I was out stump shooting with a couple of guys from another forum the other day and my son had his range finder along. well both these guys say I never take a shot greater than 20 yards. I thought it would be fun to se what they think 20 yards is. I said stalk up to that stump and shoot it from 20 yards and stay there and i'll range find it after the shot. Guy #1 STALKS UP TO 32 YARDS AND FIRES A DIRECT HIT.So I keep my mouth shut and guy #2 sneeks up aon a seperate stump slightly down hill And fires a direct hit from 30 Yards. Both said that it was 20 yards. They were shocked when I showed them the range. LOL :bigsmyl:
I think a lot of trad guys don't really know how to judge distance accurately because they shoot without sights and it is not as important to know the distance.
James
I like it when one says I never shoot at any game over so many yards then take a longer shot. I take any shoot that feels good without worring about how far it is. most of my big game kills have been under 20 yards but I also killed a elk at 34 yards. and a antalope at 31 never thought about how far both where good angles and the shots just felt right. now that being said I have passed up shots at a close range because the shot did not feel right.... Shoot what feels good....
That's why I don't use a rangefinder.. :rolleyes:
QuoteShoot what feels good
Amen!
It would be interesting to know how many shots are taken that "feel right" and dont connect or wound an animal without eventual retrieval. I have taken a couple shots that felt right only to miss horribly, six inches under,etc. I also lost the second deer I ever shot with trad equipment because I was pushing the envelope of what my effective range was. These questions are only based on my own experience and hopefully others have not shared my miserable luck but when I head to the woods now I walk off distances so I know when an animal has entered my effective killing range. Good luck to all, whatever your range may be.
It was great fun we saw a blacktail doe at about 60 yards in a small clearing I said Heck shes 20 LOL we all laughed But it does make you think.
This is a prime example of what traditional stands for. No sights ($100) and no range finder ($300). You've gotta love the simple things!!
I rarely think in terms of yardage, but I do sometimes pre-select markers that I feel are within my range and think to myself that if a deer steps inside those ranges I will feel comfortable making the shot.
QuoteOriginally posted by team fudd:
It would be interesting to know how many shots are taken that "feel right" and dont connect or wound an animal without eventual retrieval. I have taken a couple shots that felt right only to miss horribly, six inches under,etc. I also lost the second deer I ever shot with trad equipment because I was pushing the envelope of what my effective range was. These questions are only based on my own experience and hopefully others have not shared my miserable luck but when I head to the woods now I walk off distances so I know when an animal has entered my effective killing range. Good luck to all, whatever your range may be.
That's a good point. There is a vast gulf between hitting a distant target and whether or not you should shoot at a live animal at any given range.
Heck, I cant even AFFORD A Range Finder!! :thumbsup: I just have real Lucky Guesses! :laughing: :laughing:
QuoteOriginally posted by looper:
QuoteOriginally posted by team fudd:
It would be interesting to know how many shots are taken that "feel right" and dont connect or wound an animal without eventual retrieval. I have taken a couple shots that felt right only to miss horribly, six inches under,etc. I also lost the second deer I ever shot with trad equipment because I was pushing the envelope of what my effective range was. These questions are only based on my own experience and hopefully others have not shared my miserable luck but when I head to the woods now I walk off distances so I know when an animal has entered my effective killing range. Good luck to all, whatever your range may be.
That's a good point. There is a vast gulf between hitting a distant target and whether or not you should shoot at a live animal at any given range. [/b]
I wish everyone thought this way.
One of the advantages of the old NFAA field round was you actually learned to judge distance quite well and if you shot enough your accuracy got way better and judging distance was second nature.
The majority of people can't guess range effectivly, that's been proven time and again by the military. Using a rangefinder is a good tool to learn to do that. Also it's a great tool to learn the trajectory of your arrows.
One of the very best shots I've met could guess his range to within an accuracy of a couple of yards all the way out to 60 yards. Is he a good shot because he doesn't know his yardage? At those distances the difference between a bullseye and shooting 12" low is only a 2 or 3 yard mistake.
Put it another way if you have a gun and want to start shooting over 300 yards then you have to learn the bullet drop, same thing with an arrow and to do that you need to know yardage.
If you want to "not care" about yardage that's fine but you'll probably not become a good long shot and might miss out on a once of a lifetime opportunity. Even the good long shooters who say they don't measure yardage are using a frame of reference for distance.
I think many of us trad gangers estimate range in terms of short, medium, and long without tying it to a specific number. Accordingly, the short is a natural feel good distance as long as the angle is good and a clear view is available. The medium begins to feel less comfortable and causes us to carefully consider. Long begins to become doubtful causing many to hesitate to drop the string at all. Specific distances will no doubt vary from hunter to hunter. For example, I know many guys who are o.k. with a clear shot at 30 yards, but for me that is too extreme. Remeber, if it is a tough shot on the 3D course, it will be even tougher on live game. I guess the most important thing is that we honestly assess whether or not we can pick and hit the hit "the spot" at whatever distance the situation arises. Or as Dirty Harry said, "A man has got to know his limitations."
I rarely think in terms of "yards" when I am shooting a bow.
When I shot scoped rifles more often, I was very good at range estimation, I trained myself to see ground in chunks of 50 yards. Obviously that doesn't work with a recurve or longbow.
When scouting for an ambush site, I think "slam dunk shot" and "too far"
When small game hunting or otherwise in a position that I am not able to affect the distance, I really don't think all that much...my brain does the adjusting, my only input is shoot or don't shoot.
QuoteOriginally posted by YORNOC:
QuoteOriginally posted by looper:
QuoteOriginally posted by team fudd:
It would be interesting to know how many shots are taken that "feel right" and dont connect or wound an animal without eventual retrieval. I have taken a couple shots that felt right only to miss horribly, six inches under,etc. I also lost the second deer I ever shot with trad equipment because I was pushing the envelope of what my effective range was. These questions are only based on my own experience and hopefully others have not shared my miserable luck but when I head to the woods now I walk off distances so I know when an animal has entered my effective killing range. Good luck to all, whatever your range may be.
That's a good point. There is a vast gulf between hitting a distant target and whether or not you should shoot at a live animal at any given range. [/b]
I wish everyone thought this way. [/b]
I will say this I have been hunting with my longbow for 15 years now. not sure how many deer I have killed with it but I bet close to 30 or more, 7 elk and 1 speed goat and I have only ever lost one deer. and the shot was under 10 yards. If someone shoots there bow a lot and dose a lot of stumping you dont need to now how far. If you have to think is this in my range? you should probuly not shoot, When it feels right it just feels right if you second guess your self then dont shoot. I bet there are a lot more deer lost or wounded to people that take shot just because it is in there "range" then if they only took shoots that felt right and did not have to think "can I make this shot?"
In hunting situations I do like Greg Dudley. often in poor light distance to potential targets are distorted while plenty of light to accurately shoot still exists. Having reference helps.
I always know the distance to the animals I shoot... I step it off after the shot. My shooting of game is dictated by a "go/no go" switch in my brain.
Each archer has his own limitations and he must learn what those are. No other person can or should determine what your ethical shot distances might be.
It's certainly not a one size fits all situation.
QuoteOriginally posted by Gentry:
I take any shoot that feels good without worring about how far it is. most of my big game kills have been under 20 yards... never thought about how far both where good angles and the shots just felt right. now that being said I have passed up shots at a close range because the shot did not feel right.... Shoot what feels good....
Ditto this!!!!!!!
Bisch
12 seasons on the line of scrimmage helped me learn to judge 10 yards. I just gauge 10 then 10 more from there and so on. Pretty accurate for me. I always practice this in the yard and then check my guess. Usually within a couple of feet. Practicing at known distances also helps train the brain.
If on stand I will pace off a couple of markers within in my comfort zone just to be sure but if stalking and game presents itself I use the 10 yards guessing rule like magnus.
This April while pig hunting I spied two pigs in the road at an estimated 40 yards. I closed the distance to around 30 yards but since the sweet spot on a pig is about the size of a softball and they never stop moving I chose not to take that shot. I felt I couldn't reliably hit a moving softball at 30 yards.
I am pretty good inside of 30 yards, but it comes from years of stepping off targets after the shot.
Still do better when I don't think about it and just shoot.
However when hunting I try to set things up for a 20 yard shot
I am terrible at judging distance. Just another reason I like the equipment I do.
If you only knew how many animals I have passed up because they were "too far" you would get sick after I told you the real distance.
After having shot 3D with literally hundreds of different archers over the years, I'm a firm believer in the value of distance estimation. The laws of gravity don't change just because your bow has no sights or you shoot instinctively, and if your brain can't equate the proper elevation for your bow hand depending on the distance to your target, you'll get quite an education in vertical stringing. Folks were shooting with conscious aiming systems (including bow sights) and judging distance long before any of us were born. There's nothing nontraditional about it.
Many years of shooting guns and compounds mixed with trad gave me decent range estimating ability. I step off my stump shots all the time so I know what my affective range is. I will step off areas around where I hunt to get a feel for what my core killing area is. I can't do that on the move. However, between a good feel of range, and knowing when my brain gets my bow hand set at a high angle, I can usually know when the shoot is too far even if it feels right.
What James said makes sense. I never use a rangefinder, just shoot if it looks good.
QuoteOriginally posted by Jason R. Wesbrock:
After having shot 3D with literally hundreds of different archers over the years, I'm a firm believer in the value of distance estimation. The laws of gravity don't change just because your bow has no sights or you shoot instinctively, and if your brain can't equate the proper elevation for your bow hand depending on the distance to your target, you'll get quite an education in vertical stringing. Folks were shooting with conscious aiming systems (including bow sights) and judging distance long before any of us were born. There's nothing nontraditional about it.
:readit:
I used to suck at judging distances - a lot of stump shooting has cured me. I don't ascribe a number to a distance during the shot sequence, but I do have a 'circle' in my head for when an animal crosses my maximum range - once I know that it's within 20 yards, I set up for the shot, and let the internal computer take over.
Your subconscious aiming during instinctive shooting does the estimate for you - not in actual numbers. But first I believe you have to teach your conscious brain to do the estimates, until enough shots makes it 'instinctive'. Instinctive just means that you've done something enough that you don't have to think about it anymore.
I have never taken a shot I feel?know I could not make. No matter the distance.
QuoteOriginally posted by Cyclic-Rivers:
I am terrible at judging distance. Just another reason I like the equipment I do.
Absolutely.
I've missed too many critical shots because I've been looking at pins instead of fur.
When I practice I wander around shooting at various targets at various distances presenting myself with form problems like kneeling, crouching, etc. I never think any more how far the target is. If I'm confident I shoot.