Two top line recurves both left handed first a 66" 63# lower limb on the right side about 6 inches from the riser. The other bow is a 60" 63# and a 53# set of limbs built one year apart from each other. All three delam's happened at the same time within hours of each other. What I am looking to find out is what I could have done in my form to make this happen?
OK is this a box store bow or custom from a bowyer?
Both bows are top line costom hand built bows.
I will not name the bows because I do not believe the bows or the men who built them to be at falt but you can find then both in Trad Bowhunter Mag. every issue.
Hmmm without know the particular I'd would give the fella a call and discus the issue to come up with a resolution. I think that about all you could do?
Gota remember...sh*t happens...does it suck sure but these bow are made by hand and there are alot of variablez to consider.
The thing that gets me is that I have to believe it was or is something in my form. None of my long bows have done this only those two recurves and I don't want to buy another recurve untill I have a idea about what happened.
Arrow weight to low possibly.
Light Arrows?
It sounds like maybe something to do with atmospheric conditions, exceptionally
dry, wet,heat, cold? just a guess but if they happened within hours sound like something to do with that time period?
Tim
The arrows weight was 680 grains. Not being mean here guys but all three lower limbs delambed at exactly the same place within hours of each other. I am a lefty and they delambed on the right side lower at 5.5 inches from the riser two limbs were made by one bowyer in Tx a year apart from each other. While the other was made by a bowyer in Wa. three years before that. Really am looking for help here. Would string torque have any bearing on this?
Storage, exposure to high heat, dry conditions. Left strung during long periods?
Is your draw length within the recommended range for those bows?
Hummer3T that is something I have not considered it was 118 degrees out that day.
Owlbait both bows were extremly well treated and cared for. Looper I have a 31.5 inch draw and the Tx bowyer said his 60" would handle that, but I hace very much wondered about that, and the other bow is a 66" I would hope it could handle my draw
I bet the heat is the primary cause. Are these takedown bows or one piece?
Looper they where take downs sir
I have to agree that heat probably is the culprit. Are they stored near a vent or hot water pipe?
I just don't think anything in your shooting could do that.I think it would have to be related to the heat.
118 degrees in February? Maybe the heat/cold temperature switch paired with the extreme heat? Were they black-limbs? Those are worse in the sun.
Marco
I am thinking something simpler..like a bad batch on glue? Maybe not curing properly?
118 degrees... WOW! That and your 31.5"draw probably had alot to do with the delam. How long was they strung in that kind of heat? If they was in the heat for a period of time and drawing them to that length???
That would be my guess! Jason
Cyred4d no sir they are both still very carefully watched over as I hope to have new limbs made for them.
JimB that seams to be the consenceous I am planning a BW later this year and I don't want the samething happening to it.
Trad in cali sorry about the timing but this took place in Aug.of last year. Although you did bring a big smile to my face and a loud laugh. Thank you sir for your wit.
QuoteOriginally posted by Covey:
118 degrees... WOW! That and your 31.5"draw probably had alot to do with the delam. How long was they strung in that kind of heat? If they was in the heat for a period of time and drawing them to that length???
That would be my guess! Jason
I'm thinking the same things. These weren't in your car the hours before and hours in between these events were they?
I've shot a few times at 110+ and I draw 31.5, no bow problems yet but I'm very careful with mine at those temps. A good 60" recurve should be fine at that draw, and the 66" should be great. I don't think that should be a problem.
Thom
Covey and Sticksnstones. All three about 20 minutes each
118 would make me delaminate, phew that's hot, I would think even storing a bow in that heat would cause it.
Inside the house was 70 degrees and going out side would make it a 48 degee change. A very interesting thought.
This is just my thought but whas it strung before hand in the heat and did you use a stringer or not cause that hot and not using a stringer and using your foot or behind ur leg coult twist it not knowing it has happened and made a crack in limb while hot then when shot it delamed just a thought
If this happened to 3 different limbs on 2 different bows that were built in a 4 year span, I would have to accredit it to exposure to the high heat. I shot my bow in the heat all last summer but never left it strung when not being shot and nearly never left in in my vehicle....even unstrung!
Bisch
Jake Fr great thought sir and I always use a stringer.
Bisch the bows always stay in the A/C .
The thing you all have brought up that I had not thought about is that I put togeather the bows in the house in 70 degree temps and then walked out into a 48 degree temp. change without giving them any time to adjust just started shooting.
Are they glass or carbon limbs? Also how do you string your bows. If you shoot three under and the bow is not tillered for it that could cause more pressure on the bottom limb and do it but that is unlikely. to delaminate on the bottom and one side only suggests that the bow is being twisted somehow. Do you have a quiver that you are putting on the limbs?
Just some thoughts, God bless you, steve
Sixby they are glass and they are bare nothing on them both are tillered split and I shoot split. I also was wondering about possable torque on the string as to why they all three did that on the same side. I know that a recurve is more subject to string torque then a long bow and none of my long bows have shown any signs of this problem.
There is nothing shooting related that you could have done even with your draw-nothing short of a dry fire. I am also inclined to discount the 45 degree theory, sounds like glue failure to me.
You have mentioned the string torquing a coupla' times-can't see that affecting the failure at all.
Richard,
were these bows used before you bought them? Three different limbs from two different bowyers seems to suggest something other than materials and workmanship.
Most bows are not built for a 31.5" draw...significantly more stress than a 28" draw! The overbearing stress, mixed with the heat, could cause delamination.
Were these bows built to a 28" draw length?
No Matt, the 66" was bought used and it was built to a 29" dl. The 60" inch was built to 28" and it was ordered in person in his shop where dl. was talked about and was told the bow would take it quite well.
Bjorn I would love to say glue failure, but I am having a hard time with three of them in less the.n an hour
Hmmm, If same bowyer you could say perhaps glue. But with 3 different bows I'd say it's a combination of heat, change in temperature and draw length all combined. 31.5 is a lot of stress on a bow limb.
Did you lay the bows in the sunlight in that heat? If so I would bet the heat did it. Laying in direct sunlight in that heat strung could very well cause the failure. In the shade, doubtful but 118 is very hot.
How are the limbs connected to the riser, one pin or two or by two bolts ?
Sounds like they cooked off. 118 degrees in direct sun can easily go much higher. Epoxy has a temp that it will soften and then stuff happens. A few years back we were at the shoot in McAlester OK and it was HOT! Our display tent was in the shade but another bowyer had his in the open. The sun dipped down and put recurves strung in the direct sunlight. I heard the bow go from 50 yds away. I saw four bows that did the same thing that day being left strung in trucks. Epoxy does not like heat.
I'm real surprised that after the second one let loose you kept at it.
Mike
My guess is that it was heat. Extreme draw may have exacerbated the situation. Not saying there's anything wrong with your draw length, just seems logical that the longer the bow is drawn the more force and flex on the limbs. Did the bows spend any time in a hot car?
I also say excessive heat at the same time or place!
You need to quit shooting in Death Valley! 118??!!?? :scared:
I agree it sure seems the main factor was the heat, add to that your DL. Have to believe that it would be much better for the bows not to mention the archer to shot in the morning or evening not the heat of the day...Wingnut builds high quality limbs, he knows what he's talking about.
OK I went back and re-read the thread. I'm outta' the glue camp and into the heat camp.
My guess is the heat.Really an unusuall canundrum.After reading wingnuts experiance,sounds like he knows.Ive never experianced much shooting in that kind of heat,but have in the high 90s with very high humidity with no problems.
Bjorn must shoot in some pretty hot times being down in Los Gatos,so its looking like the heat.
Do you shoot three under? After readying all the posts my money would be in the extreme heat in combination of the strain on the lower limb. My thoughts would be more strain on the lower limb causing it to break before the upper.
Do you shoot three under?
PS sorry to hear about that I'm sure it's a very painful experience.
You also must live to shoot after not quoting after the 1st two came apart.
Disregard the 3 fingers under comment.
Sorry for your loss
I vote extreem heat. Three bows within 20 min and none were built at the same time? 118 degrees? Tell us where you were so I'll know not to go there.
another vote for heat
I am curious, what color is the glass on these bows? Was it black or brown glass? Or were the limbs dark? I am asking because I have found that dark objects absorb a lot more heat.
The Bowyers Bench is visited by many knowlegable in the area of adhesives tolerance to heat. Just a thought even though many who have responded qualify as well. And I thought south MS. was hot!
I live in Sweetwater Tx. When I was a kid I can remember the temp on the bank at 128 degrees also yea I live to shoot. At first I did not even know what was going on all I could hear was a strange klicking coming from my bows. That evening I read a thread on TG about bows delamanating and the sound they made at the begining of a major crash, and if they were delamanating the glass would be foggy in the spot that tey were coming apart. So I looked at mine and found everything you guys have talked about in the delam process. Rather then take a chance on having the explode on me I asked and listened to ya'lls ideas and thoughts on what was going on with these two bows.
Previous threads have proablly save me a great deal of pain and this thread has given me some real insight as to what happened to my recurves. Ia am in hopes that you will not stop giving me your insights on this thread and I hope you will continue to bing your thoughts into this.
To those of you who I have not as yet answered personally I wish to covey my THANKS also and am still continuing to read them even now. WITH THE GREATEST OF THANKS Ric
Cyred4d the glass is clear sir
Wingnut I have been shooting for a few years but have only started real learning sence joining TG everything that I learned in the years before TG has been the hard way through books and hard knoks on my own.
Danny Rowan only long enough to pull six arrows the rest of.the time it was in my hands
Adamgti I shoot two finger split and thanks to other threads on what the begining of delamanation starts out like it was not painful to anything but my wallet
LongStick64 the 60" has two pins and on bolt and the 66" has one pin and one bolt
sounds strange :dunno:
Well it think the lesson learned here is that if it's 118 degrees outside . ..stay inside and have a glass of icewater. Very hot conditions are very hard on bows.
Mike
atatarpm, were you hanging your bow on something? If all the limbs delaminated in the same spot then it might have been a hot pole or stone that that part of the limb was resting against. I had a friend have his ACS delam on him this past summer when he set it down on a rock in the sun to take a nap and it blew up right next to his head.
I'll vouch for Atatarpm..I also live at "Ground Zero"(Sweetwater,Tx).I didn't have a bow that delaminated(only a 28" draw)but I had two rolls of Fletch tape that died and an inside vinyl car door trim that let loose.Still haven't gotten that trim to restick with anything yet.
Hoping this summer is not a repeat.
Oh yea,I vote the heat !!
Come visit us Ric.
Mike
OK, heat it is. No question 118 is HOT. Of course, as has been mentioned, dark glass/carbon will absorb heat from sunlight, but most any dark material will - including veneers. I would expect the glass to further insulate the bow core retaning the increased temperature internally. 118 in the open air may have resulted in a significantly higher temp at the limb core. I guess we all can learn from this one!
Possum Head, south MS is hot! But it's the humidity that get's you! (how many times have your heard that before :D )
Hart2hart be home in two weeks Mike PM me your phone # and I'll call you when I get in t join the club.
Thanks Ric
Cch I'll bett that made him jump really high not to mention he came snap awake.
Wingnut I love it. On my way home in a few weeks may I stop by the shop to visit? Thank you Ric