Title: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Terry Green on February 13, 2010, 10:55:00 AM
Post by: Terry Green on February 13, 2010, 10:55:00 AM
Not sure how we are going to handle it...but I'm chatting with some of the charter members about the site taking on more of a compound mentality, and I'm not going to let that go any farther. I'm not knocking compounds or folks that hunt with compounds. I wouldn't trade my compound years for nothing.....those years made me a better hunter when I gave up gun powder. But I got into trad to push myself even further. For more personal satisfaction of what I did than what my equipment helped me do....or 'supposedly' helped me do. Instead of 'looking' for an edge, I started creating an edge.
It looks as though many folks are way more worried over the 'performance' of their equipment than the performance of their own self. What once use to be more 'self improvement' questions as the norm here, now as of late, seem to be more 'equipment fix' discussions. It really does sound like the 'must have/gotta have - make you a better hunter' battle cry of the equipment hype in other facets of hunting.
I see the same threads and same arguing over and over and over. Some even have a rabid agenda to cram it down folks throats, and even call others unethical if they don't 'do as I say'. Even going as far as taking personal pot shots at those that 'don't abide by the new fangled fix'. Most of the folks that argue over equipment don't even congratulate other's when they post a successful hunt. They seems to be more worried over what broadhead someone use than the ten pointer they posted or HOW they succeeded on taking him....or his set up....or what clues tipped him off to his pattern.
Why is it that folks do not want to improve themselves instead of using a crutch that often is made of straw?
Nothing is going to get you closer to an animal but YOU. Nothing is going help you draw the bow at the perfect time but YOU. Nothing is going to make that arrow go into the vitals but YOU.
I just saw GMMATT's question...."Shooting with a pack on"?....I've seen this guy ask question after question....and all he seems to be worried about is his self improvement. That's the way it use to be here. Not to say there there shouldn't or wont be equipment discussions....but they have been running amok lately, and we are going to do something about it since its seems to be causing too much divisiveness.
When is the last time you've seen a guy put up a pic of his property and ask for stand location advice based on the terrain? This use to be pretty normal along with many other scouting questions and tips threads.
I don't know if its just me this morning or what, maybe I shouldn't be posting this, but this is just not what I see, but many of the guys I hunt with and many that have been frequenting this site for years have been bothered by the direction lately. Something to think about folks. I am not trying to slam anyone, or single anyone out....just calling a spade a spade. Maybe we should all take a minute to look in the mirror....me included!
Do we really want to rely more on our equipment than ourselves? Do we really want some other gadget to dull our woodsman ship? Do we really want to argue over a broadhead to the point that we don't work on our shooting skills?
Trad Gang started with a vision and it grew and grew and grew....and that vision is not going to fade or morph into something that wasn't intended. Not on my watch.
What say ye?
It looks as though many folks are way more worried over the 'performance' of their equipment than the performance of their own self. What once use to be more 'self improvement' questions as the norm here, now as of late, seem to be more 'equipment fix' discussions. It really does sound like the 'must have/gotta have - make you a better hunter' battle cry of the equipment hype in other facets of hunting.
I see the same threads and same arguing over and over and over. Some even have a rabid agenda to cram it down folks throats, and even call others unethical if they don't 'do as I say'. Even going as far as taking personal pot shots at those that 'don't abide by the new fangled fix'. Most of the folks that argue over equipment don't even congratulate other's when they post a successful hunt. They seems to be more worried over what broadhead someone use than the ten pointer they posted or HOW they succeeded on taking him....or his set up....or what clues tipped him off to his pattern.
Why is it that folks do not want to improve themselves instead of using a crutch that often is made of straw?
Nothing is going to get you closer to an animal but YOU. Nothing is going help you draw the bow at the perfect time but YOU. Nothing is going to make that arrow go into the vitals but YOU.
I just saw GMMATT's question...."Shooting with a pack on"?....I've seen this guy ask question after question....and all he seems to be worried about is his self improvement. That's the way it use to be here. Not to say there there shouldn't or wont be equipment discussions....but they have been running amok lately, and we are going to do something about it since its seems to be causing too much divisiveness.
When is the last time you've seen a guy put up a pic of his property and ask for stand location advice based on the terrain? This use to be pretty normal along with many other scouting questions and tips threads.
I don't know if its just me this morning or what, maybe I shouldn't be posting this, but this is just not what I see, but many of the guys I hunt with and many that have been frequenting this site for years have been bothered by the direction lately. Something to think about folks. I am not trying to slam anyone, or single anyone out....just calling a spade a spade. Maybe we should all take a minute to look in the mirror....me included!
Do we really want to rely more on our equipment than ourselves? Do we really want some other gadget to dull our woodsman ship? Do we really want to argue over a broadhead to the point that we don't work on our shooting skills?
Trad Gang started with a vision and it grew and grew and grew....and that vision is not going to fade or morph into something that wasn't intended. Not on my watch.
What say ye?
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: K.S.TRAPPER on February 13, 2010, 10:59:00 AM
Post by: K.S.TRAPPER on February 13, 2010, 10:59:00 AM
:thumbsup:
Tracy
Tracy
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Last of the Breed on February 13, 2010, 11:02:00 AM
Post by: Last of the Breed on February 13, 2010, 11:02:00 AM
I Agree.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: CDR on February 13, 2010, 11:03:00 AM
Post by: CDR on February 13, 2010, 11:03:00 AM
Well said TG!!!
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Doug Campbell on February 13, 2010, 11:06:00 AM
Post by: Doug Campbell on February 13, 2010, 11:06:00 AM
Amen Brother :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: jbuck9 on February 13, 2010, 11:06:00 AM
Post by: jbuck9 on February 13, 2010, 11:06:00 AM
I'll go along with that!!!!!! :clapper: :clapper: :clapper:
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Featherbuster on February 13, 2010, 11:10:00 AM
Post by: Featherbuster on February 13, 2010, 11:10:00 AM
Thank you Terry
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Paul Mattson on February 13, 2010, 11:14:00 AM
Post by: Paul Mattson on February 13, 2010, 11:14:00 AM
I have noticed the same thing lately. My take on the subject is not so much a compound additude but more of a rocket science. Example, How much will a cap wrap change my dynamic spine?
Nothing wrong with trying to get the best set up, but at times it goes way over board.
Have Fun, Shoot Straight, Keep it Simple. :archer:
Nothing wrong with trying to get the best set up, but at times it goes way over board.
Have Fun, Shoot Straight, Keep it Simple. :archer:
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: SpankyNeal on February 13, 2010, 11:16:00 AM
Post by: SpankyNeal on February 13, 2010, 11:16:00 AM
I agree 100%!
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: steadman on February 13, 2010, 11:17:00 AM
Post by: steadman on February 13, 2010, 11:17:00 AM
Amen!! Thanks Terry! :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Broken Arrows on February 13, 2010, 11:19:00 AM
Post by: Broken Arrows on February 13, 2010, 11:19:00 AM
I have been on this site about a year now and have learned more in that time then I have in years in all aspects of trad hunting. I do agree with Terry and this is one of the best sites if not the best site out there to learn all about trad hunting.
Dave
Dave
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Steve B. on February 13, 2010, 11:21:00 AM
Post by: Steve B. on February 13, 2010, 11:21:00 AM
This thread is a breath of fresh air.
I've been asking for a long time if half the guys on tradgang even hunt? There's lots of gear questions and debates and then lots of pics of whatever that don't teach anything. There's also lots of silence from those who know what is required to take game. Interesting.
I've often wished for a Hunting Forum with rules that disallow any gear talk.
I've been asking for a long time if half the guys on tradgang even hunt? There's lots of gear questions and debates and then lots of pics of whatever that don't teach anything. There's also lots of silence from those who know what is required to take game. Interesting.
I've often wished for a Hunting Forum with rules that disallow any gear talk.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: SveinD on February 13, 2010, 11:21:00 AM
Post by: SveinD on February 13, 2010, 11:21:00 AM
Well spoken!
Though everything has it's place, we must learn that in the end, it is mostly ourselves that make the differance.
This is the same with all other fields with man involved.
In photography as well you can have a really expensive camera(bow), an amazing lens (arrow) but in the end it's all up to the man or woman behind the equipment to makeit a good shot!
Maybe make a new forum for the mechanics, to take some of the load from PowWow?
Anyways, thanks for keeping watch! :archer:
Though everything has it's place, we must learn that in the end, it is mostly ourselves that make the differance.
This is the same with all other fields with man involved.
In photography as well you can have a really expensive camera(bow), an amazing lens (arrow) but in the end it's all up to the man or woman behind the equipment to makeit a good shot!
Maybe make a new forum for the mechanics, to take some of the load from PowWow?
Anyways, thanks for keeping watch! :archer:
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Terry Green on February 13, 2010, 11:28:00 AM
Post by: Terry Green on February 13, 2010, 11:28:00 AM
I'd also like to apologize if I've seemed 'edgy and short' lately.....this has been wearing on me for some time now.
Sorry.
Sorry.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: wingnut on February 13, 2010, 11:31:00 AM
Post by: wingnut on February 13, 2010, 11:31:00 AM
I feel your pain. You can sure tell when the hunting season ends. Cabin fever sets in and stuff starts hitting the fan.
Lots of this vs that threads and tell me what bow or what arrow threads.
I do like the sharpening threads, can't get too sharp.
Back when I worked in a archery pro shop, we called it "just add water bowhunters".
Gotta put the work in to get the results.
Mike
Lots of this vs that threads and tell me what bow or what arrow threads.
I do like the sharpening threads, can't get too sharp.
Back when I worked in a archery pro shop, we called it "just add water bowhunters".
Gotta put the work in to get the results.
Mike
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Chris Shelton on February 13, 2010, 11:33:00 AM
Post by: Chris Shelton on February 13, 2010, 11:33:00 AM
I must admit that I am guilty to this "gear talk", but a hunter is nothing without his stick. However, I must agree that we have gone a bit overboard on some threads. Terry I think it is just cabin fever, and a bunch of bored hunters that have money burnin a hole in there pocket! At least that is my excuse, minus the money :biglaugh:
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Terry Green on February 13, 2010, 11:34:00 AM
Post by: Terry Green on February 13, 2010, 11:34:00 AM
QuoteOriginally posted by wingnut:Yep....that is a SKILL we all need to know!!!! That's the kind of thread we DO need.
I do like the sharpening threads, can't get too sharp.
Mike
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: cacciatore on February 13, 2010, 11:35:00 AM
Post by: cacciatore on February 13, 2010, 11:35:00 AM
Well said Terry,I agreed completely with you.I would like to know how became a better hunter since bows are as good as we are and the time we spend to set them up.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Terry Green on February 13, 2010, 11:36:00 AM
Post by: Terry Green on February 13, 2010, 11:36:00 AM
QuoteOriginally posted by Chris Shelton:I hear ya...and it usually does happen after the season ends to a degree....but this started 9 months ago. Several of us have been monitoring it.
Terry I think it is just cabin fever, and a bunch of bored hunters that have money burnin a hole in there pocket! At least that is my excuse, minus the money :biglaugh:
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Mack_S on February 13, 2010, 11:39:00 AM
Post by: Mack_S on February 13, 2010, 11:39:00 AM
Not to stir the pot or anything...BUT...is this rise of 'mechanics' more of a cyclical event due to it being the off season for most hunters?? Once it gets closer to hunting season, don't these 'mechanics' post wane?? Again, not trying to stir the pot, just a question/observation.
-Mack
-Mack
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: LBR on February 13, 2010, 11:40:00 AM
Post by: LBR on February 13, 2010, 11:40:00 AM
If I read it right, I agree. We, as a group, often get caught up in the hype about this or that just as much as anyone. I'm probably an offender in the opposite direction--I'm always VERY skeptical of "New and Improved", and tend to go overboard in the other direction.
Chad
Chad
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: acollins on February 13, 2010, 11:41:00 AM
Post by: acollins on February 13, 2010, 11:41:00 AM
I am very new to traditional and I am dedicating myself to be the best I can be. I have learned a ton from this site. What I have noticed is that there is a lot of compound shooters coming to traditional. With a compound you can make a really poor shooter shoot pretty good with there equipment. When they switch to traditional and are not shooting well, they believe they can just adjust there equipment and fix it. Which as we know is not the case. I was slow to realize this myself. But am realizing that I really need to work on my form because I am not consistent.
I believe that is why you are getting so many equipment questions. Like I said I am pretty new and don't feel I know enough or earned the right to give my opinion. but I just feel that may be the reason. I do like that you want to keep the site in the right direction. Keep up the good work.
I believe that is why you are getting so many equipment questions. Like I said I am pretty new and don't feel I know enough or earned the right to give my opinion. but I just feel that may be the reason. I do like that you want to keep the site in the right direction. Keep up the good work.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: BEN on February 13, 2010, 11:41:00 AM
Post by: BEN on February 13, 2010, 11:41:00 AM
I agree............I haave been guilty of the occasional "what-if" questions regarding gear.....but There seems to be SO many lately.
It used to be questions regarding the prober cant, form alignment, etc.....now it's much more: what's faster, can I add this, or how will this _______ help my set-up.
Not knocking those question,I think they all have their place. But personally, I spend alot more time recently just scrolling down the list of topics without reading any or replying. I think we are losing some of the "Personal touch" and "family orientation" this site used to be .........JMO :rolleyes:
It used to be questions regarding the prober cant, form alignment, etc.....now it's much more: what's faster, can I add this, or how will this _______ help my set-up.
Not knocking those question,I think they all have their place. But personally, I spend alot more time recently just scrolling down the list of topics without reading any or replying. I think we are losing some of the "Personal touch" and "family orientation" this site used to be .........JMO :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Mack_S on February 13, 2010, 11:42:00 AM
Post by: Mack_S on February 13, 2010, 11:42:00 AM
I type too slow...just saw the post by Cacciatore explained by Terry.
-Mack
-Mack
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: South MS Bowhunter on February 13, 2010, 11:42:00 AM
Post by: South MS Bowhunter on February 13, 2010, 11:42:00 AM
Terry,
I agree and must admit to getting caught up in the "science" of Bows at times speed, performance, etc... and nothing wrong with that in it's proper place. But if I can't get within the same area of the game I'm pursuing it means nothing! I've bow hunted for the past 20 years (off and on) and I can tell you that the "science" of the bow has not help me kill one deer. I for one need to learn more of the fundamentals of hunting and welcome any advice out there to achieve that goal. Thanks for trying to get us back on track.
I agree and must admit to getting caught up in the "science" of Bows at times speed, performance, etc... and nothing wrong with that in it's proper place. But if I can't get within the same area of the game I'm pursuing it means nothing! I've bow hunted for the past 20 years (off and on) and I can tell you that the "science" of the bow has not help me kill one deer. I for one need to learn more of the fundamentals of hunting and welcome any advice out there to achieve that goal. Thanks for trying to get us back on track.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: trad_bowhunter1965 on February 13, 2010, 11:42:00 AM
Post by: trad_bowhunter1965 on February 13, 2010, 11:42:00 AM
:clapper: :clapper:
Awesome post Terry this why I switch to Traditional Bowhunting is to use and prefect my woodmenship self reliance. Blake
Awesome post Terry this why I switch to Traditional Bowhunting is to use and prefect my woodmenship self reliance. Blake
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: buckeye_hunter on February 13, 2010, 11:43:00 AM
Post by: buckeye_hunter on February 13, 2010, 11:43:00 AM
Good reminder.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: madness522 on February 13, 2010, 11:46:00 AM
Post by: madness522 on February 13, 2010, 11:46:00 AM
Terry your post is one of the reasons I love this site! It takes strong leadership and resolve to keep the vison of tradgang pure and pointed in the right direction. Thank you and all of the moderators for the dedication and time you spend keep us in line!!
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: K.S.TRAPPER on February 13, 2010, 11:47:00 AM
Post by: K.S.TRAPPER on February 13, 2010, 11:47:00 AM
acollins, Very well said :thumbsup: :)
Tracy
Tracy
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: billy shipp on February 13, 2010, 11:47:00 AM
Post by: billy shipp on February 13, 2010, 11:47:00 AM
I agree Terry......most of our members gravitated to TradGang for the simplicity of hunting with trad gear in the first place....let's keep it thata way.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: John3 on February 13, 2010, 11:48:00 AM
Post by: John3 on February 13, 2010, 11:48:00 AM
Terry I agree.. WE are traditional BOWHUNTERS! Not bow shooters or target archers. At least this is what and only I want to see on the PowWow.
The other forums are good and specific. Powwow should be about trad hunting and trad hunting "stuff".. LOL
John III
The other forums are good and specific. Powwow should be about trad hunting and trad hunting "stuff".. LOL
John III
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Orion on February 13, 2010, 11:49:00 AM
Post by: Orion on February 13, 2010, 11:49:00 AM
Well said, Terry. It is a difficult thing to police though. Often, what starts out as one thing morphs into something else, or the same thing can be viewed differently by two different people, etc. Hope we can help by doing a little more policing of ourselves. I do think the season (or lack of seasons) has a little to do with it. :)
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: tradtusker on February 13, 2010, 11:50:00 AM
Post by: tradtusker on February 13, 2010, 11:50:00 AM
Now that you point it out Terry i could not Agree more with your concerns
Iv prob contributed my share off topic bits and pieces, and lost sight of the important things here and there.
It does get a bit long on the tooth to see the same things over and over, same arguments that really dont get anyone any closer to successful hunting. Sometime you just think "Forget that, and just get out there and Hunt!"
I really like to see the posts of guys and girls that really get out there and get it done, its great to see posts from around the globe, All the hunts in the States, then the Australian Boys and their adventures, some of our members adventures through Hawaii, Andorra, France, Alaska, Africa the list goes on. Real hunters.
Glade we have you on watch mate :thumbsup:
Iv prob contributed my share off topic bits and pieces, and lost sight of the important things here and there.
It does get a bit long on the tooth to see the same things over and over, same arguments that really dont get anyone any closer to successful hunting. Sometime you just think "Forget that, and just get out there and Hunt!"
I really like to see the posts of guys and girls that really get out there and get it done, its great to see posts from around the globe, All the hunts in the States, then the Australian Boys and their adventures, some of our members adventures through Hawaii, Andorra, France, Alaska, Africa the list goes on. Real hunters.
Glade we have you on watch mate :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: straitera on February 13, 2010, 11:50:00 AM
Post by: straitera on February 13, 2010, 11:50:00 AM
What would Howard do?
Hi-tech is like Rap music...a little goes a long way.
Hi-tech is like Rap music...a little goes a long way.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Matt Fowler on February 13, 2010, 11:51:00 AM
Post by: Matt Fowler on February 13, 2010, 11:51:00 AM
Here! Here!, Well said. I was startin' to think I was missin' something like a skinny string:)
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: brushcreek on February 13, 2010, 11:51:00 AM
Post by: brushcreek on February 13, 2010, 11:51:00 AM
Thanks for having your finger on the pulse Terry.I also agree with Stephen B. thoughts.I'm not a frequent poster, but I'm on here alot .
BC
BC
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: caleb7mm on February 13, 2010, 11:53:00 AM
Post by: caleb7mm on February 13, 2010, 11:53:00 AM
QuoteOriginally posted by Terry Green:Well I for one am glad this was posted! I have only been apart of this site for 2 1/2 years but in the last 6 months it has changed. And not for the better. There are still the threads going on that drew me here but they are few and far between. I still visit once or twice a day but the amount of posts I click on has changed dramatically.
maybe I shouldn't be posting this,
I hope this post of Terry's spurs something that will change us for the better. We need it! We are not here because trad is "cool"! We are here because it is a part of our lives and we should start acting like that again. Put the emphasis back on being apart of the gear we use and make and not on the gear guiding us because it doesn't!
My .02
--c--
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: mrpenguin on February 13, 2010, 11:54:00 AM
Post by: mrpenguin on February 13, 2010, 11:54:00 AM
Well said... I must admit that I tend to get too wrapped up in my 'gear' instead of my form, technique, etc... upon recent self=reflection I noticed this, and your post just drives it home. Though I am VERY excited about my new bow, my aim is to get good with it and take an bird in the Spring, regardless of the type of arrow, string, bow, or broadhead. If I cannot work on shooting from a kneeling or sitting position, my turkey season will definitely end dry... thank you again Terry.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: pdk25 on February 13, 2010, 11:56:00 AM
Post by: pdk25 on February 13, 2010, 11:56:00 AM
I agree with your comments and I am an offender as well. While not usually starting the threads, I definitely find myself being sucked into the discussion when I don't agree with earlier comments. This definitely seems worse during the off-season. Just gotta resist the urge to comment, I guess.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Bear on February 13, 2010, 11:59:00 AM
Post by: Bear on February 13, 2010, 11:59:00 AM
:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :clapper: :clapper:
The questions and debate over setups are just getting ridiculous. I'm affraid most of it is ultimately an excuse to buy more toys and keep tinkering, because hey, it's fun. But not necessarily effective.
Bring it, Terry. If difficult decision are made, err on the side of strict.
QuoteOriginally posted by Terry Green:People, myself included, sometimes get caught up in the next great thing they want. Before you know it "want" becomes "need". The move to trad should be a move away from this.
It really does sound like the 'must have/gotta have - make you a better hunter' battle cry of the equipment hype in other facets of hunting.
The questions and debate over setups are just getting ridiculous. I'm affraid most of it is ultimately an excuse to buy more toys and keep tinkering, because hey, it's fun. But not necessarily effective.
Bring it, Terry. If difficult decision are made, err on the side of strict.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Kenneth on February 13, 2010, 12:00:00 PM
Post by: Kenneth on February 13, 2010, 12:00:00 PM
thanks for the reminder Terry. I usually post concerns about arrow and broadhead set-up and tuning to maximize performance and have never cared about bow speed, which is best, etc. The best to me is one with a grip that fits me well and I shoot well, and one that is quiet. As of late though I've been sucked in myself and gotten caught up in some of the "Best Gear" threads instead of focusing more on my form and woodsman ship and how to control my nerves when I do finally get an animal within 20yds. Thanks again for a reminder and keeping this train on the right track. :thumbsup: :archer:
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: legends1 on February 13, 2010, 12:01:00 PM
Post by: legends1 on February 13, 2010, 12:01:00 PM
Terry,Just saw your post and it really hit home with me and i know others.Last week had some guys in the shop.After hours it be comes a man cave.We solve all the worlds problems there.lol Anyway,i brought this very suject up.I had to know if it was just me.It wasnt everyone agreed.We all agreed that the reason for get'n into trad was the easy,no tuning this and tuning that world that compounders deal with.Some of the guys were compounders before trad and they said they dont miss the tuning thing at all.Mike did make a good point,maybe it is cabin fever.But not to pick on any body,but i think it is people new to trad and they need to tinker with there gear.Anyway thanks for posting alot of us agree.Thanks.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: superkodiak on February 13, 2010, 12:02:00 PM
Post by: superkodiak on February 13, 2010, 12:02:00 PM
a very timely post, and much appreciated, that's the very reason I gave up on gadgets, to enjoy the hunt and sharpen my skills as a hunter! very well stated, Terry
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Goke on February 13, 2010, 12:03:00 PM
Post by: Goke on February 13, 2010, 12:03:00 PM
Terry, Couldn't agree more. 3-4 more feet per second will not ensure the harvest but 3-4 yards on the ground or a stand/blind 3-4 yards closer to the right spot may. Its tough for some, including myself at times, not to get caught up in the gear, fps, etc. debate. Perhaps this reminder will cause everyone to take a little personal inventory and focus on those things that really matter and those things that brought each of us to traditional archery in the first place. Thanks
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: onewhohasfun on February 13, 2010, 12:05:00 PM
Post by: onewhohasfun on February 13, 2010, 12:05:00 PM
Terry,You are exactly right!
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Jason R. Wesbrock on February 13, 2010, 12:05:00 PM
Post by: Jason R. Wesbrock on February 13, 2010, 12:05:00 PM
Terry,
Kudos to you! I remember several years ago when Comptons came out with their big game archive program, a big discussion erupted on the ***********. Ron LaClair stated (and I'll have to paraphrase) that the reason they found it necessary was that there would come a time when traditional bowhunters would again have to defend the lethality of their equipment. The original P&Y program was set up just for that purpose—to defend bowhunting to a skeptical public and resistant game commissions. While I didn't doubt the validity of Ron's prediction, I never envisioned that we'd end up having to defend our equipment among ourselves.
Kudos to you! I remember several years ago when Comptons came out with their big game archive program, a big discussion erupted on the ***********. Ron LaClair stated (and I'll have to paraphrase) that the reason they found it necessary was that there would come a time when traditional bowhunters would again have to defend the lethality of their equipment. The original P&Y program was set up just for that purpose—to defend bowhunting to a skeptical public and resistant game commissions. While I didn't doubt the validity of Ron's prediction, I never envisioned that we'd end up having to defend our equipment among ourselves.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Jerry Jeffer on February 13, 2010, 12:08:00 PM
Post by: Jerry Jeffer on February 13, 2010, 12:08:00 PM
I do trad to challenge myself. I constantly get the old "you don't get as much game as you used to. Why not go back to guns and compounds?" from friends and family. I am always saying I do it for the challenge and the fun. I'm doing it my way. If filling your bag and numbers is what is important to you, that's fine. Take it to a place where people want that. I like it here because we talk about self improvement and answering the challenge, the call of the wild.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: joe skipp on February 13, 2010, 12:09:00 PM
Post by: joe skipp on February 13, 2010, 12:09:00 PM
I guess I'm from the generation who focused more on taking game by learning my skills from family. We studied the land we hunted and scouted weekends. Our goal was to put meat in the freezer. Our simple recurves, wooden arrows and broadheads back in the late 60's were short range weapons.
You learned how to shoot, make your own arrows and sharpen your heads. Setting up on a deer and taking him back then we called it "woods savy". The newcomers who have decided to shoot traditional are a different breed. They are more tuned to "gadgets" and that is the norm for compound shooters.
We at times are not helping them. I get frustrated too like Badger Arrow. When I give a customer my advice on what arrow he should shoot and he hits me with "Dynamic Spine Calculator" states....I just shake my head. Reports on why single bevel is better than regular heads...why?
Which is better...a Snuffer or Woodsman...why?
These converts are used to asking these questions because every Compound shop is out there with the latest high tech gear and these are normal questions to be asked. Plus, your in the age of the Instant Bowhunter.
Finally...lets take this new bow waiting to hit the market that is being built to handle a specific arrow. How many questions do you think will be asked if anyone, especially a newcomer wants to shoot carbon or aluminum off this bow.
Length, FOC, Feather length etc...
Maybe because I decided to keep my bowhunting and gear very basic, I look at some of these threads and avoid them. Just me rambling before I head out to work.
You learned how to shoot, make your own arrows and sharpen your heads. Setting up on a deer and taking him back then we called it "woods savy". The newcomers who have decided to shoot traditional are a different breed. They are more tuned to "gadgets" and that is the norm for compound shooters.
We at times are not helping them. I get frustrated too like Badger Arrow. When I give a customer my advice on what arrow he should shoot and he hits me with "Dynamic Spine Calculator" states....I just shake my head. Reports on why single bevel is better than regular heads...why?
Which is better...a Snuffer or Woodsman...why?
These converts are used to asking these questions because every Compound shop is out there with the latest high tech gear and these are normal questions to be asked. Plus, your in the age of the Instant Bowhunter.
Finally...lets take this new bow waiting to hit the market that is being built to handle a specific arrow. How many questions do you think will be asked if anyone, especially a newcomer wants to shoot carbon or aluminum off this bow.
Length, FOC, Feather length etc...
Maybe because I decided to keep my bowhunting and gear very basic, I look at some of these threads and avoid them. Just me rambling before I head out to work.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: leatherneck on February 13, 2010, 12:10:00 PM
Post by: leatherneck on February 13, 2010, 12:10:00 PM
Well said!!! ......and I totally agree.
:bigsmyl: :clapper:
:bigsmyl: :clapper:
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Robert Honaker on February 13, 2010, 12:14:00 PM
Post by: Robert Honaker on February 13, 2010, 12:14:00 PM
I agree. You did good.
I got sucked into a thread the other day and realized that I was ranting a little even thogh I didn't mean to. I was confused as to why we are fiddling with gadgets in stead of shooting more to improve accuracy, so I bailed on that thread.
That being said. I think keeping the topics on "target" will help newcomers to trad and keep them in it. Tuning a bow and arrow aint that easy. It may be the biggest factor in retaining people in the trad ranks. If an arrow doesn't fly perfect to a newcomer they will more than likely lose interest and be a bad spokesman for our sport.
Lets keep it simple and help these guys out.
Good job Terry! :clapper:
Thanks for your dedication.
I got sucked into a thread the other day and realized that I was ranting a little even thogh I didn't mean to. I was confused as to why we are fiddling with gadgets in stead of shooting more to improve accuracy, so I bailed on that thread.
That being said. I think keeping the topics on "target" will help newcomers to trad and keep them in it. Tuning a bow and arrow aint that easy. It may be the biggest factor in retaining people in the trad ranks. If an arrow doesn't fly perfect to a newcomer they will more than likely lose interest and be a bad spokesman for our sport.
Lets keep it simple and help these guys out.
Good job Terry! :clapper:
Thanks for your dedication.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Squirrel Bait on February 13, 2010, 12:15:00 PM
Post by: Squirrel Bait on February 13, 2010, 12:15:00 PM
AMEN BROTHER!
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: SkottyBoy on February 13, 2010, 12:16:00 PM
Post by: SkottyBoy on February 13, 2010, 12:16:00 PM
Ok here is a "newb" perspective. All the technology and mechanics discussions have scared me to the point that tuning a compound is easy! Why does trad gear need to be more complicated ?
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: 2treks on February 13, 2010, 12:18:00 PM
Post by: 2treks on February 13, 2010, 12:18:00 PM
Well now, If that don't put lead in your pencil, nothing will.
I for one know that it is easy to get caught-up in the frenzy that is called "speed" or "???" what ever we think we NEED to talk about today. But when it comes down to it, what we need is to be a better hunter. This means practice, study animals, practice, scouting, practice, and I think this last one can apply to many aspects of life, Association. If we hang out with likeminded people we will be better for it and it will keep your mind right. Plus it's fun to practice with other trad shooters. I do not want to sound like I am sounding the elitest horn or suggesting separation, But we have a site(tradgang) for our own likeminded talks, and we can glean much from it. Terry has a good idea here.
my 2 cents
Chuck
I for one know that it is easy to get caught-up in the frenzy that is called "speed" or "???" what ever we think we NEED to talk about today. But when it comes down to it, what we need is to be a better hunter. This means practice, study animals, practice, scouting, practice, and I think this last one can apply to many aspects of life, Association. If we hang out with likeminded people we will be better for it and it will keep your mind right. Plus it's fun to practice with other trad shooters. I do not want to sound like I am sounding the elitest horn or suggesting separation, But we have a site(tradgang) for our own likeminded talks, and we can glean much from it. Terry has a good idea here.
my 2 cents
Chuck
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Arwin on February 13, 2010, 12:23:00 PM
Post by: Arwin on February 13, 2010, 12:23:00 PM
Knock it up and let it fly!!!!!! :thumbsup:
One reason I gave up on the compound a nearly a decade ago: Too many worries!! ;)
One reason I gave up on the compound a nearly a decade ago: Too many worries!! ;)
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: mongoose on February 13, 2010, 12:32:00 PM
Post by: mongoose on February 13, 2010, 12:32:00 PM
Well said:) Years ago, while in the military, I learned what most often works the best and I think it applys here as well.. KISS(keep it simple silly) :biglaugh:
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: SERGIO VENNERI on February 13, 2010, 12:33:00 PM
Post by: SERGIO VENNERI on February 13, 2010, 12:33:00 PM
Thank you Terry , for getting everyone here back on course!! Very well said! :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: rightminded on February 13, 2010, 12:34:00 PM
Post by: rightminded on February 13, 2010, 12:34:00 PM
I agree, and i agree on the classifieds thing. I found myself passing over the discussions and going to the sales items.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: HATCHCHASER on February 13, 2010, 12:35:00 PM
Post by: HATCHCHASER on February 13, 2010, 12:35:00 PM
:clapper:
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Biggie Hoffman on February 13, 2010, 12:40:00 PM
Post by: Biggie Hoffman on February 13, 2010, 12:40:00 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by Terry Green:Anybody have an idea on stand placement here?
When is the last time you've seen a guy put up a pic of his property and ask for stand location advice based on the terrain?
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/whoffman1955/Feb%2012%202010%20snow%20in%20Georgia/IMG_1872.jpg)
:bigsmyl:
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: rascal on February 13, 2010, 12:40:00 PM
Post by: rascal on February 13, 2010, 12:40:00 PM
Ive noticed the same thing lately and I just shake my head and move on when I see those posts. Skinny strings, FOC, single bevel, etc... I see them and I think this is why I leave my compound in the case. Dont get me wrong I like to evaluate my set up and know that what I am using will get the job done but I resist "the absolute best" mentality. If I want more speed, more control over every variable etc. then the answer is quite simple its called a compound. Lets keep it simple here, lets keep it trad.
Great post and great timing Im with ya on this all the way.
Great post and great timing Im with ya on this all the way.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Molson on February 13, 2010, 12:41:00 PM
Post by: Molson on February 13, 2010, 12:41:00 PM
I have to agree. It used to be entertaining to poke a little back and forth about equipment and such. Maybe post a different view just to see how the pro and con argument would play out. All in fun... like sitting around the fire cutting on your buddy for shooting over the back of six deer in four days.
Somewhere along the line, some folks totally new to trad bows with almost no hunting experience got to telling those with the experience how wrong they are and how it should be done. I think the biggest problem with things like the Doc's study is that some idiot without any real experience can read it and think himself a master. Trophy kids...
Now somebody post some Caribou hunting pics and a story so I can get to dreaming about them again.... :)
Somewhere along the line, some folks totally new to trad bows with almost no hunting experience got to telling those with the experience how wrong they are and how it should be done. I think the biggest problem with things like the Doc's study is that some idiot without any real experience can read it and think himself a master. Trophy kids...
Now somebody post some Caribou hunting pics and a story so I can get to dreaming about them again.... :)
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: leatherneck on February 13, 2010, 12:41:00 PM
Post by: leatherneck on February 13, 2010, 12:41:00 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by Biggie Hoffman:Biggie, can you say tripod?
QuoteOriginally posted by Terry Green:Anybody have an idea on stand placement here?
When is the last time you've seen a guy put up a pic of his property and ask for stand location advice based on the terrain?
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/whoffman1955/Feb%2012%202010%20snow%20in%20Georgia/IMG_1872.jpg)
:bigsmyl: [/b]
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: fireball31 on February 13, 2010, 12:53:00 PM
Post by: fireball31 on February 13, 2010, 12:53:00 PM
I think a lot of the questions would stop popping up if people learned how to use the search function.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: WESTBROOK on February 13, 2010, 12:55:00 PM
Post by: WESTBROOK on February 13, 2010, 12:55:00 PM
Well said Terry, it has been getting a little "Techy" lately. Need to quit worrying about the # of strands, grains, FOC, to such a extreme degree and work on how to get themselves and their arrow in the right place at the right time.
Don Thomas stated in an article on buffalo hunting (paraphrase), with all hunters being adequately armed, to different degrees, all animals properly hit were recovered regardless of equipment used. All animals not properly hit were not recovered regardless of equipment used.
I believe that is valid for any animal you hunt.
Eric
Don Thomas stated in an article on buffalo hunting (paraphrase), with all hunters being adequately armed, to different degrees, all animals properly hit were recovered regardless of equipment used. All animals not properly hit were not recovered regardless of equipment used.
I believe that is valid for any animal you hunt.
Eric
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Joshua Long on February 13, 2010, 12:56:00 PM
Post by: Joshua Long on February 13, 2010, 12:56:00 PM
As a newbie, I have tried to use the search feature first on my tech questions. I do see a lot of repeat questions.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: TRADNSC on February 13, 2010, 01:00:00 PM
Post by: TRADNSC on February 13, 2010, 01:00:00 PM
Thank you Terry.
David
David
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: BEN on February 13, 2010, 01:05:00 PM
Post by: BEN on February 13, 2010, 01:05:00 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by Biggie Hoffman:If you allow me to hunt that piece for say.........a season: I might be able to help you out!! :bigsmyl: :bigsmyl:
QuoteOriginally posted by Terry Green:Anybody have an idea on stand placement here?
When is the last time you've seen a guy put up a pic of his property and ask for stand location advice based on the terrain?
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/whoffman1955/Feb%2012%202010%20snow%20in%20Georgia/IMG_1872.jpg)
[/b]
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Brently on February 13, 2010, 01:08:00 PM
Post by: Brently on February 13, 2010, 01:08:00 PM
Thank you Terry, I hardly read the pow wow any more because of this very thing. Why make a simple thing complicated?
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: GingivitisKahn on February 13, 2010, 01:12:00 PM
Post by: GingivitisKahn on February 13, 2010, 01:12:00 PM
Ah - I don't see it but whatever. Tradgang is one of the *very* few sites I check multiple times a day. There are always several threads that are enlightening or entertaining to me.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: 2fletch on February 13, 2010, 01:12:00 PM
Post by: 2fletch on February 13, 2010, 01:12:00 PM
Glad you said it Terry. It's a turn off to me to hear too much technology. I like "how to" stuff, but the beauty of traditional archery is the stick and string thing. It ruins it to spend to much thought on equipment.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: metsastaja on February 13, 2010, 01:23:00 PM
Post by: metsastaja on February 13, 2010, 01:23:00 PM
I know this has been on you and Gurs mind for a while. Well stated.
By the way I spiffed up the platform and have but in a natural blind down at pine. Should be some good hog hunting there in the next couple of weeks from all the sign I have been seeing.
By the way I spiffed up the platform and have but in a natural blind down at pine. Should be some good hog hunting there in the next couple of weeks from all the sign I have been seeing.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: GingivitisKahn on February 13, 2010, 01:29:00 PM
Post by: GingivitisKahn on February 13, 2010, 01:29:00 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by Biggie Hoffman:Wax your string like there's no tomorrow, get a snorkel (with reeds tied to the top of course) and lurk in the pond like some sneaky gaitor of doom. :-D
QuoteOriginally posted by Terry Green:Anybody have an idea on stand placement here?
When is the last time you've seen a guy put up a pic of his property and ask for stand location advice based on the terrain?
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/whoffman1955/Feb%2012%202010%20snow%20in%20Georgia/IMG_1872.jpg)
:bigsmyl: [/b]
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: varmint101 on February 13, 2010, 01:30:00 PM
Post by: varmint101 on February 13, 2010, 01:30:00 PM
Good post Terry. I've tried not to get caught up in all the hubub, but I'm not innocent either.
I know when I first started 5 years ago all I had were cedar shafts and a pack of Woodsmans and no help anywhere but here. It was/is very simple and works. I remember learning how to sharpen them from a tutorial someone had posted here. Anyway, I getcha and I agree.
Biggie, try the upwind side!. :)
I know when I first started 5 years ago all I had were cedar shafts and a pack of Woodsmans and no help anywhere but here. It was/is very simple and works. I remember learning how to sharpen them from a tutorial someone had posted here. Anyway, I getcha and I agree.
Biggie, try the upwind side!. :)
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: jhg on February 13, 2010, 01:32:00 PM
Post by: jhg on February 13, 2010, 01:32:00 PM
I am about a year into Trad archery and as a way to understand the equipment have found threads regarding broadheads, strings, FPS and other performance related stuff very informative because I had zero understanding of any of them or of trad bows.
I learned about broadheads and made a choice based on the info here. I chose a bow based on info here, balancing design characteristics, esthetics and "feel". I learned about how to shorten string serving, pad loops and quiet a bow via brace ht and judicous use of silencers.
I hope that general tech info does not disappear entirely because it has helped me greatly in my first year. Frankly, I don't know what I have done without them. And I think design theory as it relates to bows and tackle is very interesting in general, though not to "majic pill" ones way to a successful hunt.
I have really enjoyed the posts when someone relates a hunting experience that may or may not have been successful, but was a "success". Most of you know what I 'm talking about.
I agree the agrumentative posts have detracted from the spirit of friendship here. However, and even understanding Terry's frustration, he and the mods have done a good job controlling it.
I don't think things are too far off track. Nothing a good strong back, a sturdy fulcrum and stout lever can't get back onto the road.
Joshua
I learned about broadheads and made a choice based on the info here. I chose a bow based on info here, balancing design characteristics, esthetics and "feel". I learned about how to shorten string serving, pad loops and quiet a bow via brace ht and judicous use of silencers.
I hope that general tech info does not disappear entirely because it has helped me greatly in my first year. Frankly, I don't know what I have done without them. And I think design theory as it relates to bows and tackle is very interesting in general, though not to "majic pill" ones way to a successful hunt.
I have really enjoyed the posts when someone relates a hunting experience that may or may not have been successful, but was a "success". Most of you know what I 'm talking about.
I agree the agrumentative posts have detracted from the spirit of friendship here. However, and even understanding Terry's frustration, he and the mods have done a good job controlling it.
I don't think things are too far off track. Nothing a good strong back, a sturdy fulcrum and stout lever can't get back onto the road.
Joshua
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: NDTerminator on February 13, 2010, 01:32:00 PM
Post by: NDTerminator on February 13, 2010, 01:32:00 PM
So if performance improvement discussion is verbotten, Does this apply to Dr. Asby's research & theory of improved Trad performance? Will discussion and use of Stu's Calculator threads be banned? How about discussions in regard to such performance improvers as carbon arrows? What about questions in regard to alum riser ILF bows and high performance bows such as the ACS?
One of the reasons I joined here was the brotherhood, a guy was made welcome. I also was freely given advice & info on the daunting task of how to set up & tune my rigs, even though I made it clear I wasn't going to wear plaid wool, shoot wood & chip points.
This post sounds like guys like me who don't confine ourselves to anyone else's Trad mold and who enjoy the process of getting the best out of our setups are not going to be so welcome anymore.
Close mindedness is a bad habit to get into, and generally only leads to greater division than existed in the first place. One thing I've learned out on my farmstead, there's more than one way around the barn...
Probably a bad time to post up about the Hoyt Dorado I ordered yesterday, which will be set up for hunting with a shorty plunger & T-300 rest... :D
One of the reasons I joined here was the brotherhood, a guy was made welcome. I also was freely given advice & info on the daunting task of how to set up & tune my rigs, even though I made it clear I wasn't going to wear plaid wool, shoot wood & chip points.
This post sounds like guys like me who don't confine ourselves to anyone else's Trad mold and who enjoy the process of getting the best out of our setups are not going to be so welcome anymore.
Close mindedness is a bad habit to get into, and generally only leads to greater division than existed in the first place. One thing I've learned out on my farmstead, there's more than one way around the barn...
Probably a bad time to post up about the Hoyt Dorado I ordered yesterday, which will be set up for hunting with a shorty plunger & T-300 rest... :D
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: wapiti on February 13, 2010, 01:38:00 PM
Post by: wapiti on February 13, 2010, 01:38:00 PM
Not to be the fly in "the ointment" but many threads such as are spoken of came along after the "studies of the advantage of the single bevel" posts. It makes my heart jump when soemone asks WHAT FOC is and not WHAT FOC IS BEST. This tells me the guy or galis learning about what works for him or her and not "just add water and heat for 30 seconds". Information is good when used but we are seeing an overload of information best left at the door at the factory.
How about more threads on whitetail posturing? I have hunted mule deer most of my life and eat up info on what a whitetail thinks. JMHO and TIFWIT
How about more threads on whitetail posturing? I have hunted mule deer most of my life and eat up info on what a whitetail thinks. JMHO and TIFWIT
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: no on February 13, 2010, 01:41:00 PM
Post by: no on February 13, 2010, 01:41:00 PM
I will agree as well. I got caught up in the bow trading buying game a bit, thought there was some magic bow out there for me. But then decided to shoot my northwind longbow only because it was the the first longbow I had & I couldnt get decent with it switching around bows all the time. Went back to aluminum arrows & I am having so much more fun with just one bow. I still look to see whats out there but dont have the urge to buy different stuff anymore. Mike
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Mike Bolin on February 13, 2010, 01:53:00 PM
Post by: Mike Bolin on February 13, 2010, 01:53:00 PM
Terry, I agree as well. I've slipped into it myself....and I know better!
I don't think that anyone is saying that foc, efoc, single bevel discussions are going to be taboo. It is human nature to over-examine things sometimes. It is easier to go with the Latest and Greatest than it is to practice with and tune the equipment you have. Alot of guys have done well and continue to do well with "basic equipment"(see Fred Eichler, Roger Rothaar, Gene and Barry Wensel threads). No amount of technology can take the place of skill, aquired thru practice. Shoot the bow you like, find an arrow and broadhead combo that flys true and practice/hunt hard......and have FUN! (It's supposed to be fun.....right?) Mike
I don't think that anyone is saying that foc, efoc, single bevel discussions are going to be taboo. It is human nature to over-examine things sometimes. It is easier to go with the Latest and Greatest than it is to practice with and tune the equipment you have. Alot of guys have done well and continue to do well with "basic equipment"(see Fred Eichler, Roger Rothaar, Gene and Barry Wensel threads). No amount of technology can take the place of skill, aquired thru practice. Shoot the bow you like, find an arrow and broadhead combo that flys true and practice/hunt hard......and have FUN! (It's supposed to be fun.....right?) Mike
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: ishiwannabe on February 13, 2010, 01:56:00 PM
Post by: ishiwannabe on February 13, 2010, 01:56:00 PM
Bravo.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Pinecone on February 13, 2010, 02:00:00 PM
Post by: Pinecone on February 13, 2010, 02:00:00 PM
Agree!!!
Claudia
Claudia
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Missouri Bowman on February 13, 2010, 02:03:00 PM
Post by: Missouri Bowman on February 13, 2010, 02:03:00 PM
Its about time someone said something. Thanks.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Bill Carlsen on February 13, 2010, 02:07:00 PM
Post by: Bill Carlsen on February 13, 2010, 02:07:00 PM
Terry: Your whole statement has me in an honest state of "befuddledment". Let me try to explain. The first real "fire in my belly" about bowhunting came about simply by seeing Howard Hills book "Hunting the Hard Way" in a local sporting goods store back in about 1951 or 52. If you read his book you learned that he was very much about getting the most our of his equipment than he could. He was pretty excited about discovering that a fiberglass strip on the back of his bow made it a better shooter.
Ben Pearson and Fred Bear cannot be said to have not been innovators, technicians and inventors...just look at the patents that they owned.
Way back in the 1930's there was an add in Ye Sylvan archery that stated very simply that the way to achieve good shooting required two things....well matched equipment and proper shooting form. I personally have seen the advancement in bow and arrow performance (in trad bows and arrows) improve before my eyes over the years and it all has had to do with people who had an idea, worked on it and brought it to the market place. I doubt very much that you would give up your AD arrow shafts because someone with a technical/scientific gene thought them up, figured out how to produce them and then got them to the market place and eventually into your hands.
For me, personally, I cannot seperate the desire to have the best equipment from the best shooting skills I am capable of. It's sort of like cake without icing.
Again, speaking of the 50's the NFAA monthly publication, ARCHERY, had a column each month called, Archery, the Technical Side. I learned a lot from that all the way from archer's paradox and the importance of correct arrow spine, to how a radiused shelf and side plate made for better arrow clearance to how to mount broadheads correctly. If you go further back to the 30's and look into Ye Sylvan Archer you will find arcticles that led to the development of the spine tester and the development of the spine charts we are all familiar with. They even did tests where they weighed the physical weight of the string to determine how the weight of the string would affect arrow flight. The amount of math and calculations in these articles make me dizzy but it was those people who had a technical bent and interest in how bows and arrows actually work that have led us to the best equipment we have ever had.
For many who do not completely understand the physics of how to get an arrow from here to there traditional archery can be very frustrating to master. There is more to it than merely having a stick and string.
Where I do agree with you, and I see it when I go to various competitions, is that many, many trad archers have terrible and inconsistent shooting habits and form. With all the technical advances we have I do not understand the reason for what I often see as terrible shooting skills. It makes me wonder how well they know their equipment if they do not take the time to know themselves as shooters. In order to shoot well you must have the two basics I mentioned earlier....matched equipment and proper form. One of the reasons that compound shooters can shoot so well in a relatively short period of time is that compound bows and arrows do not lend themselves very well to poor form or poorly tuned set ups. You either do it right or it doesn't work....period. And the let off feature of the compound allows one to concentrate on form without getting the shakes from holding a heavier trad bow.
So, in some ways I will take the other side. I like to tinker. I like to know how to best get my arrow from here to there. I like to be able to shoot a bare shaft straight at 50 yards. I like knowing what to do to my equipment to get it to do that. I like to know I have that kind of control over my shooting skills to get it to do that. I like to share thoughts and experiences with others in that regard. And in the end, when the animal steps up and presents the shot, my heart still betrays me, my breathing makes all that control at the target seem impossible to regain, my desire to remain undetected at that moment creates doubt and sometimes my knees feel as though they don't belong to me.....and the pounding in my head has, at times, caused me to pass a shot that at the practice butt would have seemed a certainty. Never once in that few moments do I think about my nocking point, or the fallibility of my equipment or my ability to make the shot. If my equipment and shooting was not as good as I could get it to be then I wouldn't even be there....nor, I expect, would you. To me, and to guys like Hill, Bear and Pearson, their success...after you factor out all the human stuff I just described....depended on their confidence in their knowledge of their equipment, how it worked and how it could be used to its best potential in their hands. I cannot wrap my brain around how understanding the technical aspects of how one's bow and arrow works would make a hunting experience less authentic or exciting. And knowing and understanding all that stuff....does it make you less of a woodsman, or hunter, or lover of the sport? It hasn't for me. In fact, the more in tune I am with my equipment the more competent I feel I will be when the time to drop the sting assaults me. Ask a truly competent musician if it is important to understand how his/her instrument works and if it affects their performance and see what they have to say.
Ben Pearson and Fred Bear cannot be said to have not been innovators, technicians and inventors...just look at the patents that they owned.
Way back in the 1930's there was an add in Ye Sylvan archery that stated very simply that the way to achieve good shooting required two things....well matched equipment and proper shooting form. I personally have seen the advancement in bow and arrow performance (in trad bows and arrows) improve before my eyes over the years and it all has had to do with people who had an idea, worked on it and brought it to the market place. I doubt very much that you would give up your AD arrow shafts because someone with a technical/scientific gene thought them up, figured out how to produce them and then got them to the market place and eventually into your hands.
For me, personally, I cannot seperate the desire to have the best equipment from the best shooting skills I am capable of. It's sort of like cake without icing.
Again, speaking of the 50's the NFAA monthly publication, ARCHERY, had a column each month called, Archery, the Technical Side. I learned a lot from that all the way from archer's paradox and the importance of correct arrow spine, to how a radiused shelf and side plate made for better arrow clearance to how to mount broadheads correctly. If you go further back to the 30's and look into Ye Sylvan Archer you will find arcticles that led to the development of the spine tester and the development of the spine charts we are all familiar with. They even did tests where they weighed the physical weight of the string to determine how the weight of the string would affect arrow flight. The amount of math and calculations in these articles make me dizzy but it was those people who had a technical bent and interest in how bows and arrows actually work that have led us to the best equipment we have ever had.
For many who do not completely understand the physics of how to get an arrow from here to there traditional archery can be very frustrating to master. There is more to it than merely having a stick and string.
Where I do agree with you, and I see it when I go to various competitions, is that many, many trad archers have terrible and inconsistent shooting habits and form. With all the technical advances we have I do not understand the reason for what I often see as terrible shooting skills. It makes me wonder how well they know their equipment if they do not take the time to know themselves as shooters. In order to shoot well you must have the two basics I mentioned earlier....matched equipment and proper form. One of the reasons that compound shooters can shoot so well in a relatively short period of time is that compound bows and arrows do not lend themselves very well to poor form or poorly tuned set ups. You either do it right or it doesn't work....period. And the let off feature of the compound allows one to concentrate on form without getting the shakes from holding a heavier trad bow.
So, in some ways I will take the other side. I like to tinker. I like to know how to best get my arrow from here to there. I like to be able to shoot a bare shaft straight at 50 yards. I like knowing what to do to my equipment to get it to do that. I like to know I have that kind of control over my shooting skills to get it to do that. I like to share thoughts and experiences with others in that regard. And in the end, when the animal steps up and presents the shot, my heart still betrays me, my breathing makes all that control at the target seem impossible to regain, my desire to remain undetected at that moment creates doubt and sometimes my knees feel as though they don't belong to me.....and the pounding in my head has, at times, caused me to pass a shot that at the practice butt would have seemed a certainty. Never once in that few moments do I think about my nocking point, or the fallibility of my equipment or my ability to make the shot. If my equipment and shooting was not as good as I could get it to be then I wouldn't even be there....nor, I expect, would you. To me, and to guys like Hill, Bear and Pearson, their success...after you factor out all the human stuff I just described....depended on their confidence in their knowledge of their equipment, how it worked and how it could be used to its best potential in their hands. I cannot wrap my brain around how understanding the technical aspects of how one's bow and arrow works would make a hunting experience less authentic or exciting. And knowing and understanding all that stuff....does it make you less of a woodsman, or hunter, or lover of the sport? It hasn't for me. In fact, the more in tune I am with my equipment the more competent I feel I will be when the time to drop the sting assaults me. Ask a truly competent musician if it is important to understand how his/her instrument works and if it affects their performance and see what they have to say.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Bill Turner on February 13, 2010, 02:17:00 PM
Post by: Bill Turner on February 13, 2010, 02:17:00 PM
If you don't controll the site, the site will control you. A few will ruin it for everyone else. It has happened elsewhere, guarantee. Thanks for staying on top of this site(TG). That is what makes it top dog in my book. Keep up the good work.
Bill Turner
Bill Turner
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: 4est trekker on February 13, 2010, 02:31:00 PM
Post by: 4est trekker on February 13, 2010, 02:31:00 PM
Brother, you nailed it. Absolutely nailed it! :thumbsup: I was hoping I wasn't the only one feeling this way. I've quit frequenting the PowWow as much as of late because I'm bored and put off with the "5 more feet per second" and "if I only had this or that" posts.
I build my own archery tackle from start to finish, so of course I enjoy learning how to maximize what I'm making. But crap, it isn't worth a pile of peanuts if I don't know how to use it.
Thanks for starting this thread. Looking forward to seeing how it plays out. You administrators do a great job!
I build my own archery tackle from start to finish, so of course I enjoy learning how to maximize what I'm making. But crap, it isn't worth a pile of peanuts if I don't know how to use it.
Thanks for starting this thread. Looking forward to seeing how it plays out. You administrators do a great job!
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Ray on February 13, 2010, 02:31:00 PM
Post by: Ray on February 13, 2010, 02:31:00 PM
Terry don't take this the wrong way but I was wondering if you took your grumpy pill this morning (LOL).
I must be reading the wrong threads because I havn't read anything about compounds,but then again I only read what interest me.
You do a great job with this site Terry so if you want to be cranky we will let you.
Thanks again for my cyberhome, while home - Ray.
I must be reading the wrong threads because I havn't read anything about compounds,but then again I only read what interest me.
You do a great job with this site Terry so if you want to be cranky we will let you.
Thanks again for my cyberhome, while home - Ray.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Leland on February 13, 2010, 02:36:00 PM
Post by: Leland on February 13, 2010, 02:36:00 PM
There is nothing wrong with advise and opinions,thats how we learn.Take from them what you want and move on.If it's not going to cause someone bodily injury or cause equipment failure,whats the harm?There's to much "cyber courage" and not enough respect for each other.This site is one of a kind, isn't that why were all here enjoying it.
Leland
Leland
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Rob DiStefano on February 13, 2010, 02:41:00 PM
Post by: Rob DiStefano on February 13, 2010, 02:41:00 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by Bill Carlsen:i've been in the 'music business' since the mid 60's, as a player, fretted instrument tech and luthier. for the last four years i've been doing contract for work at one of the leading 'music factory' studios in the usa.
... Ask a truly competent musician if it is important to understand how his/her instrument works and if it affects their performance and see what they have to say.
the real artists place little to no emphasis on their instruments, they can make a cigar box with strings sound like a heavenly harp. their focus is on the music and they have real talent.
almost all the musicians i've worked with who dwell and obsess on their gear aren't, and will probably never be as talented as the real artists.
imo, it's the same with trad bowhunting.
it's really not about a lotta emphasis on the gear.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: raideranch on February 13, 2010, 02:41:00 PM
Post by: raideranch on February 13, 2010, 02:41:00 PM
Maybe its because of the off season.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Flinttim on February 13, 2010, 02:49:00 PM
Post by: Flinttim on February 13, 2010, 02:49:00 PM
Great post Terry. Me personally, I'm just too damn cheap to get involved in all the "tech" stuff. High tech for me would be Fast Flite. LOL.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: elkken on February 13, 2010, 02:53:00 PM
Post by: elkken on February 13, 2010, 02:53:00 PM
Good post Terry ... we all need food for thought. Growth certainly can be a burden. This site has a more respectfull membership than any I have participated in and debate is good as long as it is respectfull and we continue to be mindfull of the Traditional principles that built this great site ...
:thumbsup:
:thumbsup:
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: GMMAT on February 13, 2010, 02:58:00 PM
Post by: GMMAT on February 13, 2010, 02:58:00 PM
Questions?
You ain't seen NOTHING, yet! It's a full SEVEN MONTHS 'til I head to CO!....lol
Good thread, though. I keep stealin' someone else's line, but....I'm a 2-1/2" shell kinda guy.
You ain't seen NOTHING, yet! It's a full SEVEN MONTHS 'til I head to CO!....lol
Good thread, though. I keep stealin' someone else's line, but....I'm a 2-1/2" shell kinda guy.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Covey on February 13, 2010, 02:59:00 PM
Post by: Covey on February 13, 2010, 02:59:00 PM
I couldn't agree more! I got in to traditional archery for the simplicity of it. If I can improve my shot and get an arrow to go to my intended spot I'm tickled. This site and the good people here have been my mentor's. I come here daily and enjoy the time I spend here and would love to continue for many more years. To all the people that make this possible "kudo's" and keep up the good work. Thank's Jason
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: smoke1953 on February 13, 2010, 03:01:00 PM
Post by: smoke1953 on February 13, 2010, 03:01:00 PM
I hope things don't get too critical in the evaluation of technical posts, it's just too difficult to determine when someone might cross the line. Hopefully the intent of what Terry has said with reminders occasionally will be enough to keep the site strong.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: WESTBROOK on February 13, 2010, 03:11:00 PM
Post by: WESTBROOK on February 13, 2010, 03:11:00 PM
Sorry Rob, cant resist. The "leading music factory" studio in the USA has no idea what an artist is, just turn on the radio and listen.
The main stream music business is all about glitz, glamour and looking pretty, not music. Funny thing, main stream hunting has followed a parallel path.
Clapton, BB King, Stevie Ray..and other artist have there beloved instruments and would sooner part with most anything else. Granted they could make any thing sound good but its not the same as "Blacky" or "Lucille"
I'll shutup now
Eric
The main stream music business is all about glitz, glamour and looking pretty, not music. Funny thing, main stream hunting has followed a parallel path.
Clapton, BB King, Stevie Ray..and other artist have there beloved instruments and would sooner part with most anything else. Granted they could make any thing sound good but its not the same as "Blacky" or "Lucille"
I'll shutup now
Eric
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: DesertDude on February 13, 2010, 03:12:00 PM
Post by: DesertDude on February 13, 2010, 03:12:00 PM
Well Said Terry, Thank you.....
Mark
Mark
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Jmgcurve on February 13, 2010, 03:18:00 PM
Post by: Jmgcurve on February 13, 2010, 03:18:00 PM
I agree that we should keep it simple, and I have been guilty of some of the question threads. For that I apologize. I have only recently began checking out TradGang again, and have posted very little until a couple of months ago. Mostly because I want to find and shoot a longbow. I have been looking a long time to no avail. All of this on my part has been off-season fever.
Sorry and I will do better,
Michael
Sorry and I will do better,
Michael
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Teacher_of_the_Arcane on February 13, 2010, 03:22:00 PM
Post by: Teacher_of_the_Arcane on February 13, 2010, 03:22:00 PM
"What say ye?"
Huzzah!!
Huzzah!!
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Iron on February 13, 2010, 03:23:00 PM
Post by: Iron on February 13, 2010, 03:23:00 PM
I have to agree 110% with what acollins said, this is exactly how i feel..im not afraid to ask a dumb question :confused: , but dont feel i know enough to give to much advice.
I believe that is why you are getting so many equipment questions. Like I said I am pretty new and don't feel I know enough or earned the right to give my opinion. but I just feel that may be the reason. I do like that you want to keep the site in the right direction. Keep up the good work.
I love this site i will contribute as long as im able. :)
Quoteacollins I am very new to traditional and I am dedicating myself to be the best I can be. I have learned a ton from this site. What I have noticed is that there is a lot of compound shooters coming to traditional. With a compound you can make a really poor shooter shoot pretty good with there equipment. When they switch to traditional and are not shooting well, they believe they can just adjust there equipment and fix it. Which as we know is not the case. I was slow to realize this myself. But am realizing that I really need to work on my form because I am not consistent.
I believe that is why you are getting so many equipment questions. Like I said I am pretty new and don't feel I know enough or earned the right to give my opinion. but I just feel that may be the reason. I do like that you want to keep the site in the right direction. Keep up the good work.
I love this site i will contribute as long as im able. :)
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Greg Szalewski on February 13, 2010, 03:26:00 PM
Post by: Greg Szalewski on February 13, 2010, 03:26:00 PM
Terry, thanks for taking the lead on this. I am sure it has been quite bothersome to you as it is very difficult to point out exactly what is best for us and what is not. Way too much gray area.
Sixteen years ago when set the wheels aside and made up my mind I was finally going to do it the hard way and mean the hard way. It would be with a bow I made or nothing. I realized just as important as the bow was how I could improve on my own techniques. This was emphasized in the trad community and was a breath of fresh air from the wheel crowd. That being said I have been watching the gradual change back in that direction amongst the trad folks and don't like it. We all need to look in the mirror, there is more room for improvement there than in all the other areas combined.
Sixteen years ago when set the wheels aside and made up my mind I was finally going to do it the hard way and mean the hard way. It would be with a bow I made or nothing. I realized just as important as the bow was how I could improve on my own techniques. This was emphasized in the trad community and was a breath of fresh air from the wheel crowd. That being said I have been watching the gradual change back in that direction amongst the trad folks and don't like it. We all need to look in the mirror, there is more room for improvement there than in all the other areas combined.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: SuperK on February 13, 2010, 04:05:00 PM
Post by: SuperK on February 13, 2010, 04:05:00 PM
Well, here's my 2 cents worth....What I think we need is a balance. Yes, it does seem some folks tend to go a little "overboard" when something new comes along, but I have learned a LOT on this site from the experience and testing other folks have done. What percentage of us hunt with primitive gear?(self bows, home made squirrel hide strings, knapped stone points, etc.) We have ALL benefited to some degree from other people who were not satisfied with what they had and experimented to make it better. For example, a friend of mine this year asked for my help tuning his recurve bow. He was ready to go back to the compound because he couldn't get his carbon arrows flying good. WITH THE INFO THAT I OBTAINED FROM THIS SITE, we were able to get his setup flying great. He was so excited and pleased that he hunted with his recurve all year.
However, with that being said, nothing; absolutely nothing can and will ever take the place of proper form and woodsmanship. The latest,greatest, most expensive, equipment in the world ain't gonna make up for a bad "hayhooked" release or a stand in the wrong place! I went to a 3-d shoot several years ago with a brand new, high dollar recurve that I just KNEW was going to put me in the top 10. I just KNEW it was! I ended up shooting with a fellow that had a 60 lb. hickory selfbow. HE WORE ME OUT! Why? He had great form and was consistent. I was blaming my inconsistent shooting on my gear instead of my form. He was shooting to improve himself on hunting shots. I was there with the wrong motives. I learned a lot that day.
So what am I saying? I think we NEED a balance. Yes, we CAN benefit from some of the tech talk
BUT in trad archery we accept and embrace the challenge of our sport and the SKILLS that take the time and effort to acquire to become successful. If you want to hunt with EFOC carbon arrows with a single bevel broadhead, go right ahead! But if I choose to hunt with wooden arrows that I made myself with a 4-blade broadhead, thats the way I want to do it.
So, lets all try to respect each other and each others opion without forgetting WHY we chose to use trad gear. OK?
However, with that being said, nothing; absolutely nothing can and will ever take the place of proper form and woodsmanship. The latest,greatest, most expensive, equipment in the world ain't gonna make up for a bad "hayhooked" release or a stand in the wrong place! I went to a 3-d shoot several years ago with a brand new, high dollar recurve that I just KNEW was going to put me in the top 10. I just KNEW it was! I ended up shooting with a fellow that had a 60 lb. hickory selfbow. HE WORE ME OUT! Why? He had great form and was consistent. I was blaming my inconsistent shooting on my gear instead of my form. He was shooting to improve himself on hunting shots. I was there with the wrong motives. I learned a lot that day.
So what am I saying? I think we NEED a balance. Yes, we CAN benefit from some of the tech talk
BUT in trad archery we accept and embrace the challenge of our sport and the SKILLS that take the time and effort to acquire to become successful. If you want to hunt with EFOC carbon arrows with a single bevel broadhead, go right ahead! But if I choose to hunt with wooden arrows that I made myself with a 4-blade broadhead, thats the way I want to do it.
So, lets all try to respect each other and each others opion without forgetting WHY we chose to use trad gear. OK?
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Terry Green on February 13, 2010, 04:25:00 PM
Post by: Terry Green on February 13, 2010, 04:25:00 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by NDTerminator:So is allowing something you love to be watered down.
Close mindedness is a bad habit to get into
I'll post more thoughts later.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: ishoot4thrills on February 13, 2010, 04:25:00 PM
Post by: ishoot4thrills on February 13, 2010, 04:25:00 PM
Well said SuperK. I agree on a "balance". I do like "tech talk" but I'm not a "gadget" man. I don't use gadgets to make me a better hunter or a better shooter. I rarely even use scents but I do use calls on occasion. I just use my bow and arrow and silencers(sometimes) and my bow quiver and a finger tab as far as my equipment goes. Oh yes, I use popup blinds and tree stands often also.
But, I do enjoy discussion concerning tech topics. Like FOC and adjusting arrows and/or bows to obtain the best possible arrow flight our bow/arrow combination has to offer.
I don't shoot or own a compound anymore.
I do like to squeeze out everything my stick and string has to offer as long as it's safe and doesn't involve some kind of gadget to get to that plateau. I guess you could say I'm an experimenter and tinkerer.
Am I in balance with the trad crowd or am I gonna be limited in my conversations here based on what I said above? I just need a little more clarification I guess.
But, I do enjoy discussion concerning tech topics. Like FOC and adjusting arrows and/or bows to obtain the best possible arrow flight our bow/arrow combination has to offer.
I don't shoot or own a compound anymore.
I do like to squeeze out everything my stick and string has to offer as long as it's safe and doesn't involve some kind of gadget to get to that plateau. I guess you could say I'm an experimenter and tinkerer.
Am I in balance with the trad crowd or am I gonna be limited in my conversations here based on what I said above? I just need a little more clarification I guess.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Jerry Wald on February 13, 2010, 04:29:00 PM
Post by: Jerry Wald on February 13, 2010, 04:29:00 PM
Firstly thanks Terry for the post...i think we all get caught up in things sometimes and our emotions get the best of us.
I agree and I appologize. I have got caught up in the tech game a bit myself trying to learn as much as I can.....sorry.
I REALLY THINK THE INTERNET HAS CAUSED ALOT OF THIS BUT THAT'S OK - IT HAS ALSO CAUSED ALOT OF GOOD WITHIN THIS SITE....read and I will explain my story...if you have a few minutes ok.
I think your story might be similar and if it isn't maybe you will see where I am coming from.
I do ask questions within certain posts because unlike many ppl on here there is no place else to get any answers.
I know I can tune my equipment ok, but I am always looking to improve and some "HIGH TECH" stuff out there WELL IT ISN"T all that great, but there is some that is.
So if I ask questions it's cause I don't know or are interested in finding out about certain things before I buy or try something new.
When I started using a bow I was 12 - archery shoot at school....we didn't have a competitor in our class group so I took up the challenge.
I was a pitcher in baseball at the time and a partime quarter back on our football team so I think it helped a bit....Bear with me I will get to the point asap.
I didn't have a clue how to shoot and nobody did either....I know now that the arrows weren't straight and they weren't matched to the bow for sure.
I had one day too practice....hmm - so I got real close to the target and shot...I had three arrows. I noticed that they all hit the target somewhere different.
So I marked the ones that hit left - high - and low...backed up shot and I learned how to compensate for each arrow.
Next day we had the competition....I won (amazingly enough). There was one kid that had his own bow too.
So after the competition I was hooked..me and the kid that had his own bow became fast friends and still are 40 years later.
So I asked my dad if I could get a bow....I worked and collected bottles to get the money (dad said yes but that I had to buy it myself).
I got this orange 25# bow ( i put black electrical tape around it at about 1" spacings to make look like a igers tail...funny the things you remember) and wood arrows...some didn't fly so great, but I learned how they flew and I could hit what I aimed at with any arrow.
TECH TIME:
Then they came out with fiberglas arrows...they said that they were tougher and straighter. Of course they were heavier too and my bow would shoot them very fast...so the game would hear the bow and move and the arrow would pass by harmlessly if i was too far away.
but I was stuck with the arrows...why...cause I couldn't try before you buy and I had no place to turn.
Bought a bigger bow later and stuck with it in my teens.
Then I tried a compound...shot it instinctively off the shelf with feathered arrows. Shot pretty good with arrows that didn't match different lengths arrow weight tip weight etc.
Then I met some (tormentor/mentors) ppl and they helped me get proper arrows and showed me how to tune and get the right nock point etc.
BUT THEN THEY SCREWED ME UP.
You need this elevated rest - you need this plunger - you need this sight package with a lighted sight...you need a release - you need a range finder, camo paint - scents - tree stands - camo clothing - scented toilet paper (ok maybe not scented toilet paper).
AND BTW : You need a toolbox now to keep all the things you will need to keep your arrows flying right now.
So I tried all this stuff and finally said screw it.
I DID LEARN SOME THINGS FROM THEM THOUGH and for that I am grateful....learning about tuning a bow was more than I knew about up till then and for that I was greatful.
I got into bow hunting/shooting because it was SIMPLE and FUN...now it was frustrating and NOT FUN.
Are you still with me - hope so - the hope part is coming up.
So I sold all the crap including the toolbox with the bow and bought a basic recurve bow....shot it off the shelf (not even hair rest nothing). It had nothing on it...45# 60" I think and I bought some arrows and tuned them and that was that.
I WAS BACK TO SIMPLE AND FUN!!!!
I shot great I thought, but my hunting distance was close because my arrows didn't seem to group as well past 35 yards so I learned to be sneakier and quieter (I had to improve my form).
Wanted to get a heavier bow...did that...got a Jack Kempf longbow - 54#....tuned it (cost me lots of money cause I couldn't borrow arrows to try, but I got it done)and took a nice black bear that spring.
Didn't know anything about FOC just made them fly as best I could..could they have been tuned better absolutely...never ever bare shafted back them...wouldn't have dreamed of it.
NOW THIS IS MY POINT - THE INTERNET has made things different. We can get good and bad info instantly and in an age of instant gratification it only makes sense that ppl are going to try to get what they want the easiest way possible HENSE MANY TURN TO COMPOUNDS FIRST and maybe they become TRADS LATER...dunno.
The companies of the world have made that OUR purpose...you deserve a break today..well you know what I am talking about.
BUT TRAD HUNTING isn't about that...it is about taking the hard way and constantly learning and trying to improve and I agree....
I was taught that the best experience is someone elses sometimes (put your hand on a hot wood stove as a kid and you would be happy if it was someone elses right) and that we can learn from their successes or failures then it will take us less time and maybe less heartaches and money.
Nothing wrong with that I think. So I again ask questions....I used to shoot aluninums, but you would bend one.....toss it...couldn't trust it anymore.....tried carbons...broke or straight...liked that idea...but they weren't very heavy....asked how to get more weight..weight tubes...tried them didn't like how they flew....then someone said try weighting the tips and the FOC will help (didn't know what that was - start asking questions and resaerching that now)...brass insert - more field tip weight.
I didn't even know you could get tips over 125 grains for years or why you would even need to, but now I do).
I WAS AFRAID TO TRY HEAVIER WEIGHT....but I didn't understand the spine of a carbon arrow...
ALL I knew was if you added to much weight to and aluminum you would have to cut the length or go up a shaft size etc and that always cost me MORE MONEY.
SUMMARY - sorry it's been a long post
BUT THROUGH THIS AWESOME GROUP WE HAVE HERE...you showed me that I could experiment and it would work..again I have nobody here in the yukon to shoot with so it's all on my own.
Then I learned about tapered shafts (carbons) and I am now waiting to try my hand at those..why.
Cause I think I owe to the game I am hunting to do the best possible to harvest them....I shoot lots when I am in hunting mode, but having equipment that YOU TRUST is everything.
LIKE Fred Ichler - He has equipment that he trusts and is proven...do you think it took hima bit of fiddling to get it...probably...do you think he will mess with it...don't think so..but maybe. I think he is happy with his setup and he has proved it works on everything we have here and I salute him for that.
Some of us are still trying to get that bow/arrow combination that is an extension of us. It may take lots of bows and arow combinations to ge there and that is our journey
Flip side of the coin is that some of us will never be satisfied..well that's what makes us all different adn thanks for that.
If I can improve on what I have so beit....I might end up back where I was, but will always try to be the best I can be.
And with your help and encouragement (which is abundant here) I will get there.
Back to my roots (hopefully shooting matched arrows though tee...hee )
SIMPLE and FUN again.
PS
I will consider every post I respond to now or post myself before I hit "ADD REPLY" or "ADD TOPIC" making sure it pertains to TRAD ONLY.
humbly Jer
I agree and I appologize. I have got caught up in the tech game a bit myself trying to learn as much as I can.....sorry.
I REALLY THINK THE INTERNET HAS CAUSED ALOT OF THIS BUT THAT'S OK - IT HAS ALSO CAUSED ALOT OF GOOD WITHIN THIS SITE....read and I will explain my story...if you have a few minutes ok.
I think your story might be similar and if it isn't maybe you will see where I am coming from.
I do ask questions within certain posts because unlike many ppl on here there is no place else to get any answers.
I know I can tune my equipment ok, but I am always looking to improve and some "HIGH TECH" stuff out there WELL IT ISN"T all that great, but there is some that is.
So if I ask questions it's cause I don't know or are interested in finding out about certain things before I buy or try something new.
When I started using a bow I was 12 - archery shoot at school....we didn't have a competitor in our class group so I took up the challenge.
I was a pitcher in baseball at the time and a partime quarter back on our football team so I think it helped a bit....Bear with me I will get to the point asap.
I didn't have a clue how to shoot and nobody did either....I know now that the arrows weren't straight and they weren't matched to the bow for sure.
I had one day too practice....hmm - so I got real close to the target and shot...I had three arrows. I noticed that they all hit the target somewhere different.
So I marked the ones that hit left - high - and low...backed up shot and I learned how to compensate for each arrow.
Next day we had the competition....I won (amazingly enough). There was one kid that had his own bow too.
So after the competition I was hooked..me and the kid that had his own bow became fast friends and still are 40 years later.
So I asked my dad if I could get a bow....I worked and collected bottles to get the money (dad said yes but that I had to buy it myself).
I got this orange 25# bow ( i put black electrical tape around it at about 1" spacings to make look like a igers tail...funny the things you remember) and wood arrows...some didn't fly so great, but I learned how they flew and I could hit what I aimed at with any arrow.
TECH TIME:
Then they came out with fiberglas arrows...they said that they were tougher and straighter. Of course they were heavier too and my bow would shoot them very fast...so the game would hear the bow and move and the arrow would pass by harmlessly if i was too far away.
but I was stuck with the arrows...why...cause I couldn't try before you buy and I had no place to turn.
Bought a bigger bow later and stuck with it in my teens.
Then I tried a compound...shot it instinctively off the shelf with feathered arrows. Shot pretty good with arrows that didn't match different lengths arrow weight tip weight etc.
Then I met some (tormentor/mentors) ppl and they helped me get proper arrows and showed me how to tune and get the right nock point etc.
BUT THEN THEY SCREWED ME UP.
You need this elevated rest - you need this plunger - you need this sight package with a lighted sight...you need a release - you need a range finder, camo paint - scents - tree stands - camo clothing - scented toilet paper (ok maybe not scented toilet paper).
AND BTW : You need a toolbox now to keep all the things you will need to keep your arrows flying right now.
So I tried all this stuff and finally said screw it.
I DID LEARN SOME THINGS FROM THEM THOUGH and for that I am grateful....learning about tuning a bow was more than I knew about up till then and for that I was greatful.
I got into bow hunting/shooting because it was SIMPLE and FUN...now it was frustrating and NOT FUN.
Are you still with me - hope so - the hope part is coming up.
So I sold all the crap including the toolbox with the bow and bought a basic recurve bow....shot it off the shelf (not even hair rest nothing). It had nothing on it...45# 60" I think and I bought some arrows and tuned them and that was that.
I WAS BACK TO SIMPLE AND FUN!!!!
I shot great I thought, but my hunting distance was close because my arrows didn't seem to group as well past 35 yards so I learned to be sneakier and quieter (I had to improve my form).
Wanted to get a heavier bow...did that...got a Jack Kempf longbow - 54#....tuned it (cost me lots of money cause I couldn't borrow arrows to try, but I got it done)and took a nice black bear that spring.
Didn't know anything about FOC just made them fly as best I could..could they have been tuned better absolutely...never ever bare shafted back them...wouldn't have dreamed of it.
NOW THIS IS MY POINT - THE INTERNET has made things different. We can get good and bad info instantly and in an age of instant gratification it only makes sense that ppl are going to try to get what they want the easiest way possible HENSE MANY TURN TO COMPOUNDS FIRST and maybe they become TRADS LATER...dunno.
The companies of the world have made that OUR purpose...you deserve a break today..well you know what I am talking about.
BUT TRAD HUNTING isn't about that...it is about taking the hard way and constantly learning and trying to improve and I agree....
I was taught that the best experience is someone elses sometimes (put your hand on a hot wood stove as a kid and you would be happy if it was someone elses right) and that we can learn from their successes or failures then it will take us less time and maybe less heartaches and money.
Nothing wrong with that I think. So I again ask questions....I used to shoot aluninums, but you would bend one.....toss it...couldn't trust it anymore.....tried carbons...broke or straight...liked that idea...but they weren't very heavy....asked how to get more weight..weight tubes...tried them didn't like how they flew....then someone said try weighting the tips and the FOC will help (didn't know what that was - start asking questions and resaerching that now)...brass insert - more field tip weight.
I didn't even know you could get tips over 125 grains for years or why you would even need to, but now I do).
I WAS AFRAID TO TRY HEAVIER WEIGHT....but I didn't understand the spine of a carbon arrow...
ALL I knew was if you added to much weight to and aluminum you would have to cut the length or go up a shaft size etc and that always cost me MORE MONEY.
SUMMARY - sorry it's been a long post
BUT THROUGH THIS AWESOME GROUP WE HAVE HERE...you showed me that I could experiment and it would work..again I have nobody here in the yukon to shoot with so it's all on my own.
Then I learned about tapered shafts (carbons) and I am now waiting to try my hand at those..why.
Cause I think I owe to the game I am hunting to do the best possible to harvest them....I shoot lots when I am in hunting mode, but having equipment that YOU TRUST is everything.
LIKE Fred Ichler - He has equipment that he trusts and is proven...do you think it took hima bit of fiddling to get it...probably...do you think he will mess with it...don't think so..but maybe. I think he is happy with his setup and he has proved it works on everything we have here and I salute him for that.
Some of us are still trying to get that bow/arrow combination that is an extension of us. It may take lots of bows and arow combinations to ge there and that is our journey
Flip side of the coin is that some of us will never be satisfied..well that's what makes us all different adn thanks for that.
If I can improve on what I have so beit....I might end up back where I was, but will always try to be the best I can be.
And with your help and encouragement (which is abundant here) I will get there.
Back to my roots (hopefully shooting matched arrows though tee...hee )
SIMPLE and FUN again.
PS
I will consider every post I respond to now or post myself before I hit "ADD REPLY" or "ADD TOPIC" making sure it pertains to TRAD ONLY.
humbly Jer
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Rob DiStefano on February 13, 2010, 04:31:00 PM
Post by: Rob DiStefano on February 13, 2010, 04:31:00 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by WESTBROOK:i'll pm ya .......
Sorry Rob, cant resist. The "leading music factory" studio in the USA has no idea what an artist is, just turn on the radio and listen.
The main stream music business is all about glitz, glamour and looking pretty, not music. Funny thing, main stream hunting has followed a parallel path.
Clapton, BB King, Stevie Ray..and other artist have there beloved instruments and would sooner part with most anything else. Granted they could make any thing sound good but its not the same as "Blacky" or "Lucille"
I'll shutup now
Eric
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: LAR43 on February 13, 2010, 04:54:00 PM
Post by: LAR43 on February 13, 2010, 04:54:00 PM
Terry,
I've been watching this slowly develop for the last year or so . . .
Also been at trad archery (when it was only archery)longer than most here have been alive. . .
I can't agree with you more.
You ain't cranky you're dead nutz on! Thanks!
It's long overdue.
Larry
I've been watching this slowly develop for the last year or so . . .
Also been at trad archery (when it was only archery)longer than most here have been alive. . .
I can't agree with you more.
You ain't cranky you're dead nutz on! Thanks!
It's long overdue.
Larry
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Buckeye Trad Hunter on February 13, 2010, 04:56:00 PM
Post by: Buckeye Trad Hunter on February 13, 2010, 04:56:00 PM
:notworthy:
The reasons that Trad Gang was started were the same reasons I got into trad archery and eventually became a member of Trad Gang.
The reasons that Trad Gang was started were the same reasons I got into trad archery and eventually became a member of Trad Gang.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: BowHuntingFool on February 13, 2010, 05:00:00 PM
Post by: BowHuntingFool on February 13, 2010, 05:00:00 PM
Great post Terry.
If I wanted to overthink and over analyze things I would of stuck with a compound. The romance is the simplicity of my longbow is what really draws me. My arrow flies straight..... Hits where I look..... I personally don't want my bow to shoot any faster, I love watching my arrow drop right into the pocket, there's nothing like it! I love this place, let's keep it real!
If I wanted to overthink and over analyze things I would of stuck with a compound. The romance is the simplicity of my longbow is what really draws me. My arrow flies straight..... Hits where I look..... I personally don't want my bow to shoot any faster, I love watching my arrow drop right into the pocket, there's nothing like it! I love this place, let's keep it real!
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Gray Buffalo on February 13, 2010, 05:00:00 PM
Post by: Gray Buffalo on February 13, 2010, 05:00:00 PM
you got it brother. Well said
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Danny Rowan on February 13, 2010, 05:02:00 PM
Post by: Danny Rowan on February 13, 2010, 05:02:00 PM
Terry,
Thank you, I too have been bothered by this. Love this site for what it started as and It is my home away from home and about the only site I visit.
Now I have not read all seven pages but I do agree we need to get away from all the tech topics. What new device will make you a better hunter does not belong here. What skills make you a better hunter does.
Danny
Thank you, I too have been bothered by this. Love this site for what it started as and It is my home away from home and about the only site I visit.
Now I have not read all seven pages but I do agree we need to get away from all the tech topics. What new device will make you a better hunter does not belong here. What skills make you a better hunter does.
Danny
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Mudd on February 13, 2010, 05:12:00 PM
Post by: Mudd on February 13, 2010, 05:12:00 PM
Thank you Terry!!
Some discussions about new techniques or materials may be important to a degree but it got to the point I couldn't understand what was being said.. Well maybe that's more me and my lack of.... whatever it is that lets one understand complicated terminology.
But, one thing is for sure..... Mudd's no techie by any stretch of the imagination.
However, I am willing to try stuff as long as it get me closer to the animal I want to kill and it's not trying to help me kill it from further away.
Ok I've said enough.... thanks for pointing out where the tracks are... I'll try to keep up from now on.
Thanks again for the leadership Terry and tell those who helped you thanks for me too. I do appreciate them as much as anyone for their efforts as well.
There's no "I" in Tradgang" and yet it's all on us. We just need guidance from time to time!! It was "time"!
God bless,Mudd
Some discussions about new techniques or materials may be important to a degree but it got to the point I couldn't understand what was being said.. Well maybe that's more me and my lack of.... whatever it is that lets one understand complicated terminology.
But, one thing is for sure..... Mudd's no techie by any stretch of the imagination.
However, I am willing to try stuff as long as it get me closer to the animal I want to kill and it's not trying to help me kill it from further away.
Ok I've said enough.... thanks for pointing out where the tracks are... I'll try to keep up from now on.
Thanks again for the leadership Terry and tell those who helped you thanks for me too. I do appreciate them as much as anyone for their efforts as well.
There's no "I" in Tradgang" and yet it's all on us. We just need guidance from time to time!! It was "time"!
God bless,Mudd
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Bill Carlsen on February 13, 2010, 05:16:00 PM
Post by: Bill Carlsen on February 13, 2010, 05:16:00 PM
Rob: A really good musician knows the difference between a good instrument and a superior instrument....and talent is different than knowledge...but marry the two and you have something special. But given the choice would the musician knowingly choose to play an inferior instrument than one he knows is superior? And that is my point...how can too much knowledge about how bows and arrows work hurt an archer in ANY way? Please explain that to me.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: BCWV on February 13, 2010, 05:25:00 PM
Post by: BCWV on February 13, 2010, 05:25:00 PM
I guess my wife is right, I don't pay much attention. I haven't noticed this movement towards being too technical. I still don't know what's going on.
Skinny strings and single bevel broadheads have been mentioned. I do like skinny strings but am not interested in single bevel broadheads so i don't read those post. But the folks that are into single bevel do. That's fine by me.
I choose to shoot 540 grn wood arrows out of a 48# bow and shoot side by side with guys in our club who shoot metal riser 40# recurves and 300 grn carbons. They shoot flater than me but I choose to use my hunting setup. It's all good as far as I'm concerned.
I must be missing something cause I don't see it. Can someone help a brother out and explain what post are wrong?
Thanks
Brad
Skinny strings and single bevel broadheads have been mentioned. I do like skinny strings but am not interested in single bevel broadheads so i don't read those post. But the folks that are into single bevel do. That's fine by me.
I choose to shoot 540 grn wood arrows out of a 48# bow and shoot side by side with guys in our club who shoot metal riser 40# recurves and 300 grn carbons. They shoot flater than me but I choose to use my hunting setup. It's all good as far as I'm concerned.
I must be missing something cause I don't see it. Can someone help a brother out and explain what post are wrong?
Thanks
Brad
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: NDTerminator on February 13, 2010, 05:25:00 PM
Post by: NDTerminator on February 13, 2010, 05:25:00 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by Terry Green:Commendable but somewhat nebulous response. It also sounds suspiciously like a warning to those who don't share your specific beliefs...
QuoteOriginally posted by NDTerminator:So is allowing something you love to be watered down.
Close mindedness is a bad habit to get into
[/b]
Rather than getting all haired up & circling the Trad wagons which will create a needless & senseless divide, I might suggest adding a "tuning forum" where we who are interested in such things can discuss them...
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: SpikeMaster on February 13, 2010, 05:25:00 PM
Post by: SpikeMaster on February 13, 2010, 05:25:00 PM
I agree 100%. Terry, your advice in the shooters forum has done more to make me a better shot than any piece of equipment ever has. It's all about the man behind the bow, not the bow and the arrow itself.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: The Vanilla Gorilla on February 13, 2010, 05:37:00 PM
Post by: The Vanilla Gorilla on February 13, 2010, 05:37:00 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by NDTerminator:I might suggest adding a "tuning forum" where we who are interested in such things can discuss them... [/QB][/QUOTE]
.
That would be the shooters forum, right?
I never really noticed the increase in the amount of the threads in question. But if it dont interest me, I skip it. I try to keep the science out of traditional archery. I tend to make it complicated anyway, no matter how simple it is!
What I have noticed is that there's definitely a lack of huntin stories and pics lately, and thats what most of us like the most. Pics of the end result!
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Terry Green on February 13, 2010, 05:43:00 PM
Post by: Terry Green on February 13, 2010, 05:43:00 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by NDTerminator:I'm gonna run my household like I see fit....and if I wanna get all haired up and nebulous then so be it.
[Commendable but somewhat nebulous response. It also sounds suspiciously like a warning to those who don't share your specific beliefs...
Rather than getting all haired up & circling the Trad wagons which will create a needless & senseless divide, I might suggest adding a "tuning forum" where we who are interested in such things can discuss them...
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Spectre on February 13, 2010, 05:45:00 PM
Post by: Spectre on February 13, 2010, 05:45:00 PM
werd
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: DVSHUNTER on February 13, 2010, 05:56:00 PM
Post by: DVSHUNTER on February 13, 2010, 05:56:00 PM
I think that some ofthese posts about this vs that are a bit out of control. It seems to me that these people seem to have good intentions. It is humaan nature to improve everything. It is what we do. I love this site and seldom go to any of the others. I have noticed the trend sliding more to the tuning/shooting side than the hunting side lately. Maybe sending a few of these posts to the shooting forum would clear up pow wow. I know you moderators work hard to keep tradgang what you want it to be and I apperciate that as I am a hunter more than a shooter. Tpoics are clearly defined at the top of everypage and it seems easy enough to follow the rules. I try to all the time. There are those that don't and they are clogging up places that don't need their topics.
I firmly think that we as a group need these tuning and setup tpoics because I have seen first hand the horrifying shots and sideways flying arrows from people that don't have the right setup. I t makes me cring when they tell me they shoot at animals that way. They NEED HELP. Basically all my rambling comes down to just put it in the right forum, or just delete it. It is probably to much work for the mods to police all the time so maybe we as members can steer it the right direction by lettingthem know where to post and by not replying to the posts. I saw a post just a day ago about someones awesome woodburning art. Not a thing to do with bowhunting and it had THREE PAGES before it was deleted.
I firmly think that we as a group need these tuning and setup tpoics because I have seen first hand the horrifying shots and sideways flying arrows from people that don't have the right setup. I t makes me cring when they tell me they shoot at animals that way. They NEED HELP. Basically all my rambling comes down to just put it in the right forum, or just delete it. It is probably to much work for the mods to police all the time so maybe we as members can steer it the right direction by lettingthem know where to post and by not replying to the posts. I saw a post just a day ago about someones awesome woodburning art. Not a thing to do with bowhunting and it had THREE PAGES before it was deleted.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: ishoot4thrills on February 13, 2010, 06:02:00 PM
Post by: ishoot4thrills on February 13, 2010, 06:02:00 PM
So, are we gonna start being totally "tech free" now? I just need some clarification, please. I just wanna know so I can adjust accordingly. :confused: :banghead: :)
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Biggie Hoffman on February 13, 2010, 06:04:00 PM
Post by: Biggie Hoffman on February 13, 2010, 06:04:00 PM
Terry, I don't think you have to explain anything to anyone here. This is a private site that allows others to sign up and participate.
Edit out whatever YOU deem editible and those that stomp their feet and disagree can go to the other sites.
Edit out whatever YOU deem editible and those that stomp their feet and disagree can go to the other sites.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Terry Green on February 13, 2010, 06:05:00 PM
Post by: Terry Green on February 13, 2010, 06:05:00 PM
I think a few...just a few have missed my point.
I am not talking about 'new stuff' on the market. New bows or bow materials, new string materials, arrow material, etc. etc.
I'm talking about a mentality of 'paralysis by analysis'. And, forgetting the most important basics of tuning and shooting, and the true lethality of the Trad Bow in the hands of a skilled and accurate woodsman. Missing the music for all the static. Even some new guys have posted here and on other posts that they are overwhelmed at all the tech chat that they themselves are confused.
That is my point.
I am not talking about 'new stuff' on the market. New bows or bow materials, new string materials, arrow material, etc. etc.
I'm talking about a mentality of 'paralysis by analysis'. And, forgetting the most important basics of tuning and shooting, and the true lethality of the Trad Bow in the hands of a skilled and accurate woodsman. Missing the music for all the static. Even some new guys have posted here and on other posts that they are overwhelmed at all the tech chat that they themselves are confused.
That is my point.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: joebuck on February 13, 2010, 06:14:00 PM
Post by: joebuck on February 13, 2010, 06:14:00 PM
:clapper: :clapper: :clapper:
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: xtrema312 on February 13, 2010, 06:15:00 PM
Post by: xtrema312 on February 13, 2010, 06:15:00 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by Terry Green:I think this post drives your point home better than the first one.
I think a few...just a few have missed my point.
I am not talking about 'new stuff' on the market. New bows or bow materials, new string materials, arrow material, etc. etc.
I'm talking about a mentality of 'analysis by paralysis'. And, forgetting the most important basics of tuning and shooting, and the true lethality of the Trad Bow in the hands of a skilled and accurate woodsman. Missing the music for all the static. Even some new guys have posted here and on other posts that they are overwhelmed at all the tech chat that they themselves are confused.
That is my point.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: jhg on February 13, 2010, 06:16:00 PM
Post by: jhg on February 13, 2010, 06:16:00 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by Biggie Hoffman:I think he kind of opened the door to having to do that by starting the thread.
Terry, I don't think you have to explain anything to anyone here.
I especially appreciate whatever efforts Terry takes to forward his point of view. It helps me understand the why and the what for. It helps me pull the wagon, in whatever small way I can help pull it. The day he feels he never wants to do that I'll probably just drift off. The fact he still trys to stay "real" makes the place a lot more welcoming to us new to this great sport.
Regarding the shooters forum and that that is the "place" to post tech stuff I'd disagree. One of my first mistakes posting here on Tradgang was asking a tech question about arrows there. Its a shooting forum, not a tech forum.
Great thread BTW. And did I say how much I enjoy trad archery and Tradgang? And I think we all care about it. (tradgang)
Joshua
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: adirondack46r on February 13, 2010, 06:22:00 PM
Post by: adirondack46r on February 13, 2010, 06:22:00 PM
Sadly in the internet age the written word is cheap. There's a whole lot more typing than reading going on. I for one have been on here long enough to know that there are a few guys who take game regularly with their trad equipment - I read what they post. I also know there are more than a few who have spent a grand total of a day and a half in a treestand, but that doesn't stop them from dishing out advice like they were Fred Bear reincarnate.
If you kill deer year after year (and most of us know who you are, and it ain't me) I'll read what you post. If you are a wanna be (and for the most part we know who you are) I'll skip right on by. Nothing personal. I just learned who was killin' and who was blowing smoke a long time ago.
If you kill deer year after year (and most of us know who you are, and it ain't me) I'll read what you post. If you are a wanna be (and for the most part we know who you are) I'll skip right on by. Nothing personal. I just learned who was killin' and who was blowing smoke a long time ago.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Steve B. on February 13, 2010, 06:22:00 PM
Post by: Steve B. on February 13, 2010, 06:22:00 PM
What would help alot is if people would use the "search" before posting, read through the history of threads on the subject, and then actually go out and try for themselves what they're working on....then come back and ask questions.
There are many, "which is best xxx", or " X vs. Y, which would you choose" threads, when it has been stated adnauseum that bows and arrows have to be tested by each individual before deciding which is best for that person.
There are many, "which is best xxx", or " X vs. Y, which would you choose" threads, when it has been stated adnauseum that bows and arrows have to be tested by each individual before deciding which is best for that person.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: FerretWYO on February 13, 2010, 06:26:00 PM
Post by: FerretWYO on February 13, 2010, 06:26:00 PM
Valid concerns and I agree. I have been seeing the same old arguing and the same old what about this thing what about that.
Good Call.
Good Call.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: JEFF B on February 13, 2010, 06:29:00 PM
Post by: JEFF B on February 13, 2010, 06:29:00 PM
:clapper: :clapper: :clapper:
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Rob DiStefano on February 13, 2010, 06:31:00 PM
Post by: Rob DiStefano on February 13, 2010, 06:31:00 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by Bill Carlsen:bill, pm headed yer way ....
Rob: A really good musician knows the difference between a good instrument and a superior instrument....and talent is different than knowledge...but marry the two and you have something special. But given the choice would the musician knowingly choose to play an inferior instrument than one he knows is superior? And that is my point...how can too much knowledge about how bows and arrows work hurt an archer in ANY way? Please explain that to me.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: twostrings on February 13, 2010, 06:34:00 PM
Post by: twostrings on February 13, 2010, 06:34:00 PM
I love it Terry. Thanks.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: FerretWYO on February 13, 2010, 06:37:00 PM
Post by: FerretWYO on February 13, 2010, 06:37:00 PM
After reading a lot of these posts I am entertained. I have learned a lot from this site and I have got into the tech conversations as well. I will not play the my way is better than your way game.
Terry I think you are just trying to say that we need to remember why we are here? Is that correct.
Terry I think you are just trying to say that we need to remember why we are here? Is that correct.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Terry Green on February 13, 2010, 06:38:00 PM
Post by: Terry Green on February 13, 2010, 06:38:00 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by Rob DiStefano:I'll take a stab at that one....just like the other day a new guy to trad said 'knowledge is power'.
QuoteOriginally posted by Bill Carlsen:bill, pm headed yer way .... [/b]
how can too much knowledge about how bows and arrows work hurt an archer in ANY way? Please explain that to me.
It is....ONLY if you can apply it!!!! If all you do is gain knowledge and you never learn to apply it in the field or it hinders you from applying it...its worthless.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: LongStick64 on February 13, 2010, 06:40:00 PM
Post by: LongStick64 on February 13, 2010, 06:40:00 PM
It's a hard habit to break, especially from some of us that started in the wheelie world. What's hard to understand is the complex nature it is to compare bows even the same make and model with the variations involved in making the custom bow. Compound shooters are able to compare models because of the precision and materials used to make them.
It took my awhile to accept that there isn't a fact true method to compare trad bows except by shooting them myself and letting my testing answer the questions.
It is one of the true pleasures of this sport, that we can each have an identity in our equipment of choice. What works for me is what counts. It doesn't mean it should for you.
It took my awhile to accept that there isn't a fact true method to compare trad bows except by shooting them myself and letting my testing answer the questions.
It is one of the true pleasures of this sport, that we can each have an identity in our equipment of choice. What works for me is what counts. It doesn't mean it should for you.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Al Kidner on February 13, 2010, 06:43:00 PM
Post by: Al Kidner on February 13, 2010, 06:43:00 PM
If I may include to most people....new and old that the 'Search' function is always a fine tool in research...
Cheers,
ak.
Cheers,
ak.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Steve B. on February 13, 2010, 06:43:00 PM
Post by: Steve B. on February 13, 2010, 06:43:00 PM
I'm having my own side-thread here, I know, but at least I'm listening to me.
The other day another "skinny string" thread came up and I was moved to search to see how many other similar threads had been posted lately. Here's what I got.
All I typed into the search was "string". This is just page ONE:
Ok, imagine a list of threads having to do with strings and most of them being circled by me and then at the top is an infinite number of pages to select, also circled by me to bring one's attention there.
I then did a search on "single bevel" and got 5 pages with 90% having to do with performance questions.
(http://i588.photobucket.com/albums/ss327/SteveBush1/strings.jpg)
The other day another "skinny string" thread came up and I was moved to search to see how many other similar threads had been posted lately. Here's what I got.
All I typed into the search was "string". This is just page ONE:
Ok, imagine a list of threads having to do with strings and most of them being circled by me and then at the top is an infinite number of pages to select, also circled by me to bring one's attention there.
I then did a search on "single bevel" and got 5 pages with 90% having to do with performance questions.
(http://i588.photobucket.com/albums/ss327/SteveBush1/strings.jpg)
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: ishiwannabe on February 13, 2010, 06:48:00 PM
Post by: ishiwannabe on February 13, 2010, 06:48:00 PM
I think you are doing a fine job explaining your point Terry. Some seem to be taking it personally, and I can understand that too. But I agree with Biggie. Your house, your rules type of thing.
Im not going to pretend to be full of knowledge when it comes to traditional bows, arrows or tuning. I get my set up as good as I can, and I even managed to take my first deer this year.
That is totally due to TG and it's members. I have always been a good hunter, but this place helped me ge to be a good traditional archer. I thank you all for that.
I did a search of skinny strings, just to see. It stopped because it reached 300. Some15 pages of threads, all about the same topic relatively. Im sure the same can be found with other topics....three blades vs two, etc. My point is, most of it is all repeating information that has already been stated or shared, making the job of the mods tougher. Volume created just in these few topics is overwhelming.
Just throwing this out there to try to broaden the perspective. I think a tremendous amount of works gets done here by the mods, and it isnt really considered by the majority of "us".
I, for one, wouldnt be "trad" if it wasnt for this site, and my friends that I have met through here(nevr thought I could be accurate enough). For that, and all the work you mods do, thank you.
Im not going to pretend to be full of knowledge when it comes to traditional bows, arrows or tuning. I get my set up as good as I can, and I even managed to take my first deer this year.
That is totally due to TG and it's members. I have always been a good hunter, but this place helped me ge to be a good traditional archer. I thank you all for that.
I did a search of skinny strings, just to see. It stopped because it reached 300. Some15 pages of threads, all about the same topic relatively. Im sure the same can be found with other topics....three blades vs two, etc. My point is, most of it is all repeating information that has already been stated or shared, making the job of the mods tougher. Volume created just in these few topics is overwhelming.
Just throwing this out there to try to broaden the perspective. I think a tremendous amount of works gets done here by the mods, and it isnt really considered by the majority of "us".
I, for one, wouldnt be "trad" if it wasnt for this site, and my friends that I have met through here(nevr thought I could be accurate enough). For that, and all the work you mods do, thank you.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: joevan125 on February 13, 2010, 06:52:00 PM
Post by: joevan125 on February 13, 2010, 06:52:00 PM
Terry after speaking to you a few moments ago i have a lot of respect for you and i just want to say THANK YOU TERRY and im on your side.
I will help in any way i can to make this site the best it can be.
JVK
I will help in any way i can to make this site the best it can be.
JVK
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Tsalagi on February 13, 2010, 06:55:00 PM
Post by: Tsalagi on February 13, 2010, 06:55:00 PM
Tery, I stand up and applaud what you just said in the first post of this thread. You, sir, have my admiration. I agree 100%. Too much emphasis on stuff that comes in a package and price tag rather than the stuff bound in flesh, bones, and brains. I tend to think people get into this rut of believing advertising that insinuates they'll be a better hunter if they buy Thus-N-So Brand Broadhead when we have several thousands of years of people who were great hunters using a knapped flint head on a heat-straightened hardwood shoot shaft with self-nocks.
I think, Terry, you have done a great service posting this. New people come to traditional archery looking for something challenging and something simpler and relatively gadget-free. To read, "Nope, ya gotta have the BuckWhackaExtremeSharperThanScalpelsMagnum50MegatonIntercontinentalBallisticBroadhead broadhead!" or else they're going to wound some animal that'll die a lingering death or miss entirely must be very discouraging.
There really is plenty to "tinker" with in tradarchery without going down Rube Goldberg Avenue to buy all kinds of trinkets and gadgets. Try painting each arrow individually. Make quivers and decorate them. Or, better, get out and shoot!
I think, Terry, you have done a great service posting this. New people come to traditional archery looking for something challenging and something simpler and relatively gadget-free. To read, "Nope, ya gotta have the BuckWhackaExtremeSharperThanScalpelsMagnum50MegatonIntercontinentalBallisticBroadhead broadhead!" or else they're going to wound some animal that'll die a lingering death or miss entirely must be very discouraging.
There really is plenty to "tinker" with in tradarchery without going down Rube Goldberg Avenue to buy all kinds of trinkets and gadgets. Try painting each arrow individually. Make quivers and decorate them. Or, better, get out and shoot!
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: centaur on February 13, 2010, 07:02:00 PM
Post by: centaur on February 13, 2010, 07:02:00 PM
Maybe I have been mistaken, but I thought that most of us were in this sport for the simplicity and the challenge, kind of like fishing with dry flies as opposed to fishing with fish finders and all other techno gear. Shooting and hunting with trad stuff gives me pleasure and for a while, I am 12 years old again, just watching those cedar arrows fly; a very simple concept, but at the same time very fulfilling. Terry, I am with you; I don't need a bunch of techy stuff to make me happy. I just enjoy long walks in the woods with a simple bow and simple arrows, and if I happen to score on an animal, it makes that time in the woods all the better.
Traditional archery and trad bowhunting is what you make it, but somehow having to have the latest and greatest whiz bang thingy for our trad setups seems to defeat the purpose of why we do this in the first place.
By the way, what the hell is a 'skinny string' anyhow???
Traditional archery and trad bowhunting is what you make it, but somehow having to have the latest and greatest whiz bang thingy for our trad setups seems to defeat the purpose of why we do this in the first place.
By the way, what the hell is a 'skinny string' anyhow???
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Rufus on February 13, 2010, 07:07:00 PM
Post by: Rufus on February 13, 2010, 07:07:00 PM
Traditional archery here. I guess there be compound sites, I don't know, never looked. The last time I shot a compound computers were room sized and not on my list of things to have. So, I agree, if we're going to be traditional, let's be so.
Thanks Terry!
Thanks Terry!
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: gregg dudley on February 13, 2010, 07:13:00 PM
Post by: gregg dudley on February 13, 2010, 07:13:00 PM
Glad I had a fresh bottle of diet mountain dew when I sat down to read this thread!
Amen, Terry!
I thought it was just me that was noticing the trend. It is amazing to me how fast the ever spawning and often repeated tech questions have been pushing the real hunting threads to page three in the last six months or so.
I do think that the reason that performance threads are so rampant is because of the large number of people who are picking up a trad bow for the first time. I think that these threads probably can just be moved to the shooter's forum and we will all be a lot happier.
I also agree that we need to politely refer people to the search function when appropriate.
Amen, Terry!
I thought it was just me that was noticing the trend. It is amazing to me how fast the ever spawning and often repeated tech questions have been pushing the real hunting threads to page three in the last six months or so.
I do think that the reason that performance threads are so rampant is because of the large number of people who are picking up a trad bow for the first time. I think that these threads probably can just be moved to the shooter's forum and we will all be a lot happier.
I also agree that we need to politely refer people to the search function when appropriate.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Terry Green on February 13, 2010, 07:20:00 PM
Post by: Terry Green on February 13, 2010, 07:20:00 PM
Gregg...can't move em to the shooters forum....if you go there, you will see what I have to go through to keep that forum 'for the act of shooting'. Some folks just will not read the guildlines even though they are posted all over the place.
There's a guys, new guy, that's posted there twice today asking for all squirrel footage to be posted on his thread. He also posted asking what arrows are best on the bowyers bench. Maybe he's had one too many Mt Dews!!!
Anyway, that forum is designated for folks to learn how to shoot, and I try and keep in on topic so there wont be any wading through stuff to get to the meat and potatoes....so we can't sweep anything in there.
How's the Global Warming in FL :biglaugh:
There's a guys, new guy, that's posted there twice today asking for all squirrel footage to be posted on his thread. He also posted asking what arrows are best on the bowyers bench. Maybe he's had one too many Mt Dews!!!
Anyway, that forum is designated for folks to learn how to shoot, and I try and keep in on topic so there wont be any wading through stuff to get to the meat and potatoes....so we can't sweep anything in there.
How's the Global Warming in FL :biglaugh:
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: mcgroundstalker on February 13, 2010, 07:26:00 PM
Post by: mcgroundstalker on February 13, 2010, 07:26:00 PM
Thanks Terry! You're Right On Target!
... mike ...
... mike ...
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: broketooth on February 13, 2010, 07:26:00 PM
Post by: broketooth on February 13, 2010, 07:26:00 PM
mr terry this site is my favorite website. ive learned alot about archery here first.granted i dont get to go on any of the high dollar hunts as some of the more fortunate ones here but i do get to learn from their stories of their hunts, i also dont get to hunt as much as i would like to, seeing the awesome harvests are what keeps me goin. first off i love to shoot. i also like to watch others shoot . you can learn alot from it, plus i,m absolutly fascinated with the flight of an arrow.what i dont really care to see is a bunch of nit picky hooha over which is the next best thing or this vs. that, its kinda like beatin a dead horse and ya end up nowhere. ive been shooting trad for 14yrs or so and i'll tell ya ive had the most fun this past season and learned alot i cant wait for what is in store for me next you have a great site and i hope things can be done to improve and make it better :clapper:
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: jhg on February 13, 2010, 07:27:00 PM
Post by: jhg on February 13, 2010, 07:27:00 PM
Quote...I also agree that we need to politely refer people to the search function when appropriate. [/QB]I'd agree with that, especialy since the site has a great search feature. Whenever I suggested the poster ck the archives it usually got ignored or trampled. I was never backed up by a senior member. So I thought I'd made some kind of mistake and kept quiet after that.
It would help if those of you who see things drifting and have been here a long time step up. Don't sit back until Terry brings it up to say something about it. Take some responsibility.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: leatherneck on February 13, 2010, 07:27:00 PM
Post by: leatherneck on February 13, 2010, 07:27:00 PM
Guys/gals, take a look back. This post was started a little over 8 hours ago and it's already 10+ pages long. It appears there is about 99% supporting what Terry wants. In my eyes, talk is cheap! It's his house and we need to respect it. So now we need to just DO IT! I have seen people post on this thread that have not been on here for a while for whatever good reason they may have. Great to see you all again. It's also great to see everyone come together and talk trad again. Yes, thats what we are doing on this post folks, talking trad. Thats all the man wants on HIS web page is for everyone to talk trad.
Who wants to go kill something? :saywhat:
Mike
Who wants to go kill something? :saywhat:
Mike
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: CallMaker on February 13, 2010, 07:28:00 PM
Post by: CallMaker on February 13, 2010, 07:28:00 PM
Compounds....Balderdash!!!!
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Terry Green on February 13, 2010, 07:30:00 PM
Post by: Terry Green on February 13, 2010, 07:30:00 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by leatherneck:Yep.....that's been a major concern as well.
I have seen people post on this thread that have not been on here for a while for whatever good reason they may have. :saywhat:
Mike
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: leatherneck on February 13, 2010, 07:32:00 PM
Post by: leatherneck on February 13, 2010, 07:32:00 PM
AIN'T NO GLOBAL WARMING HERE IN OHIO!!!! Got a cot handy Gregg, I'm sick of the snow.
Mike
Mike
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: joe ashton on February 13, 2010, 07:33:00 PM
Post by: joe ashton on February 13, 2010, 07:33:00 PM
:thumbsup:
This is one great site.. Thanks...
Joe
This is one great site.. Thanks...
Joe
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: gregg dudley on February 13, 2010, 07:38:00 PM
Post by: gregg dudley on February 13, 2010, 07:38:00 PM
I don't hardly go to the shooter's forum so I am sure you are right. When people start talking about how they shoot I walk away as fast as I can. I shoot bad enough without people adding to my confusion.
I ain't been warm since I went to Texas and the weather followed me home. :help: If I found a den of rattlesnakes like Skyler and Chase did I would crawl in it for warmth.!["[dntthnk]"]("graemlins/dntthnk.gif" "\"\"")
I ain't been warm since I went to Texas and the weather followed me home. :help: If I found a den of rattlesnakes like Skyler and Chase did I would crawl in it for warmth.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: leatherneck on February 13, 2010, 07:41:00 PM
Post by: leatherneck on February 13, 2010, 07:41:00 PM
quote:
Originally posted by gregg dudley:
:scared:
Sorry Terry, didn't mean to get off topic.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: LoneWolf73 on February 13, 2010, 07:49:00 PM
Post by: LoneWolf73 on February 13, 2010, 07:49:00 PM
Yes things are going in the wrong direction.
Trad Tech can be like a tire rut, it only takes you where the road goes, not where you want to go.
Good luck "Cat Herder". LOL
Trad Tech can be like a tire rut, it only takes you where the road goes, not where you want to go.
Good luck "Cat Herder". LOL
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: FerretWYO on February 13, 2010, 07:56:00 PM
Post by: FerretWYO on February 13, 2010, 07:56:00 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by gregg dudley:That my friend is an act of desperation. SEnd me an address and I will sent you some wool sock or hot hands or somthing. I dont want you crawling in a den with rattle snakes. I hope to meet you one day.
I ain't been warm since I went to Texas and the weather followed me home. :help: If I found a den of rattlesnakes like Skyler and Chase did I would crawl in it for warmth.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: pitbull on February 13, 2010, 07:57:00 PM
Post by: pitbull on February 13, 2010, 07:57:00 PM
Terry you are 100% right, this is still the best site around. Simplicity is the beauty of trad archery. Actually I have shot, hunted with, and been sucessful with every type of archery gear available. This is not because of any gadgets, it is because of woodsmanship and countless hours of practice, scouting and preparing my gear. There are no short cuts to success, and nothing better than doing it with traditional gear.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: gregg dudley on February 13, 2010, 08:05:00 PM
Post by: gregg dudley on February 13, 2010, 08:05:00 PM
Randy, I have a feeling our paths will cross on one hunt or the other. If not by chance we'll make it happen. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: ishoot4thrills on February 13, 2010, 08:06:00 PM
Post by: ishoot4thrills on February 13, 2010, 08:06:00 PM
I'm beginning to think that Terry isn't really against "tech talk" as it relates to achieving good arrow flight and penetration on game and tuning bows in general in order to accomplish our goals. I think he's venting his frustration against people being too pushy and having a "my way is best" mentality and spending way too much time and space delving into performance comparisons and things(read gadgets) that don't make us better trad hunters and/or shooters. And we're doing it in the Powow forum. If I'm incorrect in this assumption then maybe we can have a new forum topic for those that wish to explore those things or learn a thing or two about the technical side of trad archery? After all, the "Bowyer's Bench" has many topics on tech stuff but that doesn't mean it's not trad related.
Am I way off base here? :confused:
Am I way off base here? :confused:
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: BOWMARKS on February 13, 2010, 08:11:00 PM
Post by: BOWMARKS on February 13, 2010, 08:11:00 PM
:clapper: :clapper:
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Red Beastmaster on February 13, 2010, 08:21:00 PM
Post by: Red Beastmaster on February 13, 2010, 08:21:00 PM
I skip threads about FOC, skinny strings, performance enhancing, single bevel, etc. I'm sure there is a whole lot of interest by some but not me. I just skip ahead to the next thread.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: TNstickn on February 13, 2010, 08:36:00 PM
Post by: TNstickn on February 13, 2010, 08:36:00 PM
:thumbsup:
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: FerretWYO on February 13, 2010, 08:37:00 PM
Post by: FerretWYO on February 13, 2010, 08:37:00 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by gregg dudley::thumbsup:
Randy, I have a feeling our paths will cross on one hunt or the other. If not by chance we'll make it happen. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Tsalagi on February 13, 2010, 08:42:00 PM
Post by: Tsalagi on February 13, 2010, 08:42:00 PM
Well, I don't really know what a "skinny string" is. Never read those threads. I still don't know what a skinny string is and don't feel curious enough to find out. When I needed a string, I always just mailed the string length, type of bow, colors and if it was B50 or FF I wanted along with the money to Linda Brackenbury and was always 100% happy with her work. I kept seeing all these threads for "single bevel" broadheads and had to read one to see what it was. I don't see the point (har, har, pardon the pun)---but that's just me. When I make arrows, I shoot them. Those that fly good and accurate are good. Those that don't become stumpers. But they don't become stumpers until I figure out it's the arrow and not me having an issue.
Too much techie tinker and Rube Goldberg is enough to drive a person, as my father's people say, meshugge. Really, if you look at some things from archery's past, they had a lot of gadgets that didn't make the cut and they're not around here anymore because of that. I mean, look at some of the wacky broadheads from several decades ago. Notice how, traditionally speaking, the things that survived are still used and still very effective like the basic two-blade broadhead, for instance. There's a thing called a point of dimishing returns when adding more gives you less in return. I think in traditional archery, we reached the point of diminishing returns some time back. Whatever trinket appears on the market now does one thing and one thing only effectively well---it separates the buyer from his hard-earned money.
Too much techie tinker and Rube Goldberg is enough to drive a person, as my father's people say, meshugge. Really, if you look at some things from archery's past, they had a lot of gadgets that didn't make the cut and they're not around here anymore because of that. I mean, look at some of the wacky broadheads from several decades ago. Notice how, traditionally speaking, the things that survived are still used and still very effective like the basic two-blade broadhead, for instance. There's a thing called a point of dimishing returns when adding more gives you less in return. I think in traditional archery, we reached the point of diminishing returns some time back. Whatever trinket appears on the market now does one thing and one thing only effectively well---it separates the buyer from his hard-earned money.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: rickshot on February 13, 2010, 08:43:00 PM
Post by: rickshot on February 13, 2010, 08:43:00 PM
Here, here! Thanks for sharing...hope it does something for what keeps running around in my head.
I wish everyone the simple satisfaction of having a decent bow and fine arrows. It really takes so little from the equipment side of the equation. What awaits is far more consuming, on a personal level...and of far more interest, IMO. Rick.
I wish everyone the simple satisfaction of having a decent bow and fine arrows. It really takes so little from the equipment side of the equation. What awaits is far more consuming, on a personal level...and of far more interest, IMO. Rick.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Froggy on February 13, 2010, 08:44:00 PM
Post by: Froggy on February 13, 2010, 08:44:00 PM
Great site.. Thanks Terry and all that keep it what it is.. :thumbsup: :campfire:
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: AdamH on February 13, 2010, 08:48:00 PM
Post by: AdamH on February 13, 2010, 08:48:00 PM
Not to ruffle any feathers, but how do the rest of the "Mods" feel about this, just Curious ...
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: lilbobby on February 13, 2010, 09:00:00 PM
Post by: lilbobby on February 13, 2010, 09:00:00 PM
Great site, I've learned alot and still have alot to learn at 56. One of the reasons I got into traditional archery is it simplicity and peacefulness, I think Terry's right!
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Barney on February 13, 2010, 09:05:00 PM
Post by: Barney on February 13, 2010, 09:05:00 PM
A friend told me a looooong time ago when I first started shooting a bow....
Your first week or 2 will probably be your best shooting cause you don't know enough to mess with your head.....then you'll start trying new things even though it doesn't make you shoot better. This is when you'll shoot your worst. Then you'll settle back in......
I've always thought he was right.
Your first week or 2 will probably be your best shooting cause you don't know enough to mess with your head.....then you'll start trying new things even though it doesn't make you shoot better. This is when you'll shoot your worst. Then you'll settle back in......
I've always thought he was right.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: highnoonhunter on February 13, 2010, 09:17:00 PM
Post by: highnoonhunter on February 13, 2010, 09:17:00 PM
I read an analogy of bows to a music instrument somewhere in all this........ and it had some merit.
But to a beginner, or even intermediate musician, they likely couldn't or wouldn't know the difference between an inexpensive or expensive instrument until they learned the basics, or even more so, got into the actual "being able to play stage".
I feel it's the same with archery. Sure, I feel that TECH is needed. But all the TECH you can muster ain't worth squat unless you know how to use it or what to do with it.
Don't post much here anymore.... but read the posts daily. This is the best post I've read in a while!
hnh
But to a beginner, or even intermediate musician, they likely couldn't or wouldn't know the difference between an inexpensive or expensive instrument until they learned the basics, or even more so, got into the actual "being able to play stage".
I feel it's the same with archery. Sure, I feel that TECH is needed. But all the TECH you can muster ain't worth squat unless you know how to use it or what to do with it.
Don't post much here anymore.... but read the posts daily. This is the best post I've read in a while!
hnh
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Bill Carlsen on February 13, 2010, 09:18:00 PM
Post by: Bill Carlsen on February 13, 2010, 09:18:00 PM
Terry: I think now I get what you are getting at. I often look at some of the threads and wonder where some of the posters have been. There is an awful lot of duplication of some topics. However, to be fair and this is just my observation, is that some of you moderators have fed into some of this. For example, take Dr. Ashby's reports....I have not seen on any other site the hype that he gets on Tradgang. You guys have even dedicated a special section to his findings and continue to add to it....at least the last time I looked. He is everywhere, TBM, etc. I think that his technical findings are fine as far as they go and I think, in all honesty, enough of him please. His point is well made in his very first reports and all his previous reports have not, for ME, have added any new insights.
However, I do have to say that Tradgang is probably one site where the average guy can go and get technical advice on any number of subjects if they just take the time to find it. The HOW TO forum is one example. I can't count on all my fingers and toes how many folks I have directed to Tradgang forums (from other sites) for such things as twisted bow limbs, how to make strings, how to sharpen various heads, etc. Don't forget, you have over 20,000 members and not all of them log on every day so it is pretty clear to me that certain things are going to be asked over and over again. And I will admit, I sometimes get glassy-eyed making the same recommendations over and over again based on my experience. I don't know what the answer is but when I start to feel a bit worn out by it all I just am thankful that you have so many members and so many newbies. Perhaps we are not a dying breed...and your list of sponsors grows every week, it seems.
So, I say, whenever you have a crisis you are also handed an opportunity if you care to view it that way. Hunting with trad archery equipment is tough....so is running your website. How can we members be helpful?
As for things getting too technical sometimes....don't quite know what to say. Archery is full of physics, geometry, and science.....which I find to be quite interesting....and fun!!!! It is not as simple as some would like it to be. It's like learning music or learning to play a musical instrument. I'm restarting guitar lessons from when I was a kid. I thought I knew a bit but I found a teacher from Berklee and now I know how much I don't know. If I look at it as a challenge it is fun. If I keep thinking that there is too much to learn it depresses me....so I opt for the fun aspect. Somewhere in here is a connection to archery....there is more to it than meets the eye if you want to do it well, I suppose, and some people just don't want to do the work and they keep asking the same questions, getting the same answers and who knows what they do when they log off?
In part I think some of your frustration is that you may be not be seeing the forest for all the trees.....20,000+ members and you are still growing. You are doing a lot of things well...what can we do to keep it that way?
However, I do have to say that Tradgang is probably one site where the average guy can go and get technical advice on any number of subjects if they just take the time to find it. The HOW TO forum is one example. I can't count on all my fingers and toes how many folks I have directed to Tradgang forums (from other sites) for such things as twisted bow limbs, how to make strings, how to sharpen various heads, etc. Don't forget, you have over 20,000 members and not all of them log on every day so it is pretty clear to me that certain things are going to be asked over and over again. And I will admit, I sometimes get glassy-eyed making the same recommendations over and over again based on my experience. I don't know what the answer is but when I start to feel a bit worn out by it all I just am thankful that you have so many members and so many newbies. Perhaps we are not a dying breed...and your list of sponsors grows every week, it seems.
So, I say, whenever you have a crisis you are also handed an opportunity if you care to view it that way. Hunting with trad archery equipment is tough....so is running your website. How can we members be helpful?
As for things getting too technical sometimes....don't quite know what to say. Archery is full of physics, geometry, and science.....which I find to be quite interesting....and fun!!!! It is not as simple as some would like it to be. It's like learning music or learning to play a musical instrument. I'm restarting guitar lessons from when I was a kid. I thought I knew a bit but I found a teacher from Berklee and now I know how much I don't know. If I look at it as a challenge it is fun. If I keep thinking that there is too much to learn it depresses me....so I opt for the fun aspect. Somewhere in here is a connection to archery....there is more to it than meets the eye if you want to do it well, I suppose, and some people just don't want to do the work and they keep asking the same questions, getting the same answers and who knows what they do when they log off?
In part I think some of your frustration is that you may be not be seeing the forest for all the trees.....20,000+ members and you are still growing. You are doing a lot of things well...what can we do to keep it that way?
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Terry Green on February 13, 2010, 09:28:00 PM
Post by: Terry Green on February 13, 2010, 09:28:00 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by Bill Carlsen:No Bill....I can't see the TREES because of all the FOREST. Read that again. :campfire:
In part I think some of your frustration is that you may be not be seeing the forest for all the trees.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Butch Speer on February 13, 2010, 09:32:00 PM
Post by: Butch Speer on February 13, 2010, 09:32:00 PM
Sounds good to me Terry.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: ishoot4thrills on February 13, 2010, 09:33:00 PM
Post by: ishoot4thrills on February 13, 2010, 09:33:00 PM
Bill Carlsen.........very well said. I totally agree 100%. I've been tryin' to say the same thing but I haven't been able to do it as good as you.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: mountain trapper on February 13, 2010, 09:33:00 PM
Post by: mountain trapper on February 13, 2010, 09:33:00 PM
NO COMPOUNDS! This is ironic as I was discussing with one of my friends today that it really does seem that technology is being shoved down our throats wither we want it or not! Lets not have that here, surely there must be some place of refuge for "us" Luddites?!
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: TradBowyer on February 13, 2010, 09:43:00 PM
Post by: TradBowyer on February 13, 2010, 09:43:00 PM
what attracted me to this site a few years ago was the "building" side of archery. Come winter time, the majority of posts were self bows, primitive arrows, build a longs, etc. Loved it. Ferret, Dano, Timo, etc would ramp up the build a long posts and it was just a smorgasboard. This site has changed a lot since then. Don't see much of that anymore. Not to be critical here at all cause theres nothing wrong with this, but i see this site as more as the Stickbow site now without the name calling. Just my two cents
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: ishoot4thrills on February 13, 2010, 09:55:00 PM
Post by: ishoot4thrills on February 13, 2010, 09:55:00 PM
#2 of the three goals of TradGang.com, "2. To create a friendly atmosphere to all. Dedicated to the discussion of all topics that relate to traditional bowhunting."
So I guess what has to be defined is exactly what does "all topics that relate to traditional bowhunting" mean? Are we saying all topics except those related to technology? Technology has a broad definition. A B50 Dacron bow string is a technological advancement over say, a string made of hemp or sinew. A bow with glass lamination is a tech advancement over a solid hickory bow, not to say it's better, but it's more tech advanced. A high FOC weighted arrow is a technological discovery and most would agree through experimentation that it works. We discover and learn through technology. There's no way to avoid it. So if we're going to have discussions about traditional archery, then there has to be some discussion that includes technology.
So I guess what has to be defined is exactly what does "all topics that relate to traditional bowhunting" mean? Are we saying all topics except those related to technology? Technology has a broad definition. A B50 Dacron bow string is a technological advancement over say, a string made of hemp or sinew. A bow with glass lamination is a tech advancement over a solid hickory bow, not to say it's better, but it's more tech advanced. A high FOC weighted arrow is a technological discovery and most would agree through experimentation that it works. We discover and learn through technology. There's no way to avoid it. So if we're going to have discussions about traditional archery, then there has to be some discussion that includes technology.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: ishoot4thrills on February 13, 2010, 09:56:00 PM
Post by: ishoot4thrills on February 13, 2010, 09:56:00 PM
Check the Bowyer's Bench, TradBowyer. I see it there quite a bit.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Chuck Hoopes on February 13, 2010, 10:00:00 PM
Post by: Chuck Hoopes on February 13, 2010, 10:00:00 PM
Thanks for saying it Terry. I hope to see some changes around here. Most of this obessive tech talk is in my IMO--the little end of nothing,whittled down to a fine point. I don't have anything against anyone who chooses to shoot a compound, but I have found that shooting w/them at 3D shoots, their obbession with equip, twiking etc. fretting, just sucks the joy out of it for me. I don't shoot w/them any more. This tech obessive tech talk here, has a similar effect and IMO detracts from the simple joy of a low tech approach, which is what traditional archery is grounded in. Perhaps some should take time to recall what attracted them to trad. initally-- I doubt it was the tech. aspect. Reading/re-reading books like "The Witchery of Archery" would re kindle the spirit-the exhuberence,of trad. archery-- not alot of aniexty about equip. to be found in their adventures. I think all this tech talk eats away at the heart of trad. archery - its increase is Compound Baggage. Iam disturbed by it, in the same way I am shooting w/compounders on the 3D course-- Sucks the life right out of it.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Icandraw on February 13, 2010, 10:11:00 PM
Post by: Icandraw on February 13, 2010, 10:11:00 PM
I don't post here much but I do check this site out everyday, if but for a few minutes. I got into trad archery several years ago and have learned a lot from this site. I also enjoy reading the hunting storys and wishing I could be there. The majority of people on this site seem to be really nice and friendly folks willing to help those who are trying to learn. I know every site is not that way! I have to agree I don't like all the gadgetry and techno stuff. Thats why I like trad & primitive archery. I have also enjoyed learning how to make some of my own equipment the last couple of years. I know that the best thing that can improve my hunting and shooting is trying to improve the idiot holding the bow...ME! :) Stay with your original vision Terry and thanks for a great site! :thumbsup: :clapper:
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: WESTBROOK on February 13, 2010, 10:31:00 PM
Post by: WESTBROOK on February 13, 2010, 10:31:00 PM
Doug, I dont think it is the discussion of technology that is the issue, its the amount/redundancy of the technology based topics. Somedays POW WOW looks like you went to the "increase you bows performance by 10%" forum.
A new guy looks at all that and thinks " I thought they said this was supposed to be a simpler way"
Chuck Hoopes...well put
Eric
A new guy looks at all that and thinks " I thought they said this was supposed to be a simpler way"
Chuck Hoopes...well put
Eric
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: StickBowManMI on February 13, 2010, 10:32:00 PM
Post by: StickBowManMI on February 13, 2010, 10:32:00 PM
I agree Terry! I enjoy the posts that deal with building bows and arrows and leathercraft. To me the speed of a bow is not as important as the feel of the bow when it is shot. I think that bowhunting is a close range thing and it requires you to increase your hunting and stalking skills to get close. I hunt only from the ground and very much enjoy it that way. You have created a great site here and I for one certainly appreciate it and your efforts. Thanks for your efforts!
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: BTW on February 13, 2010, 10:36:00 PM
Post by: BTW on February 13, 2010, 10:36:00 PM
Great thread Terry! I love my Dad, but I've lost track of how many times I've told him to stop worrying about the technical side of our sport and focus on hunting. I don't care how fast, quiet, pretty, etc. your bow is. How sharp your broadheads are, etc.; If you can't find or get close to the critters, none of that matters. He'll say, "I swear my bow is making more noise today!", I'll say,"you're nuts, just hunt for once." LOL
I've gotten a kick outta the "skinny string" threads lately. 5fps there, 10fps here, high frequency, low frequency, chronographs, noise meters, etc. Wow, it's funny.
But, to each his own. It's all good. Let's just have fun and tinker n hunt! We're a good crowd to be a part of.
I love traditional archery because of it's simplicity. For hunting. But the tinkering side is fun too...to an extent.
I've gotten a kick outta the "skinny string" threads lately. 5fps there, 10fps here, high frequency, low frequency, chronographs, noise meters, etc. Wow, it's funny.
But, to each his own. It's all good. Let's just have fun and tinker n hunt! We're a good crowd to be a part of.
I love traditional archery because of it's simplicity. For hunting. But the tinkering side is fun too...to an extent.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Pat B on February 13, 2010, 10:53:00 PM
Post by: Pat B on February 13, 2010, 10:53:00 PM
Thanks Terry for keeping TradGang as it was originally intended.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: eddings220 on February 13, 2010, 11:02:00 PM
Post by: eddings220 on February 13, 2010, 11:02:00 PM
Hey Terry, you make some really good points and observations. The one word that really jumps out at me is "woodmanship". Growing up here in western Ky., it is a word that I have heard all my life from my grandfather and my Dad. Reading sign and knowing various types of trees, snakes, tracks, etc. was something that seemed to be more important than the "high tech" aspect of equipment rather it be bows or guns. The main thing was could you hit what you are shooting at, cause that would bring home supper. I am in the process of trying to teach my 11 year old son "woodsmanship" and it has been somewhat difficult due to I think the fact that we are living in the age of technology. I find myself drawn to the stories on this site of those that make their own bows and knapp their own arrowheads, and then take a deer or other animal. Spot and stalk with a traditional bow takes woodsmanship and patience, no better or more exciting way to hunt.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Jason Jelinek on February 13, 2010, 11:08:00 PM
Post by: Jason Jelinek on February 13, 2010, 11:08:00 PM
Terry,
You've got to be kidding me...
I like this site for things I can learn. The stories and pictures are great but it's the stuff I learn (hunting techniques, equipment or shooting techinique) that keeps me coming back.
If you want to limit the content of this site go ahead... I can wade through the content and pick out the diamonds, I guess not all can. It sounds like many want just what they think should be here and nothing else.
Do what you must.
Jason
You've got to be kidding me...
I like this site for things I can learn. The stories and pictures are great but it's the stuff I learn (hunting techniques, equipment or shooting techinique) that keeps me coming back.
If you want to limit the content of this site go ahead... I can wade through the content and pick out the diamonds, I guess not all can. It sounds like many want just what they think should be here and nothing else.
Do what you must.
Jason
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: NightHawk on February 13, 2010, 11:10:00 PM
Post by: NightHawk on February 13, 2010, 11:10:00 PM
same reason I hate watching hunting shows!! They all say if you don't have this gadget or that whiz bang, your not going to be successful. Glad to see it being monitored here, I've tried to avoid those threads
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: mountain trapper on February 13, 2010, 11:49:00 PM
Post by: mountain trapper on February 13, 2010, 11:49:00 PM
I'm happy as long as we stay away from compounds and crossbows. If some one wants to hunt with them, fine, but they already have sites for that so why talk about it here?
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: trashwood on February 13, 2010, 11:49:00 PM
Post by: trashwood on February 13, 2010, 11:49:00 PM
Well here is the good news. it is not all that hard to figure out....least for me. I post what I am doing or what I am interested in.
I don't have a chip on my shoulder (well i really, a bone spur). so if "they" don't like it they pull it. OK by me......that was not what they are after :) . Maybe next post will fair better. I have always let Terry and the Mods sweat the small stuff.....like posting rules. My job is to follow my interest, have a good time, try to be nice and apropriate to other posters.
It is not hard for me to sort the the threads that insterest me. There are some posters i always look for their wit and sense of humor. some poster I look for because of their expertise and some I look for because they can actually write.
I can well say that the "A" poster don't get enough credit. I can think of quite a few posts that took a lot of time to get good pics, write up a readable report, get the presentation ready, up load of the graphics and I enjoyed reading a lot.....well that is the only point I disagree with Terry on....yep it is his house and he gets to say......but to read the "A" posters is why I come back
rusty
I don't have a chip on my shoulder (well i really, a bone spur). so if "they" don't like it they pull it. OK by me......that was not what they are after :) . Maybe next post will fair better. I have always let Terry and the Mods sweat the small stuff.....like posting rules. My job is to follow my interest, have a good time, try to be nice and apropriate to other posters.
It is not hard for me to sort the the threads that insterest me. There are some posters i always look for their wit and sense of humor. some poster I look for because of their expertise and some I look for because they can actually write.
I can well say that the "A" poster don't get enough credit. I can think of quite a few posts that took a lot of time to get good pics, write up a readable report, get the presentation ready, up load of the graphics and I enjoyed reading a lot.....well that is the only point I disagree with Terry on....yep it is his house and he gets to say......but to read the "A" posters is why I come back
rusty
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Mr.Vic on February 13, 2010, 11:57:00 PM
Post by: Mr.Vic on February 13, 2010, 11:57:00 PM
:thumbsup: Thanks for letting me be a guest here on your site for the last few years, Terry. I too came here for the simplicity of Traditional Archery. And anymore in this world, i can agree with Biggie. Don't like the bed, check into somewhere else.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: artifaker1 on February 14, 2010, 12:13:00 AM
Post by: artifaker1 on February 14, 2010, 12:13:00 AM
I got to say that I'm surprised by all the people who claim to be unhappy with the site. I was having a great time. But I only look at the threads that I find interesting. I can't imagine why all these people are looking at threads that they claim they don't like. It doesn't make sense.
I don't do this (archery/bowhunting) because it is easy, I do it because it is hard. And studying your gear is not necessarily a bad thing, some do seek to better themselves on a constant basis and it can be annoying to others I guess. The studying kind of people are the ones who brought us all this cool stuff and that is always going to be there.
But it has been getting a little weird too I guess. But what is going to be too techy?
I don't do this (archery/bowhunting) because it is easy, I do it because it is hard. And studying your gear is not necessarily a bad thing, some do seek to better themselves on a constant basis and it can be annoying to others I guess. The studying kind of people are the ones who brought us all this cool stuff and that is always going to be there.
But it has been getting a little weird too I guess. But what is going to be too techy?
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Vig on February 14, 2010, 12:21:00 AM
Post by: Vig on February 14, 2010, 12:21:00 AM
Here's some irony: I'm sitting here staring at my 19" HD flatscreen computer reading about a rant on the internet by a bunch of "traditionalists" griping that the online "discussions" are getting too techie. Sounds to me like we all need to get off the computer and shoot our bows some more.
Maybe then we'll see that another .05% FOC or that getting the exact 25 degree angle on my single-bevel edge doesn't make a hoot of difference if I can't get a buck to walk under my stand.
-Vig
Maybe then we'll see that another .05% FOC or that getting the exact 25 degree angle on my single-bevel edge doesn't make a hoot of difference if I can't get a buck to walk under my stand.
-Vig
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: LC on February 14, 2010, 12:26:00 AM
Post by: LC on February 14, 2010, 12:26:00 AM
Well once again I'm confused. Sorry doesn't take much for me. Actually it's all making alot of sense or cents lately. I agree it's your yard and ball so we play by your rules or go home. Problem is the rules keep changing. I can only imagine how tuff it is to keep a site like this working and seriously have got to commend you on doing it.
I've learned ALOT here through the years. Don't actually post much only when I have something to add. I've watched alot of threads go through that don't interest me in the slightest and just go on. I guess that simple process don't work for alot of folks here. I've never bought into alot of the tech things or the latest FAD bow, gadget etc.
I'm confused where you WILL DRAW THE LINE from now on? Right now theres a thread "2 thumbs up to Terry Green" thats 2 pages that has absolutely nothing to do with trad bowhunting but hasn't been pulled.Why?
I've sent alot of folks here to learn to spin a endless string on the how to forum but I honestly don't think it's listed there anymore, but Rob has a video on how to spin a Skinny string? Why?
Heck the knife forum use to be a bunch of ol bowhunters making knives from old circular saw blades and files but it's been taken over by sponsors and it you don't have $1500 belt sander and using "known" steel with specific quenchent for the steel don't bother posting cause your gona get a chewing. Why?
Ah heck I could go on but one last thing, you've got 13 pages averaging 15 posts per page praising or worshing you but you've got 18,000 out their going HUGH WTF?
I agree totally most beginners should work on the basics of form,stand placement,woodsmanship, reading sign, but I gotta be perfectly honest when I see a thread stating "OK heres a topo of my lease where should I put my stand or bait pile" I just sigh and go on.
So seriously where do you draw the line in? No more ILF or WARF threads,no more EFOC, no more skinny string threads, heck no more no new bow threads that boost how they are better than older bows.
It would get pretty dry here just rehashing the same ol same ol all the time in my opinion. After reading alot of the posts here I get the feeling alot of folks have came to trad bowhunting because it's simple.Grab a bow some arrows(don't have to be matched) have a ball and go sling some arrows. Thats all well and good till you go to a 3-d shoot and you see them same guys having a ball missing a deer target five times at 15 yards laughing it up and then talking about going hunting. Maybe they do need to learn how to get the most out of their bows and themselves. And those that punch the kill zone regularyly maybe they want to learn how to consistently get the most out of their equip and become a even better bowhunter. Just my opinon.
I've learned ALOT here through the years. Don't actually post much only when I have something to add. I've watched alot of threads go through that don't interest me in the slightest and just go on. I guess that simple process don't work for alot of folks here. I've never bought into alot of the tech things or the latest FAD bow, gadget etc.
I'm confused where you WILL DRAW THE LINE from now on? Right now theres a thread "2 thumbs up to Terry Green" thats 2 pages that has absolutely nothing to do with trad bowhunting but hasn't been pulled.Why?
I've sent alot of folks here to learn to spin a endless string on the how to forum but I honestly don't think it's listed there anymore, but Rob has a video on how to spin a Skinny string? Why?
Heck the knife forum use to be a bunch of ol bowhunters making knives from old circular saw blades and files but it's been taken over by sponsors and it you don't have $1500 belt sander and using "known" steel with specific quenchent for the steel don't bother posting cause your gona get a chewing. Why?
Ah heck I could go on but one last thing, you've got 13 pages averaging 15 posts per page praising or worshing you but you've got 18,000 out their going HUGH WTF?
I agree totally most beginners should work on the basics of form,stand placement,woodsmanship, reading sign, but I gotta be perfectly honest when I see a thread stating "OK heres a topo of my lease where should I put my stand or bait pile" I just sigh and go on.
So seriously where do you draw the line in? No more ILF or WARF threads,no more EFOC, no more skinny string threads, heck no more no new bow threads that boost how they are better than older bows.
It would get pretty dry here just rehashing the same ol same ol all the time in my opinion. After reading alot of the posts here I get the feeling alot of folks have came to trad bowhunting because it's simple.Grab a bow some arrows(don't have to be matched) have a ball and go sling some arrows. Thats all well and good till you go to a 3-d shoot and you see them same guys having a ball missing a deer target five times at 15 yards laughing it up and then talking about going hunting. Maybe they do need to learn how to get the most out of their bows and themselves. And those that punch the kill zone regularyly maybe they want to learn how to consistently get the most out of their equip and become a even better bowhunter. Just my opinon.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: SteveL on February 14, 2010, 12:26:00 AM
Post by: SteveL on February 14, 2010, 12:26:00 AM
I don't post much, but I sure as heck learn a ton, technical and otherwise, from all the archers who are gracious enough to respond to my and others questions.
I'm with Mr. Jelinek and LC on this one.
You are correct sir, this is your site. Do what you will.
I'm with Mr. Jelinek and LC on this one.
You are correct sir, this is your site. Do what you will.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: BowsnLabs on February 14, 2010, 12:29:00 AM
Post by: BowsnLabs on February 14, 2010, 12:29:00 AM
Terry - I haven't read this whole thread but have to agree with your opening post. As a long-time member, I've noticed the slow change over time as well. This is still a great site with some of the best folks around, but Tradgang doesn't feel as "unique" as it used to compared to all those other sites. It is easy to get drawn into the "latest and greatest" gadget-quest, but I've found that in the end this is just a distraction from the simplicity and tradition of what makes traditional bowhunting such a rewarding path to take. Greg
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Steve Kendrot on February 14, 2010, 01:22:00 AM
Post by: Steve Kendrot on February 14, 2010, 01:22:00 AM
I don't think you can avoid this. Ther are so many choices one can make. Look how many bowyers, broadhead ans arrow manufacturers etc there are. Any time you have choices, people are going to have favorites and they will defend them. It seems like like it is really the behavior rather than the topic that is getting people riled. Making certain subjects taboo will only enflame and divide. I would suggest that enforcing the rules of civility would maintain the spirit of tradgang more than limiting the topic of discussion. I personally think the "who makes the best bow" threads are the most pointless and oft repeated threads. I just pass em by. I think folks should be able to choose what to read and participate in but be held accountable when they break the rules of civility clearly stated on the forum.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: sagebrush on February 14, 2010, 01:40:00 AM
Post by: sagebrush on February 14, 2010, 01:40:00 AM
"Thanks for letting me be a guest here on your site for the last few years, Terry. I too came here for the simplicity of Traditional Archery. And anymore in this world, i can agree with Biggie. Don't like the bed, check into somewhere else."
I agree with Mr. Vic. This is your site Terry. There are a lot of people here because of the way you run it. You can't please all the people all the time, but you do pretty good. Gary
I agree with Mr. Vic. This is your site Terry. There are a lot of people here because of the way you run it. You can't please all the people all the time, but you do pretty good. Gary
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: LoweBow on February 14, 2010, 01:43:00 AM
Post by: LoweBow on February 14, 2010, 01:43:00 AM
Being somewhat new to the site I just kinda figured that's what it was all about. Yeah I've been registered here for while, but I used to check in and then just kind of wandered away and did my own thing. In the past few months i started revisiting the site again and must say have been very confused by what I thought the site was about. I too figured it was mostly about tuning and performance. I too like utilizing the search and newer threads to help me figure new arrow matches for new bows, but wondered why there was no real discussion about management, habitat, treestand setups, funnels, etc and that is a huge part of what I love.
I love shooting trad archery, but I'm not a shooter..I'm a hunter 1st. I'm all about the whole game of taking animals w/ trad archery equipment....how to get them in range, how to identify and/or create funnels, food sources....This IMO is what has been missing for me here and has caused me to search it out elsewhere...
Don't get me wrong..I love reading the successful hunt stories and seeing the pics, but there's not enough real discussion on what it takes to consistantly harvest game w/ your equipment.
I love shooting trad archery, but I'm not a shooter..I'm a hunter 1st. I'm all about the whole game of taking animals w/ trad archery equipment....how to get them in range, how to identify and/or create funnels, food sources....This IMO is what has been missing for me here and has caused me to search it out elsewhere...
Don't get me wrong..I love reading the successful hunt stories and seeing the pics, but there's not enough real discussion on what it takes to consistantly harvest game w/ your equipment.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Ragnarok Forge on February 14, 2010, 01:44:00 AM
Post by: Ragnarok Forge on February 14, 2010, 01:44:00 AM
Terry,
I have to both agree and disagree. I agree that there has been a lot of what you have been mentioning going on. I have to disagree that getting rid of all the tech stuff is a good idea. Lots of folks enjoy it and learn from it.
What I have seen is that lots of guys who don't want to read or hear about the tech stuff constantly post their views against it on tech posts in a very repetitive manner. While they are welcome to their opinions, I would bet they are the ones who also are feeling like things have changed. Every time I hop on here I read some posts and avoid others. Simple enough to self police.
I think that one possible solution would be to create a tech forum and let the folks who are interested in posting and reading up go there. ya, I know easy form me to say, I don't have to do any of the work.
I definately agree that we all need to remember that we like and shoot is personal and not for everyone. We all need to make sure we don't have a chip on our shoulders. Just because others like and support their ways and preferences does not mean they are knocking mine.
I have to both agree and disagree. I agree that there has been a lot of what you have been mentioning going on. I have to disagree that getting rid of all the tech stuff is a good idea. Lots of folks enjoy it and learn from it.
What I have seen is that lots of guys who don't want to read or hear about the tech stuff constantly post their views against it on tech posts in a very repetitive manner. While they are welcome to their opinions, I would bet they are the ones who also are feeling like things have changed. Every time I hop on here I read some posts and avoid others. Simple enough to self police.
I think that one possible solution would be to create a tech forum and let the folks who are interested in posting and reading up go there. ya, I know easy form me to say, I don't have to do any of the work.
I definately agree that we all need to remember that we like and shoot is personal and not for everyone. We all need to make sure we don't have a chip on our shoulders. Just because others like and support their ways and preferences does not mean they are knocking mine.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: tradtusker on February 14, 2010, 02:47:00 AM
Post by: tradtusker on February 14, 2010, 02:47:00 AM
Come on Fellas
I Think alot of guys are missing Terry's Point, or miss interpreting what he typed.
take a positive and practical outlook and read it Carefully again... Twice :campfire:
I Think alot of guys are missing Terry's Point, or miss interpreting what he typed.
take a positive and practical outlook and read it Carefully again... Twice :campfire:
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: tradtusker on February 14, 2010, 02:50:00 AM
Post by: tradtusker on February 14, 2010, 02:50:00 AM
QuoteOriginally posted by Terry Green:
Not sure how we are going to handle it...but I'm chatting with some of the charter members about the site taking on more of a compound mentality, and I'm not going to let that go any farther. I'm not knocking compounds or folks that hunt with compounds. I wouldn't trad my compound years for nothing.....those years made me a better hunter when I gave up gun powder. But I got into trad to push myself even further. For more personal satisfaction of what I did than what my equipment helped me do....or 'supposedly' helped me do. Instead of 'looking' for an edge, I started creating an edge.
It looks as though many folks are way more worried over the 'performance' of their equipment than the performance of their own self. What once use to be more 'self improvement' questions as the norm here, now as of late, seem to be more 'equipment fix' discussions. It really does sound like the 'must have/gotta have - make you a better hunter' battle cry of the equipment hype in other facets of hunting.
I see the same threads and same arguing over and over and over. Some even have a rabid agenda to cram it down folks throats, and even call others unethical if they don't 'do as I say'. Even going as far as taking personal pot shots at those that 'don't abide by the new fangled fix'. Most of the folks that argue over equipment don't even congratulate other's when they post a successful hunt. They seems to be more worried over what broadhead someone use than the ten pointer they posted or HOW they succeeded on taking him....or his set up....or what clues tipped him off to his pattern.
Why is it that folks do not want to improve themselves instead of using a crutch that often is made of straw?
Nothing is going to get you closer to an animal but YOU. Nothing is going help you draw the bow at the perfect time but YOU. Nothing is going to make that arrow go into the vitals but YOU.
I just saw GMMATT's question...."Shooting with a pack on"?....I've seen this guy ask question after question....and all he seems to be worried about is his self improvement. That's the way it use to be here. Not to say there there shouldn't or wont be equipment discussions....but they have been running amok lately, and we are going to do something about it since its seems to be causing too much divisiveness.
When is the last time you've seen a guy put up a pic of his property and ask for stand location advice based on the terrain? This use to be pretty normal along with many other scouting questions and tips threads.
I don't know if its just me this morning or what, maybe I shouldn't be posting this, but this is just not what I see, but many of the guys I hunt with and many that have been frequenting this site for years have been bothered by the direction lately. Something to think about folks. I am not trying to slam anyone, or single anyone out....just calling a spade a spade. Maybe we should all take a minute to look in the mirror....me included!
Do we really want to rely more on our equipment than ourselves? Do we really want some other gadget to dull our woodsman ship? Do we really want to argue over a broadhead to the point that we don't work on our shooting skills?
Trad Gang started with a vision and it grew and grew and grew....and that vision is not going to fade or morph into something that wasn't intended. Not on my watch.
What say ye?
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Thumper Dunker on February 14, 2010, 04:11:00 AM
Post by: Thumper Dunker on February 14, 2010, 04:11:00 AM
:clapper:
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Marty on February 14, 2010, 04:25:00 AM
Post by: Marty on February 14, 2010, 04:25:00 AM
People come and go in our lives- traditional archery has pretty much been a constant for me for the last 20+ years so ii think I'll just go get in a tree this morning. You'all go talk about it..........
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: James on laptop on February 14, 2010, 04:47:00 AM
Post by: James on laptop on February 14, 2010, 04:47:00 AM
Hey I just read the threads that interest me and skip the others.I like to hunt but it is not a 12 month thing and I like all the other things about archery as well.
Trad bows are pretty simple but the more you know about how something really works the simplier it becomes. I am sure I will find topics I like and those I will pass on with whatever rules you set down for the website.Always have. :)
Trad bows are pretty simple but the more you know about how something really works the simplier it becomes. I am sure I will find topics I like and those I will pass on with whatever rules you set down for the website.Always have. :)
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Trab on February 14, 2010, 06:34:00 AM
Post by: Trab on February 14, 2010, 06:34:00 AM
Hey Terry,
I see on page one of this topic, you apologized in case you possibly seeming edgy............No need to apologize. In fact I kind of think you, being one of the founding fathers of this AWESOME forum, apologizing for pointing out that people have diverted from the original intent of TRADGANG, would be no different than Thomas Jefferson apologizing for pointing out that those who are pushing the country in a direction away from the original intent of our early documents was not such a great thing, after authoring the Declaration of Independence and a being a major contributor of the Constitution.......in other words, I reckon an apology ain't quite really needed..... :) ..... :readit:
I am now a mere one year vet of TRADGANG and when I check out the topics every couple of days, I definitely filter through much of the technical comparison stuff and seek out more of the personal skill and advice type topics.....I find them more fun, helpful, and enjoyable to read....in addition, they simplify the Art of Traditional Hunting, which is ultimately why I am a seeker of the art myself in the 1st place.......
Trab
I see on page one of this topic, you apologized in case you possibly seeming edgy............No need to apologize. In fact I kind of think you, being one of the founding fathers of this AWESOME forum, apologizing for pointing out that people have diverted from the original intent of TRADGANG, would be no different than Thomas Jefferson apologizing for pointing out that those who are pushing the country in a direction away from the original intent of our early documents was not such a great thing, after authoring the Declaration of Independence and a being a major contributor of the Constitution.......in other words, I reckon an apology ain't quite really needed..... :) ..... :readit:
I am now a mere one year vet of TRADGANG and when I check out the topics every couple of days, I definitely filter through much of the technical comparison stuff and seek out more of the personal skill and advice type topics.....I find them more fun, helpful, and enjoyable to read....in addition, they simplify the Art of Traditional Hunting, which is ultimately why I am a seeker of the art myself in the 1st place.......
Trab
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: frassettor on February 14, 2010, 06:46:00 AM
Post by: frassettor on February 14, 2010, 06:46:00 AM
QuoteOriginally posted by Terry Green:All I can say Terry is that I agree 110%! I love to read the stories, and the journeys that it took to get to where they are now,or how they harvested that animal.
Not sure how we are going to handle it...but I'm chatting with some of the charter members about the site taking on more of a compound mentality, and I'm not going to let that go any farther. I'm not knocking compounds or folks that hunt with compounds. I wouldn't trad my compound years for nothing.....those years made me a better hunter when I gave up gun powder. But I got into trad to push myself even further. For more personal satisfaction of what I did than what my equipment helped me do....or 'supposedly' helped me do. Instead of 'looking' for an edge, I started creating an edge.
It looks as though many folks are way more worried over the 'performance' of their equipment than the performance of their own self. What once use to be more 'self improvement' questions as the norm here, now as of late, seem to be more 'equipment fix' discussions. It really does sound like the 'must have/gotta have - make you a better hunter' battle cry of the equipment hype in other facets of hunting.
I see the same threads and same arguing over and over and over. Some even have a rabid agenda to cram it down folks throats, and even call others unethical if they don't 'do as I say'. Even going as far as taking personal pot shots at those that 'don't abide by the new fangled fix'. Most of the folks that argue over equipment don't even congratulate other's when they post a successful hunt. They seems to be more worried over what broadhead someone use than the ten pointer they posted or HOW they succeeded on taking him....or his set up....or what clues tipped him off to his pattern.
Why is it that folks do not want to improve themselves instead of using a crutch that often is made of straw?
Nothing is going to get you closer to an animal but YOU. Nothing is going help you draw the bow at the perfect time but YOU. Nothing is going to make that arrow go into the vitals but YOU.
I just saw GMMATT's question...."Shooting with a pack on"?....I've seen this guy ask question after question....and all he seems to be worried about is his self improvement. That's the way it use to be here. Not to say there there shouldn't or wont be equipment discussions....but they have been running amok lately, and we are going to do something about it since its seems to be causing too much divisiveness.
When is the last time you've seen a guy put up a pic of his property and ask for stand location advice based on the terrain? This use to be pretty normal along with many other scouting questions and tips threads.
I don't know if its just me this morning or what, maybe I shouldn't be posting this, but this is just not what I see, but many of the guys I hunt with and many that have been frequenting this site for years have been bothered by the direction lately. Something to think about folks. I am not trying to slam anyone, or single anyone out....just calling a spade a spade. Maybe we should all take a minute to look in the mirror....me included!
Do we really want to rely more on our equipment than ourselves? Do we really want some other gadget to dull our woodsman ship? Do we really want to argue over a broadhead to the point that we don't work on our shooting skills?
Trad Gang started with a vision and it grew and grew and grew....and that vision is not going to fade or morph into something that wasn't intended. Not on my watch.
What say ye?
I don't repond anymore to the threads that are asking "whats the BEST broadhead", or "whats the BEST bow". I'm glad that that you brought it up. Thank You for keeping Tradgang on the track that we have ALL grown to love! :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: yononindo on February 14, 2010, 07:10:00 AM
Post by: yononindo on February 14, 2010, 07:10:00 AM
QuoteOriginally posted by Terry Green::thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Nothing is going to get you closer to an animal but YOU. Nothing is going help you draw the bow at the perfect time but YOU. Nothing is going to make that arrow go into the vitals but YOU.
Greetings from Europe.
Daniel
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Terry Green on February 14, 2010, 08:35:00 AM
Post by: Terry Green on February 14, 2010, 08:35:00 AM
QuoteOriginally posted by ishoot4thrills:Seems you've forgotten your handle. ;)
#2 of the three goals of TradGang.com, "2. To create a friendly atmosphere to all. Dedicated to the discussion of all topics that relate to traditional bowhunting."
So I guess what has to be defined is exactly what does "all topics that relate to traditional bowhunting" mean? Are we saying all topics except those related to technology? Technology has a broad definition. A B50 Dacron bow string is a technological advancement over say, a string made of hemp or sinew. A bow with glass lamination is a tech advancement over a solid hickory bow, not to say it's better, but it's more tech advanced. A high FOC weighted arrow is a technological discovery and most would agree through experimentation that it works. We discover and learn through technology. There's no way to avoid it. So if we're going to have discussions about traditional archery, then there has to be some discussion that includes technology.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Scott S. on February 14, 2010, 08:38:00 AM
Post by: Scott S. on February 14, 2010, 08:38:00 AM
This reminds me of a recent sermon at church regarding different religions and demoninations. There are brick walls and then there are picket fences and then there are dinner table discussions in decreasing order of acceptance.
I'm personally not into the "high tech trad" thing, but I can tolerate those of a different mind who feel it is important to want to try to squeeze a couple of extra fps out of their chosen hunting equipment. These would be the guys on the other side of the picket fence from me. The compound shooters might be on the other side of the brick wall a far as this site is concerned.
I've never been able to draw a hard line on what is universally traditional to everyone. To me, there is a continuum ranging from primitive, then the longbows and recurves, then recurves with sights and stabilizers. Most would agree that the compound guy who shoot fingers has crossed the line, but maybe there is somebody out there who would not. What is traditional to me might not be what is traditional to the next person.
I enjoy this site and I probably spend more time on Tradgang than any other site on the net. The moderators efforts are appreciated. I am okay with the moderators taking this whatever direction they deem appropriate.
I just skip those threads that don't interest me. As previously suggested, perhaps a separate forum for the tech issues would help.
I'm personally not into the "high tech trad" thing, but I can tolerate those of a different mind who feel it is important to want to try to squeeze a couple of extra fps out of their chosen hunting equipment. These would be the guys on the other side of the picket fence from me. The compound shooters might be on the other side of the brick wall a far as this site is concerned.
I've never been able to draw a hard line on what is universally traditional to everyone. To me, there is a continuum ranging from primitive, then the longbows and recurves, then recurves with sights and stabilizers. Most would agree that the compound guy who shoot fingers has crossed the line, but maybe there is somebody out there who would not. What is traditional to me might not be what is traditional to the next person.
I enjoy this site and I probably spend more time on Tradgang than any other site on the net. The moderators efforts are appreciated. I am okay with the moderators taking this whatever direction they deem appropriate.
I just skip those threads that don't interest me. As previously suggested, perhaps a separate forum for the tech issues would help.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Terry Green on February 14, 2010, 08:39:00 AM
Post by: Terry Green on February 14, 2010, 08:39:00 AM
Some have again missed my point ....and I'm pretty sure some have on purpose. They have chosen to from the start.
No rules are CHANGING.....Trad Gang will stay the original course, Trad Bowhunting and NOTbe taken over by 'tech threads' or a 'tech mentality'.
I am not ' Doing Anything' to Trad Gang....
I'm simply ' Putting her BACK' on her original course.
No rules are CHANGING.....Trad Gang will stay the original course, Trad Bowhunting and NOTbe taken over by 'tech threads' or a 'tech mentality'.
I am not ' Doing Anything' to Trad Gang....
I'm simply ' Putting her BACK' on her original course.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: NightHawk on February 14, 2010, 08:51:00 AM
Post by: NightHawk on February 14, 2010, 08:51:00 AM
Terry,
One of the things that I have noticed and think has contributed to the tech threads is the commercialism that seems to have taken over Trad Gang. I can't remember in the past when there were so many ads, everyone touting the latest and greatest in archery equipment from bows to clothes.To a company dedicated to telling you what bow and arrows to buy??? What the heck???
Perhaps all the ads are sending mixed messages?? Just a thought to ponder
One of the things that I have noticed and think has contributed to the tech threads is the commercialism that seems to have taken over Trad Gang. I can't remember in the past when there were so many ads, everyone touting the latest and greatest in archery equipment from bows to clothes.To a company dedicated to telling you what bow and arrows to buy??? What the heck???
Perhaps all the ads are sending mixed messages?? Just a thought to ponder
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: katman on February 14, 2010, 08:55:00 AM
Post by: katman on February 14, 2010, 08:55:00 AM
Terry, I understand what you are saying, and since it is your site you make the rules and I respect that. Thank you for all you do and allowing me to be a part of it.
I enjoy reading posts about the tech side but that is me. When it degrades into a shouting match then that is over the top and I try to ignore the thread. While it does not make me a better 'hunter' learning about how my equipment works/performs is fun and informative, especially in the off seasons. My guess is the first archer who fletched an arrow was very excited and shared it with his tribe.
I would also like to see a section for the tech discussions if that is possible so PowWow can remain as you intended. If a separate section is not possible then where do you draw the line?
Yes it is important we do not loose site of what it takes to shoot a bow well and promote good woodsmanship.
I enjoy reading posts about the tech side but that is me. When it degrades into a shouting match then that is over the top and I try to ignore the thread. While it does not make me a better 'hunter' learning about how my equipment works/performs is fun and informative, especially in the off seasons. My guess is the first archer who fletched an arrow was very excited and shared it with his tribe.
I would also like to see a section for the tech discussions if that is possible so PowWow can remain as you intended. If a separate section is not possible then where do you draw the line?
Yes it is important we do not loose site of what it takes to shoot a bow well and promote good woodsmanship.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Terry Green on February 14, 2010, 09:01:00 AM
Post by: Terry Green on February 14, 2010, 09:01:00 AM
No Joe....that's not the problem we are facing or talking about. Not at all. We know the problem, and will be fixing it. It more complicated than you know.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: ishoot4thrills on February 14, 2010, 09:02:00 AM
Post by: ishoot4thrills on February 14, 2010, 09:02:00 AM
QuoteOriginally posted by Terry Green::campfire:
QuoteOriginally posted by ishoot4thrills:Seems you've forgotten your handle. ;) [/b]
#2 of the three goals of TradGang.com, "2. To create a friendly atmosphere to all. Dedicated to the discussion of all topics that relate to traditional bowhunting."
So I guess what has to be defined is exactly what does "all topics that relate to traditional bowhunting" mean? Are we saying all topics except those related to technology? Technology has a broad definition. A B50 Dacron bow string is a technological advancement over say, a string made of hemp or sinew. A bow with glass lamination is a tech advancement over a solid hickory bow, not to say it's better, but it's more tech advanced. A high FOC weighted arrow is a technological discovery and most would agree through experimentation that it works. We discover and learn through technology. There's no way to avoid it. So if we're going to have discussions about traditional archery, then there has to be some discussion that includes technology.
I appreciate you, Terry. Thanks for your time and the effort you put into the TradGang. It's a great place to be for ALL types of trad archers/hunters. I've learned more here in just over a year than I would've learned in ten years without ever have been here. Just before I joined TradGang, I couldn't have imagined shooting carbon arrows with trad equipment. Now I don't want to shoot anything but them. Thanks to you, and others, I have opened my mind to be willing to try things I once considered "untrad", for lack of a better word. And thanks to the kind people here, I have learned how to properly tune my bow/arrow combination to where I can shoot pretty decent with it and understand why.
Keep up the good work!
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: jcar315 on February 14, 2010, 09:02:00 AM
Post by: jcar315 on February 14, 2010, 09:02:00 AM
Terry, Thanks first and foremost for an awesome site. I came to TG and felt at home immediately.
I will say that like others I only read the threads that hold an interest for me. The "technical" side of things really don't interest me so I guess I have missed alot of this "stuff." I have noticed an increase in the "my view is the only" view sort of mentaility with no room for other view points. I got drawn into one thread like that and have avoided posting on others that had that "vibe" since then. Live and learn.
If a "re-adjustment" in course is needed than by all means full speed ahead Captain.
I just don't know if it is a "compond bow" thing or just society in general. Cell phone companies don't get rich by people keeping the same phones for years on end. On average most people upgrade every year.
There is a segment of any population that is attracted to the "latest and greatest" and are "tech" people....for me that holds not interest.
Thanks again for a great site and I support you 100% Terry.
I will say that like others I only read the threads that hold an interest for me. The "technical" side of things really don't interest me so I guess I have missed alot of this "stuff." I have noticed an increase in the "my view is the only" view sort of mentaility with no room for other view points. I got drawn into one thread like that and have avoided posting on others that had that "vibe" since then. Live and learn.
If a "re-adjustment" in course is needed than by all means full speed ahead Captain.
I just don't know if it is a "compond bow" thing or just society in general. Cell phone companies don't get rich by people keeping the same phones for years on end. On average most people upgrade every year.
There is a segment of any population that is attracted to the "latest and greatest" and are "tech" people....for me that holds not interest.
Thanks again for a great site and I support you 100% Terry.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: John Nail on February 14, 2010, 09:14:00 AM
Post by: John Nail on February 14, 2010, 09:14:00 AM
With some folks, technology has become a religion. It has become an end-all, do-all. Those of us who grew up without what is considered "Modern" have a different view of life and endeavor. Too many magazine articles, DVDs,TVshows, et al are dedicated to the latest and greatest gadget.
I view bowhunting as the last pure thing. It's all about the skill to get close and the nerve to shoot straight. I don't care a fig for "scores" or competition of any kind. Just me, I suppose. If you have an opposing view, please don't think I'm putting you down.
But believe me, there is no such thing as an "Instant Bowhunter"
Dues must be paid.
I view bowhunting as the last pure thing. It's all about the skill to get close and the nerve to shoot straight. I don't care a fig for "scores" or competition of any kind. Just me, I suppose. If you have an opposing view, please don't think I'm putting you down.
But believe me, there is no such thing as an "Instant Bowhunter"
Dues must be paid.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: ishoot4thrills on February 14, 2010, 09:15:00 AM
Post by: ishoot4thrills on February 14, 2010, 09:15:00 AM
You know what my first thought back in September, after taking my first deer with trad equipment since the late '90s, was? I couldn't wait to share the pics and story of the hunt with the great people here. I couldn't believe how much I couldn't wait to get home and post all about it on here! I think I even did it late that night when I got home and settled down somewhat. Heck, I was just as excited about posting it here as I was when I found the deer after a short blood trail. I never thought I would be that way. Why, I even posted it on here before I emailed my closest friends and family about it! There's just something great about being able to share things with people that you know can relate to it. You might say that this site has changed my hunting life in a great and "thrilling" way.
I might also add again that while I enjoy tech discussion, I'm not into gadgets nor am I into the "latest and greatest". I just like the science of trad archery in addition to the simple side of it and the challenge of hunting wild game with the least amount of extra baggage to carry along with me while outdoors.
I might also add again that while I enjoy tech discussion, I'm not into gadgets nor am I into the "latest and greatest". I just like the science of trad archery in addition to the simple side of it and the challenge of hunting wild game with the least amount of extra baggage to carry along with me while outdoors.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Rob DiStefano on February 14, 2010, 09:25:00 AM
Post by: Rob DiStefano on February 14, 2010, 09:25:00 AM
there's room enuf for everything. moderation is the key - both self moderation and forum moderation.
too much emphasis on the techie stuff, as evidenced by far too many topics that rehash the same techie stuff over and over and ad nauseam.
ditto's for those 'whats best' and 'this versus that' and 'heres a photo of my underwear' and 'who sleeps nekid when hunting' kinda topics (kudos vance! :D )
the focus here at trad gang is the act of trad archery bowhunting.
sure, the gear is part of it, but the real deal hits the trail when yer out there huntin' and there are no deep thoughts or theories about yer archery tackle. yer huntin'. period.
too much emphasis on the techie stuff, as evidenced by far too many topics that rehash the same techie stuff over and over and ad nauseam.
ditto's for those 'whats best' and 'this versus that' and 'heres a photo of my underwear' and 'who sleeps nekid when hunting' kinda topics (kudos vance! :D )
the focus here at trad gang is the act of trad archery bowhunting.
sure, the gear is part of it, but the real deal hits the trail when yer out there huntin' and there are no deep thoughts or theories about yer archery tackle. yer huntin'. period.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Shakes.602 on February 14, 2010, 09:27:00 AM
Post by: Shakes.602 on February 14, 2010, 09:27:00 AM
I am coming in Late to this Party, as usual, but Terry I Agree with You 100%!! I guess I am not as "HardCore" a Hunter as some, but I TRY.
Yes, I came from Compounds, BUT My Very First Experiences were with a Recurve, and I have NEVER Lost that Love of that Arrow going where I wanted it to go!! I admit, as a BowHunter, My "Tally" of Killed Critters is ZIP, but that doesnt mean I am going to Give Up!!
This WebSite has been a God-Send to Me!! I have Learned a GREAT Many Things that I wouldnt have otherwise. From ALL of the Friendly Folks that are More than Willing to Share their Knowledge, well, I couldnt have Asked for Better!!
I Feel that TradGang is a FAMILY, and I Always Have!! People of LikeMind Helping OTHER People to Enjoy this Sport/Lifestyle/Passion, label it however you Please. It All Amounts to the same thing!!
Terry, You and the Mods have your Plates full just trying to get some of Us to Play Nice, or to Gently Direct Us to the Correct "Topic" for our Questions!! You ALL do a Fine Job, and I am Proud to be a TradGanger!!
Just My Opinion of Course, but You ALL are Doing a Great Job, and Sometimes WE need a Kick in the arse to Remind Us WHY We Love TradGang the way We Do!! Thank YOU for CARING!!
Yes, I came from Compounds, BUT My Very First Experiences were with a Recurve, and I have NEVER Lost that Love of that Arrow going where I wanted it to go!! I admit, as a BowHunter, My "Tally" of Killed Critters is ZIP, but that doesnt mean I am going to Give Up!!
This WebSite has been a God-Send to Me!! I have Learned a GREAT Many Things that I wouldnt have otherwise. From ALL of the Friendly Folks that are More than Willing to Share their Knowledge, well, I couldnt have Asked for Better!!
I Feel that TradGang is a FAMILY, and I Always Have!! People of LikeMind Helping OTHER People to Enjoy this Sport/Lifestyle/Passion, label it however you Please. It All Amounts to the same thing!!
Terry, You and the Mods have your Plates full just trying to get some of Us to Play Nice, or to Gently Direct Us to the Correct "Topic" for our Questions!! You ALL do a Fine Job, and I am Proud to be a TradGanger!!
Just My Opinion of Course, but You ALL are Doing a Great Job, and Sometimes WE need a Kick in the arse to Remind Us WHY We Love TradGang the way We Do!! Thank YOU for CARING!!
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Builder on February 14, 2010, 09:29:00 AM
Post by: Builder on February 14, 2010, 09:29:00 AM
Thanks Terry, I always get irritated when everyone is talking speed, chrono etc.
At least I know I'm not the lone ranger on these issues.
At least I know I'm not the lone ranger on these issues.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: michaelschwister on February 14, 2010, 09:30:00 AM
Post by: michaelschwister on February 14, 2010, 09:30:00 AM
Getting out the xcountry skis and going scouting, then some shooting on the short range. Gday!
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: KSdan on February 14, 2010, 09:50:00 AM
Post by: KSdan on February 14, 2010, 09:50:00 AM
I have not seen the problem I guess. Pick and choose. . . some love the details of "form", some "equip" some the "style" of hunting. I am not sure where you will be able to draw the line. Seems to me that trad hunting draws a certain type of person that will always inform the posts in a certain direction.
Frankly, if we really want to push this envelope, there are many posts that could be questioned as having little to do with actual Trad archery. I am NOT COMPLAINING. But I do notice raising money for certain organizations, certain threads that seem to highlight certain hunting gear and equipment, . . . . etc. I am not sure you will ever be able to draw perfect lines, as all of us have our bias.
This has been the BEST site I know. You guys set the rules. . . I will play accordingly.
Frankly, if we really want to push this envelope, there are many posts that could be questioned as having little to do with actual Trad archery. I am NOT COMPLAINING. But I do notice raising money for certain organizations, certain threads that seem to highlight certain hunting gear and equipment, . . . . etc. I am not sure you will ever be able to draw perfect lines, as all of us have our bias.
This has been the BEST site I know. You guys set the rules. . . I will play accordingly.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Butch Speer on February 14, 2010, 10:02:00 AM
Post by: Butch Speer on February 14, 2010, 10:02:00 AM
I'm definitely not against tech talk, don't see where Terry ever said he was either.
QuoteOriginally posted by Terry Green:How else would people learn about carbon arrows, new string material or the like. But, to me this is first & foremost a hunting site. Was in the beginning & I'd like to see it remain that way.
Not to say there there shouldn't or wont be equipment discussions....but they have been running amok lately, and we are going to do something about it since its seems to be causing too much divisiveness.
[/QB]
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: LimbLover on February 14, 2010, 10:05:00 AM
Post by: LimbLover on February 14, 2010, 10:05:00 AM
I trust you Terry. I've been on a lot of forums for a lot of different things and this one is really clean.
However, there are only so many things to talk about in traditional archery. Everything has been discussed at one point or the other. If you lock it down tighter and tighter - there won't be anything new to discuss.
My experience with dying boards is that the mods try to crack down on things and set rules to the point where you get flaming regarding "use the search function!", "read the sticky". Then when you do people complain about you bringing up old threads! Its a no win and the board fails.
PLEASE...keep this in mind with whatever you are doing. If you have more stickies than threads on the first page - you are in trouble!
However, there are only so many things to talk about in traditional archery. Everything has been discussed at one point or the other. If you lock it down tighter and tighter - there won't be anything new to discuss.
My experience with dying boards is that the mods try to crack down on things and set rules to the point where you get flaming regarding "use the search function!", "read the sticky". Then when you do people complain about you bringing up old threads! Its a no win and the board fails.
PLEASE...keep this in mind with whatever you are doing. If you have more stickies than threads on the first page - you are in trouble!
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Autumnarcher on February 14, 2010, 10:41:00 AM
Post by: Autumnarcher on February 14, 2010, 10:41:00 AM
Great discussion,thanks for bringing the topic up Terry. Trad archery is no different than many other pasttimes, in that I think it is natural for some to try to glean as much knowlege or information they can to help them become proficient. At times, yes, it gets ridiculous.
Take for example-fishing. Give a kid a cane pole, a hook, worm and bobber, and he'll figur out how to catch fish. Simple and to the point. But ya gotta get the worm wet.
Then he gets older, and starts to tinkering too much with high tech carbon rods, electronic lures, lures that smell funny, digital reels, and soon enough, he has a ton of technical knowhow, and surprisingly, isnt catchin as many fish. We can do the same thing to ourselves if we let it happen.
This site was a huge help when I took up trad archery several years ago, and I can say with certainty that it helped me get on target. But it all boiled down to, in the end, taking that information, and using it to punch a lot of holes in my bag target.
I see threads that get more technical than I care to bother with. Nothing says we have to read every single thread on every single topic. I skip over those if I choose, and read the ones about hunts, the spirit of the chase, threads with pics of bows and game, of deer camps, or a winter hike with bow in hand shooting stumps or squirrels.
Sure, sometimes a tech issue pops up, and I dig around to see if I can find the answer I'm lookin for,if not, I'll ask for a little input and move on.
Trying to pinpoint what is and what is not "too technical" can be likened to trying to nail jello to a pine board.
One thread recently really got my goat was folks being called a hypocrite if they shoot a R/D bow, or an arrow with steel points etc. That proverbial "what is traditional" kind of talk that pits one against the other.
Lots of ways to skin a cat, doesnt really matter how it gets skinned, so long as in the end, you have a skin.
Thanks for a great site Terry.
Take for example-fishing. Give a kid a cane pole, a hook, worm and bobber, and he'll figur out how to catch fish. Simple and to the point. But ya gotta get the worm wet.
Then he gets older, and starts to tinkering too much with high tech carbon rods, electronic lures, lures that smell funny, digital reels, and soon enough, he has a ton of technical knowhow, and surprisingly, isnt catchin as many fish. We can do the same thing to ourselves if we let it happen.
This site was a huge help when I took up trad archery several years ago, and I can say with certainty that it helped me get on target. But it all boiled down to, in the end, taking that information, and using it to punch a lot of holes in my bag target.
I see threads that get more technical than I care to bother with. Nothing says we have to read every single thread on every single topic. I skip over those if I choose, and read the ones about hunts, the spirit of the chase, threads with pics of bows and game, of deer camps, or a winter hike with bow in hand shooting stumps or squirrels.
Sure, sometimes a tech issue pops up, and I dig around to see if I can find the answer I'm lookin for,if not, I'll ask for a little input and move on.
Trying to pinpoint what is and what is not "too technical" can be likened to trying to nail jello to a pine board.
One thread recently really got my goat was folks being called a hypocrite if they shoot a R/D bow, or an arrow with steel points etc. That proverbial "what is traditional" kind of talk that pits one against the other.
Lots of ways to skin a cat, doesnt really matter how it gets skinned, so long as in the end, you have a skin.
Thanks for a great site Terry.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: hayslope on February 14, 2010, 10:53:00 AM
Post by: hayslope on February 14, 2010, 10:53:00 AM
Terry,
It is amazing what some folks "see" on here, then again, what many folks don't see because they think it's normal.
I know I'm showing my age here......
I have to believe that the "tech mentality" or whatever we want to call it, emanates from that general period of time when the hunting (and to a slightly lesser degree - archery) industry realized that there was an ENORMOUS amount of money to be made. With that realization, companies hired better business school grads who chipped away at the original business plans. Outcome - bring new (slightly better) products to the market EVERY (or every other) year. People will always flock to the "latest and greatest". This mentality was first embraced (with wide open arms I might add) by the general hunting magazine industry. Advertising does sell magazines and tech articles (especially comparison articles) will sell magazines off of news racks. God help us now that HuntingTV and its "horn porn" have arrived.....show me any other industry where someone can take an airline attendant with zero experience and make her an industry expert and icon in less that a year......marketing genius at its finest!
Anyone ever actually time the actual "show" in comparison to the "commercials".
I see a somewhat recurring theme.......technology in this industry will make you better! If you haven't noticed....there are broadheads out there that will actually kill, gut and skin your deer! There are bows that are so quiet and fast, the deer is dead before the sonic boom is heard!
All sound too familiar? Yep....pretty much been going on for a long time in every industry.
I can be thankful that I grew up when bowhunting was obviously not a "big bucks industry" (no pun intended) and when ALL the equipment is what we now call "traditional".
"Embracing Technology"........oh yea......that's what we did in the early days when we switched from a longbow to a recurve!
You moderators will have your hands full.....I don't envy you one bit. It won't go away (unless you delete them!)
While I will do as someone else said....self police.....I will occasionally click on one of those threads....mainly to see if George piped in with his usual wit (which will..on occasion...make me spit coffee on my laptop or blow snot bubbles out my nose!)
Hey...if nothing else.....thanks for noticing things that drive some of us crazy!
Any way you look at it......this is still a pretty great group of folks. There are enough folks on here to keep the techies grounded!
It is amazing what some folks "see" on here, then again, what many folks don't see because they think it's normal.
I know I'm showing my age here......
I have to believe that the "tech mentality" or whatever we want to call it, emanates from that general period of time when the hunting (and to a slightly lesser degree - archery) industry realized that there was an ENORMOUS amount of money to be made. With that realization, companies hired better business school grads who chipped away at the original business plans. Outcome - bring new (slightly better) products to the market EVERY (or every other) year. People will always flock to the "latest and greatest". This mentality was first embraced (with wide open arms I might add) by the general hunting magazine industry. Advertising does sell magazines and tech articles (especially comparison articles) will sell magazines off of news racks. God help us now that HuntingTV and its "horn porn" have arrived.....show me any other industry where someone can take an airline attendant with zero experience and make her an industry expert and icon in less that a year......marketing genius at its finest!
Anyone ever actually time the actual "show" in comparison to the "commercials".
I see a somewhat recurring theme.......technology in this industry will make you better! If you haven't noticed....there are broadheads out there that will actually kill, gut and skin your deer! There are bows that are so quiet and fast, the deer is dead before the sonic boom is heard!
All sound too familiar? Yep....pretty much been going on for a long time in every industry.
I can be thankful that I grew up when bowhunting was obviously not a "big bucks industry" (no pun intended) and when ALL the equipment is what we now call "traditional".
"Embracing Technology"........oh yea......that's what we did in the early days when we switched from a longbow to a recurve!
You moderators will have your hands full.....I don't envy you one bit. It won't go away (unless you delete them!)
While I will do as someone else said....self police.....I will occasionally click on one of those threads....mainly to see if George piped in with his usual wit (which will..on occasion...make me spit coffee on my laptop or blow snot bubbles out my nose!)
Hey...if nothing else.....thanks for noticing things that drive some of us crazy!
Any way you look at it......this is still a pretty great group of folks. There are enough folks on here to keep the techies grounded!
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: 30coupe on February 14, 2010, 11:09:00 AM
Post by: 30coupe on February 14, 2010, 11:09:00 AM
Great post, Terry! You are right, as usual. I think what you are seeing here is very similar to what I see in the classroom. People want to find a quick, easy solution instead of working for it.
The tendency is to look at the equipment as both the problem and the solution when the real issue is form and lack of proper practice.
The same is true for woodsmanship. There is nothing one can carry, wear or spray on that will take the place of getting close, playing the wind, and knowing your equipment (no matter what it is) well enough to place the arrow where it needs to be.
Thanks for the reminder, Terry!
The tendency is to look at the equipment as both the problem and the solution when the real issue is form and lack of proper practice.
The same is true for woodsmanship. There is nothing one can carry, wear or spray on that will take the place of getting close, playing the wind, and knowing your equipment (no matter what it is) well enough to place the arrow where it needs to be.
Thanks for the reminder, Terry!
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: SMA on February 14, 2010, 11:33:00 AM
Post by: SMA on February 14, 2010, 11:33:00 AM
I'm with ya!
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: el_kirk on February 14, 2010, 11:41:00 AM
Post by: el_kirk on February 14, 2010, 11:41:00 AM
I first joined Tradgang in late 2008, when I decided that I wanted to get a traditional bow and start hunting with it (instead of the rifle or compound I've always used). Even though I had three great mentors here in Lander, Wyoming I scoured the site for information whenever I could. I made a few friends, bought a longbow and LEARNED.
I hunt elk, and learned about how other guys in other parts of the world hunt elk.
I hunt grouse, including sage grouse, and have had a blast doing so (and eating them).
After watching folks and their antelope hunting posts, I think I've decided to try it myself next fall.
I've always shot woodies out of my longbow, but decided to take the plunge and try carbons because of what I learned on Tradgang. (That, and I break woodies like they're toothpicks!) Nobody I know shoots carbons and without the information on this site I wouldn't have known where to begin.
And as useful as the info was, I get very bored with repetitive tech talk.
So thanks moderators, for filtering out another rehash of "what's the best pointy thing to go on the end of a stick", "can I get another 0.25fps from my bow if I lurch forward when I release" and of course 'who sleeps nekid when hunting'! :) And thanks for the good stuff!
Kirk
ps - I'm working on a short post from my sage grouse hunts this fall.
I hunt elk, and learned about how other guys in other parts of the world hunt elk.
I hunt grouse, including sage grouse, and have had a blast doing so (and eating them).
After watching folks and their antelope hunting posts, I think I've decided to try it myself next fall.
I've always shot woodies out of my longbow, but decided to take the plunge and try carbons because of what I learned on Tradgang. (That, and I break woodies like they're toothpicks!) Nobody I know shoots carbons and without the information on this site I wouldn't have known where to begin.
And as useful as the info was, I get very bored with repetitive tech talk.
So thanks moderators, for filtering out another rehash of "what's the best pointy thing to go on the end of a stick", "can I get another 0.25fps from my bow if I lurch forward when I release" and of course 'who sleeps nekid when hunting'! :) And thanks for the good stuff!
Kirk
ps - I'm working on a short post from my sage grouse hunts this fall.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: AdamH on February 14, 2010, 11:47:00 AM
Post by: AdamH on February 14, 2010, 11:47:00 AM
Guess Im showin my age also as I don't like to admit it, but for 22 years with a stick my out come has been the same, a "Sharp" broadhead behind the front leg with a relatively heavy arrow and within a hundred yards the animal is down {100 yards being far} ... That being said, when everything "doesn't" go right, I know it's me, All this "Tech Talk"'s not why I do this ... Good Luck All ... Keep It Simple ....
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Mojostick on February 14, 2010, 11:51:00 AM
Post by: Mojostick on February 14, 2010, 11:51:00 AM
I think I have a devils advocate explaination for some of what you might be seeing here.
Please don't get upset wih me, because my goal is to attempt to shed some light on Terry's first post, by explaining my own experience into trad gear.
I owned a sporting goods store in Michigan for nearly 15 years. What I have seen is that todays deer hunter, and likely any big game hunter, knows far more about the species he hunts than at any time, including native peoples.
I noticed the same with flyfishermen. Todays fly fishermen is armed with information flyfishermen 30 years ago wouldn't believe.
Between all the internet forums, magazines, DVD'd, TV shows, etc, hunters are overwhelmed with "how to, where to" info.
Adding the reams biological research available, typical hunters now know far more about what deer eat when, when they want carbs, protein, how many hours they must digest and chew cud, when the estrus cycle starts, peaks and ends, how long the cycle lasts, which vocalizations doe's in estrus use, when fawns are supposed to drop, when the fawns leave the doe, buck dispersal, deer home range, what colors deer see, identifying a 3 year old buck from a 4 year old buck by photo, antler growth in relation to deer population and on and on and on.
Compared to say 1970, typical deer hunters today know far more about, thermals, winds, scent control, deer vocalizations, not letting deer know you're there on entry and exit of stand, proper treestand setup in relation to sun, shadows, background cover, where to set up, when to set up, when to hunt what food source, which plaid or camo is open pattern instead of blobs, how to improve one's land for cover and food, and on and on and on.
When I talk to younger 20 something deer hunters, I'm stunned about how knowledgeable they are on some really fine points of all things deer hunting, compared to the guy who'd stumble around, find a stump to sit and light a cigar, 40 years ago.
Add that hunter demographics are aging, in Michigan the average hunter age is 42, and we're ending up with a larger pool of experienced hunters with many years under their belts with lots of hunting knowledge. And that's happening in every state, we getting older as a group. Hunting experience goes hand in hand with getting older.
The result is, more and more of us don't really have a whole lot of "how to hunt" questions left to ask. At least in our prefered common species we hunt.
I've been bowhunting for 31 years and never went a bow season without killing at least one deer. Some years, filling crop permits due to our extreme deer population back then, I killed fairly large multiples of deer. In the late 1980's I killed 18 deer in back to back years with a bow. 9 each year.
Even this year, I killed a buck and a doe while just hunting natural on the ground with a longbow.
The result is, I don't really have many deer "hunting" questions. I feel I could maybe write a book or give tutorials on whitetail deer hunting, but I really don't have any midwest deer "hunting" questions left.
My guess is, there's lots of guys in my same boat, in varied degree's. They know enough to where a "where to set up" question seems almost silly to ask. I think there's lots of guys who can give a good answer, but less and less who actually need to ask those questions.
Now, if I was going out west for elk, I'd have tons of questions because I'm green in that aspect.
But whitetails are still America's #1 big game animal. And more and more, the older and more experienced whitetail hunters don't have much to ask. Answer questions yes, ask questions no.
Now, compare that to tech questions about brace, limb woods, string materials, arrow spine, etc. There is no overwhelming supply of that info. There's tradgang, stickbow and TB magazine and a few other outlets.
Finally, as a former compound shooter, I think I can explain another aspect that I've yet seen mentioned anywhere.
To me, there seems to be 2 main schools of thought on trad gear.
You have the more "old school" type that have always used trad gear or have for at least 20 plus years, and they often consider themselves trad archers who bowhunt. Trad archers first.
Then you have those who've switched from compounds to trad gear over the last 10 years and they often consider themselves bowhunters who've chosen trad gear for the challenge. Bowhunters first.
See the difference? One group considers themselves trad archers first and another considers themselves bowhunters who use trad gear first.
I think I'm in the minority because I fall into the second catagory. I shot compounds for years and I'm a bowhunter who uses trad gear. I didn't make the switch for any cultural reasons, I did so because I grew bored with the ease of killing deer with a compound and that compound hunting was more machine than man. I wanted to bring some of the challenge back and went to stick and string.
So in a sense, me getting into trad archery was totally gear related. I got into it for the gear.
For me personally, deer hunting is an individual sport, even if there's friends at deer camp with me. It's me against the deer. Like how golf is you against the course. If you're playing against other people, you've missed the challenge.
For this reason, I have little interest in the social gatherings aspect of traditional archery. I have little interest in pitching a tent for a weekend of stump shooting at a rendezvous somewhere.
I do go to the K-Zoo and Compton's, but to be honest, I'm there only to shop. Again, I'm just being honest in an attempt to shed light, so don't get upset.
I go to test bows, look for cool one of a kind stuff, etc.
As this site gets bigger and bigger, I suspect the smaller group of original gung ho trad lifestyle types from when this site started are getting a little drowned out by the ever growing numbers of deer hunters who have or are just switching to trad gear coupled with the age of the internet forum.
My guess is, the majority of them have done so for reasons similar to me. Killing deer with a compound offered little challenge anymore.
So if there's questions to be asked, they will be inquiring into "how the trad bow works", what are R/D limbs, what string is quiet, can I use a 3 blade head with a 45lb bow, is a 450gr arrow too light? And on and on.
Not so much because they simply want to replace the compound with a stickbow. No, it's because they have little knowledge on the matter and are excited about a new found love of the sport and are excited about the challenge of shooting a trad bow well.
Those of you shooting trad gear for 30 years may think a question about if brace height effects spine or is there diminishing returns of a heavy slow arrow vs a lighter faster arrow may be getting too techy.
I'd maintain many guys are asking simple questions that you have known the answer to for years but they are simply just learning.
One mans "too popular mechanics" question is anothers "what am I doing wrong" question.
They already know enough "hunting" that they don't have to ask hunting questions. But trying to figure out proper brace ht, proper arrow flight, proper spine, what is tiller, why a Hill bow, which broadhead, etc, is what has them confused with their new sport and they are simply trying to get their head around what makes a trad bow work at it's peak performance.
I'm sure nobody would advocate a hunter going out with a terrible brace ht for that bow, with fishtailing arrows, dull head 3 blade heads out of a 40lb bow.
Anyway, as unpopular as this post may be, I feel it's worth posting my opinion for all to chew their cud on. Pun intended. LOL
Please don't get upset wih me, because my goal is to attempt to shed some light on Terry's first post, by explaining my own experience into trad gear.
I owned a sporting goods store in Michigan for nearly 15 years. What I have seen is that todays deer hunter, and likely any big game hunter, knows far more about the species he hunts than at any time, including native peoples.
I noticed the same with flyfishermen. Todays fly fishermen is armed with information flyfishermen 30 years ago wouldn't believe.
Between all the internet forums, magazines, DVD'd, TV shows, etc, hunters are overwhelmed with "how to, where to" info.
Adding the reams biological research available, typical hunters now know far more about what deer eat when, when they want carbs, protein, how many hours they must digest and chew cud, when the estrus cycle starts, peaks and ends, how long the cycle lasts, which vocalizations doe's in estrus use, when fawns are supposed to drop, when the fawns leave the doe, buck dispersal, deer home range, what colors deer see, identifying a 3 year old buck from a 4 year old buck by photo, antler growth in relation to deer population and on and on and on.
Compared to say 1970, typical deer hunters today know far more about, thermals, winds, scent control, deer vocalizations, not letting deer know you're there on entry and exit of stand, proper treestand setup in relation to sun, shadows, background cover, where to set up, when to set up, when to hunt what food source, which plaid or camo is open pattern instead of blobs, how to improve one's land for cover and food, and on and on and on.
When I talk to younger 20 something deer hunters, I'm stunned about how knowledgeable they are on some really fine points of all things deer hunting, compared to the guy who'd stumble around, find a stump to sit and light a cigar, 40 years ago.
Add that hunter demographics are aging, in Michigan the average hunter age is 42, and we're ending up with a larger pool of experienced hunters with many years under their belts with lots of hunting knowledge. And that's happening in every state, we getting older as a group. Hunting experience goes hand in hand with getting older.
The result is, more and more of us don't really have a whole lot of "how to hunt" questions left to ask. At least in our prefered common species we hunt.
I've been bowhunting for 31 years and never went a bow season without killing at least one deer. Some years, filling crop permits due to our extreme deer population back then, I killed fairly large multiples of deer. In the late 1980's I killed 18 deer in back to back years with a bow. 9 each year.
Even this year, I killed a buck and a doe while just hunting natural on the ground with a longbow.
The result is, I don't really have many deer "hunting" questions. I feel I could maybe write a book or give tutorials on whitetail deer hunting, but I really don't have any midwest deer "hunting" questions left.
My guess is, there's lots of guys in my same boat, in varied degree's. They know enough to where a "where to set up" question seems almost silly to ask. I think there's lots of guys who can give a good answer, but less and less who actually need to ask those questions.
Now, if I was going out west for elk, I'd have tons of questions because I'm green in that aspect.
But whitetails are still America's #1 big game animal. And more and more, the older and more experienced whitetail hunters don't have much to ask. Answer questions yes, ask questions no.
Now, compare that to tech questions about brace, limb woods, string materials, arrow spine, etc. There is no overwhelming supply of that info. There's tradgang, stickbow and TB magazine and a few other outlets.
Finally, as a former compound shooter, I think I can explain another aspect that I've yet seen mentioned anywhere.
To me, there seems to be 2 main schools of thought on trad gear.
You have the more "old school" type that have always used trad gear or have for at least 20 plus years, and they often consider themselves trad archers who bowhunt. Trad archers first.
Then you have those who've switched from compounds to trad gear over the last 10 years and they often consider themselves bowhunters who've chosen trad gear for the challenge. Bowhunters first.
See the difference? One group considers themselves trad archers first and another considers themselves bowhunters who use trad gear first.
I think I'm in the minority because I fall into the second catagory. I shot compounds for years and I'm a bowhunter who uses trad gear. I didn't make the switch for any cultural reasons, I did so because I grew bored with the ease of killing deer with a compound and that compound hunting was more machine than man. I wanted to bring some of the challenge back and went to stick and string.
So in a sense, me getting into trad archery was totally gear related. I got into it for the gear.
For me personally, deer hunting is an individual sport, even if there's friends at deer camp with me. It's me against the deer. Like how golf is you against the course. If you're playing against other people, you've missed the challenge.
For this reason, I have little interest in the social gatherings aspect of traditional archery. I have little interest in pitching a tent for a weekend of stump shooting at a rendezvous somewhere.
I do go to the K-Zoo and Compton's, but to be honest, I'm there only to shop. Again, I'm just being honest in an attempt to shed light, so don't get upset.
I go to test bows, look for cool one of a kind stuff, etc.
As this site gets bigger and bigger, I suspect the smaller group of original gung ho trad lifestyle types from when this site started are getting a little drowned out by the ever growing numbers of deer hunters who have or are just switching to trad gear coupled with the age of the internet forum.
My guess is, the majority of them have done so for reasons similar to me. Killing deer with a compound offered little challenge anymore.
So if there's questions to be asked, they will be inquiring into "how the trad bow works", what are R/D limbs, what string is quiet, can I use a 3 blade head with a 45lb bow, is a 450gr arrow too light? And on and on.
Not so much because they simply want to replace the compound with a stickbow. No, it's because they have little knowledge on the matter and are excited about a new found love of the sport and are excited about the challenge of shooting a trad bow well.
Those of you shooting trad gear for 30 years may think a question about if brace height effects spine or is there diminishing returns of a heavy slow arrow vs a lighter faster arrow may be getting too techy.
I'd maintain many guys are asking simple questions that you have known the answer to for years but they are simply just learning.
One mans "too popular mechanics" question is anothers "what am I doing wrong" question.
They already know enough "hunting" that they don't have to ask hunting questions. But trying to figure out proper brace ht, proper arrow flight, proper spine, what is tiller, why a Hill bow, which broadhead, etc, is what has them confused with their new sport and they are simply trying to get their head around what makes a trad bow work at it's peak performance.
I'm sure nobody would advocate a hunter going out with a terrible brace ht for that bow, with fishtailing arrows, dull head 3 blade heads out of a 40lb bow.
Anyway, as unpopular as this post may be, I feel it's worth posting my opinion for all to chew their cud on. Pun intended. LOL
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: jim ratcliff on February 14, 2010, 11:53:00 AM
Post by: jim ratcliff on February 14, 2010, 11:53:00 AM
AMEN! when i found my little browning nomad stalker from my youth i also found this site,got to wanting a long bow and purchased my omp adriondack hunter deluxe 50lb. @28" and i really like the long bow. When this one makes meat then i will upgrade but i got the feeling my equipment was inferior when people spoke of widows and such.
when i upgrade it will be a lost creek...i like what i see!!! but yeah this is a back to basics site and thats what drew me to it,i want to challenge myself every time i pick my bow up,it may not cost $1,200.00 but it gets the arrow from point a to point b.
THANKS TERRY FOR A GREAT PLACE TO VISIT AND KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK,I VISIT THIS "PLACE" DAILY AND ALWAYS LEARN :archer:
when i upgrade it will be a lost creek...i like what i see!!! but yeah this is a back to basics site and thats what drew me to it,i want to challenge myself every time i pick my bow up,it may not cost $1,200.00 but it gets the arrow from point a to point b.
THANKS TERRY FOR A GREAT PLACE TO VISIT AND KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK,I VISIT THIS "PLACE" DAILY AND ALWAYS LEARN :archer:
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: b.glass on February 14, 2010, 11:54:00 AM
Post by: b.glass on February 14, 2010, 11:54:00 AM
I agree it does get pretty technical around here sometimes.
I started heading that way when I tried carbon arrows for the first time. They weren't even spined properly but my accuracy improved ALOT.
I don't see any harm is posting a new(or new to this time period) idea that improves ones setup. I think Dr. Ashby and others have made good observations and shared them with us. It has been the opposite of what Terry stated, for me, I felt almost ridiculed for wanting to try a certain broadhead that came out about a year or so ago. And that's not right either.
That being said, I often skip over most threads that are obviously technical. Maybe it has gone too far, I just don't read them. I have swung back over to the more simple things but have retained some of the technical information that I have learned.
I got the Tradgang DVD for Christmas and enjoy the shooting tips from Terry and have been practicing those moves. I almost got the chance to try it on a doe the last day of the season!
I respect your opinion Terry. Do what you gotta do.
Bona
I started heading that way when I tried carbon arrows for the first time. They weren't even spined properly but my accuracy improved ALOT.
I don't see any harm is posting a new(or new to this time period) idea that improves ones setup. I think Dr. Ashby and others have made good observations and shared them with us. It has been the opposite of what Terry stated, for me, I felt almost ridiculed for wanting to try a certain broadhead that came out about a year or so ago. And that's not right either.
That being said, I often skip over most threads that are obviously technical. Maybe it has gone too far, I just don't read them. I have swung back over to the more simple things but have retained some of the technical information that I have learned.
I got the Tradgang DVD for Christmas and enjoy the shooting tips from Terry and have been practicing those moves. I almost got the chance to try it on a doe the last day of the season!
I respect your opinion Terry. Do what you gotta do.
Bona
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Chris Shelton on February 14, 2010, 11:59:00 AM
Post by: Chris Shelton on February 14, 2010, 11:59:00 AM
WOW, after skimming all of these I feel like we are in berlin and the wall is up! I have a quote that ALL MUST READ!!!! "A nation devided is easily defeated" Take that in, let it swim within your veins.
There must be a line driven throught the ashes, but where will it be placed is the question? It sounds to me that some of you guys used this website as a crutch to learn the art of Traditional bowhunting? Then how can you guys down "tech" talk when you have learned this craft from technology? Alot of you are not being open minded towards this new technological wave, and you should rethink what you are saying.
My generation is who will carry this mystical art into the future. Unfortunatly alot of my peers are VERY dependend on technology. And if tech talk is cast down into the flames then you may draw the dividing line in a bad place. You may seperate the old from the new, and that is most definatly something I never want to see. I dont want the old ways to die off, and then what will happened to traditional bowhunting, it will be a compound without cams!
Bottom line is that this is Terry's site, his domain name, his home. He can paint it red if he wants or paint it blue, its up to him. All we can do is hold the latter while he leans out and starts sloppin paint. Terry I hardly know ya, but already I trust you. I can see your vision of 20000 people around a campfire shooting crap. And I hope we all will laugh at this little bump in the future . . .
Best of luck
There must be a line driven throught the ashes, but where will it be placed is the question? It sounds to me that some of you guys used this website as a crutch to learn the art of Traditional bowhunting? Then how can you guys down "tech" talk when you have learned this craft from technology? Alot of you are not being open minded towards this new technological wave, and you should rethink what you are saying.
My generation is who will carry this mystical art into the future. Unfortunatly alot of my peers are VERY dependend on technology. And if tech talk is cast down into the flames then you may draw the dividing line in a bad place. You may seperate the old from the new, and that is most definatly something I never want to see. I dont want the old ways to die off, and then what will happened to traditional bowhunting, it will be a compound without cams!
Bottom line is that this is Terry's site, his domain name, his home. He can paint it red if he wants or paint it blue, its up to him. All we can do is hold the latter while he leans out and starts sloppin paint. Terry I hardly know ya, but already I trust you. I can see your vision of 20000 people around a campfire shooting crap. And I hope we all will laugh at this little bump in the future . . .
Best of luck
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: b.glass on February 14, 2010, 12:04:00 PM
Post by: b.glass on February 14, 2010, 12:04:00 PM
Mojostick, when I first saw your post I thought, "O great, a long winded one". But you have some very good thoughts! Thanks!
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Chris Shelton on February 14, 2010, 12:14:00 PM
Post by: Chris Shelton on February 14, 2010, 12:14:00 PM
after reading mojosticks post I have more to add. I was a kid, age 15 that was given a 40# recurve, and used some carbon arrows off the compound that I had used mabye twice. I only hunted with a compound one time and imediately realized it wasnt for me. I forgot my release and didnt like being dependent on it. I practiced with those arrows for 4 months, they were a estimated 250 grains plus the arrow. I got good, was shooting milk jugs in the air. One crisp November morning I got up early with day and headed for the mountains. Specifically hunting squirrels and grouse in the woods. This was my first time ever in the woods as a traditional bowhunter and it felt right. I felt at home. Finally about noon a mature whitetail buck came within range, and I launched that 350 grain arrow into the vitals of that buck. The arrow had plastic vanes, and a 3 blade thunderhead broadhead, and I didnt even have a glove, I shot with my bare hand. The shot was quartering away and the arrow "passed through"(not a complete pass through), and the buck died 80 yards away.
Imagine what would have happened if that buck was broadside and that arrow would have nailed a rib???
Bottom line is that I got lucky, fortunatly I was hooked on it from then on since. And I learned, read books magazines and truely learned. If I can help other newbies be as effective as they can be. And not have to rely on luck. I will do my best. I think that day could have turned out terrible and I would be a compound hunter. So before you guys get mad at the newbie that askes "simple" questions, think about my story. Do you want anyone headin afeild like that? The fact is that I didnt know any better. And a person new to traditional bowhunting doesnt either, you cant erase a persons previous mentality, you can only push it back into the vault and teach them something new. The technological beast will eventually break out of the vault and realize that some of the mentality can be placed with the new.
Imagine what would have happened if that buck was broadside and that arrow would have nailed a rib???
Bottom line is that I got lucky, fortunatly I was hooked on it from then on since. And I learned, read books magazines and truely learned. If I can help other newbies be as effective as they can be. And not have to rely on luck. I will do my best. I think that day could have turned out terrible and I would be a compound hunter. So before you guys get mad at the newbie that askes "simple" questions, think about my story. Do you want anyone headin afeild like that? The fact is that I didnt know any better. And a person new to traditional bowhunting doesnt either, you cant erase a persons previous mentality, you can only push it back into the vault and teach them something new. The technological beast will eventually break out of the vault and realize that some of the mentality can be placed with the new.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Kurt Miller on February 14, 2010, 12:14:00 PM
Post by: Kurt Miller on February 14, 2010, 12:14:00 PM
I agree a lot with mojostick's comments about being bowhunter first who has taken up challenge of trad gear. Some of us have engineering backgrounds and jobs that just like to delve into the hows and whys of our gear to maximize its potential. For me, I don't tinker so much to try to get the extra fps or "modernize" the fundamental simplicity of shooting instinctive, but I want to know I at least have my gear set up as accurate as possible so when I do shoot poorly, I know it is ME and not my gear that is the shortcoming. Although no fun to swallow, it is easier for me not to get frustrated by my own shortcomings, because I get great enjoyment working on and hopefully seeing improvement from my own hard work. If you are always fighting your set up because you did not spend the "tech" time to get it right, it is easier to stay frustrated and give up because the improvement may not be physically possible no matter how much you work at it. Bottom line for me, it is still about the purity of shooting stick and string instinctively ( or however you prefer) but we must have a place for the tech aspect to help when needed. Thanks for allowing that here.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: wapous on February 14, 2010, 12:26:00 PM
Post by: wapous on February 14, 2010, 12:26:00 PM
I agree with your thoughts. But when you start with the traditional bow, you need information and technical advice. For several months, you think technology only. In fact, you seem to forget the gap between newcomers and those who know. Right now, I learn a lot from Tradgang.com site and I rarely read messages on the techniques of hunting. I have bowhunted (with a compound) for 25 years.
My main goal now is to have the technical opinion of members on various products.
I bought my recurve, and I made a good choice because of your site.
But again I repeat that you have reason to believe that! And I agree with you.
Your job is to combine both harmoniously.
My main goal now is to have the technical opinion of members on various products.
I bought my recurve, and I made a good choice because of your site.
But again I repeat that you have reason to believe that! And I agree with you.
Your job is to combine both harmoniously.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Bob Morrison on February 14, 2010, 12:30:00 PM
Post by: Bob Morrison on February 14, 2010, 12:30:00 PM
That took some time to read. Thanks Terry. Being one of the original charter members, I have seen the changes over the years, Some good Some not so good.. I hate the Bow vs other bow, Seem the best bow is the one that argues loudest. Broadheads, bow strings, Camo The same. It was really nice when you got whitetail hunting tips from hunters with 20, 30 years experiance. You don't see them here much anymore. I need to shut up now. Terry thanks again, I'm behind you 110%
Bob
Bob
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: ishiwannabe on February 14, 2010, 12:30:00 PM
Post by: ishiwannabe on February 14, 2010, 12:30:00 PM
FWIW, I think some need to read the words Terry wrote, and stop trying to read between the lines. He isnt asking a lot...
Do this....type "skinny string" or just "vs." into the search feature and only search POW WOW. Look at the number of posts that they(the mods) have to, HAVE TO, read and possibly edit. Think about how much time that takes. Time that could be spent with family or friends. In the woods. Shooting. They choose to do this, to keep this site as good as it is. I can understand the frustration.
Chris, I understand your point about bad set ups and "newbies". Im sure no one here, mods or otherwise, would let that happen if they could help it. I dont think newbies have ever gotten rebuked for asking questions. Actually, tradgang seems to have a "no question is a dumb question" mentality.
This place is a wealth of information. It gets to a point where an overload of information (read OPINIONS) is more harm than help. Confidence is a HUGE part of accurate shooting with our weapons. Belittling someone for not using a snuffer, or having a thick string, or the wrong type of silencers will do NOTHING for their individual confidence. What good does that do?
Do this....type "skinny string" or just "vs." into the search feature and only search POW WOW. Look at the number of posts that they(the mods) have to, HAVE TO, read and possibly edit. Think about how much time that takes. Time that could be spent with family or friends. In the woods. Shooting. They choose to do this, to keep this site as good as it is. I can understand the frustration.
Chris, I understand your point about bad set ups and "newbies". Im sure no one here, mods or otherwise, would let that happen if they could help it. I dont think newbies have ever gotten rebuked for asking questions. Actually, tradgang seems to have a "no question is a dumb question" mentality.
This place is a wealth of information. It gets to a point where an overload of information (read OPINIONS) is more harm than help. Confidence is a HUGE part of accurate shooting with our weapons. Belittling someone for not using a snuffer, or having a thick string, or the wrong type of silencers will do NOTHING for their individual confidence. What good does that do?
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: b.glass on February 14, 2010, 12:42:00 PM
Post by: b.glass on February 14, 2010, 12:42:00 PM
I surf until I find something that interests me or I find a question that has not been answered. Then I read and comment if I feel like it.
If it is technical and has alot of follow up I skip it. If it is a hunting question and has alot of follow up I skip it. I may read it but not contribute.
There are alot of the same things asked or comments made repeatedly. I assume it is folks new to trad bowhunting. I don't think I have THE answer to all thier questions. So if others can help them that's ok with me. The only "tech" questions that is important to me has to do with good arrow flight.
If it is technical and has alot of follow up I skip it. If it is a hunting question and has alot of follow up I skip it. I may read it but not contribute.
There are alot of the same things asked or comments made repeatedly. I assume it is folks new to trad bowhunting. I don't think I have THE answer to all thier questions. So if others can help them that's ok with me. The only "tech" questions that is important to me has to do with good arrow flight.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Muleyslayer on February 14, 2010, 12:42:00 PM
Post by: Muleyslayer on February 14, 2010, 12:42:00 PM
I'm new to tradgang and I must say it is the best thing that happened to me as of lately. I put up the training wheels because my friends and I got into to many crazy dynamic questions. I want my bow to be simple and beuatiful and the arrow to go where I tell it not the $100 site bolted on.as a newbie I still need a place to ask the questions about what works for othersand if it will work for me. This is an amazing site and Terry you do what you need to do I'm behind you all the way God Bless :campfire:
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Mojostick on February 14, 2010, 12:52:00 PM
Post by: Mojostick on February 14, 2010, 12:52:00 PM
To be honest, I had interest in switching to trad gear a few years before I actually did. The reason I didn't was because I was totally clueless on where to start.
It wasn't until I learned of a nearby trad shop, (I'm very lucky to have one) that I finally made the jump because they could answer my very basic starter questions and got me all set up properly.
I didn't have any "hunting" questions for the guys at the trad bow shop. All my "trad questions" are still tech based. My new one is, I have some Grizzly Stik Sitka's that I can shoot with 100gr points. The bare shaft great with 100grs. My question is, if I want to shoot my 150gr stingers, how much would I likely have to cut off? 1/2"? A full 1"? On stuff like that, I need to ask. But I'm only asking because I want perfect arrow flight for hunting purposes and for accurate and enjoyable target practice on my backyard 3D course.
I don't consider that to be a bad question.
It wasn't until I learned of a nearby trad shop, (I'm very lucky to have one) that I finally made the jump because they could answer my very basic starter questions and got me all set up properly.
I didn't have any "hunting" questions for the guys at the trad bow shop. All my "trad questions" are still tech based. My new one is, I have some Grizzly Stik Sitka's that I can shoot with 100gr points. The bare shaft great with 100grs. My question is, if I want to shoot my 150gr stingers, how much would I likely have to cut off? 1/2"? A full 1"? On stuff like that, I need to ask. But I'm only asking because I want perfect arrow flight for hunting purposes and for accurate and enjoyable target practice on my backyard 3D course.
I don't consider that to be a bad question.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Killdeer on February 14, 2010, 01:04:00 PM
Post by: Killdeer on February 14, 2010, 01:04:00 PM
mojostick makes some really good points with his "devil's advocacy". I also found myself nodding in agreement with NDTerminator. All this talk is good, but what do we do to get the forum back to its organic roots? Do we start yet another "tooltech forum" and shift techie subjects that way? Do I hear someone pulling out yet more rapidly thinning hair?
I agree that the old timers need to take more of an active role in funneling folks to the Search function. I also admit that as I have said many times before, technical posts full of numbers make my brain glaze over, so I am not likely to read them in the first place, nor know what has been posted in that vein in the second.
You will never see me in favor of stifling the learning and research that accompanies the many stages of our pursuit of all facets of bowhunting. Reiteration, however, is boring us silly. Maybe a lot of this stuff could go to the How-to forum, like spine charts, FOC formulae and how to set up a bow, that kinda stuff, and we could just refer folks there.
Hmm. Like my post, a lot of this is hazy and bleeds into many different areas, and organization is NOT my forte. Terry, I wish I could come up with a solution, but I can't even figure out how to organize pictures on my computer.
I hope that there will always be a fire here, available stumps and a cup of coffee for a bowhunter coming in from a cold day afield.
Killdeer
I agree that the old timers need to take more of an active role in funneling folks to the Search function. I also admit that as I have said many times before, technical posts full of numbers make my brain glaze over, so I am not likely to read them in the first place, nor know what has been posted in that vein in the second.
You will never see me in favor of stifling the learning and research that accompanies the many stages of our pursuit of all facets of bowhunting. Reiteration, however, is boring us silly. Maybe a lot of this stuff could go to the How-to forum, like spine charts, FOC formulae and how to set up a bow, that kinda stuff, and we could just refer folks there.
Hmm. Like my post, a lot of this is hazy and bleeds into many different areas, and organization is NOT my forte. Terry, I wish I could come up with a solution, but I can't even figure out how to organize pictures on my computer.
I hope that there will always be a fire here, available stumps and a cup of coffee for a bowhunter coming in from a cold day afield.
Killdeer
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Labwagn on February 14, 2010, 01:04:00 PM
Post by: Labwagn on February 14, 2010, 01:04:00 PM
One of the best posts I have ever read on this needlessly-delicate subject matter. Very well articulated.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: George D. Stout on February 14, 2010, 01:15:00 PM
Post by: George D. Stout on February 14, 2010, 01:15:00 PM
What was the original question? ;)
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: GangStarr on February 14, 2010, 01:44:00 PM
Post by: GangStarr on February 14, 2010, 01:44:00 PM
times are changing right before your eyes!!
i love how everybody is apologizing to Terry like he's our dad.
tradgang is our place to talk traditional archery nomatter how tech the talk gets.
maybe we should have the bowyers stop building bow with foam and carbon limbs,and go back to building just D shape longbows and thats it,
stop the making of carbon arrows and goback to selling wood..
maybe take everybody's bows away and give them selfbows and wood arrows!!
i myself love archery nomatter what the bow is..
i only shoot traditional but have lots of friends that shoot compounds and not only hunting compounds! guyz that shoot open class bows the ones with the 3foot stabilizers and the moveable sights. i enjoy talking shop with them and its cool to see their faces when i know about thier bows as well as mine.
"I LOVE IT"
i love archery!! i love it so much it drives me crazy some times! just ask my girlfriend.
i shoot my bow every day!
i work on my form every day!
i bareshaft and grain match every arrow i build for every bow i have to get the peek performance from that bow as well as myself.
i have 9 bows and every one is setup perfect with matching bareshafted arrows
I'm a tinkerer and i love it so who cares if guys talk tech stuff.
So what i'm saying is guys will be guys nomatter what kind of bow you give them!!
welcome to the future!!!!!!!!!
"you can please the people some of the time but" you can't please all the people all the time!!
i love how everybody is apologizing to Terry like he's our dad.
tradgang is our place to talk traditional archery nomatter how tech the talk gets.
maybe we should have the bowyers stop building bow with foam and carbon limbs,and go back to building just D shape longbows and thats it,
stop the making of carbon arrows and goback to selling wood..
maybe take everybody's bows away and give them selfbows and wood arrows!!
i myself love archery nomatter what the bow is..
i only shoot traditional but have lots of friends that shoot compounds and not only hunting compounds! guyz that shoot open class bows the ones with the 3foot stabilizers and the moveable sights. i enjoy talking shop with them and its cool to see their faces when i know about thier bows as well as mine.
"I LOVE IT"
i love archery!! i love it so much it drives me crazy some times! just ask my girlfriend.
i shoot my bow every day!
i work on my form every day!
i bareshaft and grain match every arrow i build for every bow i have to get the peek performance from that bow as well as myself.
i have 9 bows and every one is setup perfect with matching bareshafted arrows
I'm a tinkerer and i love it so who cares if guys talk tech stuff.
So what i'm saying is guys will be guys nomatter what kind of bow you give them!!
welcome to the future!!!!!!!!!
"you can please the people some of the time but" you can't please all the people all the time!!
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Altiman94 on February 14, 2010, 01:50:00 PM
Post by: Altiman94 on February 14, 2010, 01:50:00 PM
I understand what you are saying and what you mean Terry, however I don't agree with you fully. As long as the threads are trad related, who cares if we are asking on opinions of equipment? I don't think there is such a thing as a "compound" mentality. There are many compound hunters who hunt just the same as trad bow archers. Eventually this site is going to get too narrow and we want to keep the broadness and ability to share opinions. After all, it is a free membership site.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: IB on February 14, 2010, 02:07:00 PM
Post by: IB on February 14, 2010, 02:07:00 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by GangStarr:MR, Gangstarr..........May I respectfully remind you.......You are ALLOWED access to this site ( not a RIGHT but a PRIVILEGED through the generosity of Mr Green. HE DOES IN FACT OWN THE HOUSE........So I guess he can have the title of DAD!!!!!!!!
times are changing right before your eyes!!
i love how everybody is apologizing to Terry like he's our dad.
tradgang is "our place" to talk traditional archery nomatter how tech the talk gets.
"you can please the people some of the time but" you can't please all the people all the time!!
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: DVSHUNTER on February 14, 2010, 02:14:00 PM
Post by: DVSHUNTER on February 14, 2010, 02:14:00 PM
"2. To create a friendly atmosphere to ALL. Dedicated to the discussion of ALL topics that relate to traditional bowhunting."
Do what you like, it's your site. As far as I can see, the writing is on the wall.
Do what you like, it's your site. As far as I can see, the writing is on the wall.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: George D. Stout on February 14, 2010, 02:16:00 PM
Post by: George D. Stout on February 14, 2010, 02:16:00 PM
Well I'm sure there is a fine line, and Terry and his gang must figure out how we are to abide in and around that line.
I find it ironic that we can separate traditional archery from traditional bowhunting....to me they are one in the same. I know the figures numbers maniacs drive me crazy at times, but alas I'm an old man, in a young man's world. I must learn to adapt 8^).
My bringing-up in archery revolved around field archery, just like the NFAA set it up in 1942 to be a hunting training program, no less. So I still still see that as pertinent to what we discuss. I can be a traditional archer without being a bowhunter, but I don't think I can be a traditional bowhunter without being a traditional archer. 8^). Just sayin'.
We will live with whatever is decided....easy enough.
I find it ironic that we can separate traditional archery from traditional bowhunting....to me they are one in the same. I know the figures numbers maniacs drive me crazy at times, but alas I'm an old man, in a young man's world. I must learn to adapt 8^).
My bringing-up in archery revolved around field archery, just like the NFAA set it up in 1942 to be a hunting training program, no less. So I still still see that as pertinent to what we discuss. I can be a traditional archer without being a bowhunter, but I don't think I can be a traditional bowhunter without being a traditional archer. 8^). Just sayin'.
We will live with whatever is decided....easy enough.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Terry Green on February 14, 2010, 02:18:00 PM
Post by: Terry Green on February 14, 2010, 02:18:00 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by Mojostick:Here is an example of folks missing my point...and the post mojostik made in his 1st post about arrow flight. I'm not picking on mojo at all...just trying to make my point yet again.
All my "trad questions" are still tech based. My new one is, I have some Grizzly Stik Sitka's that I can shoot with 100gr points. The bare shaft great with 100grs. My question is, if I want to shoot my 150gr stingers, how much would I likely have to cut off? 1/2"? A full 1"? On stuff like that, I need to ask. But I'm only asking because I want perfect arrow flight for hunting purposes and for accurate and enjoyable target practice on my backyard 3D course.
I don't consider that to be a bad question.
The above quote and arrow flight are not 'hi-tech'....those are the basics.
I really don't know what else to say or how else to say it to get my point across to those that don't get it.
I have enjoyed the posts though....
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Mojostick on February 14, 2010, 02:36:00 PM
Post by: Mojostick on February 14, 2010, 02:36:00 PM
Terry,
I still must be somewhat missing the point a bit.
I would consider my above question a "tech" question.
Can you maybe give better example of what type of posts would you like to see more of?
On the self improvement stuff, I assume you mean things like form? I'm not sure asking that would do me much good. I know if I cant the bow too much, I twist the string because my hand is at a different angle than the bow and if I don't focus on my draw arm, my elbow will point to the sky instead of being more in line with the arrow.
But those are "my" promblems that I think only I can solve.
Maybe I'm not opening the threads you speak of, so in a sense I'm not 100% sure of what changes you'd like to see.
I still must be somewhat missing the point a bit.
I would consider my above question a "tech" question.
Can you maybe give better example of what type of posts would you like to see more of?
On the self improvement stuff, I assume you mean things like form? I'm not sure asking that would do me much good. I know if I cant the bow too much, I twist the string because my hand is at a different angle than the bow and if I don't focus on my draw arm, my elbow will point to the sky instead of being more in line with the arrow.
But those are "my" promblems that I think only I can solve.
Maybe I'm not opening the threads you speak of, so in a sense I'm not 100% sure of what changes you'd like to see.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Mike Gerardi on February 14, 2010, 02:49:00 PM
Post by: Mike Gerardi on February 14, 2010, 02:49:00 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by GangStarr:
[QB] times are changing right before your eyes!!
i love how everybody is apologizing to Terry like he's our dad.
tradgang is our place to talk traditional archery nomatter how tech the talk gets.
Wow! Maybe Terry should start charging admission!
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: artifaker1 on February 14, 2010, 02:51:00 PM
Post by: artifaker1 on February 14, 2010, 02:51:00 PM
We still love you Terry. I am vastly superior archer than I was when I entered this site, and I owe it all to Trad Gang mainly. Maybe we need a tech forum to clean out PowWow a little.
Now I'm going out to shoot.... a bow that is.
Now I'm going out to shoot.... a bow that is.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Terry Green on February 14, 2010, 02:54:00 PM
Post by: Terry Green on February 14, 2010, 02:54:00 PM
Arrow K9.....nah....we just weed the garden.
No one like gangstarr is going to tell me to 'welcome to my future' or demand they are going to cram anything down my throat in my own house and be welcome back. This is part of the mentality I'm talking about....now more folks might be getting my point.
No one like gangstarr is going to tell me to 'welcome to my future' or demand they are going to cram anything down my throat in my own house and be welcome back. This is part of the mentality I'm talking about....now more folks might be getting my point.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Mike Gerardi on February 14, 2010, 03:00:00 PM
Post by: Mike Gerardi on February 14, 2010, 03:00:00 PM
:thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: joevan125 on February 14, 2010, 03:03:00 PM
Post by: joevan125 on February 14, 2010, 03:03:00 PM
Im with George sometimes all these numbers do nothing but confuse me and in the end its mostly about form and good practice.
Arrow k9 not sure what you meant about charging admission, was that a direct stab at Terry.
Arrow k9 not sure what you meant about charging admission, was that a direct stab at Terry.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: ishoot4thrills on February 14, 2010, 03:04:00 PM
Post by: ishoot4thrills on February 14, 2010, 03:04:00 PM
Ah yes, Terry......I AM beginning to see what you're talking about now. I think I was misunderstanding YOU at first and maybe responding to everyone else posts' instead of yours. My bad.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Terry Green on February 14, 2010, 03:06:00 PM
Post by: Terry Green on February 14, 2010, 03:06:00 PM
No Joe....he was not directing anything at me.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Mike Gerardi on February 14, 2010, 03:08:00 PM
Post by: Mike Gerardi on February 14, 2010, 03:08:00 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by joevan125:No. It was a stab at gangstarr!
Im with George sometimes all these numbers do nothing but confuse me and in the end its mostly about form and good practice.
Arrow k9 not sure what you meant about charging admission, was that a direct stab at Terry.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: ottertails on February 14, 2010, 03:19:00 PM
Post by: ottertails on February 14, 2010, 03:19:00 PM
K.I.S.S......anybody remember? It's the Traditional Bowhunters motto, or used to be.
Keep-It-Simple-Stupid!!!
Thanks Terry
Keep-It-Simple-Stupid!!!
Thanks Terry
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: joevan125 on February 14, 2010, 03:21:00 PM
Post by: joevan125 on February 14, 2010, 03:21:00 PM
Ok i just went back and read it sorry Arrow k9.
I love this site and i hope in the future it stays what really attracted me to it, a place that a newbie like me can learn things about trad archery that would otherwise have taken me years to learn.
An example would be me getting to spend a weekend with Rod Jenkins and learning how to shoot a stick bow correctly.
I also have become friends with Rod and i call him at least a couple of times a month and he is ALWAYS eager to help me.
I LOVE THIS PLACE and i dont want it to become like some of these other so called trad websites.
After speaking to Terry about some issues i was going through i feel completely sure he will not let that happen.
I love this site and i hope in the future it stays what really attracted me to it, a place that a newbie like me can learn things about trad archery that would otherwise have taken me years to learn.
An example would be me getting to spend a weekend with Rod Jenkins and learning how to shoot a stick bow correctly.
I also have become friends with Rod and i call him at least a couple of times a month and he is ALWAYS eager to help me.
I LOVE THIS PLACE and i dont want it to become like some of these other so called trad websites.
After speaking to Terry about some issues i was going through i feel completely sure he will not let that happen.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Mike Gerardi on February 14, 2010, 03:25:00 PM
Post by: Mike Gerardi on February 14, 2010, 03:25:00 PM
No apology necessary joevan125.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: heydeerman on February 14, 2010, 03:29:00 PM
Post by: heydeerman on February 14, 2010, 03:29:00 PM
Terry,
The things you state in your original post have been the reason I have become a lurker on here for the most part. I have not posted much for the last year or so. I agree with you but what can a guy do to change what people are talking about?
The things you state in your original post have been the reason I have become a lurker on here for the most part. I have not posted much for the last year or so. I agree with you but what can a guy do to change what people are talking about?
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: IB on February 14, 2010, 03:41:00 PM
Post by: IB on February 14, 2010, 03:41:00 PM
"We need to learn to gain a love for the purpose of Archery.
Not the Act of Archery,
and a knowledge of learning the difference"
Traditional Bow Hunting/Archery, is a very personal destination that we have chosen. It comes with many basics and no absolutes. It is an endless string of trials and errors that we must endure to get to where we desire to be.
Not one person with Traditional gear has the right answer, at the very best we can share and should share, what is and has worked for us. The experiences we have had good , bad, and ugly. Again no one has a definitive answer, because there is none and never is one, at best it will be Trial and Error.
How can anyone even attempt to answer a question like "Who makes the best Recurve" that question is so subjective and loaded, it begs for an argument.
Which is better Longbow or recurve ?? Well I shoot both, either with a Tab or a glove and sometimes bare fingers......I always try and make sure that the next arrow out of the quiver is sharp. What broad head, is determined by which arrow comes up next.
I spend time with my bows, arrows and all the gear, just like I do with my family because Archery is. a personal relationship, as is my family. I know the broad heads I shoot will work for me and my bows anything less doesn't make the cut. Only I can make my relationship work.
I have a friend who consistently drops his bow hand, takes game on a regular basis and is a nock busting arrow busting bugger......Now, how he shoots bugs the snot out of me, because it's just plain wrong and doesn't work. 50+ years ago he entered a relationship, has nurtured that relationship and beware it does work!! Who's Right??
Even in the basics every thing is different from person to person, help of any kind, at best is a starting point for your personal relationship.
Eat the meat and spit out the bones.
Trial and Error.......Success and Failures.....Nurture your relationships.........
Make sure your bow is in............ GOOD HANDS
Not the Act of Archery,
and a knowledge of learning the difference"
Traditional Bow Hunting/Archery, is a very personal destination that we have chosen. It comes with many basics and no absolutes. It is an endless string of trials and errors that we must endure to get to where we desire to be.
Not one person with Traditional gear has the right answer, at the very best we can share and should share, what is and has worked for us. The experiences we have had good , bad, and ugly. Again no one has a definitive answer, because there is none and never is one, at best it will be Trial and Error.
How can anyone even attempt to answer a question like "Who makes the best Recurve" that question is so subjective and loaded, it begs for an argument.
Which is better Longbow or recurve ?? Well I shoot both, either with a Tab or a glove and sometimes bare fingers......I always try and make sure that the next arrow out of the quiver is sharp. What broad head, is determined by which arrow comes up next.
I spend time with my bows, arrows and all the gear, just like I do with my family because Archery is. a personal relationship, as is my family. I know the broad heads I shoot will work for me and my bows anything less doesn't make the cut. Only I can make my relationship work.
I have a friend who consistently drops his bow hand, takes game on a regular basis and is a nock busting arrow busting bugger......Now, how he shoots bugs the snot out of me, because it's just plain wrong and doesn't work. 50+ years ago he entered a relationship, has nurtured that relationship and beware it does work!! Who's Right??
Even in the basics every thing is different from person to person, help of any kind, at best is a starting point for your personal relationship.
Eat the meat and spit out the bones.
Trial and Error.......Success and Failures.....Nurture your relationships.........
Make sure your bow is in............ GOOD HANDS
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: DW on February 14, 2010, 03:56:00 PM
Post by: DW on February 14, 2010, 03:56:00 PM
Well I see that it has been quiet since we've been gone to the Pig-Gig :bigsmyl:
Seriously, there were around 28 Trad Gang Members there and I heard this very Subject mentioned several times...."Different from the old days", "Too much technical Stuff lately", "Where's the hunting Stories?"...
The Technical threads have a place but can be very repetitive just like has been mentioned already...
Skyler and I love this place. We've made life-long friends here...People that I'm proud to let my Son call friend.....Trad Gang and BOWHUNTING are the reason for that.
Personally I love the Hunting threads more than anything Here but find myself searching for certain threads or subjects often.
Now gonna go post about Hog Hunting in 6 inches of Mud for 3 days and then 6 in. of Mud and 4 in. of Snow for 2 days...An Adventure and I wouldn't want to be anywhere else. Don
Seriously, there were around 28 Trad Gang Members there and I heard this very Subject mentioned several times...."Different from the old days", "Too much technical Stuff lately", "Where's the hunting Stories?"...
The Technical threads have a place but can be very repetitive just like has been mentioned already...
Skyler and I love this place. We've made life-long friends here...People that I'm proud to let my Son call friend.....Trad Gang and BOWHUNTING are the reason for that.
Personally I love the Hunting threads more than anything Here but find myself searching for certain threads or subjects often.
Now gonna go post about Hog Hunting in 6 inches of Mud for 3 days and then 6 in. of Mud and 4 in. of Snow for 2 days...An Adventure and I wouldn't want to be anywhere else. Don
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Chris Shelton on February 14, 2010, 03:58:00 PM
Post by: Chris Shelton on February 14, 2010, 03:58:00 PM
QuoteChris, I understand your point about bad set ups and "newbies". Im sure no one here, mods or otherwise, would let that happen if they could help it. I dont think newbies have ever gotten rebuked for asking questions. Actually, tradgang seems to have a "no question is a dumb question" mentality.I know that and you know that. This is definatly a open site, but what scares me is that they might now feel afraid to ask a quesiton like that.
[/QB]
Although I love Iron Bulls last post, because that is mainly how I learned traditional archery, I taught myself, from the getgo. all the way up from the stick from the back yard at the ripe old age of 12.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: adirondack46r on February 14, 2010, 04:04:00 PM
Post by: adirondack46r on February 14, 2010, 04:04:00 PM
What's all the talk about this being a private domain that we are given the privilege to participate in? We visit in droves, sponsors pay for the right to make "impressions" on the masses, and we patronize them. Seems a lot like a public market to me. Our visits have value, or so the sponsors think. Limit access to the handful willing to have their posts further constrained and sponsors will flee. Is it still just a "privilege" to visit here? Somebody needs to read the Cathedral and the Bazaar.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: dick sable on February 14, 2010, 04:10:00 PM
Post by: dick sable on February 14, 2010, 04:10:00 PM
Even though the other 18 thousand haven't chirped in, I will. I've learned more from tradgang than all the books you could read in a year. I appreciate it all, and enjoy the give and take I've seen on this thread, for example. Really, I've never seen a more open minded bunch of folks - - - people from far and wide - - engaged in discussion with civility! When I have time to be on the computer, I love to pick and choose the threads that interest and educate me. Kind of like having a day alone to browse through a world class library. "Don't ask me - - I don't know nothin'"
Good discussion.
Good discussion.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Terry Green on February 14, 2010, 04:20:00 PM
Post by: Terry Green on February 14, 2010, 04:20:00 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by adirondack46r:Hold on and I'll show you what that means...
What's all the talk about this being a private domain that we are given the privilege to participate in? We visit in droves, sponsors pay for the right to make "impressions" on the masses, and we patronize them. Seems a lot like a public market to me. Our visits have value, or so the sponsors think. Limit access to the handful willing to have their posts further constrained and sponsors will flee. Is it still just a "privilege" to visit here? Somebody needs to read the Cathedral and the Bazaar.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Ranger44 on February 14, 2010, 04:31:00 PM
Post by: Ranger44 on February 14, 2010, 04:31:00 PM
This has been an interesting read. I'm new to the site(joined in Jan 2010) so I don't know how it "used to be." I'm 52 and last shot a trad bow, a recurve, when I was teenager. I originally came here because I was interested in building a bow for myself.
I have no mentor which would be best but have always enjoyed just figuring stuff out. But, these days with all the information at your fingertips it's easier to read up a little and get a good head start before I screw up the first move.
I don't know if I will ever build a shooter or hunt with a trad bow but I do know that this site has provided a wealth of information and I can choose to use/read/believe what I want.
I don't post much because I have so much to learn and so little knowledge to input on the majority of subjects.
I want to thank Terry for the site and the rest of the people for sharing all the info that helps someone like me more than can be explained here.
I have no mentor which would be best but have always enjoyed just figuring stuff out. But, these days with all the information at your fingertips it's easier to read up a little and get a good head start before I screw up the first move.
I don't know if I will ever build a shooter or hunt with a trad bow but I do know that this site has provided a wealth of information and I can choose to use/read/believe what I want.
I don't post much because I have so much to learn and so little knowledge to input on the majority of subjects.
I want to thank Terry for the site and the rest of the people for sharing all the info that helps someone like me more than can be explained here.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Muleyslayer on February 14, 2010, 04:33:00 PM
Post by: Muleyslayer on February 14, 2010, 04:33:00 PM
As a new guy I like the K.I.S.S. mentality and thats one reason I'm switching to trad.gear. but guys like me need a place were we can ask that SIMPLE question, not high tech, just, well like when I asked for some basic help, forest creature,papafrank,and k9arrow and more all offered help,k9arrow even met up with me and gave me an arrow to try, my fence is no longer getting filled with holes,(lol),i'm hitting my mark, thanks guys, best, friendliest site on the web and I tried them all. :campfire:
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: halsey on February 14, 2010, 05:07:00 PM
Post by: halsey on February 14, 2010, 05:07:00 PM
Well, maybe if everybody just agreed with the admin, or terry, the world would be better. :knothead:
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Duckbutt on February 14, 2010, 05:09:00 PM
Post by: Duckbutt on February 14, 2010, 05:09:00 PM
I haven't read all of this and probably will not. I like this site because it is basically talk around my favorite topic and it has always felt like everyone that can act like a gentleman (or lady) is welcome around the campfire of said topic....unlike most of the sites that evolve to bringing out the worst in folks.
Kind of an interesting line in the sand that seems to be developing here.....Hope it turns out for the best.
Kind of an interesting line in the sand that seems to be developing here.....Hope it turns out for the best.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Terry Green on February 14, 2010, 06:29:00 PM
Post by: Terry Green on February 14, 2010, 06:29:00 PM
The problem seems to be working out already....in more ways than one. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Mr Green 740 on February 14, 2010, 06:46:00 PM
Post by: Mr Green 740 on February 14, 2010, 06:46:00 PM
I Really agree with NDTerminators view. Why noy have a forum for the technical questions so if someone doesnt like it they dont have to look? I personally enjoy hearing ALL discussions and points of view.Ive learned to listen to EVERYONE and if their advice is meaningful to ME I use it. I think it would be a shame to keep everyone in the same box.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Steve O on February 14, 2010, 06:50:00 PM
Post by: Steve O on February 14, 2010, 06:50:00 PM
Well, I've only read the first page and the last couple.
I enjoy everything about this place and I am so glad we have it as a place to come and learn and share.
The fun thing about traditional archery is there are no absolutes, because the human being that is pulling, holding, and releasing is an imperfect machine and plays an EXTREMELY intergral part in that arrow going where it is supposed to go.
Take this question from a couple pages back:
There are a lot of "experts" now touting absolutes and that is a bad thing.
A buddy of mine today said we've got to switch this certain something on our arrow setup today because someone else had told him about a magazine article they had read...I told him we'd make up a few like that and test it ourselves and see how it worked for us on OUR bows before we just started making wholesale changes.
Spine Calculators are a great tool and are a good starting point. Ashby studies are a great tool and if I need that last 1 or 2% of penetration someday I will use some of those great findings. They are not absolutes. Use the tools and knowledge here to bolster your own field experience and it will make you a better hunter, but nothing here should be taken as gospel.
Terry :thumbsup: I like being able to come into YOUR site. Thanks for the many years of enjoyment :campfire:
Someday I'm going to have to go back and read through ALL of this one :)
I enjoy everything about this place and I am so glad we have it as a place to come and learn and share.
The fun thing about traditional archery is there are no absolutes, because the human being that is pulling, holding, and releasing is an imperfect machine and plays an EXTREMELY intergral part in that arrow going where it is supposed to go.
Take this question from a couple pages back:
QuoteI didn't have any "hunting" questions for the guys at the trad bow shop. All my "trad questions" are still tech based. My new one is, I have some Grizzly Stik Sitka's that I can shoot with 100gr points. The bare shaft great with 100grs. My question is, if I want to shoot my 150gr stingers, how much would I likely have to cut off? 1/2"? A full 1"? On stuff like that, I need to ask. But I'm only asking because I want perfect arrow flight for hunting purposes and for accurate and enjoyable target practice on my backyard 3D course.Now, I don't call this a BAD question, but I do consider it a question ONLY Mojo can answer for himself. The only possible way to answer that question is to screw those 150s on and head to the range...you may be tuned just on the stiff side and with the taper on the Sitkas, you might not have to do anything. Only you, your form, your release, and your bow are going to have that answer for sure. Sure, we can look at things and guys that have similar setups would be able to say for certain, with the information you've given about your setup, the Sitkas would be their choice to start with based on past experience, but no one can tell you the exact lenght you need except you. They can tell you if you go up in point weight, it weakens the shaft, and if you cut a carbon shaft down, it will stiffen it. But to give you a specific amount to cut off, no way.
I don't consider that to be a bad question.
There are a lot of "experts" now touting absolutes and that is a bad thing.
A buddy of mine today said we've got to switch this certain something on our arrow setup today because someone else had told him about a magazine article they had read...I told him we'd make up a few like that and test it ourselves and see how it worked for us on OUR bows before we just started making wholesale changes.
Spine Calculators are a great tool and are a good starting point. Ashby studies are a great tool and if I need that last 1 or 2% of penetration someday I will use some of those great findings. They are not absolutes. Use the tools and knowledge here to bolster your own field experience and it will make you a better hunter, but nothing here should be taken as gospel.
Terry :thumbsup: I like being able to come into YOUR site. Thanks for the many years of enjoyment :campfire:
Someday I'm going to have to go back and read through ALL of this one :)
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: leatherneck on February 14, 2010, 07:01:00 PM
Post by: leatherneck on February 14, 2010, 07:01:00 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by adirondack46r:Dude, you ought to be glad I'm not the gardner. This is like the 3rd post you have on this thread and all 3 are not ways to help the problem, YOU SIR, ARE PART OF THE PROBLEM!! In my eyes at least.
What's all the talk about this being a private domain that we are given the privilege to participate in? We visit in droves, sponsors pay for the right to make "impressions" on the masses, and we patronize them. Seems a lot like a public market to me. Our visits have value, or so the sponsors think. Limit access to the handful willing to have their posts further constrained and sponsors will flee. Is it still just a "privilege" to visit here? Somebody needs to read the Cathedral and the Bazaar.
There comes that Italian in me again. I better shut up now.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Terry Green on February 14, 2010, 07:06:00 PM
Post by: Terry Green on February 14, 2010, 07:06:00 PM
Its like I said earlier....some either aren't reading my responses....or have chosen not to hear or get it.
I'd like to thank all those that have posted positively here as it sure looks from the overwhelming response that the site had drifted off course.
And, I'd like to thank all those members and sponsors that email and called me.
Thanks again...I think 19 pages is enough....lets get back to hunting....there are some stories on the way....
I'd like to thank all those that have posted positively here as it sure looks from the overwhelming response that the site had drifted off course.
And, I'd like to thank all those members and sponsors that email and called me.
Thanks again...I think 19 pages is enough....lets get back to hunting....there are some stories on the way....
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Guru on January 22, 2011, 04:55:00 PM
Post by: Guru on January 22, 2011, 04:55:00 PM
Looks like we need another go round with this thread...
There's a trend here going again, not sure if the time of year, maybe because seasons are over and folks have too much time on their hands...whatever...
Just hate to see guys that are getting started worrying about things they need not worry about.
Get yourself an arrow that flys well, with a good sharp bh, and go out and kill stuff with it!
Way too many new guys fretting about bevels, feather size, efoc,ufoc, etc...
Please go back and read this.... :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
There's a trend here going again, not sure if the time of year, maybe because seasons are over and folks have too much time on their hands...whatever...
Just hate to see guys that are getting started worrying about things they need not worry about.
Get yourself an arrow that flys well, with a good sharp bh, and go out and kill stuff with it!
Way too many new guys fretting about bevels, feather size, efoc,ufoc, etc...
Please go back and read this.... :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Green on January 22, 2011, 05:11:00 PM
Post by: Green on January 22, 2011, 05:11:00 PM
Point taken y'all. I participated in one of the threads that got locked today. As I see it, yes... form, practice, and equipment all blend together for each individual recreational shooter and bowhunter.
Myself, I am just returning to trad archery and bowhunting, and there is plenty of new information available here on tradgang that wasn't a part of life back when there was no internet.
Maybe answering someone's questions regarding members' experience in the tech side of equipment should best be referred to the search feature.
I see several comments about members not being hunters and want to remind folks that the economy has taken a heavy toll on many people, myself included. Personally, as I regain my financial footing hunting will be second thing that gets added back to my life.....right behind the simple pleasure of launching well tuned arrows with good form towards the target. These arrows are "newfangled" and my shooting form has been rebuilt with the help of Terry and the many posts/threads on this site. I hope that flow of information and exchange of ideas/experiences never stops.
Myself, I am just returning to trad archery and bowhunting, and there is plenty of new information available here on tradgang that wasn't a part of life back when there was no internet.
Maybe answering someone's questions regarding members' experience in the tech side of equipment should best be referred to the search feature.
I see several comments about members not being hunters and want to remind folks that the economy has taken a heavy toll on many people, myself included. Personally, as I regain my financial footing hunting will be second thing that gets added back to my life.....right behind the simple pleasure of launching well tuned arrows with good form towards the target. These arrows are "newfangled" and my shooting form has been rebuilt with the help of Terry and the many posts/threads on this site. I hope that flow of information and exchange of ideas/experiences never stops.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Drummer@Home on January 22, 2011, 05:27:00 PM
Post by: Drummer@Home on January 22, 2011, 05:27:00 PM
I used to read almost every powwow post. Now-a-days its like, really? this is all we can talk about?. Thank goodness someone else feels this way. I thought it was just me :banghead:
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Drummer@Home on January 22, 2011, 05:28:00 PM
Post by: Drummer@Home on January 22, 2011, 05:28:00 PM
Oh and if I see one VS thread I swear I'm gonna puke!!
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Ron+dog on January 22, 2011, 05:37:00 PM
Post by: Ron+dog on January 22, 2011, 05:37:00 PM
you said it brother !
speaking for my self i have been guilty of the "equipment buzz" alittle my self. but not because i need to play keep up with the drurys, as much as being new to the sport and green to trad. i want to be able to try out all the bells and whistles i can and get input on the same. thank you terry, for this reminder and for showing a newbee that the trad way is the best way.
:notworthy: :clapper: :archer2:
speaking for my self i have been guilty of the "equipment buzz" alittle my self. but not because i need to play keep up with the drurys, as much as being new to the sport and green to trad. i want to be able to try out all the bells and whistles i can and get input on the same. thank you terry, for this reminder and for showing a newbee that the trad way is the best way.
:notworthy: :clapper: :archer2:
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: SEMO_HUNTER on January 22, 2011, 06:07:00 PM
Post by: SEMO_HUNTER on January 22, 2011, 06:07:00 PM
I understand where your coming from Terry, I get it. I can also imagine the charter members that have been here on Trad Gang since it's inception have heard every question imaginable 1,000's of times. It's probably not too far of a stretch to think that even the most reasonable and tolerable gents would grow tired of answering the same old questions once or twice a week.
Since I am new to trad archery, I only ask that the more experienced fellas please forgive my dumb questions before they are asked. If I don't ask them, how will I ever know? I don't have any friends who shoot trad, and I don't have a pro shop nearby that caters to traditional archers. So this is basically the only place I can learn the old ways and I sure thank each one of you for sharing your information with me. 99% of the guys/gals here have been nothing but kind and respectful toward me. I sincerely appreciate that.
I first came here looking for advice on how to improve my shooting ability.
I stayed because of the enormous base of traditional knowledge here, the friendly atmosphere, and the friendships that I have made here.
I guess what I'm really trying to say is......we all love traditional archery for the simplicity of it.
And helping out the new guys (Like Me) with their redundant questions, and constant pestering is the only way to ensure the traditional fire continues to burn.
:campfire:
Thanks to all here for helping me.
Chris
Since I am new to trad archery, I only ask that the more experienced fellas please forgive my dumb questions before they are asked. If I don't ask them, how will I ever know? I don't have any friends who shoot trad, and I don't have a pro shop nearby that caters to traditional archers. So this is basically the only place I can learn the old ways and I sure thank each one of you for sharing your information with me. 99% of the guys/gals here have been nothing but kind and respectful toward me. I sincerely appreciate that.
I first came here looking for advice on how to improve my shooting ability.
I stayed because of the enormous base of traditional knowledge here, the friendly atmosphere, and the friendships that I have made here.
I guess what I'm really trying to say is......we all love traditional archery for the simplicity of it.
And helping out the new guys (Like Me) with their redundant questions, and constant pestering is the only way to ensure the traditional fire continues to burn.
:campfire:
Thanks to all here for helping me.
Chris
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: thump on January 22, 2011, 06:16:00 PM
Post by: thump on January 22, 2011, 06:16:00 PM
I missed this one nice to see it come back up top.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Kapellmeister on January 22, 2011, 06:27:00 PM
Post by: Kapellmeister on January 22, 2011, 06:27:00 PM
I missed this thread too...
I've only been shooting trad for a couple of years and only exclusively trad for the past year. I found this site early on and have gleaned a lot of good information but I was a little intimidated at first - thinking it was too much like physics class for me! ;)
I decided just to shoot more and worry about the physics less... and it's really paid off. My shooting has improved greatly this year. I have to admit that using Stu Miller's calculator helped me to get a good start with arrows... but I also have to admit that none of the "techie" stuff affects my shooting more than the proverbial "nut behind the wheel"!
"Thank you" to all of you trad gurus who share your knowledge, expertise and experience here! I've enjoyed archery for 12 years but never as much as this past year! :archer:
I've only been shooting trad for a couple of years and only exclusively trad for the past year. I found this site early on and have gleaned a lot of good information but I was a little intimidated at first - thinking it was too much like physics class for me! ;)
I decided just to shoot more and worry about the physics less... and it's really paid off. My shooting has improved greatly this year. I have to admit that using Stu Miller's calculator helped me to get a good start with arrows... but I also have to admit that none of the "techie" stuff affects my shooting more than the proverbial "nut behind the wheel"!
"Thank you" to all of you trad gurus who share your knowledge, expertise and experience here! I've enjoyed archery for 12 years but never as much as this past year! :archer:
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: customcrester on January 22, 2011, 06:58:00 PM
Post by: customcrester on January 22, 2011, 06:58:00 PM
Well said Terry and i agree! I am as guilty as the next guy. I think we are getting too caught up in our equipment and have lost sight to some extent of what traditional archery is all about. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Richie on January 22, 2011, 07:06:00 PM
Post by: Richie on January 22, 2011, 07:06:00 PM
Terry is right on the money, awesome post Terry.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: ECRESS on January 22, 2011, 07:19:00 PM
Post by: ECRESS on January 22, 2011, 07:19:00 PM
Terry im new but you sure made me relize the is no magic wand.i sure have been frustrated trying to find one too.thanks frome a newbe.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: TimDougan on January 22, 2011, 07:57:00 PM
Post by: TimDougan on January 22, 2011, 07:57:00 PM
Sound wisdom.TD.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: droz il on January 22, 2011, 07:58:00 PM
Post by: droz il on January 22, 2011, 07:58:00 PM
Totally agree.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: anchorman on January 22, 2011, 08:12:00 PM
Post by: anchorman on January 22, 2011, 08:12:00 PM
No need to apologize Terry....I think that some of us need to remember why we hunt and shoot trad....Thanks for caring.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: bendbig on January 22, 2011, 08:25:00 PM
Post by: bendbig on January 22, 2011, 08:25:00 PM
Wow I can't believe I missed this. I agree 110%. I have noticed the trend, and liked Terry's original post. I would like to thank ALL of the admin's for doing their best to keep us all (including me) on track. Thanks
Glenn
Glenn
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Ric O'Shay on January 22, 2011, 08:37:00 PM
Post by: Ric O'Shay on January 22, 2011, 08:37:00 PM
I'm right there with a lot of others in wondering to myself, "How did I miss this a year ago"? Anyway, now that it has resurfaced, I too agree with Terry's original post and ask, " How I can I be a better hunter?" Not "What new techie gadget can I stuff in my pack?"
BTW - What does ILF stand for and why are there so many metal handles showing up? Rhetorical, I don't really want or need to know.
BTW - What does ILF stand for and why are there so many metal handles showing up? Rhetorical, I don't really want or need to know.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Bowwild on January 22, 2011, 09:27:00 PM
Post by: Bowwild on January 22, 2011, 09:27:00 PM
I've been pondering this thread, having just seen it for the first time. Until I returned back in the spring I was gone from Trad Gang for about 5 years or so.
I have to admit folks, I don't get it? I didn't realize we were off or getting off course. I don't read every topic, some don't interest me. Some are repeats for me but obiously not for the intiator of the topic.
I don't want to be part of a perceived problem, so I need to find out if I am. Are some of these topics counter to the Mission of Pow Wow or Trad Gang?
--Form discussions
--How to tune
--How to make arrows
--Give aways
--Welcomes & Condolences
--Hunt reports
--Questions about hunting
--Quivers, gloves, tabs
--Pictures of bows
--Why shoot a longbow or a recurve
--How to scout
--How to blood trail
--How to make good on shots at game
Of course, related, and other topics abound here. I haven't noticed any difference in the 9-10 months I've been back but it seems some topics are an irritant?
I'm not as active as some here. I shoot almost every day. I bowhunt 3-4 dozen times per year in at least two states. I get my hunting fix in the field, not here.
I do know this, I would be a few thousand bucks better off if not for some of the bows and other equipment I've discovered from posters here (and glad for it). I now buy from a far more diverse group of vendors than I ever did before.
I don't know how many of the nearly 30,000 folks who have registered at one time or another still post or lurk, but I imagine it's thousands? If so, the diversity of thought and preferences has produced the current crop of topics and posts.
So, I guess if some of us are misbehave'n I'd like to know exactly how, cause if I am, I can fix me.
I'm trying to remember the last "techie gadget" I read being discussed here? How many gadgets can we have: bows, arrows, broadheads, quiver, and clothing?
I'm thinking of an "E" word here that traditionalists are a bit known for and hoping I'm wrong? And like the country song went, 'I was shooting traditional (like many here) when traditional wasn't cool.'
Respectfully.
I have to admit folks, I don't get it? I didn't realize we were off or getting off course. I don't read every topic, some don't interest me. Some are repeats for me but obiously not for the intiator of the topic.
I don't want to be part of a perceived problem, so I need to find out if I am. Are some of these topics counter to the Mission of Pow Wow or Trad Gang?
--Form discussions
--How to tune
--How to make arrows
--Give aways
--Welcomes & Condolences
--Hunt reports
--Questions about hunting
--Quivers, gloves, tabs
--Pictures of bows
--Why shoot a longbow or a recurve
--How to scout
--How to blood trail
--How to make good on shots at game
Of course, related, and other topics abound here. I haven't noticed any difference in the 9-10 months I've been back but it seems some topics are an irritant?
I'm not as active as some here. I shoot almost every day. I bowhunt 3-4 dozen times per year in at least two states. I get my hunting fix in the field, not here.
I do know this, I would be a few thousand bucks better off if not for some of the bows and other equipment I've discovered from posters here (and glad for it). I now buy from a far more diverse group of vendors than I ever did before.
I don't know how many of the nearly 30,000 folks who have registered at one time or another still post or lurk, but I imagine it's thousands? If so, the diversity of thought and preferences has produced the current crop of topics and posts.
So, I guess if some of us are misbehave'n I'd like to know exactly how, cause if I am, I can fix me.
I'm trying to remember the last "techie gadget" I read being discussed here? How many gadgets can we have: bows, arrows, broadheads, quiver, and clothing?
I'm thinking of an "E" word here that traditionalists are a bit known for and hoping I'm wrong? And like the country song went, 'I was shooting traditional (like many here) when traditional wasn't cool.'
Respectfully.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: sweeney3 on January 22, 2011, 10:33:00 PM
Post by: sweeney3 on January 22, 2011, 10:33:00 PM
Agreed. I've thought it seemed a little equipment heavy sometimes. Still a top notch site though. Glad you all are putting in the effort to keep it that way.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: COLongbow on January 22, 2011, 11:13:00 PM
Post by: COLongbow on January 22, 2011, 11:13:00 PM
I have to admit I've run afoul of the mods a time or two..
But there's no better place on the 'net for Trad.
This place exists thanks to the mods!
Rob, please accept my apologies for past sins.
I start and finish my day with TG!
But there's no better place on the 'net for Trad.
This place exists thanks to the mods!
Rob, please accept my apologies for past sins.
I start and finish my day with TG!
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Pepper on January 22, 2011, 11:29:00 PM
Post by: Pepper on January 22, 2011, 11:29:00 PM
Well said, and some deep thought.
I agree, and will speak for myself on this thought.
I love traditional archery, and I don't think that I will ever embrace perfection, but the jouney is a blast.
I come here to find out what it takes for me to approach that goal, and the other gangers here have helped me greatly.
I surf the different forums here, and find myself bypassing the ultra technical posts, and lean toward the success stories and pictures, and those who succede, and those who are still searching for that success.
I hope for all our sakes that we can revert from whence we came and focus on our ultimate goal, to be a part of that society who won't give up in our quest for success in the great life of traditional archery.
Thanks Terry, and all the trad gang for your help and support.
I agree, and will speak for myself on this thought.
I love traditional archery, and I don't think that I will ever embrace perfection, but the jouney is a blast.
I come here to find out what it takes for me to approach that goal, and the other gangers here have helped me greatly.
I surf the different forums here, and find myself bypassing the ultra technical posts, and lean toward the success stories and pictures, and those who succede, and those who are still searching for that success.
I hope for all our sakes that we can revert from whence we came and focus on our ultimate goal, to be a part of that society who won't give up in our quest for success in the great life of traditional archery.
Thanks Terry, and all the trad gang for your help and support.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Jim Jackson on January 22, 2011, 11:42:00 PM
Post by: Jim Jackson on January 22, 2011, 11:42:00 PM
Quote--Form discussionsI think the mods agree that these are all good topics. The stuff that gets out of hand are redundant threads on the effectiveness of 36% FOC vs 35% FOC arrows, or the latest double bevel/single bevel argument, or the latest gadget for blood trailing instead of basic woodsmanship.
--How to tune
--How to make arrows
--Give aways
--Welcomes & Condolences
--Hunt reports
--Questions about hunting
--Quivers, gloves, tabs
--Pictures of bows
--Why shoot a longbow or a recurve
--How to scout
--How to blood trail
--How to make good on shots at game
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Gary Logsdon on January 22, 2011, 11:52:00 PM
Post by: Gary Logsdon on January 22, 2011, 11:52:00 PM
"Archery is seeing how far you can get from the target and hit it, bowhunting is seeing how close you can get and not miss."
I always loved that quote, and relate a lot better to the threads which support the latter.
I always loved that quote, and relate a lot better to the threads which support the latter.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Jim Jackson on January 22, 2011, 11:54:00 PM
Post by: Jim Jackson on January 22, 2011, 11:54:00 PM
QuoteI feel for the newbies. I think you guys shut them down too fast. They go elsewhere.The first thing each of us should do in looking for an answer to questions is to go to the search feature. Chances are its been asked before, and might be better to bring an older thread to the top rather than start a new one for the 100th time. Having said that, 99% of the time a question from a neophyte is answered gracefully and quickly due to the generosity of those onboard this site. We all remember what it was like to start out new in this endeavor, and I find Tradgang to be the most welcoming and helpful group out there.
QuoteI just don't get the reason why some threads are shut down, while others that seem "mechanical also" stay open.There are almost 30,000 of us on this site now. Sometimes a questionable thread isn't noticed for a while but eventually it all sorts itself out. You ask most of us and we've all had a thread pulled. Its nothing personal, just necessary pruning to keep the tree growing in the right direction.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: SEMO_HUNTER on January 23, 2011, 12:09:00 AM
Post by: SEMO_HUNTER on January 23, 2011, 12:09:00 AM
I had one pulled yesterday, no biggie. It was a redundant post and should be deleted. I'm not offended by it, as a matter of fact I requested that it be deleted when it was pointed out to me that it was a redundant post.....and my request was granted. Problem solved.
I also find myself dodging the "techie" type posts, but that's just me. FOC doesn't matter so much to me as does correct wt. to lb. ratio and a sharp BH, but us new fellas gotta learn somehow.
I'd rather get my butt jumped by you all who know what they're talking about rather than somebody who doesn't know squat.
I also find myself dodging the "techie" type posts, but that's just me. FOC doesn't matter so much to me as does correct wt. to lb. ratio and a sharp BH, but us new fellas gotta learn somehow.
I'd rather get my butt jumped by you all who know what they're talking about rather than somebody who doesn't know squat.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Zradix on January 23, 2011, 12:21:00 AM
Post by: Zradix on January 23, 2011, 12:21:00 AM
Lots of good thoughts here.
I made a post a while back about about how things seemed different here as stated by Terry and was told by the admin it's just a cycle.
I really like the technical side of archery.
There are reasons to know what is happening when you let the arrow fly.
A lot of the techy questions won't help you in the woods...or will they?
I mean FOC posts for instance, will more foc help you take a deer...maybe. Will a 25%foc arrow kill better than an 1% foc...maybe.
Where do you draw the line in what is acceptable to post about and what isn't?
Trad archery HAS a technical side to it.
Ask any bowyer.
Trad hunting is trad archery+other skills.
You can't truly excel at trad hunting without the whole package.
I don't have the whole package. I try to improve in all areas.
I love trad gang. I've learned more here about trad archery than I can even put a finger on.
I think the root of the problem might be that we are all hunters. We hunt the same game as other people that use compounds and guns.
Our biggest difference from others is the choice of our weapon. I think it's only natural for many of us to want to know every little nuance of our choice of weapon.
I think it's disrespectful to our prey NOT to consider the technical side of archery in order to improve our odds of a clean kill.
It's been said before that 90% of this game is mental. If that 1% more foc gives you a mental edge..so be it. The deer might not notice but you might be more confident because of it.
Terry, I guess the bottom line is that it's your party. Sometimes the guests might have conversations you find annoying.
I can't think of any other way to keep guests, talking among themselves, from speaking about a topic you don't like other than spelling it out in black and white what is acceptable and what isn't.
This forum has rules.
Most abide by them well.
If you feel more rules are needed..so be it.
It's your party.
I think some might go elsewhere if more rules are added.
I think some new comers will be turned off.
But, if you don't want these people at the party anyway....?
Sounds like some people would be happy not to have to look away from posts they don't like.
It's your call.
Just let us know the rules.
I made a post a while back about about how things seemed different here as stated by Terry and was told by the admin it's just a cycle.
I really like the technical side of archery.
There are reasons to know what is happening when you let the arrow fly.
A lot of the techy questions won't help you in the woods...or will they?
I mean FOC posts for instance, will more foc help you take a deer...maybe. Will a 25%foc arrow kill better than an 1% foc...maybe.
Where do you draw the line in what is acceptable to post about and what isn't?
Trad archery HAS a technical side to it.
Ask any bowyer.
Trad hunting is trad archery+other skills.
You can't truly excel at trad hunting without the whole package.
I don't have the whole package. I try to improve in all areas.
I love trad gang. I've learned more here about trad archery than I can even put a finger on.
I think the root of the problem might be that we are all hunters. We hunt the same game as other people that use compounds and guns.
Our biggest difference from others is the choice of our weapon. I think it's only natural for many of us to want to know every little nuance of our choice of weapon.
I think it's disrespectful to our prey NOT to consider the technical side of archery in order to improve our odds of a clean kill.
It's been said before that 90% of this game is mental. If that 1% more foc gives you a mental edge..so be it. The deer might not notice but you might be more confident because of it.
Terry, I guess the bottom line is that it's your party. Sometimes the guests might have conversations you find annoying.
I can't think of any other way to keep guests, talking among themselves, from speaking about a topic you don't like other than spelling it out in black and white what is acceptable and what isn't.
This forum has rules.
Most abide by them well.
If you feel more rules are needed..so be it.
It's your party.
I think some might go elsewhere if more rules are added.
I think some new comers will be turned off.
But, if you don't want these people at the party anyway....?
Sounds like some people would be happy not to have to look away from posts they don't like.
It's your call.
Just let us know the rules.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Friends call me Pac on January 23, 2011, 01:21:00 AM
Post by: Friends call me Pac on January 23, 2011, 01:21:00 AM
Everything I know about traditional archery I have learned on this site over the last 3 years. Looking for an edge and creating an edge were basically one and the same to me since I was just starting and had no idea of what to do.
3 years ago when I 1st started my trad journey the whole process was techie to me. I knew zero about the subject and I had nobody to help me. Then I found TG. What a wonderful place full of people willing to help me with trad.
Learning that the point of impact could be controlled by spine and then learning how to go about it is an example of "techie" to me back then.
What I consider techie then and techie today are two different things. But would a new person that knows nothing about trad know the difference? I sure would not have know the difference 3 years ago. I can see how nitpicking or it must be done this way could really make things confusing for a newbie. I can also see how it could ruffle feathers with experienced archers as well.
TG is the only site that I visit daily. I'd hate to see it become a argueing place. Do what you have to do Terry.
3 years ago when I 1st started my trad journey the whole process was techie to me. I knew zero about the subject and I had nobody to help me. Then I found TG. What a wonderful place full of people willing to help me with trad.
Learning that the point of impact could be controlled by spine and then learning how to go about it is an example of "techie" to me back then.
What I consider techie then and techie today are two different things. But would a new person that knows nothing about trad know the difference? I sure would not have know the difference 3 years ago. I can see how nitpicking or it must be done this way could really make things confusing for a newbie. I can also see how it could ruffle feathers with experienced archers as well.
TG is the only site that I visit daily. I'd hate to see it become a argueing place. Do what you have to do Terry.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: nc recurveman on January 23, 2011, 01:51:00 AM
Post by: nc recurveman on January 23, 2011, 01:51:00 AM
to each thier own I guess, for me I took to trad archery to enjoy the simplicity of it ...... just a stick and a string. I wanted to break free of all the complex things that got in the way of enjoying the hunt.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: lunchbucket on January 23, 2011, 04:48:00 AM
Post by: lunchbucket on January 23, 2011, 04:48:00 AM
Thank you Terry for posting what you did.I know I am a new member here although I have been reading on this forum a couple of years now.In reguards to what you stated I could not agree more thats the main reason I joined Trad Gang.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: on January 23, 2011, 05:06:00 AM
Post by: on January 23, 2011, 05:06:00 AM
Roy (BOWILD) said:
"So, I guess if some of us are misbehave'n I'd like to know exactly how, cause if I am, I can fix me."
Chris (SEMO_HUNTER) said:
"I first came here looking for advice on how to improve my shooting ability. I stayed because of the enormous base of traditional knowledge here, the friendly atmosphere, and the friendships that I have made here. I guess what I'm really trying to say is......we all love traditional archery for the simplicity of it. And helping out the new guys (Like Me) with their redundant questions, and constant pestering is the only way to ensure the traditional fire continues to burn."
I seriously doubt you guys are in trouble there...I have been on the same threads with you both and found you input and general attitude was in line with Terry's original post and the spirit of TG.
Fwiw, since I have been back, it has been a refreshing and satisfying experience to see how TG has matured. I can remember back years ago where it was not that way...but was what we had and we all loved it.
Like you two, I have been asking a lot of questions about the hill bows concerning all of the aspects I did not know before. Now, just two days later Rob and the gang there buried my ignorance in honest answers based on years of their experience. Because of their patience, I can now reach back into the past and learn how to love the hill-style longbow again.
TG has more than just "morphed" over the years, it has slowly and clearly matured to maintain the traditional aspect of archery, including the hunt. This did not happen by accident but by the diligence of many eyes here.
So far I have had one of my posts edited and one thread I started was "moved" to the dark hole of oblivion. The reasoning was simple and, when explained to me, was a good choice by the moderators. The system works well! This place rocks! :thumbsup:
A side note: I will also agree with something Shedrock said:
"I feel a website like this is for asking questions. Why not help the newbies out?
Some posts get closed right away, while others stay open. I feel for the newbies."
IMO we shouldtake care of everybody we can so they can become competent torch bearers for the generations coming after them. Seems to me that we, in the general membership can and should take on the bulk of the responsibility for keeping TG what it is. We can help keep this place clean and healthy without dumping a heavy burden on the moderators. With the current membership nearing 30,000, just think of what things could be like in five years!!
"So, I guess if some of us are misbehave'n I'd like to know exactly how, cause if I am, I can fix me."
Chris (SEMO_HUNTER) said:
"I first came here looking for advice on how to improve my shooting ability. I stayed because of the enormous base of traditional knowledge here, the friendly atmosphere, and the friendships that I have made here. I guess what I'm really trying to say is......we all love traditional archery for the simplicity of it. And helping out the new guys (Like Me) with their redundant questions, and constant pestering is the only way to ensure the traditional fire continues to burn."
I seriously doubt you guys are in trouble there...I have been on the same threads with you both and found you input and general attitude was in line with Terry's original post and the spirit of TG.
Fwiw, since I have been back, it has been a refreshing and satisfying experience to see how TG has matured. I can remember back years ago where it was not that way...but was what we had and we all loved it.
Like you two, I have been asking a lot of questions about the hill bows concerning all of the aspects I did not know before. Now, just two days later Rob and the gang there buried my ignorance in honest answers based on years of their experience. Because of their patience, I can now reach back into the past and learn how to love the hill-style longbow again.
TG has more than just "morphed" over the years, it has slowly and clearly matured to maintain the traditional aspect of archery, including the hunt. This did not happen by accident but by the diligence of many eyes here.
So far I have had one of my posts edited and one thread I started was "moved" to the dark hole of oblivion. The reasoning was simple and, when explained to me, was a good choice by the moderators. The system works well! This place rocks! :thumbsup:
A side note: I will also agree with something Shedrock said:
"I feel a website like this is for asking questions. Why not help the newbies out?
Some posts get closed right away, while others stay open. I feel for the newbies."
IMO we shouldtake care of everybody we can so they can become competent torch bearers for the generations coming after them. Seems to me that we, in the general membership can and should take on the bulk of the responsibility for keeping TG what it is. We can help keep this place clean and healthy without dumping a heavy burden on the moderators. With the current membership nearing 30,000, just think of what things could be like in five years!!
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: GRINCH on January 23, 2011, 05:12:00 AM
Post by: GRINCH on January 23, 2011, 05:12:00 AM
Terry I totally agree,I've learned alot from this site and even made a few friends.I have always been of the belief that if my arrows are properly tuned to my bow and my aim was right that is all thats needed for me to hit my target, what I've learned from here is how to overcome the variables that we encounter when hunting.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: frassettor on January 23, 2011, 06:27:00 AM
Post by: frassettor on January 23, 2011, 06:27:00 AM
QuoteOriginally posted by A. Kinslow:Well said :thumbsup:
You ask most of us and we've all had a thread pulled. Its nothing personal, just necessary pruning to keep the tree growing in the right direction. [/QB]
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: GraniteStater on January 23, 2011, 06:29:00 AM
Post by: GraniteStater on January 23, 2011, 06:29:00 AM
Wow well put, feels just like a captain re-directing a ship. Sometimes we all need a mental re-adjustment, myself included. Especially as a newer hunter.
Thanks for writing this, I appreciate it.
Thanks for writing this, I appreciate it.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Cottonwood on January 23, 2011, 07:09:00 AM
Post by: Cottonwood on January 23, 2011, 07:09:00 AM
Thanks Terry, as I agree with the K.I.S. method myself, and shy away from all the gadget talk like you say.... the way of the compound.
Again Thanks :thumbsup:
Again Thanks :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Guru on January 23, 2011, 07:36:00 AM
Post by: Guru on January 23, 2011, 07:36:00 AM
I'm sure glad some of you understand...you guys "get it". Thank you Andrew and the others, you know who you are...
For some of you others that think we don't "want to help the newbies"...I'm afraid you'll just never "get it", and that's a shame...
For some of you others that think we don't "want to help the newbies"...I'm afraid you'll just never "get it", and that's a shame...
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Guru on January 23, 2011, 07:42:00 AM
Post by: Guru on January 23, 2011, 07:42:00 AM
QuoteOriginally posted by A. Kinslow:Again, Thank you Andrew :thumbsup:
Quote--Form discussionsI think the mods agree that these are all good topics. The stuff that gets out of hand are redundant threads on the effectiveness of 36% FOC vs 35% FOC arrows, or the latest double bevel/single bevel argument, or the latest gadget for blood trailing instead of basic woodsmanship. [/b]
--How to tune
--How to make arrows
--Give aways
--Welcomes & Condolences
--Hunt reports
--Questions about hunting
--Quivers, gloves, tabs
--Pictures of bows
--Why shoot a longbow or a recurve
--How to scout
--How to blood trail
--How to make good on shots at game
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Guru on January 23, 2011, 07:45:00 AM
Post by: Guru on January 23, 2011, 07:45:00 AM
QuoteOriginally posted by Friends call me Pac:Perfect example of why this thread was created :thumbsup:
What I consider techie then and techie today are two different things. But would a new person that knows nothing about trad know the difference? I sure would not have know the difference 3 years ago.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: ishoot4thrills on January 23, 2011, 08:25:00 AM
Post by: ishoot4thrills on January 23, 2011, 08:25:00 AM
QuoteOriginally posted by COLongbow:Same here.
I have to admit I've run afoul of the mods a time or two..
But there's no better place on the 'net for Trad.
This place exists thanks to the mods!
Rob, please accept my apologies for past sins.
I start and finish my day with TG!
Sometimes we just need a little of this: :knothead: , to get to this: :campfire: .
Long live Tradgang!
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Gray Buffalo on January 23, 2011, 08:52:00 AM
Post by: Gray Buffalo on January 23, 2011, 08:52:00 AM
I feel some people bring a compound mentality with them when coming back or starting traditional archery. A machine will take some tinkering to keep it working well. The traditional side is more a commonsense thing. Arrow flit and sharp Brodhead's are the main concerns.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: lpcjon2 on January 23, 2011, 09:03:00 AM
Post by: lpcjon2 on January 23, 2011, 09:03:00 AM
I like to keep it simple,but from time to time I have gotten a curiosity with fascination in techy stuff and ask a few ?'s and tried a thing or two but always found the simplest method of trad to be the best and most effective.It's good to explore and try new things but it's better to be reminded of what Trad is really about and get grounded again. With so many members from all over with so much experience. I think we all under-utilize what we have at our fingertips.Thanks for the reality check. :campfire:
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: J-dog on January 23, 2011, 09:04:00 AM
Post by: J-dog on January 23, 2011, 09:04:00 AM
I tell you I am addicted to the site, period. I know about the whole BHd thing - singe bevels and double bevels gets old. I like what Ashby writes and incorporate some of the stuff into my arrows, not "whole hog" as one would say but a little. E Donnel Thomas stated one time "we should worry less with what tips our arrows rather worry about where we place the arrow." One should not let all that be the gospel on your setup is all. Or at least try seach button first.
Other threads that get me is the hunt my way or your unethical threads. Not going there but I know I let myself get caught up in one and in getting caught up I started another vengence threas just to fire back at the "your unethical camp". I promptly contacted Admin and explained what I did, apologized, and asked they delete it, it was wrong, not what Tradgang is.
My Mom bought my first Schafer silvertip for me. When I got it I took the arrows (2216s) and BHds off my tech bow and started shooting and shooting well no sweating over proper arrows and all. I had all the latest greatest back then, now all that stuff has faded. I have a pack I still use to carry neccesities such as rope, compass, maps and all but the biggest tech thing I got is my GPS and I like it!. I did try smokey's lure this yr-first time in yrs I carried lure.
I see that I started out hunting in my youth with really nothing but my weapon, clothes on my back, and a biscuit shoved in my pocket. I progressed into watching hunting shows and thinking I need all that to kill, then I progressed further into seeing you do not need all that hype, I was killing long before a hunting show and I whittled down the mess I carry. Little more than I carried in my youth but no Wal Mart junk.
Tradgang is a great place - gotta love it - well done Admin.
Jason
Other threads that get me is the hunt my way or your unethical threads. Not going there but I know I let myself get caught up in one and in getting caught up I started another vengence threas just to fire back at the "your unethical camp". I promptly contacted Admin and explained what I did, apologized, and asked they delete it, it was wrong, not what Tradgang is.
My Mom bought my first Schafer silvertip for me. When I got it I took the arrows (2216s) and BHds off my tech bow and started shooting and shooting well no sweating over proper arrows and all. I had all the latest greatest back then, now all that stuff has faded. I have a pack I still use to carry neccesities such as rope, compass, maps and all but the biggest tech thing I got is my GPS and I like it!. I did try smokey's lure this yr-first time in yrs I carried lure.
I see that I started out hunting in my youth with really nothing but my weapon, clothes on my back, and a biscuit shoved in my pocket. I progressed into watching hunting shows and thinking I need all that to kill, then I progressed further into seeing you do not need all that hype, I was killing long before a hunting show and I whittled down the mess I carry. Little more than I carried in my youth but no Wal Mart junk.
Tradgang is a great place - gotta love it - well done Admin.
Jason
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: michigan bill on January 23, 2011, 09:14:00 AM
Post by: michigan bill on January 23, 2011, 09:14:00 AM
This is, by far, the best traditional archery site going. Whatever site is next is a distant second.
I truly do appreciate the work that the moderators put in to keep it Number 1.
Thank you all!
Bill
I truly do appreciate the work that the moderators put in to keep it Number 1.
Thank you all!
Bill
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Swamp Yankee on January 23, 2011, 09:24:00 AM
Post by: Swamp Yankee on January 23, 2011, 09:24:00 AM
Agreed for the most part.
A well tuned stick and string is all that's needed in the way of hardware. Differnences in hardware used is really insignificant compared to the level of skill needed to make a close ethical shot happen.
That said, tuning whatever you are shooting is important and I'd hate to see those discussions removed.
A well tuned stick and string is all that's needed in the way of hardware. Differnences in hardware used is really insignificant compared to the level of skill needed to make a close ethical shot happen.
That said, tuning whatever you are shooting is important and I'd hate to see those discussions removed.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: chuckbow on January 23, 2011, 09:56:00 AM
Post by: chuckbow on January 23, 2011, 09:56:00 AM
Terry, well said; i also am a true blood fanatic of this site and its people, although we dont all ,always agree,i still feel like part of the family and have nothing but respect for Tradgangers. I (since joinig here) have taken my largest whitail ever!, and done better than i ever dreamed in traditional 3d shoots,i would atribute this new found success,in a big way to this site! ive learned in a few years more than i could learn myself in the past 25 years of trying , and a lot of things were small but super helpfull,thanks to everyone who makes this site possible,i also met a guy (chris surtees)through this site, along with alot of other people,cris and i spoke several times before my texas hunt ,(my biggest buck ever)and he gave me some practice points wich he second day mailed me,(for free)JUST SO THEY WOULD GET TO ME BEFORE MY TRIP, i can barley get through a thread about him and his family without breaking down in tears,and cant express enough my condolencses to his family.this site is full of great people, and im proud to be part of it thanks again , chuck cranford! <><
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Terry Green on January 23, 2011, 10:06:00 AM
Post by: Terry Green on January 23, 2011, 10:06:00 AM
Thanks Curt and all for bearing with us.....it was determined last year that some folk didn't 'get' my message....and a few still don't. We are all about helping newbie's....if you've missed that, you really haven't been hanging around here.
We have some other issues also....the constant barrage of spam......some folks like to make posts just to stir things up....and that was what caused Curt to TTT this thread. Most of the threads were removed, and a couple locked. (not all were spam but got caught up in the clean up) Many of them most of you all didn't even see.
I'm also going to make a post listing some of the off topics we've had as of late just to give you all an idea of what all kinds of stuff we get posted on here.
We have some other issues also....the constant barrage of spam......some folks like to make posts just to stir things up....and that was what caused Curt to TTT this thread. Most of the threads were removed, and a couple locked. (not all were spam but got caught up in the clean up) Many of them most of you all didn't even see.
I'm also going to make a post listing some of the off topics we've had as of late just to give you all an idea of what all kinds of stuff we get posted on here.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: on January 23, 2011, 10:15:00 AM
Post by: on January 23, 2011, 10:15:00 AM
Terry, the list is a great idea! That should put the fire out..
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Zradix on January 23, 2011, 10:54:00 AM
Post by: Zradix on January 23, 2011, 10:54:00 AM
QuoteOriginally posted by Terry Green:That is a great idea.
I'm also going to make a post listing some of the off topics we've had as of late just to give you all an idea of what all kinds of stuff we get posted on here.
The mods do such a good job of keeping things on track here the others don't get a chance to see what is considered "off topic"
It's hard to tell sometimes when posting in the grey area if you're treading to close to the black, if you know what I mean.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: magnus on January 23, 2011, 10:57:00 AM
Post by: magnus on January 23, 2011, 10:57:00 AM
This is great timing. I think this time of year (like Curt said) people's minds start to wander. I've been guilty of that. I also agree that one should focus more on their own abilities or lack thereof to get more proficient with the equipment they chose and their woodsman ship. I'd rather see how close I can get to a deer rather than how far away I can shoot it.
One way to help newbies is to remind them keep it simple. JMHO.
One way to help newbies is to remind them keep it simple. JMHO.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: SEMO_HUNTER on January 23, 2011, 11:03:00 AM
Post by: SEMO_HUNTER on January 23, 2011, 11:03:00 AM
I agree on the List Terry, that would help clarify alot of issues and help the noobs like myself know what's ok and what isn't.
If it weren't for being directed to this site by an aquaintance of mine, I wouldn't be at the level I am now. I also would have never dreamed of making my own self bows from Osage without TG, but I'm now about 5 bows into it.
Lots of great people, and great information here on TG, and I feel I'm better because of it. I honestly do not go an entire day without checking in here at least once. Except when I'm away from my computer, and then it's the first thing I do when I get home.
If it weren't for being directed to this site by an aquaintance of mine, I wouldn't be at the level I am now. I also would have never dreamed of making my own self bows from Osage without TG, but I'm now about 5 bows into it.
Lots of great people, and great information here on TG, and I feel I'm better because of it. I honestly do not go an entire day without checking in here at least once. Except when I'm away from my computer, and then it's the first thing I do when I get home.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Zradix on January 23, 2011, 11:04:00 AM
Post by: Zradix on January 23, 2011, 11:04:00 AM
QuoteOriginally posted by Guru:Brother..To say this site isn't here for the new blood is just laughable.
....For some of you others that think we don't "want to help the newbies"...I'm afraid you'll just never "get it", and that's a shame...
I'm a newb. I've only been going trad for a few years....still much to learn.
No better place to come for advice than here.
So many minds connected with a single, fairly unique passion in common is just plain neat.
This site is ALL about learning.
Being so it takes a while for a new person just to learn what Tradgang is all about...and how things are conducted here.
I'll tell you what..I'm embarrassed about a few of my first posts..jeesh.
Took me a while to "Get it"
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Terry Green on January 23, 2011, 11:05:00 AM
Post by: Terry Green on January 23, 2011, 11:05:00 AM
Here's a link that's at the Bottom of Rob DiStefano's post....its in his signature. It is targeted directly at newbies...and is a good starting point.
Newbie Info Click Here (http://www.tradgang.com/docs/newbies.html)
We just hate to see newbies come here and get all caught up in the 'static' when they should be immersed in the basics of good shooting form, accuracy, good arrow flight, matched equipment, properly sharpened heads, and properly fletched arrows.....NONE of which are borderline that will at some point come back to haunt them due to many hunting variables.....weather conditions, shooting positions, event anxiety, uneven terrain, etc....
Newbie Info Click Here (http://www.tradgang.com/docs/newbies.html)
We just hate to see newbies come here and get all caught up in the 'static' when they should be immersed in the basics of good shooting form, accuracy, good arrow flight, matched equipment, properly sharpened heads, and properly fletched arrows.....NONE of which are borderline that will at some point come back to haunt them due to many hunting variables.....weather conditions, shooting positions, event anxiety, uneven terrain, etc....
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: michigan bill on January 23, 2011, 11:40:00 AM
Post by: michigan bill on January 23, 2011, 11:40:00 AM
Gents, the "brace height" post below was one of the most interesting and informative posts I have seen on TradGang. I consider it traditional and bow hunting related in every sense of the word since the gentleman used a 60# 1958 Bear recurve and broadheads to do his testing. I, for one, really enjoy posts like this one.
Am I correct in thinking this is a proper post in PowWow?
Bill
*************************************************
posted November 17, 2010 12:04 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Interesting question ... Since I have a draw board, bow scale, string jig, and chronograph, I decided to test the theories. Here is what I got:
1958 Bear KS 60@28, DL 28¼", 618 grain arrow.
BH: 6¾"
DW@28¼ = 61.0 lbs
Powerstroke = 19.75"
5-shot avg. speed = 166 fps
BH: 8"
DW@28¼" = 62.3 lbs
Powerstroke = 18.5"
5-shot avg. speed = 166 fps
From this I conclude that increasing BH requires a slightly stiffer spine because the arrow is accelerated to the same speed in a shorter distance, ie. more G-force.
This might be peculiar to the bow, but that's how it plays out for my setup.
--------------------
1958 Bear Kodiak Special 60#@28"
28.75" BOP Legacy 2018, 19%FOC
Silver Flame Broadheads
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Am I correct in thinking this is a proper post in PowWow?
Bill
*************************************************
posted November 17, 2010 12:04 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Interesting question ... Since I have a draw board, bow scale, string jig, and chronograph, I decided to test the theories. Here is what I got:
1958 Bear KS 60@28, DL 28¼", 618 grain arrow.
BH: 6¾"
DW@28¼ = 61.0 lbs
Powerstroke = 19.75"
5-shot avg. speed = 166 fps
BH: 8"
DW@28¼" = 62.3 lbs
Powerstroke = 18.5"
5-shot avg. speed = 166 fps
From this I conclude that increasing BH requires a slightly stiffer spine because the arrow is accelerated to the same speed in a shorter distance, ie. more G-force.
This might be peculiar to the bow, but that's how it plays out for my setup.
--------------------
1958 Bear Kodiak Special 60#@28"
28.75" BOP Legacy 2018, 19%FOC
Silver Flame Broadheads
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Terry Green on January 23, 2011, 11:44:00 AM
Post by: Terry Green on January 23, 2011, 11:44:00 AM
Nothing wrong with that post at all.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Huntschool on January 23, 2011, 11:46:00 AM
Post by: Huntschool on January 23, 2011, 11:46:00 AM
Terry, et al:
First, I think it was prudent of Guru to bring this thread back up. I have my own reasons for that opinion. I assure everyone they are not snobbish or personally directed.
I suspect that those of us who are over or close to the age of 60 can recall when a person needed a physically present mentor to get started. That, thanks to the Internet has all changed and done so in a very short time frame. We are now a "global" community in the information age. That's nice but along with this "easy access" to information comes a burden of levels of that information. We must be cautious not to overlook those simple questions. Am I concerned about the new folks... yep. Sometimes a new person is so "eat up" with the desire to gain new information that they do not see the "tools" (read search in this case) that are available on a site. I am sometimes as guilty of this as anyone.
This site has, by my appraisal, done more for our "sport" than any I have visited. Your supervision as well as your appointed mods. and admin folks have done their best to keep this site clean and friendly. That is great stuff.
I do, however, think we are in a similar information quest to every other activity niche out there. As such, people are interested in that "new information" whether it is equipment, applicable information, or just gathering together albeit the Solona Ranch hunt etc. It is to this end that one must take care not to employ the sites empowerment to seemingly randomly close or remove threads. I, frankly, think this judicious application has been done to an excellent degree. I have had one post pulled years ago and have, as you know, asked you about the removal of another here recently. All in all it has been great.
I think the "list" idea is great.
Lets move on. I am sure everyone here will follow the guidelines. Again, Great Site !!!!!!
First, I think it was prudent of Guru to bring this thread back up. I have my own reasons for that opinion. I assure everyone they are not snobbish or personally directed.
I suspect that those of us who are over or close to the age of 60 can recall when a person needed a physically present mentor to get started. That, thanks to the Internet has all changed and done so in a very short time frame. We are now a "global" community in the information age. That's nice but along with this "easy access" to information comes a burden of levels of that information. We must be cautious not to overlook those simple questions. Am I concerned about the new folks... yep. Sometimes a new person is so "eat up" with the desire to gain new information that they do not see the "tools" (read search in this case) that are available on a site. I am sometimes as guilty of this as anyone.
This site has, by my appraisal, done more for our "sport" than any I have visited. Your supervision as well as your appointed mods. and admin folks have done their best to keep this site clean and friendly. That is great stuff.
I do, however, think we are in a similar information quest to every other activity niche out there. As such, people are interested in that "new information" whether it is equipment, applicable information, or just gathering together albeit the Solona Ranch hunt etc. It is to this end that one must take care not to employ the sites empowerment to seemingly randomly close or remove threads. I, frankly, think this judicious application has been done to an excellent degree. I have had one post pulled years ago and have, as you know, asked you about the removal of another here recently. All in all it has been great.
I think the "list" idea is great.
Lets move on. I am sure everyone here will follow the guidelines. Again, Great Site !!!!!!
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Ghost Dog on January 24, 2011, 11:06:00 AM
Post by: Ghost Dog on January 24, 2011, 11:06:00 AM
I know a guy who makes his own 45# selfbows, planes his own arrows, shoots homemade trade points, and is a great and successful hunter. Talk about self reliance.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: twostrings on January 24, 2011, 11:40:00 AM
Post by: twostrings on January 24, 2011, 11:40:00 AM
I love it Terry. Thanks.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Eugene Slagle on January 24, 2011, 11:41:00 AM
Post by: Eugene Slagle on January 24, 2011, 11:41:00 AM
I'm by no means a pro at this having returned to shooting bare bow recurve or traditional recurve for 2 years now I am working from memory on how to aim & shoot from 20+ years from being with it & tuning by help from a old copy of the Easton Tuning Guide & ofcorse help from many here & some local guys-n-gals that is willing to give me a hand.
I guess I'm a realist & take any information with a grain of salt, like the EFOC & UFOC stuff, I use what I knew worked back when I started & worried more on how my arrow flew by my release instead of all the other stuff as long as the weight was more than 14% forward & I had a good strong & sharp broadhead it should do it's job as long as I did my part & the other stuff well some is just personal experience that may or may not work for everyone.
I post on some threads that what worked for me but again it is a personal thing & mileage may vary from shooter to shooter.
I hope I haven't steered this thread with my words, if it has then by all means delete them please.
I guess I'm a realist & take any information with a grain of salt, like the EFOC & UFOC stuff, I use what I knew worked back when I started & worried more on how my arrow flew by my release instead of all the other stuff as long as the weight was more than 14% forward & I had a good strong & sharp broadhead it should do it's job as long as I did my part & the other stuff well some is just personal experience that may or may not work for everyone.
I post on some threads that what worked for me but again it is a personal thing & mileage may vary from shooter to shooter.
I hope I haven't steered this thread with my words, if it has then by all means delete them please.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Terry Green on February 13, 2012, 08:45:00 PM
Post by: Terry Green on February 13, 2012, 08:45:00 PM
:campfire:
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: lpcjon2 on February 13, 2012, 08:50:00 PM
Post by: lpcjon2 on February 13, 2012, 08:50:00 PM
Someone just hit the refresh thread. :thumbsup: :campfire:
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Bowwild on February 13, 2012, 09:18:00 PM
Post by: Bowwild on February 13, 2012, 09:18:00 PM
I'm not sure what triggered this discussion. Frankly, when I read these kinds of things I always feel like I'm outside the clique. But I only read three pages of it. I've been here for some time although inactive a few years after I originally joined.
I may be an offender of Admin's desire for the site? Of course there are all kinds of posts on Pow Wow. How to hunt, understanding equipment, improving form, solving problems, and a bit of hero worship. Of course bow pics and discussions about design are very popular and for the past couple of years and maybe for another few months, I've been and will be interested in those threads.
Personally, I've been hunting for a very long time and most of that time with bows. There are many reasons why folks hunt and the enjoyment they get from hunting varies.
While the hunt and woodsmanship are most important to me, I get a HUGE kick out of the equipment. I want to know my equipment inside and out. I am constantly tinkering and disecting..that's part of the joy of the archery displine for me. I CHOOSE to make the equipment side of things a bit more intense and analytical because I get a kick out of it, not because I'm trying to save a step or increase the odds in my favor.
I've learned a few things here. I've also debunked a few things that some folks think are true -- I don't point those things out though.
I don't know why, with 35,000+ members we can't, as long as we follow the rules, post what we're interested in. If I don't want to read a post or comment, I don't. There are certain types of posts on this site that I avoid like the plaque, but thankfully, I have that option.
I'd sure like to know when/if I'm offending Trad Gang sensibilities. I know it's not a democracy, that's the beauty of a site like this. It belongs to the folks who started it, not me. If I find the site isn't for my kind, I can live with that.
I may be an offender of Admin's desire for the site? Of course there are all kinds of posts on Pow Wow. How to hunt, understanding equipment, improving form, solving problems, and a bit of hero worship. Of course bow pics and discussions about design are very popular and for the past couple of years and maybe for another few months, I've been and will be interested in those threads.
Personally, I've been hunting for a very long time and most of that time with bows. There are many reasons why folks hunt and the enjoyment they get from hunting varies.
While the hunt and woodsmanship are most important to me, I get a HUGE kick out of the equipment. I want to know my equipment inside and out. I am constantly tinkering and disecting..that's part of the joy of the archery displine for me. I CHOOSE to make the equipment side of things a bit more intense and analytical because I get a kick out of it, not because I'm trying to save a step or increase the odds in my favor.
I've learned a few things here. I've also debunked a few things that some folks think are true -- I don't point those things out though.
I don't know why, with 35,000+ members we can't, as long as we follow the rules, post what we're interested in. If I don't want to read a post or comment, I don't. There are certain types of posts on this site that I avoid like the plaque, but thankfully, I have that option.
I'd sure like to know when/if I'm offending Trad Gang sensibilities. I know it's not a democracy, that's the beauty of a site like this. It belongs to the folks who started it, not me. If I find the site isn't for my kind, I can live with that.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: charles m on February 13, 2012, 09:21:00 PM
Post by: charles m on February 13, 2012, 09:21:00 PM
Thanks. I saw recently where someone answered a question that was asked, and they were immediately accosted with several paragraphs that was dissing the guy answering the question. Then someone else came out of his hole and piled on. Bet you can figure it out. Seems like there is a lot of fuss over nothing, and time of nothingness would be better spent by folks learning to shoot better than worrying over picking flies out of poop. Most of these folks probably couldn't shoot their way out of a barn from the inside.
Some folks are more interested in furthering someone's agenda than anything else. Self promotion seems to be so important to some to the degree that they never post on any thread except ones that promote themselves, and they NEVER congratulate anyone on any stories of success. They only show up when it benefits them. Its so obvious to many, but oblivious to others.
Some folks are more interested in furthering someone's agenda than anything else. Self promotion seems to be so important to some to the degree that they never post on any thread except ones that promote themselves, and they NEVER congratulate anyone on any stories of success. They only show up when it benefits them. Its so obvious to many, but oblivious to others.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Bowwild on February 13, 2012, 09:23:00 PM
Post by: Bowwild on February 13, 2012, 09:23:00 PM
Oh, I like it here as you can tell from my posts. I hope I can stay even though I prefer bows with curved limb tips and fancy wood.
As far as I know, I've never had a post deleted except when I asked questions about a certain bow made in the UK.
As far as I know, I've never had a post deleted except when I asked questions about a certain bow made in the UK.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: lpcjon2 on February 13, 2012, 09:36:00 PM
Post by: lpcjon2 on February 13, 2012, 09:36:00 PM
Roy,
IMHO its more about the basic principles of hunting you and a bow type topics are missing and being replaced with how high speed can this stick and shaft get it done for me.
As Terry mentioned the art of woodsman ship topics have slowly dwindled and have been replaced with commercially made products that compensate for woodsman ship type threads are to abundant. The only way to be a better hunter is to work on yourself, and not rely on high speed gear to do it for ya.
Lets get back to the basics of hunting and being a hunter is what I think its about.JMHO
IMHO its more about the basic principles of hunting you and a bow type topics are missing and being replaced with how high speed can this stick and shaft get it done for me.
As Terry mentioned the art of woodsman ship topics have slowly dwindled and have been replaced with commercially made products that compensate for woodsman ship type threads are to abundant. The only way to be a better hunter is to work on yourself, and not rely on high speed gear to do it for ya.
Lets get back to the basics of hunting and being a hunter is what I think its about.JMHO
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Richie on February 13, 2012, 09:47:00 PM
Post by: Richie on February 13, 2012, 09:47:00 PM
Great post Terry!!!!
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: battman on February 13, 2012, 09:54:00 PM
Post by: battman on February 13, 2012, 09:54:00 PM
Thats exactly why I lost interest in bow hunting and finally made the switch to traditional gear.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: JamesKerr on February 13, 2012, 10:25:00 PM
Post by: JamesKerr on February 13, 2012, 10:25:00 PM
Well said Terry! I feel that equipment questions are an important thing to ask but not to the point of saying that one thing is better than another. I would love to see more posting about the way people hunt and their respect for their quarry. I feel that Tradgang is the best bowhunting site out there period and the willingness of people on here to help each other is what makes this site what it is. A big Thank You to all the moderators and admin of this site for keeping it based on traditional bowhunting! :clapper: :clapper:
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Walt Francis on February 13, 2012, 10:32:00 PM
Post by: Walt Francis on February 13, 2012, 10:32:00 PM
Thanks Curt, I was thinking a couple of weeks back it was getting this time again.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Looper on February 13, 2012, 10:32:00 PM
Post by: Looper on February 13, 2012, 10:32:00 PM
I have to say, I don't see what the big deal is. You can't honestly expect everyone to be on the same page regarding experience or maturity or even interest. This place has thousands of members, from all walks of life, covering all sorts of personality types and interests. What one fellow is going to find interesting, another will find boring. Some might ask questions to satisfy a curiosity, others might ask because they are struggling to find the setup.
There are also a lot of members here, I'm sure, that aren't hunters, or don't have the opportunities to hunt as much as they want. There are also guys that are, or want to be, dedicated target shooters. Should their questions go unanswered, or ignored?
Honestly, I think a lot of the technical questions are partially a result of folks coming over from the compound world, were technical details are of the utmost importance. There is a way to gently steer the discussions past the details, but it will be an ongoing, never ending process. You're just experiencing the very nature of a large, public forum.
There are also a lot of members here, I'm sure, that aren't hunters, or don't have the opportunities to hunt as much as they want. There are also guys that are, or want to be, dedicated target shooters. Should their questions go unanswered, or ignored?
Honestly, I think a lot of the technical questions are partially a result of folks coming over from the compound world, were technical details are of the utmost importance. There is a way to gently steer the discussions past the details, but it will be an ongoing, never ending process. You're just experiencing the very nature of a large, public forum.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: turkey522 on February 13, 2012, 10:34:00 PM
Post by: turkey522 on February 13, 2012, 10:34:00 PM
:clapper:
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: ron w on February 13, 2012, 10:50:00 PM
Post by: ron w on February 13, 2012, 10:50:00 PM
:clapper: Good to see this again......it would help sometimes if folks would do a search before asking some questions. A lot of good info here and some real entertaining tales.......be a shame to have it go away at some point!
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Jeff Strubberg on February 13, 2012, 10:59:00 PM
Post by: Jeff Strubberg on February 13, 2012, 10:59:00 PM
I know that the mods don't share my view on this, but IMHO the best way to avoid spending a lot of time and money on the technical stuff is to talk it out and learn from others mistakes.
The other option is to poke and hope. I think putting up with some boring tech talk is worth it to avoid that.
But this ain't my campfire, and I hope Terry and the mods will say something if I stray across the line.
The other option is to poke and hope. I think putting up with some boring tech talk is worth it to avoid that.
But this ain't my campfire, and I hope Terry and the mods will say something if I stray across the line.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: jsweka on February 13, 2012, 11:44:00 PM
Post by: jsweka on February 13, 2012, 11:44:00 PM
I have to think, deal with technology, and do enough mathematical modeling at work. I don't need it in my time off. I've been noticing lately that I've been passing up a lot of threads because they sound too techy for me.
The search function works wonders if you have a specific question. Chances are somebody else has had the same question.
The search function works wonders if you have a specific question. Chances are somebody else has had the same question.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Ragnarok Forge on February 14, 2012, 12:55:00 AM
Post by: Ragnarok Forge on February 14, 2012, 12:55:00 AM
Being a knowledge driven individual I enjoy the tech threads when they are posted by all parties in a friendly chat or friendly debate format. I have to agree with Terry that some folks seem to have an agenda and want everyone else to join their team. That is simply not what Trad is about. There really is no right or wrong way to do Trad. For you there is just your way.
I think a tech section would be a good idea. Those of us who like to could post there and not annoy the non-tech guys. The prior poster hit the nail on the head for me. He said that he is not reading certain threads that seem to be to tech driven. I think that is an excellent choice. I personally avoid threads that are not of interest to me and do not post on many threads that I have an opposing opinion about. Once upon a time my momma told me that if I have nothing good to say I should not say anything at all. I try and remember that every time I post.
I have seen a lot of positive tech threads go crosswise when an anti tech person throws their sentiments in. That is just as destructive to positive discussion as a tech focused guy throwing his voice into a non-tech thread when it is not needed.
Terry,
I do not envy you the job you have and this is your back yard. You set the rules, I will do my best to follow them. Trad Gang is the best site on the web and you do a great job of keeping it focused where it needs to be.
I think a tech section would be a good idea. Those of us who like to could post there and not annoy the non-tech guys. The prior poster hit the nail on the head for me. He said that he is not reading certain threads that seem to be to tech driven. I think that is an excellent choice. I personally avoid threads that are not of interest to me and do not post on many threads that I have an opposing opinion about. Once upon a time my momma told me that if I have nothing good to say I should not say anything at all. I try and remember that every time I post.
I have seen a lot of positive tech threads go crosswise when an anti tech person throws their sentiments in. That is just as destructive to positive discussion as a tech focused guy throwing his voice into a non-tech thread when it is not needed.
Terry,
I do not envy you the job you have and this is your back yard. You set the rules, I will do my best to follow them. Trad Gang is the best site on the web and you do a great job of keeping it focused where it needs to be.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Hopewell Tom on February 14, 2012, 06:11:00 AM
Post by: Hopewell Tom on February 14, 2012, 06:11:00 AM
Thanks for this. That's how I feel. I need the how-to-hunt help. I figure there'll always be the opportunity to "upgrade" the equipment, form, etc. particularly on the Shooters Forum.
I'm going to get some photos up on my property and ask this vast knowledge base for help.
Excellent thread.
I'm going to get some photos up on my property and ask this vast knowledge base for help.
Excellent thread.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Gator1 on February 14, 2012, 07:35:00 AM
Post by: Gator1 on February 14, 2012, 07:35:00 AM
I think as someone mentioned a Tech Section, if possible is a good idea.
To discuss Arrow tuning, shaft choices etc...
i'm in agreement, and I read the posts that interest me. Nothing wrong with Carbon shafts, but since I've joined here it is somewhat taking me back to wheelie days. Shaft Material EFOC, carbon shaft material.
I'm not trying to bash new materials personal choices. But I remember the good old days of shooting aluminum shafts and woodies, and "just shooting". I've spent too much energy in all the techie stuff the last couple of years, and I'm ready to sit back and take a breath.
Thanks for posting Terry....
To discuss Arrow tuning, shaft choices etc...
i'm in agreement, and I read the posts that interest me. Nothing wrong with Carbon shafts, but since I've joined here it is somewhat taking me back to wheelie days. Shaft Material EFOC, carbon shaft material.
I'm not trying to bash new materials personal choices. But I remember the good old days of shooting aluminum shafts and woodies, and "just shooting". I've spent too much energy in all the techie stuff the last couple of years, and I'm ready to sit back and take a breath.
Thanks for posting Terry....
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: flippnsticks on February 14, 2012, 07:45:00 AM
Post by: flippnsticks on February 14, 2012, 07:45:00 AM
THANK YOU TERRY :clapper: :clapper: :clapper:
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Bowwild on February 14, 2012, 08:12:00 AM
Post by: Bowwild on February 14, 2012, 08:12:00 AM
I must have a 6th sense to avoid the contentious threads. I can't remember the last time I read a post here where I thought someone was being critical of another.
That's why I stopped even reading on the ***********.
That's why I stopped even reading on the ***********.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: KentuckyTJ on February 14, 2012, 08:20:00 AM
Post by: KentuckyTJ on February 14, 2012, 08:20:00 AM
I haven't been on much lately due to post season "burn out" and the off season threads that always start this time of year so I am just seeing this.
This is a touchy subject to say the least. I know personally I strive to be the best shot and have the best flying arrow I can and my reasoning is that the animals I hunt deserve that from me. Most of my time goes into fine tuning myself and not looking to some gadget for improvement. But with that said that is the reason I use carbon arrows and make sure every fletch is perfectly aligned and so on. There are some on here that use totally traditional equipment that think I am a gadget man and am not truly trad.
I think we must be careful as to what we limit as it seems of late there is a big changeover from compound shooters to trad gear and that's a good thing. I agree that a thread that is malicious in content should be pulled, but not sure how to handle the in between threads that someone is asking about a gadget and looking to improve their shooting. That is all part of the learning process in my opinion and most likely simply a step closer to true traditional gear. How many of you jumped straight into being true traditional? I know mine was a progression that is still going. If a neighbor came over and wanted you to help with his new snazzy arrow holder and clicker on his trad bow would you slam the door in his face?
Do we shun those guys, their thoughts and questions?
Do we have a "Gadget" section and let them run wild?
I don't know where to draw the line or how to answer these questions, but I do know if that neighbor walked over to my house I wouldn't slam the door in his face.
This is a touchy subject to say the least. I know personally I strive to be the best shot and have the best flying arrow I can and my reasoning is that the animals I hunt deserve that from me. Most of my time goes into fine tuning myself and not looking to some gadget for improvement. But with that said that is the reason I use carbon arrows and make sure every fletch is perfectly aligned and so on. There are some on here that use totally traditional equipment that think I am a gadget man and am not truly trad.
I think we must be careful as to what we limit as it seems of late there is a big changeover from compound shooters to trad gear and that's a good thing. I agree that a thread that is malicious in content should be pulled, but not sure how to handle the in between threads that someone is asking about a gadget and looking to improve their shooting. That is all part of the learning process in my opinion and most likely simply a step closer to true traditional gear. How many of you jumped straight into being true traditional? I know mine was a progression that is still going. If a neighbor came over and wanted you to help with his new snazzy arrow holder and clicker on his trad bow would you slam the door in his face?
Do we shun those guys, their thoughts and questions?
Do we have a "Gadget" section and let them run wild?
I don't know where to draw the line or how to answer these questions, but I do know if that neighbor walked over to my house I wouldn't slam the door in his face.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: gringol on February 14, 2012, 08:32:00 AM
Post by: gringol on February 14, 2012, 08:32:00 AM
Good post, Terry. And a good discussion by the great people here. Nothing wrong with a friendly (albiet curt) reminder that traditional bow hunting is more about the hunting than the bow. A wise old indian (seriously, he was an indian) once told me the most important thing in bow hunting is getting close. Get inside 15 yards and draw weight, arrow weight, type of broadhead, etc get exponentially less important.
Most of us have been guilty of a little too much techie talk, so no one should take Terry's post personally. In the spirit of personal betterment, we should all strive to steer OURSELVES away from too much of the techie talk.
Most of us have been guilty of a little too much techie talk, so no one should take Terry's post personally. In the spirit of personal betterment, we should all strive to steer OURSELVES away from too much of the techie talk.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: easyup on February 14, 2012, 08:50:00 AM
Post by: easyup on February 14, 2012, 08:50:00 AM
Terry, I see the same things in my other sports. It is now common in my bike club to delay and cut short a ride due to an argument over a few grams of weight or which shifter is smoother. What is sad is it is becoming an expectation in the younger guys, so when slow up a hill they go after a couple of grams of bike weight with physical conditioning never being considered. We are becoming a nation searching for quick tech fixes to our short comings.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: psychmonky on February 14, 2012, 09:03:00 AM
Post by: psychmonky on February 14, 2012, 09:03:00 AM
I have virtually NO experience compared to a lot of you guys.
Lately, I have been bitten by the building bug, so I have been spending a lot of time in the bowyer's bench room. It seems that in that forum, "tech" questions are almost necessary. Being able to ask questions on boo vs. hickory or find opinions on power lams is a boon to folks who are just starting in the craft.
If in that forum, "tech" questions are acceptable, maybe a designated Tech forum would be a good thing. A place for people to ask performance questions.
I will add one final thought. A lot of folks have mentioned the search feature on this site. The search feature is nice, and there is a ton of info there. The problem is that old threads aren't dynamic. They are static in that the info doesn't change. If I ask a question that has been asked 100 times in the past, in all likelihood, someone will have gained a fresh perspective on the subject and be able to offer new advice.
Scott
Lately, I have been bitten by the building bug, so I have been spending a lot of time in the bowyer's bench room. It seems that in that forum, "tech" questions are almost necessary. Being able to ask questions on boo vs. hickory or find opinions on power lams is a boon to folks who are just starting in the craft.
If in that forum, "tech" questions are acceptable, maybe a designated Tech forum would be a good thing. A place for people to ask performance questions.
I will add one final thought. A lot of folks have mentioned the search feature on this site. The search feature is nice, and there is a ton of info there. The problem is that old threads aren't dynamic. They are static in that the info doesn't change. If I ask a question that has been asked 100 times in the past, in all likelihood, someone will have gained a fresh perspective on the subject and be able to offer new advice.
Scott
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Smithhammer on February 14, 2012, 09:15:00 AM
Post by: Smithhammer on February 14, 2012, 09:15:00 AM
Not surprisingly, I'm going to disagree.
If such conversations are advancing ideas that truly have no merit, then I believe the best thing to do is let those conversations happen in the open, where others can at least learn from it. Banning certain subjects, when those subjects are relevant to traditional hunting and tuning (whether you personally agree with them or not), helps no one learn anything.
I also don't see such conversations being driven by folks who are "crossing over from compound hunting," at all, or by folks who are seeking to have gear replace skill. And they are certainly not discussions that are the result of inexperience, looking at some of those individuals who are contributing to them. Nor do I truly find such discussions to be all that "techie" - no more so than discussions about the virtues of different string materials, etc.
Maybe you are someone who has gravitated to traditional archery because you don't want to focus on technical matters. That's perfectly fine - I also appreciate the simplicity of it, and it is one of the things that has drawn me to it. But there are also many of us - dedicated traditional archers as well, who still want to be able to discuss such matters, and learn from the experiences of others. This always has been a fundamental part of our "tradition." I see nothing wrong with this, and certainly nothing so extreme that it should be "banned." There will always be threads that interest some more than others, no matter what the subject, but all of these subjects are still relevant to the topic at hand. If a certain topic doesn't interest you, it's simple - ignore it.
The idea of a "Tech" forum could be a constructive solution.
Again - I believe the most valuable learning happens in the open, not by shutting doors. And that all of us, regardless of experience level, should hopefully still be open to learning. "Tradition" only avoids stagnation by being balanced with an open mind.
If such conversations are advancing ideas that truly have no merit, then I believe the best thing to do is let those conversations happen in the open, where others can at least learn from it. Banning certain subjects, when those subjects are relevant to traditional hunting and tuning (whether you personally agree with them or not), helps no one learn anything.
I also don't see such conversations being driven by folks who are "crossing over from compound hunting," at all, or by folks who are seeking to have gear replace skill. And they are certainly not discussions that are the result of inexperience, looking at some of those individuals who are contributing to them. Nor do I truly find such discussions to be all that "techie" - no more so than discussions about the virtues of different string materials, etc.
Maybe you are someone who has gravitated to traditional archery because you don't want to focus on technical matters. That's perfectly fine - I also appreciate the simplicity of it, and it is one of the things that has drawn me to it. But there are also many of us - dedicated traditional archers as well, who still want to be able to discuss such matters, and learn from the experiences of others. This always has been a fundamental part of our "tradition." I see nothing wrong with this, and certainly nothing so extreme that it should be "banned." There will always be threads that interest some more than others, no matter what the subject, but all of these subjects are still relevant to the topic at hand. If a certain topic doesn't interest you, it's simple - ignore it.
The idea of a "Tech" forum could be a constructive solution.
Again - I believe the most valuable learning happens in the open, not by shutting doors. And that all of us, regardless of experience level, should hopefully still be open to learning. "Tradition" only avoids stagnation by being balanced with an open mind.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Terry Green on February 14, 2012, 09:33:00 AM
Post by: Terry Green on February 14, 2012, 09:33:00 AM
For those that didn't notice...this thread is over 2 years old.
It was started for a purpose and it served its purpose....it has also been resurrected for the last 2 years for a reason.
Some of you are new, some haven't even been here 3 months that don't have a clue why this thread was started as they have no idea the history behind this site, and what generated this thread 2 years ago.
TradGang, a Trad Bowhunting forum, is not going to be taken over by tech threads.
It was started for a purpose and it served its purpose....it has also been resurrected for the last 2 years for a reason.
Some of you are new, some haven't even been here 3 months that don't have a clue why this thread was started as they have no idea the history behind this site, and what generated this thread 2 years ago.
TradGang, a Trad Bowhunting forum, is not going to be taken over by tech threads.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Trumpkin the Dwarf on February 14, 2012, 09:35:00 AM
Post by: Trumpkin the Dwarf on February 14, 2012, 09:35:00 AM
Great post Terry!
I was reading through the archived stories the other day and wishing there were more posts like them in the pow wow. My favorite threads of all time here on tradgang are the Solana ranch hunts and the Texas Sweat hunts. I love to hear about how other people hunt!
I have a foot in both camps here though, so to speak. The guys here answered my early questions about gear and got me going in the right direction. As a college student, I don't have the cash to make an 80 dollar mistake in arrows. I trusted the people here to get me close enough that I only needed to buy once when setting up for hunting elk. As for the search function, I used it a lot before asking and all I got were more questions(which the people here answered very patiently).
With that said however, I grew up hunting with my dad and grandfather. I learned that gear only enhances the skills you have already developed. If I cannot get close to the animal I hunt, I don't get to use my high end bow and front heavy arrows. If I cannot read sign I may follow a track that is three days old. Woodsmanship is very important as a trad bow hunter and the fine people on here are happy to share their knowledge when asked. The other day JimB responded to a query of mine about hunting bears. He said not a single word about gear, and his response was as long as most essays I write for school(and immensely helpful)! I am sure it took him almost an hour to respond to my post. So hats off to all the people like JimB here on trad gang!
I was reading through the archived stories the other day and wishing there were more posts like them in the pow wow. My favorite threads of all time here on tradgang are the Solana ranch hunts and the Texas Sweat hunts. I love to hear about how other people hunt!
I have a foot in both camps here though, so to speak. The guys here answered my early questions about gear and got me going in the right direction. As a college student, I don't have the cash to make an 80 dollar mistake in arrows. I trusted the people here to get me close enough that I only needed to buy once when setting up for hunting elk. As for the search function, I used it a lot before asking and all I got were more questions(which the people here answered very patiently).
With that said however, I grew up hunting with my dad and grandfather. I learned that gear only enhances the skills you have already developed. If I cannot get close to the animal I hunt, I don't get to use my high end bow and front heavy arrows. If I cannot read sign I may follow a track that is three days old. Woodsmanship is very important as a trad bow hunter and the fine people on here are happy to share their knowledge when asked. The other day JimB responded to a query of mine about hunting bears. He said not a single word about gear, and his response was as long as most essays I write for school(and immensely helpful)! I am sure it took him almost an hour to respond to my post. So hats off to all the people like JimB here on trad gang!
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Smithhammer on February 14, 2012, 09:37:00 AM
Post by: Smithhammer on February 14, 2012, 09:37:00 AM
Terry -
If you're referring to me, I've been following this site far longer than I've been a registered member, so I wouldn't just go by when I registered. I've also dug into many old threads, and read all of this one. I think I am at least somewhat familiar with the history.
Are you really that concerned that "tech threads" might take the site over? Personally, I just don't see it.
If you're referring to me, I've been following this site far longer than I've been a registered member, so I wouldn't just go by when I registered. I've also dug into many old threads, and read all of this one. I think I am at least somewhat familiar with the history.
Are you really that concerned that "tech threads" might take the site over? Personally, I just don't see it.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Bowwild on February 14, 2012, 09:56:00 AM
Post by: Bowwild on February 14, 2012, 09:56:00 AM
I think most of us would like not to be offensive or post in ways the owners of Trad Gang don't want. I for one would like to see a list of topics/content the Mods would like not to see.
That could save me a lot of time.
By choice, I'm ususally a gang of one. I turn down hunts most people would gladly pay for. I hunt by myself most of the time. I hunt with my son or my best friend some of the time. One of the attractions for me about bowhunting has always (1970 on)been the opportunity for solitude.
That could save me a lot of time.
By choice, I'm ususally a gang of one. I turn down hunts most people would gladly pay for. I hunt by myself most of the time. I hunt with my son or my best friend some of the time. One of the attractions for me about bowhunting has always (1970 on)been the opportunity for solitude.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: legends1 on February 14, 2012, 10:06:00 AM
Post by: legends1 on February 14, 2012, 10:06:00 AM
Terry,I have had this conversation with others as of lately.We also noticed the trend.I see it more and more in my business.Folk tend to ask high tech questions about the bows I build.pushes a bowyer to the performance max.I also like a nice performing bow,but what about feel , accuracy ect.I even notice some bowyers getting in on the act and sounding like a mad scientist with their design.Honestly, no bowyer is reinventing the wheel.Thanks so much for bringing this subject up.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Terry Green on February 14, 2012, 10:10:00 AM
Post by: Terry Green on February 14, 2012, 10:10:00 AM
QuoteOriginally posted by Smithhammer:No, I'm not....because I'm gong to personally see to it.
Terry -
Are you really that concerned that "tech threads" might take the site over? Personally, I just don't see it.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: cacciatore on February 14, 2012, 10:15:00 AM
Post by: cacciatore on February 14, 2012, 10:15:00 AM
Terry,you are completely right! i was wondering the same thing you posted in your first post.I am findind those too much tecnical threads very boring because they come off over and over.I don't say we don't need to master and fine tune our equipment,but as trad Bowhunters it is much more important to be good hunters than shooters.
To became a better hunter is a natural and personal process full of satisfations,to be a great shot is more good for the range and more bond to the equipment than correlated with our natural skills.I plan to work in the way you rightly suggest in my future threads.To learn a lot and teach something! :notworthy:
To became a better hunter is a natural and personal process full of satisfations,to be a great shot is more good for the range and more bond to the equipment than correlated with our natural skills.I plan to work in the way you rightly suggest in my future threads.To learn a lot and teach something! :notworthy:
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Zradix on February 14, 2012, 10:16:00 AM
Post by: Zradix on February 14, 2012, 10:16:00 AM
Bowwild I agree.
There is a list of off topic subjects...and I've read and try to abide by them as most of us do.
There was a post a week or so ago that discussed smaller feathers being used with higher foc arrows.
That post was closed and so were a couple of links posted that pointed to older posts discussing similar topics.
I got the "hint" that small feather discussions were "off topic".
I'm not sure if that was the intended message or if they were just too techie for this site.
I found it an interesting read.
Personally, I like a bigger rudder on my hunting arrows.
I know some of the mods have posted quite a few times of the merits of larger feathers for hunting....also judging from pics posted, there are a few mods that use low pro nanners.
I suppose what I'm saying is I'm at a point of GUESSING at which topics are acceptable.
And I watched the posts be removed...as opposed to someone that didn't notice and asked the very same questions later out of pure curiosity with no idea it might be off topic.
If there are changes to the policy I'd like to know and be able to abide by the rules.
This is a great site.
I would like to help keep it going the direction intended by the founders.
Just please give me a clear direction.
:campfire:
There is a list of off topic subjects...and I've read and try to abide by them as most of us do.
There was a post a week or so ago that discussed smaller feathers being used with higher foc arrows.
That post was closed and so were a couple of links posted that pointed to older posts discussing similar topics.
I got the "hint" that small feather discussions were "off topic".
I'm not sure if that was the intended message or if they were just too techie for this site.
I found it an interesting read.
Personally, I like a bigger rudder on my hunting arrows.
I know some of the mods have posted quite a few times of the merits of larger feathers for hunting....also judging from pics posted, there are a few mods that use low pro nanners.
I suppose what I'm saying is I'm at a point of GUESSING at which topics are acceptable.
And I watched the posts be removed...as opposed to someone that didn't notice and asked the very same questions later out of pure curiosity with no idea it might be off topic.
If there are changes to the policy I'd like to know and be able to abide by the rules.
This is a great site.
I would like to help keep it going the direction intended by the founders.
Just please give me a clear direction.
:campfire:
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Bishop on February 14, 2012, 10:22:00 AM
Post by: Bishop on February 14, 2012, 10:22:00 AM
You are a guest in someones house, all that is asked by the host is to avoid certain topics of conversation. How many of us would go into someones house and intentionally make the host uncomfortable?
I like what you're doing Terry.
I like what you're doing Terry.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Rustic on February 14, 2012, 10:22:00 AM
Post by: Rustic on February 14, 2012, 10:22:00 AM
Thanks Terry. I support you 100%. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: bow_man_66 on February 14, 2012, 10:27:00 AM
Post by: bow_man_66 on February 14, 2012, 10:27:00 AM
Terry, I really have no right to post on this topic as new as I am to this site but here goes. Thank you!!! I try to follow the rules you have set and I'm sure you will let me know if I stray. Hopefully that will never happen. Keep up the good work, your passion shows!!! Enough said.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Bowwild on February 14, 2012, 10:32:00 AM
Post by: Bowwild on February 14, 2012, 10:32:00 AM
Zradix,
Thanks for reminding me of the "list" by RD. I have looked at that before. I just looked at it again. Whew!! I haven't made any of those types of posts.
My posts have ranged from scouting, biology, hunting and hunter data, to yep...absolute details about the specifications of various bows and matter-of-fact comparisons of these bows.
Of course certain words such as "compound" are difficult to keep completely out of a post, especially when someone is asking for advice about how to make the transition back or to recurves, longbows, or self-bows.
Just as some folks don't like to read posts about arrow spine or extending effective range, there are some types of threads that I can't stand. I just cruise on by those.
Thanks for reminding me of the "list" by RD. I have looked at that before. I just looked at it again. Whew!! I haven't made any of those types of posts.
My posts have ranged from scouting, biology, hunting and hunter data, to yep...absolute details about the specifications of various bows and matter-of-fact comparisons of these bows.
Of course certain words such as "compound" are difficult to keep completely out of a post, especially when someone is asking for advice about how to make the transition back or to recurves, longbows, or self-bows.
Just as some folks don't like to read posts about arrow spine or extending effective range, there are some types of threads that I can't stand. I just cruise on by those.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Dimondback on February 14, 2012, 10:35:00 AM
Post by: Dimondback on February 14, 2012, 10:35:00 AM
I agree to some extent. I am a fairly new member, but like many others, I have spent countless hours on the site prior to joining up. I do understand Terry's concern for the site straying away from the initial vision and purpose. Like some of the other posters have mentioned, if you are new to traditional archery or just getting back to it (as is the case with me after a 15 year wheelie/gun pursuit), the equipment/setup threads are invaluable for filling in the gaps that cannot be gleaned from books and magazines. It was through the input from many of the folks on this site that I was able to put together a properly tuned setup so I COULD focus on my faults rather than diagnosing problems with equipment. The way I have things put together now rules out every issue narrowing accuracy problems down to the true problem....shooting form...which again Terry's "Clock" method and other tips have helped out significantly.
I think the way the site is structured is excellent....those that are seeking the hunting strategy/advice, bow building tech tips, or just want to "shoot the bull" about traditional archery can go striaght to the section without wading through random posts to get the info they need. I like having the option to study someones' strategy or setup in pursuing South Carolina Hogs when that is what I am looking for, but a huge gap would be felt if I could not go this page and also see if someone out there has worked through an issue with a certain bow/arrow/draw weight combination that I am dealing with. I think that there is a balance between the two.
Most likely the source of the issue is the fact that through busy work schedules, kids, military deployments, 12 hours of darkness etc....we cannot be hunting or shooting all of the times that we want to...so we tinker with our gear and want to talk to others about....tinkering with our gear....so that when we do get out to do the things that we love we CAN focus on what is truly important...learning the woods, the animals, perfecting the shooter at the range rather than fighting and fixing equipment.
You guys do an awesome job keeping this site in the realm that it is intended and Trad Gang is one of the only reasons I get "online" in the first place but I would not enjoy the experience nearly as much if I could not come here and share ALL aspects of hunting-focused traditional archery. Thanks for a great service and site!
I think the way the site is structured is excellent....those that are seeking the hunting strategy/advice, bow building tech tips, or just want to "shoot the bull" about traditional archery can go striaght to the section without wading through random posts to get the info they need. I like having the option to study someones' strategy or setup in pursuing South Carolina Hogs when that is what I am looking for, but a huge gap would be felt if I could not go this page and also see if someone out there has worked through an issue with a certain bow/arrow/draw weight combination that I am dealing with. I think that there is a balance between the two.
Most likely the source of the issue is the fact that through busy work schedules, kids, military deployments, 12 hours of darkness etc....we cannot be hunting or shooting all of the times that we want to...so we tinker with our gear and want to talk to others about....tinkering with our gear....so that when we do get out to do the things that we love we CAN focus on what is truly important...learning the woods, the animals, perfecting the shooter at the range rather than fighting and fixing equipment.
You guys do an awesome job keeping this site in the realm that it is intended and Trad Gang is one of the only reasons I get "online" in the first place but I would not enjoy the experience nearly as much if I could not come here and share ALL aspects of hunting-focused traditional archery. Thanks for a great service and site!
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Swamp Yankee on February 14, 2012, 10:40:00 AM
Post by: Swamp Yankee on February 14, 2012, 10:40:00 AM
I suspect new technology has been a topic of discussion among hunters since the first rock was thrown to kill dinner. Why not just set up a "Traditional Technology Discussion" forum for those who want to discuss those issues within the context of stick and string shooting (non-compound)? While I rarely wade through any post more than two pages long, I occasionally do find the conversations about how to gain .000043 fps (or the ubiquitous "I don't care about speed but..") conversation, while not very practical, somewhat entertaining at times.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Knawbone on February 14, 2012, 10:42:00 AM
Post by: Knawbone on February 14, 2012, 10:42:00 AM
Thanks Terry, traditional bow hunting is what this site is all about. The voice of the members is the " checks and balances " which will keep it just that. I believe for this site the spirit of " traditional " will always rule, thankfully for the efforts of you and all who understand what that spirit is. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: old coyote on February 14, 2012, 10:47:00 AM
Post by: old coyote on February 14, 2012, 10:47:00 AM
Terry, I'm 100% with you.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: danderson on February 14, 2012, 10:48:00 AM
Post by: danderson on February 14, 2012, 10:48:00 AM
I don't exactly call what we have as traditional gear that trad. Almost everyone on here is shooting bows with glass in them, a lot aren't shooting wood arrows, and a decent amount have fast flight strings (and so do compounds). So I think unless you define trad as being stuck in the 1950's boom of bowhunting, most of what is trad isn't that different from all these tech talks people are bringing up.
Crucify me for posting this but we all have different definitions of trad and i think we lost a few good threads lately that I would call pertinent to being "trad"
Crucify me for posting this but we all have different definitions of trad and i think we lost a few good threads lately that I would call pertinent to being "trad"
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: KentuckyTJ on February 14, 2012, 10:55:00 AM
Post by: KentuckyTJ on February 14, 2012, 10:55:00 AM
QuoteOriginally posted by Bishop:Good point Bishop and I agree I will keep my thoughts to myself on this from now on.
You are a guest in someones house, all that is asked by the host is to avoid certain topics of conversation. How many of us would go into someones house and intentionally make the host uncomfortable?
I like what you're doing Terry.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Smithhammer on February 14, 2012, 10:58:00 AM
Post by: Smithhammer on February 14, 2012, 10:58:00 AM
This has, inadvertently, been one of the most educational threads I've read on this forum in some time. Thanks to all who've weighed in.
May our worlds continue to be full of ideas we don't agree with, for the alternative is truly frightening.
May our worlds continue to be full of ideas we don't agree with, for the alternative is truly frightening.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: KSdan on February 14, 2012, 11:00:00 AM
Post by: KSdan on February 14, 2012, 11:00:00 AM
Terry- I am not quite sure the threads you are speaking about. Actually- I appreciate some of the equip discussion as many of us have no one to compare notes with. Further, I really do think there are many young guys out there getting into trad that have no idea where to begin. So- some equip/performance discussion is really helpful.
Could some of those discussions be place in a different area besides POW Wow? Could it be an area with resource/tutorial/article type info where questions can be asked, but no debate. Hate to see the wealth of info (beside arguing!!) lost.
A young generation needs mentors!
Dan
Could some of those discussions be place in a different area besides POW Wow? Could it be an area with resource/tutorial/article type info where questions can be asked, but no debate. Hate to see the wealth of info (beside arguing!!) lost.
A young generation needs mentors!
Dan
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Terry Green on February 14, 2012, 11:05:00 AM
Post by: Terry Green on February 14, 2012, 11:05:00 AM
Dan...this is not about the fundamentals....I've tried and tried in this thread earlier to state that. This IS the place to learn how and where to start....that is NOT the problem. Just look at Rob D's Signature...or at the top of the PowWow...the basics are always welcome here. We aren't shunning anyone away from the basic fundamentals. Never have and never will.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: John Nail on February 14, 2012, 11:06:00 AM
Post by: John Nail on February 14, 2012, 11:06:00 AM
Terry, like the English teacher said, "Ya done good!"
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: PaddyMac on February 14, 2012, 11:13:00 AM
Post by: PaddyMac on February 14, 2012, 11:13:00 AM
Boy, did I get sucked into this thread. Note the dates!
Very interesting. This whole thread kind of mirrors my thinking over several years. I love how this site does that. Its like a David Maas painting I saw once of a bunch of trees. You stare at it for a while just letting your eyes wander and then WHAM! there's a buck and you're busted. That's art.
Once upon a time I couldn't kill a lame cottontail without a hex wrench and a slide rule.
I've been very fortunate in my career to have talked with some real life legends of bowhunting and I'm disappointed to say that some of the plain thoughts I heard rolled off me like Shakepeare off a teenager. Luckily, I'm old enough to appreciate some of the "old threads" I can still remember.
It isn't the string material. It's the wind.
It isn't the curve of the bow. It's the lay of the land.
It isn't the tweaking of the fletch helical. It's what you do with your eyes and lungs and all that adrenalin 20 seconds before the shot is there.
It isn't the algebra of weight and balance. It's the tai chi of how you are going to take that next step.
All the paraphernalia of what we do in traditional bowhunting is fun to me. I like working with leather and fletching arrows and practicing, but that's just the hobby and the tinkering. It's the adjusting of the seat and the steering wheel, but it's not the race.
Very interesting. This whole thread kind of mirrors my thinking over several years. I love how this site does that. Its like a David Maas painting I saw once of a bunch of trees. You stare at it for a while just letting your eyes wander and then WHAM! there's a buck and you're busted. That's art.
Once upon a time I couldn't kill a lame cottontail without a hex wrench and a slide rule.
I've been very fortunate in my career to have talked with some real life legends of bowhunting and I'm disappointed to say that some of the plain thoughts I heard rolled off me like Shakepeare off a teenager. Luckily, I'm old enough to appreciate some of the "old threads" I can still remember.
It isn't the string material. It's the wind.
It isn't the curve of the bow. It's the lay of the land.
It isn't the tweaking of the fletch helical. It's what you do with your eyes and lungs and all that adrenalin 20 seconds before the shot is there.
It isn't the algebra of weight and balance. It's the tai chi of how you are going to take that next step.
All the paraphernalia of what we do in traditional bowhunting is fun to me. I like working with leather and fletching arrows and practicing, but that's just the hobby and the tinkering. It's the adjusting of the seat and the steering wheel, but it's not the race.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: KSdan on February 14, 2012, 11:22:00 AM
Post by: KSdan on February 14, 2012, 11:22:00 AM
Terry- I am really not arguing. I am in support of what you guys created here. I guess I just do not see the conflict- but honestly I just may not have read/or witnessed the posts you feel are an abuse.
I am not arguing with your concerns. I just do think there is a wealth of knowledge out there that I do hope gets passed on somehow. I am in my 50s, strictly trad for 30 years now, and I get young guys off here emailing me for questions. Kind of surprises me.
Like I said- perhaps an area with tutorial or knowledge base articles, like the Dr. Ashby study could really be an awesome resource.
Thanks for an awesome site.
Dan
I am not arguing with your concerns. I just do think there is a wealth of knowledge out there that I do hope gets passed on somehow. I am in my 50s, strictly trad for 30 years now, and I get young guys off here emailing me for questions. Kind of surprises me.
Like I said- perhaps an area with tutorial or knowledge base articles, like the Dr. Ashby study could really be an awesome resource.
Thanks for an awesome site.
Dan
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: lpcjon2 on February 14, 2012, 11:58:00 AM
Post by: lpcjon2 on February 14, 2012, 11:58:00 AM
As I read and follow this I see a recurring effect. Terry posted what he wants to be the basis of his site, and people take it personal and get upset as if it is out of line for him to want his site the way he intended it to be.
Think for a minute, if you take this thread personal and get defensive stop and think how he may feel about his site that he started with his own vision,being redirected from his vision.
Nobody but Terry should be taking anything personal! Through the years he has tactfully handled this place for the better of all of us. So be thankful and give the man the respect he has earned, after all he made this to share with all of us.
Think for a minute, if you take this thread personal and get defensive stop and think how he may feel about his site that he started with his own vision,being redirected from his vision.
Nobody but Terry should be taking anything personal! Through the years he has tactfully handled this place for the better of all of us. So be thankful and give the man the respect he has earned, after all he made this to share with all of us.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: kbetts on February 14, 2012, 12:15:00 PM
Post by: kbetts on February 14, 2012, 12:15:00 PM
How bout a spot for"Newbe questions" or maybe "Ridiculous Tech questions".
I love this place. I learned more by reading and keeping my mouth shut. Good for you Terry. It's your site, do with it what you please. Now I just need to send some $ to show my appreciation!
I love this place. I learned more by reading and keeping my mouth shut. Good for you Terry. It's your site, do with it what you please. Now I just need to send some $ to show my appreciation!
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Kenny Henderson on February 14, 2012, 12:23:00 PM
Post by: Kenny Henderson on February 14, 2012, 12:23:00 PM
THANK YOU TERRY!!!I was wondering when this site was going to morph into something it wasn't intended to be. Thanks.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Pepper on February 14, 2012, 12:24:00 PM
Post by: Pepper on February 14, 2012, 12:24:00 PM
Way to go Terry.
This should be a sticky note.
Something that we all will see each time we log on.
I am with you, I too have deviated from the basic concept that this site was founded on.
I look forward to making more positive comments, and asking more questions directed at the concept of self improvement, and any other that will improve the sport.
Thanks
This should be a sticky note.
Something that we all will see each time we log on.
I am with you, I too have deviated from the basic concept that this site was founded on.
I look forward to making more positive comments, and asking more questions directed at the concept of self improvement, and any other that will improve the sport.
Thanks
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Kevin Dill on February 14, 2012, 12:37:00 PM
Post by: Kevin Dill on February 14, 2012, 12:37:00 PM
I am very curious: How do you educate or clearly inform people where "the line" is drawn? It seems quite subjective to allow certain postings regarding equipment choices or tuning (5.5" shields make my hunting arrows fly better) while others are disallowed (I'm using 3" parabolics for arrow speed).
Obviously you can allow and disallow anything you like here, and I will always support that right. Allowing people to talk about tuning their equipment...but only so far...doesn't provide enough clarification on how far. The line gets crossed constantly (partly) because it's a fine line. The grayer the area...the grayer your hair.
Appreciate you, and your website....
Obviously you can allow and disallow anything you like here, and I will always support that right. Allowing people to talk about tuning their equipment...but only so far...doesn't provide enough clarification on how far. The line gets crossed constantly (partly) because it's a fine line. The grayer the area...the grayer your hair.
Appreciate you, and your website....
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Terry Green on February 14, 2012, 12:37:00 PM
Post by: Terry Green on February 14, 2012, 12:37:00 PM
kbetts....
This is at the top of the PowWow....Rob put a lot of time and effort into this so folks would have a starting point.
Click Here (http://www.tradgang.com/docs/trad.html)
This is at the top of the PowWow....Rob put a lot of time and effort into this so folks would have a starting point.
Click Here (http://www.tradgang.com/docs/trad.html)
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: deaddoc4444 on February 14, 2012, 01:26:00 PM
Post by: deaddoc4444 on February 14, 2012, 01:26:00 PM
WELL lots of reading and lots of repeated thoughts .
MY IDEA is this: I LIKE to have information available to me. EXAMPLE I am starting to run low on my stock of cedar arrow shafts . ( I Used to buy by the hundreds from Acme and Rose city in the 80s and early 90s) BUT in the last few years I have LEARNED from this site that the quality of Cedar has gone down a lot on the last 15 years SO as I get near to replenishment of materials to make arrows I Need to find a different material to make arrows . SEARCH on this site proved very valuable to finding thoughts on different wood offerings to make arrows from . "B U T " some of those threads not only GREAT information on a shaft material BUT other information chimed in like "WHY ARE YOU BOTHERING WITH WOOD ARROW MATERIAL WHEN CARBON IS SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO MUCH BETTER "
That is where we are getting lost in the tech stuff. I DON'T want to hear about your ideas on OTHER FORMS of WHAT YOU consider better on a thread designed to be about a subject NOT including what YOU want to talk about !!!!!!!!!!!!!! I Learn a lot here BUT IF I don't want to learn about YOUR way DOT TELL ME ABOUT IT LIKE ITS GOSPEL BY JUMPING INTO A THREAD THAT IS not about what you believe.
ALSO on a side note one of the first comments along the way compared some of our stuff to "rap Music " WELL that doesn't exist bad comparison . Music is defined as a combination of RYTHM, Melody, and Beat ( encyclopedia def.) RAP has no melody SO there fore it is NOT music > JMHO
MY IDEA is this: I LIKE to have information available to me. EXAMPLE I am starting to run low on my stock of cedar arrow shafts . ( I Used to buy by the hundreds from Acme and Rose city in the 80s and early 90s) BUT in the last few years I have LEARNED from this site that the quality of Cedar has gone down a lot on the last 15 years SO as I get near to replenishment of materials to make arrows I Need to find a different material to make arrows . SEARCH on this site proved very valuable to finding thoughts on different wood offerings to make arrows from . "B U T " some of those threads not only GREAT information on a shaft material BUT other information chimed in like "WHY ARE YOU BOTHERING WITH WOOD ARROW MATERIAL WHEN CARBON IS SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO MUCH BETTER "
That is where we are getting lost in the tech stuff. I DON'T want to hear about your ideas on OTHER FORMS of WHAT YOU consider better on a thread designed to be about a subject NOT including what YOU want to talk about !!!!!!!!!!!!!! I Learn a lot here BUT IF I don't want to learn about YOUR way DOT TELL ME ABOUT IT LIKE ITS GOSPEL BY JUMPING INTO A THREAD THAT IS not about what you believe.
ALSO on a side note one of the first comments along the way compared some of our stuff to "rap Music " WELL that doesn't exist bad comparison . Music is defined as a combination of RYTHM, Melody, and Beat ( encyclopedia def.) RAP has no melody SO there fore it is NOT music > JMHO
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: NormanDale33 on February 14, 2012, 02:32:00 PM
Post by: NormanDale33 on February 14, 2012, 02:32:00 PM
Terry,
As a "newbie" I was originally mis-understanding your post. However, I think you are completely correct and I fully support your stance. I have had tons of help from this site getting started with trad hunting. This site is full of folks eager to help others like myself learn the basics of trad shooting...for hunting. We are responsible for our actions and results as hunters...and whether or not you shoot a 2,3, or 4-blade broadhead with 25 or 26% EFOC isn't important. How well you shoot it is. I still struggle figuring out how to tune my bow to my arrows, but I am getting there thanks to the folks at this site.
Thanks for making this site what it is.
As a "newbie" I was originally mis-understanding your post. However, I think you are completely correct and I fully support your stance. I have had tons of help from this site getting started with trad hunting. This site is full of folks eager to help others like myself learn the basics of trad shooting...for hunting. We are responsible for our actions and results as hunters...and whether or not you shoot a 2,3, or 4-blade broadhead with 25 or 26% EFOC isn't important. How well you shoot it is. I still struggle figuring out how to tune my bow to my arrows, but I am getting there thanks to the folks at this site.
Thanks for making this site what it is.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Zradix on February 14, 2012, 02:34:00 PM
Post by: Zradix on February 14, 2012, 02:34:00 PM
Norman.
The secret is to tune the arrow to you and the bow.
Way easier than the other way around bro.
:thumbsup:
The secret is to tune the arrow to you and the bow.
Way easier than the other way around bro.
:thumbsup:
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Bladepeek on February 14, 2012, 03:06:00 PM
Post by: Bladepeek on February 14, 2012, 03:06:00 PM
Terry, I like your post, sympathize with your views and recognize that you have a paternal concern for the site. You and a lot of others worked hard to create a site for like minded hunters. I'm guessing you're working a lot harder now trying to maintain it with the huge growth it's seen.
At the same time, judging from the member numbers, I'm not the only newbie here. Speaking for myself only, I'm soaking this stuff up like a sponge. I am, by nature, conservative. I liked big heavy bullets when I hunted with a rifle. I favor slower but heavier arrows for the same reason. I can still understand someone's desire to wring just a little bit more performance out of their equipment. I don't see any of the bowyer sponsors advertising that their bow may not be very fast, but it sure is comfortable to shoot.
I see your job and that of the other moderators as benevolent dictators. Preserve the integrity of the site and maintain its direction without making it a "my way only" site.
Brother, I sure don't envy you the task, but I'm also very glad to see you carrying the load.
Ron
At the same time, judging from the member numbers, I'm not the only newbie here. Speaking for myself only, I'm soaking this stuff up like a sponge. I am, by nature, conservative. I liked big heavy bullets when I hunted with a rifle. I favor slower but heavier arrows for the same reason. I can still understand someone's desire to wring just a little bit more performance out of their equipment. I don't see any of the bowyer sponsors advertising that their bow may not be very fast, but it sure is comfortable to shoot.
I see your job and that of the other moderators as benevolent dictators. Preserve the integrity of the site and maintain its direction without making it a "my way only" site.
Brother, I sure don't envy you the task, but I'm also very glad to see you carrying the load.
Ron
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Blackhat on February 14, 2012, 03:11:00 PM
Post by: Blackhat on February 14, 2012, 03:11:00 PM
Here! Here! :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Thumper Dunker on February 14, 2012, 03:26:00 PM
Post by: Thumper Dunker on February 14, 2012, 03:26:00 PM
:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :clapper: :clapper:
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: acolobowhunter on February 14, 2012, 03:45:00 PM
Post by: acolobowhunter on February 14, 2012, 03:45:00 PM
Looks like the rules and guidelines need to be explained. 27 pages of this thread is a little more than I have time to read.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: ishoot4thrills on February 14, 2012, 04:57:00 PM
Post by: ishoot4thrills on February 14, 2012, 04:57:00 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by Terry Green:Read the above clarification and I think you will better understand exactly what Terry is talkin' about guys.
I think a few...just a few have missed my point.
I am not talking about 'new stuff' on the market. New bows or bow materials, new string materials, arrow material, etc. etc.
I'm talking about a mentality of 'paralysis by analysis'. And, forgetting the most important basics of tuning and shooting, and the true lethality of the Trad Bow in the hands of a skilled and accurate woodsman. Missing the music for all the static. Even some new guys have posted here and on other posts that they are overwhelmed at all the tech chat that they themselves are confused.
That is my point.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: champ38 on February 14, 2012, 07:15:00 PM
Post by: champ38 on February 14, 2012, 07:15:00 PM
Terry, Your intuitive leadership is what makes this site different.Keep it up, Shane
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: m midd on February 14, 2012, 07:25:00 PM
Post by: m midd on February 14, 2012, 07:25:00 PM
Your post was spot on Terry.. Ive only been in traditonal archery for a few years.. I have learned alot thanks to this site.. Not so long ago i would read every thread on pow wow and either learn or give input if i could.. Now i just skim through and skip a lot of this vs that threads.. I think you and the other mods do a great job..
Thanks, Mike middlebrook
Thanks, Mike middlebrook
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: DennyK on February 14, 2012, 07:27:00 PM
Post by: DennyK on February 14, 2012, 07:27:00 PM
Terry, Nicely Put. :clapper:
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: soaring eagle on February 14, 2012, 08:23:00 PM
Post by: soaring eagle on February 14, 2012, 08:23:00 PM
the allure of traditional archery for me is the simplicity. you put a very sharp broadhead on a properly spined arrow and skillfully shoot it from your properly tuned bow. Im with Terry I dont care what you shoot. Is carbon better than wood? question should be is it spined properly for your bow? which broadhead is better? the sharp one.I have been away from the site for a while partly due to what I saw as a bit of stickbow elitism. we need to support each other be respectful of other peoples views and supportive of other peoples methods. lets not throw the ethics flag every time we disagree. sorry if I wandered off topic a bit
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: rraming on February 14, 2012, 08:37:00 PM
Post by: rraming on February 14, 2012, 08:37:00 PM
Sure sounds like popular mechanics with all the tuning questions lately. How about a sticky on tuning a bow, that should take care of them.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Catskill Longbow on February 14, 2012, 09:11:00 PM
Post by: Catskill Longbow on February 14, 2012, 09:11:00 PM
Wow-Sorry Terry but this is out of hand.
Even if it is somewhat primitive/traditional the way we hunt, if you don't tune your bow and equipment it's like going on tour with a three stringed guitar. 27 pages? We need something to talk about when it's off season!
Love this site!
Even if it is somewhat primitive/traditional the way we hunt, if you don't tune your bow and equipment it's like going on tour with a three stringed guitar. 27 pages? We need something to talk about when it's off season!
Love this site!
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Terry Green on February 14, 2012, 09:31:00 PM
Post by: Terry Green on February 14, 2012, 09:31:00 PM
Catskill....you have missed the point of this thread entirely...or, you have not read what I wrote or said. That is obvious since your statements have been addressed and what you stated is no where near what the purpose of this thread was.
Also, you missed that this thread is over 2 years old....we've been keeping in on track that long and you really didn't notice.
Again,....not sure why I have to say this OVER AN OVER...this is NOT about tuning your equipment!!!
Also, you missed that this thread is over 2 years old....we've been keeping in on track that long and you really didn't notice.
Again,....not sure why I have to say this OVER AN OVER...this is NOT about tuning your equipment!!!
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Terry Green on February 14, 2012, 09:48:00 PM
Post by: Terry Green on February 14, 2012, 09:48:00 PM
Smithhammer....Yeah, I pulled your post.
I wonder if I walked into your house and spouted off sarcastic smart a$$ remarks about how you were trying to keep your house in order if you would allow that or throw me out?
If you didn't throw me out....you surely wouldn't be much of a man.
I wonder if I walked into your house and spouted off sarcastic smart a$$ remarks about how you were trying to keep your house in order if you would allow that or throw me out?
If you didn't throw me out....you surely wouldn't be much of a man.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: KSdan on February 14, 2012, 10:38:00 PM
Post by: KSdan on February 14, 2012, 10:38:00 PM
Ok Terry. I think Gene from CO said it simply. . . but let me try again
Electronic stuff can really make a mess of communication. . . so first, I have NOTHING but great thoughts and appreciation for this site. It is a daily check for me and no other site like it! Brilliant, genius, and if the internet can provide a semi-community; this is my #1 pick.
Second- I think I have been around here a number of years, contributed, traded lots of stuff, met friends, had guys come hunt with me from here, and hopefully been a fellow gentleman and contributor to the discussion. . .
I have read this post and I am just still confused. Sorry- I just must be really dense. You obviously are passionate about wanting something out of this site that you feel is not occurring. But I really just do not get what that is. I am kind of sheepish now about bringing up discussions as I may be one of the "violators" of your vision and gut feelings- but I do not know.
Sorry dude- I still don't get the issue. I will keep trying. Since this is your site, I sure want to step into your vision as to what this is meant to be.
Maybe a list of just a couple of really poor posts and really good ones could helps us see.
Sorry for laboring this- I just want to be a good contributor to the discussion.
Thanks man
Dan Rudman
Electronic stuff can really make a mess of communication. . . so first, I have NOTHING but great thoughts and appreciation for this site. It is a daily check for me and no other site like it! Brilliant, genius, and if the internet can provide a semi-community; this is my #1 pick.
Second- I think I have been around here a number of years, contributed, traded lots of stuff, met friends, had guys come hunt with me from here, and hopefully been a fellow gentleman and contributor to the discussion. . .
I have read this post and I am just still confused. Sorry- I just must be really dense. You obviously are passionate about wanting something out of this site that you feel is not occurring. But I really just do not get what that is. I am kind of sheepish now about bringing up discussions as I may be one of the "violators" of your vision and gut feelings- but I do not know.
Sorry dude- I still don't get the issue. I will keep trying. Since this is your site, I sure want to step into your vision as to what this is meant to be.
Maybe a list of just a couple of really poor posts and really good ones could helps us see.
Sorry for laboring this- I just want to be a good contributor to the discussion.
Thanks man
Dan Rudman
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Nakohe on February 15, 2012, 08:30:00 AM
Post by: Nakohe on February 15, 2012, 08:30:00 AM
Terry, thank you for your diligence. I can not say how much I appreciate all you Admin's do. The way this site has grown over the years is astonishing and keeping it on track has to be a never ending job for you all, and I for one appreciated you reminding everyone what it is all about. Some seem to loose track of what Trad is all about. I have never hunted with compound and do not wish too, but do not knock those who do, but they can go to another site to discuss their views. Not here. I have hunted with powder, but gave that up to go all trad almost 5 years ago. I enjoy hunting more now. Just IMHO. I like all of us do get bummed out at times when I have a bad year, but all in all it has been well worth it. This site has helped me a lot and enjoy it daily. Thanks for all you do Terry
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Terry Green on February 15, 2012, 08:53:00 AM
Post by: Terry Green on February 15, 2012, 08:53:00 AM
KSDan....quit worrying....and go hunting. No need to labor over this....like I said earlier...this was started over 2 years ago for some problems we saw arising. This post addressed and STOPPED the problems...then it was resurrected last year for as the snake was raising its head again....and again, the problem stopped.
I see no reason why they wont stop now....some of the problems are not just topics, but people. People that want to argue just for the sake of arguing, to bait folks out, and then pounce on them for not buying into the snake oil.
We've even had folks here that have made the statement 'If you don't shoot what I say you should shoot, then you are un-ethical'. No one needs to deal with that type of mentality on this site. You should see the email I received last night. All Mr Professional on the public forum, but not so in his email to me. Most of these type folks can't help but show their colors sooner or later, and most do sooner.
Again, this is nothing new....nothing we haven't done before. And unlike what was stated way back by one individual(who is also no longer with us), someone we have more members and more sponsors despite his claims.
I see no reason why they wont stop now....some of the problems are not just topics, but people. People that want to argue just for the sake of arguing, to bait folks out, and then pounce on them for not buying into the snake oil.
We've even had folks here that have made the statement 'If you don't shoot what I say you should shoot, then you are un-ethical'. No one needs to deal with that type of mentality on this site. You should see the email I received last night. All Mr Professional on the public forum, but not so in his email to me. Most of these type folks can't help but show their colors sooner or later, and most do sooner.
Again, this is nothing new....nothing we haven't done before. And unlike what was stated way back by one individual(who is also no longer with us), someone we have more members and more sponsors despite his claims.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: lpcjon2 on February 15, 2012, 08:58:00 AM
Post by: lpcjon2 on February 15, 2012, 08:58:00 AM
I think most of the gang are thinking about this thread in a broad perspective.
Think of it as a baseball stadium, instead of looking at the size of the stadium, look at the essential parts. The bases,pitchers mound,infield,outfield, and the grass. Thats all you need to play the game. The concession stands and the seats and signage are just extra comforts.
All he is saying is that we have strayed away from the basic principles of hunting(woodsman ship, getting close,stalking techniques,stand placement,and basic how to's of hunting)and have edged are way to how can I get more out of what I have to make it easier to harvest the animal.
If you search the main forums there are forums for all kinds of stuff that most dont use. Its pretty simple, just get back to the roots of hunting with traditional equipment and become a better hunter with your skills and not compensate with the equipment.
When it comes down to the point of hunting its all about you, your skill,and the animal(nothing but you can get you close).These are the things that newbies and even oldies need, as we all grow past ourselves and become over confident in our equipment and rely on it way to much.Its time we rely on our own physical and mental skills as a woodsman!
Think of it as a baseball stadium, instead of looking at the size of the stadium, look at the essential parts. The bases,pitchers mound,infield,outfield, and the grass. Thats all you need to play the game. The concession stands and the seats and signage are just extra comforts.
All he is saying is that we have strayed away from the basic principles of hunting(woodsman ship, getting close,stalking techniques,stand placement,and basic how to's of hunting)and have edged are way to how can I get more out of what I have to make it easier to harvest the animal.
If you search the main forums there are forums for all kinds of stuff that most dont use. Its pretty simple, just get back to the roots of hunting with traditional equipment and become a better hunter with your skills and not compensate with the equipment.
When it comes down to the point of hunting its all about you, your skill,and the animal(nothing but you can get you close).These are the things that newbies and even oldies need, as we all grow past ourselves and become over confident in our equipment and rely on it way to much.Its time we rely on our own physical and mental skills as a woodsman!
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: b.glass on February 15, 2012, 09:21:00 AM
Post by: b.glass on February 15, 2012, 09:21:00 AM
I feel like I was invited to be here. It is a privilage not a right. If you don't like the rules then go else where. Simple as that.
If someone has worn out thier welcome by continually breaking the rules without reguard to the host then they SHOULD be asked to leave or made to leave. Not much unlike a previous comparison to someones home.
I went through the EFOC stage as well. Like a teenager I couldn't be told something, I had to find out for myself. I ended up taking something from the theory but not all of it.
I'm not sure how to get someone new to not ask these questions. Perhaps if we as older members remind them to use a search or talk with them through pm's. I have to admit I have been passing over those topics. I will start helping them by directing them to the person who I feel can help them the most.
If someone has worn out thier welcome by continually breaking the rules without reguard to the host then they SHOULD be asked to leave or made to leave. Not much unlike a previous comparison to someones home.
I went through the EFOC stage as well. Like a teenager I couldn't be told something, I had to find out for myself. I ended up taking something from the theory but not all of it.
I'm not sure how to get someone new to not ask these questions. Perhaps if we as older members remind them to use a search or talk with them through pm's. I have to admit I have been passing over those topics. I will start helping them by directing them to the person who I feel can help them the most.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: LoneWolf73 on February 15, 2012, 11:15:00 AM
Post by: LoneWolf73 on February 15, 2012, 11:15:00 AM
Have fun. Shoot arrows out of Traditional bows and watch them fly where you point. Not to complicated.
Thanks for steering the ship on this cruise.
Thanks for steering the ship on this cruise.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Gordon Jabben on February 15, 2012, 11:33:00 AM
Post by: Gordon Jabben on February 15, 2012, 11:33:00 AM
Thanks Terry for what you are doing. I had a post pulled once and later saw the reason for it. Since retirement, I have really had the time to enjoy this forum and thank you guys for it.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: BowHunterGA on February 15, 2012, 11:47:00 AM
Post by: BowHunterGA on February 15, 2012, 11:47:00 AM
QuoteOriginally posted by Terry Green:Terry your statement rings true about more than just TradGang. If more people would focus on keeping their own house and not their neighbors we would ALL be in a better place!
.......if I walked into your house and spouted off sarcastic smart a$$ remarks about how you were trying to keep your house in order if you would allow that or throw me out?
Just my two cents and not directed at anyone in particular. Please don't start flaming me thinking I am talking about you or your buddy. It is simply a general comment based on daily observations in life and much less to do with TradGang.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: rkelly on February 15, 2012, 12:14:00 PM
Post by: rkelly on February 15, 2012, 12:14:00 PM
Terry:
No apology necessary.
No apology necessary.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: customcrester on February 15, 2012, 12:24:00 PM
Post by: customcrester on February 15, 2012, 12:24:00 PM
Amen Terry! I agree 100% with that! For me 2012 is about self improvement and just shooting the bow and not worrying about my equipment. I say find a arrow that shoots decent and just shoot the things and have FUN!
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: tuscarawasbowman on February 15, 2012, 12:50:00 PM
Post by: tuscarawasbowman on February 15, 2012, 12:50:00 PM
I don't get what all the arguing is about. This is a FREE site that is run by several good guys. They just want to see it run right. As my dad used to say "Just shut up and follow the rules". I don't get what's so hard about that....
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: snakebit40 on February 15, 2012, 01:06:00 PM
Post by: snakebit40 on February 15, 2012, 01:06:00 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by tuscarawasbowman:Yep! I love TradGang and I'm very appreciative of all the admins. I don't know if I'll ever be able to give back all that I have gained from here. But I will try :thumbsup: :notworthy: :campfire:
I don't get what all the arguing is about. This is a FREE site that is run by several good guys. They just want to see it run right. As my dad used to say "Just shut up and follow the rules". I don't get what's so hard about that....
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: PaddyMac on February 15, 2012, 02:32:00 PM
Post by: PaddyMac on February 15, 2012, 02:32:00 PM
I like the fact that the site isn't over regulated and that people are perfectly free to wander off into the poison ivy of foolish statements now and then, as I've done a couple of times (or so) and have been respectfully and politely and even good-humoredly been so informed. It's one of the ways I know I'm not among knotheads.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: mongoose on February 15, 2012, 04:07:00 PM
Post by: mongoose on February 15, 2012, 04:07:00 PM
:thumbsup: :campfire:
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: sticbow on February 15, 2012, 04:30:00 PM
Post by: sticbow on February 15, 2012, 04:30:00 PM
Thank you.. :thumbsup: :thumbsup: its not only Trad Gang..i even see a Trad archey supply heading in the same "tech" way...it really bothers me..i will just choose to go else where with other sponsor's
Scott
Scott
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Aggie1993 on February 15, 2012, 04:33:00 PM
Post by: Aggie1993 on February 15, 2012, 04:33:00 PM
:thumbsup:
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Ulysseys on February 15, 2012, 05:18:00 PM
Post by: Ulysseys on February 15, 2012, 05:18:00 PM
Best post I read in a long time...its the constant equipment talk that pushed me away from other sites and on to this one
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Ari on February 15, 2012, 06:18:00 PM
Post by: Ari on February 15, 2012, 06:18:00 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by pavan:I think that goes in the shooters forum? :laughing:
So I guess that explaining how I use my swing draw form to start my snow blower would not be appropriate?
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Dave McDaniel on February 15, 2012, 06:40:00 PM
Post by: Dave McDaniel on February 15, 2012, 06:40:00 PM
Right On!
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: tradgreenhorn on February 15, 2012, 07:17:00 PM
Post by: tradgreenhorn on February 15, 2012, 07:17:00 PM
Thanks for keeping it Trad TERRY.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Terry Green on February 15, 2012, 08:34:00 PM
Post by: Terry Green on February 15, 2012, 08:34:00 PM
Thanks for the support guys.
Again, this thread is over two years old, and it seems its more of a problem for a few now than it has been since I penned it.
I've also been accused of editing all but positive posts, and that is not true. The only posts I've deleted were two posts a day ago that were the type of posts that would have been removed from any other thread had it been posted elsewhere. Types that were attacking me personally and the administration of this site. All the rest are still here.
Just trying to keep the site on track as it was 1st visioned....
Thanks again for all the posts and emails of support. Trad Gang is gonna stay Trad Gang as long as I am alive. And, arraignments have been made to leave it in good hands if I'm not.
:campfire:
Again, this thread is over two years old, and it seems its more of a problem for a few now than it has been since I penned it.
I've also been accused of editing all but positive posts, and that is not true. The only posts I've deleted were two posts a day ago that were the type of posts that would have been removed from any other thread had it been posted elsewhere. Types that were attacking me personally and the administration of this site. All the rest are still here.
Just trying to keep the site on track as it was 1st visioned....
Thanks again for all the posts and emails of support. Trad Gang is gonna stay Trad Gang as long as I am alive. And, arraignments have been made to leave it in good hands if I'm not.
:campfire:
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: sswv on February 15, 2012, 08:42:00 PM
Post by: sswv on February 15, 2012, 08:42:00 PM
bottom line Terry. you own the playing field and you make the rules. the rest of us are just guest so, we play by the rules or, we play somewhere else.
thanks for a great site :thumbsup:
thanks for a great site :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: captain caveman on February 15, 2012, 08:47:00 PM
Post by: captain caveman on February 15, 2012, 08:47:00 PM
Thanks for being sensitive to this issue was feeling it too but hadn't formalized it into a coherent thought took the words out of my mouth. Breath of fresh air. My favorite thing about trad is the simplicity. Don't think native Americans had consistently spined arrows When I get bogged down with too much technical info my brain starts to hurt. All that said I don't want to be too hard on the technical guys I like having them available when I have such questions. I just usually skip over those thread unless it is something I'm having trouble with. Thanks for keeping us in line.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Catskill Longbow on February 15, 2012, 09:28:00 PM
Post by: Catskill Longbow on February 15, 2012, 09:28:00 PM
Terry,
I think we both misunderstood each other. I read a lot of the first pages of this thread and alot of the latter pages and came away feeling like you did not want us to discuss the fine tuning of our equipment. This was based on guys posting that newbies ask too many questions that shouldn't be asked and need a place to look for the answers. I realized it was a revived thread and was wondering why it needed so much new life.
I did not pick up the point about arguing and jamming your opinions down other peoples throats. This is something I totally agree with, but can't say I see alot of it here on TradGang. Before I found this site I frequented another well known trad site and that bs was rampant. You guys do a great job keeping this site the best on the web and if that problem is here I haven't been reading those threads. Sorry for missing the basis of this thread.
I think we both misunderstood each other. I read a lot of the first pages of this thread and alot of the latter pages and came away feeling like you did not want us to discuss the fine tuning of our equipment. This was based on guys posting that newbies ask too many questions that shouldn't be asked and need a place to look for the answers. I realized it was a revived thread and was wondering why it needed so much new life.
I did not pick up the point about arguing and jamming your opinions down other peoples throats. This is something I totally agree with, but can't say I see alot of it here on TradGang. Before I found this site I frequented another well known trad site and that bs was rampant. You guys do a great job keeping this site the best on the web and if that problem is here I haven't been reading those threads. Sorry for missing the basis of this thread.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Terry Green on February 15, 2012, 09:45:00 PM
Post by: Terry Green on February 15, 2012, 09:45:00 PM
No worries Catskill. ..... :campfire:
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: ChrisM on February 15, 2012, 09:53:00 PM
Post by: ChrisM on February 15, 2012, 09:53:00 PM
Honestly I came to this site after a drove of jerks got booted from here and started being jerks on the site I was visiting. They got to stay so I went where they wern't welcome. I like not having to worry avout being flamed no matter what was said.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: JamesKerr on February 15, 2012, 09:55:00 PM
Post by: JamesKerr on February 15, 2012, 09:55:00 PM
Terry, I totally agree with you. This is your house and I try to abide by the rules. I hope that if I ever post anything that is off that you or one of the other moderators will set it straight to keep this place what it is. I am kinda new to this site and appreciate how much respect there is here.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: KSdan on February 16, 2012, 12:12:00 AM
Post by: KSdan on February 16, 2012, 12:12:00 AM
Thanks Terry. Back at it. . . no worries. Great place.
Dan
Dan
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: charles m on February 16, 2012, 08:48:00 AM
Post by: charles m on February 16, 2012, 08:48:00 AM
Stay the course!!!
I think maybe the issue with 'a few' being more upset is because on another site lately there was a big brew-ha-ha about this. The administration basically came on and stated that the group was like a cult. So, that probably had them pissed when they read this.
I like this site because its about Trad Bowhunting, not any one individual, or group of individuals. In my opinion, this is the reason this site has continued to grow like it has. :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
I think maybe the issue with 'a few' being more upset is because on another site lately there was a big brew-ha-ha about this. The administration basically came on and stated that the group was like a cult. So, that probably had them pissed when they read this.
I like this site because its about Trad Bowhunting, not any one individual, or group of individuals. In my opinion, this is the reason this site has continued to grow like it has. :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: coachA on February 16, 2012, 10:10:00 AM
Post by: coachA on February 16, 2012, 10:10:00 AM
I agree that most of the posts on here have been about equipment issues and i really think that they help a lot of people. I also thing that we all could use some help with strategy too. Would it be possible to have a category for both in the main forum. If you can do this, I believe that we all could be satified. Just my opinion. love this site and the people I have met through it.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Adrian Farmer on February 16, 2012, 10:27:00 AM
Post by: Adrian Farmer on February 16, 2012, 10:27:00 AM
Terry:
I agree with your perception, conceptually. Clearly we all should be focused on improving our shooting and hunting skills, and not so much on new gadgetry. But, I do not think that it will be easy to constain the discussions in any meaningful way (but perhaps you have a solution!).
I am and have been a traditional bowhunter for more than 40 years. I just purchased a new recurve this year and am going through a new rebirth period, adjusting to my new bow, testing different arrows, trying to decide on arrow mass, FOC, etc. All of this is very much fun, especially when there is not much to hunt right now in Colordo. However, when September comes, I will be ready.
Now, which questions might I be able to ask, under some new editorial policy, concerning my new bow setup, arrow choices, etc? I am not trying to be critical, rather I am concerned that this is a slippery slope issue.
I agree with your perception, conceptually. Clearly we all should be focused on improving our shooting and hunting skills, and not so much on new gadgetry. But, I do not think that it will be easy to constain the discussions in any meaningful way (but perhaps you have a solution!).
I am and have been a traditional bowhunter for more than 40 years. I just purchased a new recurve this year and am going through a new rebirth period, adjusting to my new bow, testing different arrows, trying to decide on arrow mass, FOC, etc. All of this is very much fun, especially when there is not much to hunt right now in Colordo. However, when September comes, I will be ready.
Now, which questions might I be able to ask, under some new editorial policy, concerning my new bow setup, arrow choices, etc? I am not trying to be critical, rather I am concerned that this is a slippery slope issue.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: longbowman on February 16, 2012, 02:31:00 PM
Post by: longbowman on February 16, 2012, 02:31:00 PM
I have to say "FINALLY". I always feel like I'm looking in a "Bowhunter Magazine" any more when I read "My foam core, reflex, defelx m98xl345, ilf limbed bow needs 50% more F.O.C. so my right handed, single beveled broadhead on my mrx55692 graphite arrow wil fly straight.!"
I came here because there were people like me who thought the archery world needed less of that and more of the pure enjoyment of you against the beast with a stick and string.
Thank you for posting and making a difference.
I came here because there were people like me who thought the archery world needed less of that and more of the pure enjoyment of you against the beast with a stick and string.
Thank you for posting and making a difference.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Bowwild on February 16, 2012, 03:08:00 PM
Post by: Bowwild on February 16, 2012, 03:08:00 PM
Once one settles on the equipment they will use it can get simple again. I like knowing the ins and outs of every smidgeon of my archery passion.
I have found my arrow. I have found my broadhead. I know my quiver preference. It wasn't necessarily simple getting here but for me its cookie-cutter now.
The diversity of opinions, dislikes and likes here is tremendous. I like the way most folks describe these. Most are eager to discuss the things the like which I think is great. Few will describe what they don't like which I think is respectful of those with different opinions.
For instance.
I have a very strong preference for one type of bow.
I won't even consider arrows made from certain materials.
Certain clothing threads (wow, that's a pun) won't attract my attention at all.
Certain types of hunting fails to turn my crank.
I have found my arrow. I have found my broadhead. I know my quiver preference. It wasn't necessarily simple getting here but for me its cookie-cutter now.
The diversity of opinions, dislikes and likes here is tremendous. I like the way most folks describe these. Most are eager to discuss the things the like which I think is great. Few will describe what they don't like which I think is respectful of those with different opinions.
For instance.
I have a very strong preference for one type of bow.
I won't even consider arrows made from certain materials.
Certain clothing threads (wow, that's a pun) won't attract my attention at all.
Certain types of hunting fails to turn my crank.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Sam McMichael on February 16, 2012, 03:39:00 PM
Post by: Sam McMichael on February 16, 2012, 03:39:00 PM
Aw, the technical stuff doesn't really bother me. What the hell, I'm not smart enough to understand most of it anyway. However, to some guys the technical journey, is extremely important, even with trad gear. They may use a very complex means of settling on equipment, but in the end it usually works out to be very trad and quite simple. Perhaps a category for "Tech Talk" could be added so that those of us who are more simplistic won't have to filter through threads that are over our heads. In all seriousness, though, I see both sides of this issue and agree with both sides - yes I am a bit conflicted, but that is just part of the fun. Don't be too harsh on these guys for the simplicity is actually a learned thing and not necessarily an automatic response.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Michigan Mark on February 16, 2012, 03:45:00 PM
Post by: Michigan Mark on February 16, 2012, 03:45:00 PM
I agreed to the rules before I joined as all who are members. As cut and pasted from:
Posting Rules.
The fundamental concern of any online forum is keeping the posts/talk on-track and in line with the forum's "prime directive" - at Trad Gang, we're all about traditional bowhunting and we make that quite clear to all.
We're all humans, and we know how easy it can be to lose focus about the sharing of trad bowhunting info - we'll do our best to redirect that focus back to good stuff where we see fit.
We know that the Trad Gang cyber camp can, and has, become like family - and we understand that families are sociable and at times the posting can sway over to matters that are more chit-chat than trad bowhunting. We try to leave that be as much as possible.
Any forum post - whether it's a topic thread or a reply post within a topic thread - will most likely get deleted, or moved elsewhere, if it's about non-trad bowhunting topics that are clearly centered towards politics, sports, religion, crossbows, wheelbows ... you get the drift.
Any and all posts that are bashing, flaming, nasty, talk about a classifieds deal gone bad, and just plain ol' disrespectful - as the admin and moderators determine - will also get cut or moved.
"Working the board" - we do not allow any non Trad Gang sponsor members to use Trad Gang as a vehicle for promoting product or services sales. ANY posting by any member who is not a Trad Gang sponsor, that concerns any gear they are making or services they render, for profit - or any innuendos that might suggest such gear or services are being offered, is strictly forbidden. Such posting is liable to be deleted and that poster's Trad Gang membership may be revoked.
NO posted links to any other forums.
Moderating any forum is a *very* tough, but extremely necessary daily job.
We certainly try our very best, always - if you have a question about Trad Gang posting policies, or if you feel we've failed to let you know why your post was removed or transferred, contact any admin or moderator ASAP.
Thanx for your good understanding - and for sharing with all of us here at Trad Gang!
Your hosts,
Terry Green
Rob DiStefano
Posting Rules.
The fundamental concern of any online forum is keeping the posts/talk on-track and in line with the forum's "prime directive" - at Trad Gang, we're all about traditional bowhunting and we make that quite clear to all.
We're all humans, and we know how easy it can be to lose focus about the sharing of trad bowhunting info - we'll do our best to redirect that focus back to good stuff where we see fit.
We know that the Trad Gang cyber camp can, and has, become like family - and we understand that families are sociable and at times the posting can sway over to matters that are more chit-chat than trad bowhunting. We try to leave that be as much as possible.
Any forum post - whether it's a topic thread or a reply post within a topic thread - will most likely get deleted, or moved elsewhere, if it's about non-trad bowhunting topics that are clearly centered towards politics, sports, religion, crossbows, wheelbows ... you get the drift.
Any and all posts that are bashing, flaming, nasty, talk about a classifieds deal gone bad, and just plain ol' disrespectful - as the admin and moderators determine - will also get cut or moved.
"Working the board" - we do not allow any non Trad Gang sponsor members to use Trad Gang as a vehicle for promoting product or services sales. ANY posting by any member who is not a Trad Gang sponsor, that concerns any gear they are making or services they render, for profit - or any innuendos that might suggest such gear or services are being offered, is strictly forbidden. Such posting is liable to be deleted and that poster's Trad Gang membership may be revoked.
NO posted links to any other forums.
Moderating any forum is a *very* tough, but extremely necessary daily job.
We certainly try our very best, always - if you have a question about Trad Gang posting policies, or if you feel we've failed to let you know why your post was removed or transferred, contact any admin or moderator ASAP.
Thanx for your good understanding - and for sharing with all of us here at Trad Gang!
Your hosts,
Terry Green
Rob DiStefano
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: gringol on February 16, 2012, 03:54:00 PM
Post by: gringol on February 16, 2012, 03:54:00 PM
I think you found the nut, Sam. We live in a very complicated, technically driven world, and keeping things simple is a struggle. It sounds like that's why Terry started this site. I think Terry is right to try to rein in the tech stuff, and I don't think he is too harsh. There are a couple of threads going right now that are a bit too techie for me, but Terry hasn't beat up on those guys. Based on some of the recent posts I think the topic starter has actually concluded that he has made things more complicated than necessary. That's what it's all about, finding your way to simple.
In today's world simple is hard to do, which is exactly why we all love trad hunting, and everyone finds their way to simplicity by a different route. Some of us may need a nudge in the right direction sometimes. I know it helps me.
Keep it up Terry. This site is bitchin.
In today's world simple is hard to do, which is exactly why we all love trad hunting, and everyone finds their way to simplicity by a different route. Some of us may need a nudge in the right direction sometimes. I know it helps me.
Keep it up Terry. This site is bitchin.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: zipper bowss on February 16, 2012, 04:20:00 PM
Post by: zipper bowss on February 16, 2012, 04:20:00 PM
It should be fairly obvious that I really enjoy this site. I post here often and even after a long day I still come here to read hunting stories as well as too see how others approach this thing we call traditional archery. For the most part the folks here are as good as they get! I have made several dear friends from being involved with tradgang and I absolutely appreciate this site and all the work that goes into it. That is both hosting and moderating it. I think that running my own businesses has given me a pretty good idea what it takes to keep a monster like this site going.
I am one who believes that there are no 100% right answers for everyone in every situation. What I mean is what works for me will not work for everyone. It would be silly to expect it too. I don't understand why anyone would want to deprive another of the opportunity to learn something new and then make up their own mind if it is in fact right for them or not. I will admit that I do not read every thread. I have not read all of this one, because as I said I have a business to run also. That being said anyone who comes here with an agenda of this is the only way to approach traditional archery is just kidding themselves. If that were the case there would only be one bow being built, one type of arrow available and only one broadhead produced.
I have to say I am a little confused and frankly a little concerned by this thread. I don't know maybe I just don't understand what it is really all about. I hope that is the situation.
One of my businesses is building custom bows. I use carbon in most of my limbs. I also use foam in most of my limbs. Not because I just enjoy spending money on these items but because that is what my customers want. I also build ILF risers and ILF limbs. Is this techy? Another of my businesses is manufacturing broadheads. Some of those broadheads are single bevel and have been around since 1984. Have I misread this situation or are these not some of the items that are under fire from this thread? Please tell me I'm wrong!
I really want to hope that I am missing the point of this thread and someone will help me understand. I would hate to think that the place that I have come to enjoy so much no longer has a place for me. I have not felt this gutted since my favorite hunting property was clear cut on Nov. 1st .
Help me understand. So I can get back to work!
Bill
I am one who believes that there are no 100% right answers for everyone in every situation. What I mean is what works for me will not work for everyone. It would be silly to expect it too. I don't understand why anyone would want to deprive another of the opportunity to learn something new and then make up their own mind if it is in fact right for them or not. I will admit that I do not read every thread. I have not read all of this one, because as I said I have a business to run also. That being said anyone who comes here with an agenda of this is the only way to approach traditional archery is just kidding themselves. If that were the case there would only be one bow being built, one type of arrow available and only one broadhead produced.
I have to say I am a little confused and frankly a little concerned by this thread. I don't know maybe I just don't understand what it is really all about. I hope that is the situation.
One of my businesses is building custom bows. I use carbon in most of my limbs. I also use foam in most of my limbs. Not because I just enjoy spending money on these items but because that is what my customers want. I also build ILF risers and ILF limbs. Is this techy? Another of my businesses is manufacturing broadheads. Some of those broadheads are single bevel and have been around since 1984. Have I misread this situation or are these not some of the items that are under fire from this thread? Please tell me I'm wrong!
I really want to hope that I am missing the point of this thread and someone will help me understand. I would hate to think that the place that I have come to enjoy so much no longer has a place for me. I have not felt this gutted since my favorite hunting property was clear cut on Nov. 1st .
Help me understand. So I can get back to work!
Bill
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Terry Green on February 16, 2012, 04:50:00 PM
Post by: Terry Green on February 16, 2012, 04:50:00 PM
Bill....do you realize this thread is over 2 years old???
Have all of the thread topics you just mentioned been here during the last 2 years?
No need to feel gutted..... :campfire:
Have all of the thread topics you just mentioned been here during the last 2 years?
No need to feel gutted..... :campfire:
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: zipper bowss on February 16, 2012, 05:11:00 PM
Post by: zipper bowss on February 16, 2012, 05:11:00 PM
I don't understand your questions? It was brought back up on feb. 13 2012. This is Feb. 16 and it has grown form 23 pages to 30. I'm just trying to make since of this and not having any luck.
I'm going back to work.
I'm going back to work.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: heydeerman on February 16, 2012, 05:18:00 PM
Post by: heydeerman on February 16, 2012, 05:18:00 PM
I gotta be honest none if this makes any sense to me going from the first page to the last. Seems like there is a problem with folks asking tech questions?? Am I missing something or just too lazy to read 30 pages of messages?
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Terry Green on February 16, 2012, 05:33:00 PM
Post by: Terry Green on February 16, 2012, 05:33:00 PM
Jim....this is your original post on this thread...
QuoteOriginally posted by heydeerman:
Terry,
The things you state in your original post have been the reason I have become a lurker on here for the most part. I have not posted much for the last year or so. I agree with you but what can a guy do to change what people are talking about?
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: emac396 on February 16, 2012, 05:40:00 PM
Post by: emac396 on February 16, 2012, 05:40:00 PM
All I know is I really like it here, only problem is I am on here to darn much.
Ed
Ed
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Terry Green on February 16, 2012, 05:44:00 PM
Post by: Terry Green on February 16, 2012, 05:44:00 PM
I'm not sure why this thread being brought up has cause so much confusion THIS time more so than the last two times...when it originated back in 2110, and was brought back up in 2011.
No matter the case, folks have concerns that are not what I am talking about.
I have tried and tried to get my point across, and I now realize I just can't get it across to everyone. Some folks are seeing monsters, and there are none.
Again, this thread is over TWO years old, so, what you have seen in the last two years is what you will continue to see. I don't know what else to say other than this is going to be a hunting forum, and it will not be over taken by a barrage of redundancy tech type threads, or the compound tech mentality....which is what I said two years ago.
I am going to close this thread now, and if anyone had any concerns, they can contact me.
Again, what you have seen over the last two years is what you will continue to see....basically, nothing has changed cause we've been keeping it under wraps since Feb 2010.
No matter the case, folks have concerns that are not what I am talking about.
I have tried and tried to get my point across, and I now realize I just can't get it across to everyone. Some folks are seeing monsters, and there are none.
Again, this thread is over TWO years old, so, what you have seen in the last two years is what you will continue to see. I don't know what else to say other than this is going to be a hunting forum, and it will not be over taken by a barrage of redundancy tech type threads, or the compound tech mentality....which is what I said two years ago.
I am going to close this thread now, and if anyone had any concerns, they can contact me.
Again, what you have seen over the last two years is what you will continue to see....basically, nothing has changed cause we've been keeping it under wraps since Feb 2010.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Terry Green on February 16, 2012, 08:15:00 PM
Post by: Terry Green on February 16, 2012, 08:15:00 PM
After chatting with several folk on the phone and email.....I think those folks have much more of a clear understanding of what this thread was about....and that it was just a reminder of what we have been doing since this thread was started.
That this is NOT some 'new' policy, but one that we are continuing to carry out since the snake reared it head a few years back.
I have also received a couple of emails from folks apologizing for their comments at they were seeing monsters that weren't there. I have edited my comment to EMT as he was one that emailed me this evening.
Again, I don't know why this thread caused issues this time around, but I'm glad the issues have been calmed as it has about wore me out explaining.
I think one other thing we should learn from this thread is, when the thread becomes too long folks may not take the time, which I can understand, to read other posts and not get the point of the original post, and...not to panic and think the sky is falling at Trad Gang.
:campfire: :campfire: :campfire:
That this is NOT some 'new' policy, but one that we are continuing to carry out since the snake reared it head a few years back.
I have also received a couple of emails from folks apologizing for their comments at they were seeing monsters that weren't there. I have edited my comment to EMT as he was one that emailed me this evening.
Again, I don't know why this thread caused issues this time around, but I'm glad the issues have been calmed as it has about wore me out explaining.
I think one other thing we should learn from this thread is, when the thread becomes too long folks may not take the time, which I can understand, to read other posts and not get the point of the original post, and...not to panic and think the sky is falling at Trad Gang.
:campfire: :campfire: :campfire:
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: lpcjon2 on February 16, 2012, 08:39:00 PM
Post by: lpcjon2 on February 16, 2012, 08:39:00 PM
:thumbsup: :campfire:
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: heydeerman on February 16, 2012, 08:58:00 PM
Post by: heydeerman on February 16, 2012, 08:58:00 PM
Terry.....just call me lazy. I'll get off here now. :smileystooges:
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Archie on February 16, 2012, 09:08:00 PM
Post by: Archie on February 16, 2012, 09:08:00 PM
I enjoy TradGang, and have learned a lot through it. There are a lot of decent, helpful people, and some -- whom I've never posted or talked to -- are becoming bowhunting role models for me in some way or another.
I'll stick with TG. Even if there were techie info that I felt I needed, I could always get it somewhere else. There's a LOT of information to be found on this here worldwide web. As well as my longbow, I shoot a recurve with sights, and am more likely to dress like G.I. Joe than Grizzly Adams when hunting, but I still enjoy the simple things that I read about on TG.
So, I like it that TG administration is trying to point people toward tuning their skills instead of focusing too much on the inanimate equipment of the sport.
I'll stick with TG. Even if there were techie info that I felt I needed, I could always get it somewhere else. There's a LOT of information to be found on this here worldwide web. As well as my longbow, I shoot a recurve with sights, and am more likely to dress like G.I. Joe than Grizzly Adams when hunting, but I still enjoy the simple things that I read about on TG.
So, I like it that TG administration is trying to point people toward tuning their skills instead of focusing too much on the inanimate equipment of the sport.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: wingnut on February 16, 2012, 11:26:00 PM
Post by: wingnut on February 16, 2012, 11:26:00 PM
Terry,
It's not the original posts that are of concern it's the direction it gone. Comments about the use of carbon,foam, ILF as being high tech and not allowed are of concern to those of us that sponsor this site and make our living building those very bows. I think I'm with Bill on this one.
Mike
It's not the original posts that are of concern it's the direction it gone. Comments about the use of carbon,foam, ILF as being high tech and not allowed are of concern to those of us that sponsor this site and make our living building those very bows. I think I'm with Bill on this one.
Mike
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Roger Norris on February 17, 2012, 06:58:00 AM
Post by: Roger Norris on February 17, 2012, 06:58:00 AM
I am the least technical bow shooter on this site, guaranteed. Even with my relationship with Shrew Bows, I couldn't tell you a dang thing about building a bow, and I don't care.
If a bowyer wants to clog his website full of technical stuff like foam, carbon, and whatever the heck, have at it. But I sure don't read it here.
I applaud Terry and crew for desiring to keep this a TRADITIONAL bowhunting site. I have enough HIGH TECH in my life, and come here.....or go to my longbows....for a few SIMPLE moments.
Again...I'm pretty simple...archery to me is about wood, leather, snow, the smell of the woods.
Terry and his guys run this website at great expense to themselves. I appreciate thier occasional hardline as to what it's content will be.
If a bowyer wants to clog his website full of technical stuff like foam, carbon, and whatever the heck, have at it. But I sure don't read it here.
I applaud Terry and crew for desiring to keep this a TRADITIONAL bowhunting site. I have enough HIGH TECH in my life, and come here.....or go to my longbows....for a few SIMPLE moments.
Again...I'm pretty simple...archery to me is about wood, leather, snow, the smell of the woods.
Terry and his guys run this website at great expense to themselves. I appreciate thier occasional hardline as to what it's content will be.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: HuronArcher on February 17, 2012, 08:01:00 AM
Post by: HuronArcher on February 17, 2012, 08:01:00 AM
Terry, enjoyed reading your post. Your reasoning reminded me of the moment I thought about trad hunting. One Sept. afternoon, my son and I were in some tall grass next to an apple tree scouting the field when a nice 6pt worked it's way towards us. The wind was perfect and the deer feed on hay as it worked it's way towards us and the apples. With my son between me and the deer, I wispered to hold tight and let's see how close he will get. Well that deer came within spitting distance before it scented us, looked us square in the eye and bolted. I looked at my kid after I put his heart back in his chest, and said we could of killed that deer with a spear. That was the moment that I put the compound up and decided to learn about trad hunting on the ground. I've not taken a deer this way as of yet, but I surely enjoy the challenge. Thanks for a great site.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: atatarpm on February 17, 2012, 09:07:00 AM
Post by: atatarpm on February 17, 2012, 09:07:00 AM
I studied archery for several years before deciding to even buy a bow. I settled on traditional because those that I considered to be the best were shooting traditional. No gadits of other things like that just a stick and string. They themselves were where the differances were made.
I fround out there was far more to archery then I knew and there were far fewer people that I knew or had access to who knew anything about trad gear. So for me the journey started for several years on my own and through books I could buy.
A few years ago I learned about Trad Gang and joined up.I learned of things here that I read but could not really put into operation until I started reading the tecnical stuff as some would call it. To those who wish to say things like "you could join an archery club to learn that" I would like to say that I spend 340 days a years on the road. Do I shoot targets and targets only? Yes because to me if I don't have time to eat it then I don't the time to kill it!
Until now I have kep the target part to myself and not brought it up at all in any of my post on TG
Am totally cought up in the equipment part of trad. No. But I do love it and the journey to make it the best I can ,and in doing so I hope that along the way I improve myself also.
I have watched and gained a lot of respect for some people here. Two of them are Terry Green and Rob Sep.
Closing this yes I do chase after the best equipment I can get . My thought there is that once it's tuned and arrow flight is dart like then the only other thing I have to work on is the nut behind the string.
I fround out there was far more to archery then I knew and there were far fewer people that I knew or had access to who knew anything about trad gear. So for me the journey started for several years on my own and through books I could buy.
A few years ago I learned about Trad Gang and joined up.I learned of things here that I read but could not really put into operation until I started reading the tecnical stuff as some would call it. To those who wish to say things like "you could join an archery club to learn that" I would like to say that I spend 340 days a years on the road. Do I shoot targets and targets only? Yes because to me if I don't have time to eat it then I don't the time to kill it!
Until now I have kep the target part to myself and not brought it up at all in any of my post on TG
Am totally cought up in the equipment part of trad. No. But I do love it and the journey to make it the best I can ,and in doing so I hope that along the way I improve myself also.
I have watched and gained a lot of respect for some people here. Two of them are Terry Green and Rob Sep.
Closing this yes I do chase after the best equipment I can get . My thought there is that once it's tuned and arrow flight is dart like then the only other thing I have to work on is the nut behind the string.
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: on February 17, 2012, 09:10:00 AM
Post by: on February 17, 2012, 09:10:00 AM
:deadhorse:
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Terry Green on February 17, 2012, 09:19:00 AM
Post by: Terry Green on February 17, 2012, 09:19:00 AM
QuoteOriginally posted by wingnut:Again, don't know what else to say....you did NOT read where I said anything of the sort, ...don't know why you think I did. Why are you accusing me saying 'Comments about the use of carbon,foam, ILF as being high tech and not allowed'?
Terry,
It's not the original posts that are of concern it's the direction it gone. Comments about the use of carbon,foam, ILF as being high tech and not allowed are of concern to those of us that sponsor this site and make our living building those very bows. I think I'm with Bill on this one.
Mike
I just posted on a foam core thread a couple of days ago.
I talked to Bill yesterday and he now gets it.
AND AGAIN....I said this is nothing NEW!!!
I give up..... :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: gringol on February 17, 2012, 09:29:00 AM
Post by: gringol on February 17, 2012, 09:29:00 AM
Terry,
Maybe this thread has run it's course and needs to be deleted...Keep doing what you've been doing to keep things on the right track behind the scenes. We are all on this site because we like it, so clearly you've been doing something right.
I'm tired of following this thread, but I can't look away. It's like a horrible train-wreck...
Maybe this thread has run it's course and needs to be deleted...Keep doing what you've been doing to keep things on the right track behind the scenes. We are all on this site because we like it, so clearly you've been doing something right.
I'm tired of following this thread, but I can't look away. It's like a horrible train-wreck...
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: sswv on February 17, 2012, 09:37:00 AM
Post by: sswv on February 17, 2012, 09:37:00 AM
you can please all the people some of the time...
some of the people all of the time....
but you'll never please all the people all the time.
:deadhorse: :deadhorse:
some of the people all of the time....
but you'll never please all the people all the time.
:deadhorse: :deadhorse:
Title: Re: Trad Gang is not Popular Mechanics - UPDATE page 30
Post by: Terry Green on February 17, 2012, 10:16:00 AM
Post by: Terry Green on February 17, 2012, 10:16:00 AM
Sorry....meant to lock this one after my last post.