Trad Gang

Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: shortstroke 91 on February 13, 2012, 08:17:00 PM

Title: Am I the only one who shoots underspined arrows better?
Post by: shortstroke 91 on February 13, 2012, 08:17:00 PM
Let me start with specs, I shoot a #46 @ 29" Kanati with a 12 strand B-50 string and 3 under. I get the best flight with full length GT 35/55 and 250 grain heads and also 11/32 #50 32" cedars with 190 grain heads. If I use Stu's charts I'm way underspined but these set ups fly great both with broadheads and bareshafts, and hit where I'm looking. I've been told with my set up I should be shooting near #65 woodies but they all hit way left (right handed) to where I'm aiming. Am I an exception to the norm or are there others out there like me?
Title: Re: Am I the only one who shoots underspined arrows better?
Post by: Jake Diebolt on February 13, 2012, 08:57:00 PM
I think a lot of people shoot weak shafts better. With a finger release the arrow paradox is accentuated, and an arrow that flexes easier is more forgiving to a finger release.
Title: Re: Am I the only one who shoots underspined arrows better?
Post by: OBXarcher on February 13, 2012, 09:27:00 PM
Nope you are not alone. I shoot basically the same arrow from my bows and they range from 48-53 # @ 28

By the calc I am 15# under spined. They fly great with broad heads.
Title: Re: Am I the only one who shoots underspined arrows better?
Post by: m midd on February 13, 2012, 09:32:00 PM
X2
Title: Re: Am I the only one who shoots underspined arrows better?
Post by: m midd on February 13, 2012, 09:35:00 PM
My best shooting arrows are 55-60 cedar 29" with a 125 snuffer and 125 woodyweights from a 63# longbow
Title: Re: Am I the only one who shoots underspined arrows better?
Post by: rastaman on February 13, 2012, 09:36:00 PM
I guess the ultimate test would be do they result in game being brought to the freezer? If so, then I would say don't worry about it.
Title: Re: Am I the only one who shoots underspined arrows better?
Post by: xtrema312 on February 13, 2012, 09:36:00 PM
If it bare shafts right and shoots well I don't think it is week. Sound like it is about right.

I shot a Kanati 46@28 with 29+ draw the other day. Shot my 31" 5575 with 275 up front close to tuned. That was with 8 strand FF sting and no silences.  About 18# under spine per calculator if I got the center cut right.  

You have a B50 string and probably silencers. that will reduce performance some.  GT 3555's are only 30" full length. I am not that surprised it shoots well for you.
Title: Re: Am I the only one who shoots underspined arrows better?
Post by: Red Beastmaster on February 13, 2012, 09:49:00 PM
The popular opinion 20 years ago was to shoot arrows spined 10-15lbs heavier than the bows draw wt. Then you were to add another 5lbs of spine for broadheads. It messed me up for years. I didn't know better and assumed arrows kicked their way to the mark.

On the advice of a friend I tried arrows matched to the bow wt for a recurve and one spine group lower for a longbow. Man what a difference! I've been following that advice ever since.

This is my rule of thumb for wood. I just follow the Easton chart for aluminum. Works for me.

Just my observation.......sloppy release needs heavier spine, clean release needs lighter spine.
Title: Re: Am I the only one who shoots underspined arrows better?
Post by: Friend on February 13, 2012, 09:52:00 PM
Not statistically substantiated, but this has been the observations from my limited experience.

On several different bows using the same shaft with minor modifications to length and major modifications to the end wt.

Great flight was attained at:
1. Stu's calc recommendation
2. Arrow set-up was ~15#'s underspined
3. Arrow set-up was ~30#'s underspined.
Title: Re: Am I the only one who shoots underspined arrows better?
Post by: elbow on February 13, 2012, 10:33:00 PM
I shoot full length 2016 with 145. Grain heads out of my Kodiak hunters, one is 43 pounds the other is 47 both at my 30" draw. Underspined according to Stu but work great for me.
Title: Re: Am I the only one who shoots underspined arrows better?
Post by: Manitoba Stickflinger on February 13, 2012, 10:43:00 PM
Me too! I can shoot a 500 spine arrow out of almost any weight bow with great flight....with 200 grains plus insert up front! Any time I've had buddies with tuning problems a weaker arrow worked to fix it. I think a common problem is starting with a shaft too stiff. JMO!
Title: Re: Am I the only one who shoots underspined arrows better?
Post by: Son of Texas on February 13, 2012, 10:46:00 PM
I've wonder the same thing, I shoot a 48@ 28 Kanati 8 strand FF with 35/55 GT full lengh with 300grs up front.I've bare shaft tuned and that is what it takes to get it tuned.
Title: Re: Am I the only one who shoots underspined arrows better?
Post by: Night Wing on February 13, 2012, 11:06:00 PM
I think it depends on how close to center or past center a bow's shelf is cut along with the thickness of the side strike plate.

With that said, my Blacktails are cut 3/16" past center and my side strike plate is 1/8" thick.

So, my 42# bow likes a 32" aluminum arrow spined for 57 pounds and my 37# bow also likes the same 32" aluminum arrow spined for 57 pounds.

By shooting different tip weights, this allows me to shoot a variety of differently spined aluminum arrows no matter their tip weights because the dynamic spine and arrow dynamic spine will both be around the 57# mark for both recurves.
Title: Re: Am I the only one who shoots underspined arrows better?
Post by: JParanee on February 13, 2012, 11:13:00 PM
I have come to like an arrow that bare shafts a tad light

After I fletch they fly like darts
Title: Re: Am I the only one who shoots underspined arrows better?
Post by: JamesV on February 14, 2012, 09:47:00 AM
The wood arrows that shoot best out of my longbow are underspined. My bow is cut to center with velcro sideplate installed afterwards with a B50 string

James
Title: Re: Am I the only one who shoots underspined arrows better?
Post by: Rick Richard on February 14, 2012, 10:24:00 AM
I am finding out after numerous arrows and months of tuning that the slightest and I mean slightest stiff spine makes me shoot erratic.  Flyers or shooting to the right (lefty) is my normal pattern.  Recently, I shot some arrows that I thought would be to weak and to my suprise they flew where I was aiming; even with a bad release sometimes. For me being a little on the weak side hides my shooting flaws and gets me close to the spot.
Title: Re: Am I the only one who shoots underspined arrows better?
Post by: SCATTERSHOT on February 14, 2012, 10:58:00 AM
If they shoot well for you, from your bow, then they are spined properly. Guys worry too much about the charts IMO.
Title: Re: Am I the only one who shoots underspined arrows better?
Post by: lpcjon2 on February 14, 2012, 12:08:00 PM
My ? is I know some have been shooting for some time and for the new guys finding out under spined arrows are shooting well.I think that maybe they should check their form and consider they may be compensating for the arrow and its not the proper arrow at all.JMHO
Title: Re: Am I the only one who shoots underspined arrows better?
Post by: frankwright on February 14, 2012, 02:23:00 PM
I think many are shooting over spined carbon arrows based on the spine the arrow is supposed to be.

I know lately some of the shooters around here are finding the 1535 GT arrows shoot very well in bows up to and slightly above 50#.

I started out shooting a 57# longbow with 5575 arrows and it never shot well until I tried the 3555 arrows.
Title: Re: Am I the only one who shoots underspined arrows better?
Post by: elkhunter45 on February 14, 2012, 02:42:00 PM
You're not alone. I shoot slightly underspined arrows better out of my recurve and longbow.
Title: Re: Am I the only one who shoots underspined arrows better?
Post by: Canadabowyer on February 14, 2012, 07:22:00 PM
Yep, I get better results with .600 spine carbons with bows #45 to #55 than I do with stiffer arrows. Bob
Title: Re: Am I the only one who shoots underspined arrows better?
Post by: sbschindler on February 15, 2012, 07:07:00 AM
I shoot bow poundages from 50 to 58lbs I struggled for several years trying to find a carbon arrow that flew perfect. for some crazy reason I put a 100 grain insert into a 3555 goldtip and I was shooting 175 tips and WOW that thing flew like they say "a dart" I did some experminting and found the CE Heritage did the same these arrows are cut to 30 inches, I did a check on Stu"s Calc and found the goldtips dynamic spine was 32lbs and the CE was 35lbs, what!! this could not be true, but they flew like I have never seen a carbon fly b4, So I have found my arrow and I am glad others are using weaker shafts and getting good results, I believe it to be another discovery about carbon. they recover so quickly from paradox that It appears you can use a supposedly weaker shaft and get good results  ..BTW the goldtips weigh in at 535 grains and the CE 620 so these are not lightweight arrows at all,, good hunting weights
Title: Re: Am I the only one who shoots underspined arrows better?
Post by: Cherokee Scout on February 15, 2012, 09:09:00 AM
I am a firm believer that you are better off using a shaft that is under spined than one that is over spined. Using the correct spine always is best, but because most shooters do not have perfect form or perfect release, their shafts often shoot stiff.
Title: Re: Am I the only one who shoots underspined arrows better?
Post by: JR Williams on February 15, 2012, 01:03:00 PM
Whatever tuning method you use. Let the bow tell you what the correct spine of the arrow is. Instead of worrying about being overspined or underspined take some time and get "Just right spined"
Title: Re: Am I the only one who shoots underspined arrows better?
Post by: shortstroke 91 on February 15, 2012, 09:15:00 PM
Thanks everyone, glad to see I'm in good company. Only reason I asked was because I've spent a bunch of money and time trying to make the "reccomended shafts" work and was pulling what little hair I have left out trying to make them work...
Title: Re: Am I the only one who shoots underspined arrows better?
Post by: boog21 on February 15, 2012, 09:53:00 PM
I shoot 2117s from a 60# @ 28" bow that I draw to around 29 1/2" with 200 grains up front.  Badly underspined according to Stu's calculator, but they fly way better than the heavier spined arrows.
Title: Re: Am I the only one who shoots underspined arrows better?
Post by: Friend on February 16, 2012, 07:12:00 AM
Results could be skewed due to how the underspined numbers were achieved. High end EFOC and Ultra-EFOC arrows may dramatically impact arrow flight.

Example:
One arrow set-up with normal FOC that is 30#'S under-spined will likely demonstrate poor flight. Where a 30# under-spined arrow set-up with Ultra-EFOC will demonstrate exceptional flight.
Title: Re: Am I the only one who shoots underspined arrows better?
Post by: Sam McMichael on February 16, 2012, 04:42:00 PM
I have several Hill bows that seem to prefer arrows - wood - spined at the bow's stated draw weight.
Title: Re: Am I the only one who shoots underspined arrows better?
Post by: Montanawidower on February 16, 2012, 10:48:00 PM
Yep I shoot 15-35 GT with my 45lb limbs and 35-55 with my 55#, and 58# limbs.  I just had this discussion with Randy Morin at league tonight.  I'm a new convert as of a couple of years ago.

I think for years my tuning problem was overspined shafts.  Alum,wood,and carbon.    

Jeff