I've noticed that on more than one occasion I see comments that cast doubt on whether or not some folks really do have or need a long draw with a Hill-style bow. Or, they insinuate that a long draw with a Hill indicates something is wrong.
First, a little background. I'm 42 and have been shooting trad bows for a long time. Probably over the span of 30 years or more, with a brief hiatus or two, strewn in there. I shot hickory self bows for the vast majority of that time. Most of those bows had a straight grip that I copied from the handle of an old broken bow my Grandfather owned.
I've owned several different bows over the years. I'm not a collector by any measure, and really only like to own bows I'll use. My longest lasting, most used bow was a 55@28, 70" fiberglass-backed lemonwood bow I bought at a trade show. I shot a lot of stuff with that bow. It met an untimely death a few years ago, when I tripped on a root and fell onto it. I've owned a few compounds, but always shot them bare, with no sights. A peep sight seemed like a great hinderance to me. I'm certainly not opposed to anyone that wants to shoot one, but I much prefer the simplicity of a longbow.
I've had a few recurves, but never did develop an attachment to any of them. They just seemed so noisy compared to the longbows. I've also owned a few d/r bows. My favorite, an OL Adcock, non-acs, was a stellar bow. The grip didn't fit me well, but that bow was a very stable shooter. Too bad it delaminated. Currently, my go to bow is a Hill Halfbreed, 69", and marked 45@29. It's a touch too short and I've had to build the grip up to fit my hand, but I really enjoy shooting it. It's actually the first real Howard Hill bow I've ever owned, or at least the first one with the Howard Hill name on it. I do have a couple of really heavy older Hill-style bows that don't have any writing on them, so I'm not sure of their origin.
Physically, I'm 6', with a 77" wingspan and right-handed. I have long arms, broad shoulders, and big hands. Due to a wrist injury, I find it very uncomfortable to shoot with a straight, high wrist. I've also got some bone chips in my left elbow that keep me from completely straightening my arm, so I can't physically shoot with a completely extended and straight bow arm.
I'm basically self taught. I shoot split fingered and anchor with my middle finger in the corner of my mouth. I do have good alignment, at least in comparing myself to Terry's Form Clock. Aiming wise, I consider myself an instinctive shooter. I'm aware of the arrow point in my peripheral view, but I try to focus intently on the spot I want to hit. I am a deliberate shot and hold at full draw for a second or two, maybe a lot longer if I need my quarry to move some. I always shot with my bow hand adding pressure to the middle of the bow handle. I do hold on to the bow with some grip pressure, not a lot, though, and not enough to torque the bow. I prefer to have a little pressure on the back of the bow with my ring and middle finger, directly opposite the pressure that I put on the belly side of the grip. At the shot, with my Hills, and my others, for that matter, I perceive very little handshock, just a mild thump. The bow doesn't jump around in my hand. I'll note that I do shoot around 12 gpp out of all of my bows.
I'm accurate enough take a lot of squirrels and rabbits every year, in addition to the odd coyote and whitetail. I've also shot several hogs over the years. I shoot every day, if I can, with 99% of my shooting consisting of roving and stumping, shooting one arrow. There is definite room for improvement, but when I'm out shooting, I never think to myself "I wish I could shoot better." If I miss, I usually know why.
With my straight-gripped bows, my draw length measures 29" from the throat of the nock to the inside of the grip. It is the same with my Hill with the locator grip. It's 29-1/4" on my Black Creek Banshee which has a low locator grip. I currently don't own any high grip bows, so I can't say what it would be with one. My Halfbreed is 2" deep from the belly to the back of the grip, so that translates to a 31" draw. Remember, this is with heel down, slight elbow bend, and anchor in the corner of my mouth.
At any rate, back to the main topic of this post. After reading several of the comments that I mentioned earlier, I began to think maybe I am, in fact, doing something wrong. I read that some guys went from a 31" draw with a recurve to a 28" or even 27" draw with a Hill.
Just for kicks, I went out and tried to shoot a 28" arrow. There is no way I could shorten my draw that short. The only way for me to do that was to either have my bow arm elbow bent way too much, which required a lot of use of the arm muscles, or the string floating out in space in front of my face at anchor. I could shoot that short by dramatically opening my shoulders to the target, but that threw my alignment way off. My hand would fly away from my face upon release, and it just plain felt weird. There was no way to engage my back muscles. I was still pretty accurate at 15 yards, but not nearly what I am normally.
Now, I'm not saying that a fellow who shoots with a locked arm and a straight wrist won't loose some draw length when going to a Hill-style bow. Certainly he will. A Hill won't respond well to that type of form. But personally, my form doesn't vary very much between different styles of bows. I'll never be able to shoot with a completely straight bow arm. I shoot all of my bows with my hand on the grips, and the straight wrist is uncomfortable for me. Essentially, the difference in draw lengths for me will be the difference in the thickness of the grips of the bows, and the slight difference in the grip angles. It's almost a pointless endeavor to make a statement about someone else's draw length without seeing them shoot.
Love it sir! Ric
WOW !! I am not the only one. I tried to shorten my draw and I can't get a consistant length. Allbbeit, I didn't try for long. I have to get a video posted.
Here is a photo of Hill and Guy Madison shooting. Draw length will fall where it is based on arm length, body strucuture. The hill style has bend in the arm. If you want shoot longbows with a straight arm, don't think anyone is saying that is wrong. It is not Hill style to shoot with a straight arm if you follow his guidelines and those of John Schulz. Asbell in one of his articles talks about shooting that way. Hill and many other longbow shooter in the past shoot a bent arm, heel down on the bow, casual and relaxed style. Here is a picture to give perspective. Yes, the bow arm is bent alot, and more important is the feel of the bow shoulder is "low and back" in the socket so to speak. Does it "feel" really bent, yes. Does it become natural after doing it awhile, yes. That "awhile" does not come over one or 2 practice sessions.
(http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/n559/jeffbschulz/hill-2.jpg)
Prior to adopting the Hill swing style of shooting my draw was 28" and when I 1st started trying to copy what I saw on the Schulz video my draw dropped to about 25&3/4 but within about two weeks my draw lengthened back out to 28".
I wish I could explain what happened but alas I can't completely.
I do know that once I started to focus on my back muscles the draw lengthened.
Now my draw and release feel as natural as anything.
God bless,Mudd
Think about this. When you shoot a heavy weight bow for yourself what happens? If I draw a 75 pound longbow I will use my back muscles, and lock my bow shoulder in to get stability to pull it. From my experience shooting a lighter weight bow is more difficult in this style than a heavier one. With a 50 pound bow I have difficulty shooting this style. There is not enough resilency and I overextend my bow arm. With more weight the bent arm comes up, and my back muscles take over in getting the bow to full draw, as an added plus more power, and crisp release. Not saying to overbow, but shoot a heavier bow 60# or above a few shots and see what happens.You can really feel this with a heavy bow once you have the mechanics down.
How about photos of bow arms and the bend? These need to be taken while you are actually in the shooting process. If you stage it by just drawing that is what you get a staged presentation instead of how you actually look at full draw when shooting. Here is mine. I am actually more bent now, getting closer to the picture of Hill.
(http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/n559/jeffbschulz/longbowphotos008-2-1.jpg)
When the heel is down on the bow, bow shoulder low and back and locked in the socket there is no need for arm strength. You have a feeling of "bone to bow", the bowhand wrist is broken and the forearm bone is "going into the centerline of the grip. Slight pressure with the bottom 2 figers is all that is needed.
The big X in the whole equation is how much bend in the arm? Should the arm look like a dogleg?
Back to G.Fred, he tried to find out the same thing, everyone said you need to bend your arm, but no one knew how much. He basicly concluded that, the broken wrist applying pressure to center of the grip and not locking your elbow is enough bend, any thing more is just shortening your draw. I tend to agree with that.
I'm 6'3"+, long and lanky, 76" wingspan. I draw 29.75" all day long with my Hill bows. With a high wrist recurve close to 31.
The best way I can describe it is (someone else said it this way). If your standing there with an arrow nocked and waiting for that critter to take that last 1/2 step, bow out infront of you, fingers tugging on the string, look at your bow arm...should have a little bend in it cuz you cant comfortably straighten out your bow arm while iin this postion. Thats basicly where my bow arm stays, with that little bend in it.
A lot of pics I see of Hill bow shooters it look like they are not drawing all the way, there drawing elbow is pointed right at the camera instead directly behind the arrow.
Not trying to say whats right or wrong but there is no need to give up more than a couple inches just cuz you switched to a Hill style bow, less maybe they move there anchor fwd also.
Just my 2 bits
Eric
i think of it more as a "flexed" elbow instead of a "bent" elbow.... but thinking about my shot gets in the way of my shooting!
I agree with Westbrook and G. Fred in that placing your bow hand in the heel down position creates enough bend in the bow arm. I've been thinking about the pronounced bend in Howard Hill's bow arm and recall a comment he once made about a 28" arrow being the most efficient. Considering his possible draw length based on his stature, I'm sure he could have drawn further. Getting a longer wood arrow in a longer draw length at his preferred draw weight would have been difficult. Could it be that his bow arm bend is more a result of his arrow selection than form?
Southpaw, you beat me to it. That is precisely why he shot the way he did. Matter of fact I read where he experimented with steel tubing for his africa hunt so he would be able to stretch it out more to gain more of a power stroke. I have been shooting Hill bows since the 80's and always adapted to them, so I could be more effective as a hunter. I never shot one to be Howard Hill, I shot them because I liked them! I use my style, not someone else's, that works for me.
The shoulder position has as much to do with your draw length as the bent arm and wrist. The natural tendency to lean into the shot for some can really get them into an open stance, even more than what Hill had from what I have seen. For me it makes a full inch of draw without even feeling it. That is one of the reasons I like to keep my arrows so that I can tag the point. For someone with a 77" spread and a 31" draw plus other joint issues will not fit the average and of course there is always more than one way to pull a bow back. But for those that wish to shoot with a more squared up and rigid form, they usually find that a higher gripped bow to be more accommodating for their way of shooting. G Fred went towards the BW recurves with his and that is totally understandable, but at the same time I have seen many guys trying to shoot Hill bows with that straighter squared up form that were totally frustrated with their Hills. I think one should shoot what ever bow they find most comfortable for them and the form that they find most natural. If I had long arms and felt that I could effectively hunt with a straighter form, I would be hunting with a Stotler recurve, with no regrets about not shooting longbows.
I draw my 70" Big Five just over 31", I tried to change my style but it didn't work for me. The bow handles the long draw just fine and it spits heavy arrows plenty fast!
Thom
I didnt make my post to knock the Hill style of shooting. I shoot more like Hill than "unlike" him. Just never figured out the dogleg bowarm. I too have heard the reason was that he wouldnt shoot over a 28" arrow, guess only Howard really knows why.
My original point was that you dont have drop from 31" to 27" of draw just because you change bows. Maybe because, looking back, I shot my recurves more like a longbow in some ways. Never been an upright squared off line shooter, its always been based on what works best for hunting.
Howard was a great shot first and formost because...he was a great shot. Probably would have been just as great if he could have got some long stiff.300 carbons and straighted his arm a little increasing his draw length an inch or so.
But anyway...
Eric
Eric
Eric,
Sounds about right to me. Also, if Howard would have had clear glass to build his bows with, they'd have been better looking bows! IMHO.
If one figures Eric's 77" in ratio to his 31" that is really no different than my ratio with my draw and a slightly shaped gripped longbow which is 26.5" with my 67.25" wingspan. With recurves it is 27" and my bow arm is not locked, so he really is not off on the long side from a lot of others with shorter arms. The ratio of bow length to draw is quite different than the average, 2.258" of bow for every inch of draw with a 70" bow. That would be the same as a 59.27" bow for my 26.25" draw. That bow would be showing some major arc at full draw. Maybe there should be a longer longbow for that draw. But on the other hand perhaps that extra bend in the bow arm and open stance helped get Hill to the fluid accuracy that he was famous for in the first place.
QuoteOriginally posted by dragonheart:
When the heel is down on the bow, bow shoulder low and back and locked in the socket there is no need for arm strength. You have a feeling of "bone to bow", the bowhand wrist is broken and the forearm bone is "going into the centerline of the grip. Slight pressure with the bottom 2 figers is all that is needed.
You're right, but if you try to purposefully add more bend in your arm, you will use your arms muscles.
QuoteOriginally posted by looper:
QuoteOriginally posted by dragonheart:
When the heel is down on the bow, bow shoulder low and back and locked in the socket there is no need for arm strength. You have a feeling of "bone to bow", the bowhand wrist is broken and the forearm bone is "going into the centerline of the grip. Slight pressure with the bottom 2 figers is all that is needed.
You're right, but if you try to purposefully add more bend in your arm, you will use your arms muscles. [/b]
I disagree. If you break the wrist, bend your arm and get the heel of the hand far enough into the center line of the bow, you will not increase the tension in arm muslces in the bow arm. The other component is the low and back bow shoulder, locked in. In phots of Hill you can really see this. His arm is not tensed up.
There are people that shoot Hills with a side pressure grip. They "squeeze the sap out of it" so to speak.
Look at Byron Ferguson's form. He has a broken wrist, bent arm, but is NOT squeexing the fire out of the bow and "muscling" it. He does have pressure and writes about this in his book become the arrow. He is not using arm muscles to control the bow arm. Allowing the bowarm to flex naturally without tension. The more I have bend, and with proper placement of the heel of my hand in the centerline of the bowgrip, the less I have to grip it. I can shoot with slight pressure and a finger-sling. If you shoot with pressure on the "side of the bowgrip" squeezing the sap out of it, you are correct in that you will have to use more arm tension.
For me the key is to having the bow shoulder low and "locked into socket" and the bent arm relaxed.
You're missing what I'm saying. I'm saying that if you already do those things, shortening your draw by bending your arm MORE, will cause you to use your arm muscles. Whatever your draw length is, try to shorten it 3-4 inches by bending your arm more.
Jeff, buddy I read and re-read your post several times today, just couldnt get that "low bow shoulder" thing in my head as to what you meant. I just went out and shot the last 20 minutes of daylight and I think it finally sank in. Its tough to put into words, guess thats why I didnt understand at first.
Everything else you said made sense and lines up with how I shoot. My bow arm is relaxed, wrist bottomed out and light grip on the handle, I could shoot open handed if I wanted to pick my bow up every shot.
Got a few things to work on now.
Eric
Besides, I wasn't talking about shooting exactly like Howard Hill. I was simply trying to make the point that there are folks who shoot Hill-style bows effectively without loosing 5 inches of draw length, when switching from other style bows.
John Schulz commented about arm strength in a phone conversation I had with him. He said that some guys just don't have the arm to shoot heavy bows. There is a bit a muscle development that happens when one shoots a longbow Hill style. Hill worked on that strength regularly, so did Schulz.
FWIW....
I'm 6'2" and have a wingspan of 78+" and shoot a draw of 26 3/4 bop with a 2 1/4" deep handle. I have my bow shoulder settled 'back' into the socket like a bottomed out shock, my arm is bent a little with the elbow pointed down rather than out, and my wrist is bent almost to it's max at about 75*. I don't lean into the shot any more than I lean into my shotgun. I shoot with my shoulder at right angles to the target, my body facing 90* or more away from the target and my hips rotated more than 90* away from the target. It is a very powerful position like the old english longbowmen used when 'shooting in the bow'. I can shoot very heavy bows this way without sacrificing stability because I'm not floating my bow arm around in the shoulder socket and I'm not gripping the bow on the side. I can draw and shoot with my fingers completely open which shows I'm gripping the bow in the sweetspot of the palm. I also tilt my head forward slightly instead of holding it straight up. All of these factors help in keeping my draw length reasonably short. When I shoot a recurve or r/d bow, because of the different grip style, my draw increases about 1 1/2". I believe that draw length in the Hill style is a factor resulting in the sum of many small parts. Fluid motion is my key thought, just like shooting a shotgun over pointed birds.
If I would venture a guess...most guys I've seen state their draw length have done so in front of a mirror, or in front of someone watching, and they are NOT shooting. In essence their drawing form is very static. When I draw this way I also draw longer. But when I shoot, and this is key...."I become fluid because I'm thinking about the shot and not my form, which lets me react to the game and react to the shot situation and because I'm not thinking about form, my draw length is it's natural fluid length." When I have these debates with most archers, I have them draw colored lines on their arrows every 1/2" from about 25" to the end of the arrow and then while shooting NATURALLY AND FLUIDLY have someone watch to see which line they consistently draw to..... while shooting level, up and down and sitting and kneeling....I've only had two guys tell me that their draw length was the same as in front of the mirror. The vast majority of shooters tell me that they would never believe their draw length while shooting was actually as short as the colored lines on the arrow displayed. Try it for yourself. And remember not to try to stretch out the draw. Draw and shoot as smoothly and rythmically and fluidly as possible, just as you do in the field....see what the colored lines tell you.... ;) :thumbsup:
QuoteOriginally posted by looper:
Besides, I wasn't talking about shooting exactly like Howard Hill. I was simply trying to make the point that there are folks who shoot Hill-style bows effectively without loosing 5 inches of draw length, when switching from other style bows.
I agree. People can shoot Hill style bows in different configurations of form, and make it work. With that said that does not equate to shooting the form or technique that Howard Hill and his protege John Schulz advocate.
The idea behind the bend in the arm is mobility, and a relaxed style. That is based on John Schulz writing and DVD. He was taught by Hill and never deviated from his teachings in shooting form based on his video. The mobility is to adapt to a moving target for quick shooting.
Will you loose 5 inches? No, I know you are exagerating. In returning to shooting "Hill-style" I have lost about 1 1/2" of draw length. I have gained discipline, a more relaxed attitude (helped with TP issues), mobility, confidence, a standard to return to when I have some glitch in my technique, and a form that allows me to shoot more bow weight for hunting.
I disagreed that arm strength is needed. Yes, there is strength needed on some level to shoot a longbow. We can all benefit from being fit, no matter how you bend your arm! :p You can build on that and it helps for sure. I just don't see where bending the bow arm vs. straight arm requires more strength as long as the bow shoulder is low and back in the socket, and bow grip are in proper position. From my experience, when I grip the bow properly, I only need enough to hold onto the bow at recoil.
When I grip on the side of the bow, then I really have to get a hold of it to control it. That is not a relaxed way to shoot for me. When I do it right, the slight grip pressure is more with the bottom three fingers, with the pointer only along for the ride very relaxed. Bow is "seated" in the grip, centerline of bow on the heel of hand.
Watch this video of Hill. I think this video may illustrate what I mean.
http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=33;t=000004
"...into the socket like a bottomed out shock"
Nate Steen
Yeah that is it! thank you!
:thumbsup:
I went out a little while ago and shot several of my Hills. I took a 45@29, a 50@28, and a 75@28. I noticed that I had a much lower bow shoulder with the heavy bow and my draw length shortened to around 30.5". I guess I was engaging my back muscles better with the heavy bow. After thinking about it, I went back out and shot my 45@29 with the same low and back shoulder. My draw did shorten to the same 30.5", maybe a touch more.
I had my wife take some pics for me. It's hard to tell in the picture, but I'm about 1/2" from the 31" mark on my arrow, so this is about a 30.5" draw. That arrow is 32.5" to the back of the point.
(http://i934.photobucket.com/albums/ad183/wclooper/IMG_0071.jpg) (http://i934.photobucket.com/albums/ad183/wclooper/IMG_0072.jpg)
I pegged a tennis ball at 27 steps on this shot.
looper....not to be critical...your form looks great. But I see one thing that would probably shorten your draw at least another inch....you wear glasses...and as such you can't tilt your head forward as much or it affects your vision. You have to keep a straight up head position. I know, I have to wear glasses...I wear contacts most of the time so that I don't have to worry about tilting my head, but the glasses I do have are very small.
Form looks good. This is my form years back with a 46# bow. Then today with a 60# bow. Look at my bowgrip. Notice how in the first photo I am so around on the side of the grip. Lots of arm strength. In the second, much more stable as the wrist is broken like making a 'stopsign" with your hand and forearm bone going into the bow grip's center of the handle.
(http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/n559/jeffbschulz/longbowphotos002-2-1.jpg)
(http://i1139.photobucket.com/albums/n559/jeffbschulz/longbowphotos008-2-1.jpg)
I feel like I've got a pretty fluid motion. I grew up hunting quail, pheasant, and ducks. I'm a pretty good wingshoot with a shotgun. I think that carries over into my bow shooting.
sorry, but you guys maybe are just splitting hairs with head positions and openness of stance. Looper's anchor looks solid and natural, unless he is trying to develop a more fluid shot for moving targets, I really don't know if it would be worth messing with ingrained form just to shorten the draw up. How one gets to full draw has as much to do with the ability to shooting fluid as the shape of the full draw form. I disagree with a rotational style draw for most hunting situations that I get into, he did not show us his draw, but however he gets there and if he is happy with what he is getting in the field, why change it?
Sometimes a picture is worth a thousand words. We gain perspective with an image.
I start with the bow quartered low, and extend as I draw back, unless the situation dictates otherwise. In most of my hunting situations, I like to have as little movement as possible and there have been times when I started with the bow up in front of me.
I don't really care to shorten my draw up. I guess I could lean my head forward a lot more, but I'd rather just hold it where it feels natural.
Nate, I agree about the glasses. They are a pain, but they are a lot less of a pain to me than contacts are. I have astigmatism in both eyes, so my vision is a little sharper with glasses. Everything is a good deal larger with contacts, though.
Pavan....Looper's comments and photo elicit response as to how the draw length can be shortened...we responded as such. We did not question his solid form....
One of the ways to shorten draw length is head position...watch Hill...he always looked as if he was craning his head forward to get his eye closer to the arrow....much like tilting your head forward to get your eye down and looking down the barrel of a shotgun. When I see an upright head position, I know the shotgunner is plagued by high misses. When someone wears glasses it is difficult to lower the head into the same position as Hill did due to vision distortion....you actually would look over the lenses and lose clarity. This head tilt is just one of the factors that help shorten the draw.
Looper...i just recently had catatact surgery in one eye...at 42 yrs young...i have bad astigmatism in the other eye. To be perfectly honest I didn' t begin to shoot my best Hill form until I ditched the glasses years ago. It was said that Hill had very good vision.
Nate, did you have a video posted of you shooting somewhere?
Yes....many pages ago. I wasn't happy with the quality so I pulled it from youtube. I have been entertaining the idea of a dvd or maybe a blog....
Hill had extremely good eyesight. Not only was he an outstanding archer, but he was also very skilled as a golfer. It was thought that Hill could have easily been successful as a professional golfer...
...but I'm glad that he chose to focus on being a toxophilite!
Keep the wind in your face!
Shoot straight, Shinken
:archer2:
Hill had extremely good eyesight. Not only was he an outstanding archer, but he was also very skilled as a golfer. It was thought that Hill could have easily been successful as a professional golfer...
...but I'm glad that he chose to focus on being a toxophilite!
Keep the wind in your face!
Shoot straight, Shinken
:archer2:
Since I already posted my view on this I would like to offer an observation on something. In comparison of the 2 pics,Looper and Dragon, I would say that Looper looks more at ease with his style. His draw looks like it is comfortable to him, if you draw a line from his bow hand to his string elbow it is pretty well aligned,and he looks disciplined in his release,I would not change a thing if you get the results desired. Dragon, honestly you look a little stressed to me,you elbow is high,right shoulder is high, and you don't look relaxed to me by the look on your face, actually looks to me like you could be strained pulling the bow. If thats the way you are happy with, well good luck with it. This statement above is not meant to hurt anyone's feelings or to provoke a feeling of anger. Trying to be correct here.
Looper, being able to shoot with a variety of draws can be a really good thing. about 5 deer back, I saw a buck,(not a big one) coming my way, with no cover, I stepped into a tight cluster of four 8"diameter ash trees. The buck saw something and came straight at me. I had my bow up trying to figure out how to shoot from the tight quarters and the buck spotted me. I shot him by anchoring first and doing all of the draw by pushing the bow away from my face with the bow held straight up and down the entire time.
QuoteOriginally posted by cbCrow:
Since I already posted my view on this I would like to offer an observation on something. In comparison of the 2 pics,Looper and Dragon, I would say that Looper looks more at ease with his style. His draw looks like it is comfortable to him, if you draw a line from his bow hand to his string elbow it is pretty well aligned,and he looks disciplined in his release,I would not change a thing if you get the results desired. Dragon, honestly you look a little stressed to me,you elbow is high,right shoulder is high, and you don't look relaxed to me by the look on your face, actually looks to me like you could be strained pulling the bow. If thats the way you are happy with, well good luck with it. This statement above is not meant to hurt anyone's feelings or to provoke a feeling of anger. Trying to be correct here.
Maybe it is the camera angle as the way my shoulder and elbow appear. I will look at that with my form. Could be that luck will just be on my side. Don't know. Since you are not a follower of the Hill style of shooting, could you show a photo of your own personal form, since you shoot Hill bows, but not Hill style. :dunno:
I doubt if it will be today as I get home after dark, but if I can find someone to take it tomorrow I certainly will.If not Saturday. Why did you delete your other post while I was typing up my rebuttal and why do you want to change the subject to me?
PM sent
I would take the time to say that I could have been wrong to make a point of the pictures. Apparantly offense was taken and that truly was not my intent. I honestly thought that when pics are posted they become part of the thread and thus are open for discussion.I want to tell all that I will not post back to this thread anymore.
That's too bad. I expected feedback on my photos. I do take it all with a grain of salt, as it's difficult to accurately assess someone based on one or two photos. Anyway, I, for one, enjoy hearing other people's perspectives, even if they are critical. I'm pretty confident of my skills, they keep my freezer full, but there's definite room for improvement. If someone offers me a suggestion, I'm all for trying it, within reason, of course.