weatherest on it and I was good to go!
I have had bows that bare shafted perfect and others that I could not get rid of nock high no matter what.
Shoot from long distance (40yds +), watch flight. If it looks good put broad heads on and shoot. If they group together you are good to go.
http://www.kustomkingarchery.com/Traditional-Rest/productinfo/1227/
The pic above is of a leather strike plate.
Picture speaks a thousand words.Consider that the age of the bow may lend itself to negative limb timing. I have not heard of factory standard tillering being 3 fingers under for this make of bow, so I ASSUME it may not be positive choice. Try it but the pressure on the lower limb may bring more noise to your release.best wishes.
Put a second nock locator on your string, about 1/8" below your arrow nock. See if it allows you to bare shaft tune easier.
QuoteOriginally posted by Jason R. Wesbrock:
Put a second nock locator on your string, about 1/8" below your arrow nock. See if it allows you to bare shaft tune easier.
Agree with Jason. Upward finger pressure causes my arrows to kick up regardless of nock height shooting 3 under. Try the 2 nocking points and pick up the string 1/4 inch below the arrow and see if the kick goes away. If so just serve an extra long and thick lower nocking point to keep finger pressure off the arrow. Helps me anyway.
Thanks for everyone's suggestions and comments. The more I think about it, I think that I may be overanalyzing it just a bit. I guess my OCD is making this a nightmare. I shot some today and I've got my fletched arrows flying good. Good flight all the way to 40yds(the farthest I went). I'm gonna shoot my broadheads tomorrow and tune accordingly. This is how I have always tuned compounds and always get perfect bullet holes through paper afterwards. This trad thing is a bit different and I'm new to it. I'll post back after I shoot broadheads and let ya know what I find. Thanks again for all the help. This place is great!
Wes, I was having the same problem recently. Are your nocks loose on the string? I also shoot three under and as some have suggested, also had a second nock under the arrow. I could not get away from the nock high tear. What I found was my nocks were loose on the string and even with the second locator nock, the arrow was evidently sliding down the string after release and striking the plate. New serving solved my problem. You would think moving both nocks up the string far enough would take care of this but it didn't. I am getting perfect holes now. Hope this helps.
Yes my nocks are fairly loose, but hold on if they're turned upside down. They easily move on the serving and I do use a second string nock. I'll take that into consideration.
I am so glad to find this thread. I'm not alone! Spent over 4 hours the other day trying to resolve this same issue. Went from 3/4 all the way down to 1/8 and then started again, Finally ran out of time and had to quit feeling rather annoyed and disgusted. This gives me new hope and at least somewhere to start when I get back at it tomorrow.
QuoteOriginally posted by WJackson11x:
Thanks for everyone's suggestions and comments. The more I think about it, I think that I may be overanalyzing it just a bit. I guess my OCD is making this a nightmare. I shot some today and I've got my fletched arrows flying good. Good flight all the way to 40yds(the farthest I went). I'm gonna shoot my broadheads tomorrow and tune accordingly. This is how I have always tuned compounds and always get perfect bullet holes through paper afterwards. This trad thing is a bit different and I'm new to it. I'll post back after I shoot broadheads and let ya know what I find. Thanks again for all the help. This place is great!
The fun part is shooting, not tuning (at least for me). A compound is a machine, so it can be tuned to perfection. The biggest variable in a trad bow is you, and being human you are by definition imperfect. For me, the best time spent getting arrows flying true is time spent on my form. I find that a can grab a handful of mismatched arrows (different lengths, weights, fletching syle/size) and when I shoot them I can't really tell the difference. There are slight differences, but I can hit a 4" target at 20 yards with all of them. When I get the occasional flier it is always my fault. Just my 2 cents...
Keep shooting!
I am not an expert on the subject, this is only what I found in my case...
My nocking point was too high causing the tail of my arrow to "bounce" off of the shelf upon release.
My drawing elbow was too high causing me to to put more pressure on my ring finger and sort of twist the string upwards during the draw.
Dropping said ring finger off of the string before release and holding with only two fingers helped it as well.
Bear in mind that these were my problems and solutions to them in my case. They may be masking other tuning issues as I am as far from an expert as you can get. Lowering my nock point and lowering my elbow along with reducing pressure on my ring finger (which I am using again) have cleaned up my arrow fight alot.
On other thing that helped initially was holding my string perfectly level and hanging my arrow off of it and setting the clearance between it and the shelf for a true 1/4 inch to start. The necked down nocks set the arrow at a higher nock point than intended since they are not 5/16" thick like a 2016 shaft.
Good luck and I hope this helps in some way.
Wes, Let us know if you figure something out. You've got a lot of info to work with. It'll be interesting to see how you make out.
Due to the weather today (rain) I was unable to shoot. Gonna shoot some tomorrow and see what I come up with.
Update-- I went out today and decided to shoot my broadheads (Woodsman 125gr-3blade). Arrows flew perfect and broadheads/fieldpoints hit in same spot. Such a relief that tuning is over. I set my bareshafts where they would fly the best(still nock high) as many suggested. Here is a pic. Shots were at 20 yds and for me , this is a pretty good group. The one arrow to the left was a shot that I felt a bad release. Thanks for everyone's help and suggestions. Just for reference, my nockpoint ended up at 1/2" and braceheight is at 7 1/2". The vey top arrow and the far left arrow are the broadheads.
(http://i818.photobucket.com/albums/zz107/wjackson11x/broadheadtune.jpg)
"I need some help. This has been a nightmare trying to tune my 45#@28 Grizzly..."
Hi Wes,
Today I'm having the same problem. I have the same bow as you but my draw is 28" and I have full length GT5575s spined @.400. I've gone up and down with point weights. Nock is still too high. Not much side to side deviation.
Now I'm fletching one arrow and I will adjust my point weights with a 3X4" feathered shaft, right helical.
Without reading the other posts, heres my point:
- Start looking at every aspect of your set up and make one adjustment at a time.
- Relax, its a sport, not a job. hings will work out for you.
Just MHO.
Regards.... :thumbsup:
I would definately say that you are in tune.
It's an awesome thing watching a broadhead tipped arrow fly straight and effortlessly toward the target and hit where you're aiming. Thanks again for everyone's help.
you can also nock to high where arrow bumps off shelf i would try to paper tune but it hard to get a ggod release for perfect flight. i would play with it til i get my best grouping .you can try a release ad to get good paper tear then go back to finger and paper tune at ddifferent yardages
QuoteOriginally posted by momo:
you can also nock to high where arrow bumps off shelf i would try to paper tune but it hard to get a ggod release for perfect flight. i would play with it til i get my best grouping .you can try a release ad to get good paper tear then go back to finger and paper tune at ddifferent yardages
Momo, If you'll read the entire post, You'll see what my conclusions were. I ended up at 1/2' nock high and around 7 1/2" braceheight. Broadheads fly perfect.