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Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: TAWL on January 28, 2012, 05:23:00 PM

Title: TUNE MY WIDOW!!
Post by: TAWL on January 28, 2012, 05:23:00 PM
Hey guys, I recently picked up a PSAII 56# @ 28". My draw length is about 28.5". I shoot split finger which the bow is tillered for. I need help. I CANNOT get this thing tuned. Before I tell you guys what my set up is, I would like to see how you would set it up just to see if I am in the ball park. I love everything about this bow, but it's got me frustrated. So I'm all ears.
Title: Re: TUNE MY WIDOW!!
Post by: bentpole on January 28, 2012, 05:26:00 PM
What arrows? Aluminum, Carbon or Wood?
Title: Re: TUNE MY WIDOW!!
Post by: TAWL on January 28, 2012, 05:27:00 PM
carbon
Title: Re: TUNE MY WIDOW!!
Post by: Ulysseys on January 28, 2012, 05:33:00 PM
beman ics 500s, 50 gr. insert - 125gr head, 29.5", 3 rivers 5 gpi weight tubes is about where I'd start.
Title: Re: TUNE MY WIDOW!!
Post by: BOHO on January 28, 2012, 05:50:00 PM
Id get some of the heavier gpi carbons made for trad. Id prolly try a full length 400 for more weight. the stiffer spines are more gpi. might even need a 100 grain insert but thats where Id start.
Title: Re: TUNE MY WIDOW!!
Post by: huntingarcher on January 28, 2012, 05:58:00 PM
Gold Tips 55/75 cut to 30-29 1/2" with 225-250 gr up front.Thats my set up for my PSA-III 55@28 and I draw a heavy 28".Widows can be testy with their arrow choice.
Title: Re: TUNE MY WIDOW!!
Post by: Lamey on January 28, 2012, 06:02:00 PM
When you say "cant get it tuned",  what exactly is the bow "doing" that you dont like?

How I would set it up,  and this is just a WAG, CE 250's, 30"+, with 175 grain field points.  

I would start with brace height in about the middle of what Widow recomends.

If that didnt work or I couldnt get it really "RIGHT"  I would call and ask the folks at Widow monday morning.    ;)
Title: Re: TUNE MY WIDOW!!
Post by: xtrema312 on January 28, 2012, 06:50:00 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by huntingarcher:
Gold Tips 55/75 cut to 30-29 1/2" with 225-250 gr up front.Thats my set up for my PSA-III 55@28 and I draw a heavy 28".Widows can be testy with their arrow choice.
Yes about there plus maybe a little length or weight.
Title: Re: TUNE MY WIDOW!!
Post by: stevewills on January 28, 2012, 06:55:00 PM
i have a black widow pma2 56@28 i draw 29 and my bow loves a heavy spined arrow,340s cut 30 inches with a 225 grain point,it loves 2219s cut 30.5 with 265 grains up front.....just play around with lots of spines itll tell you what it likes...
Title: Re: TUNE MY WIDOW!!
Post by: Matt D. on January 28, 2012, 07:04:00 PM
Arrow Dynamics Trad, cut to 29.5+, standard insert, 200 gr field point/broadhead.
Title: Re: TUNE MY WIDOW!!
Post by: Glunt on January 28, 2012, 07:10:00 PM
As stated above, GT 5575 29.5" with some decent weight up front.
Title: Re: TUNE MY WIDOW!!
Post by: TAWL on January 28, 2012, 07:39:00 PM
Thanks guys!! Here is what my current set up is. Im shooting CX Heritage 250's cut 29" bop with a 2" aluminum footing. I've tried everything I could think of from front loading with 300 up front right down to a 125 gr tip. The arrows seem week even with a b50 string. (big time fish tail) I can shoot these arrows off my other 55# bow with a fast flight string and 145 gr point and they fly perfect. I was thinking along the same lines as stevewills and bumping up to 350 heritage as I think it needs a heavy spine. I sure appreciate all the info!! Thanks again
Title: Re: TUNE MY WIDOW!!
Post by: JParanee on January 28, 2012, 07:44:00 PM
Sorry double post
Title: Re: TUNE MY WIDOW!!
Post by: JParanee on January 28, 2012, 07:46:00 PM
Start with a 400 spine full length with 100 grain insert nd 125 up front

Shoot no feathers and cut from the nock end till they are landing straight

When they do  fletch and u will be done

There are a lot of different ways to tune but this is the way that works for me and gives mr great broadhead flight
Title: Re: TUNE MY WIDOW!!
Post by: straight_arrow on January 28, 2012, 08:02:00 PM
Many combinations possible.  As I remember the widow handbook will direct you with the tuning, bare shafting ett., how your arrow is fletched and passes through the window will make a difference as well.  A good bow shop will have you fitted and tuned in 30 minutes.
Title: Re: TUNE MY WIDOW!!
Post by: stevewills on January 28, 2012, 09:32:00 PM
mine shot the 350s well as well,i got them from the classifieds on here,i think i was only shooting 165 up front....i bareshaft all my bows and have found some bows that like a 340 and some like a 600,im glad i go out and buy alot of shafts when i find them on sale...lol
Title: Re: TUNE MY WIDOW!!
Post by: grizzlyxx on January 28, 2012, 10:11:00 PM
Widow's take a stiff spine.  If you really draw 28.5 its going to take at least a 400 spine maybe even a 350.  I can tell you for sure no 500 spine shaft will work.  It took at full length 400 with 175gr out of my 44@28 MA drawn to 29in.  Hope that helps.
Title: Re: TUNE MY WIDOW!!
Post by: Mike Bolin on January 28, 2012, 10:26:00 PM
I had a PSAII, 60" long and 56#@28". I shot a 29" to bop .400 easton carbon with a 100 gr. brass insert and could use either a 150 gr. or 200 gr. point. I would suggest going with a 29.5" .400 spine carbon (a Gold Tip 55/75 is a .400) and a total point weight of 200 to 250 grains, using either a standard insert and heavy field points or a 50 or 100 gr. brass insert with some different weight field points (125, 150, 175, 200, 250). I think some of the sponsors here offer field point "test packs" with several different weight points. On my old PSAII, I got excellent bare shaft arrow flight with my above mentioned set up. I, like some others here, have found that some of the charts tend to over spine. The charts are a good starting point, but YOU testing YOUR bow with some different combos is the only way to get your bow dialed in! Good luck and let us know what works for you! Mike
Title: Re: TUNE MY WIDOW!!
Post by: ranger 3 on January 29, 2012, 08:12:00 AM
Try putting a match stick or something like that behind the side plate with the same arrows. Just something to play with.
Title: Re: TUNE MY WIDOW!!
Post by: black velvet on January 29, 2012, 08:28:00 AM
What is your brace height and nock point set at?
i shoot mostly aluminun and wood. 2016 and 2018 with 125 grs up front. 58 and 54# bows. For wood i use 55-60spine arrows. What your going thru is the reason I got away from carbon. But thats my choice.
Title: Re: TUNE MY WIDOW!!
Post by: Caleb Andes on January 29, 2012, 10:47:00 AM
GT 5575 cut to 29". 100 grain brass insert, then play with a 3 rivers test kit feild tips (125, 145, 175,200,250 grs)until youre bareshafts are flying well.

I haven't found a carbon arrow I cannot tune.. with 100 and 50 grain brass inserts and 3 rivers test kit.
Title: Re: TUNE MY WIDOW!!
Post by: TAWL on January 29, 2012, 01:28:00 PM
black velvet, Ive played with brace ht from 8" up to 9"and nock ht from 3/8 to 7/8. Tried b50 string and d97. I have a bunch of different spine cedars from 60-80lbs. the heavy spine is definitely better for me and this particular bow. I found today that if I short draw by an inch or so, I get better flight. But we all know that is not acceptable. Next step is to get stiffer shafts and start all over. Thanks again guys!!!
Title: Re: TUNE MY WIDOW!!
Post by: TaterHill Archer on January 29, 2012, 09:07:00 PM
I recently bought a used PCH.  51# @ 28".  I took it out today to shoot some test arrows.  Started with Easton Axis 500 shafts.  Cut to 30". 50 grain insert, 150 grain field point.  Bare shafted low and weak.  Adjusted nock point and got them hitting at same height as fletched shafts but with weak spine flight.  

Switched to a 400 Easton FMJ.  30" with 50 grain insert and 150 grain head.  Grouped right with my fletched arrows.

Yesterday I thought the fletched 400s didn't fly as straight as my fletched 500s.  However, I hadn't adjusted the nock point yet.  I'll cut a couple more and fletch them up and see what happens.  I have 2 of the Axis 400s I'll try out next weekend.
Title: Re: TUNE MY WIDOW!!
Post by: gregg dudley on January 29, 2012, 09:14:00 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by huntingarcher:
Gold Tips 55/75 cut to 30-29 1/2" with 225-250 gr up front.Thats my set up for my PSA-III 55@28 and I draw a heavy 28".Widows can be testy with their arrow choice.
I have a 60 inch SAIII and a 60 inch PMAII.  Both are marked 56# @28.  I shoot the same arrow set up, but 200 grains on the business end.
Title: Re: TUNE MY WIDOW!!
Post by: Dan Adair on January 29, 2012, 09:27:00 PM
There's always old One Eyed Pete over in Clark Fork Idaho.  He's got more Widow's than I have pairs of underwear.

Oh, and he owns a bow shop.  I'd give him a ring and see what he's gotta say. (208) 266-1559  Don't worry, he walks the walk...
Title: Re: TUNE MY WIDOW!!
Post by: ECRESS on January 30, 2012, 10:35:00 AM
I got my first widow this past year and found it likes a much stiffer spine than i would have ever thought.
Title: Re: TUNE MY WIDOW!!
Post by: Rob DiStefano on January 30, 2012, 01:34:00 PM
the bestest and fastest way to set up any stick bow is with arrow test kits.

a test kit will be your go-to resource for setting up all yer bows and will always be a useful.  in fact, it's an indispensably tool.  it will be irrefutable in determining what arrow will work for you and your bow - not for me or anyone else, just for you.  
 
for you and carbons, that'll mean 2 full length shafts in the 500 and 400 spine range at the minimum, and a goodly array of screw-in point weights from 125 to 300 grains.  don't matter what brand or model or whatever of carbon shafting.  you can use ready made screw-in points or use adapters and glue-on points.

leave all the shafts initially full length and glue on the supplied aluminum insert.  

start off with a full length shaft and test out the point weights, unfletched.  

cut down one shaft of each spine at the nock end to no less than 1.5" beyond your draw ength and test out all the point weights.    

the goal is reasonably good bare shaft arrow flight at 5 and 20 yards.    

all of the above assumes yer not a newbie and have reasonably good stick bow shooting form.  if not .......

good luck.
Title: Re: TUNE MY WIDOW!!
Post by: on January 30, 2012, 02:05:00 PM
What Rob said.
Title: Re: TUNE MY WIDOW!!
Post by: Orion on January 30, 2012, 02:08:00 PM
Do you draw the aluminum footing up onto the bow shelf when you shoot?  Most don't.  If you don't, given the specs you provided, you would then have 27 inches of shaft to the back of the bow, which in turn would mean that your draw length is quite a bit less than 28 1/2 inches.  That in turn affects needed spine, etc., etc.
Title: Re: TUNE MY WIDOW!!
Post by: JamesKerr on January 30, 2012, 07:14:00 PM
I would say a long 340 spine carbon with at least 250 grains up front would be a good starting point for your bow.
Title: Re: TUNE MY WIDOW!!
Post by: TAWL on January 30, 2012, 07:40:00 PM
I just read, on another site that adding weight to the back of the shaft would stiffen it. Has anyone tried this? And how would you add the weight?
Title: Re: TUNE MY WIDOW!!
Post by: JamesKerr on January 30, 2012, 07:42:00 PM
Adding weigh to the back of the shaft will stiffen it. There's not really a whole lot of ways to add weight to the nock end. I use a cap wrap on all my arrows not to add weight but for easy refletching and they only add about 10 grains or so.
Title: Re: TUNE MY WIDOW!!
Post by: TAWL on January 30, 2012, 08:35:00 PM
Yeah there doesn't seem to be an easy way. I did find a shaft which is a radial x weave 300. This shaft spines out at 87#. It's 29 inches long bop and with a 175 grain tip it is the best i have found yet with a 3/4" nock ht and 9/16 brace ht.
Title: Re: TUNE MY WIDOW!!
Post by: JamesKerr on January 30, 2012, 10:49:00 PM
The 300 radial x weave cut to 29" should be way to stiff no matter what you do to it for a 56# bow. What is your brace height. This may not be a spine issue but a brace height issue.
Title: Re: TUNE MY WIDOW!!
Post by: TAWL on January 31, 2012, 06:00:00 AM
8 9/16 brace ht. Forgot the 8 in my last post. But this arrow flies the best so far. I know I don't have perfect form, but I have never had tuning issues like this. Maybe it's the bow and something isn't right. It's not brand new. But I can't find anything visually wrong with it.
Title: Re: TUNE MY WIDOW!!
Post by: xtrema312 on January 31, 2012, 06:55:00 AM
QuoteOriginally posted by TAWL:
8 9/16 brace ht. Forgot the 8 in my last post. But this arrow flies the best so far. I know I don't have perfect form, but I have never had tuning issues like this. Maybe it's the bow and something isn't right. It's not brand new. But I can't find anything visually wrong with it.
Way to stiff.  You are probably running it off the riser.  You shoot 3 under?  If split, you need that high nock height because you are way stiff.  Been there and done that as they say.
Title: Re: TUNE MY WIDOW!!
Post by: TAWL on January 31, 2012, 06:16:00 PM
Shooting split. What is an average nock ht?
Title: Re: TUNE MY WIDOW!!
Post by: Rob DiStefano on January 31, 2012, 06:34:00 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by TAWL:
Shooting split. What is an average nock ht?
it's such a fast food world  :D

this is do-it-yerself project - don't think about what others are doing, that's a mistake.  

you don't care what's the "average" nock point location, you want to start with the top of your arrow's nock at 1/2" above square, shoot a few arrows with yer best form, and see how they fly vertically.  if the arrow "porpoises" in flight (up/down wiggling), the nock point needs to be adjusted up/down.  typically, if the nock flies/lands high, lower the nock point.  nock flies/lands low, raise the nock point.  

i'm way more interested in the arrow's flight, not how it lands on the mark.  ymmv.
Title: Re: TUNE MY WIDOW!!
Post by: Sixby on January 31, 2012, 09:32:00 PM
I'm just an old country boy but I would go the other direction with the 500s and simply take some weight off of the front. That will stiffen the spine. Sometimes we get so caught up in the technology we miss the simple things.

God bless and good luck, Steve
Title: Re: TUNE MY WIDOW!!
Post by: xtrema312 on February 02, 2012, 08:22:00 AM
Nock height is a personal and individual bow thing to some extent.  However, when you are way off and still having issue it could be something more than personal and slight bow tiller stuff.  

When I was having issues like this, it was some my split finger release and too much tension on my ring finger, but the big issue was over stiff arrow.  The BW bows did the best with the over stiff arrows due to the narrow shelf. I had that ¾" nock height.  One clue that I was catching the shelf and something was way wrong was that I could shoot the bow 3 under with the same nock height and shoot a better flying arrow.  I shouldn't need as high a nock split as  3 under.  There is something about 3 under for me that cause the arrow to clear the shelf a little better with a too stiff arrow.  Limb timing maybe gives better clearance for the over stiff condition.  On non BW bows my nock could be even higher because most recurve bows have wider shelves.

Getting a weaker arrow set-up is what solved my problem.   My draw is 29 1/4" give or take some due to bow weight and risers design.  I shoot 50-52@28 bows and can shoot up to 55.  So and my draw length my bow weight is close to 54-55 most times, but can go up to about 58.  I shoot a 5575 shaft 30 ¾" long with 100 gr. Insert and 145 point as a general arrow out of most bows if they are cut a little past center.  I can change point weight up or down one size to cover most bows and have real decent arrow flight.